Orangebloods.com will have an update in the War Room tonight about how the Big 12 is shaping up to be an 11-team league.
http://bit.ly/vih5EA
From Texas Insider Board by Chip Brown
Just talked to a key source in the Big 12 who says it does appear the league will invite both West Virginia and Louisville. There was strong sentiment for both within the Big 12.
If Missouri goes ahead and leaves, as everyone expects, that would put the Big 12 at 11.
We will have more in the War Room tonight.
http://mbd.scout.com/mb.aspx?s=159&f=4582&t=8161033&p=1
http://mbd.scout.com/mb.aspx?s=17&f=2759&t=8161029
UPDATE: New York Times' Pete Thamel reports WVU in, CBS says the league will stay at 10.
PeteThamelNYT Pete Thamel
Just confirmed @ McMurphyCBS report. Big 12 had 7 a.m. call. Source said Louisville was informed an hour ago that WVU is in.
http://brett-mcmurphy.blogs.cbssports.com/mcc/blogs/entry/29532522/32980106
http://j.mp/sKbMbj
http://j.mp/vPCXtp
I don't care about WVU, but I'd hate to lose Louisville. I really like being in a conference with them.
So what are the real chances that we add Memphis or Temple?
Quote from: macman320 on October 27, 2011, 11:01:00 PM
So what are the real chances that we add Memphis or Temple?
If both Louisville and WVU leave i hope the chances are 0. Unless its an invite for everything but Football (which still wouldn't be the best we could do). If both Louisville and WVU leave, that leaves us with Cinci, UConn, Rutgers, and USF. No matter who else you add, it will be a very hard sell to remain an AQ conference and any of the above four will still jump given the chance.
Quote from: Abode4life on October 28, 2011, 07:51:47 AM
If both Louisville and WVU leave i hope the chances are 0. Unless its an invite for everything but Football (which still wouldn't be the best we could do). If both Louisville and WVU leave, that leaves us with Cinci, UConn, Rutgers, and USF. No matter who else you add, it will be a very hard sell to remain an AQ conference and any of the above four will still jump given the chance.
It was reported earlier that if both of those schools leave, that the bball schools were going to force the conference to drop football. So that day of reckoning might soon be at hand.
Quote from: The Sultan of South Wayne on October 28, 2011, 07:54:39 AM
It was reported earlier that if both of those schools leave, that the bball schools were going to force the conference to drop football. So that day of reckoning might soon be at hand.
I sure hope you're right...
Quote from: Abode4life on October 28, 2011, 07:51:47 AM
If both Louisville and WVU leave i hope the chances are 0. Unless its an invite for everything but Football (which still wouldn't be the best we could do). If both Louisville and WVU leave, that leaves us with Cinci, UConn, Rutgers, and USF. No matter who else you add, it will be a very hard sell to remain an AQ conference and any of the above four will still jump given the chance.
The problem is the Big East football minds think the BCS auto-bid is kind of like a law in place, once it's in place it's really hard to take back, and that may be true. Well if the 8 remaining bball only schools can vote to drop football, and we keep Uconn, Cinnci, Rutgers, USF temporarily at least, there is nothing preventing the Big East to be an all-sports minus football league. Bringing in Memphis and Xavier would be the best option to bolster the legitimacy of the basketball side. Memphis is crazy enough about basketball that they wouldn't care about leaving their football program orphaned out by itself. Even if UConn and Cinncinnati would leave eventually, you would still have a top 3-4 basketball conference.
In a business you would just set up two companies and a shell, put the BCS bid in one of the companies and sell it off to the new mega conference. All the football teams could go to the mega conference forever or until they found a better breeding ground. Otherwise if there is some rule against that, having one BCS bid for 30+ teams seems like a good option for the BCS forefathers to prevent legal/political intervention.
Nevermind I guess - Big 12-2-1+1+1 just had 7 am call, reports out of CBS and NYT's Pete Thamel say WVU is accepted at the league will hold at 10 ( for now)
PeteThamelNYT Pete Thamel
Just confirmed @ McMurphyCBS report. Big 12 had 7 a.m. call. Source said Louisville was informed an hour ago that WVU is in.
PeteThamelNYT Pete Thamel
The Big 12 will stay at 10 teams. I could never buy them adding both and going to 11. Why slice the pie even more?
http://brett-mcmurphy.blogs.cbssports.com/mcc/blogs/entry/29532522/32980106
http://j.mp/sKbMbj
http://j.mp/vPCXtp
I'd hate to see them go but better Louisville stays from the basketball perspective.
What I find interesting is WVU is starting Big 12 competition starting the 2012-2013 school year. Isn't there a 23-month exit period?
Quote from: Warriors10 on October 28, 2011, 11:10:50 AM
What I find interesting is WVU is starting Big 12 competition starting the 2012-2013 school year. Isn't there a 23-month exit period?
I saw something floating about the interwebs that they will pay a $21 Million exit fee. That also might open the door for Pitt and Cuse to leave early too.
Well, I think if the BE wants to add teams, that they should negotiate a drop in the 27 month exit period. Everyone should just move on by that point...
The B12 and WVU announced that their first season as a member will be next year (the official move will be June 30th).
Quote from: Chili on October 28, 2011, 11:26:26 AM
I saw something floating about the interwebs that they will pay a $21 Million exit fee. That also might open the door for Pitt and Cuse to leave early too.
Wow....that is a lot of scratch for the taxpayers of West Virginia to pay to exit. So, that would be $68mm to the remaining BE schools to split amongst themselves if these three's and TCU's portions are divvied up, plus their forfeited media rights. That is over two years+ share of normal ESPN$$ for Marquette.
Better to hold 'em.
Quote from: Dr. Blackheart on October 28, 2011, 02:41:56 PM
Wow....that is a lot of scratch for the taxpayers of West Virginia to pay to exit. So, that would be $68mm to the remaining BE schools to split amongst themselves if these three's and TCU's portions are divvied up, plus their forfeited media rights. That is over two years+ share of normal ESPN$$ for Marquette.
Better to hold 'em.
It's not taxpayer money. The AD said they had up to $20M secured from boosters that were excited about the move. Besides, its a negotiation ploy. The BE has $5M stated in the contract and said they would up it towards $20M if a school wanting to break away early. Im guessing the settlement falls somewhere in between.
I hate to say it, but Rick Pitino should be running the Big East.
http://espn.go.com/college-sports/story/_/id/7159905/west-virginia-mountaineers-formally-invited-join-big-12
Quote from: muhs03 on October 28, 2011, 02:56:29 PM
It's not taxpayer money. The AD said they had up to $20M secured from boosters that were excited about the move. Besides, its a negotiation ploy. The BE has $5M stated in the contract and said they would up it towards $20M if a school wanting to break away early. Im guessing the settlement falls somewhere in between.
Also saw that their Athletics Department does get state funded subsidies per their bi-laws to cover shortfalls like having their Olympics sports travel thousands of extra miles...so $20mm in private booster fees that won't go toward their AD but to mostly small, private schools's budgets? I am sure some politico will jump on this, but whatever.
Why would WVU state they have those $20mm in private funds--before negotiations begin--along with announcing their new start date a year from now? Seems like they already lost their leverage to me as that now becomes the starting point as they put themselves under the deadline gun?...although I see they advanced $2.5mm already to the Big East, so I guess they are trying to exit gracefully, which is smart. But what do I know, other than from the outside, these don't appear to be the best business deals (although they may be the best football deals).
All in all, whatever the outcome, this is actually a windfall for the remaining schools (especially basketball) in the short-term.
Quote from: Dr. Blackheart on October 28, 2011, 03:56:03 PM
Also saw that their Athletics Department does get state funded subsidies per their bi-laws to cover shortfalls like having their Olympics sports travel thousands of extra miles...so $20mm in private booster fees that won't go toward their AD but to mostly small, private schools's budgets? I am sure some politico will jump on this, but whatever.
How much does travel actually cost an athletic department? If WVU's cut of the B12 tv money is at least $15M, isnt that enough to cover everything? They will receive far more revenue than they ever have and Im guessing its more than enough to take care of traveling expenses for their non-revenue generating sports.
Quote from: TrueBlueAndGold on October 28, 2011, 03:50:57 PM
I hate to say it, but Rick Pitino should be running the Big East.
http://espn.go.com/college-sports/story/_/id/7159905/west-virginia-mountaineers-formally-invited-join-big-12
+1... I know Marinwhatever is his boy, but a respected basketball mind would help moving forward, especially in the promotion area for a new TV contract soon to be negotiated.
Rick Pitino has been very vocal about his preference for the Big East.
That ESPN article references the fact that the Big East has eight non-football members. Then it says that most of them are private schools with strong basketball programs, naming Georgetown, St. John's and DePaul(!) - no mention of MU - what's with that?
Quote from: muhs03 on October 28, 2011, 05:01:48 PM
How much does travel actually cost an athletic department? If WVU's cut of the B12 tv money is at least $15M, isnt that enough to cover everything? They will receive far more revenue than they ever have and Im guessing its more than enough to take care of traveling expenses for their non-revenue generating sports.
I am sure the Rowing team will enjoy their air charter with all their boats and equipment to the South Skunk River in Ames...and the Rifle team won't have any issues bringing their equipment on the airplane and through security on their roadtrips to Waco instead of busing it to nearby venues. So, let's say it is an extra $1mm or $2mm in travel...that is doable with the extra TV money.
However, is there enough to incur this extra travel expense AND the $7mm in booster money per year they are paying other schools--and perhaps some deficits to make it pay off over the next three-five years? I guess they get football stability (hard to call the B12 conference stable when a bunch of schools just bolted over the past two years), but that is a lot of TV revenue they need to make up just to make this deal better than the status quo. They would be better off financially by not moving near-term...and marginally in a more secure conference...a very long way from their fanbase. Mizzo makes no sense for the SEC, but WVU does...but the schools think differently so they must know what they are doing. ?-(
Quote from: dw3dw3dw3 on October 28, 2011, 05:15:33 PM
+1... I know Marinwhatever is his boy, but a respected basketball mind would help moving forward, especially in the promotion area for a new TV contract soon to be negotiated.
LOL....WTF is Rick Pitino going to do in a television contract negotiation???
Quote from: Dr. Blackheart on October 28, 2011, 07:48:02 PM
I am sure the Rowing team will enjoy their air charter with all their boats and equipment to the South Skunk River in Ames...and the Rifle team won't have any issues bringing their equipment on the airplane and through security on their roadtrips to Waco instead of busing it to nearby venues. So, let's say it is an extra $1mm or $2mm in travel...that is doable with the extra TV money.
However, is there enough to incur this extra travel expense AND the $7mm in booster money per year they are paying other schools--and perhaps some deficits to make it pay off over the next three-five years? I guess they get football stability (hard to call the B12 conference stable when a bunch of schools just bolted over the past two years), but that is a lot of TV revenue they need to make up just to make this deal better than the status quo. They would be better off financially by not moving near-term...and marginally in a more secure conference...a very long way from their fanbase. Mizzo makes no sense for the SEC, but WVU does...but the schools think differently so they must know what they are doing. ?-(
The B12 doesnt sponsor rifling. The B12 does, however, sponsor womens rowing which WVU participates in. I think the fact that the university allowed alcohol sales for football games for the first time ever will offset the rowing team's increased expenses (an estimated $2M in revenue). You make it seem like WVU is stuck with all of their sports and cant cut a womens team and add a different womens sport that might be less expensive in the B12. My god, that extra 10-12M that their athletic department will receive will all be sucked up in added travel expenses!! LOL.
Plus, the worst B12 teams are still more appealing to WVU fans than the worst BE teams in football. The top B12 teams are light years better than the best BE teams. I'd expect more sell-outs and increased ticket prices.
Quote from: muhs03 on October 29, 2011, 03:24:59 PM
The B12 doesnt sponsor rifling. The B12 does, however, sponsor womens rowing which WVU participates in. I think the fact that the university allowed alcohol sales for football games for the first time ever will offset the rowing team's increased expenses (an estimated $2M in revenue). You make it seem like WVU is stuck with all of their sports and cant cut a womens team and add a different womens sport that might be less expensive in the B12. My god, that extra 10-12M that their athletic department will receive will all be sucked up in added travel expenses!! LOL.
Plus, the worst B12 teams are still more appealing to WVU fans than the worst BE teams in football. The top B12 teams are light years better than the best BE teams. I'd expect more sell-outs and increased ticket prices.
Did you miss the part where I said that increased travel fees only was doable with the extra B12 revenue? And did you ignore my point about the $68mm in exit fees is the big anchor? And that the two of them combined (plus according to you the extra cost of the scholarships for dropping rifling) together doens't make this worthwhile for 3-5 years? If these are the details, this is just a bad business deal. (btw no B12 school allows beer sales, but I am sure Luck already got a waiver from all these red state schools like Baylor and TCU).
Back to my point that you seem the glaze over: If am these basketball only schools, keep paying me these exit fees in cash
today...the sooner the better.
Quote from: Dr. Blackheart on October 29, 2011, 04:22:56 PM
Did you miss the part where I said that increased travel fees only was doable with the extra B12 revenue? And did you ignore my point about the $68mm in exit fees is the big anchor? And that the two of them combined (plus according to you the extra cost of the scholarships for dropping rifling) together doens't make this worthwhile for 3-5 years? If these are the details, this is just a bad business deal. (btw no B12 school allows beer sales, but I am sure Luck already got a waiver from all these red state schools like Baylor and TCU).
Back to my point that you seem the glaze over: If am these basketball only schools, keep paying me these exit fees in cash today...the sooner the better.
So if a business transaction doesnt generate a profit in the first 3-5 years, its a bad deal? Dont most small businesses lose money for several years before gaining traction and generating profits? According to you, those first couple years simply arent worth it....so why bother, right? If a merger or acquisition doesnt make sense in the near-term then why bother? I guess we should ignore opportunity costs. And ignore that the B12 is going to get a new deal for an amount we dont know.
And sure, receiving exit fees now are better than receiving them tomorrow. That's obvious. If the conference receives the exit fees in 27 months, it's only going to be $5M per school. Thats a bad deal for the BE. I would think exit fees should be the present value of [lost] future cash flows from media rights deals. The BE deal expires next year. What are the damages? We dont know because the conference wasnt able to receive competitive bids yet with all of the current teams committed to the future (we only know the new deal would have been more than what ESPN recently offered). We'll see how that last offer stacks up against ESPN's new offer coming next fall.
Quote from: muhs03 on October 29, 2011, 05:09:52 PM
So if a business transaction doesnt generate a profit in the first 3-5 years, its a bad deal? Dont most small businesses lose money for several years before gaining traction and generating profits? According to you, those first couple years simply arent worth it....so why bother, right? If a merger or acquisition doesnt make sense in the near-term then why bother? I guess we should ignore opportunity costs. And ignore that the B12 is going to get a new deal for an amount we dont know.
A for-profit business can write off and amortize those start-up costs for capital expenditures.