Per ESPN Bottom Line.
Combine with any other thread if this has been posted anywhere else.
Not good. If the Cuse & Pitt leave, the dominos will begin to fall. A bball schools only conference would probably be imminent.
Uh oh.
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/09/17/sports/ncaafootball/syracuse-and-pitt-in-talks-with-acc.html?_r=1&ref=sports
Syracuse and Pitt in Talks With A.C.C.By PETE THAMEL
Syracuse University and the University of Pittsburgh, two bedrock members of the Big East Conference, are engaged in talks about joining the Atlantic Coast Conference, according to a person with direct knowledge of the talks.
No one from Pittsburgh, Syracuse or the A.C.C. denied the conversations were taking place. Officials from all three entities declined to comment on the matter.
The person with knowledge of the talks declined to speculate on a timetable or the seriousness of the discussions. But in this delicate time for conferences and their futures, the discussions between the 12-team A.C.C. and two Big East members are significant.
The talks show how the trend toward 16-team super conferences, which has concerned many college athletic officials, appears to be inching closer to reality. If Syracuse and Pittsburgh switch, the move will be difficult for the Big East to overcome.
Syracuse is a founding member, and Pittsburgh joined the league in 1982, three years after it formed.
The Pittsburgh chancellor, Mark Nordenberg, who is widely credited with saving the Big East after Boston College, Miami and Virginia Tech moved to the A.C.C. in the early 2000s, twice declined to comment when reached at his home.
Syracuse Athletic Director Daryl Gross, when reached on his cellphone in Los Angeles, where the Orange will play Southern California on Saturday, said: "I can't comment on that. Maybe that's even too much to say."
Amy Yakola, the A.C.C.'s associate commissioner for public relations and marketing, said, "We've been dealing with the fluidity of the conference landscape on multiple levels for a week, and at this point we wouldn't be able to comment on speculation."
Big East Commissioner John Marinatto declined to comment when reached on his cellphone.
Jim Boeheim, the longtime Syracuse basketball coach, said Friday night, "I wouldn't be surprised by anything, but I don't know anything right now."
If this happens, will remaining members of BE pick over A-10?
We have to be praying the Big 12 breaks up if they leave. I assume after they get Pitt and Cuse, they'd then go after UConn and/or Rutgers/WV and get to 16.
If we can't get KU, KSU, or Mizzou, we'd have to go grab Memphis, Houston, Central Florida, UMass??
Quote from: Aughnanure on September 16, 2011, 11:43:29 PM
If we can't get KU, KSU, or Mizzou, we'd have to go grab Memphis, Houston, Central Florida, UMass??
Is that really better than just going to the bball only conference?
Quote from: Aughnanure on September 16, 2011, 11:43:29 PM
We have to be praying the Big 12 breaks up if they leave. I assume after they get Pitt and Cuse, they'd then go after UConn and/or Rutgers/WV and get to 16.
If we can't get KU, KSU, or Mizzou, we'd have to go grab Memphis, Houston, Central Florida, UMass??
Or poach Xavier and Dayton (St. Joes if we have to)
My only input: F*ck super conferences and football.
Seems it is only a matter of time before Big East breaks up. Best thing schools like MU, Georgetown, Villanova, St. John's, etc., can do is INVEST HUGE in their basketball programs in the way of coaches, training facilities, etc....not that MU doesn't already.. These schools are going to have to brand themselves as the best training grounds/schools for basketball development. All basketball, all the time. The basketball players are the big men on campus. Not taking a backseat to football.
So as it seems the BE is breaking up, what's the ultimate impact for Marquette? And what is MU likely to do?
Quote from: Ners on September 17, 2011, 08:35:55 AM
My only input: F*ck super conferences and football.
Seems it is only a matter of time before Big East breaks up. Best thing schools like MU, Georgetown, Villanova, St. John's, etc., can do is INVEST HUGE in their basketball programs in the way of coaches, training facilities, etc....not that MU doesn't already.. These schools are going to have to brand themselves as the best training grounds/schools for basketball development. All basketball, all the time. The basketball players are the big men on campus. Not taking a backseat to football.
Well said. Except the Big East doesn't break up, it just gets out of the football business. The BE name has value.
Quote from: Villacats on September 17, 2011, 09:03:41 AM
Well said. Except the Big East doesn't break up, it just gets out of the football business. The BE name has value.
Good point. Let all the football schools leave, poach the best basketball only schools around, and keep the big east moniker. that actually makes a lot of sense. There would be MU, Nova (unless they decide to finally make the jump in football), G-town, St. Johns, Seton Hall, Providence and Depaul remaining. Add some combo of Butler, Dayton, Xavier, UMass, St. Joe's, Rhode Island. Maybe Cleveland St., SLU, GW and Siena are in the mix if necessary?
I really don't understand this move from Syracuse and Pitt's perspective. I'm guessing they are attracted to the more stable format of the current ACC with everyone having football. But its not like ACC football is any good, probably worse than the very mediocre Big East. The match ups with UNC and Duke are obviously attractive, but they are losing their traditionally rivalries and instead will be playing a number of (what I feel to be rather bland) Southern schools.
It just amazes me how much college football drives the show in college sports, especially when it is such an inferior product to what the NFL puts out. Give me a BBall only conference and I think we could still be fine marketing that: MU, GTown, St. John's, Villanova, Notre Dame, Providence, Xavier, DePaul, Seton Hall, Temple. Right there you have all bball schools that I think could form a competitive basketball conference, plus you have the added "Catholic league" element (with the exception of Temple).
Quote from: Villacats on September 17, 2011, 09:03:41 AM
Well said. Except the Big East doesn't break up, it just gets out of the football business. The BE name has value.
And in a few years with all the rivalries in football gone, fans of teams that used to compete for conference titles now cheering for a team to finish 7th, the super conferences will either break up or break away from the NCAA.
And in 20 years, football will have gone the way of boxing because parents will stop signing their kids up for it and basketball will be the money sport in college basketball. I was kind of hoping that the football super-conferences idea would take longer to unfold and MU could play the long game by being all in on basketball. If things start unraveling right now there could be some trouble if we get left out by all the mergers.
Quote from: AWegrzyn17 on September 17, 2011, 09:24:31 AM
I really don't understand this move from Syracuse and Pitt's perspective.
More stability...more money....and ACC football is much better than BE football.
ESPN now reporting they've applied for the ACC...not good for MU. Wish I was more confident that an all basketball conference could have long term financial sustainability. Not liking this for MU unless we can somehow pick off some top notch Big 12 teams.
I actually think that if a couple football schools leave, it might make MU's position with the other basketball schools (Georgetown, Nova, etc.) that much more secure. Those are the schools MU needs to stay with.
Quote from: The Sultan of South Wayne on September 17, 2011, 09:45:33 AM
More stability...more money....and ACC football is much better than BE football.
I am struggling with why the ACC would even want them? I can see a conference wanting to share their revenue with a Nebraska, Texas, Oklahoma, A&M or ND because of their $$ draw, but Syracuse football? Sixth in average football attendance in the BE, 14th in undergrad enrollment, and the last in BE TV market size (82nd nationally). Is Jim Brown coming back or something?
There is a reason the ACC passed on these teams last time.
Enjoy the Big East while you can, folks.
smh at these fracking worthless, good for nothing, D1 FB schools.
Thankfully, MU is in a very strong position. Remember, we forced out our Athletic Director two months ago during the fallout from the allegations leaving us rudderless in a stormy ocean. Can't be any more secure than that.
Enjoy any of the good moments to come this season. They may be your anchor memories in the upcoming years.
http://espn.go.com/college-sports/story/_/id/6980644/pitt-syracuse-apply-join-acc-ranks-source-says
Quote from: The Golden Avalanche on September 17, 2011, 10:18:47 AM
Thankfully, MU is in a very strong position. Remember, we forced out our Athletic Director two months ago during the fallout from the allegations leaving us rudderless in a stormy ocean. Can't be any more secure than that.
Enjoy any of the good moments to come this season. They may be your anchor memories in the upcoming years.
Thankfully, Buzz is the type of coach/personality, that could have enough cache/charisma, for MU to be fine regardless of what happens. If Buzz were to leave, AND the Big East breaks up - that would be the perfect storm...and a VERY, VERY sad day for MU Basketball.
Good riddance to both of them. The conference made them, they didn't make the conference. MU will be just fine. ACC football will always be awful.
New Big East (Assuming football schools leave and Big East returns to its bball roots)
Marquette
Notre Dame
DePaul
Seton Hall
St. John's
Providence
Villanova
Georgetown
Add
Xavier
SLU
Butler
That's 11 teams. You can play a 20-game conference schedule where you play everyone home-and-home.
Travel cost are an issue when you consider the non-revenue sports. That is why any realignment for Marquette is so important. Conference USA's configuration when Marquette was in it wasn't very friendly with a member school like East Carolina. That is why Georgetown, Villanova, St. John's, Cinncinnati, Xavier, Seton Hall, South Florida, DePaul, UConn and Providence would be keys to any new conference. All larger TV markets -- less costly to get to.
That continued alignment keeps the NYC/Madison Square Garden link.
Other conference candidates that make sense depending on if you keep football (These days I think a viable conference needs to do that for TV purposes.) would be Memphis, TCU, Baylor, UNCC (they're adding football), UAB, UCF, Dayton, Temple, (they have football and a solid basketball program but would Nova accept them in the conference) URI, UMass, Butler.(With back to back national title appearances they have earned entry if they want it.)
I don't like the potential defection of Syracuse and Pitt from the Big East but if it happens Godspeed.
There will be a scramble for schools to find a stable home. Marquette is positioned well. Teams that may be in more trouble include Baylor, Iowa State, K State and Kansas. Could we see them in a super conference with Marquette?
It seems like the money contracts the ESPN, Big Ten Network, Fox and the Longhorn Network can pony up will dictate so much. BTN may be a much bigger player in realignment than most people think. (Texas and Notre Dame rumors anyone? PAC 12 rumors a smoke screen for what is really going on?)
Former Senator and current Oklahoma University President David Boren may have more of a hammer than most realize. He's a Rhodes Scholar and master politician. He was governor of the state at 30. The word from Norman is he wants to keep the Big 12 in operation one way or another and force league revenue sharing. He has everyone but Texas on board and knows where some bodies are buried.
Back to what we care about. Marquette will remain in the Big East and it will be more than viable for years to come in one form or another. My guess is there's a lot of work being done behind the scenes to position Marquette favorably in this brave new world.
ACC officials are now saying they have formally received applications from both Pitt and Cuse and have been contacted by at least 12 other schools for potential membership.
Dominoes are falling.
We always mention Butler, when we talk about a basketball only conference. Why would they want to join a new conference? They are very successful where they are at. Why would they want to change. I suspect their facilities are not as good as a lot of teams in the Big East. Their facilities fit where they are at.
Quote from: bilsu on September 17, 2011, 11:13:21 AM
We always mention Butler, when we talk about a basketball only conference. Why would they want to join a new conference? They are very successful where they are at. Why would they want to change. I suspect their facilities are not as good as a lot of teams in the Big East. Their facilities fit where they are at.
Couldn't that be said of pretty much any team that's moved in the last decade? Pitt has been pretty successful in the Big East, haven't they? Nebraska had a decent run in the Big 8/12, no? Utah did pretty well in the Mountain West.
The answer is simple = $$$$$
Butler would a lot more money (and is more likely to keep Brad Stevens longer) in a reconstituted Big East than in the Horizon.
Butler's facilities would match up plenty well with, and in some cases exceed, those of some Big East members.
Quote from: Dr. Blackheart on September 17, 2011, 10:03:55 AM
I am struggling with why the ACC would even want them? I can see a conference wanting to share their revenue with a Nebraska, Texas, Oklahoma, A&M or ND because of their $$ draw, but Syracuse football? Sixth in average football attendance in the BE, 14th in undergrad enrollment, and the last in BE TV market size (82nd nationally). Is Jim Brown coming back or something?
There is a reason the ACC passed on these teams last time.
That is a damn good question. Why would they want these schools? Pitt is somewhat understandable. But Syracuse? Why not West Virginia?
The ACC actually wanted Syracuse last time, but Virginia Tech pressured the conference politically and they recinded the Syracuse invite.
Quote from: Buzz Williams' Spillproof Chiclets Cup on September 17, 2011, 10:46:48 AM
New Big East (Assuming football schools leave and Big East returns to its bball roots)
Marquette
Notre Dame
DePaul
Seton Hall
St. John's
Providence
Villanova
Georgetown
Add
Xavier
SLU
Butler
That's 11 teams. You can play a 20-game conference schedule where you play everyone home-and-home.
This but NO SLU! Why add them? An 18 game round robin home and home schedule is perfect. Again, why SLU? Adds nothing.
Quote from: The Sultan of South Wayne on September 17, 2011, 11:38:44 AM
That is a damn good question. Why would they want these schools? Pitt is somewhat understandable. But Syracuse? Why not West Virginia?
The ACC actually wanted Syracuse last time, but Virginia Tech pressured the conference politically and they recinded the Syracuse invite.
A lot of this is prestige. ACC has a lot of academic heavy hitter schools with UNC, Duke, Miami, Virginia, Georgia Tech & BC - both Cuse and Pitt add solid academics with good athletics. Cuse isn't just the Syracuse market, but all of upstate New York. Yes their football sucks, but the school has a lot of solid qualities.
I also thinks this opens up West Virginia to the SEC to be the 1st northern school in the conference.
Great time not to have an athletic director.
You're telling me you can't get a national search done in 3 months?
Airplanes and email have been invented. Get names, resumes and get some interviews going.
I hope this makes it less likely Texas joins a conference and they join Notre Dame as independent. Having more power schools that need to put the rest of their sports in a conference is the best we can hope for now.
As someone who went to both Butler and MU, we do not want to be anywhere near BU. The amount of money they spend on sports is pennies. Most fans of BU readily admit that there is no way they could compete in a BigEast let alone an A10. Their athletes take a bus, live in basically McCormick with all the other students, practice in regular Hinkel which is amazing but needs massive renovations. It makes it all the better to see what they accomplished, but Marquette, on a money and facility standpoint is on a different level. Make that ten different levels above.
We NEED to stay in the BEAST.
Quote from: Buzz Williams' Spillproof Chiclets Cup on September 17, 2011, 10:46:48 AM
New Big East (Assuming football schools leave and Big East returns to its bball roots)
Marquette
Notre Dame
DePaul
Seton Hall
St. John's
Providence
Villanova
Georgetown
Add
Xavier
SLU
Butler
That's 11 teams. You can play a 20-game conference schedule where you play everyone home-and-home.
No need for a hoops conference to have more than 9 teams. And Notre Dame will want no part of us, they're gone.
Add Xavier and then Dayton or Butler.
This is BAD.
Source: Pitt, Syracuse apply to ACC
http://espn.go.com/college-sports/story/_/id/6980644/pitt-syracuse-apply-join-acc-ranks-source-says
The Atlantic Coast Conference has been approached by at least 10 schools about possible membership, a group that includes the Big East's Pitt and Syracuse, both of which have tendered letters of application, a high-ranking ACC official said Saturday morning.
In addition, amid a "fluid landscape" in conference alignment, the ACC presidents have unanimously approved to increase the buyout for schools to leave the conference from $12 million-$14 million to $20 million, the source said, making it a highly unlikely scenario that any ACC teams defect from the conference.
University athletic directors and ACC officials have repeatedly reaffirmed their commitment to the current membership, but the increased buyout will make it much more costly for them to go back on their word. The increase in the buyout was approved at the annual meeting of university presidents this past week.
Another ACC source confirmed the addition of teams is not only valid, but a very real possibility. ACC officials have declined to comment, and no sources were aware of a timetable.
This is familiar territory for the ACC, which added former Big East teams Miami, Virginia Tech and Boston College in 2004 and 2005 to get to its current 12-member format. Should it happen again, this move would likely be even far more difficult for the Big East to overcome.
For schools to leave the Big East, they must pay $5 million and give 27 months notice.
The New York Times first reported on Friday night that the ACC was in talks with Syracuse and Pittsburgh about leaving the Big East to join the league.
If Syracuse and Pittsburgh decide to leave the Big East, it could lead to another dramatic shuffle in college athletics. Texas A&M has announced its intention to join the Southeastern Conference, leaving the future of the Big 12 in doubt.
Baylor and Iowa State have already reached out to the Big East as a backup in case the Big 12 falls apart.
Big East spokesperson John Paquette said Saturday that league commissioner John Marinatto had no comment on word that Pitt and Syracuse have inquired about membership in the ACC.
Syracuse is a founding member of the Big East, and Pittsburgh joined the league in 1982.
Mike Finn, the ACC's associate commissioner for football communications, told The Associated Press late Friday night he was unaware of any such talks and didn't know anything about the Times' report.
Former Syracuse quarterback Donald McPherson, a Heisman runner-up in 1987 when the Orange went 11-0-1, approved of the school's push for membership in the ACC.
"I like the move," said McPherson, elected to the College Football Hall of Fame in 2009. "The landscape of college sports is rapidly changing and frankly, the Big East is not strong enough to survive it's current course.
"It's only asset the Big East has is the TV market, which may house the birthplace but has never been the soul of college football."
TCU athletic director Chris Del Conte, whose program is scheduled to join the Big East next season, said Saturday he was worried about what appears to be another pending conference shakeup.
"But if you are great at your craft there will always be a place for you," Del Conte said. "I feel great about how we are healthy athletically and fiscally. I feel good about the things we can control. There are so many moving parts and it's an amazing journey college athletics is on. I'm not sure who really knows when it will be over.
"It's crazy," Del Conte added. "It's nerve wracking for everyone in college athletics. There are earthquakes going on all around us. And we don't know when they'll settle."
Quote from: Villacats on September 17, 2011, 12:19:30 PM
No need for a hoops conference to have more than 9 teams. And Notre Dame will want no part of us, they're gone.
Add Xavier and then Dayton or Butler.
Marquette
St. John's
Villanova
Georgetown
Xavier
DePaul
Butler
St. Louis
Providence
Seton Hall
Ten teams. Itd be nice if we could grab a Memphis, UMass or something that wants to be in a viable basketball conference. Too bad Gonzaga and BYU are so far away, they would help legitimize this conference.
Quote from: Chili on September 17, 2011, 11:50:27 AM
Cuse isn't just the Syracuse market, but all of upstate New York. Yes their football sucks, but the school has a lot of solid qualities.
Add in the closest DMA, Rochester, which is 90 miles away and they are 42nd...which is a stretch to say that they have a significant draw/bleed there--same distance as Chicago to Milwaukee. Over the ten interested in the ACC, Cuse may be the 11th most attractive. Why would the ACC share their new TV deal (take less of a share per school as Syracuse gives them no TV leverage) with this football runt? USF makes far more sense, if FSU and Miami were to allow it.
We had all the momentum in the world in '03 (plus fundraising was at an all-time high) and could have added football (1-AA) but many powers that be said "no it's too much money", "it will take 8-10 years".
Well it's 8 years later, I wish we had that option. I still am of the belief Nova will end up better than us b/c of football. Maybe even Georgetown
btw, Wisconsin is one of the largest states in the Union to not have 2 D1 teams. There is a reason Whitewater is so good. We have opportunity in Wisconsin.
Looks like its pretty much official. Cuse and Pitt have sent in their applications.
Wonder what TCU is thinking right now. I am sure Pitt and Cuse was telling TCU it will solidify them in a BCS conference. And now they turn tail and run. Not cool.
Quote from: Dr. Blackheart on September 17, 2011, 12:41:16 PM
Add in the closest DMA, Rochester, which is 90 miles away and they are 42nd...which is a stretch to say that they have a significant draw/bleed there--same distance as Chicago to Milwaukee. Over the ten interested in the ACC, Cuse may be the 11th most attractive. Why would the ACC share their new TV deal (take less of a share per school as Syracuse gives them no TV leverage) with this football runt? USF makes far more sense, if FSU and Miami were to allow it.
I live in Rochester. Born and raised here. Rochester is a HUGE Syracuse town. Distance has nothing to do with it. The analogy between Milwaukee and Chicago is nothing like Rochester and Syracuse. Syracuse is the only major sports university in upstate NY. The University of Buffalo is the next closest but even most people in Buffalo cheer for Syracuse. The only problem I see with this move is that Syracuse basketball is king up here. No one cares about Syraucuse football. They have not been relevant since the Donovan Mcnnab days and even then, they still had trouble drawing fans to the games. Some people follow Cuse football, but compared to the midwest, college football has no pull in these parts. Cuse is know strictly for college basketball and even lacrosse in these parts. When it comes to football, it is the Bills and the Steelers, not college football.
Quote from: DiaperDandy on September 17, 2011, 01:01:02 PM
I live in Rochester. Born and raised here. Rochester is a HUGE Syracuse town. Distance has nothing to do with it. The analogy between Milwaukee and Chicago is nothing like Rochester and Syracuse. Syracuse is the only major sports university in upstate NY. The University of Buffalo is the next closest but even most people in Buffalo cheer for Syracuse. The only problem I see with this move is that Syracuse basketball is king up here. No one cares about Syraucuse football. They have not been relevant since the Donovan Mcnnab days and even then, they still had trouble drawing fans to the games. Some people follow Cuse football, but compared to the midwest, college football has no pull in these parts. Cuse is know strictly for college basketball and even lacrosse in these parts. When it comes to football, it is the Bills and the Steelers, not college football.
Yes, thanks for making those points come home. My point I was stumbling through is that as the #42 TV market combined, at best, Syracuse is not attractive to the ACC if this is about football. There is no significant football audience bleed like South Bend to Chicago for instance...or Milwaukee to Madison that makes a football deal attractive to ACC schools, at least as I can comprehend. It is a stretch, which your great insights further drive home.
Hoops is another story which leads one to believe that Syracuse would be better off in the BE--if football survives somehow.
ESPN is also saying the BE buyout is $5 million (for cuse and pitt) and the BE rules say schools leaving have to give 27 month notice.
If true, this looks like a 2014 move.
Here's my suggestion for a basketball-only conference:
East Division
Georgetown (Washington, DC)
Villanova (Philadelphia)
Seton Hall (West Orange, NJ/NYC)
St. John's (New York)
Providence (Providence)
Dusquene (Pittsburgh)
West Division
Marquette (Milwaukee)
DePaul (Chicago)
Xavier (Cincinnati)
Detroit Mercy (Detroit)
Butler (Indianapolis)
St. Louis (St. Louis)
All Catholic schools except for Butler. All in large cities.
I am not sure If Xavier goes anywhere without Dayton, being that the two are big rivals. Also, Xavier has owned the A10 lately. Not sure if they would want to leave.
What about ND?
There is some persistant message board chatter that both Texas and ND are in very quiet talks with the B10 about joining. One of the pieces of evidence is that ND has yet to announce what it will do with its hockey team, which has a no-brainer invite to upgrade its conference affiliation but has yet to pull the trigger.
Apparently Baylor and Iowa State are reaching out to the Big East now. Not sure how I feel about that. I think our core basketball teams have to decide the future of the conference. I have to believe that West Virginia is the next to leave.
Quote from: jsglow on September 17, 2011, 02:08:32 PM
Apparently Baylor and Iowa State are reaching out to the Big East now. Not sure how I feel about that. I think our core basketball teams have to decide the future of the conference. I have to believe that West Virginia is the next to leave.
Yuck is how I feel.
Pittsburgh Post Gazette reporting that move to ACC is imminent
http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/11260/1175549-100.stm
Quote from: DiaperDandy on September 17, 2011, 01:41:40 PM
I am not sure If Xavier goes anywhere without Dayton, being that the two are big rivals. Also, Xavier has owned the A10 lately. Not sure if they would want to leave.
You're Xavier. Would you rather play St John's, Villanova and Georgetown in NBA arenas, or Fordham, LaSalle and George Washington in their on-campus gyms? Have a TV deal with ESPN, or CBS College Sports Network? Play your conference tourney in the Garden, or rotate between Atlantic City and Richmond?
Xavier to the Big East is a no-brainer.
the more I think about it . . .
I don't want to become a diluted football conference accepting the bridesmaids of the major BCS conference members scattered across the country. That's a path to irrelevancy.
I think it's time for the hoops schools to sit down and recommit to the reason the league was formed many years ago. Big time college basketball stretching from the northeast to the midwest with a conference tourney at the epicenter of media attention; Madison Sq. Garden. I think there are viable candidates to fill any slots that don't see that core and might move on. And that ain't Baylor folks.
Welcome to the darkside jsglow. I completely agree with you.
Quote from: Norm on September 17, 2011, 01:29:39 PM
Here's my suggestion for a basketball-only conference:
East Division
Georgetown (Washington, DC)
Villanova (Philadelphia)
Seton Hall (West Orange, NJ/NYC)
St. John's (New York)
Providence (Providence)
Dusquene (Pittsburgh)
West Division
Marquette (Milwaukee)
DePaul (Chicago)
Xavier (Cincinnati)
Detroit Mercy (Detroit)
Butler (Indianapolis)
St. Louis (St. Louis)
All Catholic schools except for Butler. All in large cities.
If you go hoops only, no need to go over 10 teams. Then you keep a 16 or 18 game round robin schedule. Just cut out Dusquene and Detroit...
Quote from: jsglow on September 17, 2011, 02:36:24 PM
the more I think about it . . .
I don't want to become a diluted football conference accepting the bridesmaids of the major BCS conference members scattered across the country. That's a path to irrelevancy.
I think it's time for the hoops schools to sit down and recommit to the reason the league was formed many years ago. Big time college basketball stretching from the northeast to the midwest with a conference tourney at the epicenter of media attention; Madison Sq. Garden. I think there are viable candidates to fill any slots that don't see that core and might move on. And that ain't Baylor folks.
+1000
I have never thought I missed anything by not having a college football team, because college football is stupid.
Quote from: Chili on September 17, 2011, 02:40:20 PM
If you go hoops only, no need to go over 10 teams. Then you keep a 16 or 18 game round robin schedule. Just cut out Dusquene and Detroit...
This. We want to try to have as condense of conference as possible. We can't dilute the conference to stay relevant. I would see if Memphis would be interested if they don't get in a major conference.
Scary...considering Pitt's President is head of the BE Excutive Committee. Oh boy
Quote
Folks, John Marinatto found out Syracuse and Pitt applied to the ACC while sitting in the pressbox at Maryland. Think about that.
http://twitter.com/#!/Mengus22/status/115087473842978816
This makes no sense to me. Wasn't the Big Ten trying to court Pitt a few years ago? Unless the SEC showed up I don't see why either of these schools would be interested in the ACC. In my opinion it's not much better in Football, although i would agree it is better, and it's worse in basketball....I don't get it.
The Big Ten wanted nothing to do with Pitt. The interest was the other way around.
Quote from: jsglow on September 17, 2011, 02:36:24 PM
the more I think about it . . .
I don't want to become a diluted football conference accepting the bridesmaids of the major BCS conference members scattered across the country. That's a path to irrelevancy.
I think it's time for the hoops schools to sit down and recommit to the reason the league was formed many years ago. Big time college basketball stretching from the northeast to the midwest with a conference tourney at the epicenter of media attention; Madison Sq. Garden. I think there are viable candidates to fill any slots that don't see that core and might move on. And that ain't Baylor folks.
Spot on. When we see outselves bending over to add TCU, Baylor, and Iowa State to our conference it's gone too far, and it's not going to be a premiere basketball league anymore. Same thing if we're going to even consider Duquesne or Detroit. Let's go for basketball - not football, not Catholic, but basketball. If the pieces fall into perfect alignment that see all the football schools find a new conference, let's be thinking of Xavier, Butler, Temple (if they stay MAC in football), Richmond - strong basketball schools. If a couple of football schools with good basketball programs end up homeless and have to do something similar to Temple for their football program we can take them in for basketball, but it's got to be the basketball schools regaining the bargaining power and not adding garbage schools that stink at every sport to temporarily appease the remaining worthwhile football members that are still looking for a way out at the same time.
The Big East commish is clearly asleep at the wheel. Hard to believe he was sitting back doing nothing all this time. Let's hope he has a plan B ready to go that includes keeping the Big East name & the basketball only schools together.
Ironic that Dave Gavitt passed away last nite per CBSSports.com
Quote from: KC_Warrior on September 17, 2011, 04:31:22 PM
The Big East commish is clearly asleep at the wheel. Hard to believe he was sitting back doing nothing all this time. Let's hope he has a plan B ready to go that includes keeping the Big East name & the basketball only schools together.
What do you want him to do? I keep hearing that the BE should be "proactive," but I have no idea what exactly this means.
The only schools that would have accepted a BE membership offer over the past year are schools like TCU. Schools desperate for a BCS autobid conference. So you end up with a bunch of CUSA-type schools that think football first.
The conference has a punitive exit fee and length of time. (Which I think is ridiculous - I don't want Syracuse and Pitt hanging around for 27 months.) Outside of this, the BE is going to end up with leftovers because it is the poorest of the BCS conferences. The BE started down this path 20+ years ago when it let Penn State escape to the B10. The die was cast back then. This is just the logical end to that process.
So 2 schools are leaving... what about adding Kansas and Kansas St.?
Right now, Kansas and Kansas State are members of a conference that makes more $$$ than the BE does.
Quote from: The Sultan of South Wayne on September 17, 2011, 04:50:25 PM
Right now, Kansas and Kansas State are members of a conference that makes more $$$ than the BE does.
For how long?
Why is everybody so high on a ball only conference? The only thing that this is telling is that that is exactly what we do NOT want. The BigEast needs good football, and have MU hopefully remain a member. I want seton hall providence and Depaul out and to add more football teams. It is the only chance the BigEast has. Kansas and Kansas state would be a dream, but add Iowa state and Baylor too.
Like I said before, Butler is a terrible fit, we need huge arenas, with big attendance to stay relative.
I agree. Adding KU, K-State, Missouri & Iowa State would be the best option although I just don't see it happening.
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LATE NOTE: From a source at Pitt who is very close to Dixon, Dixon is NOT happy about this at all. This is not surprising as Jim Boeheim was very much against leaving the Big East a few years ago. For Dixon, it was something that he has mentioned in the past and that's that the NYC market was very important to the Pitt basketball brand, and now that will change. Don't take this as saying that Dixon is going to leave, just that he's not happy about it.
http://bebballreportpitt.blogspot.com/
Quote from: Warrior1 on September 17, 2011, 05:01:50 PM
Like I said before, Butler is a terrible fit, we need huge arenas, with big attendance to stay relative.
Butler's fieldhouse seats 36,000 people. By contrast, Madison Square Garden holds about 20,000 people for basketball games. What exactly do you mean by "huge arenas," and how does Butler's fieldhouse not qualify?
Hinkle Fieldhouse seats 10,000. 35,000? There's only one venue in the Big East that holds that many people, the Carrier Dome.
Butler's football stadium holds 36,000.
Hinkle holds about 10,000 for basketball
You're right. Sorry about that.
Big East 16 teams - 12 football / 4 basketball only:
Louisville
Cincinnati
UConn
Rutgers
South Florida
TCU
Kansas
Kansas State
Iowa State
Missouri
Baylor
Texas Tech
St. John's
Georgetown
Villanova
Marquette
Pitt - ACC
Syracuse - ACC
ND - B10
West Virginia - SEC
Seton Hall, Providence, DePaul - all gone, or keep and have a 19 team basketball league, play each other once.
Other possibilities for italicized teams - West Virginia if they would stay, Central Florida, Temple, Rice, Tulsa, Marshall, Houston, UTEP, East Carolina.
This is the league we need for Marquette to remain in the majors. Pray.
Quote from: monkeyman34 on September 17, 2011, 06:05:06 PM
Big East 16 teams - 12 football / 4 basketball only:
Louisville
Cincinnati
UConn
Rutgers
South Florida
TCU
Kansas
Kansas State
Iowa State
Missouri
Baylor
Texas Tech
St. John's
Georgetown
Villanova
Marquette
Pitt - ACC
Syracuse - ACC
ND - B10
West Virginia - SEC
Seton Hall, Providence, DePaul - all gone, or keep and have a 19 team basketball league, play each other once.
Other possibilities for italicized teams - West Virginia if they would stay, Central Florida, Temple, Rice, Tulsa, Marshall, Houston, UTEP, East Carolina.
The soap opera continues. The BE needs to band together right now. Obviously Pitt and Cuse didn't like the move out west with the B12 and did their own backroom deal. I still don't get the Syracuse appeal for football/tv market...but I don't get a lot of this craziness.
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Big East folks/schools are STEAMED at Pitt, which led the charge (with Rutgers) to reject a lucrative long-term TV deal a few months ago.
http://twitter.com/#!/PeteThamelNYT
Quote from: Warrior1 on September 17, 2011, 05:01:50 PM
Why is everybody so high on a ball only conference?
Because you want to be in a conference where you are relevant...where you have schools that are similar to you. As long as MU is in a conference with a majority of football schools, its needs will be secondary. If MU is in a conference with traditional basketball powers...Nova, Georgetown, St. Johns, etc. they will be fine. Those are our peers. Kansas is not. KSU is not.
Adding football schools does not make MU more relevant. We went to the Final Four as a member of CUSA. We will be fine.
monkeyman, KU, KSU and Texas Tech are *already* in another conference. Why would they jump on board the sinking ship that is the BE???
If Marquette and the other basketball only schools form a conference based on basketball, would we be able to attract a school like Gonzaga?
Duke, Wake, Miami and BC are all private schools that play football. I'm sure That appeals to Cuse and vice versa.
Quote from: TrueBlueAndGold on September 17, 2011, 06:41:32 PM
If Marquette and the other basketball only schools form a conference based on basketball, would we be able to attract a school like Gonzaga?
Ideally it would be great for them and the bball-only conference. The problem is how far away they are. Its hard to see a scenario where this conference can extend far enough that it doesn't force them to travel 3+ hours in a plane to get to every game. Would BYU, UNLV, Air Force, Wichita St, Creighton, Memphis, UTEP help? Possibly, just depends on what schools end up getting left out of the major 4-5 conferences and would still want a legitimate conference to house their basketball program.
If Pitt was leading the charge against signing the $3 billion dollar deal, could they have been scamming for this all along. Apparently they have been talking to the Big 12 for awhile about replacing A&M.
If this is true and with Pitt leading the Big East Executive committee, could there be a lawsuit on hand for breach of fiduciary duties.
ESPN now reporting that ACC powers to be have already accepted Pitt and Cuse announcement to come sometime Sunday.....WOW....that was really fast!
I don't really know much about agency law or the BEast's Exec Committee, but can you imagine the damages on a lawsuit like that. The potential in lost revenue for the BEast tournament, the Big Dance, advertising value, admission and tuition numbers, and ticket sales. Across the league you could easily be looking at billions.
That said, if we can get Kansas and Kansas State, I say we take it and try to play out the next five years when there will be a totally new landscape. If not, the current BEast schools should consider the BBall only route. Gonzaga is a pipe dream. Schools like West Virginia, Louisville and Cincinatti should perhaps be the most concerned. Yes they have football programs but currently they are completely on the outside looking in with the most to lose. MU can't lose football because it doesn't have it, WV could be stuck pairing with a bunch of BBall schools and going independent for football.
And its....official...
http://www.theacc.com/genrel/091811aaa.html
Quote from: The Sultan of South Wayne on September 18, 2011, 08:05:59 AM
And its....official...
http://www.theacc.com/genrel/091811aaa.html
Yes, and two more invites to go. They want a 16 team conference with two eight team divisions. UCONN will probably be one and ?????.
Not having an AD right now could end up potentially disastrous. This is really not the time to be in a rudderless ship.
Well...if nothing else, this will be interesting to watch. I wasn't really aware of the realignment when we moved from CUSA to the Big East. Was it a similar country-wide shakeup?
Great post about how the Big 12 leftovers are just going to stick it out in a crippled league because they will have fewer teams to split 155 million per year with: http://outkickthecoverage.com/big-12-television-contract-likely-to-protect-league.php
"In the next few days or weeks stories will start trickling out about how Dan Beebe is a miracle worker. Columnists and prognosticators will herald his genius. But the simple fact will be this: ESPN and Fox are so conflicted over realignment that they aren't going to be willing to cancel existing league contracts for fear of massive liabilities via lawsuit.
Voila, the Big 12, a dead conference walking, just got a reprieve on execution's eve."
I wonder how long this will take to settle out? Wouldn't surprise me to see a 'new' BEast formed by Friday. Bet all the football programs are gone and an approximate 10 team league is formed. Funny, maybe we played two conference opponents in last year's big dance. Frankly, if this happens I'd prefer the new conference to kick off in 12-13, not wait another year.
Quote from: brewcity77 on September 18, 2011, 09:40:57 AM
Not having an AD right now could end up potentially disastrous. This is really not the time to be in a rudderless ship.
Cottingham had absolutely zero experience as a an athletic director before he came. Father Wild's efforts were much of the reason we are where we are. There is still a rudder to out Athletic Program...If you think one man ran the show you are very confused about how athletic programs work.
Quote from: The Sultan of South Wayne on September 17, 2011, 06:16:23 PM
monkeyman, KU, KSU and Texas Tech are *already* in another conference. Why would they jump on board the sinking ship that is the BE???
Sultan, what conference are they apart of? A conference whose ship is further sunk than the BE right now. With no Texas, Oklahoma, Texas A&M, and possibly no Oklahoma St, they really don't have a conference any more. I think that would work out really well to put together the remaining teams of the B12 and the remaining teams of the BE, even if Rutgers and UConn both leave now as well, that's a pretty solid conference for football (not superstar power, but still solid) and the basketball would be amazing.
Quote from: monkeyman34 on September 18, 2011, 12:43:37 PM
Sultan, what conference are they apart of?
A conference that has a 1.2 billion dollar TV contract through 2025 regardless of how many teams leave. Read the article I linked above.
Quote from: jhags15 on September 18, 2011, 11:24:45 AM
Cottingham had absolutely zero experience as a an athletic director before he came. Father Wild's efforts were much of the reason we are where we are. There is still a rudder to out Athletic Program...If you think one man ran the show you are very confused about how athletic programs work.
It's not a one-man show, but I have little doubt that we'd be better off with a strong, clear leader.
Quote from: jhags15 on September 18, 2011, 11:24:45 AM
Cottingham had absolutely zero experience as a an athletic director before he came. Father Wild's efforts were much of the reason we are where we are. There is still a rudder to out Athletic Program...If you think one man ran the show you are very confused about how athletic programs work.
You write this
Father Wild's efforts were much of the reason we are where we are and then write this
If you think one man ran the show you are very confused about how athletic programs work.
One man show or not? If former, he's gone. If latter, Groupthink here we come. Sounds like a secure position to me.
Quote from: brewcity77 on September 18, 2011, 01:27:27 PM
It's not a one-man show, but I have little doubt that we'd be better off with a strong, clear leader.
Or looking at it differently, this is the opportunity for Broeker to shine and take the reigns permanently. I am not advocating for Broeker - I truly do not know if he is the guy or has the potential to be, but it is the opportunity.
Quote from: The Sultan of South Wayne on September 17, 2011, 06:16:23 PM
monkeyman, KU, KSU and Texas Tech are *already* in another conference. Why would they jump on board the sinking ship that is the BE???
Completely agree
Quote from: monkeyman34 on September 18, 2011, 12:43:37 PM
Sultan, what conference are they apart of? A conference whose ship is further sunk than the BE right now. With no Texas, Oklahoma, Texas A&M, and possibly no Oklahoma St, they really don't have a conference any more. I think that would work out really well to put together the remaining teams of the B12 and the remaining teams of the BE, even if Rutgers and UConn both leave now as well, that's a pretty solid conference for football (not superstar power, but still solid) and the basketball would be amazing.
I think a far more likely scenario is that the BE football teams head to the B12 and leave the bball schools behind.
Quote from: The Golden Avalanche on September 18, 2011, 02:34:06 PM
You write this Father Wild's efforts were much of the reason we are where we are and then write this If you think one man ran the show you are very confused about how athletic programs work.
One man show or not? If former, he's gone. If latter, Groupthink here we come. Sounds like a secure position to me.
There is a large distinction between saying Father Wild is the only reason, and saying he is much of the reason. If you are going to attack an argument on verbiage alone you should realize that I did not say he was the ONLY reason. It does sound like a secure position due to the fact that I said much. The team in 2003 had much to do with it as well, as did Crean, and Wade. That was the reason I didn't say ONLY
Quote from: jhags15 on September 18, 2011, 06:47:09 PM
There is a large distinction between saying Father Wild is the only reason, and saying he is much of the reason. If you are going to attack an argument on verbiage alone you should realize that I did not say he was the ONLY reason. It does sound like a secure position due to the fact that I said much. The team in 2003 had much to do with it as well, as did Crean, and Wade. That was the reason I didn't say ONLY
Jesus fuckin christ. I wasn't attacking anything. I just asked a fuckin question. People on here are so god damn defensive you'd think they were all teenage girls.
Scumbag Pitt and Syracuse!