MUScoop
MUScoop => Hangin' at the Al => Topic started by: RyanConroy on September 06, 2011, 07:53:52 PM
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I see this was briefly discussed in his initial topic, but I feel like this deserves to be brought to light in its own thread:
One of my good friends is involved with the basketball program here, and I was surprised hear how impressive Jake Thomas has looked during open gyms and the few early group workouts that have recently commenced. According to him, Jake Thomas has JIMMER range. Check out this video of a 40 point game he had if you haven't already:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l3wcnX4nqYA&feature=related
Anyway, whether he is the complete package or not, let's hope he can step in next hear and pick up some of the offensive production that MU will miss with the loss of DJO and Crowder. Andy Rautins doesn't sound too bad to me, especially considering Thomas is only using a one year scholarship.
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Chris Otule is a junior this year, so next year he can rebound his few misses.
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Whoops, all the better, haha. I saw him play at the BC against Syracuse before I was even a student here (and I'm a junior), so it was odd adjusting to the fact that he was still a Freshman/Sophomore the last couple of years.
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Jake is a tremendous shooter. Marquette is lucky to have him. He will make a difference during his career at MU!
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Maybe he can teach Blue something...
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Maybe he can teach Blue something...
From the looks of it, in practice he'll be teaching everyone on the team how to defend a shooter with ridiculous range.
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Dude has game.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R4ISKrx8Mn0&feature=related
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he aint perfect but he's a warrior.
let it fly jake
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His range is simply ridiculous. Having a player like that walk-on is a huge benefit.
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[especially considering Thomas is only using a one year scholarship.
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All players are on 1 year scholarships...
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He may have range, but his troubles will occur at the other end of the floor.
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He may have range, but his troubles will occur at the other end of the floor.
I am not so sure about that. He has good size for a guard and would be covering the 2 guard and not the quicker point. Of course in the video he was hitting everything in sight. That video reminded me of Ohio St's Diebler.
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He may have range, but his troubles will occur at the other end of the floor.
That would make him unique for Buzz's defense how?
(I'm just warming up for the season here)
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Very nice range. Incredible how bad the defense was on him in the video, though. Even when a defender was standing right next to him, not even a hand was raised to disrupt the shot. Almost comical. Just sayin'.
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I am not so sure about that. He has good size for a guard and would be covering the 2 guard and not the quicker point.
Well....let me just say that reports are that "lateral quickness" is an issue, and while he has OK size for a two guard, strength is an issue. He is going to have trouble keeping people out of the lane.
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[especially considering Thomas is only using a one year scholarship.
All players are on 1 year scholarships...
He is only receiving a scholarship for THIS year. The plan is that he will be playing without scholarship for the rest of his playing career.
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That would make him unique for Buzz's defense how?
(I'm just warming up for the season here)
Part of my contention as to the issues some have with Buzz's defense is:
1) We played a better schedule last year than ever in school history - it stands to reason more talented teams are harder to stop.
2) Due to depth issues in 2009 and 2010 - MU couldn't risk a player to foul out - and as we know - 90% of fouls are picked up on the defensive end.
3) And probably a bigger factor than any is Buzzball 101 which says MU needs to MAKE more free throws than its opponent attempts. MU almost always wins this battle, doesn't put teams in the bonus, as a result of fouling - and fouling is usually the outcome of over-agressive defense. My feeling is MU players are coached to almost allow a basket down low - than being overly aggressive in contesting so as NOT to foul.
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I think the major issues were lack of size giving up too many offensive rebounds, and extending the defense too far out on the perimeter and getting caught out of place when the other team takes advantage of that.
I hope that this gets resolved as Buzz gets more of his type of players in here. Long...rangy...athletic type players that can cover more of the floor in a shorter period of time.
However, that does not describe Jake Thomas.
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3) And probably a bigger factor than any is Buzzball 101 which says MU needs to MAKE more free throws than its opponent attempts. MU almost always wins this battle, doesn't put teams in the bonus, as a result of fouling - and fouling is usually the outcome of over-agressive defense. My feeling is MU players are coached to almost allow a basket down low - than being overly aggressive in contesting so as NOT to foul.
Except Jae Crowder of course, that guy was king of swatting at guys while going for a strip but giving up an easy "And 1".
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Thomas is a lot stronger than he was in high school and I would expect him to be stronger a year from now. They are not going to put him in to play man to man defense. They are going to put him in to stretch the floor on offense.
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bilsu, that is exactly what I am saying. He will fill a role and hopefully excel in that role.
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Amazing range...but how is he in the wide post?
Just askin'. :)
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Well....let me just say that reports are that "lateral quickness" is an issue, and while he has OK size for a two guard, strength is an issue. He is going to have trouble keeping people out of the lane.
he'll fit right in...
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Tremendous video, but I don't expect this guy to make any contributions this year. The defense he saw in that 40 point game was pathetic, and he doesn't appear to have the lateral quickness necessary to defend big east guards. Maybe next season we will see him.
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Tremendous video, but I don't expect this guy to make any contributions this year. The defense he saw in that 40 point game was pathetic, and he doesn't appear to have the lateral quickness necessary to defend big east guards. Maybe next season we will see him.
Umm, he is a redshirt transfer this season, so we won't see him until next year.
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Umm, he is a redshirt transfer this season, so we won't see him until next year.
Well, he's not wrong, he's just not right for the correct reason.
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If Jake Thomas ever plays more than 2 min/game I would be concerned for our recruiting ability.
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Disagree, he can play the whole game against Syracuse and kill them!
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If Jake Thomas ever plays more than 2 min/game I would be concerned for our recruiting ability.
I wouldn't be. I could easily see him getting some minutes, and don't think it'd be a bad thing whatsoever. He'll be a fourth-year junior next year and he can shoot better than anyone we've had since Novak. Whether he's on scholarship at the time or not, that's a valuable asset. I'm not saying he'll be a starter, but if he averages 10 mpg as a fifth-year senior coming off the bench while hitting 40% of his threes (because unlike at USD, he'll never be the defensive focus here), how is that a bad thing?
I'm not saying that will happen, but if Jake Thomas is a good basketball player, good enough to play here, why on earth would that be a bad thing? Because we didn't offer him out of high school?
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Because if Jake Thomas plays 10 mpg, we have completely missed with other recruits at the guard position.
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Because if Jake Thomas plays 10 mpg, we have completely missed with other recruits at the guard position.
Exactly. Also, no sensible program wants a team that plays every player on the bench.
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Exactly. Also, no sensible program wants a team that plays every player on the bench.
Louisville basically plays every player. I think Missouri under Anderson did also. Louisville pressed us, but what really beat us was players hitting the three point shot. In Big East tournament a player came off the bench hit 7? threes against us. I do not expect Thomas to shoot well every game, but I do expect there will be games where he is really on. I expect the same thing from Jones. The season after this the one the player with the hot hand will play.
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Knowing/Watching a ton of basketball games in his high school conference (MCC - St. Cats, Dominican, St. Johns NWMA, BCC, Ra Lu, Brook Academy ... a ton of good basketball played in this conference) - Jake Thomas is a tremendous player, and is better then a normal walk-on.
With that being said, I don't think he sees much time on the court, love that he is on the team, but his skillset is just not top level Big East play.
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It would be interesting to know which posters have seen him play in pro am. I have a feeling that a lot of posters, who say he will not play did not watch him in pro am. I saw him play several times including games against J. Jones. He is better than Jones in my opinion.
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So basically Jake can be the Kyle Korver of MU?
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For some reason this board loves to hype walk-ons, lately off of pick up games.
If you didn't know better and popped in here you'd have thought Dave Singleton was going one and done.
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If you didn't know better and popped in here you'd have thought Dave Singleton was going one and done.
The only problem I have with this is that Singleton never actually played for MU, and it was likely due to off court issues, not on court issues. Obviously he wasn't going to be a one and done, and perhaps he was overhyped, but he may have been a decent role player for us; we'll never know.
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Except Jae Crowder of course, that guy was king of swatting at guys while going for a strip but giving up an easy "And 1".
You apparently never saw Dan Fitzgerald play (and foul). I loved DF's effort, but if JC is the king, DF must have been a supreme emperor.
Here's a good photo stream of Dan's hallmark defense: http://www.zimbio.com/photos/Dan+Fitzgerald
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Because if Jake Thomas plays 10 mpg, we have completely missed with other recruits at the guard position.
Not true at all. Good players get missed. It's the nature of recruiting. So if a mid-major scholarship is good enough to play here by his senior year, we've failed with all our other recruits? That's arrogant nearly beyond belief. There are around 1,000 kids that enter the NCAA ranks every year. Probably at least hundreds more that are good enough to play somewhere but don't get discovered. You think if somehow one that didn't get to a high-major is good enough to play at Marquette, our whole recruiting plan sucks?
Jeez, with that mindset, every high-major coach should be fired because Brad Stevens beat them with players that couldn't be good enough to play there. If Shelvin Mack and Gordon Hayward are good enough for the NBA, then there's no reason Jake Thomas couldn't be good enough for Marquette. I'm glad Buzz is willing to give him a chance. He's guaranteed nothing, but there's absolutely no shame or failure if he earns something.
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He isn't high division one talent brew. He wasn't overlooked like Mack or Hayward. Jake Thomas is who Jake Thomas is - a low level D1 basketball player with one supposedly outstanding skill. (We will see about that in the end.) If he is playing that many minutes, it's because Mayo, Ferguson, etc. aren't performing well - not because he has suddenly become a high major player.
Honestly, the love affair with this board and a walk-on transfer from South Dakota is amazing.
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He isn't high division one talent brew. He wasn't overlooked like Mack or Hayward. Jake Thomas is who Jake Thomas is - a low level D1 basketball player with one supposedly outstanding skill. (We will see about that in the end.) If he is playing that many minutes, it's because Mayo, Ferguson, etc. aren't performing well - not because he has suddenly become a high major player.
Honestly, the love affair with this board and a walk-on transfer from South Dakota is amazing.
You keep mentioning this as if he came from somewhere else. The "love affair" as you describe it is more tied to the fact he is a local product than he is a transfer from South Dakota. Many, not including you, have watched Thomas develop for many years. He is a guy who many saw play live against MU and more than held his own.
Now, do I think he is going to be a difference maker in every game? No. His shooting range, though, will likely get him into the game more regularly than most walkon's. He definitely is not a Frozena. Much more than that.
You expect nothing out of him, which is fine. But your chastizing of others and downgrading Thomas is getting a bit tiresome as well.
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He isn't high division one talent brew. He wasn't overlooked like Mack or Hayward. Jake Thomas is who Jake Thomas is - a low level D1 basketball player with one supposedly outstanding skill. (We will see about that in the end.) If he is playing that many minutes, it's because Mayo, Ferguson, etc. aren't performing well - not because he has suddenly become a high major player.
Honestly, the love affair with this board and a walk-on transfer from South Dakota is amazing.
If I were to guess, Steve Novak, was no better of an athlete than Jake Thomas with regard to quickness, strength, etc. Novak obviously was a Top 100 kid due to his height and shooting ability. Novak was at best a serviceable defender...yet he saw PLENTY of PT at MU.
Jake Thomas, like Novak, has an ELITE level skill - shooting from long range - that no other MU player currently has (other than DJO) (who will be gone next year.) His range can spread the floor for the MU switchables, and he will definitely add value to the team. If he gets more minutes than a Ferguson, Jamail Jones, Mayo - it will only be because he earned more minutes and has proven to be a better player (as a 4th year junior, than Mayo a sophomore and Ferguson a freshman.) Competition is a great thing - Jamail Jones has far more physical tools than Thomas - but will Jamail maximize his talent without a guy like Thomas possibly pushing him for PT?? Probably not. Win-win for everybody - Thomas gets a chance to come home and play, Jamail gets some stiff competition in practice, next year's team can have a zone buster/sniper/role player, etc.
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You keep mentioning this as if he came from somewhere else. The "love affair" as you describe it is more tied to the fact he is a local product than he is a transfer from South Dakota. Many, not including you, have watched Thomas develop for many years. He is a guy who many saw play live against MU and more than held his own.
Now, do I think he is going to be a difference maker in every game? No. His shooting range, though, will likely get him into the game more regularly than most walkon's. He definitely is not a Frozena. Much more than that.
You expect nothing out of him, which is fine. But your chastizing of others and downgrading Thomas is getting a bit tiresome as well.
You can choose not to read my posts you know.
And he "more than held his own" against MU? He went 4-13 from the field. And I don't expect "nothing" out of him. I expect that he will contribute somewhat. Not 10 mpg though. And it is a low risk move since he won't be on scholarship after this year.
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You keep mentioning this as if he came from somewhere else. The "love affair" as you describe it is more tied to the fact he is a local product than he is a transfer from South Dakota. Many, not including you, have watched Thomas develop for many years. He is a guy who many saw play live against MU and more than held his own.
Now, do I think he is going to be a difference maker in every game? No. His shooting range, though, will likely get him into the game more regularly than most walkon's. He definitely is not a Frozena. Much more than that.
You expect nothing out of him, which is fine. But your chastizing of others and downgrading Thomas is getting a bit tiresome as well.
So, is your reasoning that because he's a local kid the hype surrounding him should be tolerated no matter how unreasonable it may be? Didn't we get over that charade last year when a large amount of students ignored some of our own players in their overly enthusiastic, and orgiastic, love for Frozena?
In no sense is Sultan downgrading Thomas. He's simply being truthful in pointing out that Thomas is a walk-on at a program that has aspirations of becoming one of the nationally elite in college basketball. Unless beset by injury, or having caught lightning in a bottle, rare is there an elite program that features a walk-on.
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So, is your reasoning that because he's a local kid the hype surrounding him should be tolerated no matter how unreasonable it may be? Didn't we get over that charade last year when a large amount of students ignored some of our own players in their overly enthusiastic, and orgiastic, love for Frozena?
A better example is David Singleton and the key role that he was going to play on this year's team as a back-up point guard....at least that's what many Scoopers lead me to believe.
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I'm not saying Thomas will be a huge contributor, just that there's no failure if he's better than expected. My honest expectations are that he gives us a bit more than Frozena. I think he's a better player than Rob with one elite skill that could get him some time. But honestly, I'm not expecting more than 3-5 mpg, mostly in non-conference.
But if after a couple years here he's an average defender and our best 3-shooter, I could see him getting some minutes. I'm not saying he'll be another Mack or Hayward, but I'm also not saying he isn't. If he's better than expected and was an overlooked talent, I won't chastise Buzz's recruiting.
My guess is that his biggest contribution will come in practice. Anything else is gravy. But if he gives us gravy, I won't be upset.
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Walk-ons get love because everyone likes an underdog story. Fro was the ultimate teammate, student-athlete, and friend/peer. Fans project the underdog to higher levels beyond their abilities. It is a feel good story that the average student fan relates to. Nothing better than Zar waving his hands on the bench for the Frozen A to jack it up, but instead he throws it to his open teammate on the bench. It is a pity clap.
As I went back and forth with Sultan over the holiday, Thomas has a very unique D1 skill: his range, perhaps best in the BE. In a handful of games, he may get 10 minutes, but otherwise he will get spot or situational BE minutes. However, Thomas has never been a D1 walk-on, and earned a scholie this year. Buzz just does not give these out like candy. The staff is rumored to be very surprised how he has handled himself in open gym in other aspects of the game. He is the ultimate situational role player, but most likely on a bridge scholie.
The Novak comparison is offbase. Steve was uniquely tall and could shoot lights out over a defense. Thomas is not athletic, but he is more athletic than Steve. Steve could shoot over defenses within his range. Thomas needs to step further back to extend his range. At MU, teams had to prepare for Steve to stop him. If teams even think about preparing for Thomas like they did at SD, he will have been worth a scholie but that means MU flamed out on recruiting...but I doubt that will be the case which will be a great thing for a situational shooter off the bench as he will be more effective. Thomas is a Mike Deane recruit, and a role player worth scholie consideration because of that one skill.
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So, is your reasoning that because he's a local kid the hype surrounding him should be tolerated no matter how unreasonable it may be? Didn't we get over that charade last year when a large amount of students ignored some of our own players in their overly enthusiastic, and orgiastic, love for Frozena?
In no sense is Sultan downgrading Thomas. He's simply being truthful in pointing out that Thomas is a walk-on at a program that has aspirations of becoming one of the nationally elite in college basketball. Unless beset by injury, or having caught lightning in a bottle, rare is there an elite program that features a walk-on.
Sultan from day 1 has been taking shots at people who talk positively about Thomas. So, yes in many senses he is downgrading and no, not just being truthful. I doubt he has seen him play in person.
As for paragraph one, yikes. Large leap. Far too broad a brush stroke to even attempt rationalization of your thought.
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A better example is David Singleton and the key role that he was going to play on this year's team as a back-up point guard....at least that's what many Scoopers lead me to believe.
Talent alone, he may have. We will never know. It was not his talent or lack there of that created his departure.
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You can choose not to read my posts you know.
And he "more than held his own" against MU? He went 4-13 from the field. And I don't expect "nothing" out of him. I expect that he will contribute somewhat. Not 10 mpg though. And it is a low risk move since he won't be on scholarship after this year.
As you can choose not to read threads that you know will be bothersome to you. Or, if my responses bother you, you are free to not read my posts as well.
I realize what the ignore buttons are. I did not know that you were the power that decided who should read what. Thanks for clearing that one up. :o
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Thomas is a Mike Deane recruit, and a role player worth scholie consideration because of that one skill.
I agree with everything in the good Doctor's post, but the final sentence is a particularly good closing statement.
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Talent alone, he may have. We will never know. It was not his talent or lack there of that created his departure.
<sigh> I went through this earlier this summer. Yes it was. People with more talent, who faced similar circumstances, are still around. Therefore talent was the reason he is no longer here.
As you can choose not to read threads that you know will be bothersome to you. Or, if my responses bother you, you are free to not read my posts as well.
I realize what the ignore buttons are. I did not know that you were the power that decided who should read what. Thanks for clearing that one up. :o
I was simply commenting on the absurdity of telling someone their posts are tiresome. I truly don't care what you think about my posts. You have the ability to ignore them if you wish. But I'm not going to stop making them.
Hope this helps.
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Sultan from day 1 has been taking shots at people who talk positively about Thomas. So, yes in many senses he is downgrading and no, not just being truthful. I doubt he has seen him play in person.
As for paragraph one, yikes. Large leap. Far too broad a brush stroke to even attempt rationalization of your thought.
Mac - You'll come to learn that Golden Avalanche takes shots at Buzz/MU program with a great deal of consistency. Don't expect any support there. For every 1 "nice" post, there will be about 5 negatives one from Lanche...
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Walk-ons get love because everyone likes an underdog story. Fro was the ultimate teammate, student-athlete, and friend/peer. Fans project the underdog to higher levels beyond their abilities. It is a feel good story that the average student fan relates to. Nothing better than Zar waving his hands on the bench for the Frozen A to jack it up, but instead he throws it to his open teammate on the bench. It is a pity clap.
As I went back and forth with Sultan over the holiday, Thomas has a very unique D1 skill: his range, perhaps best in the BE. In a handful of games, he may get 10 minutes, but otherwise he will get spot or situational BE minutes. However, Thomas has never been a D1 walk-on, and earned a scholie this year. Buzz just does not give these out like candy. The staff is rumored to be very surprised how he has handled himself in open gym in other aspects of the game. He is the ultimate situational role player, but most likely on a bridge scholie.
The Novak comparison is offbase. Steve was uniquely tall and could shoot lights out over a defense. Thomas is not athletic, but he is more athletic than Steve. Steve could shoot over defenses within his range. Thomas needs to step further back to extend his range. At MU, teams had to prepare for Steve to stop him. If teams even think about preparing for Thomas like they did at SD, he will have been worth a scholie but that means MU flamed out on recruiting...but I doubt that will be the case which will be a great thing for a situational shooter off the bench as he will be more effective. Thomas is a Mike Deane recruit, and a role player worth scholie consideration because of that one skill.
Best post in this thread.
Agree 100%. The kid has a shot at becoming a role player (like David Diggs his senior year). But, let's not get carried away (Steve Novak??)
The redshirt year won't make Jake a better athlete, but it will give him some extra time to prepare/strenghten himself in order to maximize his abilities.
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Best post in this thread.
Agree 100%. The kid has a shot at becoming a role player (like David Diggs his senior year). But, let's not get carried away (Steve Novak??)
The redshirt year won't make Jake a better athlete, but it will give him some extra time to prepare/strenghten himself in order to maximize his abilities.
My post may have been a little misleading - I don't think Thomas will be Steve Novak good or even close- but to those questioning Thomas's ability to defend/hold his own athletically and from a strength perspective - Steve Novak wasn't very strong, or athletically gifted - but he had that elite level shooting ability (at 6'10") Novak RARELY ever created a shot off the dribble on his own...he benefited greatly from playing with the Big 3 and D-Wade in his time at MU.
I do think Thomas can be a 10 minute per game guy at MU his last 2 years..
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<sigh> I went through this earlier this summer. Yes it was. People with more talent, who faced similar circumstances, are still around. Therefore talent was the reason he is no longer here.
I was simply commenting on the absurdity of telling someone their posts are tiresome. I truly don't care what you think about my posts. You have the ability to ignore them if you wish. But I'm not going to stop making them.
Hope this helps.
<sigh> If not for his actions, he would still be on the team and who knows how much he would have contributed? I know you do not.
As for the absurdity, it goes both ways. You constantly complaining about those who are constantly was the absurdity and reason for my comment. See, you complained about the frequent comments, yet yours are nearly as frequent.
As for ignoring, you are quick to point that out. Almost hoping. I guess your posts are fine, others who disagree with you are not. Frankly, the majority of your posts are great. So, no I would not ignore. I stick by my comment, though, your frequency on this issue, and in a thread that you know what it would be about, is nearly as tiresome as those who talk about how much of an impact Thomas will have. You can keep posting, and so can I.
Have at the last comment, though, as I am done with this topic and I doubt there is interest in it beyond you.
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<sigh> If not for his actions, he would still be on the team and who knows how much he would have contributed? I know you do not.
As for the absurdity, it goes both ways. You constantly complaining about those who are constantly stating how much Thomas will contribute was the absurdity and reason for my comment. See, you complained about the frequent comments, yet yours are nearly as frequent.
As for ignoring, you are quick to point that out. Almost hoping. I guess your posts are fine, others who disagree with you are not. Frankly, the majority of your posts are great. So, no I would not ignore. I stick by my comment, though, your frequency on this issue, and in a thread that you know what it would be about, is nearly as tiresome as those who talk about how much of an impact Thomas will have. You can keep posting, and so can I.
Have at the last comment, though, as I am done with this topic and I doubt there is interest in it beyond you.
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Sultan from day 1 has been taking shots at people who talk positively about Thomas. So, yes in many senses he is downgrading and no, not just being truthful. I doubt he has seen him play in person.
As for paragraph one, yikes. Large leap. Far too broad a brush stroke to even attempt rationalization of your thought.
Seems like you take more of a personal stake in Thomas if you felt the need to admonish Sultan regarding this topic. I gather that since you're not really upset with his opinion of Thomas, rather, you're are upset with how he defends that opinion against those who look at Thomas in a vastly different manner.
Regarding my first paragraph in the message you quoted, that was an actual question I was asking you.
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My post may have been a little misleading - I don't think Thomas will be Steve Novak good or even close- but to those questioning Thomas's ability to defend/hold his own athletically and from a strength perspective - Steve Novak wasn't very strong, or athletically gifted - but he had that elite level shooting ability (at 6'10") Novak RARELY ever created a shot off the dribble on his own...he benefited greatly from playing with the Big 3 and D-Wade in his time at MU.
I do think Thomas can be a 10 minute per game guy at MU his last 2 years..
So CAN anyone who walks on to the team...
The chances of it happening are tiny.
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Well....let me just say that reports are that "lateral quickness" is an issue, and while he has OK size for a two guard, strength is an issue. He is going to have trouble keeping people out of the lane.
Hopefully, his man won't be able to get into the lane because he'll be looking over at his coach who'll be screaming at him for giving up another three pointer.
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So CAN anyone who walks on to the team...
The chances of it happening are tiny.
I disagree.
The chances of Rob Frozena becoming a 10min per game player were tiny.
The chances of Jake doing it are much better. I'm not saying it's a sure thing, but not all walk-ons are equal.
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I disagree.
The chances of Rob Frozena becoming a 10min per game player were tiny.
The chances of Jake doing it are much better. I'm not saying it's a sure thing, but not all walk-ons are equal.
The many basketball "experts" ::) on this board would disagree. To my recollection, that's what most have been saying regarding both Singleton and Thomas...they weren't/aren't your standard issue walk-on so it wouldn't be that surprising if they were to get a few minutes throughout the course of the year. Of course we'll never know with Singleton. Thomas we won't know for another year+. But, the experts on this board will continue to tell you how right they are anytime the topic comes up between now and then.
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Well, I could be wrong, but I don't think Frozena was going anywhere and averaging 13 ppg, 4 rpg, and 2 apg. Again, anything Thomas gives us is gravy, but to compare him and Frozena seems a bit unfair in terms of basketball ability. I'm not as sold on Singleton. I watched both in the Pro-Am. While some (like Wes Matthews) were really impressed with Singleton, I thought he was average. I didn't see him getting more than a couple minutes.
Thomas, on the other hand, is such a good shooter that I can see him playing. On our team, Thomas will be left unguarded constantly. If he came on the floor with Wilson and Mayo as the other wings, I'm guessing most teams are keying on Wilson and Mayo. Leave that kid open from anywhere within 30 feet and he's got a good shot of hitting it. He may not be ideal defensively, but I imagine he could function within a zone where he doesn't have to keep up as much with an individual.
Again, I don't expect much from Thomas. If he never gets more than 2-4 mpg I'm fine with that because it means our scholarship players are doing what we hope. But if he earns more, I'll be happy with that. He's one of the best shooters I've ever seen come to Marquette, and he'll get open looks if he's on the court. That's not a bad thing.
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Well, I could be wrong, but I don't think Frozena was going anywhere and averaging 13 ppg, 4 rpg, and 2 apg. Again, anything Thomas gives us is gravy, but to compare him and Frozena seems a bit unfair in terms of basketball ability. I'm not as sold on Singleton. I watched both in the Pro-Am. While some (like Wes Matthews) were really impressed with Singleton, I thought he was average. I didn't see him getting more than a couple minutes.
Thomas, on the other hand, is such a good shooter that I can see him playing. On our team, Thomas will be left unguarded constantly. If he came on the floor with Wilson and Mayo as the other wings, I'm guessing most teams are keying on Wilson and Mayo. Leave that kid open from anywhere within 30 feet and he's got a good shot of hitting it. He may not be ideal defensively, but I imagine he could function within a zone where he doesn't have to keep up as much with an individual.
Again, I don't expect much from Thomas. If he never gets more than 2-4 mpg I'm fine with that because it means our scholarship players are doing what we hope. But if he earns more, I'll be happy with that. He's one of the best shooters I've ever seen come to Marquette, and he'll get open looks if he's on the court. That's not a bad thing.
Just to clarify, my comparison to Rob was to show that walk-ons are not created equal.
As far as Thomas' future, I think you are projecting a lot specifics before actually seeing Wilson, Mayo or Thomas wear an MU uniform. A lot of variables in your scenario.
Thomas has a chance to be a role player (eventually) because he can shoot.
We can all agree on that.
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Just to clarify, my comparison to Rob was to show that walk-ons are not created equal.
As far as Thomas' future, I think you are projecting a lot specifics before actually seeing Wilson, Mayo or Thomas wear an MU uniform. A lot of variables in your scenario.
Thomas has a chance to be a role player (eventually) because he can shoot.
We can all agree on that.
Very true, but I'm just using them as examples with Thomas because they're expected to be solid offensive contributors. Add in a Davante Gardner and you've got a lot of offense on the floor before you get to Thomas. If he's out there with other offensive guys, he can be a contributor. It's highly, highly, highly unlikely he'll ever be a star, starter, sixth man, or even full-time scholarship guy, but I do think he can be a useful player. There were quite a few times over the past two years we could have used a situational sniper. Thomas could very easily be that guy.
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Very true, but I'm just using them as examples with Thomas because they're expected to be solid offensive contributors. Add in a Davante Gardner and you've got a lot of offense on the floor before you get to Thomas. If he's out there with other offensive guys, he can be a contributor. It's highly, highly, highly unlikely he'll ever be a star, starter, sixth man, or even full-time scholarship guy, but I do think he can be a useful player. There were quite a few times over the past two years we could have used a situational sniper. Thomas could very easily be that guy.
Has it been specifically stated that this is only a one year scholarship? (I know all schollies are one year, but that is not how recruits are almost ever treated). I wouldn't be a bit surprised if Buzz decides to renew this due to the kids talent, attitude, character, etc..
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Has it been specifically stated that this is only a one year scholarship? (I know all schollies are one year, but that is not how recruits are almost ever treated). I wouldn't be a bit surprised if Buzz decides to renew this due to the kids talent, attitude, character, etc..
Well, it's possible, but we're still recruiting Zach Auguste (he'll be here next Friday) and it seems we're still on Blaise Mbargorba and Philip Nolan. Any of the three would take our last available scholarship for 2012. I don't think Buzz is the kind of guy to give a scholarship he doesn't have to if he can improve the team with it. Maybe if guys transfer we'll see Thomas renewed, but for now, I only expect it to be for this year.
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I was one of the posters who thought Singleton would help (not be a star) MU. That of course was before MU signed Mayo. Mayo I would assume would play before Singleton. However, if you look at last year's preseason pro agility drills Singleton had one of the best times. He had quickness, good size and a decent shot. What I thought about Singleton was that why he was not outstanding in any area, he was good in all areas and he had two years of experience. Contrasting him to Thomas, who is particularly outstanding in one area. Singleton quicker, Thomas taller, Thomas better deep outside shooter. Defensively, Singleton would probably be better than Thomas. Offensively Thomas is better. As far as being able to stay in front of his man all that might mean is Buzz changes his defense when he is in. Think of the combo of Gardner who collapses defenses and Thomas who would spread defenses on the floor at the same time. Neither are what I would consider strong man to man defenders, so put them on the floor at the same time and play a zone. When the other team collapses on Gardner you kick the ball out to Thomas. When the other team goes out to cover Thomas you get the ball inside to Gardner. They could be a very potent combination. Most college players are not solid in all areas, it is up to the coach to maximize their strength's and minimize their weaknesses.
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Well, it's possible, but we're still recruiting Zach Auguste (he'll be here next Friday) and it seems we're still on Blaise Mbargorba and Philip Nolan. Any of the three would take our last available scholarship for 2012. I don't think Buzz is the kind of guy to give a scholarship he doesn't have to if he can improve the team with it. Maybe if guys transfer we'll see Thomas renewed, but for now, I only expect it to be for this year.
It will only be renewed, if we have an unfilled scholarship due to a transfer. Buzz will use all the available scholarships and if past history is an indicator he may even oversign by one.
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Too many factors involved to determine how much Thomas could play on any given day. Will we suffer injuries or transfers that weaken our outside shooting. Will our roster even have an outstanding outside shooter. Then there are game circumstances. Your down big and need as many gunners as you have to get back in it. Players fouling out, Or you need a 3 point shoot at the end to tie a game. Etc., etc. No one can predict. Louisville, Wisconsin and I'm sure other high major programs have used certain walk-on players who have contributed during a season. It can be done if you have a good one but who knows.
What I do know is that Thomas is a way better walk-on then we have had in a long, long time so can others see potential contributions at times other than blow-out wins? Yes. Thomas has range and a great skill level of shooting that can and will be used at some point in time during his career at MU. Be it rarely, spot minutes here or there or consistent 5-10 minutes a game, who knows. I for one am glad that we have here as he will contribute to the team every single day he is here.
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Has it been specifically stated that this is only a one year scholarship? (I know all schollies are one year, but that is not how recruits are almost ever treated). I wouldn't be a bit surprised if Buzz decides to renew this due to the kids talent, attitude, character, etc..
It was stated in the Journal Sentinel Blog piece about Thomas getting a schollie that it was a 1-year deal only.
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I disagree.
The chances of Rob Frozena becoming a 10min per game player were tiny.
The chances of Jake doing it are much better. I'm not saying it's a sure thing, but not all walk-ons are equal.
Frozena's chances of being a 10 min/game 1/1000
Thomas' chances of being a 10 min/game 1/100
10x better chance, but its just not going to happen.
Everyone please save this post and rub it in my face a couple of years from now.
Rather, I'd lay $20 to anyone that Jake Thomas is never a 10mpg player for Marquette.
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Frozena's chances of being a 10 min/game 1/1000
Thomas' chances of being a 10 min/game 1/100
10x better chance, but its just not going to happen.
Everyone please save this post and rub it in my face a couple of years from now.
Rather, I'd lay $20 to anyone that Jake Thomas is never a 10mpg player for Marquette.
Hards - I might owe you from a previous bet on if MU would land a Top 100 "big" in the 2011 class...though it looks like Steve Taylor in 2012 fits the bill...just a year late...nonetheless:
I'll bet you that $20 on Thomas getting 10mpg in his MU career - at the 1/100 odds you place it at!
How about this: $20 bet at 3:1 - If Thomas averages 10+ minutes per game for his MU career - you pay me $60. If he doesn't, I pay you $20.
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Frozena's chances of being a 10 min/game 1/1000
Thomas' chances of being a 10 min/game 1/100
10x better chance, but its just not going to happen.
Everyone please save this post and rub it in my face a couple of years from now.
Rather, I'd lay $20 to anyone that Jake Thomas is never a 10mpg player for Marquette.
I tend to agree with you. I think his playing time will be very specific, if they need a shooter or are playing against a zone. I think he may get some meaningful minutes in some games, non in others. By meaningful, I am not using minutes as a guide, but more focused on quality time - MU does not need a 30 point lead with 50 seconds to go for him to play.
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The way I envision it is the Jones will get the first chance in games to be the designated three point shooter off the bench. Jones so far appears to be very streaky. Jones misses his first two shots and Thomas will get his chance in that game. It will continue that way every game until Thomas proves he is the better shooter.
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Frozena's chances of being a 10 min/game 1/1000
Thomas' chances of being a 10 min/game 1/100
10x better chance, but its just not going to happen.
Everyone please save this post and rub it in my face a couple of years from now.
Rather, I'd lay $20 to anyone that Jake Thomas is never a 10mpg player for Marquette.
That's fair.
I can't disagree because I haven't even see the kid play (other than one game) and I haven't seen any of the current MU frosh. play yet.
I just know that looking at his pedigree and the projected roster, I think he has a shot at getting some role player minutes*.
*One thing to note, Buzz's roster is pretty deep this year, so it will be interesting to see how he utilizes and establishes "roles". He hasn't really established roles in the past, but simply gone with the best match-up or hot-hand.
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I think the best possibility for Thomas is (obviously) as a sniper from the guard position. The reason I think he can get minutes is because when he comes in and you look at the make-up of our roster, there's definitely room for someone to get time in that type of role. Let's look at the guys he'll probably be competing with for minutes from 2012-14 that we know of:
Jamil Wilson: Should get a lot of minutes, good 3-point shooter, but not necessarily his strength. Will probably play more 3 than 2, where I'd expect to see Thomas.
Vander Blue: Direct competition, should be playing, but not half the shooter Thomas is. I could easily see Blue developing into a 25-30 mpg guy, but when we need a 3, you'd think Thomas would sooner see the floor.
Jamail Jones: Streaky shooter, will he develop into a big minute guy? If he develops consistency, you'd think athleticism and size would give him the edge over Thomas. Question mark right now.
Juan Anderson: Has improved his 3-point shooting, but will probably primarily play the 3 and isn't near the sniper Thomas is.
Todd Mayo: He sounds like a pure scorer, but a better driver than shooter; however, still reportedly a good shooter. I would guess Mayo is the most evident roadblock to Thomas getting minutes.
All of that may mean nothing, but no one that we have at the wing positions have proven themselves to be deadeye shooters like Thomas. I think that's a big reason why people can see him getting minutes. Acker and Cooby are gone. Lazar is gone. DJO will be gone, as will Crowder. Granted, there are a lot of candidates to develop into that our primary shooters from range, but to date, Thomas is the most proven long-range shooter we have in those two years. I'm sure a lot will change between now and then, but for limited minutes (and I still think 10 mpg is probably an absolute best-case scenario) there's definitely a niche he could fill on this team of slashers and drivers.
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I'm hoping that Thomas doesn't get any minutes only because I hope that the rest of our options at the 2 are playing out of their minds. Nothing against Thomas, but we have a number of players that have so much more potential. If he's grabbing clutch minutes then it means that there's going to be quite a bit of disappointment from the fanbase about production from our other student-athletes, imo.
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If he can hit free throws (especially down the stretch), I'm all about him being on the team. However, I would also like him to be our last option in those scenarios.
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Jake Thomas will get as many minutes as he earns - that could be 0.. it could be 20. If he beats another guy out who is more highly regarded based on high school ranking - he'll have earned it. There are many cases where a lower rated recruit outperforms a Top 100 kid. It is no cause for concern, nor should the fanbase become critical of the Top 100 kid.
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Let Jake Thomas be Jake Thomas, if he comes in beats out Vander or Mayo, so be it. He will beat them out in practice, the other players
will know, remember Bill Neary, was he better than or higher ranked than Bernard Toone, not even close. Chemistry makes a big difference on
a team as well. If he is the best shooter on the team and Syracuse wants to play zone, let him be the zone breaker. He has impressive range.
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If he can hit free throws (especially down the stretch), I'm all about him being on the team. However, I would also like him to be our last option in those scenarios.
That is a good point. You obviosuly need to have ball handlers in. However, based on past performance Cadougan, Blue and Otule do not make a high percentage of free throws so I would not expect them to be all on the floor at the same time at the end of a close game.
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Jake Thomas will get as many minutes as he earns - that could be 0.. it could be 20. If he beats another guy out who is more highly regarded based on high school ranking - he'll have earned it. There are many cases where a lower rated recruit outperforms a Top 100 kid. It is no cause for concern, nor should the fanbase become critical of the Top 100 kid.
Thanks for the pep talk coach! ;D