change the nickname back to Warriors?
New president. May be the time. I still don't think they ever go back, though I prefer Warriors. I just think too many people in decision making capacities are against it, so, like the Borg, resistance is futile.
That would be great. Then the name would match my license plate holder again.
F*ckin', now you're talkin'. You know the one smuck who coulda gotten it done, but didn't have the nads? Yep, none other than I4. Wild, Strong, and the Board worshipped the throne he squatted on. Instead, the piece of work chose "Gold."
Quote from: 4everwarriors on June 02, 2011, 12:08:12 PM
F*ckin', now you're talkin'. You know the one smuck who coulda gotten it done, but didn't have the nads? Yep, none other than I4. Wild, Strong, and the Board worshipped the throne he squatted on. Instead, the piece of work chose "Gold."
This is the talk of a madman.
Not the content, necessarily...just the presentation. I heard it in my head being said by Yosemite Sam.
Quote from: ZiggysF*ckinFryBoy on June 02, 2011, 11:58:57 AM
change the nickname back to Warriors?
Probably won't happen for the following:
1) It is too closely related to our native American heritage and the NCAA in its infinite wisdom thinks this is racially discriminatory, meaning we would not be allowed to bring our logos, banners etc., to the NCAA tournament (see references to the Fighting Illini if you don't believe me).
2) It's been more than 15 years since we have been the Warriors and too many people now know us as the "Golden Turkeys"
3) People like furry birds (our mascot).
4) I still like the idea of naming us the "Marquette Inquisition," after a period of time brought to you courtesy of the Jesuits and the Catholic Church, or the "Marquette Flames" after St. Joan of Arc chapel.
The problem is "Furry Birds" or "Golden Eagles" are so bland and so well, yuck, that they don't capture the character of the region or the university. We're a tough crowd and a tough team and that name just does not capture it.
Was it changed from Warriors? Is my house the only one that never got that memo?
Quote from: 4everwarriors on June 02, 2011, 12:08:12 PM
F*ckin', now you're talkin'. You know the one smuck who coulda gotten it done, but didn't have the nads? Yep, none other than I4. Wild, Strong, and the Board worshipped the throne he squatted on. Instead, the piece of work chose "Gold."
I think it's worth noting the considerable skill displayed in this post. It takes one topic that has been beat to death on this board, and seamlessly infuses it with
the most beat to death topic on this board. Well done.
I think more people know us as Marquette than the golden eagles, kind of like people refering to syracuse vs the orange. You know how many casual fans have no idea the mascot names for Marquette or Syracuse? We are Marquette, f@#% the rest.
Yaaaawwwwnnn......it must be getting to the dog days of summer. Nice to talk about. But, folks, it just ain't gonna happen.
Quote from: Nukem2 on June 03, 2011, 10:55:48 AM
Yaaaawwwwnnn......it must be getting to the dog days of summer. Nice to talk about. But, folks, it just ain't gonna happen.
Yeah, but if we can skewer TC and the GE at the same time, with humor, it's all good. Not alot going on otherwise.
Quote from: ringout on June 03, 2011, 11:39:15 AM
Yeah, but if we can skewer TC and the GE at the same time, with humor, it's all good. Not alot going on otherwise.
Yep those dog days of summer. Add to that the NFL and NBA lockouts. Guess we can all watch Tiger golf on one leg... ;)
Quote from: StillAWarrior on June 03, 2011, 09:19:53 AM
I think it's worth noting the considerable skill displayed in this post. It takes one topic that has been beat to death on this board, and seamlessly infuses it with the most beat to death topic on this board. Well done.
4ever is the master of beating the dead meat.
Considering the awesomeness of it, I'd favor "Marquette Angry Birds" over Golden Eagles.
Quote from: 77ncaachamps on June 03, 2011, 05:44:16 PM
Considering the awesomeness of it, I'd favor "Marquette Angry Birds" over Golden Eagles.
Students, get on this.
Of course, I4 would have giant birds in his student section and claim it was his idea.
Warriors, Warriors, Warriors, Warriors, Warriors, Warriors, That name got us a title and Recruits.
Quote from: ZiggysF*ckinFryBoy on June 03, 2011, 07:07:47 PM
Students, get on this.
Of course, I4 would have giant birds in his student section and claim it was his idea.
This deserves an MU mockup, no?
(http://itd.itd.netdna-cdn.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/03/Angry-Birds-Yellow.jpg)
Quote from: ZiggysF*ckinFryBoy on June 02, 2011, 11:58:57 AM
change the nickname back to Warriors?
Because we're hairy wet cats living in a kitten environment and we're afraid of what 25% of the population will say and complain about for a month or two. Put Hootie Johnson in charge, deal with the fallout for a few months and the controversy goes away.
Am I being too simplistic...yeah....but so was the decision to change it. The NCAA would have no standing if we returned to the name with a symbol that complies with a soldier or whatever. Just stay away from the native American imagery and be done with it....but we all know we won't.
Next story...
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on June 04, 2011, 12:26:23 AM
Because we're hairy wet cats living in a kitten environment and we're afraid of what 25% of the population will say and complain about for a month or two. Put Hootie Johnson in charge, deal with the fallout for a few months and the controversy goes away.
Am I being too simplistic...yeah....but so was the decision to change it. The NCAA would have no standing if we returned to the name with a symbol that complies with a soldier or whatever. Just stay away from the native American imagery and be done with it....but we all know we won't.
Next story...
Agree totally, though I would hope that 25% is too high.
Do the old farts that whine about Golden Eagles v Warriors also wear black socks with sandals in the summer.
In fact here is a picture of the MUscoop committee to return the name Warriors.
Quote from: AnotherMU84 on June 04, 2011, 02:36:45 PM
Do the old farts that whine about Golden Eagles v Warriors also wear black socks with sandals in the summer.
In fact here is a picture of the MUscoop committee to return the name Warriors.
I graduated in '69 and wear white sox. I may be old to some, but I'm not a fart. Go warriors!
Quote from: muwarrior69 on June 04, 2011, 05:32:35 PM
I graduated in '69 and wear white sox. I may be old to some, but I'm not a fart. Go warriors!
White soxs is a baseball team. White socks is what you wear ... something like this ...
Quote from: AnotherMU84 on June 04, 2011, 02:36:45 PM
Do the old farts that whine about Golden Eagles v Warriors also wear black socks with sandals in the summer.
In fact here is a picture of the MUscoop committee to return the name Warriors.
No, we tend to be experienced, well heeled, have common sense and have lived life a little to understand it....something the snot nosed, young utopian crew that believes everyone is offended and feigns outrage when the wind blows wouldn't understand.
I wonder in 100 years if a majority of people will even know Native Americans existed since we continually do everything we can to take down any references. Those that survive the name game will be those tribes that have casinos...pretty sad.
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on June 05, 2011, 10:55:08 AM
I wonder in 100 years if a majority of people will even know Native Americans existed since we continually do everything we can to take down any references. Those that survive the name game will be those tribes that have casinos...pretty sad.
Hyperbole kills kittens!!
You are suffering delusions of adequacy if you think your posts exhibit common sense.
Quote from: AnotherMU84 on June 04, 2011, 05:52:48 PM
White soxs is a baseball team. White socks is what you wear ... something like this ...
sox is a variant of the plural of sock.... fyi....
Angry Birds definitely needs to catch on as an informal moniker of some kind, someone needs to tell Homer.
I'd love to see a t-shirt that says "Angry Birds" with the Golden Eagle and Cardinals logos. It would probably sell just as well in Louisville.
Please just let it go... Can't we get a good old fashioned Tom Crean thread...
crean sucks ;)
Quote from: The Sultan of South Wayne on June 05, 2011, 11:07:49 AM
Hyperbole kills kittens!!
Maybe...of course in 100 years none of us will be here to know if I was right. :D
But quickly, do you think more people in this country know or have heard of the Seminoles because of Florida State University or from another means? I'd bet both of our lives that if FSU dropped Seminoles that name\brand and understanding they are an Indian nation would drop considerably as a result. The Seminole nation gets it...smart people.
Quote from: tower912 on June 05, 2011, 12:27:49 PM
You are suffering delusions of adequacy if you think your posts exhibit common sense.
You keep reading them and commenting on them...
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on June 06, 2011, 07:35:18 PM
But quickly, do you think more people in this country know or have heard of the Seminoles because of Florida State University or from another means? I'd bet both of our lives that if FSU dropped Seminoles that name\brand and understanding they are an Indian nation would drop considerably as a result. The Seminole nation gets it...smart people.
Sure, but do most people know anything about the Seminole nation other than its association with Florida State?
Look, I don't have a problem with most native nicknames, but the idea that people might not know that Native Americans even existed because of the NCAAs action is silly. First, I am fairly certain they teach more substantive stuff about Natives in the classroom. And second, most of the imagry used is at worst borderline offensive (Chief Illiniwek's last dance) and at best silly (Chief Osceloa riding out throwing a spear at mid-field.)
All universities are run by politically correct, liberal, not-in-the-real-world apologists. Why do you not hear a hue and cry about the Blackhawks, Braves, Indians or others? Because pro teams don't give a crap about what some professor says about them. They care about their fans. Hell, even the Wizards are entertaining the idea of changing back to Bullets after being forced by the losers in Washington DC to change their name.
Based on reports of Fr. Wild's complicity in some of the Catholic Church scandals, I suggest we take a page from the Nashville hockey team and call ourselves the Predators. We could wear vestments for warm-ups and black and white uniforms.
Quote from: The Sultan of South Wayne on June 06, 2011, 07:54:14 PM
Sure, but do most people know anything about the Seminole nation other than its association with Florida State?
Look, I don't have a problem with most native nicknames, but the idea that people might not know that Native Americans even existed because of the NCAAs action is silly. First, I am fairly certain they teach more substantive stuff about Natives in the classroom. And second, most of the imagry used is at worst borderline offensive (Chief Illiniwek's last dance) and at best silly (Chief Osceloa riding out throwing a spear at mid-field.)
Aren't they tied together? I know my kids have asked "What's a Seminole" when we've watched FSU play. I told them to look it up, educate themselves....which they did. So there is one example of kids learning about a Native American tribe because of the FSU nickname and I would gather that has happened on more than a few occasions. People will not seek to know what exists if they don't even have a taste for that which they should pursue to begin with.
My point, hyperbole and all, is that our continued reduction of usage of some names that a SMALL handful of people find objectionable (yet these same people find other things as perfectly acceptable) will reduce the pool of people that are exposed to their very existence. I have no doubt of that. Sports fans throughout the USA know the Seminoles for a variety of reasons, and one of the major ones is their relationship with FSU. I'm sure students living in Florida are educated on the Seminole nation from Kindergarten through 12th grade, but the rest of the country isn't. As a result, they lose out. Here in California my kids are taught about the Gabrieleno and Mojave tribes mostly. It becomes a very localized teaching...again, the Seminoles are a smart people to continue this association with FSU that makes their tribal name known throughout the country and not just in Florida and Oklahoma.
There is no reason why a name cannot be used respectfully that preserves dignity and can also be used as a proud nickname of a sports team.
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on June 06, 2011, 08:16:12 PM
There is no reason why a name cannot be used respectfully that preserves dignity and can also be used as a proud nickname of a sports team.
Proof posiyive that you can be spot on, succinct and borderline eloquent. I knew you had it in you.
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on June 06, 2011, 08:16:12 PM
There is no reason why a name cannot be used respectfully that preserves dignity and can also be used as a proud nickname of a sports team.
I wholeheartedly agree with you.
However, I just don't think it is educationally important in the grand scheme of things. I don't know more about the Seminole nation because of Florida State...I don't know more about Ireland because of Notre Dame...I don't know more about the Netherlands because of Hofstra. When you use hyperbole, it just weakens your argument.
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on June 06, 2011, 08:16:12 PM
There is no reason why a name cannot be used respectfully that preserves dignity and can also be used as a proud nickname of a sports team.
Amen.
Not to add fuel to the fire, but the whole "people know us as the Golden Eagles now" is a bit overstated. I have one of the gold Marquette Warriors shirts with 90s logo on it and I honestly get at least 1-2 comments every time I wear it without fail. I have other Marquette gear that usually doesn't elicit such a reaction. I was in Vegas this past weekend and wore it out one day. Honestly, in 4-5 hours, I got at least 10 "Warriors, hell yea" comments, high fives, and people wanting to know where it was. People love the Warriors.
I would embrace Marquette Warriors with the Eagle as the mascot, just like TallTitan's former avatar. And I never buy anything with the chicken on it, even for the kids.
It's a reasonable compromise.
Why don't they just change it back to the original name?
Warriors was created and forced upon everybody just like Golden Eagles.
Just sayin'.
So, you're down with the Pink Pigeons?
Quote from: 4everwarriors on June 07, 2011, 11:03:38 AM
So, you're down with the Pink Pigeons?
I'd wear that shirt.
It's ironic that if they changed the name to Warriors with a different image, there would bee less indian imagery out there then there is now.
Quote from: Henry Sugar on June 07, 2011, 10:51:56 AM
I would embrace Marquette Warriors with the Eagle as the mascot, just like TallTitan's former avatar. And I never buy anything with the chicken on it, even for the kids.
It's a reasonable compromise.
(http://i273.photobucket.com/albums/jj229/marquettetitan34/0ca7fc7015e231afd028aa3a9c72c01a_media_900x900.jpg)
Quote from: 2002MUalum on June 07, 2011, 10:55:48 AM
Why don't they just change it back to the original name?
Warriors was created and forced upon everybody just like Golden Eagles.
Just sayin'.
Being "forced" to eat a medium rare 2" thick ribeye is hardly the same thing as having a sh&t sandwich jammed down your throat.
Just sayin'.
My rational(IMHO) thought process leads me to conclude that this is about money and that is one of the things that really sticks in my throat about this, the board sold out.
Here is how I draw this conclusion, admittedly assumptions but I think reasonable ones:
-If you were to associate the Warriors nickname with the chicken hawk, the eagle becomes much more viable and the warriors is no longer associated with Native Americans (see Golden State). No one has yet presented evidence that this wouldn't happen.
-Merchandise sales would explode providing all sorts of money. I'd love to see the statistics on the sale of golden eagle merch versus mascot neutral merch. I'm betting its over well over 50% non-mascot otherwise there would be more stuff out with the eagle.
-Donations from the pro-warrior crowd would likely equal if not exceed lost donations from anti-warrior crowd(there is a caveat on this statement that I will get to).
-The status quo actually keeps the Native American imagery alive because it is seen, especially by college students as a form of rebellion. Like with anything else kids do, approve of it and the enthusiasm dwindles.
-There was no real outcry at the time to change it and very limited outcry against warriors as a result of the graduation speech that kicked this all up again.
-The only stated reason for not going back is that at least one person would be offended and we would not go back as long as it is offensive to someone.
So based on those assumptions, the only conclusion I can draw is there is some either on-going donation tied to not going back or some sort of significant/huge one-time donation that occurred in the past which was negotiated such that legally binds us from going back to warriors. In my mind, I view this as a bribe and I have a real issue with that. This seems to be the only way to balance out all the money and alumni rejoice that would come with a change back.
Whats more, since I think this to be true, I also find it very concerning that the board/Father Wild don't reveal this as the true reason. So basically, if I'm correct, they were bribed to change the name and are now lying to us about the real reason. If they feel morally sound on their decision they should reveal it, if not I feel like it de-legitimizes Marquette's ability to educate students about right and wrong.
Not saying I'm right, but I haven't seen anything that would change my opinion.
Quote from: JWags85 on June 07, 2011, 10:20:15 AM
Not to add fuel to the fire, but the whole "people know us as the Golden Eagles now" is a bit overstated. I have one of the gold Marquette Warriors shirts with 90s logo on it and I honestly get at least 1-2 comments every time I wear it without fail. I have other Marquette gear that usually doesn't elicit such a reaction. I was in Vegas this past weekend and wore it out one day. Honestly, in 4-5 hours, I got at least 10 "Warriors, hell yea" comments, high fives, and people wanting to know where it was. People love the Warriors.
When I lived in Madison for a summer, I wore my Warriors t-shirt often and probably had a similar response at least every other time I wore it. From the heart of buckyville.
Quote from: mu03eng on June 07, 2011, 01:01:20 PM
So based on those assumptions, the only conclusion I can draw is there is some either on-going donation tied to not going back or some sort of significant/huge one-time donation that occurred in the past which was negotiated such that legally binds us from going back to warriors. In my mind, I view this as a bribe and I have a real issue with that.
A bribe implies something dishonest or illegal. There was nothing of the sort going on with this.
MU could have simply turned down the donation but obviously felt that the long-term implications of accepting the gift were better than the long-term implications of ditching the Warrior name. I mean, when the University accepted naming its College of Arts & Sciences after Helen Way Klingler, was that a bribe too?
And the Board / Fr. Wild has no reason to release to anyone - not even an ethical one. They have a higher ethical obligation to keep confidential obligations confidential rather than release them to another party.
Quote from: The Sultan of South Wayne on June 07, 2011, 02:53:59 PM
A bribe implies something dishonest or illegal. There was nothing of the sort going on with this.
MU could have simply turned down the donation but obviously felt that the long-term implications of accepting the gift were better than the long-term implications of ditching the Warrior name. I mean, when the University accepted naming its College of Arts & Sciences after Helen Way Klingler, was that a bribe too?
And the Board / Fr. Wild has no reason to release to anyone - not even an ethical one. They have a higher ethical obligation to keep confidential obligations confidential rather than release them to another party.
While ordinarily I would agree with you, however then why trot out these clearly untrue reasons for the name change? If they can't reveal the reason for the change don't make one up. To lie about it is what takes it to the bribe level for me, if you can't be honest about your reasons, by definition you are dishonest. Its kind of like the Weiner thing....its not so much the action but the lying.
And you speak as if you know, which galls me further. So it is absolutely a money thing, and that bothers me, they pretend its a principal thing and it seems to not be at all. In my book no matter how good the cause the ends don't justify the means.
Quote from: JWags85 on June 07, 2011, 10:20:15 AM
Not to add fuel to the fire, but the whole "people know us as the Golden Eagles now" is a bit overstated. I have one of the gold Marquette Warriors shirts with 90s logo on it and I honestly get at least 1-2 comments every time I wear it without fail. I have other Marquette gear that usually doesn't elicit such a reaction. I was in Vegas this past weekend and wore it out one day. Honestly, in 4-5 hours, I got at least 10 "Warriors, hell yea" comments, high fives, and people wanting to know where it was. People love the Warriors.
Hey I was there last weekend too but I ignored you specifically because you were wearing a warriors shirt . . .
What were you there for?? I think we brought the hot weather home because it's colder there now!
Quote from: mu03eng on June 07, 2011, 09:21:11 PM
While ordinarily I would agree with you, however then why trot out these clearly untrue reasons for the name change? If they can't reveal the reason for the change don't make one up. To lie about it is what takes it to the bribe level for me, if you can't be honest about your reasons, by definition you are dishonest. Its kind of like the Weiner thing....its not so much the action but the lying.
Have they lied? It is possible that they truly believe that the Warrior nickname runs counter to what the Jesuits believe on this issue WHILE ALSO running counter to an agreement they have with a donor.
Quote from: mu03eng on June 07, 2011, 09:21:11 PM
And you speak as if you know, which galls me further.
I know what has been implied...that the nickname issue is tied to the Valley Fields project and the Potowanomi Tribe.
Quote from: The Sultan of South Wayne on June 08, 2011, 07:53:19 AM
Have they lied? It is possible that they truly believe that the Warrior nickname runs counter to what the Jesuits believe on this issue WHILE ALSO running counter to an agreement they have with a donor.
Well the Jesuit on MU's seal has a cross in his belt that looks like a sword!!!
/backs away slowly
Quote from: The Sultan of South Wayne on June 08, 2011, 07:53:19 AM
Have they lied? It is possible that they truly believe that the Warrior nickname runs counter to what the Jesuits believe on this issue WHILE ALSO running counter to an agreement they have with a donor.
I agree it is possible, and this is where our opinions diverge, I don't think they believe what they are saying. It just feels to coincidental that they believe this but they don't take action until they get some value for it. IMHO its a case of character revealed.
Who's up for having a bunch of Marquette Warriors t-shirts screened and going to Potowatomi this weekend? ;D
Go Warriors!
Quote from: rugbydrummer on June 07, 2011, 10:06:38 PM
Hey I was there last weekend too but I ignored you specifically because you were wearing a warriors shirt . . .
What were you there for?? I think we brought the hot weather home because it's colder there now!
Just for the hell of it. My dad and his company were there for a convention and it seemed like a good weekend to go out, so my roommate and I flew out. Thursday and Friday nights were probably the most perfect weather you could ask for in Vegas.