I think i may have gone crazy. I think I'm going to be disappointed with anything less than a four seed. I'm expecting at 3.
We have two seniors, a 2 and a 4, who we expect to be all conference.
We have two big men who played well last year. We are going to have a season from the 5 spot like we haven't seen in years.
We have a top 100 recruit at point who played his first real season after injury and was showing promise by the end of the year. I think he's an above avg starter in the conference but this is the position that I'm most worried about.
We have a top 50 recruit who was a defensive stopper with real NBA potential. He had a shaky shooting season as a freshman, but could have a huge breakout year.
We have a top 100, redshirt jr transfer who played 12 mpg as a freshman at a major program. He's coming off a year practicing with the team. By all accounts he's a bad ass.
That's a top 7 that I'm happy to go to war with.
Then we have a talented group of players who will fight for some minutes. If we get solid play out of JR the sky is the limit.
I think a lot depends on how the new comers (including JWilson) integrate into the team and how much of an impact they can have. Its a long season and injuries happen all the times, so unless we can have a little bit of depth, i will hold my judgment/disappointment.
Having said that, if JWilson and others turn out to be as good as hoped, i would definitely want a four seed or better.
I'll drink this Kool Aid. Believe this is MU's most talented team since 2003. Hopefully Buzz and staff can put all the pieces together, and that the team gel and form a great chemistry.
Very excited about this season!
We can't assume all is going to go great. What about injuries? Team chemistry is not a given. The Beast has five teams at least that are very good and deep. Its going to take awhile for the bench players to have clearly defined roles. I'm super optimistic about this team and can't wait to see them on the court. I love the makeup of this roster and I think all eleven players will get minutes.
I'm buying all of it but for the break out season by Vander. I'd love to see it, but it looked to me that the shot still has a long way to go at MU Madness. I hope he proves me wrong. That said, he is certainly capable of making a significant contribution with the other aspects of his game.
Quote from: Ners on October 25, 2011, 12:30:50 PM
I'll drink this Kool Aid. Believe this is MU's most talented team since 2003. Hopefully Buzz and staff can put all the pieces together, and that the team gel and form a great chemistry.
Very excited about this season!
More talented than 2008-2009? Really not worth arguing over, but just disagree.
Somebody tell me why I should believe Crowder can stay out of foul trouble. We couldn't even start him at times last year. He needs to be on the court.
I think this team is deeper than a lot of teams we've had, including the '08-'09 bunch, and probably the '03 team, too. I think if Jamil Wilson brings it, we get good PG play from Cadougan, and we get good minutes from Gardner, Blue, and Jamail Jones either off the bench or starting, the KoolAid will be quite tasty.
OH YEAH!
(http://cdn1.hark.com/images/000/003/249/3249/original.jpg)
Quote from: The Lens on October 25, 2011, 01:15:10 PM
Somebody tell me why I should believe Crowder can stay out of foul trouble. We couldn't even start him at times last year. He needs to be on the court.
Experience?
Coaching?
Development?
Not guarding the other team's best post player?
I think our 6th and beyond guys are much better than 08-09, but I think the top 4 were much better in 08-09. I think the injury to James and the fact we only won one NCAA game makes people forget just how good that team was. We had a favorable schedule before James got hurt, but I still think we finish much better with James and have a legit shot at the Elite 8 or Final Four.
I love DJO but I don't know if we have enough firepower to be a top 10 or top 15 team. If Vander gets his jump shot figured out, then I have a ton more confidence in this team, but after DJO and Crowder, I don't know where we will get a lot of our scoring. I hope Jamil Wilson is as good as advertised, if he hits the ground running then I think we can live up to the hype, but he is a sophomore who hasn't played in a year. His freshman year was also up and down (granted that's true for a lot of freshman).
Quote from: reinko on October 25, 2011, 01:08:33 PM
More talented than 2008-2009? Really not worth arguing over, but just disagree.
Not to argue, but top to bottom, this years team is more talented than 2008-2009. I would say:
DJO and McNeal are the equivalent
Crowder will be better than Hayward was as a junior
Matthews better than Jamil Wilson
Junior/Dominic - the disparity might not be as great as we'd think. James really was lost offensively his last 3 years at MU...and I believe Junior sees the floor better than James and is as capable offensively. James gets the nod on the defensive end without question.
Gardner/Otule vs Burke: Hands down Otule/Gardner better
Vander, Todd Mayo, Jamail Jones, Juan Anderson, Derrick Wilson - to me are better than junior year Cooby, Acker, and sophomores Butler and Fulce....did that team even have any other players?
I am bullish on this team. I'd be happy with anything above a 6 seed.
My concern is Jamil Wilson. I know he is good, but he is getting a LOT of hype. If he can live up to expectations that people are putting on him, we have a really good team. If he isn't as good as advertised, we will still be good... just not great.
Quote from: Ners on October 25, 2011, 02:23:42 PM
Not to argue, but top to bottom, this years team is more talented than 2008-2009. I would say:
DJO and McNeal are the equivalent
Crowder will be better than Hayward was as a junior
Matthews better than Jamil Wilson
Junior/Dominic - the disparity might not be as great as we'd think. James really was lost offensively his last 3 years at MU...and I believe Junior sees the floor better than James and is as capable offensively. James gets the nod on the defensive end without question.
Gardner/Otule vs Burke: Hands down Otule/Gardner better
Vander, Todd Mayo, Jamail Jones, Juan Anderson, Derrick Wilson - to me are better than junior year Cooby, Acker, and sophomores Butler and Fulce....did that team even have any other players?
Matthews and DJ were 3 year starters going into 2008. Wes started for the 2nd year guys in the NBA All Star game last year and James was a crazy athlete and maybe the best on ball defender in MU history. This will be Jamil and Junior's first year starting at the college level. I'm optimistic, but until proven otherwise they're not on the same plane as Wesley and Dom.
I'd say Jerel/DJO and Lazar/Crowder are a push.
Bench and center are stronger this year.
How will it shake out? Depending on Jamil and Junior, somewhere between good and really,really good.
Quote from: reinko on October 25, 2011, 01:08:33 PMMore talented than 2008-2009? Really not worth arguing over, but just disagree.
Top to bottom, I'd agree. I think the starting lineups are very close, with Otule/Burke being a big edge for this year and DJ/Junior being an edge for 2008-09. Like Lennys, I'd put DJO/Jerel and Lazar/Crowder about even. Really not sure on Wes/Jamil, need to see Wilson on the court first.
However, when you get to the bench, this year we are far more talented. JFB and Acker were the only guys we pretty much had on the bench, and while Butler showed promise, neither were particularly high-impact guys that year. And there was no one, Hazel and Cubillan had some minutes, but also had a lot of DNPs once Big East play started. Our second five of Derrick Wilson, Mayo, Blue, Jones/JA, and Gardner would win some games, at least in the non-conference. Much, much, I can't even say how much better than the bench in 2008-09.
Starting five is close, but if you're going top to bottom, this team is well ahead of the 2008-09 team.
Quote from: Ners on October 25, 2011, 02:23:42 PM
Junior/Dominic - the disparity might not be as great as we'd think. James really was lost offensively his last 3 years at MU...and I believe Junior sees the floor better than James and is as capable offensively. James gets the nod on the defensive end without question.
Remember that DJ was an absolutely DOMINANT defensive player that year. I don't think Junior is at that level yet.
Quote from: lab_warrior on October 25, 2011, 03:47:29 PM
Remember that DJ was an absolutely DOMINANT defensive player that year. I don't think Junior is at that level yet.
Bears repeating. He completely shut down his man pretty much every game. Amazing.
Quote from: lab_warrior on October 25, 2011, 03:47:29 PM
Remember that DJ was an absolutely DOMINANT defensive player that year. I don't think Junior is at that level yet.
Agree, and I don't think Junior will ever get to the level DJ was as a defender. However, in my view, James was just average with regard to being a point guard offensively - both from a scoring and passing perspective. Junior is DEFINITELY a better passer/floor general than James - though DJ did make strides in this area as a senior.
On paper I expect more out of this team than last year. We should beat Becky this year, and finish top 5 in BE.
That said, team chemistry is an unknown at this point, and team leadership is somewhat unknown. If those things come together, we are golden.
I'm drinking the Kool Aid. Too many athletes and depth not to take deep run.
Quote from: Ners on October 25, 2011, 04:23:31 PM
Agree, and I don't think Junior will ever get to the level DJ was as a defender. However, in my view, James was just average with regard to being a point guard offensively - both from a scoring and passing perspective. Junior is DEFINITELY a better passer/floor general than James - though DJ did make strides in this area as a senior.
Ners your memory does not serve u very well. James as a junior was a infinitely better ball handler, floor general, and passer than Junior is right now. Not a knock on Junior but he really does not handle the ball that well...and all great PG's have the ability to draw help which opens the dish. DJ's Assist numbers were held down becuase he had no one with any size, we were jump shooting team. No big that could finish assist worthy passes at an almost 100% rate.
I think the people that do not recall how good James was are those focused on his streaky shooting. Most of that came from when Tommy Naismith tried to convert DJ from a PG to playing off the ball and being a scorer/shooter. In other words take him from his strength and make him do what he was not good at.
DJ was best with the ball in his hands becuase of his uber-athleticism. He was not a shooter...he was a Barry Sanders of basketball. he also could use that same strength and athleticism on the defensive end.
Hope Junior has a great year and if he can become a better floor general than DJ was we will be really good.
Quote from: StillAWarrior on October 25, 2011, 04:10:18 PM
Bears repeating. He completely shut down his man pretty much every game. Amazing.
I was at the MU-Cincinnati game that year, a complete clinic by DJ. He reduced BE leading scorer Deonta Vaughn into a sputtering, NBA-3 chucking/bricking, turnover-machine, HOT MESS. Completely dismantled the guy.
I have seen a lot of optimism on the board here and boy is it great to see! I too am very excited about this year, but as some have noted injuries are always a wild card, team cohesion a coin flip, and raw talent difficult to refine. That all being said, it will definitely be a fun year win or lose, but personally I just want to see some good basketball, our players acting like gentleman on and off the court (remember our student athletes are for better or worse the most recognizable faces of the university), and hopefully being .500 in the BE. The rest is gravy.