Sounds like us and ucf are recruiting him the hardest. I wonder how good he is compared to dunn.
Lee is a borderline 3-4 star player, sounds like he has a similar game to Reggie Smith from what I've read. Dunn, on the other hand, seems to me to be an elite point guard. Just my opinion, but he's soared from outside the top-100 to the top-50 to the top-30 in the past few months. He seems like a guy just realizing how good he is.
I think Lee would be a very nice concession if we didn't get Dunn, but right now, Dunn definitely looks like the better get.
Well, he claims that MU and UCF are pushing the hardest. This leads me to believe that Buzz thinks Dunn is no longer an option.
Pass.
If Buzz wants him, he knows more than any of us do Ted....
Quote from: The Sultan of South Wayne on August 11, 2011, 09:06:35 PM
If Buzz wants him, he knows more than any of us do Ted....
Yes, and there's more to college basketball than lacing them up.
Quote from: The Sultan of South Wayne on August 11, 2011, 08:28:16 PMWell, he claims that MU and UCF are pushing the hardest. This leads me to believe that Buzz thinks Dunn is no longer an option.
Not necessarily. Buzz may just really want a point in this class, so he's all in for Dunn and also all in for Lee if that falls through. I'm guessing most of the contact is coming in the form of short phone calls...Buzz and his assistants probably make many phone calls per day, Lee's perception of how hard we're pushing doesn't necessarily reflect how hard we're pushing for Dunn.
How much of a chance do we realistically have with dunn? , I've been trying to figure that out for some time.
Quote from: GoMarquette32 on August 11, 2011, 09:25:41 PMHow much of a chance do we realistically have with dunn? , I've been trying to figure that out for some time.
It depends on who you ask. Scout experts Evan Daniels and Brian Snow think we're in the race but that Louisville and UConn are in the lead. However, I've heard that Dunn doesn't get along well with UConn recruit Omar Calhoun and may not want to play with him. According to Rivals writer Eric Bossi, Marquette is the favorite and everyone in Las Vegas felt we were the team to beat for Dunn's signature. That was maybe 2 weeks ago. Dunn doesn't have a Twitter account and it sounds like he may be content to take his time, so it's tough to get a good read on this one.
I would really hate forhim to go to louisville.
Quote from: brewcity77 on August 11, 2011, 08:15:58 PM
Lee is a borderline 3-4 star player, sounds like he has a similar game to Reggie Smith from what I've read. Dunn, on the other hand, seems to me to be an elite point guard. Just my opinion, but he's soared from outside the top-100 to the top-50 to the top-30 in the past few months. He seems like a guy just realizing how good he is.
I think Lee would be a very nice concession if we didn't get Dunn, but right now, Dunn definitely looks like the better get.
The Brett Roseboro story leads me to be wary about guys who "explode" and soar up the rankings. Doesn't mean Dunn would be like Roseboro, but the simple fact that he has climb so much so quickly doesn't really mean all that much.
Quote from: mug644 on August 11, 2011, 11:26:29 PMThe Brett Roseboro story leads me to be wary about guys who "explode" and soar up the rankings. Doesn't mean Lee would be like Roseboro, but the simple fact that he has climb so much so quickly doesn't really mean all that much.
That's Dunn, not Lee. And Dunn is different from Roseboro in my opinion because he's been doing it against all the best. The general consensus is that he's the best point guard in the class. And he has scoring chops to boot. He's been in Andre Drummond's shadow, which is why he wasn't as highly rated. But since he's realized a bit how good he actually is, he's taken off. Totally different than the Beast.
Quote from: brewcity77 on August 11, 2011, 11:31:05 PM
That's Dunn, not Lee. And Dunn is different from Roseboro in my opinion because he's been doing it against all the best. The general consensus is that he's the best point guard in the class. And he has scoring chops to boot. He's been in Andre Drummond's shadow, which is why he wasn't as highly rated. But since he's realized a bit how good he actually is, he's taken off. Totally different than the Beast.
Right. I meant Dunn and have made the correction in my post. Fair point about the competition level, though my wariness about fast climbers remains. Still, I hope we get him and I hope he succeeds for us.
And whats the word ok cleare? Any interest from him?
Quote from: GoMarquette32 on August 12, 2011, 12:05:05 AM
And whats the word ok cleare? Any interest from him?
We're in his final seven.
Quote from: mug644 on August 11, 2011, 11:26:29 PM
The Brett Roseboro story leads me to be wary about guys who "explode" and soar up the rankings. Doesn't mean Dunn would be like Roseboro, but the simple fact that he has climb so much so quickly doesn't really mean all that much.
Many differences between the two. Dunn has done it consistently. While he "skyrocketed", he was already highly thought of (top 100 guy) and considered. Roseboro shot up based on one tournament - and did not jump into the top 100. Dunn is also a much better athlete.
Further, MU has been on Dunn for a very long time.
Roseboro is not the appropo comparison, IMHO.
Quote from: TedBaxter on August 11, 2011, 09:07:26 PM
Yes, and there's more to college basketball than lacing them up.
I'm not sure what you mean by this. Do you have concerns about Lee off the basketball court?
No concerns and I shouldn't have said pass. The coaches see the players, talk to their coaches and hopefully get to know these players well enough to feel they are a fit and that includes every player they scout and offer.
If Lee is the guy they want, then he's the one they want. If it was me, I'd rather look inside for a 4/5, but I'm not the coach.
OK Ted....fair enough. Thanks for the reply.
Quote from: mug644 on August 11, 2011, 11:26:29 PM
The Brett Roseboro story leads me to be wary about guys who "explode" and soar up the rankings. Doesn't mean Dunn would be like Roseboro, but the simple fact that he has climb so much so quickly doesn't really mean all that much.
Dwyane Wade "exploded" in Bob Gibbon's rankings (unranked to #55 with a bullet) and he worked out ok. Roseboro never really soared up the rankings. He had a couple of good showings in AAU tourneys and was 6'9'', but never sniffed the top 100.
I'm with Ted. As the roster stands now, we'll only have 3 4's or 5's for 2012-13: Otule, Gardner and Taylor (Wilson's too much of a perimeter player to be considered a 4). Depth up front is already an issue this season and I don't want it to be an ongoing concern.
I really expect us to oversign. I think one or two players will transfer out after this season, because they will not envision seeing the playing time they want in the future.
Quote from: mug644 on August 11, 2011, 11:41:11 PM
Right. I meant Dunn and have made the correction in my post. Fair point about the competition level, though my wariness about fast climbers remains. Still, I hope we get him and I hope he succeeds for us.
Dunn also led his team to the Conn. state championship and was named MVP. Dunn was outside the top 100 but still a 3 star type player which at the end of the day is really really good. Roseboro was top 500, a 1 star and his team was sub .500 if i recall in small division basketball... huge differences
Quote from: bilsu on August 12, 2011, 09:45:26 AM
I really expect us to oversign. I think one or two players will transfer out after this season, because they will not envision seeing the playing time they want in the future.
I hope we get a big like Cleare or Auguste...and a point like Dunn or Lee. And then see what transpires at the end of the season. I agree with you that I belive there will be a transfer simply based on history.
Quote from: Canadian Dimes on August 12, 2011, 09:56:50 AM
Dunn also led his team to the Conn. state championship and was named MVP. Dunn was outside the top 100 but still a 3 star type player which at the end of the day is really really good. Roseboro was top 500, a 1 star and his team was sub .500 if i recall in small division basketball... huge differences
But he's a beast.
Having made the comparison between Dunn climbing rapidly and Roseboro "soaring" I take all the good points and pull back completely on it.
Doesn't change my hesitation with such a quick climber (though the Wade example most certainly should convince me), perhaps simply because I think these things are better looked at with a long-term perspective.
It also reiterates what disaster the Roseboro signing was. And reaffirms was a good choice all the way around it was to have him leave before even getting into his freshman year.
I think that where the coaches made the mistake and Roseboro was his work ethic. They knew he was a project. A 6'10" player who had an outside shot. However, when he got here he did not show he had the dedication to work as hard as Buzz wants and they both quickly realized it was a bad fit. I think Yous also did not want to work as hard. That is what happens when you take projects. The coaches look at potential and that potential only has a chance to be reached if the player works hard. Both Otule and Gardner are hard workers, if they were not they would of flamed out also.
Quote from: brewcity77 on August 11, 2011, 11:31:05 PM
That's Dunn, not Lee. And Dunn is different from Roseboro in my opinion because he's been doing it against all the best. The general consensus is that he's the best point guard in the class. And he has scoring chops to boot. He's been in Andre Drummond's shadow, which is why he wasn't as highly rated. But since he's realized a bit how good he actually is, he's taken off. Totally different than the Beast.
He was Connecticut State Player of the Year and lead his HS team to the state championship. Here's an article from thi spast April.
http://www.nhregister.com/articles/2011/04/17/sports/high_school/doc4dab533461b0d756371457.txt
Quote from: mug644 on August 12, 2011, 11:17:47 AM
Doesn't change my hesitation with such a quick climber (though the Wade example most certainly should convince me), perhaps simply because I think these things are better looked at with a long-term perspective.
Without investigating, I would suspect that the percentages are on your side of that argument. The difference for me with Dunn is that I know MU was very high on him and wanted either York or Dunn prior to Dunn's rising up the charts. Otherwise, if we were new to the game, I would have the same gut feeling that you stated.
Like Boone said earlier, Get a good big, don't want this to be an ongoing problem.
Hope Ray Lee is as good as Butch Lee.
Quote from: bilsu on August 12, 2011, 11:43:09 AM
I think that where the coaches made the mistake and Roseboro was his work ethic. They knew he was a project. A 6'10" player who had an outside shot. However, when he got here he did not show he had the dedication to work as hard as Buzz wants and they both quickly realized it was a bad fit. I think Yous also did not want to work as hard. That is what happens when you take projects. The coaches look at potential and that potential only has a chance to be reached if the player works hard. Both Otule and Gardner are hard workers, if they were not they would of flamed out also.
Very insightful comment, and related to the recent thread on Goodman's article on the 2002 McD's class. Guys that are not as good naturally as others MUST have the internal drive to work hard and improve. It is tougher for highly ranked guys to find that internal motivation, hence too many flameouts.
Back to this thread (though wasn't it originally about Ray Lee?!), maybe Dunn has and had demonstrated that work ethic, justifying a jump in his rankings. Let's hope so, and hope that Buzz can land him...and that his higher ranking doesn't diminish his commitment to hard work and improvement.
MU still has the same problem it had under Crean. Crean and Buzz both identify players they see have great potential and are the first after them.
Dunn and McGary have both blown up. McGary who oringinally had great interest in MU is no longer considering MU as the elite programs are now afer him. Dunn does not have the elites after him, but his suiters are rising and that puts MU at risk of losing a player they felt they had a great shot at.
ESPN's updated rankings have Dunn as the #2 PG in the class.
http://espn.go.com/mens-college-basketball/recruiting/player/_/id/110410/kris-dunn
Quote from: bilsu on August 13, 2011, 09:45:01 AM
MU still has the same problem it had under Crean. Crean and Buzz both identify players they see have great potential and are the first after them.
It seems like Buzz has better back up plans however.
Quote from: Lennys Tap on August 12, 2011, 09:06:22 AM
Dwyane Wade "exploded" in Bob Gibbon's rankings (unranked to #55 with a bullet) and he worked out ok. Roseboro never really soared up the rankings. He had a couple of good showings in AAU tourneys and was 6'9'', but never sniffed the top 100.
the Beast dominated J may in a tournament, and buzz offered.
Quote from: ZiggysF*ckinFryBoy on August 13, 2011, 10:14:32 PM
the Beast dominated J may in a tournament, and buzz offered.
and both turned out to issues with their head. i think both of those players could have been solid contributers at mu had they worked hard and done what buzz asked of them. the toughest part of buzz's recruiting has to be trying to figure out what kids are going to be hard workers and what kids aren't mentally strong enough to make it.