I posted a similar thread about a year ago, but with Pitt and Syracuse bolting for the ACC and the Big East on shaky ground, MU might have to join forces with like-minded (Catholic) basketball-only schools. I'd also suggest including Butler, which is private but not Catholic (I'd swap Butler in and take Dayton out, but that's just me). All the schools are from large cities which could help with media and exposure. Here's some info on possible conference members:
Marquette University – Big East
Milwaukee, WI
Catholic – Jesuit
11,548 Students (8,048 undergraduates)
Facility: Bradley Center (19,000)
29 NCAA tournaments: 2011, 2010, 2009, 2008, 2007, 2006, 2003, 2002, 1997, 1996, 1994, 1993, 1983, 1982, 1980, 1979, 1978, 1977, 1976, 1975, 1974, 1973, 1972, 1971, 1969, 1961, 1959, 1955
9 Sweet 16's: 2011, 2003, 1994, 1979, 1977, 1976, 1974, 1969, 1955
5 Elite Eight's: 2003, 1977, 1976, 1974, 1969, 1955
3 Final Fours: 2003, 1977, 1974
1 Runner Up: 1974
1 Championship: 1977
DePaul University – Big East
Chicago, IL
Catholic – Congregation of the Mission (Vincentian)
25,072 students (16,199 undergraduates)
Facility: Allstate Arena (18,500)
22 NCAA tournaments: 2004, 2000, 1992, 1991, 1989*, 1988*, 1987*, 1986*, 1985, 1984, 1982, 1981, 1980, 1979, 1978, 1976, 1965, 1960, 1959, 1956, 1953, 1943 (* vacated by NCAA)
2 Final Fours: 1979, 1943
Villanova University – Big East
Philadelphia, PA
Catholic – Friars of the Order of St. Augustine
9,535 Students (6,425 undergraduates)
Facilities: The Pavilion (6,500 capacity) Wachovia Center (18,000+)
32 NCAA tournaments: 2011, 2010, 2009, 2008, 2007, 2006, 2005, 1999, 1997, 1996, 1995, 1991, 1990, 1988, 1986, 1985, 1984, 1983, 1982, 1981, 1980, 1978, 1972, 1971*, 1970, 1969, 1964, 1962, 1955, 1951, 1949, 1939 (*NCAA vacated)
18 Sweet 16's: 2009, 2008, 2006, 2005, 1988, 1985, 1983, 1982, 1978, 1972, 1971*, 1970, 1964, 1962, 1955, 1951, 1949, 1939
12 Elite Eight's: 2009, 2006, 1988, 1985, 1983, 1982, 1978, 1971*, 1970, 1962, 1949, 1939
4 Final Four's: 2009, 1985, 1971*, 1939
1 Runner Up: 1971*
Championship: 1985
Georgetown University – Big East
Washington, DC
Catholic – Jesuit
15,318 Students (7,092 undergraduates)
Facility: Verizon Center (20,600 capacity)
27 NCAA tournaments: 2011, 2010, 2008, 2007, 2006, 2001, 1997, 1996, 1995, 1994, 1992, 1991, 1990, 1989, 1988, 1987, 1986, 1985, 1984, 1983, 1982, 1981, 1980, 1979, 1976, 1975, 1943
11 Sweet 16's: 2007, 2006, 2001, 1996, 1995, 1989, 1987, 1985, 1984, 1982, 1980
7 Elite Eight's: 2007, 1996, 1989, 1987, 1985, 1984, 1980
5 Final Four's: 2007, 1985, 1984, 1982, 1943
3 Runner Up's: 1985, 1982, 1943
Championship: 1984
Providence University – Big East
Providence, RI
Catholic – Dominican Friars
5,806 Students (3,938 undergraduates)
Facility: Dunkin Donuts Center (12,500 capacity)
15 NCAA tournaments: 2004, 2001, 1997, 1994, 1990, 1989, 1987, 1978, 1977, 1974, 1973, 1972, 1966, 1965, 1964
5 Sweet 16's: 1997, 1987, 1974, 1973, 1965
4 Elite Eight's: 1997, 1987, 1973, 1965
2 Final Four's: 1987, 1973
Seton Hall University – Big East
South Orange, NJ
Catholic – Archdiocese of Newark
9,800 Students (5,300 undergraduates)
Facility: Prudential Center (18,500)
9 NCAA tournaments: 2006, 2004, 2000, 1994, 1993, 1992, 1991, 1989, 1988
4 Sweet 16's: 2000, 1992, 1991, 1989
2 Elite Eight's: 1991, 1989
1 Final Four: 1989
1 Runner Up: 1989
St. John's University – Big East
New York, NY (Queens)
Catholic – Congregation of the Mission (Vincentians)
21,346 Students (15,092 undergraduates)
Facilities: Carnesecca Arena (6,008) Madison Square Garden (20,000)
27 NCAA tournament's: 2011, 2002, 2000, 1999, 1998, 1993, 1992, 1991, 1990, 1988, 1987, 1986, 1985, 1984, 1983, 1982, 1980, 1979, 1978, 1977, 1976, 1973, 1969, 1968, 1967, 1961, 1952, 1951
6 Elite Eight's: 1999, 1991, 1985, 1979, 1952, 1951
2 Final Four's: 1985, 1952
1 Runner Up: 1952
Xavier University – A-10
Cincinnati, OH
Catholic – Jesuit
6,966 Students (4,228 undergraduates)
Facility: Cintas Center (10,250)
22 NCAA tournaments: 2011, 2010, 2009, 2008, 2007, 2006, 2004, 2003, 2002, 2001, 1998, 1997, 1995, 1993, 1991, 1990, 1989, 1988, 1987, 1986, 1983, 1961
5 Sweet 16's: 2010, 2009, 2008, 2004, 1990
2 Elite Eights: 2008, 2004
Dayton University – A-10
Dayton, OH
Catholic – Society of Mary (Marianists)
11,000 Students (7,500 undergraduates)
Facility: UD Arena (13,455)
14 NCAA tournaments: 2009, 2004, 2003, 2000, 1990, 1985, 1984, 1974, 1970, 1969, 1967, 1966, 1965, 1952
6 Sweet 16's: 1984, 1974, 1967, 1966, 1965, 1952
3 Elite Eight's: 1984, 1967
1 Final Four: 1967
1 Runner Up: 1967
Duquesne University – A-10
Pittsburgh, PA
Catholic – Congregation of the Holy Spirit
10,363 Students (5,858 undergraduates)
Facility: A.J. Palumbo Center (5,358 capacity)
5 NCAA tournaments: 1977, 1971, 1969, 1952, 1940
1 Final Four (1940)
St. Louis University – A-10
St. Louis, MO
Catholic – Jesuit
12,700 Students (7,800 undergraduates)
Facility: Chaifetz Arena (10,600) Dedicated in 2008
6 NCAA tournaments: 2000, 1998, 1995, 1994, 1957, 1952
University of Detroit Mercy – Horizon
Detroit, MI
Catholic – Jesuit
5,700 Students
Facility: Calihan Hall (8,295 capacity)
5 NCAA tournaments: 1999, 1998, 1979, 1977, 1962
1 Sweet 16: 1977
*Butler University – Horizon*
Indianapolis, IN
Private - Founded by attorney and abolitionist Ovid Butler
4,512 Students (3,897 undergraduates)
Facility: Hinkle Fieldhouse (10,000 capacity)
11 NCAA tournaments: 2011, 2010, 2009, 2008, 2007, 2003, 2001, 2000, 1998, 1997, 1962
5 Sweet 16's: 2011, 2010, 2007, 2003, 1962
2 Elite Eights: 2011, 2010
2 Final Fours: 2011, 2010
2 Runner-Ups: 2011, 2010
13 teams isn't going to fly.
Take Butler out and the even number is good.
I think ND should go to the Big 1o, but if they don't they'll fit well in this conference esp if FB is still independent.
When was the last time Detroit Mercy was ever relevant? I understand the idea of keeping the Catholic schools together, but a line has to be drawn somewhere. Before we know it the conference champ is going to receive the golden chalice, the poy is going to be the choir boy of the year, and the conference champ gives the pope a jersey. What would make a top recruit want to play in this conference as opposed to the current Big East?
Quote from: 77ncaachamps on September 19, 2011, 12:01:44 AM
13 teams isn't going to fly.
Take Butler out and the even number is good.
I think ND should go to the Big 1o, but if they don't they'll fit well in this conference esp if FB is still independent.
I agree, that's why I have Butler in ** - to swap in for Dayton to make it an even 12. (Others may want to swap out other teams, I just think Xavier already covers the Cincinnati/Dayton market.)
Quote from: chris4381 on September 19, 2011, 12:09:47 AM
When was the last time Detroit Mercy was ever relevant? I understand the idea of keeping the Catholic schools together, but a line has to be drawn somewhere. Before we know it the conference champ is going to receive the golden chalice, the poy is going to be the choir boy of the year, and the conference champ gives the pope a jersey. What would make a top recruit want to play in this conference as opposed to the current Big East?
This proposal is only if the current Big East dissolves, which seems very likely after this weekend. I would love for the Big East to stay together.
As for Detroit-Mercy, they have a good coach and some young guys that could help them make some noise this upcoming season. They haven't done much lately, but they did have some good years in the late 90's. I included them mainly because of the Detroit market and the exposure that would help with recruits in that region.
University of Notre Dame
Georgetown University
Marquette University
Villanova University
George Washington University
DePaul University
Seton Hall University
St. John's University
Providence College
University of Dayton
St. Joseph's University
Xavier University
Butler University
Loyola University
---
I was hoping more along the lines of that. 14 teams, mostly catholic, all private.
Gonzaga and Creighton would be good options as well.
Has Mid-Major written all over it.
Quote from: Boozemon Barro on September 19, 2011, 12:38:46 AM
Gonzaga and Creighton would be good options as well.
Gonzaga is too far an outlier to be included. Remember, this is for more than basketball.
I definitely think it's time to start thinking for ourselves. I've been fearing this for awhile, but didn't think it'd happen so soon. I really hope we can make a very, very inhospitable atmosphere when Pittsburgh visits in January. Regardless, I think either a 10-team or 12-team league is ideal. With 10, you get home-and-homes across the board and an 18-game schedule, with 12 you probably have 2 divisions for home-and-homes, games against everyone, and a 16-game schedule. The advantage is more media markets. So with markets in mind, here's my ideal 12-team conference:
EAST
St. John's (#1 New York)
Villanova (#4 Philadelphia)
Boston University (#7 Boston/Manchester)
Georgetown (#9 Washington DC)
Providence (#52 Providence/New Bedford)
Seton Hall (Reinforces NYC, Big East tradition)
WEST
DePaul (#3 Chicago)
Detroit-Mercy (#11 Detroit)
St. Louis (#21 St. Louis)
Xavier (#34 Cincinnati)
Marquette (#35 Milwaukee)
Notre Dame (#89 South Bend, but it is ND)
I realize there are a few non-traditional names on my list. First and foremost is Boston University. They've had some basketball success in the 2000s, but are more known for their hockey team. However, this is about market size. Without BC, we could really use a way to get back into a top-10 market. I considered UMass, who I think is much more desirable, but they are going D1 in football next year, so I left them out for the same reason I left Temple out (well, that and we already have the Philly market covered with 'Nova).
Next, I don't think anyone argues against Seton Hall or Notre Dame, but they don't exactly bring in major markets themselves. However, both are also current Big East teams and I don't want to leave anyone out in the cold like the football schools are doing to us. Guess I'd call it a conscience. In addition, SHU reinforces New York (since Newark pretty much shares the same media market) and Notre Dame reinforces Chicago as well as the state of Indiana. They'll be an added draw wherever our league is on television.
Detroit-Mercy may not be a popular pick, but they do bring a big television market. They have a coach and some players that are up-and-coming, and frankly, I weighed them against a school like Butler and they just make a little more sense. I know Butler is hot right now, but if Stevens leaves, what happens to them? They're just a weak sister, whereas UDM would seem to have more of a chance of surviving and thriving in this conference when you consider their media market.
Other schools I considered, and that would have to be considered if the league were larger (or if ND bolted to the Big Tweleven) were UMass, Duquesne, George Washington, Dayton, Butler, Cleveland State, Creighton, and Gonzaga. The reasons I left teams out were D1 football (UMass, Temple), overlapping TV markets (George Washington, Dayton), not enough long-term value (Butler, Cleveland State), and simple distance (Creighton, Gonzaga).
Quote from: chris4381 on September 19, 2011, 12:09:47 AM
When was the last time Detroit Mercy was ever relevant? I understand the idea of keeping the Catholic schools together,
Really? Cause I don't. To me, the schools that we are left with are schools that just happen to be Catholic...and we shouldn't use that historical coincidence to determine who are future partners should be. Brew's suggestions are good but I would rather have Butler and Richmond instead of Detroit and BU.
Quote from: The Sultan of South Wayne on September 19, 2011, 07:59:32 AMReally? Cause I don't. To me, the schools that we are left with are schools that just happen to be Catholic...and we shouldn't use that historical coincidence to determine who are future partners should be. Brew's suggestions are good but I would rather have Butler and Richmond instead of Detroit and BU.
Richmond's another good option, their market (#58) is a bit lower than I'd like, but they're still solid. My main thought is that big-market teams can adapt to being in a successful conference. I think places like Boston and Detroit would be able to flourish, and survive the dips (like DePaul is doing...seem to be improving, albeit slowly, with Purnell). What happens to a Richmond or Butler when their coach leaves? Will they survive, or just become another Horizon/CAA also-ran?
Of course, I was also a broadcasting major with a focus in television, so maybe I'm overly biased in that regard.
Oh...and I'm with Sultan on the Catholic schools. Who cares? We're looking at long-term viability, not sentimentality. Seton Hall is about as far as sentiment will get me, maybe Providence, but they have proven to be leaders in the Big East over the years and I think have value beyond their market size. I'd take public schools like UMass if I thought they could get us the long-term stability we need.
I just find it hard to believe that perennial conference winners such as Butler or Gonzaga would see joining a water down Big East as a good idea. They do not need us and joining us could end up being a step back for them, if they do not win enough to get to NCAA tournament. I see Xavier as a possibility, but why should they leave a conference they are also having good success in? I think Xavier and Dayton will stick together, no matter what happens. There was a time they both felt looked down upon, because they did not go to Big East. In the end, it might turn out, to be the best thing that happen to them.
Quote from: bilsu on September 19, 2011, 08:18:47 AM
I just find it hard to believe that perennial conference winners such as Butler or Gonzaga would see joining a water down Big East as a good idea. They do not need us and joining us could end up being a step back for them, if they do not win enough to get to NCAA tournament. I see Xavier as a possibility, but why should they leave a conference they are also having good success in? I think Xavier and Dayton will stick together, no matter what happens. There was a time they both felt looked down upon, because they did not go to Big East. In the end, it might turn out, to be the best thing that happen to them.
The problem is that Butler and Gonzaga will feel the squeeze or the need to join a conference
just in case the NCAA loses the BCS schools.
Quote from: brewcity77 on September 19, 2011, 06:56:09 AM
I definitely think it's time to start thinking for ourselves. I've been fearing this for awhile, but didn't think it'd happen so soon. I really hope we can make a very, very inhospitable atmosphere when Pittsburgh visits in January. Regardless, I think either a 10-team or 12-team league is ideal. With 10, you get home-and-homes across the board and an 18-game schedule, with 12 you probably have 2 divisions for home-and-homes, games against everyone, and a 16-game schedule. The advantage is more media markets. So with markets in mind, here's my ideal 12-team conference:
EAST
St. John's (#1 New York)
Villanova (#4 Philadelphia)
Boston University (#7 Boston/Manchester)
Georgetown (#9 Washington DC)
Providence (#52 Providence/New Bedford)
Seton Hall (Reinforces NYC, Big East tradition)
WEST
DePaul (#3 Chicago)
Detroit-Mercy (#11 Detroit)
St. Louis (#21 St. Louis)
Xavier (#34 Cincinnati)
Marquette (#35 Milwaukee)
Notre Dame (#89 South Bend, but it is ND)
I realize there are a few non-traditional names on my list. First and foremost is Boston University. They've had some basketball success in the 2000s, but are more known for their hockey team. However, this is about market size. Without BC, we could really use a way to get back into a top-10 market. I considered UMass, who I think is much more desirable, but they are going D1 in football next year, so I left them out for the same reason I left Temple out (well, that and we already have the Philly market covered with 'Nova).
Next, I don't think anyone argues against Seton Hall or Notre Dame, but they don't exactly bring in major markets themselves. However, both are also current Big East teams and I don't want to leave anyone out in the cold like the football schools are doing to us. Guess I'd call it a conscience. In addition, SHU reinforces New York (since Newark pretty much shares the same media market) and Notre Dame reinforces Chicago as well as the state of Indiana. They'll be an added draw wherever our league is on television.
Detroit-Mercy may not be a popular pick, but they do bring a big television market. They have a coach and some players that are up-and-coming, and frankly, I weighed them against a school like Butler and they just make a little more sense. I know Butler is hot right now, but if Stevens leaves, what happens to them? They're just a weak sister, whereas UDM would seem to have more of a chance of surviving and thriving in this conference when you consider their media market.
Other schools I considered, and that would have to be considered if the league were larger (or if ND bolted to the Big Tweleven) were UMass, Duquesne, George Washington, Dayton, Butler, Cleveland State, Creighton, and Gonzaga. The reasons I left teams out were D1 football (UMass, Temple), overlapping TV markets (George Washington, Dayton), not enough long-term value (Butler, Cleveland State), and simple distance (Creighton, Gonzaga).
Market size is kind of irrelevant when nobody in your market - much less nationally - cares about you, i.e. Detroit, Boston U. Including those kinds of programs, quite frankly, makes the conference appear small-time.
A conference with higher profile schools/programs, even in smaller markets, would be far preferable, such as Gonzaga (though travel costs could be a deal killer), Butler, Creighton, GW.
Honestly, I'm not sure why people around here continue to write off Butler as possibility. They're not a two-year flash in the pan. While their current level of success is unsustainable (probably for anyone), they've made the tourney 11 of the past 14 years, getting past the first round six times. They're in a better basketball market than Detroit or Boston U. and are far more committed to the program.
Both Richmond and Butler have seen several successful coaches leave in recent years and they've continued to thrive.
I'm a proud season-ticket holder of a Horizon League school. That being said, why do you want Marquette to form a league with Detroit or Loyola.
Quote from: mupanther on September 19, 2011, 08:30:50 AM
I'm a proud season-ticket holder of a Horizon League school. That being said, why do you want Marquette to form a league with Detroit or Loyola.
Exactly. I would rather be in a highly competitive league instead of being in a crappy catholic league.
Will Notre dame stay? Thats a HUGE plus if they are in this conference. This, even at 16 teams doesn't look too bad.
St. John's
UMass
Seton Hall
Providence
Georgetown
Villanova
Charlotte
Richmond
Notre Dame
Xavier
Dayton
Butler
Marquette
DePaul
St. Louis
Creighton
I just wonder what will happen to schools like BYU, Gonzaga, UNLV and Memphis and if they could be part of the conference if geography can be worked out (Wichita St, Air Force help?).
Quote from: Aughnanure on September 19, 2011, 08:53:17 AM
Will Notre dame stay? Thats a HUGE plus if they are in this conference. This, even at 16 teams doesn't look too bad.
St. John's
UMass
Seton Hall
Providence
Georgetown
Villanova
Charlotte
Richmond
Notre Dame
Xavier
Dayton
Butler
Marquette
DePaul
St. Louis
Creighton
I just wonder what will happen to schools like BYU, Gonzaga, UNLV and Memphis and if they could be part of the conference if geography can be worked out (Wichita St, Air Force help?).
Replace Creighton with Memphis. Creighton stinks.
Quote from: Hards_Alumni on September 19, 2011, 08:56:41 AM
Replace Creighton with Memphis. Creighton stinks.
That would force Memphis to be an independent in football.
An issue with some of the schools will be the sports they offer versus what the others in the potential league offer. I have not investigated that, but ND, I believe, offers a significant number of more sports than the majority on that list. That could prohibit (or at least influence) ND with the conference choice.
Quote from: MUMac on September 19, 2011, 08:59:12 AM
That would force Memphis to be an independent in football.
+1
Kansas is the obvious choice, imo.
Quote from: Hards_Alumni on September 19, 2011, 08:56:41 AM
Replace Creighton with Memphis. Creighton stinks.
No Creighton does not "stink." They average top-15 attendance every year and deserve to be in such a conference more so than Richmond, Detroit, , Duquense, etc., and others people throw out all the time. Plus a top-25 baseball program.
Quote from: Hards_Alumni on September 19, 2011, 08:24:40 AM
The problem is that Butler and Gonzaga will feel the squeeze or the need to join a conference just in case the NCAA loses the BCS schools.
Gonzaga is already in a RECENTLY great Basketball only conference, the WCC.
http://www.thenovablog.com/2011/9/19/2434449/acc-commissioner-john-swofford-villanova-acc (http://www.thenovablog.com/2011/9/19/2434449/acc-commissioner-john-swofford-villanova-acc)
To me this is a long shot, but we are screwed even more if it happens.
A prerequisite of any basketball conference needs to be the school has to spend X million on its basketball program. If Detroit, Loyola, and Duquense, etc. were to commit on that threshold they should be added.
Baylor is a possibility too, IMO
Detroit is a nice big market, but I can tell you after living in Detroit that 95% of the area's residents don't care about Detroit-Mercy. The only school that matters to the Detroit media market is the University of Michigan.
I'd take Gonzaga over Detroit-Mercy, even with the travel.
Quote from: bilsu on September 19, 2011, 08:18:47 AM
I just find it hard to believe that perennial conference winners such as Butler or Gonzaga would see joining a water down Big East as a good idea. They do not need us and joining us could end up being a step back for them, if they do not win enough to get to NCAA tournament. I see Xavier as a possibility, but why should they leave a conference they are also having good success in?
If this logic were at work, most of this conference reshuffling wound't be happening. Nebraska, Utah, Texas A&M, etc., all were having "good success" in their respective former conferences, yet all jumpd at the opportunity to bail ... even though, in the latter two cases, it probably means fewer wins. Same with Pitt. That program had a decent shot at a BCS bowl every year in the Big East. In the ACC, they'll quickly be relegated to also rans.
None of this is about winning or on-field/on-court success. It's about money, mostly TV money. And for programs like Xavier, Butler, etc., there's a heck of a lot more TV money to be made in a conference with Villanova, Georgetown, St. John's and Marquette, than there is with St. Bonaventure, LaSalle, Duquesne, Cleveland State, Youngstown State and Fordham.
Quote from: Warriors10 on September 19, 2011, 09:16:41 AM
http://www.thenovablog.com/2011/9/19/2434449/acc-commissioner-john-swofford-villanova-acc (http://www.thenovablog.com/2011/9/19/2434449/acc-commissioner-john-swofford-villanova-acc)
To me this is a long shot, but we are screwed even more if it happens.
Then we should apply for Big 10/12 whatever membership. How big is Northwestern compared to MU?
It has to be all basketball only (meaning no football) schools. You can't be put in a predicament of being in a conference with someone like Kansas, who will have one eye out the door from the get go.
I know they're not all Catholic, but I'm going with Catholic USA
My proposal: Four 4 team divisions (16 total teams)
West
Gonzaga
St. Mary's
(2 from Santa Clara, Pepperdine, Loyola Maramount, San Francisco)
Midwest
Marquette
DePaul
Butler
Creighton
Mideast
Villanova
St. Joe's
Dayton
Xavier
East
Georgetown
Providence
St. John's
Seton Hall
Schedule would be play division foes twice, everyone else once (18 game conf schedule). When going out west, teams from the east play both opponents on the same road trip (Thursday/Saturday schedule).
Get creative with the conference tourney. Have it some place exotic like Maui or St. Thomas (use it as a selling point to recruits).
Quote from: muwarrior69 on September 19, 2011, 09:59:14 AM
Then we should apply for Big 10/12 whatever membership. How big is Northwestern compared to MU?
Size doesn't matter (ha!) but we don't really fit in.
As a side note, that article scared the pants off of me.
Losing Villanova would be horrific. A conference with Marquette, Nova, Gtown, and Xavier would have a hard time being considered mid major. Thats 4 teams that more than likely will be top-25 year in and out. Add SJU and Richmond who are both up and coming and potentially top 25 teams going forward and thats a strong base. Thats not even considering Butler. Its not the current BE, but its not the MCC or even old C-USA.
Quote from: Hards_Alumni on September 19, 2011, 10:12:33 AM
Size doesn't matter (ha!) but we don't really fit in.
As a side note, that article scared the pants off of me.
If Nova is a fit for the ACC, then why are we not a fit for the Big 10? We certainly could compete in that conference and very well. Nothing ventured...
Quote from: MUDish on September 19, 2011, 10:11:26 AM
It has to be all basketball only (meaning no football) schools. You can't be put in a predicament of being in a conference with someone like Kansas, who will have one eye out the door from the get go.
I know they're not all Catholic, but I'm going with Catholic USA
My proposal: Four 4 team divisions (16 total teams)
West
Gonzaga
St. Mary's
(2 from Santa Clara, Pepperdine, Loyola Maramount, San Francisco)
Midwest
Marquette
DePaul
Butler
Creighton
Mideast
Villanova
St. Joe's
Dayton
Xavier
East
Georgetown
Providence
St. John's
Seton Hall
Schedule would be play division foes twice, everyone else once (18 game conf schedule). When going out west, teams from the east play both opponents on the same road trip (Thursday/Saturday schedule).
Get creative with the conference tourney. Have it some place exotic like Maui or St. Thomas (use it as a selling point to recruits).
I like the conference tourney idea, but as long as the ACC doesn't steal the MSG's thunder - I think sticking with that for as long as possible is the best option.
For your West division option, I wonder what opportunities schools like BYU, UNLV would have. St. Mary's should not be considered. San Francisco and Pepperdine have excellent all-around athletic programs though.
No way, you let St. Joe's in. Villanova doesnt want to share Philly. The only way we double-up on a market is through Xavier-Dayton and thats mainly because Dayton has proven they are a rabid and loyal fan base.
Quote from: muwarrior69 on September 19, 2011, 10:26:35 AM
If Nova is a fit for the ACC, then why are we not a fit for the Big 10? We certainly could compete in that conference and very well. Nothing ventured...
Nova has a football program. Not one that today is ready to compete at a FBS level, but obviously much farther along than MU.
Why would the Big 1? want to add a non football member?
http://www.jsonline.com/blogs/sports/130122113.html
Catholic schools teleconference. Discussing a possible Catholic conference?
Quote from: brewcity77 on September 19, 2011, 06:56:09 AM
I definitely think it's time to start thinking for ourselves. I've been fearing this for awhile, but didn't think it'd happen so soon. I really hope we can make a very, very inhospitable atmosphere when Pittsburgh visits in January. Regardless, I think either a 10-team or 12-team league is ideal. With 10, you get home-and-homes across the board and an 18-game schedule, with 12 you probably have 2 divisions for home-and-homes, games against everyone, and a 16-game schedule. The advantage is more media markets. So with markets in mind, here's my ideal 12-team conference:
EAST
St. John's (#1 New York)
Villanova (#4 Philadelphia)
Boston University (#7 Boston/Manchester)
Georgetown (#9 Washington DC)
Providence (#52 Providence/New Bedford)
Seton Hall (Reinforces NYC, Big East tradition)
WEST
DePaul (#3 Chicago)
Detroit-Mercy (#11 Detroit)
St. Louis (#21 St. Louis)
Xavier (#34 Cincinnati)
Marquette (#35 Milwaukee)
Notre Dame (#89 South Bend, but it is ND)
I realize there are a few non-traditional names on my list. First and foremost is Boston University. They've had some basketball success in the 2000s, but are more known for their hockey team. However, this is about market size. Without BC, we could really use a way to get back into a top-10 market. I considered UMass, who I think is much more desirable, but they are going D1 in football next year, so I left them out for the same reason I left Temple out (well, that and we already have the Philly market covered with 'Nova).
Next, I don't think anyone argues against Seton Hall or Notre Dame, but they don't exactly bring in major markets themselves. However, both are also current Big East teams and I don't want to leave anyone out in the cold like the football schools are doing to us. Guess I'd call it a conscience. In addition, SHU reinforces New York (since Newark pretty much shares the same media market) and Notre Dame reinforces Chicago as well as the state of Indiana. They'll be an added draw wherever our league is on television.
Detroit-Mercy may not be a popular pick, but they do bring a big television market. They have a coach and some players that are up-and-coming, and frankly, I weighed them against a school like Butler and they just make a little more sense. I know Butler is hot right now, but if Stevens leaves, what happens to them? They're just a weak sister, whereas UDM would seem to have more of a chance of surviving and thriving in this conference when you consider their media market.
Other schools I considered, and that would have to be considered if the league were larger (or if ND bolted to the Big Tweleven) were UMass, Duquesne, George Washington, Dayton, Butler, Cleveland State, Creighton, and Gonzaga. The reasons I left teams out were D1 football (UMass, Temple), overlapping TV markets (George Washington, Dayton), not enough long-term value (Butler, Cleveland State), and simple distance (Creighton, Gonzaga).
What you have there IS A LEAGUE NOBODY WOULD GIVE A CRAP ABOUT!
Did you watch the Marquette Boston game last night...No I was too busy pulling my toenails out.
Quote from: universitypark on September 21, 2011, 03:13:28 PM
What you have there IS A LEAGUE NOBODY WOULD GIVE A CRAP ABOUT!
Did you watch the Marquette Boston game last night...No I was too busy pulling my toenails out.
Oh yeah, maybe I should focus my efforts on convincing Marquette to start football.
Maybe you should.
Is a Marquette / Boston game any worse than a Marquette / Rutgers game??? Nope.
I did not realize that DePaul was that much bigger than us.
Quote from: The Sultan of South Wayne on September 21, 2011, 03:30:37 PM
Is a Marquette / Boston game any worse than a Marquette / Rutgers game??? Nope.
Yep.
Rutgers is an improving program that's played in a major conference for two decades, averages 5,600 fans per game (not good, but I could name Big 1?, ACC and Pac-12 teams that draw worse) and even has a small history of NCAA success, i.e. the 1976 Final Four. Also gives MU an occasional presence in an area with lots of talented high school hoopsters.
Boston U. basketball isn't even the biggest winter sport on its campus - not even close - plays in a low-major conference and averaged a whopping 979 fans per game last year.
If we're trying to get Gonzaga and make a national conference...assuming BYU, Notre Dame stay Indy.
West
Gonzaga (Washington)
UNLV (Las Vegas)
BYU (Salt Lake City)
San Francisco (San Francisco)
Pepperdine (Southern California)
Plains
Memphis (Memphis)
Marquette (Milwaukee)
Wichita St (Wichita)
St. Louis (St. Louis)
Creighton (Omaha)
Midwest
Notre Dame (Everywhere)
Xavier (Cincinnati)
DePaul (Chicago)
Butler (Indianapolis)
Dayton (Dayton)
East
Georgetown (DC)
Villanova (Philadelphia)
St. John's (New York)
Providence (Providence)
Seton Hall (Newark)
Quote from: Pakuni on September 21, 2011, 04:10:01 PM
Yep.
Rutgers is an improving program that's played in a major conference for two decades, averages 5,600 fans per game (not good, but I could name Big 1?, ACC and Pac-12 teams that draw worse) and even has a small history of NCAA success, i.e. the 1976 Final Four. Also gives MU an occasional presence in an area with lots of talented high school hoopsters.
Boston U. basketball isn't even the biggest winter sport on its campus - not even close - plays in a low-major conference and averaged a whopping 979 fans per game last year.
<yawn> Rutgers has been an "improving program" for the last 20 years.
I'd rather have a smaller, stronger conference than a watered-down, national conference.
Marquette
St. Louis
Notre Dame
Xavier
DePaul
Butler
Dayton
Georgetown
Villanova
St. John's
Providence
Seton Hall
People have been calling Rutgers a 'sleeping giant' for the past 30 years. Clearly, this giant overdosed on Ambien. Plus, we wont know for awhile how the new BE will appeal to recruits. Recruiting wont get stronger but hopefully it stays the same. One could make a case that it drops a bit across the conference. If that's the case, Rutgers will be sleeping a lot longer.
Rutgers 1976 = Jammin' James Bailey.
And that's about it for that program.
Quote from: MerrittsMustache on September 21, 2011, 04:16:00 PM
I'd rather have a smaller, stronger conference than a watered-down, national conference.
Marquette
St. Louis
Notre Dame
Xavier
DePaul
Butler
Dayton
Georgetown
Villanova
St. John's
Providence
Seton Hall
Agree but 12 is the absolute lowest we can go. That may force us getting used to seasons where less than 4 teams get an NCAA bid. If we go to 16 it may be 6-7, maybe 8 in a great year. Thats big, because it'll hard for fans to stay interested and believe if they have to be top 3-4 to get a chance at the NCCAs (which will be owned by GTown, St. John's, Nova and Marq).
I think going to 16 and splitting into 4 pods/divisions gives fans something to fight for, instead of seeing their name listed 8th out of 2 teams.
Also, being THE national basketball conference can be something to sell the league on. It'll be hard though if UNLV, UMass and Memphis look other places b/c of football.
Quote from: The Sultan of South Wayne on September 21, 2011, 04:12:43 PM
<yawn> Rutgers has been an "improving program" for the last 20 years.
Rutgers at their very worst is still a better conference opponent for MU than the mighty Terriers and their 979 fans.
Quote from: The Sultan of South Wayne on September 21, 2011, 04:12:43 PM
<yawn> Rutgers has been an "improving program" for the last 20 years.
And it's been a better program than BU that entire time.
Here's last years attendance figures for some of the schools being mentioned lately:
Memphis - 16,768
Creighton - 13,507
Dayton - 12,567
Xavier - 10,098
Butler - 7,178
VCU - 6,645
UCF - 6,370
SLU - 6,299
Richmond - 5,959
Temple - 5,925
George Mason - 5,896
ECU - 4,566
URI - 4,537
St. Joe's - 4,405
Duquesne - 3,899
UMass - 3,300
Houston - 3,281
Detroit - 2,474
BU - 979 (yep, nine hundred)
Some other schools of interest for comparison:
Seton Hall - 7,937
DePaul - 7,676
Providence - 7,043
Rutgers - 5,602
USF - 4,230
UWM - 4,154
UWGB - 3,007
Quote from: Aughnanure on September 21, 2011, 04:22:56 PM
Agree but 12 is the absolute lowest we can go. That may force us getting used to seasons where less than 4 teams get an NCAA bid. If we go to 16 it may be 6-7, maybe 8 in a great year. Thats big, because it'll hard for fans to stay interested and believe if they have to be top 3-4 to get a chance at the NCCAs (which will be owned by GTown, St. John's, Nova and Marq).
I think going to 16 and splitting into 4 pods/divisions gives fans something to fight for, instead of seeing their name listed 8th out of 2 teams.
Also, being THE national basketball conference can be something to sell the league on. It'll be hard though if UNLV, UMass and Memphis look other places b/c of football.
Why is 12 the absolute lowest we can go? I'm perfectly fine with 10. A league of MU, Nova, G-town, ND, Butler, Xavier, St. Johns, Providence, Seton Hall and Depaul would consistently produce 5-6 bids/year. Why dilute it down past that?
From a purely selfish perspective, I'd like to see Marquette coming to town to play Cleveland State on a fairly regular basis. So, throw them into the mix of our fictional conference.
Quote from: Litehouse on September 21, 2011, 04:32:30 PM
Here's last years attendance figures for some of the schools being mentioned lately:
Creighton - 13,507
Dayton - 12,567
Xavier - 10,098
Butler - 7,178
VCU - 6,645
UCF - 6,370
SLU - 6,299
Richmond - 5,959
Temple - 5,925
George Mason - 5,896
CU - 4,566
URI - 4,537
St. Joe's - 4,405
Duquesne - 3,899
UMass - 3,300
Houston - 3,281
Detroit - 2,474
BU - 979 (yep, nine hundred)
Some other schools of interest for comparison:
Seton Hall - 7,937
DePaul - 7,676
Providence - 7,043
Rutgers - 5,602
USF - 4,230
UWM - 4,154
UWGB - 3,007
Dayton's capacity is 13,455 so they almost sell-out every game, on average. Plus, they play on campus and their game day environment is actually a lot of fun. With stronger competition, they would sell-out most of their home games.
Quote from: humanlung on September 21, 2011, 04:16:41 PM
Rutgers 1976 = Jammin' James Bailey.
And that's about it for that program.
Not true. Lloyd Moore ended up there after leaving MU.
I love Butler as a basketball add, but please stop referring to them as a Catholic school! (They were founded by a Christian group but are non-sectarian.)
Quote from: dwaderoy2004 on September 21, 2011, 04:37:22 PM
Why is 12 the absolute lowest we can go? I'm perfectly fine with 10. A league of MU, Nova, G-town, ND, Butler, Xavier, St. Johns, Providence, Seton Hall and Depaul would consistently produce 5-6 bids/year. Why dilute it down past that?
But this isn't the Big East anymore, teams with .500 records in conference are not going. Its too dense, most teams would just beat each other up and lower the opinions of the conference as a whole. Plus, the league also won't have as much respect at least in the first years, so if the teams don't beat the BCS teams in the OOC games, it will be hard to comeback from that in conference play. If MU, GTown and Nova are disappointing in the OOC, it'll hard for teams in to lose to them and make an argument for the NCAA.
Great leagues get half their league in. The BCS leagues typically get 4-6 bids out of 10-12 teams. This league will start in an underdog position and will have to earn that respect, unfortunately, and a few down years in OOC will have a bad impact.
Plus, I think divisions are more fun...more storylines, develops rivalries, more reason for fans to follow.
BrewCity has several posts on this that are much better at explaining why. 12 is fine, but 10
A lot of posters here do not seem to realize that we need some bottom feeders to beat up on.