Texas A&M Rival's site is reporting that the move to SEC is a "done deal" and will be announced officially August 22nd. I obviously have no idea how confirmed this is but if it is, the next move is the one that determines the fate of the B12 - and possibly the BE.
I have to think if A&M is going to the SEC, they'll try to add another team as well. Just to keep with two equal divisions...maybe Missouri (just guessing) as they already were ready to bolt if the Big Ten had offered. I imagine K-State, Kansas, and Oklahoma would all be very appealing to the SEC as well.
Clemson? Add one to the east and one to the west divisions. That would prevent a realignment of divisions and Clemson & A$M would then be the protected crossover game for football.
Missouri is another option. I don't feel that OU will go, they are too tethered to Texas.
Quote from: Husker4MU on August 11, 2011, 07:58:07 PMClemson? Add one to the east and one to the west divisions. That would prevent a realignment of divisions and Clemson & A$M would then be the protected crossover game for football.
Missouri is another option. I don't feel that OU will go, they are too tethered to Texas.
I hope not, but it makes sense. I'd like to see the Big 12 as the only major conference to collapse here...seems like if the ACC starts failing, all the dominoes could fall leading to a complete restructuring of the Big 12, ACC, and Big East to keep up with the Big Ten, SEC, and PAC-10. And if that happens, my guess is our lack of football puts us on the outside looking in.
But it would make sense... :-\
Bwhahahahah....KState and Kansas are appealing to the best football conference in America? Umm....yeah...sure bud. No one cares about bball...how much evidence do u need? How bout this; The last two expansion teams of the B10 have been Penn State and Nebraska. Super awesome bball schools! LOL!
I wonder of UL, Auburn, VTech or WVU are in play? Mizzou isn't SEC level. WVU is for sure. Yes, Hughins helped, but WVU is 100% football.
Quote from: muhs03 on August 11, 2011, 08:13:09 PMBwhahahahah....KState and Kansas are appealing to the best football conference in America? Umm....yeah...sure bud. No one cares about bball...how much evidence do u need? How bout this; The last two expansion teams of the B10 have been Penn State and Nebraska. Super awesome bball schools! LOL!
I wonder of UL, Auburn, VTech or WVU are in play? Mizzou isn't SEC level. WVU is for sure. Yes, Hughins helped, but WVU is 100% football.
K-State was becoming a pretty good football team under Bill Snyder, and his return had them back in a bowl game for only the second time since he took them to a top-ten ranking and the Fiesta Bowl in the 2003 season. It's not unthinkable that with Snyder back at the helm K-State could return to being a very good football program, especially if they moved to the SEC.
Kansas might be a harder sell, but they did win a BCS bowl just 4 years ago. Another program on the build (if Turner Gill can get them back in the right direction) and doesn't the SEC West need its own version of Kentucky?
Quote from: brewcity77 on August 11, 2011, 08:24:34 PM
K-State was becoming a pretty good football team under Bill Snyder, and his return had them back in a bowl game for only the second time since he took them to a top-ten ranking and the Fiesta Bowl in the 2003 season. It's not unthinkable that with Snyder back at the helm K-State could return to being a very good football program, especially if they moved to the SEC.
Kansas might be a harder sell, but they did win a BCS bowl just 4 years ago. Another program on the build (if Turner Gill can get them back in the right direction) and doesn't the SEC West need its own version of Kentucky?
Umm...they lost to Syracuse in their bowl game. Nuff said. UL and WVU are WAY better options. The SEC doesn't care about bball (how has A&M done post season?????).
Not a chance the SEC looks at KU or KSU. Mizzou maybe, but my guess is that Oklahoma, Florida State and Va Tech top their list.
If true-- this is big news
(Yes --I saw what occured on my last post--just a joke--wow)
Mark Gottfried (yes, him) tweeted that he's hearing FSU. Chip Brown of Orangebloods.com says the SEC is looking to add A$M, OU, OSU and Va Tech.
I hope it's just A$M and either VaTech/Clemson/FSU. That would leave a spot open in the ACC for West Virginia and maybe this will all settle down.
The ripple effects to the Big East could be damaging. I know that Marinatto says that they aren't looking to kick out members, but they will have to if they add 2+ new members.
Additionally, what will Delany do? Missouri? Maryland? Rutgers? Cuse?
you know what? I'm just waiting for this board to realize that no one cares about bball NCAA credits or attendance. think about it; Nebraska, Penn State, A&M...throw in VTech, Miami, and BC. Yeah....super bball heavyweights being thrown around...never mind the PAC10's expansion....Utah...Colorado and whoever else. Think about it; if MU was a fball school...how would u feel about expansion? Not so good! U think WVU is dying to stick with MU, DePaul, Seton Hall, Providence, Nova, GU and SJU? Yeah...total loyaly! LOL
Quote from: muhs03 on August 11, 2011, 08:29:09 PMUmm...they lost to Syracuse in their bowl game. Nuff said. UL and WVU are WAY better options. The SEC doesn't care about bball (how has A&M done post season?????).
WVU is maybe a better option, but to say UL is a WAY better option...uhh...on what grounds? Because they came back to win the Beef O'Brady's Bowl? That's amusing. Or because they had one BCS appearance in 2006?
Here's the thing...this is all about money. Louisville doesn't open up any new markets because Kentucky is a bigger factor in the state. West Virginia opens a new market, but is a smaller (slightly) school than Kansas with a smaller fanbase and less than half the endowment. Jayhawk Nation is huge and I think that opening up Kansas as a market is worth more than opening up West Virginia, if for no other reason than the 1,000,000 difference in population between the states.
Ranking the four, I'd say 1) Kansas, 2) West Virginia, 3) Kansas State, 4) Louisville (and distant). Without a doubt, Kansas will bring the most money. A&M made more sense than any of them because of the size of the university and the opening to the state of Texas. But in terms of fanbases, Kansas would rank second.
Virginia Tech, on the other hand, may be more lucrative than any of those four.
Quote from: muhs03 on August 11, 2011, 08:13:09 PM
I wonder of UL, Auburn, VTech or WVU are in play? Mizzou isn't SEC level. WVU is for sure. Yes, Hughins helped, but WVU is 100% football.
You lost any and all credibility. Auburn is going to leave...the SEC...to go to...the SEC? Interesting plan.
Nobody is saying if you have a good basketball program you are in.
Quote from: muhs03 on August 11, 2011, 09:06:30 PM
you know what? I'm just waiting for this board to realize that no one cares about bball NCAA credits or attendance. think about it; Nebraska, Penn State, A&M...throw in VTech, Miami, and BC. Yeah....super bball heavyweights being thrown around...never mind the PAC10's expansion....Utah...Colorado and whoever else. Think about it; if MU was a fball school...how would u feel about expansion? Not so good! U think WVU is dying to stick with MU, DePaul, Seton Hall, Providence, Nova, GU and SJU? Yeah...total loyaly! LOL
If MU was a football school, I'd feel great about expansion. We'd be in a BCS conference as a football program. And we'd probably be in a decent shot to reach a BCS bowl. If UConn could get there, why couldn't we? (assuming we had and always had had football)
What a silly statement :-\
Sorry, I meant Clemson, not Auburn.
Brewcity: If you think that way, then you are dismissing the fact that the BE expanded with bball-only schools to balance the voting power. IF MU had a fball team, we would never have been invited into the BE in the first place (unless you think Wisco is better recruiting grounds than KY, OH and FL.) I'll give you KY but MU doesnt have the track record in bball that UL has in bball.
Quote from: muhs03 on August 11, 2011, 09:50:08 PM
Sorry, I meant Clemson, not Auburn.
Brewcity: If you think that way, then you are dismissing the fact that the BE expanded with bball-only schools to balance the voting power. IF MU had a fball team, we would never have been invited into the BE in the first place (unless you think Wisco is better recruiting grounds than KY, OH and FL.) I'll give you KY but MU doesnt have the track record in bball that UL has in bball.
And UL doesn't have the track record in basketball that KU has in basketball.
Kansas would be the pick over UL in a heartbeat, and probably West Virginia too.
Quote from: brewcity77 on August 11, 2011, 09:52:46 PM
And UL doesn't have the track record in basketball that KU has in basketball.
Kansas would be the pick over UL in a heartbeat, and probably West Virginia too.
Huh? Im talking about the last BE expansion - in which you stated that MU would be in a BCS conference if we had football despite the fact that the last BE expansion (ex-TCU) was about balancing voter power.
You need to review UL's performance in the BE and the national rankings and compare that to KU....or KSU. LOL. I guess you think KSU is slowly becoming a fball power. If so, I cant imagine what you think about Syracuse (considering they beat them during what you proclaim to be a Renaissance year).
Quote from: muhs03 on August 11, 2011, 10:02:41 PMHuh? Im talking about the last BE expansion - in which you stated that MU would be in a BCS conference if we had football despite the fact that the last BE expansion (ex-TCU) was about balancing voter power.
You need to review UL's performance in the BE and the national rankings and compare that to KU....or KSU. LOL. I guess you think KSU is slowly becoming a fball power. If so, I cant imagine what you think about Syracuse (considering they beat them during what you proclaim to be a Renaissance year).
If it was just about how good the football program is, they'd be after TCU and Boise State, the best non-BCS (well, at least until next year for TCU) teams. Flagship state schools are desirable. Moneymakers are desirable. If you think Louisville is going to be more lucrative than Kansas, you have no clue about what drives the economics of sports.
Look at it like this...which team makes more money, the Brewers or the Cubs? The answer is the Cubs, and it's not even close. While the Brewers clearly have the better team, the Cubs have a fanbase that dwarfs the Brewers. Kansas has a much bigger fanbase than Louisville has. They are the flagship state school in Kansas. The SEC already has the flagship state school in Kentucky. Louisville brings nothing comparably to the table.
And you fail to realize why K-State's situation is improved. You really think one game against Syracuse means anything in the grand scheme of things? K-State was on the verge of becoming a national powerhouse when Bill Snyder retired. If he can replicate his success, they will get back there. However, due to his age, that might be unrealistic. Which is why I'd put K-State behind WVU.
But Kansas is still the winner of all of those schools. Biggest student base, biggest alumni base, biggest television market addition. In terms of football success, WVU would likely have about as much success as Kansas in their early years in the SEC, which is virtually none. As much as WVU is better than Kansas, neither of them are at an SEC level.
I know exactly what drives conference expansion: 1) tv markets 2) football
KU and UL have the same stadium capacity for football. UL has far more upside as they are the most profitable AD in the entire BE. Sure, KU is a new market but their football isnt trending higher than UL's. I'll give you the fact that UL doesnt offer new tv markets like KU does....but I never said UL (or KU) is the next in line for the SEC. The SEC has said that they dont want to add schools that are already in their footprint (so that kinda eliminates UL). Not disagreeing there. I WILL disagree that there are MUCH better options that KU or KSU for the SEC....namely VTech, WVU, or Maryland. If conference politics dont get in the way, GTech and FSU are better options that KU.
Quote from: muhs03 on August 11, 2011, 10:40:13 PM
I know exactly what drives conference expansion: 1) tv markets 2) football
KU and UL have the same stadium capacity for football. UL has far more upside as they are the most profitable AD in the entire BE. Sure, KU is a new market but their football isnt trending higher than UL's. I'll give you the fact that UL doesnt offer new tv markets like KU does....but I never said UL (or KU) is the next in line for the SEC. The SEC has said that they dont want to add schools that are already in their footprint (so that kinda eliminates UL). Not disagreeing there. I WILL disagree that there are MUCH better options that KU or KSU for the SEC....namely VTech, WVU, or Maryland. If conference politics dont get in the way, GTech and FSU are better options that KU.
Va Tech, yes. WVU, no way. Maryland...hmm...probably. Georgia Tech, no, they already have Georgia. Florida State...while they have Florida, I think I'd say yes. That's just too big of a football power with a massive fanbase.
Okay, adding all those in, I'd rank...
1) Florida State
2) Virginia Tech
3) Maryland
4) Kansas
5) West Virginia
6) Kansas State
7) Georgia Tech
8) Louisville
The only real debate I could see is FSU and VT as 1/2. FSU has a huge alumni base and track record of success, but VT has been very successful over the past 20 years, brings a new market (Virginia is the 12th largest state), and is the more successful program in recent memory. Close call. I'd say that there's a huge dropoff from #5 to #6. While K-State brings a new audience, it's not a major state school like the top five. Probably just as big a drop from 6 to 7. Georgia Tech and Louisville are mid-level football programs and don't bring new markets.
Nebraska was a big fish catch TO Big 10 last year, as is TAMU, for SEC . The biggest fish are mostly in the SEC, and Big 10...(with B12 UT, and OU, Pac 10 USC,and Indep ND)
Forbes Most Valuable College Football Teams
College Football's Most Valuable Teams according to Forbes
School (Million)
1) Texas ($119)
2) Notre Dame ($108)
3) Penn State ($99)
4) Nebraska ($93)
5) Alabama ($92)
6) Florida ($88)
7) Louisiana State ($86)
8) Ohio State ($85)
9) Georgia ($84)
10) Oklahoma ($83)
11) Michigan ($81)
12) South Carolina ($80)
13) Tennessee ($78)
14) Auburn ($70)
15) Southern California ($68)
16) Michigan State ($57)
17) Arkansas ($56)
18) Texas A&M ($52)
19) Wisconsin ($48)
20) Oklahoma State ($47)
Quote from: brewcity77 on August 11, 2011, 11:10:19 PM
Va Tech, yes. WVU, no way. Maryland...hmm...probably. Georgia Tech, no, they already have Georgia. Florida State...while they have Florida, I think I'd say yes. That's just too big of a football power with a massive fanbase.
Okay, adding all those in, I'd rank...
1) Florida State
2) Virginia Tech
3) Maryland
4) Kansas
5) West Virginia
6) Kansas State
7) Georgia Tech
8) Louisville
Meh, Fine. BUt like I said, the SEC commish said he isnt in favor of expanding the conference in states in which they dont already have a presence. Granted, he may change his mind if the value-add is too good to pass up...
1) VTech - solid fball. own the state. new market. will UVA oppose them leaving since the Gov. made sure the ACC got them instead of Cuse? New Gov so maybe it wont matter.
2) FSU - overlaps market. FLA would likely oppose. turned down SEC once. forget it.
3) WVU - fball first. throw in baseball. basketball is a cherry. they own the state. state-wide following. bread and butter of the BE nowadays. decent record against SEC.
4) GTech - overlapping market. UGA would oppose. forget it.
5) Maryland - meh. new market. too yankee for the SEC. Randy Edsall is a buzz-kill.
6) UL - making money. uptrend in fball but overlapps market. gives doormat UK fball a rival...big time
7) who cares. wont get this far. the SEC will never accept KU or KSU with their BE-level fball stadiums. better off assuming UC has a chance.
Now they are essentially saying that things aren't 100% done yet, for instance the ADs have yet to vote on adding A&M, but you can be sure that things haven't gone this far without the SEC commish having deep coversations with A&M.
Full Disclosure: Best case scenario is that we stay in the Big East. Not even a question.
But if the dominoes do fall, I wish that Marquette would get together with other basketball only schools and form their own conference. You could get DePaul (for the chicago TV market), Notre Dame if they want to stay independent, Georgetown, St. Johns, Nova (depending on if they want their football to stay below D1), Xavier, Providence, Seton Hall, maybe Bucknell (football is less than D1 I think), Butler???. The list could easily be refined, I just threw some names out there.
Granted there are lots of challenges, but any conference restructuring poses challenges. The key is to get schools from decent TV markets and make sure the quality of the basketball competition is extremely good. Yes a basketball only conference will never be able to get the money like any of the major BCS conferences, but without having to support football, you don't need as large of revenue. As long as the quality of play is good, and you have multiple teams in the tournament every year, you could make it work. If you are a good conference, and only basketball, you could pitch that to recruits.
I will again say, staying in the Big East is a far better scenario. However, if conference realignment happens, I absolutely believe it would be better to form a great basketball only conference and focus on that niche than being relegated to some other mid-major conference.
Quote from: brewcity77 on August 11, 2011, 09:09:44 PM
WVU is maybe a better option, but to say UL is a WAY better option...uhh...on what grounds? Because they came back to win the Beef O'Brady's Bowl? That's amusing. Or because they had one BCS appearance in 2006?
Here's the thing...this is all about money. Louisville doesn't open up any new markets because Kentucky is a bigger factor in the state. West Virginia opens a new market, but is a smaller (slightly) school than Kansas with a smaller fanbase and less than half the endowment. Jayhawk Nation is huge and I think that opening up Kansas as a market is worth more than opening up West Virginia, if for no other reason than the 1,000,000 difference in population between the states.
Ranking the four, I'd say 1) Kansas, 2) West Virginia, 3) Kansas State, 4) Louisville (and distant). Without a doubt, Kansas will bring the most money. A&M made more sense than any of them because of the size of the university and the opening to the state of Texas. But in terms of fanbases, Kansas would rank second.
Virginia Tech, on the other hand, may be more lucrative than any of those four.
Kansas is all about basketball. Do they really want to be in the same conference with Kentucky and take the chance they become the second best team in the conference? Would Kentucky really want Kansas in the SEC?
Assuming the SEC picks off an ACC team, I think that would open the door for Maryland to go to Big 10 and Boston College to return to Big East. I think the most likely senario is that the ACC remains in tack or adds two teams. Ading teams would come at the expense of the Big East, so let us hope the ACC stands pat. The Big 12 has to scatter.
Another Update: The timeline is being moved up apparently due to the Texas Higher Education Committee calling for a meeting on Tuesday.
The SEC Presidents are due to meet on Sunday. The A&M Board of Regents is due to meet Monday. Rumors are that Florida State is going to be invited too.
Quote from: Abode4life on August 12, 2011, 08:37:24 AM
Full Disclosure: Best case scenario is that we stay in the Big East. Not even a question.
But if the dominoes do fall, I wish that Marquette would get together with other basketball only schools and form their own conference. You could get DePaul (for the chicago TV market), Notre Dame if they want to stay independent, Georgetown, St. Johns, Nova (depending on if they want their football to stay below D1), Xavier, Providence, Seton Hall, maybe Bucknell (football is less than D1 I think), Butler???. The list could easily be refined, I just threw some names out there.
Granted there are lots of challenges, but any conference restructuring poses challenges. The key is to get schools from decent TV markets and make sure the quality of the basketball competition is extremely good. Yes a basketball only conference will never be able to get the money like any of the major BCS conferences, but without having to support football, you don't need as large of revenue. As long as the quality of play is good, and you have multiple teams in the tournament every year, you could make it work. If you are a good conference, and only basketball, you could pitch that to recruits.
I will again say, staying in the Big East is a far better scenario. However, if conference realignment happens, I absolutely believe it would be better to form a great basketball only conference and focus on that niche than being relegated to some other mid-major conference.
Welcome, here to your postings on the board.
Your point on realignment, BB only conference, and or catholic univ conferences has been discussed very extensively, in the past, in many other threads.
Here the mods can provide you a benefit..
..by giving you links to some of those threads, especially on conferences comprised of BB only schools..
You may wish to send the moderators an IM, requesting these thread links, and give them a welcome respite from censoring/refereeing on postings.
Quote from: The Sultan of South Wayne on August 12, 2011, 03:22:30 PM
Another Update: The timeline is being moved up apparently due to the Texas Higher Education Committee calling for a meeting on Tuesday.
The SEC Presidents are due to meet on Sunday. The A&M Board of Regents is due to meet Monday. Rumors are that Florida State is going to be invited too.
http://espn.go.com/college-sports/story/_/id/6857085/sec-high-demand-texas-florida-state-talk-simmers
Thanks for updating--things are moving fast...on various fronts.
The Texas Higher Education Committee is the sub- group of the Texas legislature, with controlling jurisdiction over all Texas state universities, and it is calling everyone in ASAP, because this has moved very fast and has caught many here in Texas flat footed. It may try to stop, or delay this action.
I'm not sure if TAMU, and its regents can pull the SEC trigger on their own...or whether there will be some interventions stopping them...the Tx legislature is not in session, but UT, TxTech, etc all have legislative reps who'll want a say on this.
When not in session, the Gov. is in charge, ....and Perry is an Aggie. Aggies support the SEC move as a nice way to nose thumb UT over its single school sports network and browbeatdown of the other Big12ers, during the last offseason flirtations. Perry wont stop anything.
Although a political ban here limits what can be said, when the sports program of our second largest taxpayer supported state school plans to break from an almost century old playing alliance with the other TX state schools, the possible impact of politics in the sports issue becomes central.
Example: If not for Gov Ann Richards political intervention, Baylor, a private school, would not have come along to join the B12, when the old SWC broke up.
...and as noted in the linked ESPN article above.
.." it was political pressure and legislature that played a key role in the Big 12 staying together last summer, when parts nearly broke off to join the Pac-12...."
This will be interesting, and politics, unavoidably, will play a role.
houwarrior, I have a friend from Fort Worth who has a friend on the TAMU Board of Regents. He told me a year ago that this is how it was going to play out. That they were going to wait for the Texas legislature to go out of session and that there was a standing offer from the SEC for TAMU.
Quote from: The Sultan of South Wayne on August 12, 2011, 09:12:36 PMhouwarrior, I have a friend from Fort Worth who has a friend on the TAMU Board of Regents. He told me a year ago that this is how it was going to play out. That they were going to wait for the Texas legislature to go out of session and that there was a standing offer from the SEC for TAMU.
Not sure if you mentioned this before (probably) or I heard it from someone else, but I do recall hearing before that this was how TAMU was going to play it.
houwarrior
As you may recall, in 1994 when the SWC fell apart, there were three key players involved in shaping the new conference, Gov. Anne Richards, Lt. Gov Bob Bullock and the Atty General (forgot the name.) The three of them intervened and protected their respective Alma Maters, Baylor and Texas Tech, making sure that they were part of the new conference. TCU didn't have the political clout and ended up on the outside looking in.
This time around there is nowhere near the political clout trying to mediate this and A&M pulled a real trump card by moving up their Board of Regents meeting from the 22nd to Monday and as you said, the Governor being not only an Aggie but also a former "Yell leader" is certainly not going to try to block this move.
Florida doesn't want FSU in the SEC (nor does Auburn and Georgia) and what the SEC is really looking for is a larger media market which FSU (or Miami) won't deliver....they'd love to have VaTech but after the way that UVA lobbied on their behalf to get them into the ACC I'm not sure that will happen.
Who the 14th member turns out to be is going to be interesting to watch.
Quote from: The Sultan of South Wayne on August 12, 2011, 09:12:36 PM
houwarrior, I have a friend from Fort Worth who has a friend on the TAMU Board of Regents. He told me a year ago that this is how it was going to play out. That they were going to wait for the Texas legislature to go out of session and that there was a standing offer from the SEC for TAMU.
The Tx legislature is only in regular session for one 140 calender day period every odd year...this year, 2011, it began on Jan 11, and ended on May 30, 2011. It was not in session, at all in 2010-- so if the sole timing was the session, TAMU could have done that last year, at any time.
But, any good Aggie engineer takes his time to study and plan, so it appears they snapped to the timing plan, a year later...sounds like the makings of a new Aggie joke. lol
Quote from: texaswarrior74 on August 12, 2011, 10:25:11 PM
houwarrior
As you may recall, in 1994 when the SWC fell apart, there were three key players involved in shaping the new conference, Gov. Anne Richards, Lt. Gov Bob Bullock and the Atty General (forgot the name.) The three of them intervened and protected their respective Alma Maters, Baylor and Texas Tech, making sure that they were part of the new conference. TCU didn't have the political clout and ended up on the outside looking in.
.
In 1994....Dan Morales was AG back then, but he was an alum of Trinity Univ. and Harvard...So you may be recalling either ex AG Jim Maddox, a Baylor boy, or Billy Clayton, the deal wielding speaker of the house, who was a key Aggie in the negotiations. Tech joining has made sense..but Baylor(the only private school) has always been an odd fit in the B12.
There is talk that the SEC is currently talking to a school from the ACC. A name being mentioned right now is North Carolina, but that doesn't seem to make sense to me. NC State makes more sense. But that could mean Florida State, Virginia Tech or Clemson too.
Quote from: The Sultan of South Wayne on August 13, 2011, 06:46:36 AM
There is talk that the SEC is currently talking to a school from the ACC. A name being mentioned right now is North Carolina, but that doesn't seem to make sense to me. NC State makes more sense. But that could mean Florida State, Virginia Tech or Clemson too.
FSU makes the most sense.
FSU makes the most sense in some respects, but there is talk that Florida doesn't want them in the SEC and it doesn't open up any new markets (Clemson wouldn't either.) Va Tech, UNC or NCSU does.
VaTech's AD said they would probably turn down the offer if it was extended.
FSU makes sense from a competitive standpoint, but, as mentioned, they don't add a market. I'm thinking NC State. Like the Aggies, NC State has a high opinion of themselves and the last 2 decades haven't been stellar on the sports front. They may be motivated to get out of the big shadows of NC State and Duke.
From the Omaha World Herald - do anyone really wonder why the rats are jumping ship in the Big XII?
Texas Athletic Director DeLoss Dodds, the Big 12 commissioner, said on Friday that the league will be fine but, whatever happens, "We'll (Texas) be in a good place. That's what we do. We're good at that.''
Beebe also allegedly told A&M that Texas was the key to the conference, not A&M. While probably true, what the hell is Beebe doing?
looks like its Clemson, Fla St and Missouri are gonna join A&M.
Anyone think Texas wants this so they can just go independent?
So much for Mizzou becoming the next Big 10 entry.
Quote from: 2012 Warrior on August 13, 2011, 09:18:07 AM
looks like its Clemson, Fla St and Missouri are gonna join A&M.
Anyone think Texas wants this so they can just go independent?
That is a big problem for Big East, if SEC picks off two ACC teams.
The Big 10 did not want Missouri, probably, because they were holding off for Notre Dame, Texas or Maryland. Maybe Texas needed A&M to bolt, so the could go to Big 10.
The Mizzou rumor is being denied. The NYT just posted something saying that TAMU is by no means a sure thing and that there isn't consensus on a possible 14th team.
Had heard it out there before, got some second hand confirmation this morning, Texas and Notre Dame would work together to form a new conference if the Big 12 ceases to exist. No clue who else would get in on that (BC?, Miami? Oklahoma? KU?)
Also saw that if TAMU leaves Big 12, Texas preference to replace the Aggies is ND or Arkansas (both very big longshots), or one from this group: BYU, Air Force, Houston, or Louisville.
Ville would be very interesting.
Quote from: MUDish on August 13, 2011, 12:04:32 PM
Had heard it out there before, got some second hand confirmation this morning, Texas and Notre Dame would work together to form a new conference if the Big 12 ceases to exist. No clue who else would get in on that (BC?, Miami? Oklahoma? KU?)
I would think Oklahoma & Oklahoma St are linked together and Also Kansas and Kansas St are linked together. The Notre Dame part is real interesting. It would indicate to me that the ACC is going to implode and the Big East will be even lower in the football conference rankings. Notre Dame, Texas, North Carolina, Duke, Oklahoma, Oklahoma St., Kansas, Kansas St., Virginia, Maryland and two more to get to 12 or 4 more to get to 14. Big East could lose and pick up teams in this transition. Notre Dame is obvisously the big factor. They did not want to join the Big East in football, so I have to think they would only want selective Big East teams in the new conference. I think this excludes Cincinnati and Louisville.
From living in auburn and getting hourly sec updates year round, I can tell you that most long-time sec folks always wanted Flo state and have regretted that they didn't have Bowden. Since Rkansas joined there has always been the though that they needed Texas and m as their rival if Arkansas was going to be permanent. But beyond that, the only big 1/ team I've ever heard discussed was Oklahoma just in an arms race scenario against the big 10 expansion. I believe 95 percent of sec people would be shocked if Kansas, k-state o Missouri were ever offered. I wouldn't rule out ga tech, becUs we reall are past the fact that they integrated by now. I believe their other pick is from the acc with va tech as an option, and I still think we end up looking k-state, mizzou and Kansas at some point. Then the question becomes if the be and acc can continue as the weaker of 5 remaining bcs conferences, or if the powers insist on 4 conferences of 16 teams.
Now top story on espn.com.
This should be fun.
This has been the top story on ESPN Dallas for three days. Today the word is that Houston is NOT under any consideration for a spot. There were a large number of Houston grads in the state legislature who made a lot of noise last year which is why the name is surfacing again but sources in the Big 12 say they have no interest. BYU, Air Force and Louisville have been the three schools most talked about...TV markets are what is driving this bus and the Big 12 already has Houston and Ft Worth which is why TCU isn't in the mix even if they would be the best school to be brought in.
Some other things from interviews with numerous A&M and Big 12 sources:
Some in the A&M camp were quoted as fearful that to be competitive they would have to lower admission standards and are also reluctant to have to "get down in the mud" again for recruiting after they have "cleaned things up."
DeLoss Dodds the Texas AD actually did say "maybe Texas and Notre Dame will just form our own conference."
What's important to note here is that Dodds is not known to be given to idle chatter and is also a very close friend of the ND AD. Most here believe that if Dodds even said it, it has already been discussed.
There is also some concern being mentioned that A&M may not be able to get the necessary votes to join the SEC....reports earlier today were that 30-40% of the SEC presidents were not in favor of the move.
ACC sources and the respective schools are saying that FSU and Clemson are going nowhere.
This may get interesting.
I seriously doubt that A&M takes it this far without some solid knowledge that they are getting an offer from SEC. They would be morons to go back to the B12 with their tail between their legs by this point.
Quote from: The Sultan of South Wayne on August 13, 2011, 07:33:08 PM
I seriously doubt that A&M takes it this far without some solid knowledge that they are getting an offer from SEC. They would be morons to go back to the B12 with their tail between their legs by this point.
Exactly what the sports talk guys were saying. In this part of the world they tell Aggie jokes interchangeably/like Polish jokes elsewhere.....comment today was if they were not approved by the SEC it would be the greatest Aggie joke of all time....
http://www.mercurynews.com/sports-headlines/ci_18677412
Now they are saying that the Presidents are indeed meeting tomorrow, and are basically going to take A&M as a "business decision." Because if it isn't them, A&M would likely turn to the Pac-12. And the SEC is not interested in breaking up the ACC...and it looks like it could be Louisville.
From a BE point of view, Louisville would be great! They essentially replaced one football school with another (TCU), and I think this keeps the B12 together, which IMO is very important for the future of the BE. I don't think the addition of four "minor" programs will be helpful for the football schools. I think the breakup of the B12 pushes schools like Kansas and Kansas State, which makes a breakup of the basketball schools and football schools that much more likely.
Ouch! Turns out the SEC doesn't want A&M. http://espn.go.com/college-sports/story/_/id/6861385/sec-extend-invitation-texas-leaves-options-open (http://espn.go.com/college-sports/story/_/id/6861385/sec-extend-invitation-texas-leaves-options-open)
If you were the Aggies wouldn't you secure an invite before going public with all this?
A couple of things about this. Let's see how the vote goes tomorrow at the BoR. If they give the authority to the Chancellor to explore all options, which is in the agenda, this might just be delayed a year. The reason for this is that the deadline for ACC schools to announce that they are leaving in 2012 is August 15...tomorrow. What is being said publically might not reflect what is going on privately. They may have been told to sit tight...wait a year...and let us figure out our options.
And it isn't easy for public universities to conduct their business in private.
http://texas.rivals.com/content.asp?CID=1251783
Now it is being reported that this is simply a dealy to buy time for A&M to get political cover. Expect an announcement within 21 days unless the politicians really screw things up.
And here is a more comprehensive article from SI on the events of yesterday and what they mean. And to tie this to MU, the best thing that can happen is for the B12 to add another team, such as Houston, and remain stable. A further breakdown of the B12 may cause all sorts of chaos that could leave MU out of the BE as currently constituted.
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2011/writers/andy_staples/08/14/texas.am.sec/index.html?sct=hp_t2_a4&eref=sihp
Maybe Chicos will chime in and tell what his Houston AD pal is thinkin'?
Quote from: 4everwarriors on August 15, 2011, 09:15:09 AM
Maybe Chicos will chime in and tell what his Houston AD pal is thinkin'?
Since he's been banned, Chico's has been a part of just as many threads. Any way to ban posts ABOUT Chico's?
I've been MIA too long, when did Chicos get banned?
The UH AD, Mack Rhoades, once worked at MU athl. dept., so he is a friend to all MUers (not just Chicos-who worked with Mack) . Mack is a rising star in the AD ranks, very well thought of.
Assuming all the meetings, dealings, result in TAMU to the SEC,....(and although the B12 will hold their nose on it, just like they did when UH was added to the old SWC), .....a likely target for a quick B12 conference patch is UH.
See Hou Chron.:
http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/sports/justice/7696440.html
Jeez, what a terrible article that is. No offense, but increasing your attendance from 21,000 to 32,000 isn't a selling point for a BCS conference. The worst team in the B12 attendance wise is Iowa State...and they draw 45,000. BYU is 60,000+.
Quote from: The Sultan of South Wayne on August 15, 2011, 03:09:21 PM
Jeez, what a terrible article that is. No offense, but increasing your attendance from 21,000 to 32,000 isn't a selling point for a BCS conference. The worst team in the B12 attendance wise is Iowa State...and they draw 45,000. BYU is 60,000+.
None taken, by me..just the messenger. lol
The article author, Richard Justice, was originally with the Dallas Morning News, and this article shows no real research or effort. With the speed of the AM developments, many are just throwing content up, without research, and quality writing.
In the gigantic conference scenarios, what happens to the Big 12/10/8 schools without a home?
I'm thinking teams like Baylor, Mizzou, KState, Iowa St, Texas Tech. KU, OK, OK St will all be big enough to garner invites somewhere. TX will obviously be fine and could even go independent for football. KState would probably be okay just because of their association with KU.
But what about the little, less profitable schools. Would the big conferences be interested in absorbing these teams? Would they be forced to create/join a little brother conference with what's left of Conference USA?
Quote from: leever on August 15, 2011, 09:55:49 AM
Since he's been banned, Chico's has been a part of just as many threads. Any way to ban posts ABOUT Chico's?
What about an auto-change from Chicos to something like toejam? voldemort? Crean?
East Carolina to the SEC. Really WSJ?
http://blogs.wsj.com/dailyfix/2011/08/15/the-texas-am-sweepstakes-continues/
Also this, hypothesizing that Duke & UNC are SEC's dream scenario. Hard to see UNC going w/out NC State getting in the way. Also mentions, maryland and BC have had contact w/ Big East.
http://outkickthecoverage.com/north-carolina-and-duke-the-secs-east-coast-homerun.php
Quote from: Aughnanure on August 16, 2011, 02:51:49 PM
East Carolina to the SEC. Really WSJ?
http://blogs.wsj.com/dailyfix/2011/08/15/the-texas-am-sweepstakes-continues/
Also this, hypothesizing that Duke & UNC are SEC's dream scenario. Hard to see UNC going w/out NC State getting in the way. Also mentions, maryland and BC have had contact w/ Big East.
http://blogs.wsj.com/dailyfix/2011/08/15/the-texas-am-sweepstakes-continues/
The web links are repeated.
Big East commish is talking regularly to Beebe, the B12 commish....and suggesting the two meet with ACC commish for the 3 weakest conferences to coordinate on realignment issues.
http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/sports/college/7700021.html
This is a smart proactive move--BE has to worry over TCU jumping back over to B12..and the BE is more the poachee...than poacher...better to flush your hunters out in the open for talks. Might the 3 conferences trade teams among themselves?
I propose a conference draft. "With the first pick, the SWAC picks.....Texas! With the second pick, Conference USA selects.....Notre Dame!"
Quote from: houwarrior on August 16, 2011, 06:47:43 PM
This is a smart proactive move--BE has to worry over TCU jumping back over to B12..and the BE is more the poachee...than poacher...better to flush your hunters out in the open for talks. Might the 3 conferences trade teams among themselves?
Problem is, who would want to jump into the BE? I don't see how all three of those conferences could come to a happy agreement that all teams agree to without one of the conferences folding (or kicking all the non-FB schools out of the BE and replacing them with the remainder of the B12).
Yeah....it's kind of like a summit meeting between France, Belgium and Poland before WW2.
The new BE special commisioner on league realignment , A. E. Newman appeared confident on the BE future, stating to reporters..."What? Me, worry?
Rumor is that the three conferences will merge into 2 super conferences split up by basketball & football
Football
-WVU
-Louisville
-TCU
-USF
-Rutgers
-Cincy
-UM
-Baylor
-Ok State
-TAMU
-TTU
-UT
-BC
-FSU
-Georgia State
-Miami
-VT
Basketball
-MU
-Gerogetown
-ND
-Depaul
-Seaton Hall
-Providence
-Nova
-St Johns
-ISU
-UK
-Duke
-Maryland
-UNC
-Wake Forest
To be decided
-Pitt
-Syracuse
-UConn
-KSU
-U Oklahoma
-Clemson
-NCSU
-Virginia
Quote from: MUBurrow on August 17, 2011, 04:43:34 PM
Problem is, who would want to jump into the BE? I don't see how all three of those conferences could come to a happy agreement that all teams agree to without one of the conferences folding (or kicking all the non-FB schools out of the BE and replacing them with the remainder of the B12).
Yeah, the little 3 can't do much and each conference is looking at possible leftovers of each to salvage. Texas is the last mystery in all this, will they stay with a 9-team Big 12, try to add one team (all reports say they will not go back to 12 anytime soon), will they take OU, TTU, OSU and themselves to the PAC or will they go Independent?
Texas as independent causes so many more problems, as OU is probably the #1desire for the SEC to add west w/ AtM. If not, its Mizzou.
SEC supposedly wants into North Carolina badly, but how is the biggest question - North Carolina would be a dream, but N.C. State?
NC State is larger than UNC, and while it doesn't have the same national profile as UNC, is very well supported locally. And NCSU might be interested in breaking out of the UNC "shaddow" similar to A&M and Texas.
Texas and Notre Dame are self-serving. They will do whatever allows them to keep their separate TV contracts, which means they are likely both to be independents. I do not think conference affiliation matters to either of them.
Quote from: bilsu on August 18, 2011, 11:38:29 AM
Texas and Notre Dame are self-serving. They will do whatever allows them to keep their separate TV contracts, which means they are likely both to be independents. I do not think conference affiliation matters to either of them.
Do you think other schools join conferences for reasons other than self-interest? Are they all just in it for the greater good?
Let's not exagerate UT's ability to go it alone. Right now they are projected to get $15M per year from the Longhorn Network, on top of the $10M they get per year from the B12. Even if they moved all of their sports programming to the LHN, I don't think they make up for the $10M.
Notre Dame would make more money by joining the B10. That has been well documented. They remain independent more out of tradition than anything else.
After realizing:
1- The 13 year $ 1 Billion Big 12 TV deal, signed last year, could be voided, giving the other Big 12ers, and ESPN, a possible huge suit claim against TAMU, and also against anyone one helping/inducing this contract breach, for tortious interference;
2- The SEC wouldnt bite on such risks, and the other problems(uneven conf team numbers- requiring another invite to balance, etc), quickly, so it made TAMU no current offer to join the SEC;
3- The UT network, partnered with ESPN is launching, giving UT a permanent leg up in the Big 12, and in $$;
and
4- The TAMU folks have even refused to talk with UT folks...TAMU is so mad at UT right now it isnt even on speaking terms..
..it was time to decide on whether to file divorce papers....so....
TAMU made the official announcement, that even though delayed by their recent jump the SEC gun debacle (they are Aggies, after all-lol), TAMU will leave the Big 12, as soon as they can work out the split to somewhere else, who will offer it:
http://espn.go.com/college-sports/story/_/id/6895751/texas-aggies-officially-notify-big-12-conference-exploration
The more reasoned slower delayed approach hopefully will allow TAMU to avoid the lawsuit, negotiate a liveable B12 buyout, and move to another conference...
but,
A 100 plus year rivalry is permanently injured, and will never be quite the same, again.
Apparently TAMU and the B12 have settled on compensation and agreed not to sue one another. And the SEC is going to possibly announce their membership as early as the end of this week BUT, a 14th team isn't going to be likely added until the 2013-14 year.
My guess is that the B12 will simply add one more (BYU is my guess) and move on. The BE is likely safe for now.
Quote from: The Sultan of South Wayne on August 29, 2011, 06:26:48 PM
Apparently TAMU and the B12 have settled on compensation and agreed not to sue one another. And the SEC is going to possibly announce their membership as early as the end of this week BUT, a 14th team isn't going to be likely added until the 2013-14 year.
My guess is that the B12 will simply add one more (BYU is my guess) and move on. The BE is likely safe for now.
...you're kind of over shooting the actual status, as such is still pending $$ agreements, but there is reason to believe you'll be right, in the end.
TAMU got some B12 (attorneys) help..(..gulp...maybe even had to go to a UT law grad..)...and they have a memo on the methods, issues, etc on how to do this right, with no suit from B12, or ESPN vs it or the SEC.
Aggies are never law guys, but as good engineers, they are great at reading and following a set of plans when given them, and likely, an agreement is coming on buyout, timing, etc
..."Texas A&M's path out of the Big 12 and into the Southeastern Conference grew wider - and closer to an end - on Monday.
The Aggies received a letter from the Big 12 that "outlines the withdrawal procedures according to the financial provisions of the Big 12 bylaws and mutual waivers of legal claims," according to A&M spokesman Jason Cook.
A&M considers the setting aside of threats of lawsuits huge as it continues the process of exiting the Big 12 and entering the SEC.
Determining an exit fee - and estimates on that are wide-ranging, according to various media reports - appears to be the lone remaining obstacle for the Aggies' impending departure, and an announcement they've left the Big 12 might come as soon as this week....."
http://www.chron.com/sports/aggies/article/Big-12-gives-A-M-guidance-on-what-may-be-a-hasty-2146764.php
Quote from: The Sultan of South Wayne on August 29, 2011, 06:26:48 PM
Apparently TAMU and the B12 have settled on compensation and agreed not to sue one another. And the SEC is going to possibly announce their membership as early as the end of this week BUT, a 14th team isn't going to be likely added until the 2013-14 year.
My guess is that the B12 will simply add one more (BYU is my guess) and move on. The BE is likely safe for now.
The problem with that assumption is that you think the SEC will sit idly with 13 teams and go ahead with an uneven schedule. I very much doubt that happens with the division set up and all.
The biggest concern for the Big East is that the SEC will add an East team to keep the divisions aligned, mostly assuring the 14th team comes from the ACC or BE which will start the dominoes to fall.