Just curious, would they even be interested in leaving their conference now? Are we assuming to much expecting that would come to a reconfigured BE if it happens?
Xavier would join as basketball-only in a heartbeat, they wanted to be in the mix the last time the Big East expanded, my only worry is that they might want to bring Dayton along. Butler I'm not as sure on, but I'd guess they'd also come along. They were considered a bubble team last year had they not beat UW-M for the conference tourney, joining the Big East would solidify their conference schedule and save them that problem in the future (though playing against the likes of Marquette, Georgetown, UConn, Louisville, and Villanova instead of UW-Milwaukee, Youngstown State, Cleveland State, Detroit, and UIC may create problems of a different sort).
I just do not see why Butler would be interested. They are king where they are now. To move to another conference where most teams spend more money and have better facilites than them does not make sense to me. It might depend on how Brad Stevens feels about it. Xavier is more likely, but why should they move from their current situation that they are prospering in?
Quote from: bilsu on September 21, 2011, 10:59:39 AMI just do not see why Butler would be interested. They are king where they are now. To move to another conference where most teams spend more money and have better facilites than them does not make sense to me. It might depend on how Brad Stevens feels about it. Xavier is more likely, but why should they move from their current situation that they are prospering in?
How much money do you think Xavier and Butler get for their current national TV contracts? How much of a revenue share do they get when their conferences place 8-11 teams in the NCAA tournament? How likely are they to make the tournament if they don't win their league?
Joining the Big East for both schools would be a tremendous financial windfall and provides a clearer path to the NCAAs. Xavier would join in a heartbeat. Butler would be idiotic not to join. Getting to the title game in consecutive years is great, but everyone knows that they won't sustain that, and they're the only team in the Horizon bringing in NCAA money that they then have to share with everyone else. They could go 0-18 in the Big East and still make probably ten times what they are making in the Horizon.
Butler may be king of their little hill, but when it comes to the long-term, that's like being the king of Brewer's Hill when you could be sharing the wealth of one of the Alps. And how long does Brad Stevens stick around in the Horizon? At some point, he'll likely test the waters. Possibly not until a Duke or Syracuse opens up, but at some point, it'll happen. There's a lot less likelihood of that if he's in one of the elite basketball conferences in the country. And if anyone doubts that, just look to Xavier. They know that story all too well.
I think they would move for more exposure. Helps with recruiting and bringing in a bigger fanbase. The Horizon league isn't the most glamorous conference in America. They could draw more players with better competition.
I don't think Butler would think twice about it, the Horizon league is a joke. Their recruiting immediately would benefit from a conference upgrade.
Quote from: Bieberhole69 on September 21, 2011, 11:23:05 AM
I don't think Butler would think twice about it, the Horizon league is a joke. Their recruiting immediately would benefit from a conference upgrade.
My greatest regret in life is not coming up with the handle Bieberhole69.
Also, I agree completely.
More revenue but more expense with the likelyhood of finishing 8th instead of first. I think it is a no brainer, if they see it as a way to keep Stevens.
Butler would jump at the BE.
Problem is does the BE really want Butler? They have no real BCS type facilities. Ok they have had a great run but they lost a ton of games last year, how mnay would thay have lost against the BE schedule?
I dont think they can matchup up with the BE programs in any sport, despite what a couple cinderella runs might make people think, short term.
Quote from: Canadian Dimes on September 21, 2011, 12:05:41 PM
Butler would jump at the BE.
Problem is does the BE really want Butler? They have no real BCS type facilities. Ok they have had a great run but they lost a ton of games last year, how mnay would thay have lost against the BE schedule?
I dont think they can matchup up with the BE programs in any sport, despite what a couple cinderella runs might make people think, short term.
Plenty of fans of legacy Big East schools were saying the same thing about Marquette back in 2004. Butler's earned the benefit of the doubt.
Quote from: Canadian Dimes on September 21, 2011, 12:05:41 PM
Butler would jump at the BE.
Problem is does the BE really want Butler? They have no real BCS type facilities. Ok they have had a great run but they lost a ton of games last year, how mnay would thay have lost against the BE schedule?
I dont think they can matchup up with the BE programs in any sport, despite what a couple cinderella runs might make people think, short term.
I don't think their facilties would be much of an issue, they could do a Villanova-type arangement at Canseco. The momemtum they have going right now, Brad Stevens, and a move to the BE is enough to sustain a competetive program.
Quote from: brewcity77 on September 21, 2011, 11:06:51 AM
How much money do you think Xavier and Butler get for their current national TV contracts? How much of a revenue share do they get when their conferences place 8-11 teams in the NCAA tournament? How likely are they to make the tournament if they don't win their league?
Joining the Big East for both schools would be a tremendous financial windfall and provides a clearer path to the NCAAs. Xavier would join in a heartbeat. Butler would be idiotic not to join. Getting to the title game in consecutive years is great, but everyone knows that they won't sustain that, and they're the only team in the Horizon bringing in NCAA money that they then have to share with everyone else. They could go 0-18 in the Big East and still make probably ten times what they are making in the Horizon.
Butler may be king of their little hill, but when it comes to the long-term, that's like being the king of Brewer's Hill when you could be sharing the wealth of one of the Alps. And how long does Brad Stevens stick around in the Horizon? At some point, he'll likely test the waters. Possibly not until a Duke or Syracuse opens up, but at some point, it'll happen. There's a lot less likelihood of that if he's in one of the elite basketball conferences in the country. And if anyone doubts that, just look to Xavier. They know that story all too well.
Brew, for the sake of disscussion, assume UCONN leaves. Now the BE lost three top programs in basketball. What do you think the TV deal becomes then for the remaining BE? The current financial disparity you cite for X and Butler would narrow significantly I would think. BE basketball take a huge hit losing three power teams.
Quote from: 79Warrior on September 21, 2011, 12:32:32 PM
Brew, for the sake of disscussion, assume UCONN leaves. Now the BE lost three top programs in basketball. What do you think the TV deal becomes then for the remaining BE? The current financial disparity you cite for X and Butler would narrow significantly I would think. BE basketball take a huge hit losing three power teams.
Take a hit, yes. But right now, St. John's, Georgetown, Marquette, Villanova, West Virginia, Louisville, and Cincinnati are more marketable than any other team in either the Horizon or A-10. The Big East is taking a massive hit, but even a damaged Big East is still far more lucrative than either the A-10 or Horizon, and a reconstructed basketball-only league would also be far better than anything either of those two leagues can get.
Honestly, when was the last time Butler had a national game between January and the end of their conference schedule? Xavier? Marquette has 6 games on ESPN, ESPN2, or CBS next year. 12 if you count ESPNU. That's a lot of exposure and a lot of money they would be leaving on the table if they passed on a Big East offer. Even in a depleted Big East, they'd get more exposure in an average week than they do in their entire Horizon or A-10 conference schedules.
Actually Xavier has 12 Espn/espnU/2 etc games on their schedule. The rest of our games are on Fox Sports through our fox sports contract. Every game is televised and if you have direct tv, every game is national(offered in their sports package). Xavier is also the 15th most valuable program in College Basketball according to Forbes Magazine, more valuable than.... Marquette.
That being said, you beat our asses last year in the ncaa, but I'd love to end up in a conference with you guys and most of the rest of the big east catholic schools. Good Luck in all this craziness.
Quote from: Xbus on September 22, 2011, 03:30:24 PM
Xavier is also the 15th most valuable program in College Basketball according to Forbes Magazine, more valuable than.... Marquette.
Value is relative. Given the opportunity, MU wouldn't trade places with XU. I think that's all you need to know.
Quote from: Canadian Dimes on September 21, 2011, 12:05:41 PM
Butler would jump at the BE.
Problem is does the BE really want Butler? They have no real BCS type facilities. Ok they have had a great run but they lost a ton of games last year, how mnay would thay have lost against the BE schedule?
I dont think they can matchup up with the BE programs in any sport, despite what a couple cinderella runs might make people think, short term.
Between 2001 and 2008 ... i.e., before a couple of Cinderella runs ... Butler made it past the first round of the tournament four times, knocking off the likes of Wake Forest, Mississipi State, Louisville and Maryland. They're not a flash in the pan like Davidson was a few years back. Getting to two straight final games was admittedly a matter of good luck; being a consistently good tourney team was not. They're a much better program right now - and have been for the better part of a decade - than several BE teams.
As for facilities, Hinkle Fieldhouse can't be any worse than the Allstate Arena, and the Conseco Fieldhouse could be an option for some games (not unlike how Nova uses the Wells Fargo Arena when not playing in the Pavilion).
Quote from: Tribby on September 22, 2011, 03:46:26 PM
Value is relative. Given the opportunity, MU wouldn't trade places with XU. I think that's all you need to know.
No...but it is interesting how much money they generate.
Quote from: The Sultan of South Wayne on September 22, 2011, 03:51:36 PM
No...but it is interesting how much money they generate.
I suspect much of that is a result of them owning their own arena and therefore getting to keep all the revenues generated on game day.
Quote from: Pakuni on September 22, 2011, 03:54:54 PM
I suspect much of that is a result of them owning their own arena and therefore getting to keep all the revenues generated on game day.
Ah good point. But then do they count the building's amortization against the basketball revenue? I doubt it. But that doesn't mean that isn't worth it for them to own their own building.
I suspect it is because Xavier has generally gone farther in recent years in NCAA tournament then MU, before we beat them last year. Athlon's preseason prediction has MU playing two games in NCAA tournament and Xavier playing three.
Actually the value has nothing to do with on-court success. For instance, IU is top 10 in value. It has to do with the amount of money the program generates.
Quote from: The Sultan of South Wayne on September 22, 2011, 08:51:17 PM
Actually the value has nothing to do with on-court success. For instance, IU is top 10 in value. It has to do with the amount of money the program generates.
It has to have something to do with on-court success...indirectly for sure, directly through the NCAA tourney payouts. Obviously poor performing teams with rich histories and huge enrollments can still have value, but for a team like MU...on-court success helps pay the bills.