http://content.usatoday.com/communities/campusrivalry/post/2011/09/big-east-united-nations-conference-realignment/1
"One official in the Big East who requested anonymity said that was not an accurate assessment of the sentiment in the room. The official said league schools are committed to recruiting more schools but did not make any pledge to remaining in the league until it's clear what the league will look like."
http://gmuhoops.tumblr.com/post/10479395863
"There were also reports of the six basketball-playing private schools in the Big East (Notre Dame excluded) looking to join up with a group of A-10 schools that included UMass, Rhode Island, Dayton, Xavier, and then potentially some additions from the CAA (George Mason, VCU). Marinatto, however, claims that the basketball schools have also pledged to stand firm in their allegiance to the Big East."
If option 2 has really been discussed and could happen, that's my choice to happen right now. The main problem I see is keeping the Big East name.
RI, Dayton, UMass, GM, VCU - welcome to the land of the mid-majors and irrelevance.
Quote from: dwaderoy2004 on September 21, 2011, 12:33:37 PM
If option 2 has really been discussed and could happen, that's my choice to happen right now. The main problem I see is keeping the Big East name.
I think we should do everything in our power to remain in the Big East for 2 more years. Getting the 8 years of continuity is big for NCAA bid purposes. After that, as long as we are able to stick with St. John's, Providence, Georgetown, DePaul, Seton Hall, and Villanova and/or Notre Dame, we're good to go.
I know someone mentioned that the NCAA might relent on their auto-bid regulations if everything blows up, but why? This will still only impact 3-4 conferences. It's the remnants of the Big East and Big 12, and the few that might get dragged into a basketball-only league. They won't change the rule for that because it wouldn't have any impact on the other 25-30 leagues.
Quote from: dwaderoy2004 on September 21, 2011, 12:33:37 PM
If option 2 has really been discussed and could happen, that's my choice to happen right now. The main problem I see is keeping the Big East name.
Couldnt Agree More...No doubt eventually we will go to an All Hoops League Because of the Obvious Dollars and Cents...
We Must Retain The Big East Name or it is gonna get real ugly.....
Quote from: PE8983 on September 21, 2011, 12:47:30 PM
RI, Dayton, UMass, GM, VCU - welcome to the land of the mid-majors and irrelevance.
So irrelevant that two of those schools have been to final fours in the last few years. If you include Georgetown, MU and Nova, that is five of those proposed members.
That's the reality folks. We were in the CUSA and did just fine.
Quote from: Aughnanure on September 21, 2011, 12:28:29 PM
There were also reports of the six basketball-playing private schools in the Big East (Notre Dame excluded) looking to join up with a group of A-10 schools that included UMass, Rhode Island, Dayton, Xavier, and then potentially some additions from the CAA (George Mason, VCU). Marinatto, however, claims that the basketball schools have also pledged to stand firm in their allegiance to the Big East.
Six? I am assuming he means seven excluding Notre Dame. Unless Nova isn't on board yet.
I actually don't mind that conference, with one caveat:
These schools need to get out and play really tough non-conference schedules.
I think the only way for a league like that to stay nationally relevant is to get out and play in the tough pre-season tournaments and schedule major opponents.
I know each of these private schools uses basketball revenue to support their athletics, but I think the conf. would slowly lose steam over the years if the bottom 1/2 still played crappy non-televised non-conf. opponents and then depended on doing well in conference.
Everybody needs to agree to get out and take on a bunch of BCS schools early in an attempt to get on TV and get national exposure for the conference.
I know the logistics of this are tough, but I think a basketball only conference has to make some innovative steps to stay relevant.
BTW, four of those schools are public (UMass, URI, GM and VCU)
I want the following schools in our conference:
1) Marquette
2) Depaul
3) St. Johns
4) Georgetown
5) Villanova
6) Seton Hall
7) Providence
8) Notre Dame
9) Xavier
10) Butler....maybe
If we start watering down a very good basketball conference with Rhode Island, VCU, George Mason, etc we are flirting with the mid-major label again....I know George Mason's final 4 run, but that was a fluke and everyone knows it......
We have to keep the Big East name and we have to continue to have the tournament in MSG
THis sucks and I wish we had football and were attractive to the greedy scumbags running the other universities, but we don't and that, unfortunately, is how it is.......
Nauseating for sure.....
Quote from: The Sultan of South Wayne on September 21, 2011, 01:14:17 PM
Six? I am assuming he means seven excluding Notre Dame. Unless Nova isn't on board yet.
I saw a similar quote where they mistakenly excluded DePaul, so I wonder if they just carried through the error. Although, I guess what they've done the past few years may not be considered "playing basketball".
Quote from: 2002MUalum on September 21, 2011, 01:22:19 PM
I actually don't mind that conference, with one caveat:
These schools need to get out and play really tough non-conference schedules.
I think the only way for a league like that to stay nationally relevant is to get out and play in the tough pre-season tournaments and schedule major opponents.
I know each of these private schools uses basketball revenue to support their athletics, but I think the conf. would slowly lose steam over the years if the bottom 1/2 still played crappy non-televised non-conf. opponents and then depended on doing well in conference.
Everybody needs to agree to get out and take on a bunch of BCS schools early in an attempt to get on TV and get national exposure for the conference.
I know the logistics of this are tough, but I think a basketball only conference has to make some innovative steps to stay relevant.
I like the idea, but the problem is that the BCS/superconferences might not be willing to schedule many games with the lowly, basketball-only conference that adds nothing of monetary value to the football schools.
Quote from: drbchilds on September 21, 2011, 01:35:11 PM
I want the following schools in our conference:
1) Marquette
2) Depaul
3) St. Johns
4) Georgetown
5) Villanova
6) Seton Hall
7) Providence
8) Notre Dame
9) Xavier
10) Butler....maybe
I like this. I'd potentially also try & grab UMass and Memphis as well, see if they're interested in at least being in a premier basketball conference. Its not like Memphis putting it football team in a different league will change much for them.
That gets it to 12, where I think it needs to be (2 divisions). If Notre Dame finally joins another conference, sub-in St. Louis.
Quote from: drbchilds on September 21, 2011, 01:35:11 PM
If we start watering down a very good basketball conference with Rhode Island, VCU, George Mason, etc we are flirting with the mid-major label again....I know George Mason's final 4 run, but that was a fluke and everyone knows it......
We have to keep the Big East name and we have to continue to have the tournament in MSG
VCU, RI, George Mason have no business in a league like this. At least Richmond and Charlotte have arenas that seat over 9,000 and will get us into new markets.
I dont know why a Charleston reporter tweeted this but he said an effort to raise the $5M opt-out at last night's football meeting with Marinatto was shot down.
Time for a bball-only conference, IMO.
Quote from: muhs03 on September 21, 2011, 02:12:35 PMI dont know why a Charleston reporter tweeted this but he said an effort to raise the $5M opt-out at last night's football meeting with Marinatto was shot down.
Time for a bball-only conference, IMO.
Of course it was shot down. Because most of the football schools are sitting by their phones waiting for an invite somewhere else and don't want a bigger poison pill to swallow if/when the phone finally does ring.
Still...if all works for the best, we should aim to break off to a basketball-only conference after the 2012-13 season. And hopefully add a couple basketball-only schools in the meantime to balance out the additions of Army and Navy (should that come to pass).
Quote from: PE8983 on September 21, 2011, 12:47:30 PM
RI, Dayton, UMass, GM, VCU - welcome to the land of the mid-majors and irrelevance.
Some could say that about Marquette in the Conf. USA days. Those schools have the same profile as MU, other than not being in the Big East.
Quote from: Aughnanure on September 21, 2011, 02:11:55 PM
VCU, RI, George Mason have no business in a league like this. At least Richmond and Charlotte have arenas that seat over 9,000 and will get us into new markets.
VCU is in Richmond, and their arena seats 8,000.
GM is in Fairfield and their arena seats 10,000.
Quote from: MerrittsMustache on September 21, 2011, 01:37:57 PM
I like the idea, but the problem is that the BCS/superconferences might not be willing to schedule many games with the lowly, basketball-only conference that adds nothing of monetary value to the football schools.
You would most likely have to do more away games in order to get BCS schools to bite. You could set it up as a one year away game deal or a three year deal with two away and one home. Then the negative is you take away from the number of your possible home games which decreases ticket sales.
If you look at most schools, they only play a max of two or three quality non-conference games outside of the holiday tournaments. That goes back to having more home games to get ticket sales.
"So irrelevant that two of those schools have been to final fours in the last few years."
Yeah, that makes them great historical bball programs - yeah right.
Quote from: The Sultan of South Wayne on September 21, 2011, 03:16:45 PM
VCU is in Richmond, and their arena seats 8,000.
GM is in Fairfield and their arena seats 10,000.
Forgot, my argument against GM is that GTown would never let them in. Fairfield is the NoVa/DC/Md metro area. True on VCU, thought it was 7500 - but its apparently "expandable" to 8000.
I don't know who wins the shoving match between Richmond and VCU if we are forming a conference thats over 12 teams. VCU has a much larger alumni base (18,000 undergrads), Richmond has a much endowment over $1billion (surprise to me). VCU is ranked #170 on US News & World Report, Richmond is the #27 national liberal arts college.
Quote from: The Sultan of South Wayne on September 21, 2011, 03:16:45 PM
VCU is in Richmond, and their arena seats 8,000.
GM is in Fairfield and their arena seats 10,000.
Maybe with a step up they will build new arenas. They are NCAA tournament teams. VCU was in the final four.
"Some could say that about Marquette in the Conf. USA days. Those schools have the same profile as MU, other than not being in the Big East."
RI and Dayton - are you serious? MU had raised it's bball profile and status to being near the top of the best conference in the country. These 2 schools can't even finish in the top half of a mid-major league.
Quote from: PE8983 on September 21, 2011, 04:01:44 PM
"Some could say that about Marquette in the Conf. USA days. Those schools have the same profile as MU, other than not being in the Big East."
RI and Dayton - are you serious? MU had raised it's bball profile and status to being near the top of the best conference in the country. These 2 schools can't even finish in the top half of a mid-major league.
The last time we played Dayton they kicked the crap out of us in the Chicago invitational. They looked like the more talented team even though we had Matthews, McNeal, James and Hayward on our team.
I just hate that BCS coaches are having a field day with potential MU and BE recruits over this. smh
"The last time we played Dayton they kicked the crap out of us in the Chicago invitational. They looked like the more talented team even though we had Matthews, McNeal, James and Hayward on our team."
So MU plays their worst game of the year, UD plays lights out and now Dayton deserves to play BE competition. MU beat the crap out of UK in '03, but it doesn't mean we were the better team that year, nor come anywhere close to matching their history.
Quote from: PE8983 on September 21, 2011, 06:56:07 PM
"The last time we played Dayton they kicked the crap out of us in the Chicago invitational. They looked like the more talented team even though we had Matthews, McNeal, James and Hayward on our team."
So MU plays their worst game of the year, UD plays lights out and now Dayton deserves to play BE competition. MU beat the crap out of UK in '03, but it doesn't mean we were the better team that year, nor come anywhere close to matching their history.
There was a time in the 80's when MU was pretty poor also. I just see a lot of posters who think we are that much better than other teams. Who is to say how Dayton would have done, if they had been added to Big East when we were. It totally changes the recruiting dynamics. Posters are also looking at attendence numbers. Attendance is often a reflection of who you play. MU averages 15,000, but there is a large variance in attendence between a good Big East game and some of our non-conference games where fans only come because they were in the season ticket package. While it is not guaranteed, I would expect any team added to the league would see an increase in attendence and an increase in recruiting success.
By the way after last season Dayton was 45th in all time wins with an overall record of 1471 and 1026. Pittsburg was 49th with an overall record of 1465 and 1048. However MU was 48th with an overall record of 1467-905, so our winning percentage is a lot higher than Dayton or Pitt.
Quote from: bilsu on September 21, 2011, 07:25:23 PM
By the way after last season Dayton was 45th in all time wins with an overall record of 1471 and 1026. Pittsburg was 49th with an overall record of 1465 and 1048. However MU was 48th with an overall record of 1467-905, so our winning percentage is a lot higher than Dayton or Pitt.
Winning percentage is relative, IMO. Pitt didnt experience a lot of parity throughout the years in the BE and they were never a perennial winner until recently (something that has never been easy to do in the BE). I think the A10 and CUSA were slightly more balanced through the years.
Quote from: PE8983 on September 21, 2011, 04:01:44 PM
"Some could say that about Marquette in the Conf. USA days. Those schools have the same profile as MU, other than not being in the Big East."
RI and Dayton - are you serious? MU had raised it's bball profile and status to being near the top of the best conference in the country. These 2 schools can't even finish in the top half of a mid-major league.
That's my point.
MU was an NIT team in it's final two season in conf. usa. Why couldn't Dayton? They have a solid fan base as MU has. It's could build it's basketball profile in a better league as MU has done in the Big East.
Quote from: mupanther on September 21, 2011, 07:39:18 PM
That's my point.
MU was an NIT team in it's final two season in conf. usa. Why couldn't Dayton? They have a solid fan base as MU has. It's could build it's basketball profile in a better league as MU has done in the Big East.
I agree with you. The last time Dayton had good success was when Oliver Purnell was their head coach. 6 years later and where is Oliver Purnell? Trying to breath life into a lifeless program at DePaul. DePaul has no fanbase. Dayton runs circles around them and their students are far more passionate. Keep Purnell at Dayton and put them in the BE instead of DePaul and there is no doubt in my mind that UD competes (not for conference championships, but for NCAA berths).
All time records of Big East teams or potential additions from top 50 winning programs. I also included all Big 12 teams or teams no one would think of.
2 Kansas 2038-647 .760
5 Syracuse 1810-819 .688
6 Temple 1766-974 .645 Nobody mentions because of Villanova
7 St John's 1724-896 .658
9 Notre Dame 1701-927
16 Western Kentucky 1639-809 .670 I think they were at one time in same conference as Louisville.
17 Texas 1638-963 .630
18 Louisville 1632-854 .656
21 West Virginia 1602-991 .618
23 Cinncinatti 1598-940 .630
26 Bradley 1565-1041 .601
27 Villanova 1551-870 .641
28 Connecticut 1549-864
29 Missouri State 1548-854 .644 surprise
30 Oklahoma 1526-977 .610
32 Georgetown 1520-946 .616
34 Oklahoma St. 1517-1055
35T St Joseph's 1499-1008 .598
35T Missouri 1499-1039
42 Kansas St. 1486-1058 .584
43 Illinois St. 1474-1066 .580 surprise
45 Dayton 1471-1026 .589
48 Marquette 1467-905 .618
49 Pittsburg 1465-1048
Xavier, Butler, DePaul, Seton Hall, Providence and South Florida are outside of the top 50.