SEC accepts A&M, but with a condition that the remaining Big 12 schools offer no roadblocks to the Aggies departure.
http://content.usatoday.com/communities/campusrivalry/post/2011/09/texas-a38m-accepts-southeastern-conference-with-condition/1
.....Well looks like Baylor wants to be that condition.
http://espn.go.com/college-sports/story/_/id/6939017/texas-aggies-accepted-sec-legal-threat-delays-move
This is still just a delay, once A&M falls Oklahoma and Missouri will be the next dominoes.
Texas is attempting one last hail mary to save the conference (more to save its Longhorn Network which would have to be worked into the PAC regional network structure).
http://blogs.mercurynews.com/collegesports/2011/09/07/texas-and-the-pac-12-its-not-really-about-the-longhorn-network/
One more thing, this was being discussed a lot yesterday - Texas started sniffing around the ACC, basically trying to save the LHN and to potentially have more political power in a conference.
http://texas.rivals.com/content.asp?CID=1261031
The best thing A&M can hope for if it wants to leave is that the other schools stay behind. Baylor would drop its threat of a lawsuit pretty quickly if it can be assured that the B12 would stay around.
Quote from: The Sultan of South Wayne on September 07, 2011, 10:39:57 AM
The best thing A&M can hope for if it wants to leave is that the other schools stay behind. Baylor would drop its threat of a lawsuit pretty quickly if it can be assured that the B12 would stay around.
Have to disagree, that the last thing A&M wants. If the Big 12 dissolves then they don't have to pay the $25-28 million they owe for leaving the conference since there will be no conference. Baylor can't really do much with this, word is A&M is announcing regardless tomorrow.
But Baylor would have an argument that they could sue both the SEC and the Pac-whatever for contractural interference if it is substantially harmed by the other conference's actions. That *potentially* could be worth a hell of a lot more than $25-28M. At this point, A&M is likely resigned itself to pay that anyway.
Face it Baylor, your going to the Mt. West.
Quote from: Aughnanure on September 07, 2011, 09:48:57 AM
Texas is attempting one last hail mary to save the conference (more to save its Longhorn Network which would have to be worked into the PAC regional network structure).
http://blogs.mercurynews.com/collegesports/2011/09/07/texas-and-the-pac-12-its-not-really-about-the-longhorn-network/
This article mentions Pitt and Louisville to the Ever Diminishing 12 as a possibility. Why would they want to get in the middle of that mess?
Quote from: Litehouse on September 07, 2011, 11:00:09 AM
This article mentions Pitt and Louisville to the Ever Diminishing 12 as a possibility. Why would they want to get in the middle of that mess?
They wont, author is just throwing darts. Texas really wants to keep the LHN, this author's argument that the "culture" would be the reason is absolutely wrong, that's why they've contacted the ACC, hoping they would allow them to bring their network. Oklahoma and Texas would have to really convince these teams that they are staying, and I'm not sure anyone cam believe them.
Texas is going to have make a decision soon - Go Independent and keep LHN vs stay in conference (Big 12, PAC or B1G) and lose the network they've worked 4 years to create.
Someone mentioned the scenario of Texas coming along to the Big East in everything but football, similar to ND's arrangement. Based on all the talk of the importance of the Longhorn Network to Texas, that could turn out to be a real possibility.
Quote from: The Sultan of South Wayne on September 07, 2011, 10:50:39 AM
But Baylor would have an argument that they could sue both the SEC and the Pac-whatever for contractural interference if it is substantially harmed by the other conference's actions. That *potentially* could be worth a hell of a lot more than $25-28M. At this point, A&M is likely resigned itself to pay that anyway.
I don't see how Baylor gets around the liquidated damages provision in the Big XII contract. If the penalty for leaving is set at $25-$28 million, and everybody agreed to that, how can Baylor argue for greater damages?
Quote from: Litehouse on September 07, 2011, 11:06:22 AM
Someone mentioned the scenario of Texas coming along to the Big East in everything but football, similar to ND's arrangement. Based on all the talk of the importance of the Longhorn Network to Texas, that could turn out to be a real possibility.
That makes no sense. The BE does not want/need another basketball only member. They want football. The Longhorn Network does what for the BE?
Quote from: 79Warrior on September 07, 2011, 11:10:02 AM
That makes no sense. The BE does not want/need another basketball only member. They want football. The Longhorn Network does what for the BE?
I think the reason would be if the Big East splits with all the shuffling. BYU, Notre Dame and Texas would want a conference to keep their other sports. Add in Army, Navy and possibly Air Force (they have expressed interest in the past, but complain about how hard it is to do it where they are geographically) and thats a start. The more independents there are the easier it is for the those independents to stay independent.
W/ BYU & Air Force maybe you are stretched too much, but you could add in Gonzaga and maybe UNLV & Memphis if they want to be in a viable basketball conference. Then split into divisions
Quote from: Rubie Q on September 07, 2011, 11:08:18 AM
I don't see how Baylor gets around the liquidated damages provision in the Big XII contract. If the penalty for leaving is set at $25-$28 million, and everybody agreed to that, how can Baylor argue for greater damages?
I think Baylor wants to make sure they get paid before this disintegrates. They may go from getting $20 million a year in TV revenue to less than $5 million. Can't blame them for looking out for #1, but they can't really stop the move.
http://blogs.dallasobserver.com/sportatorium/2011/09/_planned_press_conference_part.php
Quote from: Aughnanure on September 07, 2011, 11:17:02 AM
I think Baylor wants to make sure they get paid before this disintegrates. They may go from getting $20 million a year in TV revenue to less than $5 million. Can't blame them for looking out for #1, but they can't really stop the move.
And I think -- or hope, I guess -- that they realize that the most they can do is sue to enforce the terms of the "out clause" of the Big XII contract. I agree that they're probably just trying to slow things down to try to get their ducks in order before the zero hour hits.
Quote from: mupanther on September 07, 2011, 10:54:56 AM
Face it Baylor, your going to the Mt. West.
Those of us in glass houses shouldn't throw stones...
I do wonder it Texas joined in all other sports along with a few of the Big 12 left over's Kansas, Kansas st, Mizz. would they kick out one of the other 8 BBALL only schools? I always felt that 12 and 8 would be where we would be at. Would you rather have Baylor or TCU?
Quote from: Bocephys on September 07, 2011, 11:38:34 AM
Those of us in glass houses shouldn't throw stones...
This.
Quote from: kmwtrucks on September 07, 2011, 11:43:57 AM
I do wonder it Texas joined in all other sports along with a few of the Big 12 left over's Kansas, Kansas st, Mizz. would they kick out one of the other 8 BBALL only schools? I always felt that 12 and 8 would be where we would be at. Would you rather have Baylor or TCU?
I don't think its as simple as people say it is to "kick out" the basketball schools. Notre Dame has significant power and its in their interest to keep the BBall school around, voting power is still equal and the schools that created this conference (esp Providence and GTown) hold a lot of cache. More likely is that the football schools will have to leave and create a new conference. BBall schools will then keep Big East name.
Yeah, but Buzz looks like a genius for not leaving.
Quote from: Bocephys on September 07, 2011, 11:38:34 AM
Those of us in glass houses shouldn't throw stones...
Baylor screwed TCU in 1995.
Quote from: mupanther on September 07, 2011, 12:26:12 PM
Baylor screwed TCU in 1995.
And SMU.
Interesting article in the New York Post:
http://www.nypost.com/p/sports/college/football/big_east_thinking_big_ou8JdQKJUhWEeCUtGv7dNP
Quote from: Aughnanure on September 07, 2011, 12:06:48 PM
More likely is that the football schools will have to leave and create a new conference. BBall schools will then keep Big East name.
We'd also keep the conference tourney at MSG, the NCAA auto-bid, and split all the cash the football schools pay for exit fees. But after that we'd be screwed.
Quote from: Litehouse on September 07, 2011, 12:29:30 PM
We'd also keep the conference tourney at MSG, the NCAA auto-bid, and split all the cash the football schools pay for exit fees. But after that we'd be screwed.
I may be wrong, but I believe if enough schools leave at once there is no buyout.
Here is something nobody is taking about. What will happen with Iowa State?
Quote from: mupanther on September 07, 2011, 01:26:33 PM
Here is something nobody is taking about. What will happen with Iowa State?
CUSA? Horizon League?
Quote from: mupanther on September 07, 2011, 01:26:33 PM
Here is something nobody is taking about. What will happen with Iowa State?
"Ladies and Gentlemen....welcome to the 2013 MAC Championship game between the Rockets of the University of Toledo and the Cyclones of Iowa State University. The winner earns a berth in the Motor City Bowl!!!"
Baylor is no longer blocking Texas A&M to the SEC...cue a mad dash to get poach the rest of the Big 12.
http://tamu.rivals.com/
See, I think we can take this as a sign that the B12 isn't going to get poached at all. My guess is that Baylor received some assurances that the conference will remain intact.
What I would worry about is the possibility of WVU leaving for the SEC...and *possibly* Louisville or Pitt leaving for the B12.
I would anticipate the B12 raiding CUSA.
Quote from: The Sultan of South Wayne on September 07, 2011, 02:17:55 PM
See, I think we can take this as a sign that the B12 isn't going to get poached at all. My guess is that Baylor received some assurances that the conference will remain intact.
What I would worry about is the possibility of WVU leaving for the SEC...and *possibly* Louisville or Pitt leaving for the B12.
I don't think any school has assurances on the future of the Big 12. Most likely they settled on some monetary figure or finally realized that threatening suit won't stop the implosion.
Here is what I think is happening now.
1.-Texas doesn't want to give up the Longhorn Network, (which the Pac-12 would essentially require them to do) but will give up some $$$ to the conference to keep the likes of Oklahoma around.
2.-The Pac-12 has no interest in expansion without Texas. Oklahoma isn't going to do it for them.
3.-The B12 adds one more team to keep it at 10. (BYU???) They will *not* recreate the Southwest Conference by adding a bunch of Texas-based CUSA teams.
4.-SEC will expand by one more team, either WVU or Missouri. Neither of which will cause large-scale reallignment. In response, the BE might take a team like UCF or might just be happy as is.
Being from Big 12 country, I am a bit closer to this than others and I cannot see a way the Big 12 survives. No one trusts each other and no "pledge" of undying loyalty is going to make the schools suddenly trust one another.
All it would take is one Big Ten offer to Missouri and they are gone, and do the Kansas schools really feel safe enough not to take a Big East offer if it means being in a more stable conference? The fear of having nowhere to land softly is terrifying. The only way this survives is if Texas gives up the Bevo network and agrees to more equal pay, but that isnt happening.
New rumor has Texas going Indy in football and placing all its other sports in Big East or ACC - that would help secure the importance of the Bball only schools
Iowa State now has not waived legal rights regarding Texas A&M's SEC move. Some are also disputing that Baylor backed off. Also heard on KC radio Kansas is still exploring whether they are waiving their legal rights to sue.
http://content.usatoday.com/communities/campusrivalry/post/2011/09/iowa-state-legal-rights-texas-a38m-move-sec/1
Are the orphan schools getting some backbone and trying to hold on?
I do not think the Big 12 survvives as a ten team conference. They would have to give up their playoff game. They will only survice, if they can get to 12. That will be really hard to do, if any other teams leave besides A&M.
Quote from: tower912 on September 07, 2011, 02:20:42 PM
I would anticipate the B12 raiding CUSA.
So far nobody wants Memphis.
Worst Case for Marquette:
Big East falls apart with football and basketball spilting.
Although, Texas goes independent.
New ten or twelve team conference with
Texas, Notre Dame who remain independent in football.
Georgetown and Villanova who play in FCS still.
Seton Hall, St. Johns, DePaul, Marquette, and Providence.
Then we would have to add a couple other basketball-only schools such as Butler, Richmond, BYU (independent), Drake, Dayton, Davidson
This would basically be the Horrizon league but better
Sure the money from football would be there, but i believe the conference could survive and be one of the top conferences in the country for basketball. Also, it allows the rest of the sports a competitive conference. I still would take this option over CUSA any day.
Quote from: marquette20 on September 07, 2011, 04:13:35 PMThis would basically be the Horrizon league but better
Texas, Notre Dame, Georgetown, Villanova, Marquette, St. John's, and you say Horizon League but better? You're talking a league that will consistently get 5-7 NCAA teams a year. That's waaaaaaaaaaay better than the Horizon. It's more like the old C-USA, where we got 5-6 bids every year and had legitimate national powerhouses.
Quote from: brewcity77 on September 07, 2011, 04:17:56 PM
Texas, Notre Dame, Georgetown, Villanova, Marquette, St. John's, and you say Horizon League but better? You're talking a league that will consistently get 5-7 NCAA teams a year. That's waaaaaaaaaaay better than the Horizon. It's more like the old C-USA, where we got 5-6 bids every year and had legitimate national powerhouses.
it is like the Horizon league since they dont have D1 football.
Quote from: marquette20 on September 07, 2011, 04:13:35 PM
Worst Case for Marquette:
Big East falls apart with football and basketball spilting.
Although, Texas goes independent.
New ten or twelve team conference with
Texas, Notre Dame who remain independent in football.
Georgetown and Villanova who play in FCS still.
Seton Hall, St. Johns, DePaul, Marquette, and Providence.
Then we would have to add a couple other basketball-only schools such as Butler, Richmond, BYU (independent), Drake, Dayton, Davidson
This would basically be the Horrizon league but better
Sure the money from football would be there, but i believe the conference could survive and be one of the top conferences in the country for basketball. Also, it allows the rest of the sports a competitive conference. I still would take this option over CUSA any day.
Though I disagree with you that THIS is the "worst-case" scenario, I do agree its a decent probability. Id also add in Army, Navy and potentially Air Force (who basically have said they want independence like their armed services brethren but cant due to geography).
It would then look like:
Texas
BYU
Notre Dame
Georgetown
Villanova
St. John's
Marquette
DePaul
Seton Hall
Providence
Army
Navy
Air Force
Then add in some number of these schools: Gonzaga (doesnt't look as far w/ BYU & Air Force), Wichita St (Baseball), Butler, Xavier, St. Louis, etc.,....Creighton, Richmond, Charlotte Dayton?
Now its 6 Big 12 schools saying they won't sign the waiver
Baylor, 5 other Big 12 schools could threaten legal action as SEC invites Texas A&M
UPDATE, 3:55 PM: Baylor was among six Big 12 schools that will not sign a waiver to allow Texas A&M to go to the Southeastern Conference following a meeting of the Big 12 presidents Wednesday afternoon, a source close to Baylor told the Tribune-Herald.
The other schools were Kansas, Kansas State, Texas Tech, Iowa State and Missouri.
If Oklahoma reaffirms its commitment to the Big 12, the schools are expected to sign the waiver that would allow the Aggies to go to the SEC without any legal action. The Sooners, who are reportedly considering a move to the Pac-12, are expected to make their decision within the next two weeks.
http://www.wacotrib.com/news/breakingnews/Big-12-school-threatens-legal-action-as-SEC-invites-Texas-AM-to-join-league.html?abc=I0XA4pU5
Quote from: marquette20 on September 07, 2011, 04:13:35 PM
Worst Case for Marquette:
Big East falls apart with football and basketball spilting.
Although, Texas goes independent.
New ten or twelve team conference with
Texas, Notre Dame who remain independent in football.
Georgetown and Villanova who play in FCS still.
Seton Hall, St. Johns, DePaul, Marquette, and Providence.
Then we would have to add a couple other basketball-only schools such as Butler, Richmond, BYU (independent), Drake, Dayton, Davidson
This would basically be the Horrizon league but better
Sure the money from football would be there, but i believe the conference could survive and be one of the top conferences in the country for basketball. Also, it allows the rest of the sports a competitive conference. I still would take this option over CUSA any day.
That is in fact a bad scenario, however I believe your teams are wrong. Furthermore Marquette needs to make a move (or have a contingency plan) when/if the time comes. If the Big 12 folded, with a OU and OSU going to what would be the Pac-14, a realignment would take place:
Marquette Depaul, Cinci and UL have been in the same conference for a long time and I believe they'll want to continue that tradition. Just lumping the (former) big east non football schools together operates on the assumption that they WANT to be together. Marquette is the ginger step child of the Big East, we're successful and beat the 'historic members'. Georgetown, Villanova, St. Johns and Provo can do without Marquette if push came to shove. So Marquette will need to make a move if the time comes that secures itself.
In your Scenario with Texas going independent the lesser big 12 team will need to make a move. ISU to MAC or CUSA because F-em. Take Baylor, kansas, Kstate, Tech, add Cinci, UL Pitt and TCU and build a football conference from there. Snap off a top CUSA, other big12 or MAC team and you've got 10+ team conference. Add MU, DePaul, Xavier, Creigton and butler... you have a respectable basketball conference. One that is geographically acceptable too. That would Force Nova or Georgetown's hand (as well as SJU, Provo and SHU). Stick with a shrinking Big East or Join this new Conference. Forgotten in all this is Nova's top tier FCS team... would they elevate it? Head to the ACC? Adding Texas for other sports would make sense here.
Also Screwed in this ordeal is USF. Neither the ACC Nor the SEC needs another Florida football team. Especially the 4th best in the state
Adding a team like BYU (or gonzaga for that matter) makes little sense geographically.
Less worst case scenario: A&M Bails, OSU, and OU stay Houston,SMU or Arkansas and/or BYU join
The more I think about it the more I think Texas will end up in the Big East, because the Big East will allow Texas and Notre Dame to be independent in football. However, the other Big 12 teams may not want to have anything to do with Texas. Hopefully, the Big 10 stands pat. I do not see Pitt going to Big 12, because I think they could go to Big 10, if they wanted to. Possibly West Virgina to SEC, Pitt and Missouri to Big 10, Oklahoma & OK St to Pac 10. That would leave Big East with 8 football schools plus Notre Dame and Big 12 with 6 plus Texas. Leave Baylor and Iowa St out and you have 12 football, two independents and 7 basketball schools. Thee divisions of 7. Lose two teams to ACC and you have a 19 team basketball league, which would work well. Bayor and Iowa St get consideration, if we need them to get to 12 football schools.
Quote from: bilsu on September 07, 2011, 08:49:12 PM
The more I think about it the more I think Texas will end up in the Big East, because the Big East will allow Texas and Notre Dame to be independent in football. However, the other Big 12 teams may not want to have anything to do with Texas. Hopefully, the Big 10 stands pat. I do not see Pitt going to Big 12, because I think they could go to Big 10, if they wanted to. Possibly West Virgina to SEC, Pitt and Missouri to Big 10, Oklahoma & OK St to Pac 10. That would leave Big East with 8 football schools plus Notre Dame and Big 12 with 6 plus Texas. Leave Baylor and Iowa St out and you have 12 football, two independents and 7 basketball schools. Thee divisions of 7. Lose two teams to ACC and you have a 19 team basketball league, which would work well. Bayor and Iowa St get consideration, if we need them to get to 12 football schools.
Texas would never ever join the Big East dude. They make way too much money on their own, and wouldn't want to split it with more teams.
Looks like the B12 will actually survive. The threat of lawsuits against aTm will go away if Oklahoma signs to the B12. They will do this if UT gives up more of the pie....and UT will prob do this because they can draw off of the LHN. Plus, UT has contacted just about every conference and they prob know the B12 is best for them until they can get their network up and running and that might take a year or two. This scenario could actually hurt the BE because WVU or an ACC school will be the last member of the SEC (instead of Mizzou). WVU would be a big loss and if the SEC poaches the ACC for one team, the ACC will turn around and take a BE team.
random thought but I would love to see a Jesuit conference
Marquette
Boston College
Georgetown
Holy Cross
Creighton
Fairfeild
Fordham
Gonzaga
Loyola Marymont
St. Joseph's
St. Louis University
Xavier
I know it would never happen but it would be cool and pretty much all but Boston College are basketball only schools (I think not 100% sure).
K
Quote from: ken8406 on September 07, 2011, 10:37:45 PM
random thought but I would love to see a Jesuit conference
Marquette
Boston College
Georgetown
Holy Cross
Creighton
Fairfeild
Fordham
Gonzaga
Loyola Marymont
St. Joseph's
St. Louis University
Xavier
I know it would never happen but it would be cool and pretty much all but Boston College are basketball only schools (I think not 100% sure).
Totally random thought posted here for the 1,000th time that makes me want to barf every time I see it. In no way is that appealing to me or any television network.
Apparently every school except Oklahoma refused to waive their right to sue the SEC. Which clearly makes sense to me - there is no reason for them to do so. If the SEC *really* wants A&M, they should just take them anyway. There has never been a successful lawsuit based on a conference relocation that is conducted within the bylaws of the conference.
Frankly if the SEC doesn't simply just take them at this point, I think it speaks volumes about their true interest in A&M.
Quote from: Hards_Alumni on September 07, 2011, 09:23:24 PM
Texas would never ever join the Big East dude. They make way too much money on their own, and wouldn't want to split it with more teams.
You may be correct, but there is no evidence of this as they have never been on their own. They may or may not have the draw to schedule in all sports as an independent. If they are playing patsies all the time, what becomes of the Longhorn Network?
I think Texas needs a conference. Maybe not in Football, but definitely in other sports.
Quote from: Jamailman on September 08, 2011, 07:49:58 AM
KTotally random thought posted here for the 1,000th time that makes me want to barf every time I see it. In no way is that appealing to me or any television network.
Assuming we end up in a basketball only conference, I would hope it is limited to 10 teams. That way you play everyone twice in a home and home schedule.
Quote from: bilsu on September 08, 2011, 09:04:47 AM
Assuming we end up in a basketball only conference, I would hope it is limited to 10 teams. That way you play everyone twice in a home and home schedule.
This. However, I think its more important to limit the teams in order to not dilute the league, since staying relevant (and respected) will be extremely important for whichever league Marquette is in next (keeping Big East name will also be crucial). Assuming worst-case scenario where Texas and Notre Dame either don't go independent or don't need another league to keep their other sports in. And no, Villanova isn't going D1 now - its too late, wouldn't even start playing until 2014 at the earliest...they may have seen something like this coming and held off on spending a ton of money when they knew they could get quickly left out.
Rumors surfacing that if UT says no to PAC-12 (theyd have to give up/restructure their tv network), OU and OSU will go and that Kansas and Kansas St would be strongly considered. Get a premier program in both basketball and football and the State schools match the PAC - Arizona St, Wash St. Oregon St. Plus the PAC likes its "travel partner" set up.
http://blogs.mercurynews.com/collegesports/2011/09/07/pac-12-expansion-the-case-for-the-oklahoma-schools/
Pac-12 expansion: The case for the Oklahoma schools
"...
Or the Big 12 could shatter in days with the Longhorns declaring football independence.
I don't how it will end, but of this I am as close to certain as you can be (at least on matters with so many potential pitfalls):
If the Oklahoma schools officially apply for membership to the Pac-12 ... and there are many steps between here and there, let's not forget ... then they'll be admitted into the conference regardless of what Texas does.
In other words: The Pac-12 is willing to become the Pac-14 without knowing when it would become the Pac-16 — or knowing the ID of the 15th and 16th teams.
And here's why:
*** Yes, the dynamics at the presidential level have changed.
In the spring of 2010, the Pac-10 CEOs were hungry for growth — they wanted to get bigger, they wanted to get richer, they wanted to catch up, and overtake, their BCS peers.
In the fall of 2011, that mission has been accomplished and the Pac-12 CEOs have very little appetite for growth. They are fat with the richest TV contract in college sports history and have their own national and regional network, which will eventually a cash cows.
However, the CEOs will eat if they must.
*** Scott's view, best I can tell from talking to sources, is that the moment one of the 12-team leagues goes to 13, the era of the super-conference is upon us because there's no way that league is stopping at 13 — it will expand to 14 and likely 16.
The Pac-12 won't be the first to 13. No chance of that.
But if the SEC goes to 13 — and it will if/when the legal issues are resolved — then the Pac-12 will take the approach that the SEC is headed to 16 and the Big Ten will expand to at least 14 (and possibly 16) when its current TV deal is up in a few years.
And looking at that landscape ... with the SEC headed to 16 and the Big Ten to 14 or more ... the Pac-12 CEOs would be willing to expand again.
*** They don't want to be the Pac-14 right now, but they'd accept the Oklahoma schools and become the Pac-14 in order to protect the conference down the road — to give it the size and power to compete with the expanded SEC and Big Ten.
If the CEOs were to pass on OU and OSU now — especially if they were to pass on a football brand as powerful and lucrative as Oklahoma's — there's no guarantee they could get them later.
At least, that's my sense of how the Pac-12′s power brokers are approaching the current situation.
*** And if Oklahoma and OSU were to climb aboard in the next few days or weeks, then Scott would take the time to make sure Texas is off the table ... and then he'd move on.
How long he'd wait for Texas to decide its future, I have no idea. But eventually the Pac-14 would examine other options for its 15th and 16th teams. (The league has probably done some of that legwork already.)
Without question, Kansas and Kansas State would be given serious consideration — and those schools would know they were receiving serious consideration, thus delaying a possible move to the Big East.
Guessing along with Scott is a risky, risky venture, but I think he thinks the Kansas basketball brand is strong enough to offset the weak football brand ... and strong enough to haul KSU along with it."
I understand why everyone wanted to get to 12 for the football championship game, but I don't see the point of expanding further just to keep up with the other conferences. It's just more mouths to feed and split the money more ways. Each school would have to bring in more than they would take away, and it seems like diminishing returns at some point.
Litehouse, I completely agree with you. I don't know why people are under the assumption that if one conference goes to 16, then they must all go to 16. That's silly. The B10 for instance will go larger if it increases "per school revenue," but if not, what's the point?
Or...maybe I am wrong.
http://northwestern.rivals.com/showmsg.asp?fid=57&tid=162506546&mid=162506546&sid=901&style=2
In no way would a 14 or 16 (or even 20) team football conference survive long term. The last one of those lasted 2 years. Not enough $ to feed every mouth. Some of the lower end Pac-12 schools will feel squeezed out. Besides didn't Colorado jump from the big 12 to get away from Texas?
---
The idea of a Jesuit only conference is sickening. You can't even justify half those schools. its MU, Georgetown, Gonzaga and a pile of crap. Fairfield and Fordham... come on
The difference between any new expansion to 16 and the WAC expansion is that the WAC expanded from 10 to 16 all at once, and took a bunch of secondary programs in overlapping markets (UNLV, San Jose State, Tulsa, SMU, Rice and TCU) If the Pac 16 is created, it would do so with state-wide programs with larger followings.
But I think you are right Ari. In 15-20 years will it still be worth it? Would a Pac-16 break back down into its eastern and western portions? (Like the WAC did when the Mountain West schools defected?)
I think everyone is looking at this wrong. Yes there technically would be only 4 or 5 conferences....BUT there would 8-10 Divisions. Teams mostly will keep to a round robin schedule with the teams most regional to them. In a way, this could be a return to the 8-10 team conferences. The Conference championship games will then work like playoff games.
They will also continue to make more money, even more per school b/c sporting events are the LAST event that people actually will watch live. The advertising opportunity will become unlike anything else available on television, and thus more valued.
Quote from: The Sultan of South Wayne on September 08, 2011, 11:09:00 AM
Or...maybe I am wrong.
http://northwestern.rivals.com/showmsg.asp?fid=57&tid=162506546&mid=162506546&sid=901&style=2
or this?
http://twitter.com/#!/FootballBYU/status/111821850065121280
@BYUFootball: BYU will accept Big 12 offer pending OU signs intent to stay contract... Could be announced as early as Saturday
Quote from: The Sultan of South Wayne on September 08, 2011, 11:09:00 AM
Or...maybe I am wrong.
http://northwestern.rivals.com/showmsg.asp?fid=57&tid=162506546&mid=162506546&sid=901&style=2
Jesus F'ing Christ, ths is getting ridiculous. Can that conference handle all that ego? Nebraska would be pissed.
Funny tweet I saw yesterday that sums up this soap opera:
@PeterBurnsRadio: On the next episode of the Real Housewives of the Big 12....Baylor confronts A&M, and Kansas reveals a deep dark secret
Quote from: marquette20 on September 07, 2011, 04:13:35 PM
Worst Case for Marquette:
Big East falls apart with football and basketball spilting.
Although, Texas goes independent.
New ten or twelve team conference with
Texas, Notre Dame who remain independent in football.
Georgetown and Villanova who play in FCS still.
Seton Hall, St. Johns, DePaul, Marquette, and Providence.
Then we would have to add a couple other basketball-only schools such as Butler, Richmond, BYU (independent), Drake, Dayton, Davidson
This would basically be the Horrizon league but better
Sure the money from football would be there, but i believe the conference could survive and be one of the top conferences in the country for basketball. Also, it allows the rest of the sports a competitive conference. I still would take this option over CUSA any day.
I'm sorry, but I'm not sure who in the Horizon League you equate with Texas and Notre Dame, let alone Georgetown, Nova, and MU, especially if the league takes in Butler.
Quote from: marquette20 on September 07, 2011, 04:22:10 PM
it is like the Horizon league since they dont have D1 football.
That makes it as much like the Horizon League as a high school conference with only girl's schools.
Quote from: Aughnanure on September 08, 2011, 12:13:23 PM
I think everyone is looking at this wrong. Yes there technically would be only 4 or 5 conferences....BUT there would 8-10 Divisions. Teams mostly will keep to a round robin schedule with the teams most regional to them. In a way, this could be a return to the 8-10 team conferences. The Conference championship games will then work like playoff games.
They will also continue to make more money, even more per school b/c sporting events are the LAST event that people actually will watch live. The advertising opportunity will become unlike anything else available on television, and thus more valued.
I think this is spot on, but what gets interesting, is with this much power located in a relatively few conference presidents, are the days of the NCAA numbered? I think ultimately, in the near future you would have the PAC-16, the Big-14(B10), ACC, SEC, and Big East as MAJOR power conferences and the small conferences remaining. There would be roughly 70 teams in those conferences with the majority of the football revenue, all that before we even discuss basketball. What would be the purpose of the NCAA anymore? Why would the conferences care about it as an organizational entity? Assuming they could retain their anti-trust exemption why not create a new, lower cost bureaucracy they could control better?
This would also potentially lead to a playoff scenario as the conference championships are the first round with bowl games as the next two rounds of games.
Lastly, the dis concerning thing about this scenario is the Big East is the shakiest of the conferences in that scenario. Is there enough scraps of B12, CUSA, and other schools for the BEast to replace departing ND and give the ACC and SEC enough to feast on without raiding the big east.
Quote from: ken8406 on September 07, 2011, 10:37:45 PM
random thought but I would love to see a Jesuit conference
Marquette
Boston College
Georgetown
Holy Cross
Creighton
Fairfeild
Fordham
Gonzaga
Loyola Marymont
St. Joseph's
St. Louis University
Xavier
I know it would never happen but it would be cool and pretty much all but Boston College are basketball only schools (I think not 100% sure).
Here's your link if you're jonesing for shitty, religiously-affiliated basketball:
http://byutv.org/ (http://byutv.org/)
http://rivals.yahoo.com/ncaa/basketball/news;_ylt=Ajg3hJjWKQuiuCP9EASGKuvevbYF?slug=jn-king_baylor_plan_b_big_east_090811
Baylor "confident" they will get BE invite if B12 blows up.
Quote from: The Sultan of South Wayne on September 08, 2011, 12:53:33 PM
http://rivals.yahoo.com/ncaa/basketball/news;_ylt=Ajg3hJjWKQuiuCP9EASGKuvevbYF?slug=jn-king_baylor_plan_b_big_east_090811
Baylor "confident" they will get BE invite if B12 blows up.
First TCU and next Baylor? Neither of those schools do anything for me - football or basketball. But it is obvious the direction the BE is headed. Known as a basketball league, football is the definite driver. Another reason why I hate the BCS.
Quote from: MUMac on September 08, 2011, 01:21:40 PM
First TCU and next Baylor? Neither of those schools do anything for me - football or basketball. But it is obvious the direction the BE is headed. Known as a basketball league, football is the definite driver. Another reason why I hate the BCS.
Don't expect it to be around as is much longer. ACC and Big East are eyeing each other for survival, knowing they both will likely lose a few teams. Look for Syracuse, WV, UCONN, Rutgers, Pittsburgh & Louisville to jump to the ACC or land somewhere else.
UCF, USF, Cincinnati and potentially Louisville could be left to find out what that 5th conference will look like.
Quote from: Aughnanure on September 08, 2011, 01:30:49 PM
Don't expect it to be around as is much longer. ACC and Big East are eyeing each other for survival, knowing they both will likely lose a few teams. Look for Syracuse, WV, UCONN, Rutgers, Pittsburgh & Louisville to jump to the ACC or land somewhere else.
UCF, USF, Cincinnati and potentially Louisville could be left to find out what that 5th conference will look like.
Yeah....the ACC is the only stable conference in which BE teams could add value since their pay-out is only around $13M per school.
Quote from: Litehouse on September 08, 2011, 10:56:55 AM
I understand why everyone wanted to get to 12 for the football championship game, but I don't see the point of expanding further just to keep up with the other conferences. It's just more mouths to feed and split the money more ways. Each school would have to bring in more than they would take away, and it seems like diminishing returns at some point.
The law of diminishing returns is already occurring in bball within the BE. One NCAA unit, which was valued last year at $239,664, was split 16 ways (or $14,979). Throw in TCU and a unit next year will be worth $14,097 per school (and Im not counting on TCU contributing to BE units for awhile...think USF).
UConn's men's bball program took in $2.275M this spring - a combination of their credits pay-out and bonuses that the BE paid out for their Final Four appearance and NC.
In football, BCS bowl games were worth $21.2M per school last year. The hugely popular Chick-fil-A Bowl, which pits the #2 ACC vs. #5 SEC school pays each team roughly $750k more than what UConn was paid out for winning the NCAA tournament.
Of course, if a school doesnt have a strong traveling fanbase, many low to mid-tier bowl games will lose schools money and even UConn lost money going to the Fiesta Bowl. A school like Rutgers, which didnt go to a bowl, received a nice check because the pay-outs are divided equally and they didnt have a ticket liability.
http://www.theday.com/article/20110403/NWS01/304039856/-1/NWS
And the reason that football drives this, isn't because of the BCS...but because college football is simply more popular than college basketball...and therefore the more valuable football properties a conference has, the bigger the television contract.
Quote from: The Sultan of South Wayne on September 08, 2011, 02:47:02 PM
And the reason that football drives this, isn't because of the BCS...but because college football is simply more popular than college basketball...and therefore the more valuable football properties a conference has, the bigger the television contract.
This is true, but one thing I think is missed in all this is HOW MUCH football is overvalued in comparison. While basketball is not as important, people are acting like it is a deadweight in comparison to football in this realignment. I do not believe that statistics back that up and TV execs are WAAAYY undervaluing basketball in the deals, and I've seen article over the past year that make that argument.
1st, basketball has significantly more games and guess what, in states like Carolina, Kentucky, Kansas, Indiana - everyone one of those games are watched across the state. Just because it isn't Saturday, doesn't mean eyeballs are on it, and in fact they might be more intuned to the commercials on a Monday night than on a Saturday drinking with their friends.
This graph sums up that basketball can pull its own weight in comparison to football. Wiscy bball makes more than GTech football. Duke baball makes more than Mizzou, NC State, ASU, Arizona, TTech, Oregon and Illinois football. Marquette makes more than Pitt and Miss St. football.
http://businessofcollegesports.com/2011/06/20/which-football-and-basketball-programs-produce-the-largest-profits/
Football may be driving it, but basketball should not be ignored.
Quote from: Aughnanure on September 08, 2011, 02:58:20 PM
This is true, but one thing I think is missed in all this is HOW MUCH football is overvalued in comparison. While basketball is not as important, people are acting like it is a deadweight in comparison to football in this realignment. I do not believe that statistics back that up and TV execs are WAAAYY undervaluing basketball in the deals, and I've seen article over the past year that make that argument.
1st, basketball has significantly more games and guess what, in states like Carolina, Kentucky, Kansas, Indiana - everyone one of those games are watched across the state. Just because it isn't Saturday, doesn't mean eyeballs are on it, and in fact they might be more intuned to the commercials on a Monday night than on a Saturday drinking with their friends.
This graph sums up that basketball can pull its own weight in comparison to football. Wiscy bball makes more than GTech football. Duke baball makes more than Mizzou, NC State, ASU, Arizona, TTech, Oregon and Illinois football. Marquette makes more than Pitt and Miss St. football.
http://businessofcollegesports.com/2011/06/20/which-football-and-basketball-programs-produce-the-largest-profits/
Football may be driving it, but basketball should not be ignored.
This article has legs; Ive seen it a million times, I think. The only interesting thing is the disclaimer:
The data in these charts is from reports filed by each school with the U.S. Department of Education. As always when I post U.S. Department of Education data,
I must warn you that although there are guidelines for how to report revenue and expenses, there is some wiggle room in terms of how to attribute facilities costs and broadcasting revenue. These are the only numbers available for every school, however, because private schools are not subject to public records requests but do have to file their data with the U.S. Department of Education.Its an apples to oranges comparison. MAYBE you can compare public universities located in the same state because those schools likely use the same accounting guidelines. Once you compare schools across state lines, across conference affiliations and especially public vs. private, the numbers are virtually meaningless.
Quote from: muhs03 on September 08, 2011, 03:08:36 PM
This article has legs; Ive seen it a million times, I think. The only interesting thing is the disclaimer:
The data in these charts is from reports filed by each school with the U.S. Department of Education. As always when I post U.S. Department of Education data, I must warn you that although there are guidelines for how to report revenue and expenses, there is some wiggle room in terms of how to attribute facilities costs and broadcasting revenue. These are the only numbers available for every school, however, because private schools are not subject to public records requests but do have to file their data with the U.S. Department of Education.
Its an apples to oranges comparison. MAYBE you can compare public universities located in the same state because those schools likely use the same accounting guidelines. Once you compare schools across state lines, across conference affiliations and especially public vs. private, the numbers are virtually meaningless.
Agreed, but it shows that at least at some level a football program is not automatically more valuable. Duke > West Virginia any day, having a national brand matters the most and that is getting forgotten.
These tables show the value to the institution....not the value to the television network that is shelling out the $$$.
Quote from: The Sultan of South Wayne on September 08, 2011, 03:27:37 PM
These tables show the value to the institution....not the value to the television network that is shelling out the $$$.
Yes, but everyone assumes that the football schools of the big east are itching to break off from the ball only schools for the increased football $. While the fact is that schhols like syracuse make 3x as much money on basketball. To the big east schools protecting it's Bball brand is just as important if not more important than increasing football revenues.
Quote from: Clarence on September 08, 2011, 03:48:29 PM
Yes, but everyone assumes that the football schools of the big east are itching to break off from the ball only schools for the increased football $. While the fact is that schhols like syracuse make 3x as much money on basketball. To the big east schools protecting it's Bball brand is just as important if not more important than increasing football revenues.
Good point. I just wonder for how long do the schools like Syracuse see keeping the basketball schools around as a benefit. If you suddenly add in Kansas, Kansas St & Missouri, your top line bball schools are Kansas, UCONN, Syracuse, Pittsburgh, & Louisville. That's deep enough to maintain/increase the amount of money they make on basketball w/out the bball onlies. Not to mention, they secure 1 of the top 3 historic programs in all of college basketball.
In that scenario, what incentive does Syracuse or any of the other football members have to go it alone. Why not keep the rivalries and tv sets that Georgetown, villa nova, st. Johns etc. bring to the Bball conference?
Quote from: Clarence on September 08, 2011, 10:00:07 PMIn that scenario, what incentive does Syracuse or any of the other football members have to go it alone. Why not keep the rivalries and tv sets that Georgetown, villa nova, st. Johns etc. bring to the Bball conference?
Money. A 12-team basketball conference with Syracuse, UConn, Pittsburgh, West Virginia, Louisville, Cincinnati, Kansas, Kansas State, Missouri...that's a loaded conference. That includes four of the most successful programs of the past 30 years in 'Cuse, UConn, 'Ville, and KU. They'd get 6-8 bids per year, why on earth would they want to share that basketball money with the basketball-only schools? Would we really add that much?
But that's my point, why not have a conference that gets 12 bids a year? The Bball schools don't get any football Money anyway, so why give up the added money and tv markets that the Bball schools provide AND go to 12 in football.
I really think, the only threat to us in this whole thing is if ND leaves the big east for the big ten. As long as the Irish stay independent and in the big east for everything else we are in good shape.
Quote from: Clarence on September 08, 2011, 10:34:05 PMBut that's my point, why not have a conference that gets 12 bids a year? The Bball schools don't get any football Money anyway, so why give up the added money and tv markets that the Bball schools provide AND go to 12 in football.
I really think, the only threat to us in this whole thing is if ND leaves the big east for the big ten. As long as the Irish stay independent and in the big east for everything else we are in good shape.
Because 8 bids pay out to 12 teams at a better rate than 12 teams pay out to 20 teams. And as far as the football money...it's complicated, I remember seeing the breakdown and it's not as simple as just saying we don't get that money. I don't know how it works, but I do believe the basketball teams do glean a very minor portion of that money.
The difference in $ is marginal on the NCAA bids. My point is there is no financial reason, and definitely no TV reason to get rid of the BBall schools. Unless they go to 16 team super conferences I see no credible reasons for the big east to jettison some very popular and profitable basketball programs.
The number of bids has nothing to do with this. Its all about TV money, and the question is do the basketball only schools add enough on their own to increase the amount of TV dollars the league would get PER TEAM. The league is already loaded, so would Nova, Marquette, St. John's and GTown really increase it even more, or would the slice of the pie just become smaller.
Don't get me wrong, we add value - but at that point, in a league that loaded I don't think the bball onlies add enough to increase the tv revenue PER TEAM, and especially when you add in Seton Hall (one team, I hope we remove when we form a new league), Providence & DePaul. The overall number would certainly go up, but not each team's individual pay out.
But the bball-onlies are in the major media markets, and create more interest in those markets for the Big East overall, which theoretically should increase the value of the TV contracts. There are stories on the local teams and the Big East in the local papers and local news in those markets, which provides free publicity to generate more interest in the leage overall.
We add value for the TV contract, but I guess the ultimate question is, do we add enough to keep everything together.
Quote from: Litehouse on September 09, 2011, 08:49:15 AM
But the bball-onlies are in the major media markets, and create more interest in those markets for the Big East overall, which theoretically should increase the value of the TV contracts. There are stories on the local teams and the Big East in the local papers and local news in those markets, which provides free publicity to generate more interest in the leage overall.
We add value for the TV contract, but I guess the ultimate question is, do we add enough to keep everything together.
Yes, Nova adds Philly (sort of - it's a huge professional sports city and Nova cant sell-out unless they bring in an attractive opponent that has a Philly fanbase). But do you really think the BE needs SJU for the NYC market? If SJU delivered NYC, every conference in the country would be offering them to join their conference even as a partial member. There is nothing SJU offers that UConn, Rutgers and Cuse collectively cant. Providence? Nothin. SHU? Nothin.
Quote from: muhs03 on September 09, 2011, 09:11:12 AM
Yes, Nova adds Philly (sort of - it's a huge professional sports city and Nova cant sell-out unless they bring in an attractive opponent that has a Philly fanbase). But do you really think the BE needs SJU for the NYC market? If SJU delivered NYC, every conference in the country would be offering them to join their conference even as a partial member. There is nothing SJU offers that UConn, Rutgers and Cuse collectively cant. Providence? Nothin. SHU? Nothin.
You really think the Big ?, SEC, ACC, or any other BCS conference would go after St. John's as a basketball only? What in their history indicates they would do that, even for the NYC market? And what would persuade St. John's to leave? The Big East has a huge payout both for their basketball TV contract and are perennially the biggest earner in the NCAAs based on sheer volume of teams and has placed at least one team in the Final Four in 4 of the 6 years of the current Big East configuration. That's a lot of payout money for teams.
As a basketball-only, the Big East is the only BCS conference that has offered membership to teams like SJU to date. And it's the most successful basketball conference, which leads to the most money for St. John's. I'm sure plenty of other conferences would kill for SJU, but I'm not sure there's anyone else who's legitimately in the running.
Quote from: brewcity77 on September 09, 2011, 11:02:12 AM
You really think the Big ?, SEC, ACC, or any other BCS conference would go after St. John's as a basketball only? What in their history indicates they would do that, even for the NYC market? And what would persuade St. John's to leave? The Big East has a huge payout both for their basketball TV contract and are perennially the biggest earner in the NCAAs based on sheer volume of teams and has placed at least one team in the Final Four in 4 of the 6 years of the current Big East configuration. That's a lot of payout money for teams.
As a basketball-only, the Big East is the only BCS conference that has offered membership to teams like SJU to date. And it's the most successful basketball conference, which leads to the most money for St. John's. I'm sure plenty of other conferences would kill for SJU, but I'm not sure there's anyone else who's legitimately in the running.
What is your definition of a lot of money? It has been reported that the bball schools in the BE are making less than $2M under the current contract. UConn took home $2.275M last year....more than any school due to the special bonuses the conference paid them. http://www.theday.com/article/20110403/NWS01/304039856/-1/NWS
The ACC has a better pay-out because their conference does just as well, if not better in the NCAAs and the money isnt divided as many ways.
And no, no other conference would ever go after a bball school, even a nyc bball school. No one wants partial conference membership.
Interesting Article
http://articles.courant.com/2011-08-03/sports/hc-jacobs-big-east-column-0803-20110803_1_john-marinatto-ncaa-rulebook-ncaa-president-mark-emmert
"The Big East has never divulged how its money is split. It has been speculated 60 percent is divided among all the members and 40 percent among the football schools. Right now, that would give the basketball schools $4.6 million and football schools about $10.3 million. By contrast, the SEC, Big Ten and Pac-12 schools get about $21 million a year."
Assuming this split is correct If the next deal is for say $200MM a year. the BBall schools(8) would get 7.06MM and the football schools(9) would get $15.9MM. With the same contract, but going to 12 football teams without the bball only teams, the per year payout is 16.7MM.
Is $800k per year worth losing decades old rivalries, Madison Square Garden, the Philadelpia(Nova), Washington DC(Gtown), Chicago(ND/DePaul), and Milwaukee media markets?
If I was Syracuse/UCONN/Pitt, etc. the dollars would have to be much bigger for me to take that risk.
Quote from: muhs03 on September 09, 2011, 09:11:12 AMIf SJU delivered NYC, every conference in the country would be offering them to join their conference even as a partial member.
Quote from: muhs03 on September 09, 2011, 11:10:05 AMAnd no, no other conference would ever go after a bball school, even a nyc bball school. No one wants partial conference membership.
Okay...I'm confused. So 2 hours ago every conference in the country would offer SJU as a partial member, and now no one wants partial conference membership? Which is it?
My contention is that the Big East is the only BCS conference that will have partial members like SJU or Marquette. And there isn't a single non-BCS conference that would have a chance in hell of offering more money than the Big East does. For a team like them or us, there's the Big East, then there's everyone else (C-USA, Horizon, A-10, etc).
Quote from: brewcity77 on September 09, 2011, 11:22:20 AM
Okay...I'm confused. So 2 hours ago every conference in the country would offer SJU as a partial member, and now no one wants partial conference membership? Which is it?
My contention is that the Big East is the only BCS conference that will have partial members like SJU or Marquette. And there isn't a single non-BCS conference that would have a chance in hell of offering more money than the Big East does. For a team like them or us, there's the Big East, then there's everyone else (C-USA, Horizon, A-10, etc).
I think you misinterpreted that first quote you cited. My point was that SJU absolutely does not deliver NYC. IF THEY DID, they would be FAR more valuable than they actually are.
Based on Brett McMurphy's tweets, the Big East turned down $1.4BB over 9 years, and that the breakdown was approx. 65-75% football and 25-35% basketball. So:
At 65/35 split where 65% of the money is split 9 ways and 35% of the money is split 17 ways:
$14,437,182.28 per football school per year
$3,202,614.38 per non-football school per year
At 75/25 split:
$15,250,544.66 per football school per year
$2,287,581.70 per non-football school per year.
But St. John's does deliver the NYC market. I'm not saying they give a stranglehold on it, but if you are the Big Ten and add SJU (hypothetically) it would easily lube the gears to get the BTN on NYC cable packages. Do you really think those two things aren't related?
Quote from: brewcity77 on September 09, 2011, 11:40:26 AM
But St. John's does deliver the NYC market. I'm not saying they give a stranglehold on it, but if you are the Big Ten and add SJU (hypothetically) it would easily lube the gears to get the BTN on NYC cable packages. Do you really think those two things aren't related?
No, the Big Ten would add Rutgers, UConn, Syracuse, Boston College all before even thinking about SJU. This isn't even worth discussing, these conferecne are only interested in teams that increase their basketball AND football money. Our best hope is to go to 20-24 teams and add a few extra bball onlies to keep our voting power - Xavier, Butler, St. Louis. If not, better hope BYU, Notre Dame and Texas still want a non-football conference to keep their other sports in.
Quote from: Aughnanure on September 09, 2011, 12:07:49 PM
No, the Big Ten would add Rutgers, UConn, Syracuse, Boston College all before even thinking about SJU. This isn't even worth discussing, these conferecne are only interested in teams that increase their basketball AND football money. Our best hope is to go to 20-24 teams and add a few extra bball onlies to keep our voting power - Xavier, Butler, St. Louis. If not, better hope BYU, Notre Dame and Texas still want a non-football conference to keep their other sports in.
You completely missed my point.
I don't think the Big Ten or any other BCS conference would be interested in St. John's. I never said they would be. muhs said "
If SJU delivered NYC, every conference in the country would be offering them to join their conference even as a partial member." I refuted that. I specifically said "
the Big East is the only BCS conference that will have partial members like SJU or Marquette."
But if the Big Ten did poach St. John's, it would allow them to put the BTN into NYC. That's a colossal, impossible, never-going-to-happen if. But that doesn't mean it isn't a true statement.
Quote from: Clarence on September 09, 2011, 11:14:19 AM
Interesting Article
http://articles.courant.com/2011-08-03/sports/hc-jacobs-big-east-column-0803-20110803_1_john-marinatto-ncaa-rulebook-ncaa-president-mark-emmert
"The Big East has never divulged how its money is split. It has been speculated 60 percent is divided among all the members and 40 percent among the football schools. Right now, that would give the basketball schools $4.6 million and football schools about $10.3 million. By contrast, the SEC, Big Ten and Pac-12 schools get about $21 million a year."
Assuming this split is correct If the next deal is for say $200MM a year. the BBall schools(8) would get 7.06MM and the football schools(9) would get $15.9MM. With the same contract, but going to 12 football teams without the bball only teams, the per year payout is 16.7MM.
Is $800k per year worth losing decades old rivalries, Madison Square Garden, the Philadelpia(Nova), Washington DC(Gtown), Chicago(ND/DePaul), and Milwaukee media markets?
If I was Syracuse/UCONN/Pitt, etc. the dollars would have to be much bigger for me to take that risk.
I think people have to consider what the ESPN contract is really for. Ask yourself this question. Are they paying the big dollars to get Big East football or basketball? I suspect it is the basketball games that they really want. There is much better football to watch on Saturdays than watching a Big East football game.
There's also a huge difference in the amount of programming they get rights to.
For football, there 28 conference games they get the rights to (most of which overlap at the same time slots as other games on Sat.). In addition, the games are relatively weak compared to other games from other conferences on at the same time.
For basketball, there are 144 games more evenly distributed throught the week in different time slots, many of which are the biggest game on that night. Plus, there's the conference tournament that anchors ESPN's programming for that week.
The viewers per game may be less than some of the big football games, but ESPN is able to fill a lot of air time with the basketball rights.
Quote from: brewcity77 on September 09, 2011, 12:40:01 PM
You completely missed my point.
I don't think the Big Ten or any other BCS conference would be interested in St. John's. I never said they would be. muhs said "If SJU delivered NYC, every conference in the country would be offering them to join their conference even as a partial member." I refuted that. I specifically said "the Big East is the only BCS conference that will have partial members like SJU or Marquette."
But if the Big Ten did poach St. John's, it would allow them to put the BTN into NYC. That's a colossal, impossible, never-going-to-happen if. But that doesn't mean it isn't a true statement.
Ok thanks, I was getting confused about where you were coming from. The longer Notre Dame stays indy, and if Texas decides to go indy the better it is for us.