http://www.cbssports.com/#!/collegefootball/story/15607250/big-east-big-12-talk-merger-if-texas-oklahoma-leave-big-12
The Big East Twelve that has 18 teams? The Big 12 East? I'm interested in the 4-5 Big 12 teams and going as high as 10 football/18 total after some more expected departures, but if it results in invites to UCF and Memphis to get to 12 football schools and 20 members I'd rather the basketball only schools split and pick up 4-6 strong basketball programs.
Gary Parrish suggested a plan very similar to this earlier today.
http://www.cbssports.com/collegebasketball/story/15606543/pillaged-big-east-can-survive-if-it-follows-this-plan
I don't buy that Kansas, Mizzou, West Virginia and Louisville will be left out. SEC and B1G have to get to 16 somehow.
I don't understand why you would want Marquette to go to an all basketball conference.... The scraps of what is left over to make a fifth super-conference gets a seat at the table, in reality it remains very much the same as what it was before the reshuffling but with different names?
Are you telling me you would have rather been in the A-10 the last few years, because that is what you are talking about. The A10 is irrelevant to most everyone. MU is far better off served being in a nationally talked about (sports center) ext, than some lower level Bball only conference. This is why MU is denying even thinking of such talk.
So many theories out there it is insane.
But, Kansas, Memphis, Kansas St and Baylor taking over for Cuse, Pitt, UConn and Rutgers is close to a draw.
The Big America?
The Big Clusterf*ck?
I think there are 5 main questions that will cause all the chips to fall.
- Does the SEC go to 16 teams? (need 4 more)
- Does the Big 10 go to 16 teams? (need 4 more)
- Does the ACC go to 16 teams? (need 2 more)
- Does the PAC 10 go to 16 teams? (need 4 more)
- Does Notre Dame and/or Texas stay/go independent in football?
If all of those conferences try to go to 16, some of the last teams they add could fit in very oddly, and there will be a few left from the current "big" conferences.
IF they all decide to go 16, and Notre Dame decides to stay independant, but Texas doesn't (as currently is) how would some of these schools move around?
I just highlighted the teams moving around - just took a quick guess at some, seems like a mess getting the B10 and SEC to 16 teams each. moreso the b10
Big Ten
Wisconsin
Michigan
Michigan St.
Nebraska
Ohio St.
Iowa
Minnesota
Illinois
Northwestern
Indiana
Purdue
Penn St.
Missouri
TCU
Kansas
Kansas St
ACC
UNC
Duke
Wake Forest
NC St
Fla St
Virginia Tech
Virginia
Clemson
Miami
Pitt
Syracuse
Boston College
Maryland
Georgia Tech
UCONN
Rutgers
SEC
Florida
Kentucky
Tennessee
Georgia
South Carolina
Vanderbilt
Alabama
Auburn
Miss
Miss st
Arkansas
LSU
West Virginia
Texas A&M
Cincinnati
Louisville
PAC 12
Washington
Washington St
Oregon
Oregon St
UCLA
USC
Stanford
Arizona
Arizona St
Utah
Colorado
Cal
Texas
Texas Tech
Oklahoma
Oklahoma St
Big 12 / Big East leftovers
South Florida
Baylor
Iowa St
St. Johns
Notre Dame (basketball only)
Georgetown
Villanova
Providence
Seton Hall
Marquette
DePaul
I think the best is to hope the B10 stays at 12, SEC stops at 14 (A&M and WVU) and the Big 12 and Big East merge, like some rumors sound like, and you're left with Missouri, Kansas, Kansas St., TCU, Cincinnati, Louisville, South Florida, Baylor, and Iowa St. as football schools to go along with our 8 basketball-only schools. Then invite 3 more like Parrish suggests, just hopefully not Memphis.
Assuming Florida doesn't balk (and they might), USF to the SEC makes more sense than Cincy or Louisville. USF has upgraded its football too much in the past couple years to get left behind in a conference of basketball schools. I know Cincy and Ville have football too, but they'd be the geographical outlier(s). Plus, no way UK lets Louisville in. Maybe Florida blocks USF for the same reason, but seems less likely to me than UK allowing Louisville.
Quote from: Aughnanure on September 19, 2011, 04:43:29 PM
Gary Parrish suggested a plan very similar to this earlier today.
http://www.cbssports.com/collegebasketball/story/15606543/pillaged-big-east-can-survive-if-it-follows-this-plan
I don't buy that Kansas, Mizzou, West Virginia and Louisville will be left out. SEC and B1G have to get to 16 somehow.
Why do they have to get to 16? I could see the Big Tweleven being perfectly content at 12 unless ND or Texas are interested. Same with the SEC, they may want one more to get to 14 for symmetry (Mizzou and WVU can fight for that spot), but beyond that everyone else on the board just waters it down.
For the Pac-12, bringing in UT, Oklahoma and their tag-alongs (TTech and OSU) makes it worth expanding. For the ACC, adding Pitt, Cuse, UConn and Rutgers gives them the entire East Coast and adds value for the league as a whole. Plus, the ACC needed to expand for survival incase some of their schools got poached by the SEC.
Quote from: Tribby on September 19, 2011, 05:06:49 PM
Assuming Florida doesn't balk (and they might), USF to the SEC makes more sense than Cincy or Louisville. USF has upgraded its football too much in the past couple years to get left behind in a conference of basketball schools. I know Cincy and Ville have football too, but they'd be the geographical outlier(s). Plus, no way UK lets Louisville in. Maybe Florida blocks USF for the same reason, but seems less likely to me than UK allowing Louisville.
Absolutely no way does Florida let USF in. Florida already has multiple BCS football programs in its state, they'll tell UK to shut up and deal with having one more in theirs.
Since when is it quantity over quality in regards to the B1G (other conferences don't seem to care). The B1G is only going to add schools if the payouts per school increase.
The payout will increase regardless. Sports are the only event people watch live, not DVR with commercials skipped. Athletic events are about to become the premier television advertising property.
Quote from: Aughnanure on September 19, 2011, 06:08:38 PM
The payout will increase regardless. Sports are the only event people watch live, not DVR with commercials skipped. Athletic events are about to become the premier television advertising property.
That is not always the case. If so, Missouri would have been in the B1G a while ago (same with Rutgers).
Also, Jim Boeheim mentioned today that he did not know if payouts would keep increasing with the new ACC.
Quote from: Warriors10 on September 19, 2011, 06:31:19 PM
That is not always the case. If so, Missouri would have been in the B1G a while ago (same with Rutgers).
Also, Jim Boeheim mentioned today that he did not know if payouts would keep increasing with the new ACC.
The properties will consistently grow in worth, and will always be worth more than the last negotiation. If you are right, why did Nebraska moving to the B1G actually result in an increase in the tv value for the Big 12-2? These conferences, the larger they get, will only gain MORE leverage in their negotiations with tv networks. Think about it, there will only be 4 contracts for networks to negotiate with. They will drastically increase bids just to simply make sure they are still part of the game - Pitting NBC v Fox v ESPN/ABC v CBS against each other in negotiations is quite favorable and if there is no 5th or 6th legitimate conference they can demand even more.
Quote from: Aughnanure on September 19, 2011, 06:41:50 PM
The properties will consistently grow in worth, and will always be worth more than the last negotiation. If you are right, why did Nebraska moving to the B1G actually result in an increase in the tv value for the Big 12-2? These conferences, the larger they get, will only gain MORE leverage in their negotiations with tv networks. Think about it, there will only be 4 contracts for networks to negotiate with. They will drastically increase bids just to simply make sure they are still part of the game - Pitting NBC v Fox v ESPN/ABC v CBS against each other in negotiations is quite favorable and if there is no 5th or 6th legitimate conference they can demand even more.
Adding Syracuse football gives you enough leverage to make sure the payouts are greater than before? Remember you are splitting it 14 ways now, not 12.
Quote from: Aughnanure on September 19, 2011, 04:43:29 PM
Gary Parrish suggested a plan very similar to this earlier today.
http://www.cbssports.com/collegebasketball/story/15606543/pillaged-big-east-can-survive-if-it-follows-this-plan
I don't buy that Kansas, Mizzou, West Virginia and Louisville will be left out. SEC and B1G have to get to 16 somehow.
The Big Ten and the SEC do not *have* to go to 16 if new members don't bring any added value.
Quote from: Warrior1 on September 19, 2011, 04:48:13 PM
I don't understand why you would want Marquette to go to an all basketball conference.... The scraps of what is left over to make a fifth super-conference gets a seat at the table, in reality it remains very much the same as what it was before the reshuffling but with different names?
Are you telling me you would have rather been in the A-10 the last few years, because that is what you are talking about. The A10 is irrelevant to most everyone. MU is far better off served being in a nationally talked about (sports center) ext, than some lower level Bball only conference. This is why MU is denying even thinking of such talk.
Who knows where we end up. However, if the A-10 expanded to 19 teams by adding Marquette, Georgetown, Villanova, St John's and Notre Dame it would have a lot of good teams. Even if Notre Dame did not come and you added Providence. Yes, I am ignoring DePaul. My biggest fear is that somehow Georgetown and Villanova get invited to one of the football conferences. As long as we remained teamed with them, we will be okay.
Quote from: monkeyman34 on September 19, 2011, 05:02:36 PM
I think the best is to hope the B10 stays at 12, SEC stops at 14 (A&M and WVU) and the Big 12 and Big East merge, like some rumors sound like, and you're left with Missouri, Kansas, Kansas St., TCU, Cincinnati, Louisville, South Florida, Baylor, and Iowa St. as football schools to go along with our 8 basketball-only schools. Then invite 3 more like Parrish suggests, just hopefully not Memphis.
Yes, this would be excellent. Nice by monkeyman34.
Quote from: Warrior1 on September 19, 2011, 04:48:13 PM
I don't understand why you would want Marquette to go to an all basketball conference.... The scraps of what is left over to make a fifth super-conference gets a seat at the table, in reality it remains very much the same as what it was before the reshuffling but with different names?
I think I'd rather have an all-basketball conference, seeing as how MU doesn't have a football team. It would be in our best interest, and to maybe have a basketball conference that could come close to what the Big East used to be. If we're going all the way, why not?
Eh, this is all really crazy right now and too early to tell anyway. Oh well. Now the A10, that's something else..
Quote from: bilsu on September 19, 2011, 07:24:52 PM
Who knows where we end up. However, if the A-10 expanded to 19 teams by adding Marquette, Georgetown, Villanova, St John's and Notre Dame it would have a lot of good teams. Even if Notre Dame did not come and you added Providence. Yes, I am ignoring DePaul. My biggest fear is that somehow Georgetown and Villanova get invited to one of the football conferences. As long as we remained teamed with them, we will be okay.
Barring a really odd and unlikely scenario--the ACC inviting MU as a bball-only, for instance--you're wrong to ignore DePaul. We're tied to them for better or worse. It's far more likely that we end up in a conference with DePaul than with Georgetown or Villanova, if it comes down to an either/or.
Quote from: The Sultan of South Wayne on September 19, 2011, 07:19:07 PM
The Big Ten and the SEC do not *have* to go to 16 if new members don't bring any added value.
+1, and this will have a huge impact on MU. If the Big 10 and SEC don't feel the need to accept any remaining BEAST/Big 12 teams MU we'll be just fine.
What a clusterf*ck of a conference that would be.
Quote from: avid1010 on September 19, 2011, 08:10:22 PM
+1, and this will have a huge impact on MU. If the Big 10 and SEC don't feel the need to accept any remaining BEAST/Big 12 teams MU will be just fine.
Even if the conferences even out at 14, it is likely the ACC loses teams and then they will raid Big East again.
Quote from: Stone Cold on September 20, 2011, 12:49:01 AM
What a clusterf*ck of a conference that would be.
Couldn't agree more.
As far as the basketball-only vs basketball/football hybrid, there's pros and cons to each side.
In a basketball-only, we gain some security that we are driving the bus. Along with the likes of Georgetown, Providence, Villanova, and the other original Big East teams, we'd have a bit more clout going forward, and even down the road would at worst be an equal among new basketball-only schools like possibly Xavier, Dayton, Butler, and George Washington. However, the fear is that the new 16-team superconferences decide to BCS basketball as well. If we're on the outside looking in, we could end up screwed.
One argument I've heard is that a tournament would invite only an AQ from all the non-BCS conferences. That's roughly 24 bids. The other 40-44 bids would all go to the 4 BCS conferences. Possibly they'd allow a fifth BCS-level basketball-only conference, in which case we'd really want to be there, but the odds of them splitting the pie further than that seems unlikely. While lawsuits would likely ensue, the heavy-hitter football schools have already proven they can shut out most of the other schools and the NCAA itself when it comes to divvying up what they see as their money, so why not do it in basketball too?
That's the other positive to being in a basketball/football hybrid. If it does come to the BCS schools breaking off to create their own March Madness tournament, I'd rather be in a conference where they were going to include us from day one. Too many others have already been left on the outside looking in when it comes to football to make me think that they won't eventually try to do the same with basketball.
I don't know which is really better, but there's definitely negatives to trying to break off completely from the football schools at this point.
We need to be in a basketball/football hybrid conference. It's the only way of insuring some sort of relevancy. Gary Parrish at CBS has it right. Plus despite 2003 nightmares playing Kansas in a conference game is interesting.
If this merger does come to fruition the new league should seriously consider rotating the conference basketball championship. I live in New Jersey and seeing MU play at the Garden is great, but those B12 teams certainly are not going to send large contingencies of students and alums to the Garden every year. Perhaps alternating between Kansas City and the Garden would be ideal. I think it would create more cohesiveness in the league. I know, the Kansas home court advantage is different than the SJU home court advantage, but living here in the east and as successful as MU has been I always felt that even though we were in the league we were always the far midwest interloper. You go on the other boards: GT, Nova, PC we are hardly in the discussion. The league understandably has always been eastern myopic. If the schools from both conference are to remain relevent we must acknowledge the new geographical reality