http://www.jsonline.com/sports/goldeneagles/124927089.html
This is why you don't dig your heels in and fight the media on this, because they control the agenda, they have the barrells of ink, they have the radio and television waves. MU will have to continue to endure these articles for awhile, but this is a much better result then defending the ridiculous policy the school had for 10 years. We dug our own hole, now we need to squat in it for awhile.
+1 to whomever said the press conference yesterday with Buzz was a really stupid idea. This article brings that point home in bright lights.
This is fodder for the axe to grind crowd and a failing grade on PR for the school. What gets me are the assumptions of guilty. The school, the MPD and D.A. all say there was no crime. The alleged victim could have helped that process with timely reporting. It seems she's more willing to go to a newspaper than all the authorities. As a reporter I always asks myself why is someone talking to me -- what do they want to achieve -- what is there goal?
My wife works in compliance with a college and has for a decade. She is not a basketball fan and knew nothing about the controversy. I asked her about releasing student names. She said the FERPA laws (Family Educational Rights and Privacy Act) would make that illegal. Badger fans have disagreed with that and I know they don't have an axe to grind either and I know there is no anti-Catholic bias out there.
I've always felt in journalism there was more laziness than malice. So it's a slow holiday weekend and I need a quick easy column. At this point that is the real JS story. That and a lesson in modern media feeding.
I seldom read Hunt, I think he really says nothing of substance when he reports. Unfortunately, others do read the pablum he publishes.
I did, though, read his two columns on the subject. He must have been tight for time, as this was nearly identical to the last. Really lazy journalism to not add anything new to the topic. Rehash of his other piece.
Still, bad publicity again. Neither of these columns would have been written without Cottingham's resignation.
Meh. Nothing new. Space filler. Same hit, different day.
Mr Hunt has become his own troll.
Quote from: Tulsa Warrior on July 03, 2011, 06:13:35 AM
This is fodder for the axe to grind crowd and a failing grade on PR for the school. What gets me are the assumptions of guilty. The school, the MPD and D.A. all say there was no crime. The alleged victim could have helped that process with timely reporting. It seems she's more willing to go to a newspaper than all the authorities. As a reporter I always asks myself why is someone talking to me -- what do they want to achieve -- what is there goal?
+1000. Everyone who has heard both sides of this story says no crime, but for the MU haters (including those here) that will never be enough. Their preferred narrative (it's Marquette, we want them to be guilty sooo bad it must be so) is pushed by a lazy and sometimes politically motivated press (see Duke lacrosse, for example). Sad, but totally predictable.
Quote from: tower912 on July 03, 2011, 08:48:26 AM
Meh. Nothing new. Space filler. Same hit, different day.
Yeah, that's about it. Piling on because he knows MU can't do anything more.
The problem with Hunt and the JS is they won't print names until someone goes public. Period, At this point the news is "who" and if the JS knows who is involved, their libel lawyers won't let them name names.
The column was designed to get Marquette or MPD to be shamed enouigh that they name names. That takes the accountability off the JS and alleviates the potential libel case. Until then, garbage like Hunt's will be all over the place.
Perhaps it is possible the JS doesn't know which players are involved. They're lazy enough that not knowing is a realistic possibility.
On the JS comment section the newspaper's attorneys are earning their pay. That said a few posts that were libel got through their first line of defense and remained up for awhile. They named, names and the JS attorneys know that opened up the newspaper to a massive lawsuit. The game is to push the story up to but not crossing a legal line that would put the paper is a costly situation.
We have a perfect storm this holiday weekend. There's a lack of real news and a journalist who wants to crack a story and get time off. You want to do a column that advances the story line? Talk with school officials and attorneys that specialize in FERPA law and privacy issues. But that would take picking up a telephone. People can disagree on privacy laws and that's OK. At least we can see a level of effort from a journalist who would do a story like that.
The only problem I had with the article is it made it sound like only athletic sexual assualts were not reported to the police. The way I understand it (and I could be wrong) is that MU was not reporting any sexual assaults. The article makes it sound like MU not reporting was due to protecting their athletes. Either way MU screwed up, but the article implies it was done solely to protect basketball versus being an incorrect overall univeristy policy.
The only part of that article I found particularly bad was the notion that Marquette should be giving out more information about these allegations. They have already said all they can, and should. But for a reporter to insinuate that MU has an obligation to report more than is legal is pathetic.
One part of the lack of information I DO like, however, is that it keeps the focus on MU's behavior. If names were released, this would become about the individual players involved, etc. As sad as whatever occurred actually was, the greater problem here is MU's institutional failures. In regards to those failures, MU deserves all the negative press it gets.
Quote from: MUBurrow on July 03, 2011, 12:09:27 PM
The only part of that article I found particularly bad was the notion that Marquette should be giving out more information about these allegations. They have already said all they can, and should. But for a reporter to insinuate that MU has an obligation to report more than is legal is pathetic.
One part of the lack of information I DO like, however, is that it keeps the focus on MU's behavior. If names were released, this would become about the individual players involved, etc. As sad as whatever occurred actually was, the greater problem here is MU's institutional failures. In regards to those failures, MU deserves all the negative press it gets.
My guess is he isn't talking about the names of the players involved, but the coaches. There were reprimands, enough people know who was reprimanded already but the school won't say who it is. Instead they have a press conference and then announce they can't say anything...beyond silly. Why have the press conference?
Anyone who is anyone knows who the players and coaches are, Hunt knows as well as the rest of the media, but there is this little game being played because no one will come out and say it for privacy \ legal reasons. Hunt is there tapping his keyboard while all this stuff is happening on the other side of a window knowing full well who is involved, but then he's out there saying "hmm, I wonder who is involved" to put the onus on MU.
MU is in a tough spot as a result. They can't name the players. They could name the coaches, but that means admitting what teams the players were on by stating who the coach is (as if this is something 99% of people already don't know). So instead they put the most high profile coach up for the media but when asked if he was reprimanded, he can't answer.
Has there been an institution short of the Iraqi War Minister in 2003 that has failed so miserably at Public Relations than Marquette University over the years?
They are kerosene to a fire.
No need to have a press conference. No need to name names.
They can all do that when ESPN releases a 30 for 30, ten to twenty years from now.
Quote from: Tulsa Warrior on July 03, 2011, 11:05:04 AM
On the JS comment section the newspaper's attorneys are earning their pay. That said a few posts that were libel got through their first line of defense and remained up for awhile. They named, names and the JS attorneys know that opened up the newspaper to a massive lawsuit. The game is to push the story up to but not crossing a legal line that would put the paper is a costly situation.
We have a perfect storm this holiday weekend. There's a lack of real news and a journalist who wants to crack a story and get time off. You want to do a column that advances the story line? Talk with school officials and attorneys that specialize in FERPA law and privacy issues. But that would take picking up a telephone. People can disagree on privacy laws and that's OK. At least we can see a level of effort from a journalist who would do a story like that.
Yeah, the comments are interesting. I'm sure the head in the sanders will say these are all Badger fans causing trouble, but deep down in their brains and hearts they know that isn't the case. MU really took a black eye on this one and it only feeds the dislike for MU by those in the community that needed one more reason. It has shaken others that were in the middle. Very unfortunate, but that's the perception for many and, in turn, the reality for many.
For the die-hards, this goes away in a few weeks and they pretend it never happened. For those that hate MU in the community, this stain stays around for decade plus just like those that hate Duke or whatever bring up their foibles. For those in the middle, that respected MU but didn't attend or were mildly interested, that is the group to keep your eye on.
I'd just like to see MU go through a 5 year period where we have our crap together enough to overcome some of this stuff. We just can't help ourselves with Avenue Commons, the nickname change (twice..in two different decades), having our President dragged through priest youth issues in Chicago, this stuff with student athletes, etc, etc. I know someone will say this happens "everywhere" you just don't see it. That may be true, though I don't believe it. For those of us here with multiple degrees we follow our other schools and MU slams the doors on their own fingers more than most institutions I can ever remember.
I'd like to see a wealthy donor not donate for a new building or new scholarships. How about funding a retainer for a real PR agency that can guide MU through troubled waters and not actually increase the severity of the storm every time they open their mouths.
I think it's great...Buzz is the Man!
it's a slow time in sports so they have to find something to write about, I'm sure this DB reporters are working all angles for more "scoop"...
let's not forget what happened with the Duke LaCrosse team...
Quote from: Tulsa Warrior on July 03, 2011, 06:13:35 AM
The school, the MPD and D.A. all say there was no crime.
With all due respect, this is NOT what the MPD and DA have said.
What the DA actually said was:
"An immediate and thorough police investigation of this incident might have yielded additional compelling evidence. Unfortunately, a police investigation undertaken even four weeks later was not able to produce corroborative evidence that would support a criminal prosecution."
http://media.jsonline.com/documents/Chisholm_Marquette_letter.pdf (http://media.jsonline.com/documents/Chisholm_Marquette_letter.pdf)
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on July 03, 2011, 01:01:46 PM
I'd like to see a wealthy donor not donate for a new building or new scholarships. How about funding a retainer for a real PR agency that can guide MU through troubled waters and not actually increase the severity of the storm every time they open their mouths.
It's not a PR issue...it is a decision making issue. Good PR can't make up for the fact that MU's decision making is often insular. Can't make a chicken sandwich out of chickensh*t.
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on July 03, 2011, 12:35:58 PM
My guess is he isn't talking about the names of the players involved, but the coaches. There were reprimands, enough people know who was reprimanded already but the school won't say who it is. Instead they have a press conference and then announce they can't say anything...beyond silly. Why have the press conference?
Anyone who is anyone knows who the players and coaches are, Hunt knows as well as the rest of the media, but there is this little game being played because no one will come out and say it for privacy \ legal reasons. Hunt is there tapping his keyboard while all this stuff is happening on the other side of a window knowing full well who is involved, but then he's out there saying "hmm, I wonder who is involved" to put the onus on MU.
MU is in a tough spot as a result. They can't name the players. They could name the coaches, but that means admitting what teams the players were on by stating who the coach is (as if this is something 99% of people already don't know). So instead they put the most high profile coach up for the media but when asked if he was reprimanded, he can't answer.
Has there been an institution short of the Iraqi War Minister in 2003 that has failed so miserably at Public Relations than Marquette University over the years?
They can't name the coaches either, since it is a personnel matter. That is, unless the coaches agree to it.
They are kerosene to a fire.
Hmmmmm, how many years ago was it disclosed that UW at Madison was about fifth in the big ten in sexual assaults reported to the Madison police..., but FIRST in the big ten when counting the sexual assaults investigated by 'university security'? Seems to have died down and slipped from recollection, as eventually this will too.
(I don't remember Mikehunt writing any articles about it at the time.)
Quote from: augoman on July 04, 2011, 01:45:13 PM
Hmmmmm, how many years ago was it disclosed that UW at Madison was about fifth in the big ten in sexual assaults reported to the Madison police..., but FIRST in the big ten when counting the sexual assaults investigated by 'university security'? Seems to have died down and slipped from recollection, as eventually this will too.
(I don't remember Mikehunt writing any articles about it at the time.)
+1 . . . selective memory loss on the part of Hunt. No surprise, though.
Quote from: The Sultan of South Wayne on July 04, 2011, 06:26:51 AM
It's not a PR issue...it is a decision making issue. Good PR can't make up for the fact that MU's decision making is often insular. Can't make a chicken sandwich out of chickensh*t.
We agree wholeheartedly on the decision making part, but I'd argue that the PR missteps have made issues worse. The presser the other day with Broeker and Buzz...why? Why even do this? Fuel to the fire is all that did. It's those types of PR decisions that just blow my mind.
But yes, in general I agree.
Quote from: augoman on July 04, 2011, 01:45:13 PM
Hmmmmm, how many years ago was it disclosed that UW at Madison was about fifth in the big ten in sexual assaults reported to the Madison police..., but FIRST in the big ten when counting the sexual assaults investigated by 'university security'? Seems to have died down and slipped from recollection, as eventually this will too.
(I don't remember Mikehunt writing any articles about it at the time.)
Part of it is because we are a Catholic school. Like it or not, that brings extra scrutiny. It's the same reason why Republicans are blasted more for infidelity in public life than Democrats are....and the media will come right out and tell you why..."they are the party of family values". No different here. Do not underestimate the hatred toward the Catholic church by many people in this country. When they see Notre Dame or Marquette or Boston College caught up in a scandal, they absolutely relish in putting it in bright lights. Just look at the comments in the JS and the Chicago Tribune if you want some evidence. There are a LOT of anti-Catholics out there that are giddy when these things happen. In some way, I don't blame them. We should be better than this. We weren't, now we have to go out and make amends to do it better.
The last thing we should be is on par with the trash that UW-madison has put through their athletic system in football, basketball, hockey over the years. It's time to clean our act up because we will not be given the same wink wink turn a blind eye like they get. That's just reality.
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on July 04, 2011, 03:11:52 PM
We agree wholeheartedly on the decision making part, but I'd argue that the PR missteps have made issues worse. The presser the other day with Broeker and Buzz...why? Why even do this? Fuel to the fire is all that did. It's those types of PR decisions that just blow my mind.
Yeah I admit that was bad. They wanted to have him be the most visible spokesman on behalf of the department, but it was like throwing blood in the water.
Quote from: The Sultan of South Wayne on July 04, 2011, 03:20:37 PM
Yeah I admit that was bad. They wanted to have him be the most visible spokesman on behalf of the department, but it was like throwing blood in the water.
Agree - From the quotes I read of that press conference - it made both Broeker and Buzz look like idiots - moreso Broeker's comments about wanting to put the most visible face of the university (Buzz) in front of the media...and then Buzz came off looking bad for the clumsy statement on his feelings about sexual assault..
Head of DPS, Quade, and Cottingham/Broeker should have all been at a press conference to address this matter..each and every time the media was wanting to address/write about it..
The problem is the same problem - none of us, including these reporters, know the whole story. And Marquette cannot tell their whole story. It is a problem indeed, for MU. And how they have handled this problem is a lesson on what not to do in the future.
Berating the school, the athletes, or dismissing the alleged victims' claims are all wrong things to do. As hard as it is for us to admit it, we don't know the whole story, and probably never will. In the meantime, reporerts need to wrtite stuff and sell subscriptions so when they see blood in the water, they will circle around, sharpen their pencils and write write write.
This should be a very humbling lesson for Marquette. Learn this lesson and choose actions wisely if there ever is another issue like this.
MU has said basically all that they are legally allowed to say and they've "corrected" their system of reporting crimes to MPD. There's really not much more that they can do at this point but wait it out (which is why the presser was such a bad idea). There's a lot of MU hate in the state of Wisconsin but, unless any new information comes to light, this story will be forgotten by most people and fans in 6 months...although, I have a sneaking suspicion that a certain attention-starved poster will be bringing it up quite often on here.
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on July 04, 2011, 03:16:54 PM
Part of it is because we are a Catholic school. Like it or not, that brings extra scrutiny. It's the same reason why Republicans are blasted more for infidelity in public life than Democrats are....and the media will come right out and tell you why..."they are the party of family values". No different here. Do not underestimate the hatred toward the Catholic church by many people in this country. When they see Notre Dame or Marquette or Boston College caught up in a scandal, they absolutely relish in putting it in bright lights. Just look at the comments in the JS and the Chicago Tribune if you want some evidence. There are a LOT of anti-Catholics out there that are giddy when these things happen. In some way, I don't blame them. We should be better than this. We weren't, now we have to go out and make amends to do it better.
Right on the money Chico! Probably the best post you ever made.
I'm not sure I completely agree with the hatred of the Catholic Church (though we both can agree that it is out there), but I do think the values we profess call us to a higher standard.
At this point, we admit we made a mistake, due penance (which does NOT mean releasing names) and promise to sin no more.
Folks that comment on newspaper articles are more pathetic than internet message posters.
I think there is other issues at MU which will be dragged out in the future. Under TC the kids graduated, under Buzz not sure
that is happening. Lazar and Jimmy, no, I am sure Joe and Dwight have not either. JC kids might be challenging when it comes
to graduation. So it becomes win right away, take questionable Academic kids, or get hammered like TC has the last few years?
Quote from: BCHoopster on July 05, 2011, 10:39:39 AM
I think there is other issues at MU which will be dragged out in the future. Under TC the kids graduated, under Buzz not sure
that is happening. Lazar and Jimmy, no, I am sure Joe and Dwight have not either. JC kids might be challenging when it comes
to graduation. So it becomes win right away, take questionable Academic kids, or get hammered like TC has the last few years?
Pretty sure Jimmy Butler graduated/is eligible to graduate. Lazar was a Crean recruit - but made it to the NBA as did Jimmy - so really, who cares?? They can always come back and get a ceremonial degree that will help them get a job after the days of making millions in the NBA.
I don't know anything about Fulce or Buycks situations...Beyond that, I wouldn't jump to conclusions about the academic focus of the program under Buzz until we see what becomes of his 4-year program guys. And truthfully, if MU graduates 75% of its players - which is just as much a responsibility of the athlete as it is the university - I'm okay. We do know from watching the MU Revealed series last year, that the team had only 1 unexcused class absence and as a result, ran and ran and ran...
I agree on Butler And Lazar, there career path is 99.9% better than most college kids. If they get a second
contract they will be set for life, unless they are like Latrell Sprewell. So it is important the other kids graduate.
Quote from: BCHoopster on July 05, 2011, 10:39:39 AM
I think there is other issues at MU which will be dragged out in the future. Under TC the kids graduated, under Buzz not sure that is happening. Lazar and Jimmy, no, I am sure Joe and Dwight have not either. JC kids might be challenging when it comes to graduation. So it becomes win right away, take questionable Academic kids, or get hammered like TC has the last few years?
I share your concern, but I don't think it comes down to "questionable academic kids."
With Lazar and Jimmy, they left school second semester to train for the draft. I understand it, but I'm not crazy about this. If they exhaust their eligibility they should leave with a degree.
No idea what happened with Buycks, but Fulce is working toward his degree and will graduate in December I believe.
Quote from: BCHoopster on July 05, 2011, 10:39:39 AM
I think there is other issues at MU which will be dragged out in the future. Under TC the kids graduated, under Buzz not sure
that is happening. Lazar and Jimmy, no, I am sure Joe and Dwight have not either. JC kids might be challenging when it comes
to graduation. So it becomes win right away, take questionable Academic kids, or get hammered like TC has the last few years?
If the kids are given the tools to graduate, but fail to do so, then I blame them rather than the coaches. My priorities are:
1. Follow the rules and be good citizens
2. Win
3. Graduate
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on July 04, 2011, 03:16:54 PM
Part of it is because we are a Catholic school. Like it or not, that brings extra scrutiny. It's the same reason why Republicans are blasted more for infidelity in public life than Democrats are....and the media will come right out and tell you why..."they are the party of family values". No different here. Do not underestimate the hatred toward the Catholic church by many people in this country. When they see Notre Dame or Marquette or Boston College caught up in a scandal, they absolutely relish in putting it in bright lights. Just look at the comments in the JS and the Chicago Tribune if you want some evidence. There are a LOT of anti-Catholics out there that are giddy when these things happen. In some way, I don't blame them. We should be better than this. We weren't, now we have to go out and make amends to do it better.
The last thing we should be is on par with the trash that UW-madison has put through their athletic system in football, basketball, hockey over the years. It's time to clean our act up because we will not be given the same wink wink turn a blind eye like they get. That's just reality.
There are bigots on one side who will criticize anyone with any standards for sometimes failing to measure up to them. There are people on the other side who sometime confuse their own bigotry with standards. Paying attention to either is a waste of time.
Quote from: Lennys Tap on July 05, 2011, 01:00:52 PM
There are bigots on one side who will criticize anyone with any standards for sometimes failing to measure up to them. There are people on the other side who sometime confuse their own bigotry with standards. Paying attention to either is a waste of time.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lgoXUzIwXk0
Quote from: Lennys Tap on July 05, 2011, 01:00:52 PM
There are bigots on one side who will criticize anyone with any standards for sometimes failing to measure up to them. There are people on the other side who sometime confuse their own bigotry with standards. Paying attention to either is a waste of time.
I don't disagree with you at a high level, but ignoring them I don't think is a waste of time. If people are running around dictating a message about your school, business, or whatever one needs to understand where they are coming from to craft a response, change course, or choose to ignore. In some cases, choosing to ignore is the best medicine but I don't think we can merely stop paying attention...those are different in my opinion.
Quote from: The Sultan of South Wayne on July 05, 2011, 12:04:57 PM
If the kids are given the tools to graduate, but fail to do so, then I blame them rather than the coaches. My priorities are:
1. Follow the rules and be good citizens
2. Win
3. Graduate
I agree with that. In saying that, you want the kids to graduate. JC kids have issues to begin with. Butler and Fulce could have gone
to a 4 year school right away but decided to improve there stock, for Butler, great choice. Colleges lose scholarships if the kids do not
graduate, so it is important that happens. So it is important to recruit kids that might consider, you use the school, do not let the school
use you. A degree is important.
This letter to the editor from a Sexual Assault advocate appeared in the MJS yesterday:
Policy change may hurt victims
Certainly, we all can agree that no university personnel should discourage a victim from reporting sexual assault or any other crime. As a community, we need courageous victims to come forward in order to hold perpetrators accountable and prevent future assaults.
However, Marquette University now will be referring all reports of sexual assault to the Milwaukee Police Department's Sensitive Crimes Unit whether the student wants to talk to police or not. Many are celebrating this change in response, including the Journal Sentinel.
It needs to be noted that adult sexual assault victims everywhere else are given the right to decide whether their assaults are reported to police - there is no mandated reporting for adults, only for children. Sexual assault temporarily robs one of a sense of power and control over one's life. Being able to make decisions about what course of action to pursue after the assault is crucial for victims to begin to regain a sense of power, control and personal autonomy. This policy change, directed by the Milwaukee County district attorney's office, strips victims on one campus of this autonomy and may have the unintended consequence of silencing rape victims.
We are encouraging Marquette officials, as they inform students of this change in policy, to promote the Aurora Sexual Assault Treatment Center sexual assault hotline - (414) 219-5555 - as a confidential resource that students can call to discuss their options and connect with supportive services.
By doing so, victims will be able to decide whether reporting to police feels right for them and receive supportive services regardless of what they decide.
Melinda Hughes
Program Director
The Healing Center
Milwaukee Sexual Assault
Response Team
Advocacy Representative
Milwaukee
Quote from: mu_hilltopper on July 07, 2011, 08:13:29 AM
This letter to the editor from a Sexual Assault advocate appeared in the MJS yesterday:
Policy change may hurt victims
Certainly, we all can agree that no university personnel should discourage a victim from reporting sexual assault or any other crime. As a community, we need courageous victims to come forward in order to hold perpetrators accountable and prevent future assaults.
However, Marquette University now will be referring all reports of sexual assault to the Milwaukee Police Department's Sensitive Crimes Unit whether the student wants to talk to police or not. Many are celebrating this change in response, including the Journal Sentinel.
It needs to be noted that adult sexual assault victims everywhere else are given the right to decide whether their assaults are reported to police - there is no mandated reporting for adults, only for children. Sexual assault temporarily robs one of a sense of power and control over one's life. Being able to make decisions about what course of action to pursue after the assault is crucial for victims to begin to regain a sense of power, control and personal autonomy. This policy change, directed by the Milwaukee County district attorney's office, strips victims on one campus of this autonomy and may have the unintended consequence of silencing rape victims.
We are encouraging Marquette officials, as they inform students of this change in policy, to promote the Aurora Sexual Assault Treatment Center sexual assault hotline - (414) 219-5555 - as a confidential resource that students can call to discuss their options and connect with supportive services.
By doing so, victims will be able to decide whether reporting to police feels right for them and receive supportive services regardless of what they decide.
Melinda Hughes
Program Director
The Healing Center
Milwaukee Sexual Assault
Response Team
Advocacy Representative
Milwaukee
+1
Marquette has such a system in place already...as do most universities these days.
http://www.marquette.edu/haven/
Students need to realize that DPS is responsible for the legal aspects of any reported assault, but that this is where you go for the emotional needs that you may have.