MUScoop
MUScoop => Hangin' at the Al => Topic started by: Ellenson Guerrero on July 08, 2011, 05:36:49 PM
-
Last year I posted updates from the Pro Am for those who couldn't attend. People seemed to appreciate them so I'll be doing the same this year, only from my twitter account as it will be easier to upload. Follow me at #Wegz17 if you are interested. I won't be at all the games but I plan on making as many as I can.
-
Thanks Wets. I'm looking forward to it.
-
Vander running the point. And Jake Thomas has disgusting range.
-
And Wegs is very impressed with JA. Said that he is 6'7"...maybe even 6'8".
I like that.
-
I'd put JA at at least 6'8". Level with Nankivil and about 2 inches shorter than Otule. The star so far is Cadougan. Good looking range out to 3, distributing, and had one steal/drive/dunk sequence (yeah, he threw it down). Jones also has good range.
-
I didn't even know Cadougan could dunk hahah. I think Junior broke out at the end of last year, and showed what he is capable of I look forward to seeing what he can do this year. How is Jamail looking overall?? I think he could be great this year as well, along with Vander.
-
I didn't even know Cadougan could dunk hahah. I think Junior broke out at the end of last year, and showed what he is capable of I look forward to seeing what he can do this year. How is Jamail looking overall?? I think he could be great this year as well, along with Vander.
Vander not looking too hot thus far, according to Weg.
-
Any hot lookin' cheerleaders out there this season?
-
I temper my enthusiasm every year with this and similar reports. Every year player XYZ got HUGE ripped over the Summer, player ABC dropped 10lbs, and player 123's range is now 6 feet further back.
I love the reports, but seen way too much of this year after year and the season rolls around and you wonder what happened. I'm excited, but tempered considerably.
-
Well there is photographic evidence of how Gardner lost weight, and also of how Jamail got what I guess you call HUGE ripped...
-
The biggest question with Vander is, how do the mechanics of his shot look? His entire game will improve 100% if he starts knocking down jumpers consistently. I hope they are working on that daily. If he improves that, he will be special.
GO MU!
-
The biggest question with Vander is, how do the mechanics of his shot look? His entire game will improve 100% if he starts knocking down jumpers consistently. I hope they are working on that daily. If he improves that, he will be special.
GO MU!
Yeah - He has to "re-engineer" his jumper. But for an athlete as gifted as he, with a few months to do the work, it's completely achievable.
-
The biggest question with Vander is, how do the mechanics of his shot look? His entire game will improve 100% if he starts knocking down jumpers consistently. I hope they are working on that daily. If he improves that, he will be special.
GO MU!
My fear with Vander is that he's going to be Dominic James 2.0 - except Vander hit his ceiling as a Junior in high school, whereas James hit his Freshman year at MU. James was always tweaking his shot at MU...as for Vander - I'd say forget all the mechanics, and everything else - just shoot how it feels most natural. Jim Furyk has a TERRIBLE golf swing - but it works for him. Shawn Marion has a completely funky release on his shot..but it works for him. Michael Redd had a slingshot shooting motion..it worked for him. Kenny the Jet Smith...had shooting form similar to Vander currently...
The hell with what it is "supposed to look like," just get results..however they come.. and let go of the mental gymnastics that go along with focusing on form, fundamentals, etc. Just let it rip Vander..be free...it will be at that moment that his shots start falling again.
-
Nobody other than Jake Thomas stood out to me.
Nice set-up at Greenfield High School.
-
Cadougan and Gardner stood out to me.......
-
Nobody other than Jake Thomas stood out to me.
Nice set-up at Greenfield High School.
Cadougan was outstanding. Marquette won't find a better big man prospect in the 2012 recruiting class than Davante Gardner. Jamil Wilson was really hobbling with an ankle and could only shoot 3's tonight. Jake Thomas will help in 2012-2013.
After seeing Gardner in the opening day of last years Pro-Am, I didn't know if he would make it one year at MU and now I'm wondering how he won't average in double figures as a sophomore, even if he splits time with Otule. The guy has special offensive ability and with his revised body, he's got more quickness, agility and stamina.
-
Jake Thomas will help in 2012-2013.
All due respect to both you and Jake Thomas, but why does anyone think this is possible?
-
All due respect to both you and Jake Thomas, but why does anyone think this is possible?
I think if he was going to contribute, Buzz would have given him one of the free scholarships we still have open.
-
I think if he was going to contribute, Buzz would have given him one of the free scholarships we still have open.
He was better than a couple of the scholarship guys for MU last night and by a wide margin in one case. Best walk-on I've seen at Marquette.
-
All due respect to both you and Jake Thomas, but why does anyone think this is possible?
because he's a zone buster and will open up lanes without having to touch the ball...
-
All due respect to both you and Jake Thomas, but why does anyone think this is possible?
This kid is not Tommy Brice or Rob Frosena. This kid has a legitimate Division 1 basketball skill in shooting the 3. Granted he probably can't do anything else or guard anyone, but if you are down 3 with 5 seconds on the clock, I want JT on the floor.
-
a 6'5 novak without the advanced defensive skills?
-
I temper my enthusiasm every year with this and similar reports. Every year player XYZ got HUGE ripped over the Summer, player ABC dropped 10lbs, and player 123's range is now 6 feet further back.
I love the reports, but seen way too much of this year after year and the season rolls around and you wonder what happened. I'm excited, but tempered considerably.
I know what you mean, CBB. Same thing happens to me every summer: I get HUGE, I add 10 lbs, my range is 6 feet closer. By the time the season rolls around, I wonder what happened.
-
He was better than a couple of the scholarship guys for MU last night and by a wide margin in one case. Best walk-on I've seen at Marquette.
Not surprised to hear this Baxter - the kid got 13 points against Marquette when they played. Don't care if he was on a crappy South Dakota team, he still faced MU defense. I'll never understand the pessimism many here had when it was announced Jake was transferring to MU. Many have clamored for a traditional, dead eye shooter...VOILA....Jake shows up, scholarship-free, and some here piled on the kid and wrote him off as a nothing/typical walk on.
Should be interesting to see how it plays out..
-
Not surprised to hear this Baxter - the kid got 13 points against Marquette when they played. Don't care if he was on a crappy South Dakota team, he still faced MU defense. I'll never understand the pessimism many here had when it was announced Jake was transferring to MU. Many have clamored for a traditional, dead eye shooter...VOILA....Jake shows up, scholarship-free, and some here piled on the kid and wrote him off as a nothing/typical walk on.
Should be interesting to see how it plays out..
Baxter's comments don't sound much different than Wes Matthews comments on Singleton last year. And by the time he left, many here piled on Singleton as just an ordinary walk-on who wouldn't have played much anyway.
Lets keep in mind that we will have 3 scholarship players at his position next year (Cadougan, Derrick Wilson and TJ Taylor). If Thomas is better than one of those players, then the wrong guy has the scholie.
Next, Thomas' performance against MU wasn't as good as you imply:
1. Thomas scored 11 points against us, not 13.
2. The 11 points came on just 4 of 13 shooting.
3. 9 of his 11 points were on 3 point shots, where the "Marquette defense" you cite was ranked #254th nationally.
Finally, you have twisted reasonable comments into "pessimism". This is s a good example of what you twist into "piling on":
I don't think Sultan has said anything untoward here.
Still, Sultan correctly points out that we shouldn't get excited to the point we're expecting many on-court contributions from the kid. In his three games last year against what most of us would consider "major" programs (MU, UW, Nebraska), Jake shot 9-for-37 overall and 7-for-26 from beyond the arc. The year before, against Texas Tech, MU, Oregon St. and K-State, he was 8-for-34 overall and 1-for-17 from beyond the arc.
None of us have a clue at this point of how or whether he'll have an impact, especially since he'll have an extra year to adjust to the higher level of competition. But given how he's shown against better teams so far, it's completely reasonable to have low expectations and shouldn't be taken as an insult to the kid.
Pakuni and I may not see eye to eye on many things, but he's spot on here--as he said, it is completely reasonable to have low expectations at this point and shouldn't be taken as an insult to the kid.
I hope he does well and will be pleasantly surprised if he does--but I don't expect him to play much more than Frozena unless Wilson and Taylor are busts.
-
Baxter's comments don't sound much different than Wes Matthews comments on Singleton last year. And by the time he left, many here piled on Singleton as just an ordinary walk-on who wouldn't have played much anyway.
I hope he does well and will be pleasantly surprised if he does--but I don't expect him to play much more than Frozena unless Wilson and Taylor are busts.
Well - Once again you'll be wrong 84. Thomas aint Frozena and it isn't even close. Thomas can be every bit the player Scott Christopherson has evolved into - more range, more height, and a better athlete than Christopherson. Granted, Christopherson saw he'd be outclassed at MU with DJO and Buycks coming in, and decided to transfer to a bottom of the barrel high major school so he could get some PT. Thomas may not play 20+ minutes ever in his MU career, but I'd be very surprised if he didn't see 10-15 minutes per game during his time here.
Lastly, we never got to see what Singleton could do on the floor - so we really don't know what he'd have been. The nice thing under Buzz is that we are getting WALK ON D-1 players at MU now, as opposed to handing out hope and prayer scholarships to guys like Niv Berkowitz, Kevin Menard, Trend Blackeledge, etc.
-
http://www.usdcoyotes.com/sports/mbball/bio.asp?PLAYER_ID=2987
I didn't react the same way after seeing David Singleton at the Pro-Am last year.
Above is Jake Thomas' bio. He averaged over 13 points in his two year career in a Division 1 conference and was an honorable mention all-conference choice last year.
Some kids are ballplayers and it's not a knock on who Buzz has recruited. Jake Thomas is better than some people believe and there are high major programs who have started walk-ons in the past and Clayton Hanson comes to mind. Gave up a scholarship to follow Bo Ryan to Wisconsin.
-
Well - Once again you'll be wrong 84. Thomas aint Frozena and it isn't even close. Thomas can be every bit the player Scott Christopherson has evolved into - more range, more height, and a better athlete than Christopherson. Granted, Christopherson saw he'd be outclassed at MU with DJO and Buycks coming in, and decided to transfer to a bottom of the barrel high major school so he could get some PT. Thomas may not play 20+ minutes ever in his MU career, but I'd be very surprised if he didn't see 10-15 minutes per game during his time here.
Good lord. C'mon... You are talking *ONE* game in a summer tournament. Check out his stats. Not a great shooter against top level D1 defenses. He will never come close to 10-15 mpg at MU. He won't even get half that.
Yes, he is "free" in that we don't need to use a scholarship. And that's great. But let's not turn him into something he's not.
-
http://www.usdcoyotes.com/sports/mbball/bio.asp?PLAYER_ID=2987
Yeah, that 36.7 FG% and 34.7% from 3 is real impressive.
-
Good lord. C'mon... You are talking *ONE* game in a summer tournament. Check out his stats. Not a great shooter against top level D1 defenses. He will never come close to 10-15 mpg at MU. He won't even get half that.
Yes, he is "free" in that we don't need to use a scholarship. And that's great. But let's not turn him into something he's not.
He may fill a need in the roster. I don't base that off of *ONE* game. I base it off his two years of play. UW is full of players of his talent level. Only time will tell, but to write him off as never being able to play for MU doesn't seem fair to me. I think there is a chance he becomes a role player that MU needs.
-
I don't know what he'll do on the court, but Thomas will definitely help in 2011-12. No, not a typo. You can see he's a hard worker who has a great motor. Even if he never delivers on the court, he'll be a great practice player who forces guys like Junior and Blue to work harder to get better.
I have no doubt Thomas will help us, even if it's just between gamedays.
-
Good lord. C'mon... You are talking *ONE* game in a summer tournament. Check out his stats. Not a great shooter against top level D1 defenses. He will never come close to 10-15 mpg at MU. He won't even get half that.
Yes, he is "free" in that we don't need to use a scholarship. And that's great. But let's not turn him into something he's not.
I know you aren't bullish on his chances Sultan...we'll just have to agree to disagree. The kid can shoot the ball, and will only become a better shooter. His ability to stretch the defense to 25 feet will create huge driving opportunities for MU's switchables. He'll be a nice option to have off the bench to change things up, be a zone buster etc. If you read almost every report from people at the ProAm - Thomas really stood out. And yes, I realize it is only 1 game and the ProAm...but Thomas probably is far and away the best pure shooter on the MU roster - if you put the whole team in a 3 point shooting contest...
-
Yeah, that 36.7 FG% and 34.7% from 3 is real impressive.
Is 42.1 FG% and 44.1% from 3 impressive?
-
if you put the whole team in a 3 point shooting contest...
...he'd have a lot of competition. Jones nailed at least 5 threes, and I only saw half
his game. He can shoot. Jamil also hit a number of threes, and Gardner hit at least 2. We also know DJO and Crowder can shoot from deep.
Thomas has a great stroke and did hit one set three from Novak vs UConn distance (really don't think I'm exaggerating that either) but regardless, we look like we'll have a lot more deep options the next couple years than we might have thought.
-
Is 42.1 FG% and 44.1% from 3 impressive?
It's more impressive.
-
Ners....let's remember that you get a little excited about our walk-ons. From last year...
"Seriously. I saw some clips of Singleton, and he looked pretty darn good to me - especially considering he will be walk on status. I doubt he came to MU to ride the bench for the rest of his college career..when he was a starter as a freshman at High Point.."
And now he's gone...
-
It's more impressive.
Those are his freshman year stats. Based on 285 total shots, 202 from 3. More than 2/3 of his shots at North Dakota were from 3.
I don't believe anyone, Ted Baxter included, believe he will be the star, stud or key player. Most have said, such as Ted, that he will contribute or help in 2012/2013.
As Ners stated, many people here have been clamoring for a similar type of player. Spot up 3 shooter. With the players we have that get to the hoop at will, he will have value.
-
Ners....let's remember that you get a little excited about our walk-ons. From last year...
"Seriously. I saw some clips of Singleton, and he looked pretty darn good to me - especially considering he will be walk on status. I doubt he came to MU to ride the bench for the rest of his college career..when he was a starter as a freshman at High Point.."
And now he's gone...
Fair enough - but we never saw Singleton play for MU. I do trust that Wes Matthews has a decent feel for assessing talent..and he was impressed with Singleton. And we also know that from all inferences, Singleton is no longer at MU not due to his basketball talent, but for "other" reasons.
-
Ners....let's remember that you get a little excited about our walk-ons. From last year...
"Seriously. I saw some clips of Singleton, and he looked pretty darn good to me - especially considering he will be walk on status. I doubt he came to MU to ride the bench for the rest of his college career..when he was a starter as a freshman at High Point.."
And now he's gone...
Just because he's gone doesn't mean he wasn't good enough to play at MU.
-
And now he's gone...
Weak...
-
Weak...
How is that weak? Just pointed out that Ners got all excited about someone else of similar caliber last year. It's hard to take him seriously.
-
Singleton sucks.
Sure he made a couple buckets in a no defense summer league, but in organized ball he struggles to play even against extremely weak DI competition. The feel good fantasy some wanted of Singleton being good and scholarship worthy just isn't true as our coaches and most somewhat objective observers saw.
-
How is that weak? Just pointed out that Ners got all excited about someone else of similar caliber last year. It's hard to take him seriously.
WesMat said that he was the most excited about Singleton after last year's ProAm. Is it hard to take WesMat seriously?
-
Well - Once again you'll be wrong 84. Thomas aint Frozena and it isn't even close. Thomas can be every bit the player Scott Christopherson has evolved into - more range, more height, and a better athlete than Christopherson. Granted, Christopherson saw he'd be outclassed at MU with DJO and Buycks coming in, and decided to transfer to a bottom of the barrel high major school so he could get some PT. Thomas may not play 20+ minutes ever in his MU career, but I'd be very surprised if he didn't see 10-15 minutes per game during his time here.
I would be very surprised if Thomas sees even 10-15 minutes/year in Big East games during his time here. He's not going to beat out Cadougan in 2013, and I cannot believe that he'll get minutes ahead of TJ Thomas or Derrick Wilson in 2013 or 2014. And thats assuming that Buzz strikes out on landing a top 50 PG like a James or a Diener in each of the next two classes.
The only chance Thomas gets 10-15 minutes/game is either a) Derrick Wilson and/or TJ Taylor are major-league busts or b) one of them is injured and the other is so out of shape that Buzz can't play him Acker-type minutes.
The nice thing under Buzz is that we are getting WALK ON D-1 players at MU now, as opposed to handing out hope and prayer scholarships to guys like Niv Berkowitz, Kevin Menard, Trend Blackeledge, etc.
Wow, there's a false comparison for you!
The flip response is that its too bad Buzz didn't use one of his available scholarships on a proven stud like Robert Jackson rather than wasting his recruiting time traipsing about trying to convince low major transfers from South Dakota and High Point to walk on at MU.
But more directly, your attempted slam on Crean notwithstanding, did you forget that Buzz handed out hope-and-a-prayer scholarships to guys like Yousopha Mbao and Brett Roseboro?
Unfortunately, you're wrong once again--we ARE still handing out such "hope-and-a-prayer" scholarships.
-
WesMat said that he was the most excited about Singleton after last year's ProAm. Is it hard to take WesMat seriously?
Ners record of overhype >>>>>>>>>>>>>> WesMat's
-
Anyone at the last game of the Saturday games?
Lot's of trash talking and the N word was flying. Buycks rebound dunk in that game was off the charts. Vander Blue, look much better with his jump shot. The other players was in his head.
-
Anyone at the last game of the Saturday games?
Lot's of trash talking and the N word was flying. Buycks rebound dunk in that game was off the charts. Vander Blue, look much better with his jump shot. The other players was in his head.
Were Marquette players involved in the trash talking?
-
Is jamil going to be ok for the season?
-
some talking from a few guys, not players in the bleachers, they appear to have known the players and got on Blue and Melo and also on a few other players. I know they were sitting in front of a few UWM players and they seemed to like Dwight. Especially one guy who was to fat to have played any sport but he did get under Blue's skin the most and then tried to with Melo. Nothing serious all about bragging rights.
-
How is that weak? Just pointed out that Ners got all excited about someone else of similar caliber last year. It's hard to take him seriously.
What's weak is making the assumption that Singleton is gone because he wasn't good enough to play a role on next years team. I doubt anyone know how much Singleton would have played next year, including Buzz, because it would have been so depenedent on many other players/outcomes, but there are plenty of players that have left MU knowing they could have had big minutes here. Singleton leaving MU, especially with the rumors flying, doesn't seem to show any evidence that he couldn't benefit the team next year.
-
some talking from a few guys, not players in the bleachers, they appear to have known the players and got on Blue and Melo and also on a few other players. I know they were sitting in front of a few UWM players and they seemed to like Dwight. Especially one guy who was to fat to have played any sport but he did get under Blue's skin the most and then tried to with Melo. Nothing serious all about bragging rights.
That fat guy is Dwight's boy. None of those guys in the front row/center court were UWM players.
-
I think Buzz not giving him a scholarship says all we need to know about Singleton's ability.
-
Is jamil going to be ok for the season?
I would think that he wouldn't play in the Pro Am if they were all that concerned.
-
Back from today's pro am. Jake thomas is a situational player for MU. He will play when we need outside shooting and then it will depend on how others are shooting. Essentially, if Mayo ,Wilson etc are hitting threes Thomas will not play. However, every player has off days and that will be Thomas's chance to make a difference.
One of the things about the pro-am is that fans tend to not watch full games as they move between games that are going on at the same time. I am a big Gradner fan, so I watched his whole game, which means I watched Anderson's whole game. Gardner and Anderson did the jump ball against each other. Gardner is taller, but not by much. I expected Anderson to beat Gardner on the jump ball, but Gardner easily beat him. Strike one against Anderson. The first quarter it seemed like everything Anderson tried to do went wrong. He was not much better the second quarter. However, the second half he seemed much more confortable and played fairly well. He is not strong enough to play in the Big East, so I expect his freshmen year to equate to Jones' freshmen year. Wilson also played in that game. He really impressed me and he will help this year. The transformation of Gardner's body is amazing. He is noticably quicker. I felt in the first quarter he was less effective offensively because he has not become acustom to playing quicker. However, as the game wore on he became more effective on the offensive end. He did a Jim Chones move. He faked one direction with the ball and then shot a jump turnaround the other direction and made it. The other thing that struck me about Gardner was his personality change. Last year he was so serious and quiet. This year he was out on the court laughing and looking like he was having fun. Both Vander and Jones look significantly stronger than last year. Howeveer, they were not good enough to beat the one man show (Buyckes). Except for the fact that he is stronger, Jones' game has not changed. He still prefers to chuck up threes and frankly(although he can go on streaks) he is not very good at shooting threes. Blue still cannot shoot and spent a lot of time bantering(swearing at) his buddies in the crowd who were razzing him. I watched part of Otule, Cadougan vs J. Wilson game. Just the way Wilson runs (glides) up court gives you the idea of how great he can be. He too shot a lot of threes. However, unlike Jones he can actually make them. Otule and Nankivil were on the same team. What struck me was how much bigger Otule was than Nankivil. I knew he was taller, but Otule's shoulders were immense compared to Nankivil, who just finish a career in the Big 10. I suspect that Otule has also added more muscle to his frame in the off season.
-
Back from today's pro am. Jake thomas is a situational player for MU. He will play when we need outside shooting and then it will depend on how others are shooting. Essentially, if Mayo ,Wilson etc are hitting threes Thomas will not play. However, every player has off days and that will be Thomas's chance to make a difference.
One of the things about the pro-am is that fans tend to not watch full games as they move between games that are going on at the same time. I am a big Gradner fan, so I watched his whole game, which means I watched Anderson's whole game. Gardner and Anderson did the jump ball against each other. Gardner is taller, but not by much. I expected Anderson to beat Gardner on the jump ball, but Gardner easily beat him. Strike one against Anderson. The first quarter it seemed like everything Anderson tried to do went wrong. He was not much better the second quarter. However, the second half he seemed much more confortable and played fairly well. He is not strong enough to play in the Big East, so I expect his freshmen year to equate to Jones' freshmen year. Wilson also played in that game. He really impressed me and he will help this year. The transformation of Gardner's body is amazing. He is noticably quicker. I felt in the first quarter he was less effective offensively because he has not become acustom to playing quicker. However, as the game wore on he became more effective on the offensive end. He did a Jim Chones move. He faked one direction with the ball and then shot a jump turnaround the other direction and made it. The other thing that struck me about Gardner was his personality change. Last year he was so serious and quiet. This year he was out on the court laughing and looking like he was having fun. Both Vander and Jones look significantly stronger than last year. Howeveer, they were not good enough to beat the one man show (Buyckes). Except for the fact that he is stronger, Jones' game has not changed. He still prefers to chuck up threes and frankly(although he can go on streaks) he is not very good at shooting threes. Blue still cannot shoot and spent a lot of time bantering(swearing at) his buddies in the crowd who were razzing him. I watched part of Otule, Cadougan vs J. Wilson game. Just the way Wilson runs (glides) up court gives you the idea of how great he can be. He too shot a lot of threes. However, unlike Jones he can actually make them. Otule and Nankivil were on the same team. What struck me was how much bigger Otule was than Nankivil. I knew he was taller, but Otule's shoulders were immense compared to Nankivil, who just finish a career in the Big 10. I suspect that Otule has also added more muscle to his frame in the off season.
Yesterday Jones was raining 3's. It's all about what kind of day you're having. I expect jamail to slowly learn to drive more this year if he wants to play but it seems like vander was getting on him yesterday for shooting too many 3s. Also, vanders shot was going down a lot more - but it's still ugly.
-
I think Buzz not giving him a scholarship says all we need to know about Singleton's ability.
and you know for a fact that he wasn't offered a scholarship based upon the fact that Buzz didn't think he could help the team....and you're saying the same is true for jake
-
Yesterday Jones was raining 3's. It's all about what kind of day you're having. I expect jamail to slowly learn to drive more this year if he wants to play but it seems like vander was getting on him yesterday for shooting too many 3s. Also, vanders shot was going down a lot more - but it's still ugly.
+1
Jones was unconscious from 3 on Friday. For awhile, it seemed like their entire gameplan was to have Vander take it up the court, find Jones, make a three. And it was working. Jones can shoot, maybe he was off today, but he'll have a chance to make an impact in 2011-12. Especially with that physique he's sporting now.
-
and you know for a fact that he wasn't offered a scholarship based upon the fact that Buzz didn't think he could help the team....and you're saying the same is true for jake
That seems the most logical reason in my book.
-
Question to BrewCity (in particular)....
What do you think about DJO and Jae for the NBA???
We were both spot on Jimmy for going NBA before the mocks, so I wonder if we are on the same page with the two star seniors this year.
I don't see it. They both have the potential IMO...but a steep hill. Jamil Wilson by measurables looks to have the next best chance. As crazy as it sounds.....Otule also has a chance. He really isn't that skilled, but very solid center size. Still not great at rebounding, but a dangerous shotblocker now.......and his x-factor........I LOVE IT......the mathematician. I don't know if he is still in engineering, but the mere fact he went into it means he has some serious intelligence. I thought the intelligence would manifest into all of the intricacies of basketball, but footwork can be really difficult when you are the biggest of bigs. How much can intelligence get you in sports? Otule could very well have an uncomparable size/athleticism/intelligence ratio. At the least it is very impressive. The scary thing is that Gardner is probably frustrating the hell out of him.......
Time to stop whining about "why MU can't get bigs"...........I think Buzz found some dudes that Big East teams are not looking forward to seeing!
-
I disagree with bilsu's thought that Juan Anderson's minutes will be similar to Jamail Jones from last year.
With Crowder and Jamil Wilson logically starting at forward, both Jamail and Juan are going to have to play some minutes this year and they bring different things to the game. Juan Anderson can defend and he's quick to the ball, so in certain games, they are going to need his defense and ability to get to rebounds and loose balls even though he needs to add strength. Juan's near 6-8 height will help him overcome some of his weight issue's. Jamail may be a little stronger than Juan right now and he has a better perimeter shot, so he'll have his place in games as well.
I see a 9-10 man rotation depending on matchups with Otule, Gardner, J. Wilson, Crowder, Jones, Anderson, Johnson-Odom, Cadougan, Blue and Mayo being the rotation. I see Derrick Wilson getting some minutes against the lower level teams as the 5th guard this year.
-
Ted, I would like to agree with you, but I think of the ten you mentioned, Mayo and Juan will get just a handful. I think Buzz is more likey to go small with Jamail coming in for Jamil or Jae.
How has DWilson looked so far?
-
Ted, I would like to agree with you, but I think of the ten you mentioned, Mayo and Juan will get just a handful. I think Buzz is more likey to go small with Jamail coming in for Jamil or Jae.
How has DWilson looked so far?
I was really impressed with D. Wilson. The pro am is interesting, because it matches up younger less physically strong players against older stronger players. Without knowing who the players are Wilson looks like one of the older guys. He is very strong. He is built like Cadougan, makes good decision and hit some outside shots. The only downside I see is that he same type of player as Cadougan. It would have been nice to still have Reggie Smith on this team. I would think having different types of point guards for the opposing team to have to prepare for would be an advantage. However, having said that, I am now quite comfortable with Wilson handling the backup point guard role.
-
+1
Jones was unconscious from 3 on Friday. For awhile, it seemed like their entire gameplan was to have Vander take it up the court, find Jones, make a three. And it was working. Jones can shoot, maybe he was off today, but he'll have a chance to make an impact in 2011-12. Especially with that physique he's sporting now.
The thing about Jones is that he is a streak shooter. Streak shooters will rarely get enough shots on an MU team to get going. Once Buzz puts the reigns on the players the consistant players fare well. The volume shooters do not. Look at Buyckes, he is unstopplable when there is no coach to slow him down. Put him in a structured offense that does not let him shoot freely and he goes from a 40 point a game scorer to an 8 point game scorer. While defense has something to do with it, it is more not being the focus of the offense that stopped Buyckes. It would have been interesting to see how Buyckes would of done, if he could have played on a team like Providence last year.
-
The one thing about Jones, he needs to man up and get the rebounds. Only the 5 toughest guys will play for Buzz.
-
The "thing" about this thread vs. last summer, we are not debating who the starting five will be....but who will earn the back-up PT. That's a good thing.
Thanks to all the guys (Brew, Panther, Ted, Bilsu, Wegs, et al) for the recaps...
-
The thing about Jones is that he is a streak shooter. Streak shooters will rarely get enough shots on an MU team to get going. Once Buzz puts the reigns on the players the consistant players fare well. The volume shooters do not. Look at Buyckes, he is unstopplable when there is no coach to slow him down. Put him in a structured offense that does not let him shoot freely and he goes from a 40 point a game scorer to an 8 point game scorer. While defense has something to do with it, it is more not being the focus of the offense that stopped Buyckes. It would have been interesting to see how Buyckes would of done, if he could have played on a team like Providence last year.
I'm confused...I thought Buzz was the coach responsible for taking the reigns off other players and letting them blossom? ;)
-
I'm confused...I thought Buzz was the coach responsible for taking the reigns off other players and letting them blossom? ;)
Buzz does not run restricted plays like Crean. The players are free to take shots within the offense that emphasises getting paint touches. Jones is not going to be able to come down court and throw up three pointers whenever he wants. He needs to play defense and rebound or he will not get significant playing time.
-
I have some hope that Crowder can start at the 4 this year, but as the game progresses, and we get into the final 10 minutes or so that Buzz will have the option to play Gardner and Otule at the same time. In a couple games last year our inability to rebound late in the game was an issue. Otule was a game changer on the deffensive end last year with his shot blocking ability, and being able to throw it into a big man like Gardner who can finish and hit free throws is a big deal late in games. If Gardner can hit his mid-range jumper he'll open up the lane as well. I think the development of those two is huge, and my only worry is that Buzz hasn't brought in another big to develop behind them.
-
Question to BrewCity (in particular)....
What do you think about DJO and Jae for the NBA???
DJO in my opinion is absolutely an NBA player. I'm a Bulls fan, and ever since his sophomore year, DJO has reminded me of Ben Gordon. He's undersized for the two, but is an excellent outside shooter and driver. Just as important, he is a physical specimen. Already has an NBA body. I don't know that he'll ever be a starter, but I think he become one of the best sixth men in the league. Next year's draft won't help him, simply because all the guys who didn't go early-entry this year will push people down, but I think he will definitely be drafted, and out of Hayward, Butler, and DJO, I like DJO's chances best of being an impact player (even if that's a 20 mpg bench guy averaging 12 ppg).
Jae...much tougher to say. He's a hard worker and he is willing to play a role. He can shoot outside, but despite playing the four at Marquette, doesn't really d up the four or have the kind of interior muscle that Lazar had. I haven't seen Jae since last year, but he needs to get more muscle and definition. You look at our past three NBA guys, Wes, Lazar, and Jimmy, they all looked like they were NBA-ready. Strong, defined, they looked the part (like DJO). Crowder isn't there yet, or at least he wasn't as of March. Right now I don't think he gets drafted, but I think he'll get invited to a camp and probably get a chance through the D-League. I could see him getting a few cups of coffee in the NBA, but I'm not sure he's ever a major role player at that level.
-
Jae doesn't really d up the four or have the kind of interior muscle that Lazar had. ?????????????
Are we talking about the same Jae?
Agree on the defense on the 4, but JC certainly has the muscle---especially when compared to Zar.
-
I think you are mixing up bulk with muscle. While I think brewcity is being a little harsh, I think Crowder needs more definition to his frame than what he had last year. My guess is that after working out this spring, he will look different than he did last year.
-
I think you are mixing up bulk with muscle. While I think brewcity is being a little harsh, I think Crowder needs more definition to his frame than what he had last year. My guess is that after working out this spring, he will look different than he did last year.
I think a big difference is the length of Zar's arms. From what I remember he was able to play much taller then he is because he was so strong (keeping taller guys out of the paint) and his arms are so long.
-
I have some hope that Crowder can start at the 4 this year, but as the game progresses, and we get into the final 10 minutes or so that Buzz will have the option to play Gardner and Otule at the same time. In a couple games last year our inability to rebound late in the game was an issue. Otule was a game changer on the deffensive end last year with his shot blocking ability, and being able to throw it into a big man like Gardner who can finish and hit free throws is a big deal late in games. If Gardner can hit his mid-range jumper he'll open up the lane as well. I think the development of those two is huge, and my only worry is that Buzz hasn't brought in another big to develop behind them.
My way to early guess, is you could see a lot of offensive for defensive subbing late in game with Otule coming in on the defensive side and Gardner on the offensive.
-
I disagree with bilsu's thought that Juan Anderson's minutes will be similar to Jamail Jones from last year.
With Crowder and Jamil Wilson logically starting at forward, both Jamail and Juan are going to have to play some minutes this year and they bring different things to the game. Juan Anderson can defend and he's quick to the ball, so in certain games, they are going to need his defense and ability to get to rebounds and loose balls even though he needs to add strength. Juan's near 6-8 height will help him overcome some of his weight issue's. Jamail may be a little stronger than Juan right now and he has a better perimeter shot, so he'll have his place in games as well.
I see a 9-10 man rotation depending on matchups with Otule, Gardner, J. Wilson, Crowder, Jones, Anderson, Johnson-Odom, Cadougan, Blue and Mayo being the rotation. I see Derrick Wilson getting some minutes against the lower level teams as the 5th guard this year.
I'm not sure about how much time JA will get, mostly because of the bolded sentence. Unless looks are deceiving, Jamail isn't a little stronger, he's a lot stronger. I can't emphasize how much muscle he added in the offseason. He's wider in the shoulders than Davante Gardner is right now. Not sure where his technique will be defensively, and frankly I don't think the MPA is a great place to analyze that for most players, but there aren't many guys that will be able to push Jones around.
I love Anderson. I'm very, very high on him. But as a freshman, I just don't think he'll be ready for the jump to Big East play. Right now, forwards would toss him around. Give him a year of acclimating and strength-building and I think he could be special, when you look at his athleticism and feel for the game he seems like the kind of kid that could be a flat-out star. But right now he's a little too fancy and not strong enough to really get many minutes. Of our three freshman, while I expect JA to be the most prolific by the time he leaves, I think he'll give us the fewest minutes this year.
I can't stress enough that as much as everyone is talking about Gardner's physical changes, Jamail Jones' physical changes are just as stark. One thing a lot of guys have talked about with our players is having the "NBA body". Well, Jones now has it. He'll have to prove it on the court, but he certainly looks the part.
-
And regarding Jae, what Sultan said I would consider very accurate. It's not that Jae doesn't have strength, it's that he didn't have the cut physique that you see on guys that make it in the league. When you get to that level, it isn't enough to shoot, or to be athletic, or just be a good basketball player, you need to have the body for it. Minimize body fat so you are as quick as you can possibly be, maximize strength because everyone else has just as much or more.
Jae can get there, and having not seen him this offseason, may very well already be there, but last year he had more bulk than he did muscle. Though more than anything, improving his defense is what he needs to get to that next level. But getting drafted next year will be tough. That draft is looking like the best one since 2003.
-
I don't know if this has been asked or talked about before, but how did Vander get 30.5 pts. per game for the 2 Pro-
Am games so far? Is he getting a ton of layups? I'd settle for a third of that during the season.
-
I don't know if this has been asked or talked about before, but how did Vander get 30.5 pts. per game for the 2 Pro-
Am games so far? Is he getting a ton of layups? I'd settle for a third of that during the season.
No joke. I'd care a lot less about his jump-shot form if he could consistently get to the hoop. Hopefully he got a little stronger and got a little bit of confidence :)
-
Wish DJO was playing in the Milwaukee Pro Am. This from twitter:
@rodgerbohn: Darius Johnson-Odom from Marquette putting on a show during warmups here @ncproam
-
I'd rather have him play down there. Do you see the players he is playing against? (Although I don't see him on any roster. Alternate?)
-
30.5 points for Vander does not mean much. I am pretty sure he averaged close to that last year in pro am. Vander is physically stronger than he was last year at this time. Other than that his game has not shown as much improvement as the other returning MU players.
-
Will there be videos put together this year like there was last session?
-
I'd rather have him play down there. Do you see the players he is playing against? (Although I don't see him on any roster. Alternate?)
Oops, looks like I noticed the same thing a little late, and in a different thread :P
-
30.5 points for Vander does not mean much. I am pretty sure he averaged close to that last year in pro am. Vander is physically stronger than he was last year at this time. Other than that his game has not shown as much improvement as the other returning MU players.
Disappointing but not surprising.
-
I don't know if this has been asked or talked about before, but how did Vander get 30.5 pts. per game for the 2 Pro-
Am games so far? Is he getting a ton of layups? I'd settle for a third of that during the season.
The number of blind, put-my-head-down-and-pray drives that ended in turnovers from Vander on Saturday would ignite a firestorm on this board if they showed up in a Big East game.
-
Disappointing but not surprising.
Just like all of your "contributions" to this message board. What were your stats when u played D-1 basketball at a Big East school? Wait..let me guess..you never played ball at the D-1 level but are qualified to make disparaging remarks about a kids progress at MU? Now that's how I define a hater. Hate on Hoopaloser.
-
Just like all of your "contributions" to this message board. What were your stats when u played D-1 basketball at a Big East school? Wait..let me guess..you never played ball at the D-1 level but are qualified to make disparaging remarks about a kids progress at MU? Now that's how I define a hater. Hate on Hoopaloser.
Good lord Ners....
-
Just like all of your "contributions" to this message board. What were your stats when u played D-1 basketball at a Big East school? Wait..let me guess..you never played ball at the D-1 level but are qualified to make disparaging remarks about a kids progress at MU? Now that's how I define a hater. Hate on Hoopaloser.
Ners, we're trying to get rid of the trash before the season starts, so beware the itchy ban finger. This will be your last warning for name calling.
-
Ners, we're trying to get rid of the trash before the season starts, so beware the itchy ban finger. This will be your last warning for name calling.
I feel like this post deserves the same gifs I posted before.
-
Hate on Hoopaloser.
That is straight out of the old 6th grade trash talk playbook. I honestly agree with most of the things you say but your delivery really makes me question if you aren't 13....
-
Ners, we're trying to get rid of the trash before the season starts, so beware the itchy ban finger. This will be your last warning for name calling.
All due respect...speaking the truth about another poster, or should I say, poser - shouldn't be referred to as name calling or perceived as a negative. Essentially we have posters here who call out kids, coaches, admin, DPS, JUCO backgrounds, shooting form and every thing else under the sun - but then me calling out an anonymous poster here a "name" I should get banned?? Hell at least most of us have privacy here unless some are psycho enough to get IP address traces etc (which we know one super poster resorts to) to determine identity...yet fans here are allowed to take continual potshots at our players, coaches, admins etc BY NAME??
I don't know Hoopaloop from Adam...but the fact I called him a hater/loser makes me a bad guy here when the dude has about 43 posts of negativity toward MU?? I guess I'll never get it...censor someone who has great pride and appreciation for Marquette, yet give a platform to posters (so long as they don't call someone a name) they can continue to disparage most all things MU does/doesn't do?? Make me want to choke and pee myself...just like last years Sweet 16 team.
-
All he said was "disappointing but not surprising."
I went back and re-read all of his posts (not many of them) and he has hardly been one to rag on our players constantly. In fact that one post is probably the most negative thing he has said about the basketball team.
You need to stop being the righteous defender of MU basketball. They are big boys, they can take care of themselves.
-
Let me also add, that I don't think this board should be some "cheerleading" board for MU basketball. I like healthy discussion. I like the debate that generally goes on here. And frankly, that is why I am a little disappointed that the mods gave Chicos a "lifetime" ban. Yeah, he's obnoxious and frankly I doubt I would spend two seconds with him if I ever met him outside of here.
However, I liked the iconoclastic thoughts he brought to this group. Then again, I am used to the old unmoderated days of usenet and rec.sport.basketball.college where pretty much anyone could say anything they wanted...and if you didn't like it, you ignored them.
But it also isn't my board to moderate.
-
I, for one, am looking forward to Chicos resurfacing. WTF, life's too short to stick one's dick out over such petty smack.
-
Let me also add, that I don't think this board should be some "cheerleading" board for MU basketball. I like healthy discussion. I like the debate that generally goes on here. And frankly, that is why I am a little disappointed that the mods gave Chicos a "lifetime" ban. Yeah, he's obnoxious and frankly I doubt I would spend two seconds with him if I ever met him outside of here.
However, I liked the iconoclastic thoughts he brought to this group. Then again, I am used to the old unmoderated days of usenet and rec.sport.basketball.college where pretty much anyone could say anything they wanted...and if you didn't like it, you ignored them.
But it also isn't my board to moderate.
Wait a minute, did I miss a memo? Chicos is banned? For life? WTF for? Say it ain't so, Joe. If so, then I'm outta here. For life.
-
I really think we should not ban people. However, people should be aware ot their attitudes when they post. Also, I do not think people should pretend to be an MU fan, if they are not one. I rarely post on UW site, but I follow two rules when I do. I always start out saying I am an MU fan and I try to only post what I believe are positive comments (they are not always taken that way, probably because I have already told them I am an MU fan). They are free to rip MU on their site as we are free to rip UW on our site. However, I have no respect for anyone of us going over there to rip them or any of them coming here to rip us. I find at times people misunderstand my posts, because they do not understand what I was thinking when I posted my comment. Misunderstanings often occur when a poster is trying to be sarcastic. Sometimes the sarcasism is understood between posters who are friends, but I basically do not know who you are and would not know you are being your usual sarcastic self. Sarcasim should be avoided. I have never used the ignore button and I rarely looked at posters names.
-
Enough about bans and cr@ppy attitudes. How'd the guys look this weekend? Who impressed, who didn't besides Vander (apparently for reasons stated above)?
-
You need to stop being the righteous defender of MU basketball. They are big boys, they can take care of themselves.
+1
Regardless, Ners, you can't hope to fight every battle.
-
How'd the guys look this weekend? Who impressed, who didn't besides Vander (apparently for reasons stated above)?
This is something I'd be interested in as well.
-
Enough about bans and cr@ppy attitudes. How'd the guys look this weekend? Who impressed, who didn't besides Vander (apparently for reasons stated above)?
I liked what I saw from Junior, O'tule, and the Wilsons. Junior was aggressive and assertive on both ends of the court and looked like he was the best player out there...definitely a leader. O'tule looks like he will be a beast on the defensive end. He appears to be in better shape and can see some more extended time on the court. Jamil Wilson is an athlete but still may be a year away from making any significant impact.
-
Jamil Wilson is an athlete but still may be a year away from making any significant impact.
Not what I hoped I'd hear. Is he still hampered by a foot problem? What gave you the feeling he might not be ready this year?
-
Will there be Pro-Am games the weekend of July 29th-30th? I plan on being in Milwaukee for my Alumni Reunion, would be sweet if there some games to catch.
-
yep
http://www.milwaukeeproam.com/2011_Schedule.html
-
Jamil Wilson is an athlete but still may be a year away from making any significant impact.
Not saying you are wrong, but that runs counter to pretty much everything I have read on the Scout board about Jamil from this past weekend. The words "might be best all-around player on this team" were used.
Also, the reports were pretty down on Jones - hung outside the three point line pretty much all night. One report said that 95% of his shots were threes...
-
Also, the reports were pretty down on Jones - hung outside the three point line pretty much all night. One report said that 95% of his shots were threes...
This concerns me too. When I watched him in high school I thought he could be an inside/outside player (remember the ESPN highlight tip dunk?). At MU he's been content to hang out at the 3 point line, negating his strength and jumping ability.
-
This concerns me too. When I watched him in high school I thought he could be an inside/outside player (remember the ESPN highlight tip dunk?). At MU he's been content to hang out at the 3 point line, negating his strength and jumping ability.
Actually, he was attacking the hoop in the last few times he played in the 2010-2011 regular season and had a couple rally nice drives and O-rebounds. Guess he is reverting in the Pro-Am.
-
these games are not a real read on a player, I was sitting next to another d1 player and stated several times, Vander would dribble head down get double teamed and not pass out unless he could not shoot. Now u know why players are just shooting it when then touch the ball.
-
Jamil looked a little hampered by the foot, which i think made him float around the 3 pt line probably more then he normally would. That being said he oozes athleticism and I actually think he will be a key cog on the team this year on both offense and defense he's to good not to.
Junior can get to the lane at will, I just love his game and if you go back and look I was raving about him after last years pro-am obviously he didn't really come into his own until later in the year but i expect big things out of him this year.
Otule looks the part this year you can tell he put in work in the weight room but it doesn't seem like his offensive skills have developed all that much but his defense is what will keep him on the floor and I think he knows that.
Juan Anderson will be a stud by the time he leaves Marquette.
-
Not saying you are wrong, but that runs counter to pretty much everything I have read on the Scout board about Jamil from this past weekend. The words "might be best all-around player on this team" were used.
I said early on that Butler would be a pro. Wilson has more talent than Butler. However, talent does not guarantee success, but I am expecting him to be the most exciting player on this year's team.
-
Wish there was more reporting on the players in the pro-am. It seems that we've had a dry spell in recruiting and players news this year. Apparently there's just not much happening period.
-
Wish there was more reporting on the players in the pro-am. It seems that we've had a dry spell in recruiting and players news this year. Apparently there's just not much happening period.
It was the same last summer. Buzz plays it closer to the vest than our previous coach.
-
It was the same last summer. Buzz plays it closer to the vest than our previous coach.
This line always has seemed to me like someone wrote it three years ago and people just regurgitate it without thought.
-
Jamil looked a little hampered by the foot, which i think made him float around the 3 pt line probably more then he normally would. That being said he oozes athleticism and I actually think he will be a key cog on the team this year on both offense and defense he's to good not to.
Take out the foot part, and it's the same thing I saw out of him last summer. I've never seen a "soft" player play for Buzz...I hope he isn't the first because I don't think he'll be playing much. If he ever looks anything like Butler going to the hoop, grabbing boards, or defending different positions his athleticism should allow him to be a heck of a player.
-
This line always has seemed to me like someone wrote it three years ago and people just regurgitate it without thought.
Buzz plays everything closer to the vest than TC did with his media hype machine. I'm not sure how you can't see that. Maybe you weren't following the program as closely back then?
-
It was the same last summer. Buzz plays it closer to the vest than our previous coach.
Not exactly true