Going pro: Ranking the current roster on NBA potential
Written by: painttouches
While the Marquette basketball team is just under four days from tipping off its 2011-2012 season, it's never too early to speculate about the distant future. Since coach Buzz Williams took over at Marquette, Wesley Matthews, Lazar Hayward and Jimmy ... Continue reading → (http://painttouches.com/2011/11/08/going-pro-ranking-the-current-roster-on-nba-potential/)
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http://painttouches.com/2011/11/08/going-pro-ranking-the-current-roster-on-nba-potential/
I think there are only 3 players on the roster(I am excluding Mayo, because I have not seen him play) that have a realistic chance to play pro ball. DJO, is small for a 2g, but that is somewhat offset because of his physical strength so I think he has a realistic chance. The next two players are based on what I saw at MU madness when they were playing against the pro players in attendence. It was striking how much quicker Hayward was than Crowder. Based on that I simply do not see Crowder having the quickness to play in the NBA. On the flip side Anderson looked to have the quickness and athleticism to play with Hayward, Butler and Matthews, so I think with hard work and avoiding a serious injury he has a good chance to play in the NBA. J. Wilson probably has the best chance to play in NBA. Blue without an improvement in his offensive game will not play in NBA. The others should plan on going to Europe.
I think the next pros from MU will go like this in the upcoming drafts
2012: DJO
2013: Jamil Wilson
2014: Jamailman
2015: Juan Anderson
Blue has a decent shot too
So you think all of these players will be drafted? Jamail Jones???
I think the only one I see drafted on this team is Jamil. Not sure about DJO...
2017 Deonte Burton
Quote from: The Sultan of South Wayne on November 08, 2011, 02:16:30 PM
So you think all of these players will be drafted? Jamail Jones???
I think the only one I see drafted on this team is Jamil. Not sure about DJO...
I think DJO is good enough to get drafted but it would be in the same range Butler was projected. A player who is a late 1st rounder to mid 2nd rounder.
I agree about Jones. I think he has the potential but at the moment he hasn't proven anything to be drafted.
I also think it is too early to judge Wilson. He seems to be getting a lot of hype because of his reputation and athleticism. He was decent at Oregon but not spectacular.
Quote from: reinko on November 08, 2011, 02:18:31 PM
2017 Deonte Burton
Is he really class of 2017? Good lord that makes me feel old...
Quote from: Jamailman on November 08, 2011, 01:59:46 PM
2013: Jamil Wilson
Wilson would be the first MU player since Wade to declare early for the draft, right?
Wilson has the most NBA potential on the roster right now because he has the size and athleticism. If he develops at the same curve of Jimmy Butler, he will be an easy 1st round selection.
DJO has EVERY tool a NBA roster would want except he is too short at 6'2" for SG. If he was just a little taller, he would be at the top of the list, but that is a big knock when looking to the next level.
Wasn't a fan of this article...don't see Wilson as being light years ahead of Butler at that age. Butler came in and owned the glass and played solid defense, we'll see if Wilson can do that, but I worry that he'll always be a bit soft.
Out of the group I would guess Vander and Anderson have the best chances of being drafted. Hoping DJO has a dynamite year, but he's going to need to be Ben Gordon-like to see his name called on draft day. I still worry about his ballhandling and decision making.
Quote from: avid1010 on November 08, 2011, 05:10:40 PM
Wasn't a fan of this article...don't see Wilson as being light years ahead of Butler at that age. Butler came in and owned the glass and played solid defense, we'll see if Wilson can do that, but I worry that he'll always be a bit soft.
I don't think it's a stretch to assume J Wilson will be much better as a sophomore than JFB was as a sophomore. Butler averaged 5.6 points and 3.9 rebounds in 20 minutes. Is it not safe to say that Wilson SHOULD be better than that?
Obviously the role each play on their particular team differs (seeing as JFB had Zar and the Amigos in front of him) but no poster on this board would have laid down money on Jimmy being drafted, while I do think some here would place that wager. Can Wilson develop as well as JFB? Now that is the real question. Talent wise, Wilson is ahead at this point in their careers.
Wilson is far more athletic than JFB and bigger upside. JFB made everything he could out of his potential and skill set. If Wilson has similar work ethic the sky is the limit. Will add I have seen him play twice recently and hope JFB rubs off on him. It really is up to him if he wants to play at next level.
No way DJO is ever lottery material. IMO (Brought up by website)
Quote from: Goose on November 08, 2011, 05:34:50 PM
Wilson is far more athletic than JFB and bigger upside. JFB made everything he could out of his potential and skill set. If Wilson has similar work ethic the sky is the limit. Will add I have seen him play twice recently and hope JFB rubs off on him. It really is up to him if he wants to play at next level.
There are a number of kids in Div. 1 that have the raw athleticism of Butler and Wilson...Wilson having more than Butler. There are few that make of that talent what Butler did. He's as tough and hard-nosed as they come, and I don't believe Wilson is anywhere near Butler in that respect. You mentioned the work ethic, and I think that's part of it, but there are some guys that just come with an attitude that makes them special. I get Wilson has more athleticism, but to talk about "upside" you also have to consider mental toughness, smarts, work ethic, leadership, understanding your role, etc. I don't believe he's anywhere near Butler in many of those areas. I hope I'm wrong, but Butler came in and new he needed to rebound, play solid defense, make his free-throws, and get a few put-backs each night. I think Wilson can score it this year, but I'm worried about the rebounding and defense. I certainly hope I'm wrong, but when we need a big rebound at the end of a game I don't predict it's Wilson ripping the ball out of the air ala JFB. To me, those were the plays that got him drafted. Plenty of guys can score it in the NBA.
I'd put Davante Gardner WAY up this list - my rankings for best chances of getting drafted:
1) Jamil Wilson
2) Davante Gardner
3) DJO
4) Jae Crowder
5) Vander Blue
6) Juan Anderson
Really hard to make judgments Mayo and Jamail Jones - though both have a lot of "tools." Otule? Slight maybe as a defensive presence in NBA? Junior? Just don't see it.
Quote from: Ners on November 08, 2011, 06:46:29 PM
I'd put Davante Gardner WAY up this list - my rankings for best chances of getting drafted:
1) Jamil Wilson
2) Davante Gardner
3) DJO
4) Jae Crowder
5) Vander Blue
6) Juan Anderson
Really hard to make judgments Mayo and Jamail Jones - though both have a lot of "tools." Otule? Slight maybe as a defensive presence in NBA? Junior? Just don't see it.
Love Davante but he'll have to get a double leg transplant to get drafted in the NBA. Not athletic enough by a long shot.
Let's remember that, as good as Wes Matthews was and as nice an NBA frame as he had, he wasn't drafted in the first round. And Jerel wasn't drafted at all despite being an All-American. In other words: It ain't easy.
The NBA has no trouble finding guards like DJO -- guys who are as good as or better at most everything. He's too short for a 2 and doesn't have proven skills to play 1. If he can really, really, really be lights-out from 3-point range -- like he was his first year at MU, but even better -- the league always needs guys who can stroke it. That's his ticket.
Wilson? I'm looking forward to seeing him because everybody talks so highly of him. Right now, a big "we'll see." The NBA is filled with super-athletic, super-skilled wing players.
Crowder? No. Gardner? Hard to imagine. Otule? Zero chance. Vander? Only if he improves 300 percent. The newcomers? Who knows?
A fun conversation-starter of an article. Thanks for linking it.
Quote from: Ners on November 08, 2011, 06:46:29 PM
I'd put Davante Gardner WAY up this list - my rankings for best chances of getting drafted:
1) Jamil Wilson
2) Davante Gardner
3) DJO
4) Jae Crowder
5) Vander Blue
6) Juan Anderson
Really hard to make judgments Mayo and Jamail Jones - though both have a lot of "tools." Otule? Slight maybe as a defensive presence in NBA? Junior? Just don't see it.
DG will end up as a good college post. But right now he is lightyears away from being drafted.
Quote from: ATL MU Warrior on November 08, 2011, 07:17:10 PM
Love Davante but he'll have to get a double leg transplant to get drafted in the NBA. Not athletic enough by a long shot.
Quote from: tower912 on November 08, 2011, 08:35:02 PM
DG will end up as a good college post. But right now he is lightyears away from being drafted.
Your points are well taken, however, sometimes it comes down to production over potential - and I see Davante leaving MU as an extremely productive, efficient player. He's come a LONG way already athletically/body wise - give him another 2.5 years in the program - and I think he will have the necessary athletic attributes to be an NBA player. You cannot teach his hands/feet/touch/feel for the game - he's quite blessed. If guys like Glen Davis can make the league - I see no reason why DG doesn't stand a good chance down the road. He is a HIGHLY skilled player - and his size/power is hard to defend...of course the other side of the equation..can he defend the other end defensively?
Some of this I agree with, some I find a bit crazy.
DJO - Drafted? Absolutely. First round? Maybe, this is a really deep draft. Lottery? Only if he has a season like Kemba Walker had last year (23.5 ppg, 5.4 rpg, 4.5 apg), and even then, it might be tough because of how deep next year's draft projects to be.
Jamil - He seems to have great size and athleticism for the three. Does he have the work ethic? That's probably the only question. Possible early-entrant in 2013 if he matches the hype.
Jae - If he's picked, he's a late second-rounder. Could work his way in through the NBADL.
Davante - Seriously? People are really touting him for the NBA? With his lack of conditioning and athleticism? I guess it's not impossible, but neither DeJuan Blair nor Glen Davis ever played less than 25 mpg in college. And that was with their bulk. Gardner is facing a catch-22: at 290, he has the bulk he needs but not the endurance, and at 260 he (maybe) has the endurance but not the bulk. And both Blair and Davis were second round picks despite far superior athleticism and being able to carry their weight much more effectively. Europe and the NBADL is littered with productive college players. He has a steep uphill climb.
Vander - Right now, no. Needs to drastically improve his shot. Athleticism and size are good enough.
Juan - I love what I've seen, albeit it hasn't been much. I think he can be an early entrant. He's a good enough shooter, has true point-forward vision, but really needs to bulk up. But it's hard to evaluate a true freshman.
Mayo - Name recognition can't hurt, but he has to show it on the court first. At best, he's around where we thought Vander might be (and wasn't) last year.
Jamail - He has the frame, he has the range, he has the athleticism, but so far he's shown he won't scrap inside. He has to completely retool his dedication and attitude and show tons more to even get a thought. And while he has some good ability, nothing he does would be considered a true "plus" skill.
Otule, DW, Junior, Jake - Doesn't seem likely.
Quote from: Ners on November 08, 2011, 09:26:51 PM
Your points are well taken, however, sometimes it comes down to production over potential - and I see Davante leaving MU as an extremely productive, efficient player. He's come a LONG way already athletically/body wise - give him another 2.5 years in the program - and I think he will have the necessary athletic attributes to be an NBA player. You cannot teach his hands/feet/touch/feel for the game - he's quite blessed. If guys like Glen Davis can make the league - I see no reason why DG doesn't stand a good chance down the road.
Not a chance. Davante is a below the rim power forward. He is not athletically explosive by any means. Davis was considered kind of a freak athlete at LSU, but in the NBA he becomes kind of a plodding player....and he is much quicker than DG.
DG is the reincarnation of Damon Key. Damon Key did not get drafted and he was bigger and scored more points at MU than DG will. The league now values athleticism even more than it did then. DG will probably, like Key, end up a beast at the college level.
I know people like to extrapolate numbers when talking about Gardner, well how about these?
He had 4 steals and 5 blocks last year. Those aren't averages, those are totals. If you triple his minutes, that's an average of under 0.4 spg and 0.5 bpg. We also hear about what a great passer in the post he is. He still only managed 10 assists in 296 minutes.
Yes he can score, yes he has soft hands, and yes he can get rebounds. But much of that is because he could bully his way around the paint. At the NBA level, he won't be bullying anyone. He's not close to being the athlete or having the quickness of Blair or Davis.
Not impossible, but he's got an Everest-like hill to climb.
Dejaun Blair has a similar build.
He averaged 16pts and 12reb as a soph. as was drafted in the second round (his knees were a partial concern).
Anyways, if DG can average 16pts and 10+ rebounds and play great defense as a senior, he has a shot...
... which is to say, he has no shot.
Nice college player. Love having him in the program. Not an NBA prospect.
Ners, if he gets drafted, feel free to bring up this thread and rub it in our collective faces.
Quote from: 2002MUalum on November 09, 2011, 08:57:13 AM
Dejaun Blair has a similar build.
He averaged 16pts and 12reb as a soph. as was drafted in the second round (his knees were a partial concern).
Anyways, if DG can average 16pts and 10+ rebounds and play great defense as a senior, he has a shot...
... which is to say, he has no shot.
Nice college player. Love having him in the program. Not an NBA prospect.
Ners, if he gets drafted, feel free to bring up this thread and rub it in our collective faces.
Despite having two knee injuries, Blair was a quick jumper and I suspect had very long arms. I saw him grab many rebounds that he had no business getting. To me Gardner is like Brain Wardle. A tough kid, who was a very good college player, but physically was not pro material.
Quote from: The Sultan of South Wayne on November 08, 2011, 02:16:30 PM
So you think all of these players will be drafted? Jamail Jones???
I think the only one I see drafted on this team is Jamil. Not sure about DJO...
Okay fine, I WANT it to happen more than I THINK it will happen. I do think he has the highest ceiling of anyone in that class though, and I think he'll be a star for us as a junior/senior.
I think there is a real great chance DJO will be drafted late 1st early 2nd.
I agree with the board in saying Jamil has a chance and Vander if he improves could play in the NBA. Most other players are solid European/NBADL guys.
I believe that Wes Matthews not being drafted has helped MU get players in the NBA . His success may have made some teams more likely to draft an MU player for fear of missing out on the "next Wes Matthews." I definately think thats what pushed Lazar into the first round. Maybe by this point, Wes is too removed from the program, but I think he really turned some NBA heads and shined a light on to Marquette.
"Wilson is already lightyears ahead of where Butler was at the same age."
When you use "lightyears ahead" in a statement, you better be ultra confident you are right. The fact is, that in all likelihood, Jimmy Butler was light years ahead at the same age. Jamil is one year younger than Jimmy. He would be the #1 pick in the draft if he performs light years better than Jimmy did last season.
I don't believe any of our guys will be playing big minutes in the Association in the future... and thats not because there won't be an association. I think most of our guys either are or are going to be solid to good college basketball players, but nobody has the complete package for the next level. Wes has made it because he fits the mold of the NBA 2 guard; our best players right now just don't have a position at the next level. But that being said, here is my take.
1) Wilson: He's the one guy who you look at and can think of an NBA talent. He's got the height and athleticism. He has three years so he definitely should be good enough by the time he is done at MU... the only problem is he'll be too old by then to be considered to have much of a ceiling left.
2) DJO: if a team needs a backup SG who can shoot, DJO may find a place in the league. It'd have to be a perfect fit tho; he can't guard an NBA 1 or 2 for more than 10 minutes a game. Anyone thinking DJO is a first rounder this year is crazy; the draft is going to be stacked.
3) Vander: obviously has a long way to go, but if he can somehow develop a shot, he has the body to be a smaller NBA 2 and the defensive capability to guard at the next level.
4) Anderson: he can handle the ball and has the height. If he can get considerably stronger he might just turn into a poor man's Tayshaun Prince.
5) Crowder: Too late for Crowder to make a real push. Should have some opportunities to play professionally though.
6) Otule: Way too far down on the Paint Touches list. None of these guys from this point forward have a real shot, so being 6'11 gives Chris the edge.
7) Cadougan: Every team needs a third string point. I think he'll probably get a try in the NBDL.
8) Mellow: He's a strong kid and can shoot the 3. Let's wait and see if he can break into MU's rotation first.
9) Gardner: He's big... but slow and can't jump. No amount of post moves will get over the 7 footers in the paint in the NBA.
10) Mayo: Hopefully he can be a starter by the time his Junior year rolls around.
11) Wilson: At least his brain isn't going to get bashed in playing football. I'm hopeful he can turn into a solid backup point for the next four years.
12) Thomas: Not Jimmer Fredette and white.
Quote from: DomJamesToTheBasket on November 10, 2011, 08:59:54 PM
"Wilson is already lightyears ahead of where Butler was at the same age."
When you use "lightyears ahead" in a statement, you better be ultra confident you are right. The fact is, that in all likelihood, Jimmy Butler was light years ahead at the same age. Jamil is one year younger than Jimmy. He would be the #1 pick in the draft if he performs light years better than Jimmy did last season.
The point of that post (my post) in Paint Touches, is that Wilson still has sophomore eligibility. Butler was awful the first half of his sophomore season, and the fact that multiple sources claimed Wilson was the best player in practice last season leads me to believe he IS light years ahead of Butler.
Much of this feature was speculating (it has to be...how can anyone project this stuff) on what COULD be. Wilson, with three years left, has a much better skill set than sophomore Butler and is more athletic. Who's to say he won't flourish under Buzz? I know I said same "age," but the fact that he has three years left puts him in a better position.
Quote from: bilsu on November 09, 2011, 09:22:23 AM
Despite having two knee injuries, Blair was a quick jumper and I suspect had very long arms. I saw him grab many rebounds that he had no business getting. To me Gardner is like Brain Wardle. A tough kid, who was a very good college player, but physically was not pro material.
DG probably is a quick jumper... it's just that he gets to the basket faster for the rebound-putback when he doesn't jump.
Quote from: Benny B on November 11, 2011, 09:08:09 AM
DG probably is a quick jumper... it's just that he gets to the basket faster for the rebound-putback when he doesn't jump.
Sometimes Ox jumps and lands so quickly it's almost as if he didn't even leave the ground!