In the current football/basketball hybrid format, that is. I'm honestly not sure. TCU bolting for the Big 12 before they even play a game here is damaging. They were the football team that was supposed to solidify the league and give us a legitimate BCS contender. Where do we turn now? Here's the current roll call:
Football: Cincinnati, Connecticut, Louisville, Rutgers, South Florida, West Virginia
Basketball: DePaul, Georgetown, Louisville, Notre Dame, Marquette, Providence, Seton Hall, St. John's, Villanova
Losing recent Final Four participants like UConn, Louisville, and West Virginia would be a blow. I know everyone is crowing for a basketball only league, but is there a chance to keep football alive?
The first priority should be to get to 8 teams. To do that, we should add Temple and UCF. Both have currently improving football programs. I'm not going to say they're great, but honestly, Temple and UCF are right now at least equal to Syracuse and Pittsburgh on paper. In basketball, Temple should have no problems competing right away, and UCF may not be SU or Pitt, but they are definitely better than TCU.
That would restore balance to the league (basketball/football schools) and at least get us back to the 8/16 format. After that, I think we consider further expansion. Looking to get to 12 football teams right now is just too ambitious in one fell swoop. That means doubling the league size. I also think that it's important to remember the league was founded on basketball and that basketball should be considered the gold standard. But at the same time, ignoring football means ignoring long-term survival (though that may not be viable anyway, but playing devil's advocate...).
After that, I think we look at one of two routes. Both routes would include offering Xavier and Butler membership to the league as basketball-only schools. If people think Butler is too small and would rather add Dayton, George Mason, St. Louis, or VCU, so be it, but I think Butler's past decade of success speaks volumes and merits an invite. I also think Xavier and Butler offset the losses of Syracuse and Pittsburgh in basketball and push the Big East back to being the top basketball conference in the country. Maybe it won't have the high-end quality of the ACC (UNC, Duke, Syracuse) but the top three names (UConn, Louisville, Georgetown) are nearly as impressive and the depth of the conference would be as good as it's ever been.
Anyway, I digress...two routes. Both include Butler and Xavier. Then we add two football schools to get to 10. We can either add two football only schools like Army and Navy to get to a 10/18 split, but maintaining a 10/10 voting split of basketball/football. Or we can add two full members like Memphis, ECU, Houston, SMU, or Southern Miss. I'd vote Memphis and Southern Miss. I think that reaching to Texas might have been a bit too far with TCU. Memphis may not be the popular choice, but I think Cincy and Louisville would have to suck it up to accept them. They definitely improve basketball. Their football sucks, but with FedEx behind them, you have to think a turn-around is possible. Southern Miss has had 17 consecutive winning football seasons and had a winning record in basketball four of the last five seasons. They may not be great, but they're better than ECU. And most important, you can't (or at least shouldn't) have two Golden Eagles in the same conference, so I say we let them have the name and go back to Warriors. And when administration says no, let's just drop the nickname. We are Marquette. We don't need to be Golden Eagles, or Jumping Jesuits, or Hilltoppers, or Warhawks, or anything else, just Marquette.
Regardless, I think for now sticking with the football schools is the best option. Stay with them until it's no longer feasible. They represent too much positivity to the basketball brand, and if it does all come tumbling down, who's to say some of them (UConn, maybe?) might not end up putting their football in the MAC. If that's the case, I'd much rather they keep their basketball in the Big East, which the basketball schools would get the name rights to anyway by virtue of just outlasting everyone.
In name only.
Best thing is for the Big East to break up now, instead of adding some riff raff schools that have marginal football teams and marginal basketball teams.
While Temple would be a decent addition, and UCF could have some merit - why?? UCONN, WVU, Rutgers all want out of the Big East - do you really feel adding UCF and Temple is going to stop UCONN from going to the ACC once eventually offered? Or WVU to the Big 12 or SEC once likely eventually offered? Who does the Big East then go get to replace them? Ball State? Western Michigan? It will become a charade and the hamster on the wheel dynamic...racing frantically, but going nowhere.
Pitino has been great - but what is Lville gonna do? Stay in the turmoil of the Big East - or move to the Big 12 where you are at least tied in with Texas and Oklahoma in football..and revenue sharing is now equal in Big 12...and far more lucrative than what will be in the revised Big East?
Band Aid "solutions" are just that - band aids. They are not fixes to the root cause of the problem: Basketball only schools and football schools with basketball teams have VERY different needs/agendas.
Let's hope we don't devalue the Big East basketball brand and create further chaos and challenge by adding a bunch of crappy basketball teams who are only in the Big East due to their school having a football team.
The thing to remember is that there are only so many spots available. What if the ACC stays at 14? What if the Big 12 picks BYU and Boise State? Why try to drive good teams out if they don't have anywhere to go?
Bottom line, the basketball-only option will always be there. Why force it if we don't have to? What...would Xavier and Butler say no if the process took another 2 months?
One possibility that people I feel are overlooking is the ability of a conference to heighten the play/competitiveness of a particular institution. One example could be USF....USF has grown more compettive in Football and basketball since they joing C-USA...they then took the next step up when they joined the BE
( granted their bball team has not been world beaters but I would still argue the program is better)
Other examples going back are UCONN in both football and basketball....the younger folks may not remember when UConn was terrible in BBALL, actually dont think they even ever made an NCAA tournament before joining the BE.
Another example is Seton Hall. I had never even heard of them. Then they are a memeber of the BE and start building a program next thing you know by the late 80's and early 90's they have one of the premier hoops programs in the country and are within a foul with virtually no time on the clock of winning an NCAA title. ( Yes they have struggled recently)
I think those example prove to some degree the ability of a program to elevate by joining a major conference. Heck one could argue UCF and Temple are much farther along as basketball and football programs as the majority of original BE schools were in either when the BE was originally formed.
Not saying this will happen just taking a look at it from the other side of the coin..
FWIW...I am against ECU...they bring nothing as far as foothold or audience.
I am dumbfounded as to why Memphis is not prominent in the discussions.
Quote from: brewcity77 on October 07, 2011, 09:22:57 AM
The thing to remember is that there are only so many spots available. What if the ACC stays at 14? What if the Big 12 picks BYU and Boise State? Why try to drive good teams out if they don't have anywhere to go?
Bottom line, the basketball-only option will always be there. Why force it if we don't have to? What...would Xavier and Butler say no if the process took another 2 months?
I believe it is wishful thinking that the Big 12 would take Boise and BYU over WVU, Lville, and/or Cincy.
I get so annoyed with people talking about the Big East needs to be "proactive." Was going out and getting TCU not proactive?? Did it stop Pitt and Cuse from leaving? Do we really think adding football programs FAR down the pecking order from TCU like Temple and UCF is going to stop UCONN, WVU, Rutgers, Lville, Cincy leaving if/when other conferences offer??
What would be proactive would be for the Basketball only schools to block additional invites into the conference, and forcing the football schools out..or to stay in the current, non-AQ status Big East. Take control of the situation Marquette, Georgetown, Nova, St. Johns - you don't have to be puppets getting thrown around by the football schools.
I sure hope someone has the forsight and balls to stand up to the football schools. Do we really want to be in a basketball conference eventually with UCF, SMU, ECU?? I'd rather see us add Xavier and Butler - and you get to see each conference team every year at home..10 team league...9 home, 9 away...being guaranteed home games every year against Nova, GTown, St. Johns, Xavier, Butler, wouldn't be all that bad..
The football schools treat basketball like another non-money sport like soccer, track, etc. The bloated football budgets will migrate to whatever funder that will allow them to continue on. The infrastructure and overhead foreces them to seek the best compensation package or they are out of Schlitz. The basketball led schools should understand this and be nimble enough to form their own structure. Plan for the worst case scenerio and be proactive in lining up the best non-football schools as possible. Forget what is happening, you have no control over it. Xavier, Butler and St.Louis have markets that can build big programs over time. We should stay away from the state schools with "Eastern, Central, etc) in their name. They will always be secondary choices to the major state school in their states among recruits. Go Big East Basketball!
QuoteFWIW...I am against ECU...they bring nothing as far as foothold or audience.
Skip Holtz was building the program when he left. New coach Ruffin McNeill is an ECU alum and was DC for Leach at Texas Tech. He has ECU fans energized. Their current record is not indicative of how good they are, they have played good teams very competitively. They regularly sell out their FB games and are very "spirited" fans.
Their new basketball coach, Jeff Lebo was a four year player at UNC under Dean Smith and led them to their first winning season in 14 years and their first post season appearance in 17 years last year in his first year. His has "name equity" in NC and will recruit the state well. They will become a good, highly competitive basketball team in a basketball crazy state.
They have a big alumni base in North Carolina and across the SE.
My biggest concern about them is that their academic standards allow them to admit talented athletes who are academic rejects from UNC and others.
Quote from: texaswarrior74 on October 07, 2011, 12:26:37 PM
My biggest concern about them is that their academic standards allow them to admit talented athletes who are academic rejects from UNC and others.
As long as they qualify per NCAA guidelines, Marquette has a pretty much open door policy for all student athletes. ECU would be at basically those same standards.
Quote from: The Sultan of South Wayne on October 07, 2011, 12:29:32 PM
As long as they qualify per NCAA guidelines, Marquette has a pretty much open door policy for all student athletes. ECU would be at basically those same standards.
Understand fully, just saying that their admission standards for athletes fall well below those of UNC. They have inherited a number of VERY good players that Butch Davis recruited over the last few years that failed to qualify at UNC..... much to the chagrin of UNC football fans I might add.
Quote from: texaswarrior74 on October 07, 2011, 12:26:37 PM
Skip Holtz was building the program when he left. New coach Ruffin McNeill is an ECU alum and was DC for Leach at Texas Tech. He has ECU fans energized. Their current record is not indicative of how good they are, they have played good teams very competitively. They regularly sell out their FB games and are very "spirited" fans.
Their new basketball coach, Jeff Lebo was a four year player at UNC under Dean Smith and led them to their first winning season in 14 years and their first post season appearance in 17 years last year in his first year. His has "name equity" in NC and will recruit the state well. They will become a good, highly competitive basketball team in a basketball crazy state.
They have a big alumni base in North Carolina and across the SE.
My biggest concern about them is that their academic standards allow them to admit talented athletes who are academic rejects from UNC and others.
Does it really matter if the East Carolina football team is on the rise? Are many fans really going to tune in to East Carolina versus Rutgers, Connecticut, West Virginia, Cincy, football??
In North Carolina...no matter how you want to look at it - ECU is probably 5th in terms of appeal after: UNC, NC State, Duke, Wake Forest. Are we really at the point we want to add a state's 5th best team just to try to stay in a football conference?? IT NEEDS TO BE OVER FOR FOOTBALL IN THE BIG EAST!!
Please, before any football schools are added, raise the buyout for the Big East. If Louisville, WVU, Uconn, Cincy and USF won't agree to a larger buyout and prove that they are committed to sticking this out, then the basketball schools should block any football additions. This buyout should be greater than the ACC's new $20 million. As said in a few threads, the SEC might be willing to pool together that $20 million to buy a team(FSU?) away from the ACC, who could in turn buy out a Big East team. Has to be more than $20m.
Another option might be to admit new schools contingent on none of the five schools listed above leaving in the next ten years. If someone leaves then the new football schools get the boot too.
Basketball schools have to stick together on this and protect themselves while they still have slight voting leverage. Protect the Big East brand name and make sure it stays with the bball schools.
Doesn't look like it can, especially when teams like Navy and Air Force seem to be bowing out.
"Air Force, which is in the Mountain West Conference, and Navy, an independent in football, have been at the top of the Big East's wish list as football-only members, but one of the people who spoke to the AP said those two schools were cautious about joining a league that seems so unsettled."
http://espn.go.com/college-sports/story/_/id/7071427/big-east-leaders-discuss-conference-expansion-according-report