MUScoop

To clear the air as suggested in the JS today?

Absolutely not.

Absolutely not. Hunt's article was easy journalism but wrong. MU doesn't owe anyone anything more that what they have already stated.

Not interested in names, but what sport did these athletes compete in. Still should not have been hushed.

No Way.
MU (and we) may bear liability for doing so. If there is a civil suit filed, the lawyers will reveal all in their pleadings...none of us owe them any assistance.
Duke Lacrosse named names, and Duke paid off big$ when the falsity of the facts came out-- the names of the falsely accused were trampled, and they deserved the $, even if their good names were never fully restored.

Mike Hunt makes it seem as if any other university would name names, but MU is too high and mighty.

The Don Walker article in the Journal Sentinel only adds fuel to this fire.  The statements made by Broeker and lack thereof by Buzz were rather bizarre on the whole matter.  I think 95% of readers, general public assume it is a basketball related matter - this explanation by Broeker is ridiculous:

Asked about Williams' involvement in the interview, Broeker said the school felt the coach was "probably the most powerful spokesman for our university. It's important for him to have his voice heard on the topic of sexual harassment."

"We have the most visible coach of our most visible male athletics program willing to stand up and take a position and a stance on such a sensitive issue," Broeker said.

MU has handled this situation so poorly, it is absolutely embarrassing.  Who is advising administration on these matters?  Whoever is consulting them from a PR perspective ought to be fired.

Quote from: Ners on July 01, 2011, 01:17:59 PM
MU has handled this situation so poorly, it is absolutely embarrassing.  Who is advising administration on these matters?  Whoever is consulting them from a PR perspective ought to be fired.

+1, just when you thought it couldn't get worse

Quote from: groove on July 01, 2011, 01:22:18 PM
+1, just when you thought it couldn't get worse

Completely agree...

I wonder what would happen to a player who was not involved coming out and only saying he was not involved? I think a player doing that would be crucifed for not being a team player. I would hate to be indirectly blamed for the possible misactions of other team members.

The other thing about not talking about the accused is that we really do not know what they were accused of. It sounds like the February incident was worse than the October one, but that may be due to the lady making so much noise about it.

Granted the PR sucks and all... but MU can't name names, and these journalists know it.  Mike Hunt and Don Walker are just stoking the controversy despite no new facts about the incident being released... the former because it's a slow sports week in Wisconsin and the latter because of his clear anti-MU bias (he was the one who tried to start a firestorm a couple years ago because the "Pray" video was insensitive to those who don't pray).

If they want to maximize their exposure, Don and Mike should wait for the lawsuit, then pile on.  If the hooker is already on the elevator to your room, what's the point of rubbing one out before she even gets there?

So Cotts is gone.  Big deal.  I have no doubt that the allegations and protocol dysfunction played a role in his decision (the magnitude of which is yet to be ascertained), but his resignation is hardly an indictment of MU in and of itself.

Mi Kehunt, is an idiot if he thinks MU would ever name names without being required to by law.

Can someone just post the girl's name, then?

Since their are no charges, if you name the guys involved, how are they suppose to defend themselves?  Their is no trial, no discovery.  And, if you name them the guys and subject them to public criticism and humility, should the same happen of the girl making the charge?

See Dominic Strauss-Kahn and Duke Lacrosse.  These are two incidents where the accusers reputations were destroyed when they apparently did nothing.  If we add MU to this list, how does this help the university?

If the accuser really feels she was wronged, she can sue MU and the guys involved.

Lastly, why is Cottingham taking the fall?  Shouldn't the head of public safety take the hit for setting a policy if not reporting to the MPD and not taking her seriously in the first place?

As tulsawarrior says on the other board, it is against the law to name names at this point.       Plus, since no charges were filed, what are you going to do, name the name of people who weren't actually charged with anything?    Name the victim?    MU has handled this about as poorly as they could have, but there really is no place for them to go right now other than ride it out.  

Quote from: Ners on July 01, 2011, 01:17:59 PM
The Don Walker article in the Journal Sentinel only adds fuel to this fire.  The statements made by Broeker and lack thereof by Buzz were rather bizarre on the whole matter.  I think 95% of readers, general public assume it is a basketball related matter - this explanation by Broeker is ridiculous:

Asked about Williams' involvement in the interview, Broeker said the school felt the coach was "probably the most powerful spokesman for our university. It's important for him to have his voice heard on the topic of sexual harassment."

"We have the most visible coach of our most visible male athletics program willing to stand up and take a position and a stance on such a sensitive issue," Broeker said.

I would not be shocked if Buzz' tude is to lay it all out, get in front of it, and speak from the heart to the issue, vs., the atty Cottingham....well not so much b/c when litigation may be coming a defendants out of court defense rarely works (see 60 minutes interviews with stammering, corp. representatives-lol)

.

Cottingham, as a lawyer, would have had no comment, and prefer no one else talk to the press. It appears this AD is talking...I'm not sure either tact is perfectly right/wrong...but it may be evidence of the splits in AD/administration, leading to Cottingham leaving.

Not to "over" read between the lines, but might the following, also mean Buzz has wanted to talk, but Cottingham muzzled him?

We have the most visible coach of our most visible male athletics program willing to stand up and take a position and a stance on such a sensitive issue," Broeker said.

Quote from: AnotherMU84 on July 01, 2011, 02:51:09 PM
Since their are no charges, if you name the guys involved, how are they suppose to defend themselves?  Their is no trial, no discovery.  And, if you name them the guys and subject them to public criticism and humility, should the same happen of the girl making the charge?

See Dominic Strauss-Kahn and Duke Lacrosse.  These are two incidents where the accusers reputations were destroyed when they apparently did nothing.  If we add MU to this list, how does this help the university?

If the accuser really feels she was wronged, she can sue MU and the guys involved.

Lastly, why is Cottingham taking the fall?  Shouldn't the head of public safety take the hit for setting a policy if not reporting to the MPD and not taking her seriously in the first place?

He isn't taking the fall.  As I said in the other thread like this, if he was taking the fall, it would have been weeks or months ago.

From a PR perspective they handled it fine. They can't name names. They can't get more specific from a legal perspective. What are they supposed to do?  What are they supposed to say?

Derrick Wendler didn't name names.  Why should anyone else?

Sure, name names. And include mine in the list of names given, I wasn't charged with sexually assaulting her.

Hunt was WAY out of bounds in his opinion column today.  MU absolutely CAN'T reveal any information about the individuals involved or give any clue as to their team affiliation.  To do so invites legal action.  That said, I think the presser that included Williams is a PR mistake.  Heck, the alleged perps could be on any team fielded by the university.  Moreover, we've seen plenty of cases where the alleged victim's story proves false.  In this case, we have no way to know.  But we do know that the athletes have the absolute legal right to their privacy.  End of story.

And let's remember that the DA looked at these cases and said they weren't going to pursue.  The simple fact is that MU followed an erroneous decade long policy of offering to contact the MPD but not insisting on it.  That has proven to be faulty and may have hampered an initial investigation.  That, plus some inappropriate meeting with coaches in the "I'm in trouble, coach." mode appear to be the extent of the misdeeds.  MU has corrected the policy having been admonished by the DA following extensive discovery.

To blow this up as something more is simply MU hate speech.  I couldn't be more tired of reading the trolls on the JSOnline blogs.

Quote from: The Sultan of South Wayne on July 01, 2011, 04:55:35 PM
From a PR perspective they handled it fine. They can't name names. They can't get more specific from a legal perspective. What are they supposed to do?  What are they supposed to say?

My feeling has been that MU has taken the "we're sorry, we deserve our spanking, etc.," throughout this whole matter - and it has backfired.  I'd have liked for MU to vehemently defend its handling of the cases from the very start - and reiterate that both "victims" had the ability to choose to call MPD first or Public Safety - the "victims" chose Public Safety.  MU should have been very adamant that both "victims" were given the choice to take the matter to MPD.  MU should have reiterated that based on the evidence presented to Public Safety - there was no evidence of Sexual Assault.  Furthermore, it should have been reiterated that the D.A. of MKE found insufficient evidence to bring charges.  The head of DPS should be out on the front line defending his department, and how the case was handled, and that based on the evidence presented - DPS was confident beyond a shadow of a doubt that rape/sexual assault did NOT occur.

MU could have been contrite and sensitive to the incident, yet said it disciplined the athletes under university policy, reprimanded the coaching staff - yet with all available evidence in such a "he said/she said" case, there was no evidence of sexual assault.  As a result, it is unfair to name the names of the parties involved, due to their being no charges filed.

Quote from: Ners on July 01, 2011, 05:48:03 PM
My feeling has been that MU has taken the "we're sorry, we deserve our spanking, etc.," throughout this whole matter - and it has backfired.  I'd have liked for MU to vehemently defend its handling of the cases from the very start - and reiterate that both "victims" had the ability to choose to call MPD first or Public Safety - the "victims" chose Public Safety.  MU should have been very adamant that both "victims" were given the choice to take the matter to MPD.  MU should have reiterated that based on the evidence presented to Public Safety - there was no evidence of Sexual Assault.  Furthermore, it should have been reiterated that the D.A. of MKE found insufficient evidence to bring charges.  The head of DPS should be out on the front line defending his department, and how the case was handled, and that based on the evidence presented - DPS was confident beyond a shadow of a doubt that rape/sexual assault did NOT occur.

MU could have been contrite and sensitive to the incident, yet said it disciplined the athletes under university policy, reprimanded the coaching staff - yet with all available evidence in such a "he said/she said" case, there was no evidence of sexual assault.  As a result, it is unfair to name the names of the parties involved, due to their being no charges filed.

This is my biggest issue. I still contend that Marquette followed their procedures, which included not reporting a crime that they didn't believe happened after a thorough investigation, and really didn't do anything wrong.

What the university should have done was say "we followed our procedures, gave the complaintants a chance to go to MPD, and when they declined, we dropped the situation as our investigation found no further action was needed." If they want to adjust policies after that, fine, but while I'm in the minority, I still don't think Marquette was in the wrong. They followed their procedures, and upon further investigation from MPD, there was no need for charges, which validates that their procedures worked, despite what an attention whore DA may claim.

No. You are wrong. Saying sorry and moving on was the best way to kill the story quickly. Rigorously defending actions that violated state law would be unwise. You think its bad now?  Just watch what would happen if they tried to portray themselves above the law.

Quote from: Earl Tatum on July 01, 2011, 12:57:22 PM
Not interested in names, but what sport did these athletes compete in. Still should not have been hushed.

Most people know who at least three of the student athletes were and by result, the sport they played.

Let's put it another way, does anyone really believe these stories make the press like they did and an AD resigns if it were members of the Tennis team?

Quote from: Ners on July 01, 2011, 05:48:03 PM
My feeling has been that MU has taken the "we're sorry, we deserve our spanking, etc.," throughout this whole matter - and it has backfired.  I'd have liked for MU to vehemently defend its handling of the cases from the very start - and reiterate that both "victims" had the ability to choose to call MPD first or Public Safety - the "victims" chose Public Safety.  MU should have been very adamant that both "victims" were given the choice to take the matter to MPD.  MU should have reiterated that based on the evidence presented to Public Safety - there was no evidence of Sexual Assault.  Furthermore, it should have been reiterated that the D.A. of MKE found insufficient evidence to bring charges.  The head of DPS should be out on the front line defending his department, and how the case was handled, and that based on the evidence presented - DPS was confident beyond a shadow of a doubt that rape/sexual assault did NOT occur.

You are so out of your league on this stuff.  You would want MU to vehemently defend the school based on what?  I'm sure Boyle and the university counsel knew exactly what they were doing which is to take their lumps.  Pushing this into the public to defend MU's actions (they were VIOLATING THE DAMN LAW NERS) was a nonstarter.  Plus you would have this huge perception that they were going to bat to protect a certain class of students (student athletes and high profile ones) and not caring about others, namely female students.  I may remind you that women make up the majority of the student body at Marquette University.

This was a no win situation for Marquette because they broke the law for 10 years.  The tact you are suggesting Marquette take would be a Public Relations nightmare and almost a certain legal loser.  You have no idea what you are talking about here and it shows in your statements.  Naivete. 

The MU administration would be wise to make a call to Ari Fleischer and see if he can come run the PR department.

Quote from: Doris Burkes Thong on July 02, 2011, 02:09:27 AM
The MU administration would be wise to make a call to Ari Fleischer and see if he can come run the PR department.

That was well played.

Quote from: The Sultan of South Wayne on July 01, 2011, 07:42:39 PM
No. You are wrong. Saying sorry and moving on was the best way to kill the story quickly. Rigorously defending actions that violated state law would be unwise. You think its bad now?  Just watch what would happen if they tried to portray themselves above the law.

Exactly.  You get it, Hooploop gets it as do a few others.  MU looked bad in this, but going down the ners path would have been the height of stupidity.

Very good Doris.

Back to the point.  MU absolutely erred in its historic policy.  THAT was the mistake and that is what the DA said in his statement.  The investigation took place into the policy because of the high profile nature.  No names are ever coming out.  As I see it, the case is now closed.  But MU couldn't defend its prior policy; and hasn't.

Now lets talk about how awesome our 2-headed 5 monster is going to be this year.

Quote from: Ners on July 01, 2011, 05:48:03 PM
My feeling has been that MU has taken the "we're sorry, we deserve our spanking, etc.," throughout this whole matter - and it has backfired.  I'd have liked for MU to vehemently defend its handling of the cases from the very start - and reiterate that both "victims" had the ability to choose to call MPD first or Public Safety - the "victims" chose Public Safety.  MU should have been very adamant that both "victims" were given the choice to take the matter to MPD.  MU should have reiterated that based on the evidence presented to Public Safety - there was no evidence of Sexual Assault.  Furthermore, it should have been reiterated that the D.A. of MKE found insufficient evidence to bring charges.  The head of DPS should be out on the front line defending his department, and how the case was handled, and that based on the evidence presented - DPS was confident beyond a shadow of a doubt that rape/sexual assault did NOT occur.

MU could have been contrite and sensitive to the incident, yet said it disciplined the athletes under university policy, reprimanded the coaching staff - yet with all available evidence in such a "he said/she said" case, there was no evidence of sexual assault.  As a result, it is unfair to name the names of the parties involved, due to their being no charges filed.

Genius. Yeah, let's have the university bureaucrats come off as even holier than thou. You wonder why the UW sisterhood is able to so easily maintain stereotypes about Marquette and its alums as pompous assholes.

Ners, do you think that b!tch Stephanie Quade is making the University look good with her statement to the sobbing victim that she "pray about it"? What you seem to be asking for is that level of arrogance multiplied several times over.

We need fewer clueless, insular university bureaucrats. Not more.

Quote from: warrior07 on July 02, 2011, 12:15:39 PM
Ners, do you think that b!tch Stephanie Quade is making the University look good with her statement to the sobbing victim that she "pray about it"? What you seem to be asking for is that level of arrogance multiplied several times over.

We need fewer clueless, insular university bureaucrats. Not more.

A big hell yeah. 

Quote from: warrior07 on July 02, 2011, 12:15:39 PM
Ners, do you think that b!tch Stephanie Quade is making the University look good with her statement to the sobbing victim that she "pray about it"? What you seem to be asking for is that level of arrogance multiplied several times over.

We need fewer clueless, insular university bureaucrats. Not more.

MU's administration definitely did not handle the situation very well but I do take exception to the portion of The Trib story that attempted to paint a picture of a girl sobbing to the dean about being raped and then dean saying "Pray about it" and shooing her away. Sure, that makes for a good story if your goal is to make the university look bad, but I just find it incredibly hard to believe that the conversation went anything remotely close to that.

Quote from: warrior07 on July 02, 2011, 12:09:57 PM
Genius. Yeah, let's have the university bureaucrats come off as even holier than thou. You wonder why the UW sisterhood is able to so easily maintain stereotypes about Marquette and its alums as pompous pretty boys.

How has it panned out so far taking the contrite route?

Quote from: warrior07 on July 02, 2011, 12:15:39 PM
Ners, do you think that b!tch Stephanie Quade is making the University look good with her statement to the sobbing victim that she "pray about it"? What you seem to be asking for is that level of arrogance multiplied several times over.

We need fewer clueless, insular university bureaucrats. Not more.

And so you believe everything you read?  Ever known a 19 year old, scorned girl to lie? 

MU blew it in this case because it did not defend what it did do..plain and simple.  Being apologetic has only fanned the flames that there was in fact something wrong about the way it was handled.  You get DPS out there and reiterate that based on the evidence presented at the time, we didn't feel a sexual assault occurred.  However, we informed the "victim" that she could take the matter up with MPD.  MU can say it amended its reporting responsibility policy as a result of this, but there is no reason for it to NOT defend what it did do, and get DPS out in front of the media explaining why the case was handled the way it was:  Because there was no visible evidence a rape/sexual assault occurred.

I wonder why she didn't??  (Probably because she knew that her whole story was B.S. - and DPS saw through it, and MPD probably would too.)

Quote from: Ners on July 02, 2011, 01:59:19 PM
MU blew it in this case because it did not defend what it did do..plain and simple.  Being apologetic has only fanned the flames that there was in fact something wrong about the way it was handled.

Ners, I run the PR for a large University and I can tell you without a doubt you are completely wrong.  There was no defense for what MU did because they violated the law.  You think the fans are flamed now?  Try coming off as above the law.

There was a reason the Cottingham announcement was made just before the 4th of July weekend.  Because by next week it is out of the papers, and by the time school starts no one will care any longer.

One thing I learned from one of my first bosses was "never fight a battle with an organization that buys their ink by the barrell."  That is exactly what MU would be doing by coming out swinging.

Quote from: The Sultan of South Wayne on July 02, 2011, 02:26:21 PM

Ners, I run the PR for a large University and I can tell you without a doubt you are completely wrong.  There was no defense for what MU did because they violated the law.  You think the fans are flamed now?  Try coming off as above the law.

There was a reason the Cottingham announcement was made just before the 4th of July weekend.  Because by next week it is out of the papers, and by the time school starts no one will care any longer.

One thing I learned from one of my first bosses was "never fight a battle with an organization that buys their ink by the barrell."  That is exactly what MU would be doing by coming out swinging.

+1.  For some reason my last post was deleted.  Honestly, I'd just like a coherent explanation from ners why his approach would make any sense.  Everyone here that deals with the media, or the public, etc as part of our careers says that approach is beyond ridiculous, but I'd be curious to hear a point by point rationale why we are wrong.

For some reason? You are dense, man. You can't mention or reply to ners and vice versa. You knew that. There's your explanation. Bans from this point forward. Happy 4th.

Quote from: Ners on July 02, 2011, 01:59:19 PM
How has it panned out so far taking the contrite route?


And so you believe everything you read?  Ever known a 19 year old, scorned girl to lie? 

MU blew it in this case because it did not defend what it did do..plain and simple.  Being apologetic has only fanned the flames that there was in fact something wrong about the way it was handled.  You get DPS out there and reiterate that based on the evidence presented at the time, we didn't feel a sexual assault occurred.  However, we informed the "victim" that she could take the matter up with MPD.  MU can say it amended its reporting responsibility policy as a result of this, but there is no reason for it to NOT defend what it did do, and get DPS out in front of the media explaining why the case was handled the way it was:  Because there was no visible evidence a rape/sexual assault occurred.

I wonder why she didn't??  (Probably because she knew that her whole story was B.S. - and DPS saw through it, and MPD probably would too.)

If Marquette has taken the contrition route, it's freaking news to me. Is there a single person who was actually involved in this story who has been reprimanded? And I don't mean the players. I mean all the administration staff who did not report sexual assault cases for 10 years, and the heartless monsters like Stephanie Quade who apparently have a protocol of telling potential rape victims to "pray about it." Dude, they formed a COMMITTEE! That was Marquette's solution. WOW, I'm impressed, Fr. Wild.

I don't have a clue as to whether any Marquette athletes committed any rapes. I do know that this is the billionth time that Marquette has taken a potentially bad incident and made it several magnitudes worse due to the stupidity of the bureaucrats involved.

The Stephanie Quade storyline is really amazing.

She has access to all the investigations, reports, interviews.  She has direct access to the victim AND the accused.    If you knew her, you'd know she'd never give special treatment to athletes or the ath department.  Quade's worked at MU 25+ years.  Oh, and Quade is a woman.  That's no trivial fact.  She might literally be the most sympathetic "judge" at Marquette for a case like this.

She, with complete access to the facts as presented by interviews and direct access to the accuser and accused, says to the accused, prayer may help you get over your suffering, in effect because, what we've found, (and what the Police eventually found) doesn't warrant prosecution.

Option A. She's doing what every single one of us would have done.
Option B. She's a monster, trying to protect the University over a rape victim!

Quote from: mu_hilltopper on July 03, 2011, 08:42:58 AM
The Stephanie Quade storyline is really amazing.

She has access to all the investigations, reports, interviews.  She has direct access to the victim AND the accused.    If you knew her, you'd know she'd never give special treatment to athletes or the ath department.  Quade's worked at MU 25+ years.  Oh, and Quade is a woman.  That's no trivial fact.  She might literally be the most sympathetic "judge" at Marquette for a case like this.

She, with complete access to the facts as presented by interviews and direct access to the accuser and accused, says to the accused, prayer may help you get over your suffering, in effect because, what we've found, (and what the Police eventually found) doesn't warrant prosecution.

Option A. She's doing what every single one of us would have done.
Option B. She's a monster, trying to protect the University over a rape victim!

This was an excellent post.  It is true, both DPS and the DA could not pursue the accusations as made.  We have heard one side of the story.  The only criticism leveled at MU was for violating the law by not reporting.  Yet, MU, the Athletic Dept., all coaches and players are deemed guilty by some.  That some includes the press and a few known posters on this board.

Quote from: mu_hilltopper on July 03, 2011, 08:42:58 AM
The Stephanie Quade storyline is really amazing.

She has access to all the investigations, reports, interviews.  She has direct access to the victim AND the accused.    If you knew her, you'd know she'd never give special treatment to athletes or the ath department.  Quade's worked at MU 25+ years.  Oh, and Quade is a woman.  That's no trivial fact.  She might literally be the most sympathetic "judge" at Marquette for a case like this.

She, with complete access to the facts as presented by interviews and direct access to the accuser and accused, says to the accused, prayer may help you get over your suffering, in effect because, what we've found, (and what the Police eventually found) doesn't warrant prosecution.

Option A. She's doing what every single one of us would have done.
Option B. She's a monster, trying to protect the University over a rape victim!

Dr. Quade has a solid and long established reputation of NOT showing favoritism to athletes and for being an outspoken advocate for women's rights.  She is a solid and highly respected Dean of Students.  That's one reason I'm skeptical of some of the comments of the alleged victim that appeared in the Tribune article.  They paint a picture that does not fit Dr. Quade at all.  And yes, I've personally known her for 30 years.

Quote from: jsglow on July 03, 2011, 09:12:51 AM
Dr. Quade has a solid and long established reputation of NOT showing favoritism to athletes and for being an outspoken advocate for women's rights.  She is a solid and highly respected Dean of Students.  That's one reason I'm skeptical of some of the comments of the alleged victim that appeared in the Tribune article.  They paint a picture that does not fit Dr. Quade at all.  And yes, I've personally known her for 30 years.

Her comments are obviously taken out of context.  Poor reporting by the Tribune.  But its what they printed and the perception of Quade is now poor.... :( 

Quote from: warrior07 on July 02, 2011, 06:47:45 PM
If Marquette has taken the contrition route, it's freaking news to me. Is there a single person who was actually involved in this story who has been reprimanded? And I don't mean the players. I mean all the administration staff who did not report sexual assault cases for 10 years, and the heartless monsters like Stephanie Quade who apparently have a protocol of telling potential rape victims to "pray about it." Dude, they formed a COMMITTEE! That was Marquette's solution. WOW, I'm impressed, Fr. Wild.

The "Committee" that you are talking about is their sexual response task force that has people on-call 24/7 to counsel women (or men for that matter) who face issues like these immediately.  It is meant to pretty much be the exact opposite of a bureaucratic response.

Quote from: mu_hilltopper on July 03, 2011, 08:42:58 AM
The Stephanie Quade storyline is really amazing.

She has access to all the investigations, reports, interviews.  She has direct access to the victim AND the accused.    If you knew her, you'd know she'd never give special treatment to athletes or the ath department.  Quade's worked at MU 25+ years.  Oh, and Quade is a woman.  That's no trivial fact.  She might literally be the most sympathetic "judge" at Marquette for a case like this.

She, with complete access to the facts as presented by interviews and direct access to the accuser and accused, says to the accused, prayer may help you get over your suffering, in effect because, what we've found, (and what the Police eventually found) doesn't warrant prosecution.

Option A. She's doing what every single one of us would have done.
Option B. She's a monster, trying to protect the University over a rape victim!

.
Perfectly stated. Everything we know and a 25+ year record says A. Still, some will dismiss that 25+ year distinguished record with simplistic comments like "Lacrosse isn't basketball". They'll never admit that they choose B - but that's what they do when they reject A.

Quote from: MUMac on July 03, 2011, 09:05:23 AM
This was an excellent post.  It is true, both DPS and the DA could not pursue the accusations as made.  We have heard one side of the story.  The only criticism leveled at MU was for violating the law by not reporting.  Yet, MU, the Athletic Dept., all coaches and players are deemed guilty by some.  That some includes the press and a few known posters on this board.

I'd love to hear one person that deemed the players and coaches guilty.  I've seen plenty of posts, my own included, that stated the way MU handled this (so piss poorly it borders on malpractice) it leaves doubt of innocence or guilt in the air.  There is no clarity because the DA and the MPD said it was too late, stories could be corroborated, evidence changed, etc.  Those were law enforcement's words.  I think that is considerably different than saying anyone is guilty.  In fact, most of those posts state how this shameful process meant no guilt or innocence could be found, instead a situation of limbo where we'll never know.

Who are these "few known posters" that have stated these players and coaches are guilty?

Quote from: Lennys Tap on July 03, 2011, 10:23:27 AM
.
Perfectly stated. Everything we know and a 25+ year record says A. Still, some will dismiss that 25+ year distinguished record with simplistic comments like "Lacrosse isn't basketball". They'll never admit that they choose B - but that's what they do when they reject A.

Public perception plays into these things.  It looks like a cover-up to some, and I don't think many reasonable people would deny that perception is out there and with validity, whether it's right or wrong there is no stretch to that line of thinking.  This just in...we lost the Athletic Director on the heels of all of this. This also just in, the university has had to publicly apologize at least three times over all this.  Also just in, MU has had to change it's policy as a result of all this.  If you don't think that doesn't tie in further with that perception, I can't help you.  You would have to have your head so buried in the sand to ignore the realities of what many in the community are saying about this.

As for Quade, since when did a 25+ year career mean people don't make mistakes?  Make errors in judgment?   I hope you are not suggesting that.  It happens all the time.  I'm not a big fan of some of her decisions for other reasons, going back several decades, but that's a sidebar.  She's a nice person, well respected in the university by most groups.   

Whether the answer is A, B or something  else we probably won't know for awhile, or even ever.  The perception is out there, right or wrong is that MU screwed the pooch on this.  You seem to have dug in your heels so much that you are denying that perception is not only real, I'd argue it's the dominant theory in the conversation because of how we handled it.  MU has no one to blame but themselves.

Chicos, I agree that people make mistakes.  However, what really upsets me is that when someone with a respected 25 year career is dismissed as a "b1tch" and a "clueless, insular beaurocrat," when they really have no idea IF she made a mistake or not.  And even if she did make a mistake, did so with the best of intentions.

Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on July 03, 2011, 12:40:26 PM
I'd love to hear one person that deemed the players and coaches guilty.  I've seen plenty of posts, my own included, that stated the way MU handled this (so piss poorly it borders on malpractice) it leaves doubt of innocence or guilt in the air.  There is no clarity because the DA and the MPD said it was too late, stories could be corroborated, evidence changed, etc.  Those were law enforcement's words.  I think that is considerably different than saying anyone is guilty.  In fact, most of those posts state how this shameful process meant no guilt or innocence could be found, instead a situation of limbo where we'll never know.

Who are these "few known posters" that have stated these players and coaches are guilty?

I will research the names, once you do for your post "Anyone find it ironic that the coaches and players were reprimanded\disciplined when they didn't "do anything wrong" according to some here."  Who are these that have stated MU has done nothing wrong?

If it consoles you, I was not referring to you.

Quote from: The Sultan of South Wayne on July 03, 2011, 01:03:50 PM
Chicos, I agree that people make mistakes.  However, what really upsets me is that when someone with a respected 25 year career is dismissed as a "b1tch" and a "clueless, insular beaurocrat," when they really have no idea IF she made a mistake or not.  And even if she did make a mistake, did so with the best of intentions.

That's a fair point.   You should read some of my private email from folks here....LOL.  Or some that aren't private.

Quote from: The Sultan of South Wayne on July 03, 2011, 01:03:50 PM
Chicos, I agree that people make mistakes.  However, what really upsets me is that when someone with a respected 25 year career is dismissed as a "b1tch" and a "clueless, insular beaurocrat," when they really have no idea IF she made a mistake or not.  And even if she did make a mistake, did so with the best of intentions.

Anyone who tells a potential rape victim to "pray about it" rather than call the police is both a b!tch and and insular bureaucrat. I don't give a damn if she's been there for 30 or 300 years. The length of time you've been doing the same bureaucratic work doesn't discount ignorance of the law.

Let me add that every other bureaucrat who failed to live up the THE LAW for the last 10 years is also a b!tch and an insular bureaucrat.

Quote from: The Sultan of South Wayne on July 03, 2011, 01:03:50 PM
Chicos, I agree that people make mistakes.  However, what really upsets me is that when someone with a respected 25 year career is dismissed as a "b1tch" and a "clueless, insular beaurocrat," when they really have no idea IF she made a mistake or not.  And even if she did make a mistake, did so with the best of intentions.

You don't know if she made a mistake? She's been VIOLATING THE LAW for 10 years along with the rest of her bureaucratic accomplices. It's a little worse than a "mistake". Sheesh.

Quote from: MUMac on July 03, 2011, 01:05:00 PM
I will research the names, once you do for your post "Anyone find it ironic that the coaches and players were reprimanded\disciplined when they didn't "do anything wrong" according to some here."  Who are these that have stated MU has done nothing wrong?

If it consoles you, I was not referring to you.

SoCal Warrior will ban me if I state some of those people...so am I allowed an exception?

As for all the defending of Quade - if only we as a society had some sort of adjudicatory system set up for alleged criminal activity so that we don't need to sit and argue about the moral and judicial merits of a university employee with a number of conflicting interests...

Moral of the story, seems like MU's illegal policy set her up to look terrible in this.  Not only did it make her complicit in illegal activity, but gave her no established way to personally defend her reputation when that illegal activity inevitably hit the fan.

Quote from: warrior07 on July 03, 2011, 01:22:28 PM
Anyone who tells a potential rape victim to "pray about it" rather than call the police is both a b!tch and and insular bureaucrat. I don't give a damn if she's been there for 30 or 300 years. The length of time you've been doing the same bureaucratic work doesn't discount ignorance of the law.

Let me add that every other bureaucrat who failed to live up the THE LAW for the last 10 years is also a b!tch and an insular bureaucrat.

As has been pointed out, the "pray about it" reference was reported by one source, without any comment by MU or Quade herself.  Also, you don't know what else she did and what context she said it in.

And I fail to understand how it is Quade's fault that DPS wasn't following state law.  Clearly, MU was failed by their attornies (interesting considering Cottingham's previous role with MU) and by DPS more than anyone.

And your language and tone makes you look like a loon.  HTH.

I am not a DPS apologist, they were definitely in the wrong, but MPD and Milw Cty DA are complicit.  They knew what was going on.  Chief Flynn and DA Chisholm were happy as hell to have DPS run interference for them, sorting out what was a crime and what wasn't.

Marquette has been a PR nightmare for as long as I've been paying attention (33 years).  They have always used the "pull up the drawbridge and they can't touch us" method.  Becky fans and other MU haters will always hate.  Trying to pacify them is a fools errand.  Would I like for MU to hire competent PR?  Yeah, sure, but it won't pacify the haters.  It would make my life as a MU grad and fan easier at times, but I will always be a MU supporter.

Quote from: The Sultan of South Wayne on July 03, 2011, 04:28:43 PM

As has been pointed out, the "pray about it" reference was reported by one source, without any comment by MU or Quade herself.  Also, you don't know what else she did and what context she said it in.

And I fail to understand how it is Quade's fault that DPS wasn't following state law.  Clearly, MU was failed by their attornies (interesting considering Cottingham's previous role with MU) and by DPS more than anyone.

And your language and tone makes you look like a loon.  HTH.

+1.  warrior07 has ridden the high horse into a low tree.

Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on July 03, 2011, 01:24:27 PM
SoCal Warrior will ban me if I state some of those people...so am I allowed an exception?

Again, I will ban you if you quote or mention Ners. And at this point I honest hope you do.

I'm going to get called out for blaming the victim and being a jerk, but since all anyone can do is throw out theories then I have one of my own. This girl went there basically with a bone to pick with this athlete (from Trib article) and who knows, maybe she didn't get the answer she was looking for and decided to seek some revenge. Also, she went public with this after the first one hit the news (I know she went to dps right after).

Once again just a possibility out of hundreds, just a thought I had that wasn't mentioned. If her version is true, then there are big problems and I'm extremely disappointed in the university and those involved and hope she's able to find a way to get through this.

"That wasn't mentioned???"

Are you serious?  People have been blaming the victim since this whole thing started.

Quote from: The Sultan of South Wayne on July 03, 2011, 10:11:35 PM
"That wasn't mentioned???"

Are you serious?  People have been blaming the victim since this whole thing started.

I'm sure you meant to type alleged victim, or do you know something MU, DPS, MPD and the DA don't?

Quote from: SoCalwarrior on July 03, 2011, 07:41:05 PM
Again, I will ban you if you quote or mention Ners. And at this point I honest hope you do.

Uhm, that's why I didn't and even pointed out I can't respond to the request from MuMac because you will ban me. 

If you honestly hope I do, just get it over with and ban me.  You can have a board go from 85% people with heads in the sand to 86%...it's your call....it's your board...you own it.  Do what you have to do.  Happy 4th of July.

Quote from: warrior07 on July 03, 2011, 01:24:21 PM
You don't know if she made a mistake? She's been VIOLATING THE LAW for 10 years along with the rest of her bureaucratic accomplices. It's a little worse than a "mistake". Sheesh.

She's a classic Office of Student life administrator found at colleges around the country.  They have a view of the world that is not always law and order viewed.

My bigger concern is looking at where she's putting her money.   After seeing this, my run in with that department years ago makes so much more sense now. 

http://www.campaignmoney.com/political/contributions/stephanie-quade.asp?cycle=08

Quote from: Hoopaloop on July 04, 2011, 01:39:08 PM

She's a classic Office of Student life administrator found at colleges around the country.  They have a view of the world that is not always law and order viewed.

My bigger concern is looking at where she's putting her money.   After seeing this, my run in with that department years ago makes so much more sense now. 

http://www.campaignmoney.com/political/contributions/stephanie-quade.asp?cycle=08

Oh, definitely.  If whoever you are dealing with doesn't belong to your political party, they are totally trying to screw you.

I'm blown away that people give thousands of dollars to candidates...OF EITHER party.  I'm sure good, smart people do it all the time but I can't ever imagine in my lifetime being so smitten with clowns from either party to depart several thousand dollars to them so they can get into power.  Bizarre, but each to their own. 

Quote from: Hoopaloop on July 04, 2011, 01:39:08 PM

She's a classic Office of Student life administrator found at colleges around the country.  They have a view of the world that is not always law and order viewed.

My bigger concern is looking at where she's putting her money.   After seeing this, my run in with that department years ago makes so much more sense now. 

http://www.campaignmoney.com/political/contributions/stephanie-quade.asp?cycle=08

See?  What are you worried about???  Liberals are godless so they would never pray about a potential rape.

The whole "pray about it" line could have been a complete fabrication, but Dr. Quade & MU can't do a damn thing about it.  Imagine MU responding by calling the accuser/alleged victim a liar... even if MU were 100% in the right, imagine what Mike Hunt would be writing tomorrow -- "Marquette the Oppressor of Students Who Lie"

Even if not a fabrication, "pray about it" could have been one of many suggestions... it could have been appropriately used as a final remark in a comprehensive conversation that gave counsel and discussed options.  But of course, let's take everything out of context because America's attention span is only 9 seconds long on any issue.  In any event, how should MU respond?  By saying that the alleged victim is twisting the facts and spinning the story against the institution?  Mike Hunt's next headline -- "Marquette Refuses to Turn the Other Cheek - Defends Allegations"

Quote from: Benny B on July 05, 2011, 11:49:53 AM
The whole "pray about it" line could have been a complete fabrication, but Dr. Quade & MU can't do a damn thing about it.  Imagine MU responding by calling the accuser/alleged victim a liar... even if MU were 100% in the right, imagine what Mike Hunt would be writing tomorrow -- "Marquette the Oppressor of Students Who Lie"

Even if not a fabrication, "pray about it" could have been one of many suggestions... it could have been appropriately used as a final remark in a comprehensive conversation that gave counsel and discussed options.  But of course, let's take everything out of context because America's attention span is only 9 seconds long on any issue.  In any event, how should MU respond?  By saying that the alleged victim is twisting the facts and spinning the story against the institution?  Mike Hunt's next headline -- "Marquette Refuses to Turn the Other Cheek - Defends Allegations"

MU is in a no-win situation. It's not like can hold a presser and say, "These are the athletes who have been accused and they'd like to tell their side of the story just clear things up with the general public..." Because of this, the accuser and the media can rake MU over the coals, claim that MU should name names (even though that would illegal), and get one side of the story and fabricate it if they want to (not saying they did, just saying that no one at MU can really respond). Also, MU would have, in theory, been helped out by MPD saying that they are working with MU public safety to clear up the miscommunications they had been having in regards to reporting potential crimes. This obviously wasn't going to happen because MPD wasn't going to bring any of the onus on themselves (even though it would be naive to think that they were unaware that MU had been in violation of the law for a decade).

Basically, MU can't defend themselves against the media or against public opinion. And the other group who bears responsibility for the lack of compliance with the law is more or less playing dumb and putting all the blame on MU and, again, MU can't really push back.

As I stated earlier, I'd be surprised if this was still an issue come Christmas.

Quote from: MerrittsMustache on July 05, 2011, 01:12:30 PMAs I stated earlier, I'd be surprised if this was still an issue come Christmas.

Depends on when they name a permanent replacement for Cottingham and who it is. If they name Broeker as his replacement in late December, this will be an issue come Christmas.  :-\