so don't badger me for more info. May be another negative story soon to run in the Tribune. Possibly more heads will roll.
You can't just say there might be. Fricken tell us. Your nothing but a user name. We dnr know you personally.
I know 4never.....cat has a cup of purple oil with gang bangers and car wash owners regularly.
No. GoMarquette3 is right. You must never insinuate that MU has EVER done anything wrong. The world is BS. Callapari and Pitino are dicks. Everyone else drink your Kool Aide and rest.....
All is well. Nothing to fear. 4evers is your enemy!
You at least got to be able to recruit a top 30 big if you're recruiting ballers who do eiffel towers and walruses.
Buzz, look outside, that wisconsin ice is getting thinner.
Quote from: Stone Cold on July 13, 2011, 08:35:39 PM
Buzz, look outside, that wisconsin ice is getting thinner.
Stick to men in tights rolling around on mats together in fantasy land...
Which Tribune?
/watches the magical passing of the Festivus pole.
Another round of Buzz's players getting in legal trouble/accused of a serious crime right now would certainly put him on thin ice. Or cause another good MU employee to get fired.
Quote from: Stone Cold on July 13, 2011, 10:12:58 PM
Another round of Buzz's players getting in legal trouble/accused of a serious crime right now would certainly put him on thin ice. Or cause another good MU employee to get fired.
I disagree...I don't understand how you can say this is Buzz' fault. What do you want him to do? Have 24/7 surveillance on the players, that would be just wonderful for recruiting don't you think? These athletes are legally men, and should be held responsible for their own actions. Why do you need to go and point fingers at Buzz when nobody knows the whole story? So many are posting without knowing anything beyond the known facts, the published facts. I will wait until I see the facts.
Wait a sec...how do we know any of these past or upcoming allegations are even men's basketball? We have only been told men's athletics. My bet's on soccer. Watch out Louis Bennett!
Quote from: jhags15 on July 14, 2011, 01:26:42 AM
I disagree...I don't understand how you can say this is Buzz' fault. What do you want him to do?
1. Recruit players that aren't going to get in constant trouble
2. Promote an atmosphere of accountability.
Quote from: The Sultan of South Wayne on July 14, 2011, 08:49:39 AM
1. Recruit players that aren't going to get in constant trouble
2. Promote an atmosphere of accountability.
Do we have any ... you know, what's the word ... proof ... that players recruited by MU's current coach are getting in trouble more than those of prior coaches, much less "constant" trouble?
Do we know there isn't an atmosphere of accountability?
FIRE TRESSEL NOW!
Oh wait, wrong school.
Sorry.
Quote from: Pakuni on July 14, 2011, 08:55:24 AM
Do we have any ... you know, what's the word ... proof ... that players recruited by MU's current coach are getting in trouble more than those of prior coaches, much less "constant" trouble?
Do we know there isn't an atmosphere of accountability?
One of the difficulties today is the microscope players are under. Back in the 70s, 80s, and even 90s, there wasn't the 24/7 news cycle and the constant interest that there is today. Do something stupid and there's a good chance someone will tweet it or have it on YouTube within the hour. My guess would be that the players now are probably getting in less trouble than players in previous decades would have when put under today's microscope, but this is the situation they live in.
Just for historical purpose, while I was a student we had:
Tony Davis punch a girl in an elevator (he was known as the elevator operator after that)
Artie Green inviting many girls to his love palace in Rm 633 McCormick (even right after games)
Oliver Lee doing what Oliver Lee did. Can't recall specifics. Just remember it was embarrassing.
MU hoops players have not become bad people in the last couple of years. They do, and have always done, the same things that many college age males do. It is wrong and they need to be held accountable, but this can't be laid off on Buzz.
Quote from: Pakuni on July 14, 2011, 08:55:24 AM
Do we have any ... you know, what's the word ... proof ... that players recruited by MU's current coach are getting in trouble more than those of prior coaches, much less "constant" trouble?
Do we know there isn't an atmosphere of accountability?
I don't know the answers to any of these questions, and I wasn't speaking about the recent incidents. But in general terms, I don't think the "hey, what can the coach do?" excuse is a valid one. The coach can most definately do something.
Quote from: The Sultan of South Wayne on July 14, 2011, 09:09:33 AM
I don't know the answers to any of these questions, and I wasn't speaking about the recent incidents. But in general terms, I don't think the "hey, what can the coach do?" excuse is a valid one. The coach can most definately do something.
Fair enough. But when you answer the question "What do you want Buzz to do" by stating "recruit players that aren't going to get in constant trouble," it implies that he's recruited players that
are in constant trouble.
So you want Buzz to go clubbing with the boys on weekends?
Quote from: Pakuni on July 14, 2011, 09:14:26 AM
Fair enough. But when you answer the question "What do you want Buzz to do" by stating "recruit players that aren't going to get in constant trouble," it implies that he's recruited players that are in constant trouble.
That isn't what I meant to imply.
Quote from: The Sultan of South Wayne on July 14, 2011, 08:49:39 AM
1. Recruit players that aren't going to get in constant trouble
2. Promote an atmosphere of accountability.
Let's see...
We had 4 players get accused of sexual harrassment on Halloween at a party. If anyone has been to a Halloween party lately many of the girls look like they just came from a Fredericks of Hollywood photo shoot. Add in college age men, alcohol and harrassment while not acceptable can often happen. It appears the men were put throught the normal student conduct board process and I am sure Buzz had more than a few things to say, punishment , etc.
Then a number of months later another player had an incident that by all accounts could have been a sexual assault/ rape, etc. A potential terrible lack of judgement especially in light of the Halloween incident. That players is no longer in the program.
Seriously what else would you like to be done?
Quote from: Stone Cold on July 13, 2011, 10:12:58 PM
Another round of Buzz's players getting in legal trouble/accused of a serious crime right now would certainly put him on thin ice. Or cause another good MU employee to get fired.
Big difference between getting in legal trouble and being accused of a serious crime. Let me know when we have multiple rounds of players getting in serious legal trouble...meaning arrested and found guilty.
Quote from: Canadian Dimes on July 14, 2011, 09:42:53 AM
Seriously what else would you like to be done?
r
OK...you quote my answer to the question, and then you ask again???
I agree that you are always going to have incidents. I hardly ask for perfection. I just think any coach needs to recruit good kids, and hold them accountable.
I have no idea if that has occured at MU under Buzz. Not enough info.
Quote from: ringout on July 14, 2011, 09:01:03 AM
Just for historical purpose, while I was a student we had:
Artie Green inviting many girls to his love palace in Rm 633 McCormick (even right after games)
What's wrong with inviting girls to your room after games?
Quote from: PuertoRicanNightmare on July 14, 2011, 10:29:55 AM
What's wrong with inviting girls to your room after games?
Grabbing the PA microphone to do it is probably a bad choice.
Quote from: ringout on July 14, 2011, 09:01:03 AM
Just for historical purpose, while I was a student we had:
Tony Davis punch a girl in an elevator (he was known as the elevator operator after that)
Artie Green inviting many girls to his love palace in Rm 633 McCormick (even right after games)
Oliver Lee doing what Oliver Lee did. Can't recall specifics. Just remember it was embarrassing.
MU hoops players have not become bad people in the last couple of years. They do, and have always done, the same things that many college age males do. It is wrong and they need to be held accountable, but this can't be laid off on Buzz.
None can top Maurice Lucas hanging a guy outside a 10th floor window in McCormick by his feet after the guy nearly caused a race riot in the cafeteria. They moved the guy to Schroeder into the first floor room next to Fr Naus to protect him for the rest of the semester....he transferred to Miami the next year.
Marcus Washington showed up for so many games stoned out of his mind that it became common knowledge. Joke became that he was straight on nights when his game was off.
Quote from: 4everwarriors on July 13, 2011, 07:10:32 PM
so don't badger me for more info. May be another negative story soon to run in the Tribune. Possibly more heads will roll.
(http://images1.makefive.com/images/entertainment/television/best-simpsons-character/lionel-hutz-7.jpg)
Hearsay and conjecture, those are KINDS of evidence. Scotch, anyone?
Players need to be viewed through the similar prism that all college kids are viewed.
X player was drunk at a bar? Not a big deal (provided he's of age).
X player got in a minor physical altercation? Bigger deal, but it happens. Not a huge issue if it's a one time thing.
Sexual assaults (allegedly), drunk driving*, serious physical altercations*, threats of violence*, murder*, Repeated drunkenness in public*, drug use* etc. etc.
Those are bigger deals and don't reflect positively on the University or MU hoops culture.
*I'm not saying these have happened recently, just using examples of large issues that wouldn't be acceptable even for a nameless college student.
Quote from: PuertoRicanNightmare on July 14, 2011, 10:29:55 AM
What's wrong with inviting girls to your room after games?
keeping his roomate (Michael Wilson) from getting into the room. ??
Quote from: 4everwarriors on July 13, 2011, 07:10:32 PM
so don't badger me for more info. May be another negative story soon to run in the Tribune. Possibly more heads will roll.
this became a topic?? unless i'm missing something, to throw this out there and then leave?? looks like a lit bag of sh!t on the porch prank to me. 4never must be one of the good ole boys
Quote from: Canadian Dimes on July 14, 2011, 09:42:53 AM
Then a number of months later another player had an incident that by all accounts could have been a sexual assault/ rape, etc. A potential terrible lack of judgement especially in light of the Halloween incident. That players is no longer in the program.
Am I the only one who didn't know who the player was? And that the incident is the reason he left? Guess I'm out of the loop...
Well, they didn't exactly issue a press release saying this is the reason he left but....
I think it is funny that this board has criticised Huggins in the past for the type of players he recruits. Especially, when he suspended a couple of players this year for violation of team rules. On the surface, without knowing all of the facts, I am not to terribly upset about the October incident. However, in hindsite, perhaps Buzz should of suspended the players for a game or two to set a proper tone and not end up appearing to be covering things up. The Blue thing was also another thing that is not a big deal to me. However, Buzz probably should of suspended him for a game for breaking team rules. The third incident is a bigger deal and I am glad, if true, that that player is gone. That player should have been immediately suspended from the team stating that that he violated team rules. I am assuming that Buzz did discipline players privately, but as we can all see now this has led to MU being trashed all over the place, because it looked like they protected the players instead of disciplining them. Also, the February victim might not have gone off the deep end, if she had seen some discipline handed out.
Damon Key threw a word processor (remember this was 1995) up a flight of stairs at his girlfriend!
I'll bet he missed hitting her.
Quote from: jtrash37 on July 14, 2011, 02:22:46 PM
Damon Key threw a word processor (remember this was 1995) up a flight of stairs at his girlfriend!
Word processors were the tits.
(http://salestores.com/stores/images/images_747/DP525CJB3.jpg)
None can top Maurice Lucas hanging a guy outside a 10th floor window in McCormick by his feet after the guy nearly caused a race riot in the cafeteria. They moved the guy to Schroeder into the first floor room next to Fr Naus to protect him for the rest of the semester....he transferred to Miami the next year.
Rooney?
Quote from: The Sultan of South Wayne on July 14, 2011, 12:32:48 PM
Well, they didn't exactly issue a press release saying this is the reason he left but....
If I recall correctly, the same player was missing from the bench for a week or two in the month of February. The pieces are starting to come together.
We need a wiki page with a list of all athlete misbehavior, to save for the ages.
Quote from: The Sultan of South Wayne on July 14, 2011, 08:49:39 AM
1. Recruit players that aren't going to get in constant trouble
So you want the coach to be able to predict the future?
Tell me which player on the current team was known to be in constant trouble before signing with MU?
Quote from: jhags15 on July 14, 2011, 01:26:42 AM
I disagree...I don't understand how you can say this is Buzz' fault. What do you want him to do? Have 24/7 surveillance on the players, that would be just wonderful for recruiting don't you think? These athletes are legally men, and should be held responsible for their own actions. Why do you need to go and point fingers at Buzz when nobody knows the whole story? So many are posting without knowing anything beyond the known facts, the published facts. I will wait until I see the facts.
That's what those Hugg lovers used to say in Bearcat land. I hope we aren't there. God help us
Quote from: MuMark on July 14, 2011, 05:42:33 PM
So you want the coach to be able to predict the future?
Tell me which player on the current team was known to be in constant trouble before signing with MU?
The overall point is there has been crap going on at Marquette for a long time through many coaches. They did a mostly good job at keeping it either in house or in community. We seem to have lost that ability.
And don't anyone fall on the "its a different time with the internet" ruse because the last guy had to deal with message boards and the like and covered crap up like a Venus Fly Trap.
I guess I'm confused as to what has happened to put Buzz on "thin ice."
1. a party where accusations are made, but no arrests
2. a player punches another student and is ticketed
3. a player is accused of an ugly act, not arrested, and he's no longer on the team
Without knowing anything specific about those situations, I guess I don't see anything wrong with what Buzz has done. It's just as easy to blame Buzz for kicking the kid off the team without an arrest being made as it is to blame Buzz for that accusation. I don't see the link to Huggins, and I don't see MU's graduation rate at the same level. Vander punches a kid and some of the same people who have no issue with someone like Bobby Knight smacking a kid blame Buzz for Vander's slip up. The whole thing seems blown up to me, and the only negative press I've repeatedly heard is directed at MU as a whole for it's policies that essentially are illegal.
Quote from: The Golden Avalanche on July 14, 2011, 07:02:35 PM
The overall point is there has been crap going on at Marquette for a long time through many coaches. They did a mostly good job at keeping it either in house or in community. We seem to have lost that ability.
And don't anyone fall on the "its a different time with the internet" ruse because the last guy had to deal with message boards and the like and covered crap up like a Venus Fly Trap.
Nor did the last guy take the JUCO route. Boys, this is a consequnce of the JUCO route. It has burned many of coaches. High risk, high reward.
Quote from: Knight Commission on July 14, 2011, 07:20:50 PM
Nor did the last guy take the JUCO route. Boys, this is a consequnce of the JUCO route. It has burned many of coaches. High risk, high reward.
Bullcrap. This has absolutely nothing to do with the JUCO route. The player who "is no longer with the program" was not a JUCO transfer. The JUCO players we have had here have been just fine...one was even drafted.
Quote from: The Sultan of South Wayne on July 14, 2011, 07:27:07 PM
Bullcrap. This has absolutely nothing to do with the JUCO route. The player who "is no longer with the program" was not a JUCO transfer. The JUCO players we have had here have been just fine...one was even drafted.
Assuming that is true, let me qualify by suggesting the "JUCO route", is a generic term that includes recruiting kids with questionable backgrounds that most other high level D1 schools elect not to pursue.
Aka the Huggins, Floyd, Tark, etc route
Quote from: Knight Commission on July 14, 2011, 07:41:20 PM
Assuming that is true, let me qualify by suggesting the "JUCO route", is a generic term that aincludes recruiting kids with questionable backgrounds that other schools may not choose to pursue.
No it doesn't. It doesn't mean that at all. It means players that go to JUCOs before transferring. Furthermore, who has Buzz recruited that "other schools may not choose to pursue" who have "questionable backgrounds?"
You are talking out your ass.
Todd Mayo.
Quote from: Knight Commission on July 14, 2011, 07:41:20 PM
Assuming that is true, let me qualify by suggesting the "JUCO route", is a generic term that includes recruiting kids with questionable backgrounds that most other high level D1 schools elect to not pursue.
Aka the Huggins, Floyd, Tark, etc route
I'm trying to find an analogous statement to properly articulate how asinine your comment was, but I am coming up empty. Can someone help me?
Does this work? "Let me qualify by saying that the Axis Powers in WWII should refer to any country ruled by a tyrannical leader, so we should include the USSR with the Axis Powers."
What's wrong with Todd Mayo? Has he been in trouble with the law? Outside of transferring high schools, he seems pretty clean to me.
But let me get this straight....you consider him a "JUCO player" because he supposedly has a "questionable background?"
Quote from: Knight Commission on July 14, 2011, 07:41:20 PM
Assuming that is true, let me qualify by suggesting the "JUCO route", is a generic term that includes recruiting kids with questionable backgrounds that most other high level D1 schools elect not to pursue.
Aka the Huggins, Floyd, Tark, etc route
Sure seems like you have some problems.
Quote from: Knight Commission on July 14, 2011, 07:41:20 PM
Assuming that is true, let me qualify by suggesting the "JUCO route", is a generic term that includes recruiting kids with questionable backgrounds that most other high level D1 schools elect not to pursue.
Aka the Huggins, Floyd, Tark, etc route
There's a high quantity of really stupid s**t written on this board, but this is right up there at the top of that list.
This thread has a lot of rehashing history. To get back to the original statement,
"May be another negative story soon to run in the Tribune. Possibly more heads will roll."
Has anyone heard of a new incident?
Yes, and let me say it's awful. I heard when DJO takes a duece he wads and doesn't fold. He obviously hates the planet. I just don't see why we recruit these jucos.
JUCO's have been interwoven in the thread of MU hoops since Al's days. Your namesake, Knight Commission, won his last championship starting 2. First round draft pick with a blindside-esque backstory....yeah.... Weak sauce.
Is it possible 4ever was joking and making fun of some posters here who have inside info but can't tell? That was kind of my read on the opening post.
Hey Coach, when I tip this bottle over what happens?
Can't think of any worse characters than Fulce, Butler, Crowder, DJO and Buycks...although I haven't heard their names connected to any crap. Singleton was a very well-off walk-on, and Vander was recruited by everyone. To make a generalization that JUCO's are high risk/high reward character wise, and then associate ANY player (no matter if he's a JUCO player or not) that has a questionable background as a JUCO is about crappy a statement as I've seen on this board. I'll take 5 Butler's anyday.
Quote from: PuertoRicanNightmare on July 14, 2011, 10:29:55 AM
What's wrong with inviting girls to your room after games?
Nothing. I tried it a couple of times. Nobody ever showed up. Not even boys.
Quote from: Brewtown Andy on July 14, 2011, 10:55:58 AM
Grabbing the PA microphone to do it is probably a bad choice.
I tried that too, but I didn't know how to turn the mike on, so nobody could hear me.
Quote from: Knight Commission on July 14, 2011, 07:20:50 PM
Nor did the last guy take the JUCO route. Boys, this is a consequnce of the JUCO route. It has burned many of coaches. High risk, high reward.
Candidate for the most inane post ever?
Quote from: MU B2002 on July 14, 2011, 08:54:13 PM
Yes, and let me say it's awful. I heard when DJO takes a duece he wads and doesn't fold. He obviously hates the planet. I just don't see why we recruit these jucos.
This is exactly the problem with Buzz's recruiting - he goes after guys who WON'T FOLD! What is this program coming to?
Quote from: leever on July 15, 2011, 09:27:54 AM
This is exactly the problem with Buzz's recruiting - he goes after guys who WON'T FOLD! What is this program coming to?
DJO is a JUCO guy which obviously means he's a thug and, as everyone knows, thugs don't fold their TP. I knew this problem was coming as soon as Buzz was hired.
Quote from: tower912 on July 14, 2011, 09:11:28 PM
JUCO's have been interwoven in the thread of MU hoops since Al's days. Your namesake, Knight Commission, won his last championship starting 2. First round draft pick with a blindside-esque backstory....yeah.... Weak sauce.
Your right, of course, but elitists or bigots obsessed with how other like minded people perceive them can't stop patting themselves on the back for their "virtue" and self righteousness long enough to see it.
Quote from: 4everwarriors on July 13, 2011, 07:10:32 PM
so don't badger me for more info. May be another negative story soon to run in the Tribune. Possibly more heads will roll.
Back to the tread starter. I said a week or so ago I had heard one more shoe
could drop, but nothing has come of it yet ( http://www.muscoop.com/index.php?topic=27290.msg311192#msg311192 ). I've been gone this past week....not sure if 4ever is yanking chains or heard something similar.
Looking at some of the other comments here...yes, stuff like this has happened in the past and will happen in the future. However, I can't remember the last time stuff like this has been above the fold, front page story in Milwaukee, Chicago, evening news, etc. It's been probably since Copa. Some will dismiss this as boys being boys. Others as Just Win Baby. Others will be more concerned. Considering we lost our AD, are throwing Buzz out there as the "university spokesman", etc, etc....shows me some people feel this is a big deal and don't like the university dragged through the mud and think we might be able to have a tighter leash at times.
We shall see but I suspect that's what you'll see...perhaps even some very serious tough love / zero tolerance stuff coming soon. Some of the blue hairs aren't liking all the negative pub, and who can blame them.
Can some of the more connected Scoopers put a call into Tom Integrity Crean and see if he would consider coming back to MU as its Athletic Director and Head Basketball Coach should Buzz's head roll?? None of this crap ever happened under Tom Crean - just some illegal gambling, performance enhancing drug usage, occasional on campus fist-a-cuffs....
Actually, now that I think about it..not sure this is the answer either - considering Tom Crean and Indiana were just undressed/exposed by ESPN. Not sure which is worse being exposed by the Chicago Tribune or ESPN?
Tommy called and said MU ain't stink without me. Would seriously consider coming home again if Riley would be assured of winning another MVP award.
My guess is that sexual assault and violation of state law (knowingly) for 10 years by a major university is something a bit more concerning than having a recruit given something by his AAU team.
Let's just examine the casualties
Marquette
Executive VP...gone
Athletic Director...gone
Coaches rebuked and disciplined
Players rebuked and disciplined
At least one player no longer on squad
One more shoe still potentially to drop.....
IU
No one gone. No one resigned. No one fired.
ESPN widely discredited in the two weeks after initial article came out, including from ANOTHER ESPN WRITER who called it nonsense
IU player in question likely to sit a few games
#1 recruiting class in the nation coming in
Quote from: 4everwarriors on July 15, 2011, 09:03:00 PM
Tommy called and said MU ain't stink without me. Would seriously consider coming home again if Riley would be assured of winning another MVP award.
Thanks for putting in the call 4ever....I'm sure most of us here could live with young Riley winning another MVP Award at the MU Basketball camp - if we could bring TC back, and his new found ability to recruit the Number 1 recruiting class in the country, given his alliance with the Indiana Elite.
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on July 15, 2011, 09:24:29 PM
My guess is that sexual assault and violation of state law (knowingly) for 10 years by a major university is something a bit more concerning than having a recruit given something by his AAU team.
Let's just examine the casualties
Marquette
Executive VP...gone
Athletic Director...gone
Coaches rebuked and disciplined
Players rebuked and disciplined
At least one player no longer on squad
One more shoe still potentially to drop.....
IU
No one gone. No one resigned. No one fired.
ESPN widely discredited in the two weeks after initial article came out, including from ANOTHER ESPN WRITER who called it nonsense
IU player in question likely to sit a few games
#1 recruiting class in the nation coming in
This is a Marquette board. Feel free to visit an Indiana board and post there. We get it, you love the man. I wish you would leave like he did.
I'm sorry MUBasketball, but the discussion was about Marquette and it was not I that brought the other school into the debate. But as is ALWAYS the case you ignore who brought it up (not me) and only go after the response.
Why is that? Why do you not have the intellectual integrity to answer that question?
Better yet, why don't you take a crack at answering the question that was proposed. Is it worse to have your school have multiple student athletes accused of sexual assault (rape) multiple times, end up being put on the front page of the largest newspaper in the midwest, lose your AD, have the university change a policy because they were in violation of state law for 10 years and had to put their tail between their legs in admitting as such, etc, etc.....or have a recruit that has yet to spend 1 second on campus as a student athlete get a free plane ticket to his native country.
Come to think of it, since you're a UW-hyphen Milwaukee grad, why don't you go over to their board? LOL. Two can play this game if you wish.
Can someone point me to the article that discusses our student athletes being charged and found guilty of a crime? I guess I missed it.
Quote from: MU B2002 on July 15, 2011, 11:32:39 PM
Can someone point me to the article that discusses our student athletes being charged and found guilty of a crime? I guess I missed it.
I don't think you missed it....yet the university felt it was necessary to change it's policies, publicly apologize THREE times now, have it's AD resign, rebuke it's head coaches, discipline coaches and players, one player just so happened to leave, etc.
But you are correct, no one was charged and found guilty of a crime...at least not in a criminal case. It will be interesting to see what civil matters proceed with some of these women, if any are pursued.
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on July 16, 2011, 12:42:59 AMBut you are correct, no one was charged and found guilty of a crime...at least not in a criminal case. It will be interesting to see what civil matters proceed with some of these women, if any are pursued.
I suppose it will be, but seeing as DPS, MPD, and the DA with access to medical records (as I assume a cooperative plaintiff would allow their release) haven't come up with ANY evidence. And will she say she was just too traumatized to go to police sooner (like the times DPS made that avenue available) or was there another reason to wait half a year before coming forward?
And until the time comes, why automatically assume the alleged victims are truthful? Maybe I'm cynical, but I had a friend do 2 years in prison for "statutory rape". He had been dating the same girl for years and turned 18 before she did. He broke up with her and she went berserk. Instead of rationally accepting the break-up, she got her dad to press charges. I also once had a similar scare. I broke up with a girl and a while later slept with her friend at a party. Rather than admitting to my ex (and her friend) that she had betrayed her trust, she said she didn't remember and I must have raped her. Thankfully it never went further than that. So I apologize if I'm insensitive, but when three seperate authorities find no evidence even with the alleged victim's aid, and when the victim sits on it for 5 months, and there seems to be a hopeful relationship that never came to fruition, I'm a skeptic.
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on July 15, 2011, 09:24:29 PM
IU
No one gone. No one resigned. No one fired.
#1 recruiting class in the nation coming in
Drew Adams "resigned" and went to New Mexico - dig deeper here, guy.
Indiana does not have the #1 recruiting class in the nation coming in for 2011. They have one slim center who is very good, a traditional shooter, and another kid coming in. They are nowhere near #1.
Of course, you're probably talking about a future year - specifically 2012. You have vehemently expressed your opinion that no one - absolutely no one - is committed to a school for 2012... I guess this opinion changes based on what program you're talking about.
I4's 2012 class has been referred to as the best at a given point in time, but this is largely due to the fact that Crean has gotten verbal commits out of
his AAU company very young kids, years before (as you would say) they are even able to commit to a program.
They will not have the CONSENSUS #1 class coming in for 2012 when it is talked about ~15 months from now. Not having Hanner be eligible to play for I4 would be a bummer for you guys.
Quote from: brewcity77 on July 16, 2011, 05:48:11 AM
I suppose it will be, but seeing as DPS, MPD, and the DA with access to medical records (as I assume a cooperative plaintiff would allow their release) haven't come up with ANY evidence. And will she say she was just too traumatized to go to police sooner (like the times DPS made that avenue available) or was there another reason to wait half a year before coming forward?
And until the time comes, why automatically assume the alleged victims are truthful? Maybe I'm cynical, but I had a friend do 2 years in prison for "statutory rape". He had been dating the same girl for years and turned 18 before she did. He broke up with her and she went berserk. Instead of rationally accepting the break-up, she got her dad to press charges. I also once had a similar scare. I broke up with a girl and a while later slept with her friend at a party. Rather than admitting to my ex (and her friend) that she had betrayed her trust, she said she didn't remember and I must have raped her. Thankfully it never went further than that. So I apologize if I'm insensitive, but when three seperate authorities find no evidence even with the alleged victim's aid, and when the victim sits on it for 5 months, and there seems to be a hopeful relationship that never came to fruition, I'm a skeptic.
+1000. There is a song by the band Buck Cherry called: Crazy B$tch. The very cliche crazy b$tch exists for a reason. I've personally dealt with a couple of whack jobs, who though very hot, were very crazy and caused me plenty of drama....particularly after breaking up with them. Another cliche comes to mind: Hell hath no fury, like a woman scorned. And my 2 cents - this is exactly what happened here...
Ahh...Ners continues to blame the victim. Despite the fact he has no idea who she is and what she is like. Do us all a favor and keep your two cents, along with your armchair psychology.
Anything to keep Buzz and the players in a good light I guess...
Quote from: Jay Bee on July 16, 2011, 06:08:08 AM
Drew Adams "resigned" and went to New Mexico - dig deeper here, guy.
Indiana does not have the #1 recruiting class in the nation coming in for 2011. They have one slim center who is very good, a traditional shooter, and another kid coming in. They are nowhere near #1.
Of course, you're probably talking about a future year - specifically 2012. You have vehemently expressed your opinion that no one - absolutely no one - is committed to a school for 2012... I guess this opinion changes based on what program you're talking about.
I4's 2012 class has been referred to as the best at a given point in time, but this is largely due to the fact that Crean has gotten verbal commits out of his AAU company very young kids, years before (as you would say) they are even able to commit to a program.
They will not have the CONSENSUS #1 class coming in for 2012 when it is talked about ~15 months from now. Not having Hanner be eligible to play for I4 would be a bummer for you guys.
I don't recall saying #1 recruiting class for this year...in fact I didn't mention 2011 at all. I said the #1 recruiting class coming in. Right now, they are ranked #1. Will it be #1 then? Who knows. Do you think Hanner will be ineligible entirely? Maybe...I don't think that will be the case and the follow-up articles on ESPN destroying the Fish's commentary pretty much sum that up
Drew Adams left to work with Steve Alford, who he played for at Iowa. He was given a promotion at his new job....dig deeper guy.
I'm still waiting for the fallout since someone really thinks these are on par. One involved multiple CURRENT student athletes, cost the school their AD, gave us enormous negative press, exposed we were in violation of the law for 10 years, made the school apologize 3 times, etc, etc.....vs the other where the kid is still in high school, is not a student athlete of any kind at the university, was not considered a criminal act, no one lost their job, etc, etc. But hey, let's not deal with the facts.
Quote from: brewcity77 on July 16, 2011, 05:48:11 AM
I suppose it will be, but seeing as DPS, MPD, and the DA with access to medical records (as I assume a cooperative plaintiff would allow their release) haven't come up with ANY evidence. And will she say she was just too traumatized to go to police sooner (like the times DPS made that avenue available) or was there another reason to wait half a year before coming forward?
I think maybe we are talking about different incidents. The Tribune reported the February incident she reported within hours of the incident happening.
Secondly, there was medical reporting on this. "Medical reports from that visit show the woman had vaginal abrasions, in addition to fresh injuries on her face, hip, foot, knee and both thighs, according to documents obtained by the Tribune."
She could sue in any number of areas....doesn't mean she will win. At the end of the day, she left the university where she was pursuing an education, perhaps a dream, etc, because the school failed her. She is clearly emotional and suffered as a result of it. I've seen plenty of lawsuits that were filed for far less and won damages. She claims the DPS officer said MPD wouldn't want to investigate her claim...("She did, only to be told that police wouldn't want to investigate her case and that the university's internal discipline process would likely cause her more harm than good, she said. The officer did not take an official report, she said.")....these are the kinds of things that she can build a civil case on if she wishes. Again, doesn't mean she is going to win but at the end of the day
1) Woman at MU, studying, claims to be raped
2) DPS says MPD probably wouldn't investigate so why bother....more harm than good to go through internal process (basically..suck it up sweetheart)
3) Woman left university emotionally damaged
4) MU admitted to be in violation of state law for 10 years
5) Medical information did show some injuries
6) Players and coaches rebuked and disciplined (why....if nothing happened and no wrong doing occurred) :o
Etc
That's hardly thin for her to pursue this if she wishes. It's no slam dunk, either.
Quote from: The Sultan of South Wayne on July 16, 2011, 10:08:27 AM
Ahh...Ners continues to blame the victim. Despite the fact he has no idea who she is and what she is like. Do us all a favor and keep your two cents, along with your armchair psychology.
Anything to keep Buzz and the players in a good light I guess...
Why don't you enlighten all of us Sultan and tell us your relationship to the victim, and what you perceive her to be like? How much time have you spent around her? Here's a fact for you Sultan - how someone acts in their public life, and social life, can be quite different than their love life. If you can't understand that basic piece of armchair psychology, Lord help you.
If you would, since it sounds like you are closely connected to the victim, can you share with us her reasoning as to why she didn't go to police when offered by DPS?? Just to indulge you, I'll give you a bit more armchair psychology - considering she'd had a previous consensual sexual relationship with the player, began that evening consensually - I'm sure in her somewhat sane mind she realized she didn't want the player charged or for the police to be involved. Having said that, as more time passed and the player didn't ever get back together with her (assuming), her bitterness won out and she decided to try to extract some form of revenge.
Whatever the case, it is not an emotionally stable person who begins having sex, and then halfway through it decides no thanks.....
Quote from: Ners on July 16, 2011, 11:47:00 AM
Why don't you enlighten all of us Sultan and tell us your relationship to the victim, and what you perceive her to be like? How much time have you spent around her? Here's a fact for you Sultan - how someone acts in their public life, and social life, can be quite different than their love life. If you can't understand that basic piece of armchair psychology, Lord help you.
If you would, since it sounds like you are closely connected to the victim, can you share with us her reasoning as to why she didn't go to police when offered by DPS??
See, *I* don't know the victim. I have no clue who she is. Therefore, I will decline to make any assumptions about her mental state...or insinuate that she is a "crazy bitch"...or assume that she was simply a "woman scored." And I most certainly would not post such assumptions in a public forum.
Ners, and you know that I know who the accused are in one of these incidents. I have not made any statements about him either. I have no idea if he is guilty or not...and neither do you. The difference is that one of us feels perfectly comfortable about making half-assed assumptions and accusations...and one of us doesn't.
Quote from: The Sultan of South Wayne on July 16, 2011, 12:06:22 PM
See, *I* don't know the victim. I have no clue who she is. Therefore, I will decline to make any assumptions about her mental state...or insinuate that she is a "crazy bitch"...or assume that she was simply a "woman scored." And I most certainly would not post such assumptions in a public forum.
Ners, and you know that I know who the accused are in one of these incidents. I have not made any statements about him either. I have no idea if he is guilty or not...and neither do you. The difference is that one of us feels perfectly comfortable about making half-assed assumptions and accusations...and one of us doesn't.
Well stated. The idea that a woman cannot change her mind, especially based on what is going on at the time, is absurd. What if the guy is calling her names, taking her in a direction she didn't want to go, etc, etc....of course she can say no and I'd say she is absolutely emotionally stable for doing so.
In fact, a Maryland appeals court has ruled just that. "Women can say "no" at any time during intercourse, and a man can be convicted of rape if he doesn't stop, Maryland highest court ruled Wednesday."
"The crime of first-degree rape includes post-penetration vaginal intercourse accomplished through force or threat of force and without the consent of the victim, even if the victim consented to the initial penetration," the Court of Appeals wrote.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/04/16/AR2008041602921.html
Anyone who thinks Public Safety turned a blind eye/ear to a believable sexual assault victim is deluding themselves.
Quote from: mu_hilltopper on July 16, 2011, 12:45:16 PM
Anyone who thinks Public Safety turned a blind eye/ear to a believable sexual assault victim is deluding themselves.
I disagree and it's proven right here in this thread. Blind eye...you're probably correct but that doesn't mean the DPS officer didn't view things through the same lens that some here view it. Several guys here basically says it's impossible to start consensual sex and then back out of it. I'll bet there are many others that feel the same way. Yet a Maryland court says that absolutely a woman has the right to do this.
Right there that is two conflicting viewpoints on the subject of consensual sex. A court is saying she can say no at any time. Others are labeling a woman that does this as not sane, an emotional trainwreck, etc.
Who is to say a DPS officer concluded the same thing..."sorry honey, once you started consensual sex too bad so sad". I'm not trying to be flip, but just based on the comments on this board alone there are people that believe this to be the case, despite what the courts have ruled. I don't see how it is any stretch at all that a DPS officer could believe the same thing and just figured once you start there's no going back.
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on July 16, 2011, 01:10:17 PM
I don't see how it is any stretch at all that a DPS officer could believe the same thing and just figured once you start there's no going back.
It's a stretch unless your agenda is attacking MU. If the scenario you laid out were truly the case, I would be appalled and sickened. Now, if there is a log book that says "girl said they were doing it and she wanted to stop - yeah right!", then let's freak out... but I have not seen it and it's a stretch for any objective, reasonable person, despite that in your mind it may seem likely.
Nothing has been 'proven right here in this thread'. There is a huge difference between voicing your opinion on a message board and people who are carrying out duties as an officer.
Quote from: The Sultan of South Wayne on July 16, 2011, 12:06:22 PM
See, *I* don't know the victim. I have no clue who she is. Therefore, I will decline to make any assumptions about her mental state...or insinuate that she is a "crazy bitch"...or assume that she was simply a "woman scored." And I most certainly would not post such assumptions in a public forum.
Ners, and you know that I know who the accused are in one of these incidents. I have not made any statements about him either. I have no idea if he is guilty or not...and neither do you. The difference is that one of us feels perfectly comfortable about making half-assed assumptions and accusations...and one of us doesn't.
You say you make no assumptions, yet you refer to her over and over again in multiple posts as the "victim". Sounds like you're assuming more than anyone else in this whole matter.
Quote from: Jay Bee on July 16, 2011, 01:31:06 PM
It's a stretch unless your agenda is attacking MU. If the scenario you laid out were truly the case, I would be appalled and sickened. Now, if there is a log book that says "girl said they were doing it and she wanted to stop - yeah right!", then let's freak out... but I have not seen it and it's a stretch for any objective, reasonable person, despite that in your mind it may seem likely.
Nothing has been 'proven right here in this thread'. There is a huge difference between voicing your opinion on a message board and people who are carrying out duties as an officer.
Hardly. I just don't stick my head in the sand. I question my gov't at times, does that mean I hate the USA? Please.
What was "proven in this thread" is that some people truly think that a woman cannot say no after saying yes and their own words TIME and TIME again reinforce this. I'm merely pointing out that even in a court of law that was the viewpoint of some until an appellate court provided some clarity on it. I'm happy to help those that didn't know that was the case and hopefully their continued approach to belittle someone, a potential sexual assault victim, will stop now since they've been educated on what the law says.
Quote from: Lennys Tap on July 16, 2011, 01:39:21 PM
You say you make no assumptions, yet you refer to her over and over again in multiple posts as the "victim". Sounds like you're assuming more than anyone else in this whole matter.
She was found to be the victim of sexual harrassment. News reports used that phrase when the story was first reported in March.
Seriously, what a lame response.
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on July 16, 2011, 12:10:44 PM
In fact, a Maryland appeals court has ruled just that. "Women can say "no" at any time during intercourse, and a man can be convicted of rape if he doesn't stop, Maryland highest court ruled Wednesday."
"The crime of first-degree rape includes post-penetration vaginal intercourse accomplished through force or threat of force and without the consent of the victim, even if the victim consented to the initial penetration," the Court of Appeals wrote.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/04/16/AR2008041602921.html
So I can name any appellate or Supreme court ruling ever made and you will believe it and defend it as an example of just and correct thinking. This should be fun.
Quote from: The Sultan of South Wayne on July 16, 2011, 01:51:12 PM
She was found to be the victim of sexual harrassment. News reports used that phrase when the story was first reported in March.
Seriously, what a lame response.
In what court was she found to be the victim of sexual harassment? IIRC, MU found sexual harrassment in the October incident, not the February one, but either way you're being totally disingenuous. She claims to be a "victim" of sexual assault, and referring to her as such gives credence to her claim, a claim that at this point remains unproven in every way, shape and form.
How the media reports it is irrelevant. Since when are they not capable of inaccuracy or bias?
Finally, calling someone else "lame" when you're so obviously wrong is the epitome of lame.
Quote from: Lennys Tap on July 16, 2011, 01:53:28 PM
So I can name any appellate or Supreme court ruling ever made and you will believe it and defend it as an example of just and correct thinking. This should be fun.
Nope...we can agree to disagree on many rulings in the courts, but that doesn't change the fact it's the law of the land. Isn't that the point?
You are free to say a woman has no right to say no once you've laid into her, you're free to feel that once you pass Go you collect $200 and everything else that goes with it, you're free to say that the courts are wrong...they often are in my opinion but that doesn't change the fact it is the law. Unless the courts change their interpretation, precedent has been set. We're a nation of laws, even the ones we don't agree with. There are plenty I don't, but somehow I think the judge might get a quick chuckle if I say "sorry judge, I don't agree with that law and believe the thinking is not correct". That would be a wonderful defense.
Quote from: Lennys Tap on July 16, 2011, 02:10:18 PM
In what court was she found to be the victim of sexual harassment? IIRC, MU found sexual harrassment in the October incident, not the February one, but either way you're being totally disingenuous. She claims to be a "victim" of sexual assault, and referring to her as such gives credence to her claim, a claim that at this point remains unproven in every way, shape and form.
How the media reports it is irrelevant. Since when are they not capable of inaccuracy or bias?
Finally, calling someone else "lame" when you're so obviously wrong is the epitome of lame.
WOW. So a woman that is raped but never reports it to the police is not a victim because no court found guilt? Incredible. I'm not saying this woman was raped, but using a broader example to show how foolish your response was. Women are raped all the time in this world and never report it. THEY ARE VICTIMS whether there is a court proceeding or not.
I guess Casey Anthony's child is not a victim, because the court didn't find anyone guilty of murdering her.
Please, Lenny, describe what constitutes a victim in your mind since apparently a court ruling is attached to it per your last entry. This ought to be good.
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on July 15, 2011, 10:59:57 PM
I'm sorry MUBasketball, but the discussion was about Marquette and it was not I that brought the other school into the debate. But as is ALWAYS the case you ignore who brought it up (not me) and only go after the response.
Why is that? Why do you not have the intellectual integrity to answer that question?
Better yet, why don't you take a crack at answering the question that was proposed. Is it worse to have your school have multiple student athletes accused of sexual assault (rape) multiple times, end up being put on the front page of the largest newspaper in the midwest, lose your AD, have the university change a policy because they were in violation of state law for 10 years and had to put their tail between their legs in admitting as such, etc, etc.....or have a recruit that has yet to spend 1 second on campus as a student athlete get a free plane ticket to his native country.
Come to think of it, since you're a UW-hyphen Milwaukee grad, why don't you go over to their board? LOL. Two can play this game if you wish.
I have no idea what happened, so I'm not going to get into a debate about a touchy subject that nobody has the answers to. What happened? I don't know. What happened internally concerning the allegations? I have no idea.
Of course, you assume the worst. And then, to nobody's surprise, comparisons to Crean pop up. You're so predictable it's laughable.
Yes, I am a UWM grad. Whenever I want to discuss UWM hoops, I go over to the UWM board. Makes sense, I think. Or, whenever I want a discussion concerning any team, I go to their respective board. I don't understand why you constantly bring up Crean on here. Move on, I beg you!
Quote from: Lennys Tap on July 16, 2011, 02:10:18 PM
In what court was she found to be the victim of sexual harassment? IIRC, MU found sexual harrassment in the October incident, not the February one, but either way you're being totally disingenuous. She claims to be a "victim" of sexual assault, and referring to her as such gives credence to her claim, a claim that at this point remains unproven in every way, shape and form.
How the media reports it is irrelevant. Since when are they not capable of inaccuracy or bias?
Finally, calling someone else "lame" when you're so obviously wrong is the epitome of lame.
Lets see.... Either I'll use the term how the media uses it....or I will go with Lennys....
I think I'll stick with the media. (They have less bias than Lennys.)
Quote from: MUBasketball on July 16, 2011, 02:31:47 PM
I don't understand why you constantly bring up Crean on here. Move on, I beg you!
I DIDN'T BRING HIM UP SUNSHINE. Someone else did http://www.muscoop.com/index.php?topic=27353.msg312101#msg312101
Again, focus your energy on the person that actually BROUGHT HIM UP. Please, I beg you!!!
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on July 16, 2011, 02:27:46 PM
WOW. So a woman that is raped but never reports it to the police is not a victim because no court found guilt? Incredible.
I guess Casey Anthony's child is not a victim, because the court didn't find anyone guilty of murdering her.
Please, Lenny, describe what constitutes a victim in your mind since apparently a court ruling is attached to it per your last entry. This ought to be good.
WOW is right. Cayley Anthony is most certainly a victim. Her dead (duct taped) body established that. None of the jurors denied her victimhood, only that the state failed to prove Casey Anthony did it.
Who's the victim here? Whoever is telling the truth. Annointing the accuser in a he said/she said situation with that status automatically is dangerous. It's how the Duke lacrosse case spun out of control.
I'm curious as to how you define "victim". Does merely making accusations make it so?
So you admit a court ruling isn't the qualifier needed to make someone a victim. Good....progress.
Do you also admit that there are women throughout this country that are sexually assaulted and convinced not to go to authorities, or choose not to go to authorities but are victims nonetheless?
Quote from: The Sultan of South Wayne on July 16, 2011, 02:35:44 PM
Lets see.... Either I'll use the term how the media uses it....or I will go with Lennys....
I think I'll stick with the media. (They have less bias than Lennys.)
Let's see.... Is there any chance that the sex between the accuser and the accused was consensual? If so, would that mean that the accuser was the perpatrator and the accused was the victim? Most definitely.
I have no bias in this matter whatsoever. I have no way of knowing whether the sex was forced or consensual. Therefore I have no idea who the victim is in this sordid, sad story. Neither does TMJ, the Tribune or you. But I do know that words mean something and carry implications. When you annoint an accuser with unqualified victimhood you damn the accused with guilt.
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on July 16, 2011, 03:16:42 PM
So you admit a court ruling isn't the qualifier needed to make someone a victim. Good....progress.
Do you also admit that there are women throughout this country that are sexually assaulted and convinced not to go to authorities, or choose not to go to authorities but are victims nonetheless?
No "progress" needed. I never said that a court ruling was necessary to prove whether or not there was a victim. I'll make this so simple you can't twist it or misunderstand it. There is a victim in all he said/she said cases. That would be whoever is telling the truth. Just how do you know who that is in this case?
Do I admit that victims of sexual assault (and other crimes) sometimes elect not to go to the authorities? Of course. When did I ever say otherwise and what does it have to do with this case?
Quote from: Lennys Tap on July 16, 2011, 03:20:19 PM
I have no bias in this matter whatsoever. I have no way of knowing whether the sex was forced or consensual. Therefore I have no idea who the victim is in this sordid, sad story. Neither does TMJ, the Tribune or you. But I do know that words mean something and carry implications. When you annoint an accuser with unqualified victimhood you damn the accused with guilt.
You know what I just realized? **NERS** also referred to her the victim. He brought it up in the question he asked me...
LOL, get off you're high horse....what a joke...
Another reference to the Duke case. Shameful that some of you continue to lump the Duke LAX stripper/prostitute situation as some comparison to a regular co-ed at Marquette. Anything to justify the team and actions. Anything to pretend this didn't happen and the university, teams, players were just whislin dixie and it's a crazed coed's fault. I hope she sues and wins plenty from MU the way the university has handled this. It would also put some of you with the bunker mentality to open your eyes.
In the Duke case a woman was hired to perform a service. She had a highly questionable background and it spun out of control because a bunch of professors and race baiters couldn't wait to play the card that white, priviledged young men were doing harm to an African American woman at a private university.
There are no similarities at all between that case and Marquette's situation. The victim was a female student at Marquette. A tuition paying member of the student body. She was not hired off the street to strip for the LAX team or the basketball team. She was at Marquette to get an education. Her transgression was to be intimate in the past with a member(s) of an athletic team at MU. Past actions do not mean a free ride in the sack whenver the athlete wants. It doesn't even mean a free ride if the she says it's cool and then decides midcourse that the ride is over. It's OVER right then and there.
The continued smearing of these women is terribly sad. Anything to win. Anything to protect the student athlete. These women aren't victims, they asked for it. Once they started, they should finish. Duke Lacrosse. Victims are those found to be victims only in the eyes of a court. What is wrong with you people?
MU screwed up. They failed. Miserably. Our athletic director is now gone. The university broke the damn law and did so for a decade. What are people failing to understand here?
Quote from: The Sultan of South Wayne on July 16, 2011, 03:31:05 PM
You know what I just realized? **NERS** also referred to her the victim. He brought it up in the question he asked me...
LOL, get off you're high horse....what a joke...
That would make **NERS** wrong also. Keep the insults coming. When you're wrong on substance that's the lowest and easiest road to travel.
Quote from: mu_hilltopper on July 16, 2011, 12:45:16 PM
Anyone who thinks Public Safety turned a blind eye/ear to a believable sexual assault victim is deluding themselves.
Public Safety? Probably not. The rest of the bureaucracy? I knew someone who had been kidnapped, taken to North side ATMs and dumped back on campus, and a self-titled "Dr." head of one of MU's main departments told her to shut up about it at her campus job so potential students wouldn't hear about it. I think some administration officials at Marquette would cover up murder if they needed to.
Quote from: Hoopaloop on July 16, 2011, 03:52:12 PM
The continued smearing of these women is terribly sad. Anything to win. Anything to protect the student athlete. These women aren't victims, they asked for it. Once they started, they should finish. Duke Lacrosse. Victims are those found to be victims only in the eyes of a court. What is wrong with you people?
You're absolutely right.
Also terribly sad is the continued smearing of these male Marquette University students, who not only have not been convicted of any illegal acts, they haven't even been charged. To the contrary, multiple investigatory agencies that looked into these claims have determined there is no credible evidence by which to charge them. And it's not as if there's a high burden to get an indictment. You know what they say about grand juries and ham sandwiches, right?
And yet that doesn't stop certain message board clowns from accusing them of taking a "free ride ... whenever the athlete wants" and declaring that an accuser is a crime victim.
Pot, say hello to kettle.
Quote from: Lennys Tap on July 16, 2011, 03:52:33 PM
That would make **NERS** wrong also. Keep the insults coming. When you're wrong on substance that's the lowest and easiest road to travel.
I'm not "wrong on substance." I used a phrase that has been commonly used on this board to describe the female in this case. Don't like it? Don't care. Save your OUTRAGE for a true injustice...
Quote from: The Sultan of South Wayne on July 16, 2011, 04:12:27 PM
I'm not "wrong on substance." I used a phrase that has been commonly used on this board to describe the female in this case. Don't like it? Don't care. Save your OUTRAGE for a true injustice...
Not OUTRAGED. Bemused.
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on July 16, 2011, 01:10:17 PM
I disagree and it's proven right here in this thread. Blind eye...you're probably correct but that doesn't mean the DPS officer didn't view things through the same lens that some here view it.
If you want to go on thinking that the professionals who staff the DPS hold the same views people on an anonymous basketball forum profess in defense of their team (and gender) .. I stand by my statement.
Quote from: warrior07 on July 16, 2011, 04:02:00 PM
Public Safety? Probably not. The rest of the bureaucracy? I knew someone who had been kidnapped, taken to North side ATMs and dumped back on campus, and a self-titled "Dr." head of one of MU's main departments told her to shut up about it at her campus job so potential students wouldn't hear about it. I think some administration officials at Marquette would cover up murder if they needed to.
That's an amazing accusation. Especially since there's a ALWAYS a handful of crime events on campus, year in, year out. Please produce evidence of anything remotely like your story. It is quite unbelievable.
Quote from: mu_hilltopper on July 16, 2011, 04:43:25 PM
That's an amazing accusation. Especially since there's a ALWAYS a handful of crime events on campus, year in, year out. Please produce evidence of anything remotely like your story. It is quite unbelievable.
Feel free to to message me and I can give you his name so you can call him yourself.
Of course it's unbelievable to you. If Wild et al told you sh!t was gold, you'd probably buy it, like most people on this board.
Quote from: mu_hilltopper on July 16, 2011, 04:43:25 PM
That's an amazing accusation. Especially since there's a ALWAYS a handful of crime events on campus, year in, year out. Please produce evidence of anything remotely like your story. It is quite unbelievable.
Uhhh...topper...not to be a dick but, this may not be the same student, but this happened several times when I was on campus. The Trib even ran an article, and I could have sworn there as a topic as such on here about it.
Quote from: Pakuni on July 16, 2011, 04:02:57 PM
You're absolutely right.
Also terribly sad is the continued smearing of these male Marquette University students, who not only have not been convicted of any illegal acts, they haven't even been charged.
Who is smearing the male students?
I've been steadfast is suggesting that a full and proper investigation
would be equally valuable to an innocent male student as it would be for bringing a guilty male to justice.
Think of where those Duke players would be today without the corroborative evidence collected by the Durham Police Department that was instrumental in undermining Michael Nifong's case and exposing Crystal Magnum's lies.
Quote from: Pakuni on July 16, 2011, 04:02:57 PM
To the contrary, multiple investigatory agencies that looked into these claims have determined there is no credible evidence by which to charge them.
Not true.
The agencies that looked into these claims have determined that was
insufficient evidence by which to charge them. Its a major stretch on your part to say there is "no credible evidence."
If you had even a shred of decency, you'd admit that there most certainly is credible evidence (the victim's report, the hospital records), but that evidence is insufficient to assure a conviction.
Furthermore, you neglected to mention that one of the reasons why there isn't enough evidence to charge anyone is that the agencies were not able to conduct a proper and timely investigation.
Here's what was said about those agencies:
"No law enforcement agency was able to adequately investigate this matter at the time it occurred, and the subsequent efforts by the Milwaukee Police Department were inhibited by the fact that it did not receive this information until several months after the incident occurred."
and
"An immediate and thorough police investigation of this incident may have yielded additional compelling evidence. Unfortunately a police investigation undertaken even four weeks later was not able to produce corroborate evidence that would support a criminal prosecution"
Quote from: mu_hilltopper on July 16, 2011, 04:39:26 PM
If you want to go on thinking that the professionals who staff the DPS hold the same views people on an anonymous basketball forum profess in defense of their team (and gender) .. I stand by my statement.
Fair enough but I've met enough cops in my life that don't know the laws (or need to brush up on them) that holding DPS to that standard seems high. No officer knows all the laws, and there is not an exception with a DPS officer either.
To each their own.
Quote from: Lennys Tap on July 16, 2011, 03:22:17 PM
No "progress" needed. I never said that a court ruling was necessary to prove whether or not there was a victim. I'll make this so simple you can't twist it or misunderstand it. There is a victim in all he said/she said cases. That would be whoever is telling the truth. Just how do you know who that is in this case?
Do I admit that victims of sexual assault (and other crimes) sometimes elect not to go to the authorities? Of course. When did I ever say otherwise and what does it have to do with this case?
Don't be so naive Lenny. A person can believe they are telling the truth 100% and still be 100% in the wrong.
To this day I find it interesting that the AD is gone, the coaches reprimanded, the players disciplined but they all did nothing wrong. Apparently the university was just going through some fun with those actions. Let's not pretend some, especially one individual in particular, has done everything in his power to claim these women were either lying, unstable, etc, etc....anything to protect.
Quote from: warrior07 on July 16, 2011, 04:52:34 PM
Feel free to to message me and I can give you his name so you can call him yourself.
Of course it's unbelievable to you. If Wild et al told you sh!t was gold, you'd probably buy it, like most people on this board.
http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:NYnIcF1Kj0cJ:www.postcrescent.com/article/20110323/APC0101/110323079/Man-wanted-alleged-kidnapping-robbery-Marquette-student-captured-after-5-years-run+marquette+student+kidnapped&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us&client=firefox-a&source=www.google.com
and this incident
http://www.wisn.com/r/15529627/detail.html
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on July 16, 2011, 09:26:50 PM
http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:NYnIcF1Kj0cJ:www.postcrescent.com/article/20110323/APC0101/110323079/Man-wanted-alleged-kidnapping-robbery-Marquette-student-captured-after-5-years-run+marquette+student+kidnapped&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us&client=firefox-a&source=www.google.com
and this incident
http://www.wisn.com/r/15529627/detail.html
I'm not referring to that kidnapping. I'm referring to one from 2006 that wasn't publicized in the media. I know of another one that happened in 2007. It wouldn't surprise me if this was an annual occurance at Marquette (and UWM, for that matter).
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on July 16, 2011, 09:24:37 PM
Don't be so naive Lenny. A person can believe they are telling the truth 100% and still be 100% in the wrong.
To this day I find it interesting that the AD is gone, the coaches reprimanded, the players disciplined but they all did nothing wrong. Apparently the university was just going through some fun with those actions. Let's not pretend some, especially one individual in particular, has done everything in his power to claim these women were either lying, unstable, etc, etc....anything to protect.
You comingle all of the situations. Yes, the coaches and players were disciplined. If you do not recall, in one incident the players were found guilty of Sexual Harrassment. I suspect that situation is the one where the players, coaches, et al were found guilty.
And yes, the AD is gone. He was also the University Counsel at the time that MU's policy was implemented that did not fully comply with State Law. So, why is he gone?
Quote from: MUMac on July 16, 2011, 10:26:25 PM
You co-mingling all of the situations. Yes, the coaches and players were disciplined. If you do not recall, in one incident the players were found guilty of Sexual Harrassment. I suspect that situation is the one where the players, coaches, et al were found guilty.
And yes, the AD is gone. He was also the University Counsel at the time that MU's policy was implemented that did not fully comply with State Law. So, why is he gone?
Ding ding ding. Correct, he was General Counsel at the time when that policy was adopted.....only goes to show what I said earlier, not all lawyers agree on these things now do they? Nor do all jurists. Of course not.
Question for you...do you think MU was in violation of state law in these two cases (sorry for co-mingling)? I've had several of Dodds brethren email me here to claim that MU did
NOT break any laws whatsoever based on the legal opinions of some of their posters. I do not understand, then, why multiple news outlets directly attribute MU sources as saying MU violated state law in this process. Is it a conspiracy? Are these news outlets lying? It seems you are calling it like it is...we broke the law. I don't know why this is so damn hard for others to admit. Some folks have their heads so buried in the sand they can see China at this point.