Per CBS
Quote from: Nukem2 on October 06, 2011, 10:39:05 AM
Per CBS
Wait, what happened to the "Unity"?????? The football schools cant get out fast enough. I hope we are working hard to lure Xavier for basketball.
This is why we need to dump the football schools. If we stay with them, we are just going to have the same problem a few years down the road when a power conference needs another team.
I agree... Problem is... How do you dump Uconn, Ville, Cincinnati, Rutgers, USF, WVU, etc.. if no one wants them? For basketball, they still make you a top 3 conference.
You make no effort to add any more football schools. They will have to leave.
Quote from: TallTitan34 on October 06, 2011, 11:26:45 AM
You make no effort to add any more football schools. They will have to leave.
problem with that is MArinatto, the BE, and the Presidents would need to make a philosophical shift. Currently, the philosphy is to add football teams to get to 10-12 football teams. What you are asking for is 180 degrees in the opposite direction.
Does marinatoo want to be the commish of a football conference and does the BE want to be a football or basketball conference. Until the decision is made to be a basketball conference that wont happen.
Bball schools need to show the balls to leave this bunch behind and start their own conference with 3-5 quality basketball schools. Dimes is right...the BE and its football schools care about football first and foremost.
Last weekend all the football schools were "united" to maintaining the Big East. Obviously not.
Time to change their philosophy.
TT, if they have a football team, they are going to be worried about that first because of the $$$ involved. The BE is in danger of potentially losing their AQ status, and that scares the sh*t out of them.
Quote from: The Sultan of South Wayne on October 06, 2011, 11:48:36 AM
Bball schools need to show the balls to leave this bunch behind and start their own conference with 3-5 quality basketball schools. Dimes is right...the BE and its football schools care about football first and foremost.
Agree, but we must wait for this all to fall apart. The Big East name is more valuable to the basketball schools, and it will really help the league remain relevant when the football schools go wherever they go.
Their AQ status is gone. Adding crappy teams isn't going to help.
They need to realize this and change their philosophy.
All over ESPN Dallas radio shows right now. They're saying that TCU has been invited to join the Big 12. Timing of the announcement is very interesting as well since this is Texas/OU weekend in Dallas. ESPN Gameday will be here on Saturday (actually arriving today) so there will be lots of coverage from the Cotton Bowl/State Fair.
After Patterson went off on June Jones and SMU on Tuesday and vowed "never to help them again" and to "do anything he could do to block SMU's path to the Big East" I wouldn't be surprised to see TCU blot from the BE and accept the Big 12 invitation.
FWIW, even Patterson's biggest fans in the media around here have been roundly criticizing his rant about SMU and have all openly expressed that they hope that TCU censures him in some way. He soundly like a whiny little girl after totally not understanding that Jones was complimenting the "system"/program that Patterson had built at TCU.
It's the first time I've seen the media here really come down hard on any local coach since the whole SMU/Bobby Collins fiasco in the 80s.
Another announcement coming soon?
https://twitter.com/#!/DaveSittler/status/121965274219028480 (https://twitter.com/#!/DaveSittler/status/121965274219028480)
Rumor is that its most likely the conference signing their 6-year tv rights away.
BE teams have to realize their football conference is always going to be crapola, but it can still be a terrific basketball conference. No one in BE cities gives a rat's behind about college football.
It's not what people "care" about. It is about $$$ - money that is used to support a great portion of their athletic budgets. These programs made assumptions about revenue, expense, etc. and made all sorts of plans accordingly. They can't just turn around and change their "philosophy" to "well, we kind of suck and football and no one cares anyway, so let's just concentrate on being a great basketball conference no matter that it could cost us $10 million." And I am not exaggerating on that figure.
In the grand scheme of things in college athletics, men's basketball is a distant...way distant...second to football. That's simply the reality of the world we live in.
The money will be gone if they don't have AQ status.
Yet, Sultan, the NCAA makes an absolute fortune off March Madness. The basketball schools in the BE should just say FU to the football schools and let them go play their meaningless games.
Anyone know if TCU will have to pay the buy-out? I realize, a day late a dollar short and all that.
Quote from: TallTitan34 on October 06, 2011, 12:24:30 PM
The money will be gone if they don't have AQ status.
Exactly...but they have to try to fight to keep it. They are betting that adding the right football schools will do that. They may be wrong, but they have to try.
Quote from: ecompt on October 06, 2011, 12:30:30 PM
Yet, Sultan, the NCAA makes an absolute fortune off March Madness.
The combined conference football rights dwarf the March Madness rights.
March Madness is 14 yr 10.8 billion....Not sure what the TV rights are for regular season or conference tournaments.....
Quote from: The Sultan of South Wayne on October 06, 2011, 12:37:00 PM
The combined conference football rights dwarf the March Madness rights.
Not close to true.
The combined annual BCS conference rights (football and basketball) comes in at about $683 million per year, according to these figures.
http://www.walletgenius.com/2010/06/15/the-value-of-the-tv-contracts-of-the-6-major-ncaa-conferences/
I haven't done the full math, but it looks like these numbers here pretty much are the same ($205 million for SEC, $33 million Big East, etc.)
http://blogs.orlandosentinel.com/sports_college/2010/07/taking-a-closer-look-at-conference-television-contracts.html
Last year, the NCAA and CBS struck a deal in which the network will pay $11 billion over 14 years for tournament rights. That's $785 million a year.
http://content.usatoday.com/communities/campusrivalry/post/2010/04/ncaa-reaches-14-year-deal-with-cbsturner/1
Thanks for the research, pakuni.
Quote from: T-Bone on October 06, 2011, 12:32:24 PM
Anyone know if TCU will have to pay the buy-out? I realize, a day late a dollar short and all that.
$5,000,000 buyout.
Those figures are old. The Pac 12 figure is now $225M per year.
http://sports.espn.go.com/ncf/news/story?id=6471380
The Big 12 combo with Fox and ESPN is $150M per year
http://lubbockonline.com/filed-online/2011-04-13/big-12-strikes-landmark-lucrative-tv-contract-fox
The ACC contract is $155M per year.
http://www.dailypress.com/sports/dp-spt-newteel-acctv-0520,0,4065545.column
I am not sure why they got the ACC one wrong. That was signed before the blog post. But the Pac 12 and B12 deals are within the past year.
You add those all up and you get a shade over $1B per year. Now obviously I was wrong when I say it "dwarfes" what March Madness gets, but it is still more.
And this doesn't include the revenue that conferences get from participating in the BCS to begin with.
Quote from: The Sultan of South Wayne on October 06, 2011, 01:23:00 PM
Those figures are old. The Pac 12 figure is now $225M per year.
http://sports.espn.go.com/ncf/news/story?id=6471380
The Big 12 combo with Fox and ESPN is $150M per year
http://lubbockonline.com/filed-online/2011-04-13/big-12-strikes-landmark-lucrative-tv-contract-fox
The ACC contract is $155M per year.
http://www.dailypress.com/sports/dp-spt-newteel-acctv-0520,0,4065545.column
I am not sure why they got the ACC one wrong. That was signed before the blog post. But the Pac 12 and B12 deals are within the past year.
You add those all up and you get a shade over $1B per year. Now obviously I was wrong when I say it "dwarfes" what March Madness gets, but it is still more.
And this doesn't include the revenue that conferences get from participating in the BCS to begin with.
Is there also a distinction to be made that the football money goes directly to the conferences to be divided by the members, while the March Madness money goes to the NCAA and much of it is used for other purposes than payouts to the conferences/teams that participate? I have a vague recollection that the NCAA uses part of that cash to run the tournaments for all the other sports. Could be wrong about that. Does anybody know what percentage of that March Madness money gets paid out, and what percentage gets used by the NCAA for other purposes? Or am I completely wrong about this?
By the way...stolen from another board:
Pre 1994: TCU a member of the Southwest Conference
1994-5: 6 schools leave the SWC and end up in a different conference than TCU due to Big 8 raid
1996: TCU joins WAC
1999: 8 members (including 4 remaining founding members) leave the WAC for the MWC
2001: TCU joins CUSA
2003-5: 8 members of CUSA decide to leave to Big East raid
2005: TCU joins Mountain West
2010: The two conference pillars, Utah (Pac-12 raid) and BYU decide to leave
2011: TCU announces that it's joining the Big East
2011: Pitt and Syracuse (the two remaining Big East members who were all sports since they add football) leave for the ACC
2011: TCU joins the Big 12
I'm not sure what this says about TCU.
Quote from: StillAWarrior on October 06, 2011, 01:28:22 PM
Is there also a distinction to be made that the football money goes directly to the conferences to be divided by the members, while the March Madness money goes to the NCAA and much of it is used for other purposes than payouts to the conferences/teams that participate? I have a vague recollection that the NCAA uses part of that cash to run the tournaments for all the other sports. Could be wrong about that. Does anybody know what percentage of that March Madness money gets paid out, and what percentage gets used by the NCAA for other purposes? Or am I completely wrong about this?
No you are correct. Not exactly sure of how much of that $$ gets to the members.
For better or worse the BE will not lose is BCS AQ status. The loss of Pittsburgh and Syracuse will not affect that. The BCS keeps the NE sector of the country interested in big time collge footabll and tuned in. All those eyes and markets are a huge boon, for what one spot in a bowl game? Small cost for the BCS to keep 1/3 of the nations eyes interested. And in fact while the BE as a whole has not been a juggernaut, they have managaed to produce a team or two each year including a number of 1 loss teams over the last few years and has won a good number of those BCS bowl games.
Quote from: The Sultan of South Wayne on October 06, 2011, 01:29:44 PM
By the way...stolen from another board:
Pre 1994: TCU a member of the Southwest Conference
1994-5: 6 schools leave the SWC and end up in a different conference than TCU due to Big 8 raid
1996: TCU joins WAC
1999: 8 members (including 4 remaining founding members) leave the WAC for the MWC
2001: TCU joins CUSA
2003-5: 8 members of CUSA decide to leave to Big East raid
2005: TCU joins Mountain West
2010: The two conference pillars, Utah (Pac-12 raid) and BYU decide to leave
2011: TCU announces that it's joining the Big East
2011: Pitt and Syracuse (the two remaining Big East members who were all sports since they add football) leave for the ACC
2011: TCU joins the Big 12
I'm not sure what this says about TCU.
The Horned Frogs are actually just a big fat bag of dicks?
Dimes, the BE has done OK in the BCS. 6-7. But three of those six wins are from a school that is no longer in the conference. (Miami). And the last victory was 2008 when WVU won the Fiesta Bowl.
I think the BE is more likely to keep their AQ status for legal reasons.
^
Actually they were wronged badly when the original Big 12 was put together. Baylor had powerful allies in the state legislature including the Governor and Lt Governor who helped safeguard their place which put the screws to TCU and SMU in particular. Texas and A&M didn't want more potentially good teams eroding their recruiting base.
TCU did what it had to do to remain relevant in any way while it tried to rebuild football which meant lots of moving around as the program got better.
I thought the move to the BE was grabbing for straws in the first place and geographically would have been a hardship and big money drain for non revenue sports at all schools but more so for TCU.
The Big 12 is a far better fit all around and I can't blame them in the least.
Quote from: The Sultan of South Wayne on October 06, 2011, 01:23:00 PM
Those figures are old. The Pac 12 figure is now $225M per year.
http://sports.espn.go.com/ncf/news/story?id=6471380
The Big 12 combo with Fox and ESPN is $150M per year
http://lubbockonline.com/filed-online/2011-04-13/big-12-strikes-landmark-lucrative-tv-contract-fox
The ACC contract is $155M per year.
http://www.dailypress.com/sports/dp-spt-newteel-acctv-0520,0,4065545.column
I am not sure why they got the ACC one wrong. That was signed before the blog post. But the Pac 12 and B12 deals are within the past year.
You add those all up and you get a shade over $1B per year. Now obviously I was wrong when I say it "dwarfes" what March Madness gets, but it is still more.
And this doesn't include the revenue that conferences get from participating in the BCS to begin with.
But those are
combined football and basketball revenues. Safe to say football makes up the lion's share of that, but even if it's as much as 75-80 percent, it would at best be roughly equal to or slightly more than the NCAA tournament rights.
Understood Pakuni. Regardless, my "dwarf" statement was wrong...
boohoo we wont have to have a 250+ RPI opponent for years to come.
color me relieved.
Boom goes the Horned Frogs...............and the BEast.
Quote from: 4everwarriors on October 06, 2011, 07:27:05 PM
Boom goes the Horned Frogs...............and the BEast.
Yes and maybe (eventually), but I hope the funniest and occasionally most insightful dentist in the upper midwest isn't suggesting that something as insignificant as the former could move the needle on, let alone be the cause of the latter.
I continue to say that a friendly divorce is the only reasonable answer. The football teams need to be allowed to leave, probably with shortened notice requirements at a minimum. The hoops only schools (plus ND) need to be allowed to keep the BEast name and bring in basketball only replacements for a 10-12 team league. This solution represents max. stability for all involved. I don't blame the remainging football schools; I blame Pitt and Syracuse. Big 12 is the best place for TCU. God's speed.
Quote from: Lennys Tap on October 06, 2011, 07:54:37 PM
Yes and maybe (eventually), but I hope the funniest and occasionally most insightful dentist in the upper midwest isn't suggesting that something as insignificant as the former could move the needle on, let alone be the cause of the latter.
[/quote
Lenny man, just the Upper Midwest? But then again, I suppose, I did only go to a middle of the road dental school.
Quote from: ecompt on October 06, 2011, 12:08:15 PM
BE teams have to realize their football conference is always going to be crapola, but it can still be a terrific basketball conference. No one in BE cities gives a rat's behind about college football.
This is true. If you hop on the L'ville board, the consensus I get is that they don't want to leave Big East basketball. With what Pitino has created (or resurrected) and the YUM, L'ville is a bball school. In a perfect world, a large majority of Cardinals fans wish they didn't have football and could stay in a conference with the likes of UCONN, MU, G'town, Nova, etc.
Reason #458 why I hate college football.
My brother who moved to Pitt last year said it really seemed close to 50-50 there on those who liked and disliked the acc move. Those guys always seemed more rapi about the beast tournament than the NCAA or football
Quote from: jsglow on October 06, 2011, 08:00:01 PM
I continue to say that a friendly divorce is the only reasonable answer. The football teams need to be allowed to leave, probably with shortened notice requirements at a minimum. The hoops only schools (plus ND) need to be allowed to keep the BEast name and bring in basketball only replacements for a 10-12 team league. This solution represents max. stability for all involved. I don't blame the remainging football schools; I blame Pitt and Syracuse. Big 12 is the best place for TCU. God's speed.
But why boot the football schools if they have no landing place? What if the SEC goes with Missouri, and then the Big 12 adds TCU, SMU, BYU, and Boise State to get to 12? Why tell Louisville and Cincy they have to go back to CUSA, or UConn that they have to go to the MAC, or WVU that they have to go independent? Keep them around.
Look, the ideal is for the Big East to remain BCS. But if not, and we don't lose schools, does it really matter that much? What if we add Army and Navy for football, Temple and UCF as full members, and still lose the BCS bid? We'll still have an elite basketball conference. It will be tougher for the football programs to get to a BCS game (like it has been for Utah, Boise State, and TCU in recent years) but if they're good enough, they can still get there under the current format. And our basketball brand is a lot stronger with UConn, Louisville, and West Virginia in the mix.
There's no need for a divorce, just a need to accept that we might not be a football superpower. Since that hasn't really been a problem the past ten years, I don't see why it'd change going forward. Just keep the basketball strong. The best way to do that is to keep the football schools that are willing to stay as long as we can, even if the football dissolves and they park their teams in the MAC.