The tanned one may be looking for a job soon. As dependent on a PG as his offense is, not good news for the crimson and cream.
Freshman big Cody Zeller better be superman with as much as they will be relying on him this year.
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2011/basketball/ncaa/10/10/Indiana.Maurice.Cheek.ap/index.html?sct=cb_t2_a4
Quote from: texaswarrior74 on October 10, 2011, 08:32:41 PM
The tanned one may be looking for a job soon. As dependent on a PG as his offense is, not good news for the crimson and cream.
Freshman big Cody Zeller better be superman with as much as they will be relying on him this year.
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2011/basketball/ncaa/10/10/Indiana.Maurice.Cheek.ap/index.html?sct=cb_t2_a4
Creek isn't a point guard. Hulls is IU's point.
No worries. Too Tan Tommy will try to spin it so the faithful will believe the injury bug is the only thing that keeps them from a national championship.
Ouch. Sorry for the kid. He has had a tough college career.
Dude was probably running away from a tacking dummy, err...I mean....
Quote from: HoopsMalone on October 10, 2011, 11:44:41 PM
Ouch. Sorry for the kid. He has had a tough college career.
I feel the same. Was a former MU recruit target from Oxon Hill, Md who I believe ruptured his patella previously. Those are two tough injuries.
Quote from: nyg on October 11, 2011, 06:31:42 AM
I feel the same. Was a former MU recruit target from Oxon Hill, Md who I believe ruptured his patella previously. Those are two tough injuries.
I believe that he may even have been a MU commit--at the least he was a strong MU lean--then Crean left and took Creek along with him. Not an unusual occurrence, but one that added to the rapid disaffection with Crean by much of the MU fan base.
Quote from: HoopsMalone on October 10, 2011, 11:44:41 PM
Ouch. Sorry for the kid. He has had a tough college career.
I agree, the poor kid has had to put up with multiple injuries so far in his college career. Well, as Crean said, good thing there's a first class health facility.. in Indianapolis.
Quote from: LittleMurs on October 11, 2011, 07:36:35 AM
I believe that he may even have been a MU commit--at the least he was a strong MU lean--then Crean left and took Creek along with him. Not an unusual occurrence, but one that added to the rapid disaffection with Crean by much of the MU fan base.
Creek may have been a lean, but with kids choosing schools mainly because of the coach, there shouldn't have been any resentment that he ended up at Indiana. Same thing with Nick Williams because Buzz never recruited Nick. Tyshawn Taylor was a different story.
Quote from: 4everwarriors on October 10, 2011, 08:55:16 PM
No worries. Too Tan Tommy will try to spin it so the faithful will believe the injury bug is the only thing that keeps them from a national championship.
Certainly worked with the fanbase here.
Am I the only one that takes great pleasure in this?
Actually, you have to feel really bad for a kid like Creek who started his Freshman year absolutely blazing. I beleive he had 30+ against Kentucky on CBS before breaking a patella. Then had the same injury last year on the other leg and now this. No one envisions anything like happening to a kid even once. He has now had 3 Junior Cadougan type injuries!!
What I do take tremendous pleasure in is the fact that it will greatly weaken Tan Tommy's already weak team. USA Today just picked them to come in 11th in the Big 10, and that was before the Creek injury.
Another interesting aspect, that I will mention because we no longer have the World's greatest IU fan on board (chico) to tell everyone how great things are going in Bloomington, is the scholarship situation.
Crean over the Summer jettisoned or "Creaned" Bobby Capobianco and went right on signing players. He currently has 14 players committed for next year. That is one over the limit and has a Top 20 2012 2G from Indy coming to mid night madness. That would put him at 15 and that does not even incude 4th year Junior Matt Roth who missed his Sophomore year with a knee injury and will most likely start this season. Will he even have a scholarship next year? Will also be in the same situation the year after When Creek returns for his potential redshirt year...someone will need to be creaned to make room.
What other players will be "creaned" to make room for the new comers? Similar to what he created at MU Crean will again be "creaning" older more mature and experienced players for on paper younger more talented ones. Once again creating the ever present younf dumb mistakes on the court, lack of leadership, and maybe most importantly the "we are young excuse".
Seems to be more of the same down in Bloomington. So glad that tired...and slimy...act is gone.
This is a fuckin' shame. Creek has been snake-bitten since he stepped into Bloomington's limits. Always liked his game out of Connecticut. Really thought he'd be an impact guy if MU could have landed him and was disappointed we failed in that regard.
Crean and his program had some momentum building this summer but with Creek again down for the count, it seems Crean will never have a full deck in his rebuilding plan. Hard to judge a coach without their full deck.
Quote from: LittleMurs on October 11, 2011, 07:36:35 AM
I believe that he may even have been a MU commit--at the least he was a strong MU lean--then Crean left and took Creek along with him. Not an unusual occurrence, but one that added to the rapid disaffection with Crean by much of the MU fan base.
The list of reasons to be "disaffected" with Tom Crean was long. Continuing to recruit an uncommitted high school junior (Maurice Creek) after Crean changed jobs didn't make that list with any MU fans I know.
Quote from: Lennys Tap on October 11, 2011, 09:39:51 AM
The list of reasons to be "disaffected" with Tom Crean was long. Continuing to recruit an uncommitted high school junior (Maurice Creek) after Crean changed jobs didn't make that list with any MU fans I know.
Correct Tom Crean who is about as big a loser as they come as a person, had many reasons not to be liked. Continuing to recruit an uncommitted junior in HS was not one of them. Calling Eric Williams a committed Senior, tho was.
well, it was either this or a bad case of the flu. usually after his team gets smoked by 30 pts.
My heart bleeds "It's Indiana, it's Indiana" crimson for poor Tom Crean.
Quote from: Canadian Dimes on October 11, 2011, 09:44:48 AM
Calling Eric Williams a committed Senior, tho was.
I think that was Nick Williams, who transferred from IU after his freshman year.
Quote from: The Golden Avalanche on October 11, 2011, 09:24:34 AM
Crean and his program had some momentum building this summer but with Creek again down for the count, it seems Crean will never have a full deck in his rebuilding plan. Hard to judge a coach without their full deck.
Expecting anything from Creek going into this year would have been foolish. He was having a horrible year last year before his injury. If in year 4 at a top 6 program Tom Crean can't overcome an injury to a guy who became permanently damaged goods almost 2 years ago that's on him. All the enabling and excuses in the world from his syncophants won't change that.
Quote from: lurch91 on October 11, 2011, 10:07:26 AM
I think that was Nick Williams, who transferred from IU after his freshman year.
He got Nick. He went after Erik but failed.
Quote from: Lennys Tap on October 11, 2011, 10:12:27 AM
He got Nick. He went after Erik but failed.
When Buzz was hired, did he want Nick Williams since he never had a hand in recruiting him?
Quote from: Canadian Dimes on October 11, 2011, 09:19:13 AM
So glad that tired...and slimy...act is gone.
Tom Crean is a lot of things, but he is by no means "gone".
Quote from: The Golden Avalanche on October 11, 2011, 09:24:34 AM
This is a frackin' shame. Creek has been snake-bitten since he stepped into Bloomington's limits. Always liked his game out of Connecticut. Really thought he'd be an impact guy if MU could have landed him and was disappointed we failed in that regard.
Crean and his program had some momentum building this summer but with Creek again down for the count, it seems Crean will never have a full deck in his rebuilding plan. Hard to judge a coach without their full deck.
Wow - Would be nice if you showed the same sensitivity and compassion for Buzz at MU. The double standard is comical. What is your association with Crean, if you don't mind sharing? Why all the love there, and skpeticism/criticism of OUR CURRENT HEAD COACH?? What's the deal?
Quote from: TedBaxter on October 11, 2011, 10:15:05 AM
When Buzz was hired, did he want Nick Williams since he never had a hand in recruiting him?
Don't think so. He was released almost immediately from his LOI. TC and the assistants that followed him to IU recruited Nick as the next DWade. He was going wherever Crean landed.
Quote from: lurch91 on October 11, 2011, 10:07:26 AM
I think that was Nick Williams, who transferred from IU after his freshman year.
Eric williams was a committed senior to be and verified that Crean was calling him trying to get him to IU. Akin to Buzz leaving and calling Steve Taylor trying to get him to follow him.
No defense on that loser move.
Quote from: Lennys Tap on October 11, 2011, 10:33:24 AM
Don't think so. He was released almost immediately from his LOI. TC and the assistants that followed him to IU recruited Nick as the next DWade. He was going wherever Crean landed.
ARe you sure Nick williams was going to be the next Dwade? i thought that was Mo Creek? or was it the next 2g he signed?
Funny I watched the video clip and he compared Mo Creek to .....ah you guessed it Dwade.
Quote from: Lennys Tap on October 11, 2011, 10:08:04 AM
Expecting anything from Creek going into this year would have been foolish. He was having a horrible year last year before his injury. If in year 4 at a top 6 program Tom Crean can't overcome an injury to a guy who became permanently damaged goods almost 2 years ago that's on him. All the enabling and excuses in the world from his syncophants won't change that.
He can always start blaming his predecessor.
It's Bush's fault.
Like a breath of fresh air - getting back to Crean bashing.
With all the conference realignment talk lately I almost miss this topic. . .
Nah, nevermind. So who will be the next team to jump from the Big East?
Did not know Cream called Erik, just assumed Nick and Erik got switched.
yes he went hard after every committed MU player and every one he was recruiting. Guys like Creek and Capobianco I have no problem with, they were uncommitted Juniors.
Complete Jackass move and par for the course move for Tom Crean to contact verbally committed yet unsigned Seniors.
Kevin Oneill whom not many people who call a saint at least had enough class, to tell all signed and unsigned MU commits to still attend MU and if they decided they wanted out of their commitments that would be honored but he would not recruit or take them at Tennessee.
Two completely different approaches to the same situation. One honorable and classy the other reeks of a complete jackass that is getting a whole $hitload of Karma at IU. My sincere hope is in 2 years he is unemployed. And in 3 years coaching in the Sunbelt.
Quote from: Canadian Dimes on October 11, 2011, 10:37:49 AM
Eric williams was a committed senior to be and verified that Crean was calling him trying to get him to IU. Akin to Buzz leaving and calling Steve Taylor trying to get him to follow him.
No defense on that loser move.
Actually, Erik was still a Junior. Not to diminish the point, as I agree, since Buzz was the one who brought him in. But he was not a Senior. If he was, he would have been under a LOI.
http://www.jsonline.com/blogs/sports/31869224.html (http://www.jsonline.com/blogs/sports/31869224.html)
Quote from: Canadian Dimes on October 11, 2011, 12:48:58 PM
yes he went hard after every committed MU player and every one he was recruiting. Guys like Creek and Capobianco I have no problem with, they were uncommitted Juniors.
Complete Jackass move and par for the course move for Tom Crean to contact verbally committed yet unsigned Seniors.
Kevin Oneill whom not many people who call a saint at least had enough class, to tell all signed and unsigned MU commits to still attend MU and if they decided they wanted out of their commitments that would be honored but he would not recruit or take them at Tennessee.
Two completely different approaches to the same situation. One honorable and classy the other reeks of a complete jackass that is getting a whole $hitload of Karma at IU. My sincere hope is in 2 years he is unemployed. And in 3 years coaching in the Sunbelt.
Couldn't it be argued that leaving a kid high and dry, and refusing to coach him after having a relationship with him for 2-3+ years is equally dishonorable? In these no-win situations, I'm not sure I'm convinced that the coach owes his former employer more than the recruit.
Quote from: Ners on October 11, 2011, 10:27:48 AM
Wow - Would be nice if you showed the same sensitivity and compassion for Buzz at MU. The double standard is comical. What is your association with Crean, if you don't mind sharing? Why all the love there, and skpeticism/criticism of OUR CURRENT HEAD COACH?? What's the deal?
miss Chicos much?
I feel bad for the kid. Nobody deserves this much bad luck. 3.5 years people. I've said it before and I will say it again, it is time to let it go. Crean moved on. The MU basketball program continues. Continuing this obsession is not a sign of good mental health and frankly is not a good way to represent MU.
Quote from: MUMac on October 11, 2011, 01:43:07 PM
Actually, Erik was still a Junior. Not to diminish the point, as I agree, since Buzz was the one who brought him in. But he was not a Senior. If he was, he would have been under a LOI.
http://www.jsonline.com/blogs/sports/31869224.html (http://www.jsonline.com/blogs/sports/31869224.html)
You are correct I was thinking school was out when the move was made... but yes it was April so he still would have been a junior.
Nonetheless, the comparison I gave was to Steve Taylor if Buzz left. Steve Taylor is a committed Senior but is unsigned. That was the scenario I was comparing to. Committed....you do not go after and call committed players to another program...especially if that other program is the one that u just left and the one that footed the bill in recruiting that player.
Quote from: Ruby on October 11, 2011, 11:33:37 AM
Like a breath of fresh air - getting back to Crean bashing.
With all the conference realignment talk lately I almost miss this topic. . .
Nah, nevermind. So who will be the next team to jump from the Big East?
We don't know because they haven't become a Big East member yet.
If you don't understand the above, think about TCU, and you'll get it.
Quote from: tower912 on October 11, 2011, 01:57:02 PM
I feel bad for the kid. Nobody deserves this much bad luck. 3.5 years people. I've said it before and I will say it again, it is time to let it go. Crean moved on. The MU basketball program continues. Continuing this obsession is not a sign of good mental health and frankly is not a good way to represent MU.
Thanks for the opinion...
Actually it should make you feel good...since you are soooo concerned with everyone's mental health that Crean has not really been a topic of converstion at all on the Boards. Is it really that troubling to you that a player and a coach that were both associated with the program were in the news and a few threads were started over it?
Should all threads receive the Tower912 good mental health checkup before proceeding? Please. Sorry if Crean being in the news causes people to lament on what a douchebag the guys was and still is.
you are prolly one of the guys that thinks Crean made Marquette, right? Sorry Marquette made Crean. All Crean did was operate the program at its nominal level. Are u one of those guys that sees some one drive a Dodge Viper 85 mph down the highway and say "man that guy must be an awesome race car driver!"
Crean was no better a coach, arguably worse, than Raymonds or Oneill. He is a average coach that got a job at a great program. And he has the burden of being socially handicapped.
He wanted everyone to beleive that he made MU....seems some drank his kool-aid.
i love the Crean got the al built, Crean got Mu into the BE. Sorry Charlie ...cords and Al deserve exponentially more credit then the curator.
You miss Chico, too, don't you? I think MU existed as a basketball power long before Crean. I think a series of poor decisions by the administration over a 10 year period drove us to a nadir. A series of better hiring decisions, of which hiring Crean was one, brought us back to a much better place than MU was at when I attended. Crean was clearly an upgrade over Deane. He was a salesman when the program needed a salesman. I thought he was a decent coach and a decent recruiter who clearly had flaws in landing bigs and in-game adjustments. He still deserves credit for 190 wins in 9 years and a final 4. If I was grading his tenure at MU, I would give him a B.
I was pi$$ed for about 2 weeks when he left, and then I let it go and moved on. You sound like you want an apology from me because I put him behind me. Geez, he's received his karmic retribution in spades. He's suffered for 3.5 years and MU is in a better place. (from a basketball perspective. The conference thing is an entirely different kettle of fish).
So, I think about Crean about as often and with the same emotion that I think about KO and Deane. (When he isn't the topic of a thread on this board) And yes, IMO, to continue to obsess over Crean and celebrate an injury to a kid just because it brings more difficulty to a coach who has been gone for 42 months relects poorly on all of us as a board and as MU fans and alums. Theoretically, the Jesuits would have taught us better than that.
Quote from: Canadian Dimes on October 11, 2011, 02:31:09 PM
Crean was no better a coach, arguably worse, than Raymonds or Oneill.
Is this the opposite of "damning with faint praise"?
Raymonds and O'Neil are pretty darn good coaches (in my opinion). I don't think calling a coach "arguably worse" is really that bad.
You should compare him to Dukiet or Deane.
Quote from: 2002MUalum on October 11, 2011, 02:51:32 PM
Is this the opposite of "damning with faint praise"?
Raymonds and O'Neil are pretty darn good coaches (in my opinion). I don't think calling a coach "arguably worse" is really that bad.
You should compare him to Dukiet or Deane.
Never said Crean was terrible...i would rank.
1.hank
2. ko
3. Crean
4. deane
5. Dukiet.
My point is does the 3rd best coach in the last 30 years for MU responsible for the Al being built or an invitaion to the BE? Is the 3rd best coach in the last 30 years the one that made Marquette? Hardly...he was the curator of a really good program and sold the living heck out of himself to make his accomplishments seem far more grandiose than they were. Some followers boaught in hook, line, and sinker. Obviously a few decison makers in Bloomington did too. Now they see him for what he truly is ..... average at best...but he talks a good game.
Quote from: tower912 on October 11, 2011, 01:57:02 PM
I feel bad for the kid. Nobody deserves this much bad luck. 3.5 years people. I've said it before and I will say it again, it is time to let it go. Crean moved on. The MU basketball program continues. Continuing this obsession is not a sign of good mental health and frankly is not a good way to represent MU.
I also feel bad for the kid. Really bad. But to twist a new injury to a player who was for all intents and purposes finished due to an injury a year and a half ago into a pity party for TC is ridiculous. I'd say the "Poor TC, the guy can't catch a break, you can't judge someone playing without a full deck" guys are the obsessed ones. Making excuses for a guy in his 4th year at a top 6 program over an injury to a 4 star player already twice seriously injured is weak sauce. If you think pointing out this uncomfortable (to some) fact is a sign of mental instability and a poor reflection on MU I respectfuuly disagree.
I'm not defending Crean's record at IU. I think he has reaping what he has sown. I just think the time to obsess over him is over. I still engage in schadenfreude (Wiscy hoops, Syracuse and Pitt football), but I'm done with it as far as Crean is concerned.
Quote from: MUBurrow on October 11, 2011, 01:50:44 PM
miss Chicos much?
No - not really at all -we've still got Golden Avalanche here to stir the pot and jock ride Crean while hating on our current coach.
I really don't have any issues with Crean....and think he was a good chapter in MU basketball and deserves a good deal of credit for rescuing MU from the depths of Deane. What I can't stand is those who try to take pot shots, and belittle our current coach at every turn - and the only posters here who seem intent on doing that are those who are hardcore Crean apologists: Chicos and Golden Avalanche.
Buzz isn't perfect by any means, but he sure seems to have done a GREAT job at MU, represents the university well, his players love him, and he's proven VERY loyal to MU thus far - turning down Oklahoma and Texas A&M. All we need is for enough ignorant imbeciles here and in our fan base to turn on him with their self righteousness and belaboring over the allegations this past spring - to where Buzz says the hell with these idiots and MKE - I'm out. THAT, more than the dissolution of the Big East will be a huge blow to MU basketball..and one we may not recover from. Let's not forget all the mid-major coaches that turned MU down after Crean moved on: Sean Miller, Tony Bennett, Anthony Grant, etc...
Don't think Buzz/coaching staff aren't aware of what gets written here, and don't think for a minute when you have as much leverage as a Buzz Williams has (could probably go coach at any school that has a vacancy next year) - that you get to a point where you feel unappreciated, and not respected...and in turn bolt...Coaches are human beings just like the rest of us...and NOBODY likes reading or hearing a bunch of crap being slung about them...Tom Crean included too.
Quote from: tower912 on October 11, 2011, 04:50:35 PM
I'm not defending Crean's record at IU. I think he has reaping what he has sown. I just think the time to obsess over him is over. I still engage in schadenfreude (Wiscy hoops, Syracuse and Pitt football), but I'm done with it as far as Crean is concerned.
Tower, you're a reasonable guy who often makes solid contributions here, but I think you have a rather loose definition of what obsessing is. You think any MU fan still rooting for or against Crean is "obsessed", yet you grant yourself a dispensation regarding other teams. Isn't that a tad arbitrary?
Pitt and Cuse are recent and topical and ongoing with how they affect us. Wisconsin and some of the miscreants who tell lies about MU on their boards are current and eternal. Crean, to me, is the equivalent of the girl who dumped me in 8th grade. Thanks for the memories but no effect on me today.
I see your point. You see yourself as a jilted lover and feel it's the healthy thing to "get over it". Fair enough.
Well, I had long since grown tired of TC BEFORE he left. I loved Marquette too much to root against him then. His departure freed me from such restraints going forward.