Did you see Gibson posterize Wade. Sweet! >:(
Quote from: classof70 on May 15, 2011, 09:54:38 PM
Did you see Gibson posterize Wade. Sweet! >:(
And how about Gibson's monster tip dunk in the 4th quarter? Final 18 minutes was all Bulls.
Really pains me to root against Wade but...
(http://cdn3.sbnation.com/fan_shot_images/195064/230231_10100696810188715_12437000_63701588_6071227_n.jpg)
Edit: Source- http://www.blogabull.com/2011/5/15/2172912/welcome-to-your-kodak-moment-dwayne-wade#comments
(http://i.imgur.com/p9LgW.gif)
http://i.imgur.com/p9LgW.gif
Dwyane did not get the memo. Taj can go upstairs!
Who would have guessed that the two best dunks of that game would come from Taj Gibson?
DWade clearly learned move that from I4.
WOW a 6'10 Guy dunked on a 6'4 guy 8-)
Call me unimpressed.
Heat win the series in 6. I fully expected the Heat to lose game one, as the Bulls were going to feed of all the energy and what not. The Heat will win games 2,3,4. Lose game 5. Win game 6
I don't think Game 1 was a result of energy. I think the Bulls fundamentally executed better on both ends of the floor. In fact, they may have had too much energy to start the game and that is why they turned the ball over and got down early. When they settled down and did what they have done all season, they were the better team.
Miami just doesn't have the depth this year. Once they have some pieces in place to build around James and Wade, they are going to be great. But those two are going to have to log too many minutes while the Bulls can keep bringing in players.
QuoteHeat win the series in 6. I fully expected the Heat to lose game one, as the Bulls were going to feed of all the energy and what not. The Heat will win games 2,3,4. Lose game 5. Win game 6
The Heat have no bench and no bigs. Rose will get the Heat into foul trouble early in game 2. The Heat will need James Jones and/or Bibby to step up if they are to have any chance in this series. When the Bulls put Korver in the game and Wade was chasing him around in the 3rd quarter he was exhausted. Too much depth, Bulls in 5!
Wade and Lebron were gassed at the end of the game. The Bulls bench with Deng were taking care of the Heat's starters in the 4th while the Bulls starters were getting a rest.
I don't think the Bulls bench will stay as hot as they were last night, but unless someone on the Heat's bench is able to contribute so the big three can get a rest, the Bulls will continue to win the 3rd and 4th quarters.
The Bulls didn't pull away until the second half when Wade and Lebron were tired.
Quote from: The Sultan of South Wayne on May 16, 2011, 12:09:37 PM
I don't think Game 1 was a result of energy. I think the Bulls fundamentally executed better on both ends of the floor. In fact, they may have had too much energy to start the game and that is why they turned the ball over and got down early. When they settled down and did what they have done all season, they were the better team.
Miami just doesn't have the depth this year. Once they have some pieces in place to build around James and Wade, they are going to be great. But those two are going to have to log too many minutes while the Bulls can keep bringing in players.
Agree with the game analysis, maybe not the Heat's future.
They gave up a ton of draft in acquiring Bosh and LeBron and the next CBA could wreak havoc on their ability to add decent players through free agency.
In 2012-13, they have $67.6 million tied up on seven players. The next year - when the NBA wants to install a hard cap - it's $71.1 million on six players.
With a hard cap - or even harder cap - it could get really ugly on South Beach.
Wade just tweeted:
QuoteI had 2 laugh at ths..I was playing my oldest son Zaire on his nerf rim & he dunked & said Gibson while screaming..L2MS Kids u gotta luv em
Quote from: Pakuni on May 16, 2011, 12:35:27 PM
Agree with the game analysis, maybe not the Heat's future.
They gave up a ton of draft in acquiring Bosh and LeBron and the next CBA could wreak havoc on their ability to add decent players through free agency.
In 2012-13, they have $67.6 million tied up on seven players. The next year - when the NBA wants to install a hard cap - it's $71.1 million on six players.
With a hard cap - or even harder cap - it could get really ugly on South Beach.
Their mistake was signing Bosh, especially for the max. He's not a "max" player. He's a guy who can put up big numbers on mediocre teams. They could have brought in 2-3 solid roles players with that money and been better off. I actually wouldn't be surprised if they tried to move Bosh in the next couple years.
Bulls in 7
What was strange about the Bosh signing is that it is so un-Riley like. Nothing he hates more than a soft big-man.
Quote from: The Sultan of South Wayne on May 16, 2011, 12:58:53 PM
What was strange about the Bosh signing is that it is so un-Riley like. Nothing he hates more than a soft big-man.
Signing Bosh may have been necessary to signing LeBron.
To Merritt's point ... you've got to wonder whether Bosh can even be traded at this point. As you say, he's not a max contract player. And with a new CBA in the offing, peddling a guy due to earn $19 million, $20.5 million and $22 million in the last three years of his deal (at which point he'll be 32 with a lot of basketball mileage) won't be so easy.
Oh wait - the bulls have to do that 3 more times.
Quote from: mviale on May 16, 2011, 02:11:14 PM
Oh wait - the bulls have to do that 3 more times.
So far this season the Bulls have won all four matchups against the Heat.
Quote from: KenoshaWarrior on May 16, 2011, 12:02:07 PM
WOW a 6'10 Guy dunked on a 6'4 guy 8-)
Call me unimpressed.
Heat win the series in 6. I fully expected the Heat to lose game one, as the Bulls were going to feed of all the energy and what not. The Heat will win games 2,3,4. Lose game 5. Win game 6
You don't win by 21 against the Heat by feeding off energy. I think it was more defense, offensive rebounding and only committing one turnover in the second half. Side note: I love how everyone that picked the Heat to win the series is getting defensive now and claiming they fully expected this to happen in the first game. Really? You fully expected the Heat to be completely dominated and it doesn't change your outlook at all?
The Bulls are a bad matchup for the Heat. Quick scoring PG's and solid interior defense are their weakness. The Heat also do not have a penetrating PG and a lot of big defensive big men, which in turn hurts the Bulls. The Bulls have very quick rotations, but a PG can make them pay by causing the bigs to get out of position.
The scariest thing about the Bulls is that only Deng scored better than he should have or usually does. No one else really hit any crazy shots. Noah was 4-14, Bogans 1-4, Korver 1-3, and Watson 1-4. There is going to be a game where these guys start hitting shots. Rose also did not have to really do anything all that special either.
They wasted a 30 point Bosh game too. Another bad sign for Miami is that they shot 47% and the Bulls only shot 43%, but the Bulls crushed them.
Unless the Celtics get to switch with the Bulls, I'd say that the Heat are in trouble in a seven game series.
Quote from: windyplayer on May 16, 2011, 04:32:57 PM
You don't win by 21 against the Heat by feeding off energy. I think it was more defense, offensive rebounding and only committing one turnover in the second half. Side note: I love how everyone that picked the Heat to win the series is getting defensive now and claiming they fully expected this to happen in the first game. Really? You fully expected the Heat to be completely dominated and it doesn't change your outlook at all?
+1
The Heat are the most talented team in the league and they would exploit matchups with a lot of teams. The Bulls are just a tough matchup. The Heat will ultimately do better than Indiana and Atlanta by pushing the Bulls to seven most likely, but Indiana and Atlanta do all of the things that hurt the Bulls.
On the other hand, Philly has nothing that hurts the Heat and a Rondo injury and Shaq and Perkins not playing means that the Celtics don't do anything that hurts the Heat either.
People did not really consider the matchups when they read into how the teams looked in the first two rounds.
Quote from: KenoshaWarrior on May 16, 2011, 12:02:07 PM
WOW a 6'10 Guy dunked on a 6'4 guy 8-)
Call me unimpressed.
Heat win the series in 6. I fully expected the Heat to lose game one, as the Bulls were going to feed of all the energy and what not. The Heat will win games 2,3,4. Lose game 5. Win game 6
OK, what would impress you? Because that dunk was pretty sick, as was Taj's later tip dunk. The heat don't have anywhere near the depth the Bulls do. The Bulls can put 9-10 competent players on the floor, the Heat can't even put 5 out there. Wade, James and Bosh will be run ragged by the Bulls always throwing fresh legs at them I think. James was guarded by what 5 different guys yesterday?
But really the bottom line is the Bulls completely dominated the Heat. The line up that has been most effective for the Heat can't match up with the Bulls because they have such athletic big men and such good perimeter defenders.
I'm a Bulls fan and expected them to win (after all the Heat haven't shown they can beat the Bulls yet) but I didn't expect them to run the Heat out of the gym. Call me impressed.
Quote from: KenoshaWarrior on May 16, 2011, 12:02:07 PM
WOW a 6'10 Guy dunked on a 6'4 guy 8-)
Call me unimpressed.
Heat win the series in 6. I fully expected the Heat to lose game one, as the Bulls were going to feed of all the energy and what not. The Heat will win games 2,3,4. Lose game 5. Win game 6
Ohhhh, we're here to impress you. Well, then, here you go... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tOOeMg7eqYM (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tOOeMg7eqYM)
The Bulls are just a terrible match up for the Heat. I'd be surprised if this goes more than 5 games. Miami simply can not play their style and tempo against the Bulls. Dominating the boards and applying pressure/trapping on the perimeter, the Heat are flustered offensively. Worst part for the Heat last night is as the Bulls were pulling away, the majority of their starters were on the bench in the start of the 4th last night. Bulls depth is too much for the Heat.
To Pakuni's point, the Heat are in major trouble going forward. Hard cap is coming, as fascinating as it was to see how the Heat filled out their roster this past season, it'll be even more fascinating to see what they do going forward. Same with the Knicks.
This meeting between the two was a double advantage for the Bulls.
1. The home court in the packed United Center
2. The Bulls was so excited to finish the game fast to help out with setting up for the Oprah show. Gave them a treat at the end. ;D
Plain and simple, the Bulls are the better team. Miami has the best single player in the series (James) and Wade is neck-and-neck with Rose, but when it comes to the rest of the team and benches, Chicago wins pretty handily. Miami will likely be the better team in 2-3 years (unless the Bulls add Howard) but right now, the Bulls have more top to bottom.
The only way Miami wins this series is if they pound the crap out of Rose, and they don't really have the thug types that Indy has. I can't see them taking 4 of 6 against Chicago after losing 4 of 4 so far this year. Within the next 2 weeks, Miami will be replaying their home loss to Chicago by crying after losing to the Bulls yet again.
I still think the Heat will win this series, I just think the Heat are too talented at the top for the Bulls.
The fact that everyone on this board is saying they would rather have Taj Gibson than Wade is beyond assanine.
Wade got dunked on... So WHAT!!!
Allen Iverson crossed over Jordan so by your logic you would all rather have Iverson?
Starks Dunked on Pippen so you would rather have Starks?
Quote from: KenoshaWarrior on May 16, 2011, 08:01:27 PM
The fact that everyone on this board is saying they would rather have Taj Gibson than Wade is beyond assanine.
The FACT is that not everyone is saying they'd rather have Taj Gibson than Wade. I don't even think ANYBODY is saying it.
Quote from: KenoshaWarrior on May 16, 2011, 08:01:27 PM
The fact that everyone on this board is saying they would rather have Taj Gibson than Wade is beyond assanine.
Wade got dunked on... So WHAT!!!
Allen Iverson crossed over Jordan so by your logic you would all rather have Iverson?
Starks Dunked on Pippen so you would rather have Starks?
Wait who ever said that??????
Quote from: KenoshaWarrior on May 16, 2011, 08:01:27 PM
The fact that everyone on this board is saying they would rather have Taj Gibson than Wade is beyond assanine.
Wade got dunked on... So WHAT!!!
Allen Iverson crossed over Jordan so by your logic you would all rather have Iverson?
Starks Dunked on Pippen so you would rather have Starks?
This is the dumbest post I've seen on this site in months, and considering nomorebuycks was here quite awhile, that's saying something.
I just re-read the thread. No one said they would rather have Wade than Gibson. Not one person. Wade got dunked on, looked monstrous for Gibson, Bulls won the game, many people think they'll win the series, but that's it. No one said "ZOMG!!! Gibson iz SOOOOOOOO mcuh better then Dwayne Wade LOLZ!"
Try reading before you post, numpty.
Quote from: windyplayer on May 16, 2011, 04:32:57 PM
You don't win by 21 against the Heat by feeding off energy. I think it was more defense, offensive rebounding and only committing one turnover in the second half. Side note: I love how everyone that picked the Heat to win the series is getting defensive now and claiming they fully expected this to happen in the first game. Really? You fully expected the Heat to be completely dominated and it doesn't change your outlook at all?
Could not resist
LeBron says hi, ManCow fans.
Chalk me up as unimpressed with those dunks.
The "posterize" dunk .. the only reason we're talking about it is because Wade was between the guy and the basket. If Wade wasn't there, it was the kind of dunk you see with frequency: a running guy takes off from 6-8 feet away, jumps high, and dunks. Why does it make it awesome when you insert an unprepared defender in the middle, who is run into?
I'd say the tip dunk is .. nicer, as it adds an element of perfect timing of a jump, a rebound, perfect placement of a hand and enough hang time to bring the ball to the rim.
I find dunks over-rated. The level of difficulty of a bang bang catch and shoot 3 pointer with a guy in your face is so much higher. Or a Dominic James drive the lane crash to the floor circus shot that goes in.
I know what you mean, but "posterize dunks" are simply fun. Pippen's over Ewing maybe one of my favorite NBA moments of all time. (Which not only was an amazing dunk, but stepping over Ewing and telling Spike to sit his ass down just made it so enjoyable.)
+1 for Pippen's......just a bad ass play
hate d-rose, joakim noah, and the bulls. love wade. Heat win in 6.
Quote from: lawwarrior12 on May 19, 2011, 04:37:10 PM
hate d-rose, joakim noah, and the bulls. love wade. Heat win in 6.
There's something seriously wrong with someone who says they hate Derrick Rose.
Seriously, I would think D Rose is pretty tough to even dislike, much hate.
D-Rose is a cheat.
His hands are as dirty as Calipari's.
Quote from: buckchuckler on May 19, 2011, 05:05:43 PM
Seriously, I would think D Rose is pretty tough to even dislike, much hate.
Yeah, why hate someone who didn't take his own entrance exam.
Quote from: Hards_Alumni on May 19, 2011, 08:15:12 PM
D-Rose is a cheat.
His hands are as dirty as Calipari's.
Pffft.
You really give a flying you-know-what about an SAT score for a kid who had no interest or need for college?
You not only care, but it drives you to hate someone?
He's a good kid, stays out of trouble, respects the game, respects his coaches, teammates and opponents, always plays hard, is unselfish, doesn't showboat, shows humility, gives back to his community ... but he cheated on a standardized test!!!
Talk about false outrage.
Quote from: Pakuni on May 19, 2011, 08:40:26 PM
Pffft.
You really give a flying you-know-what about an SAT score for a kid who had no interest or need for college?
You not only care, but it drives you to hate someone?
He's a good kid, stays out of trouble, respects the game, respects his coaches, teammates and opponents, always plays hard, is unselfish, doesn't showboat, shows humility, gives back to his community ... but he cheated on a standardized test!!!
Talk about false outrage.
So it is ok to cheat or break the rules in some circumstances but not others? There is no such thing as selective integrity, you either have it and deserve respect for it or you don't and deserve nothing. Hate is a pretty strong word for what I feel about Derrick Rose but I don't think much of him and all the other things you describe above aren't going to change that.
Quote from: ATL MU Warrior on May 19, 2011, 09:12:11 PM
So it is ok to cheat or break the rules in some circumstances but not others? There is no such thing as selective integrity, you either have it and deserve respect for it or you don't and deserve nothing.
Yes, that's exactly what I said. Cheating is awesome.
I suppose I'm just not perfect enough, nor do I view the world through such a stark black-and-white prism, that I dismiss 99 percent of what's good about a person over a relatively minor (and yes, it's exceptionally minor) act with which I disagree.
Good to know you never once cheated on homework, exceeded the speed limit, strolled across the street at somewhere other than the crosswalk, told a fib, rolled through a stop sign, had a beer before you were 21, downloaded a song without paying or returned a library book late.
After all, there's no such thing as selective integrity.
Quote from: Pakuni on May 19, 2011, 09:21:20 PM
Yes, that's exactly what I said. Cheating is awesome.
I suppose I'm just not perfect enough, nor do I view the world through such a stark black-and-white prism, that I dismiss 99 percent of what's good about a person over a relatively minor (and yes, it's exceptionally minor) act with which I disagree.
Good to know you never once cheated on homework, exceeded the speed limit, strolled across the street at somewhere other than the crosswalk, told a fib, rolled through a stop sign, had a beer before you were 21, downloaded a song without paying or returned a library book late.
After all, there's no such thing as selective integrity.
Yeah, I did some (ok most) of those things. Equating any of that with what he did is a loooooong stretch in my opinion.
How is it that what he did is so minor in your eyes? After all, (whether it's right or not) he's a role model to millions of young kids who are basically being told that it doesn't matter what you do as long as you can play ball. There are no repercussions...go ahead and cheat to get to the top, why not?
Quote from: ATL MU Warrior on May 19, 2011, 09:36:57 PM
Yeah, I did some (ok most) of those things. Equating any of that with what he did is a loooooong stretch in my opinion.
OK, that's your opinion. IMO, potentially dangerous and/or criminal acts like speeding, underage drinking, stealing songs, etc. are far more harmful to society than violating an NCAA rule or cheating on a standardized test that was - in his situation - entirely irrelevant. But reasonable people can differ.
Quote from: Pakuni on May 19, 2011, 10:35:40 PM
OK, that's your opinion. IMO, potentially dangerous and/or criminal acts like speeding, underage drinking, stealing songs, etc. are far more harmful to society than violating an NCAA rule or cheating on a standardized test that was - in his situation - entirely irrelevant. But reasonable people can differ.
I generally agree with you hear, but he didn't just cheat on a standardized test...HE FLAT OUT DIDN'T TAKE IT AND HAD SOMEONE ELSE TAKE IT FOR HIM. He committed FRAUD.
Was he busy making a poster of Wade, is that why he couldn't take the test?
Quote from: KenoshaWarrior on May 19, 2011, 02:15:45 PMBut if the Bulls dont beat them this year they will not beat them for years to come.
Really? So having the league's best point guard, center, and bench (once the Howard trade goes through) won't give them a chance at beating the Heat? Let's be honest, it's not the Big 3, it's the Big 2 and Bosh. He's not at that level. The Bulls will counter with Rose, Howard, Deng (at least as good as Bosh) and a better supporting cast.
Granted, Howard isn't a done deal, but the Bulls can offer 3 first round picks over the next two years and an All-Star-level replacement in Noah (or Boozer, please take Boozer), which offers more draft fodder than Utah got for Deron Williams or Denver got for Carmelo Anthony.
Add Howard to the Bulls, and this may be the Heat's last best shot at beating them for years to come.
And while I get the notion of getting down on D-Rose, seriously, it's done and over. The guy has been the very definition of a model citizen since coming back to Chicago. He's the hardest working superstar in the NBA (just look at his 3-point improvement) and is probably one of the best role models and poster boys the NBA could possibly have. The entrance exam is a non-issue in regards to his pro career.
Quote from: brewcity77 on May 19, 2011, 10:54:29 PM
Really? So having the league's best point guard, center, and bench (once the Howard trade goes through) won't give them a chance at beating the Heat? Let's be honest, it's not the Big 3, it's the Big 2 and Bosh. He's not at that level. The Bulls will counter with Rose, Howard, Deng (at least as good as Bosh) and a better supporting cast.
Granted, Howard isn't a done deal, but the Bulls can offer 3 first round picks over the next two years and an All-Star-level replacement in Noah (or Boozer, please take Boozer), which offers more draft fodder than Utah got for Deron Williams or Denver got for Carmelo Anthony.
Add Howard to the Bulls, and this may be the Heat's last best shot at beating them for years to come.
And while I get the notion of getting down on D-Rose, seriously, it's done and over. The guy has been the very definition of a model citizen since coming back to Chicago. He's the hardest working superstar in the NBA (just look at his 3-point improvement) and is probably one of the best role models and poster boys the NBA could possibly have. The entrance exam is a non-issue in regards to his pro career.
Maybe....but be careful or you are sure to be disappointed. The leagues are chock full of crazy actions by these guys that rarely get to light in the papers but those in the business hear the stories all the time from the teams, the agents, etc. Not saying I've heard one story at all about Rose, sure he's a great kid, but I've heard so much stuff over the years about some of these guys that are supposedly "clean living" and didn't want to believe it...sure enough when 3, 4, 5 years all that stuff came true when they were finally caught.
Be careful when pinning labels of "model citizen" to these athletes because it's like a voodoo doll curse \ jinx.
As for Howard to the Bulls....Laker fans make the same claims as if his locker is already setup with Howard's name on it. LOL BRING ON THE LOCKOUT!!!
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on May 20, 2011, 12:23:50 AMBe careful when pinning labels of "model citizen" to these athletes because it's like a voodoo doll curse \ jinx.
As for Howard to the Bulls....Laker fans make the same claims as if his locker is already setup with Howard's name on it. LOL BRING ON THE LOCKOUT!!!
Well, I did say "since coming back to Chicago". I'm not saying something couldn't go wrong, but Rose has kept his nose clean, done plenty for the community, and busted his ass to become the youngest MVP in history. Skeletons may show up in his closet in the future, but so far, no city could ask for a better face of a franchise.
Regarding Howard, who knows what will happen, but I'm just saying that it's premature to think the Bulls won't beat the Heat if they don't do it this year. When they restructure the salaries, Miami may have to break up the Big 2+1 before they even win a single title.
Quote from: ATL MU Warrior on May 19, 2011, 09:12:11 PM
So it is ok to cheat or break the rules in some circumstances but not others? There is no such thing as selective integrity, you either have it and deserve respect for it or you don't and deserve nothing. Hate is a pretty strong word for what I feel about Derrick Rose but I don't think much of him and all the other things you describe above aren't going to change that.
So Im guessing you never speed, roll stop signs, or J walk, because that's breaking the law, and you wouldn't want to be accused of having selective integrity, right? Its crap that the league makes guys go to school to protect themselves from their own stupidity. And if that's really the reason you hate him, do you even watch the NBA or NFL? Those leagues have to be just bursting with guys you hate.
And seriously, he was an 18 year old kid. Would you want to be judged for the rest of your life for any of the things you did when you were 18?
And for the role model bit, he has done so much good that the test is never a factor when people here think about Rose. He is a great role model for kids here to look up to.
Maybe the test is a reason to hate him, fine. But he seems like a great humble kid that plays hard all the time, respects the game, listens to his coach, keeps his teammates in line, and is exactly the kind of player that I can really enjoy cheering for.
Quote from: buckchuckler on May 20, 2011, 08:56:51 AM
So Im guessing you never speed, roll stop signs, or J walk, because that's breaking the law, and you wouldn't want to be accused of having selective integrity, right? Its crap that the league makes guys go to school to protect themselves from their own stupidity. And if that's really the reason you hate him, do you even watch the NBA or NFL? Those leagues have to be just bursting with guys you hate.
Personally, I stopped watching the NFL for that reason. It started with Vick, but looking around, it just seems like that sport breeds thugs and miscreants. From Carruth to Ray Lewis to Chris Henry to Roethlisburger to Tank Johnson to Pac-Man to Plaxico to Stallworth...the list goes on.
Other sports have their idiots and bad guys, but it seems there isn't a team in the NFL that doesn't have 2-3 guys I really can't stand to watch. And while Rose may have blatantly cheated on an exam, it's not like he's a rapist, murderer, or accessory to the fact. He was never carrying around a gun (that we know of). Yes, what he did was bad, but to try to say he's some horrible individual because he cheated on a test when probably every person on this site has cheated on a quiz or test (granted not to that level) seems pretty hypocritical. Save your rage for someone who's actually a bad guy, not someone who cheated on a test just so he could keep up his game for a year before they'd let him play in the pros.
If anyone is to blame for the issue with Rose and his tests it is the NBA. Rose and many like him had no business in college basketball. He was good enough to go straight to the NBA after high school and should have been allowed to do so. By making players spend 1 year in college you are asking for these types of situations: illegal test results, cash payments, housing deals for parents, cars, etc.
Quote from: buckchuckler on May 20, 2011, 09:01:41 AM
And seriously, he was an 18 year old kid. Would you want to be judged for the rest of your life for any of the things you did when you were 18?
An 18-year-old kid, it's worth noting, who had the weight of having to raise his entire family out of a gang- and crime-ridden neighborhood on his shoulders, we should add. If it cheating on an SAT is what it takes to get my family out of a place like Englewood a year (or more) sooner, I'd cheat also.
I don't think anybody suggests cheating is a good thing, but in this case it's a victimless offense and forgivable, if not outright excusable, under the circumstances.
Quote from: MU B2002 on May 20, 2011, 09:16:01 AM
If anyone is to blame for the issue with Rose and his tests it is the NBA. Rose and many like him had no business in college basketball. He was good enough to go straight to the NBA after high school and should have been allowed to do so. By making players spend 1 year in college you are asking for these types of situations: illegal test results, cash payments, housing deals for parents, cars, etc.
+1.
Not to mention that it makes a complete mockery of the supposed student-athlete. Many one-and-dones go to class in the fall just enough to stay eligible for the second semester, and then never see the inside of a classroom again.
Quote from: Pakuni on May 20, 2011, 09:21:25 AM
+1.
Not to mention that it makes a complete mockery of the supposed student-athlete. Many one-and-dones go to class in the fall just enough to stay eligible for the second semester, and then never see the inside of a classroom again.
I think there are a lot bigger problems that make a mockery of student athletes. Honestly, how many one and dones are there a year? Also, who is to say that a player who isn't good enough right out of high school but is good enough to go after their sophomore or junior year isn't going to do the same thing?
Since we're talking student athletes...
Did Lazar ever graduate? Anyone know if Jimmy F. Butler stopped going to classes?
Quote from: Henry Sugar on May 20, 2011, 10:33:22 AMSince we're talking student athletes...
Did Lazar ever graduate? Anyone know if Jimmy F. Butler stopped going to classes?
Not sure if he walked, but I'm pretty sure someone said Lazar's name was in the program last year. Not 100% on that. And JFB finished his requirements in the Fall semester. Even if he stopped going to classes, he had the credits to graduate.
how old and crotchety are you?
Quote from: mu_hilltopper on May 19, 2011, 08:48:48 AM
Chalk me up as unimpressed with those dunks.
The "posterize" dunk .. the only reason we're talking about it is because Wade was between the guy and the basket. Yes, 90% of posterizing someone is timing. If Wade wasn't there, But He was there. it was the kind of dunk you see with frequency: a running guy takes off from 6-8 feet away, jumps high, and dunks. What dunk doesn't that describe? Why does it make it awesome when you insert an unprepared defender in the middle, who is run into? 1) Because it doesn't happen very often. 2) It just does.
I'd say the tip dunk is .. nicer, as it adds an element of perfect timing of a jump, a rebound, perfect placement of a hand and enough hang time to bring the ball to the rim.
I find dunks over-rated. The level of difficulty of a bang bang catch and shoot 3 pointer with a guy in your face is so much higher. Or a Dominic James drive the lane crash to the floor circus shot that goes in. Well start a "Wade Hits 3 with Hand in his Face" thread. People will love it!
Quote from: MU B2002 on May 20, 2011, 09:16:01 AM
If anyone is to blame for the issue with Rose and his tests it is the NBA. Rose and many like him had no business in college basketball. He was good enough to go straight to the NBA after high school and should have been allowed to do so. By making players spend 1 year in college you are asking for these types of situations: illegal test results, cash payments, housing deals for parents, cars, etc.
I will agree with you that the rule governing early entry into the NBA is wrong. If they're good enough, players should be able to turn pro whenever.
That said, there are many rules/laws in life that people might consider unfair. Committing fraud in order to circumvent them is wrong.
Quote from: MU B2002 on May 20, 2011, 09:16:01 AM
If anyone is to blame for the issue with Rose and his tests it is the NBA. Rose and many like him had no business in college basketball. He was good enough to go straight to the NBA after high school and should have been allowed to do so. By making players spend 1 year in college you are asking for these types of situations: illegal test results, cash payments, housing deals for parents, cars, etc.
This is such a poor argument. This is like blaming the guy who sold a robber the gun for the crime he went and committed.
Rose had a choice to follow the rules or not, and he chose not to. What I find truly hypocritical of you Bulls fans that defend him, but rip apart John Cal in another thread. I give Brandon Jennings a lot of respect for doing it the way that guys like Rose SHOULD HAVE done. If you can't get into school, go play in Europe for a year.
I know he is your boy, but don't give me that crap that he is innocent.
Quote from: RawdogDX on May 20, 2011, 12:23:54 PM
how old and crotchety are you?
...said the young and easily impressed. :-*
Quote from: Hards_Alumni on May 20, 2011, 01:50:57 PM
This is such a poor argument. This is like blaming the guy who sold a robber the gun for the crime he went and committed.
Rose had a choice to follow the rules or not, and he chose not to. What I find truly hypocritical of you Bulls fans that defend him, but rip apart John Cal in another thread. I give Brandon Jennings a lot of respect for doing it the way that guys like Rose SHOULD HAVE done. If you can't get into school, go play in Europe for a year.
I know he is your boy, but don't give me that crap that he is innocent.
My boy!? That's like saying Fat Tire is your beer.
I never said he wasinnocent. I believe the NBA has a policy that helped to create this type of situation, but that doesn't mean I think what Rose did is ok.
Heat fan.
Can't stand the bulls.
Quote from: MU B2002 on May 20, 2011, 02:14:39 PM
My boy!? That's like saying Fat Tire is your beer.
I never said he wasinnocent. I believe the NBA has a policy that helped to create this type of situation, but that doesn't mean I think what Rose did is ok.
Heat fan.
Can't stand the bulls.
I apologize, I should have formatted that better. The last line wasn't intended for you specifically, it was for all the Bulls fans here.
I understand the policy is bad (should be 3 years out of High School, imo), but that does not absolve Rose of wrong doing. You said if anyone was to blame it was the NBA... which is not what you are saying now?
Quote from: Hards_Alumni on May 20, 2011, 01:50:57 PM
This is such a poor argument. This is like blaming the guy who sold a robber the gun for the crime he went and committed.
Speaking of poor arguments ...
To the best of my knowledge, selling someone a gun does not create a set of circumstances requiring its purchaser to commit a robbery.
This discriminatory rule, however, does force kids who lack the interest and/or aptitude to go to college into a situation by which doing what Rose did can be the best and most reasonable option.
Nobody in this entire thread has said or even suggested he is "innocent." What's suggested, however, at least by me, is that under his circumstances, it was a completely reasonable and rational thing to do. You'll forgive me if I don't rip an 18-year-old trying to get himself and his family out of the ghetto for -gasp! - cheating on an irrelevant standardized test (in, I'll note again, was a completely victimless "crime.")
I'm frankly pretty surprised some people think a poorly thought out NCAA rule matters more than a person's (and family's) well-being and an individual's right to earn a legal living in his own country.
Quote from: Hards_Alumni on May 20, 2011, 02:23:12 PM
You said if anyone was to blame it was the NBA... which is not what you are saying now?
My initial post said
"If anyone is to blame for the issue with Rose and his tests it is the NBA."
My second post said
"I believe the NBA has a policy that helped to create this type of situation, but that doesn't mean I think what Rose did is ok."
I maintained the same position that I felt the NBA created the situation. My second post just added that I felt what Rose did was wrong.
Anyway, it is kind of a meaningless argument at this point, since according to history Rose never played in college.
Quote from: Pakuni on May 20, 2011, 02:27:16 PM
Speaking of poor arguments ...
To the best of my knowledge, selling someone a gun does not create a set of circumstances requiring its purchaser to commit a robbery.
This discriminatory rule, however, does force kids who lack the interest and/or aptitude to go to college into a situation by which doing what Rose did can be the best and most reasonable option.
Nobody in this entire thread has said or even suggested he is "innocent." What's suggested, however, at least by me, is that under his circumstances, it was a completely reasonable and rational thing to do. You'll forgive me if I don't rip an 18-year-old trying to get himself and his family out of the ghetto for -gasp! - cheating on an irrelevant standardized test (in, I'll note again, was a completely victimless "crime.")
I'm frankly pretty surprised some people think a poorly thought out NCAA rule matters more than a person's (and family's) well-being and an individual's right to earn a legal living in his own country.
Pakuni, it was an analogy... It was used to prove a point which it did.
But I am just happy to understand what is accceptable cheating and what isn't for you. He had options, which he weighed, and chose to cheat. I'm sure there would have been 50 teams in Europe tripping over themselves to have Rose on their team. If you think its fine and dandy that he cheated thats fine. I just think it speaks to his character, and everyone else seems to think it is irrelevant. I'm not looking to change the minds of people who have their minds made up already anyway.
He is a cheat in my book and always will be.
and MU B2002, I was asking a legitimate question, I wasn't trying to be sarcastic. Just to be clear, you are saying they are both to blame now. Thats fine, and I agree. But lets be clear; the NCAA and NBA has a set of rules (flawed as they may be) and Rose ignored them.
Quote from: Pakuni on May 20, 2011, 02:27:16 PM
Speaking of poor arguments ...
To the best of my knowledge, selling someone a gun does not create a set of circumstances requiring its purchaser to commit a robbery.
This discriminatory rule, however, does force kids who lack the interest and/or aptitude to go to college into a situation by which doing what Rose did can be the best and most reasonable option.
Nobody in this entire thread has said or even suggested he is "innocent." What's suggested, however, at least by me, is that under his circumstances, it was a completely reasonable and rational thing to do. You'll forgive me if I don't rip an 18-year-old trying to get himself and his family out of the ghetto for -gasp! - cheating on an irrelevant standardized test (in, I'll note again, was a completely victimless "crime.")
I'm frankly pretty surprised some people think a poorly thought out NCAA rule matters more than a person's (and family's) well-being and an individual's right to earn a legal living in his own country.
It's not like Rose is the first or last kid since the NBA implemented the silly one-and-done rule who wanted to "get himself and his family out the ghetto." Many others have managed to take the test (sometimes repeatedly) and get a passing score. Rose chose a different approach. I like the kid, and I'm not arguing that his decision wasn't "completely reasonable and rational," but he
did cheat. Many other kids faced with precisely the same situation, as unjust as it might be, have chosen to not compromise their integrity (although I'm sure there are many who we don't know about). Don't misunderstand, I'm really not ripping the kid, but I really don't believe that he made a "this is the only way to get my family out of the ghetto" decision. He took the easy way out, and that comes with a price (a fairly slight blemish on his reputation). I suspect he's not losing any sleep over that "price," and I'm not losing any over what he did.
Quote from: Hards_Alumni on May 20, 2011, 01:50:57 PM
This is such a poor argument. This is like blaming the guy who sold a robber the gun for the crime he went and committed.
Rose had a choice to follow the rules or not, and he chose not to. What I find truly hypocritical of you Bulls fans that defend him, but rip apart John Cal in another thread. I give Brandon Jennings a lot of respect for doing it the way that guys like Rose SHOULD HAVE done. If you can't get into school, go play in Europe for a year.
I know he is your boy, but don't give me that crap that he is innocent.
The Calipari analogy is just as bad as your gun analogy. Calapari has a history of cheating. As pakuni pointed out, doesn't have the same situation around him as Rose. Calapari is also in a different position from Rose. Cal could also likely do just fine without the cheating. Where for Rose the only other option for Rose was to move half way around the world. Wow, I can't believe someone wouldn't want to jump to do that.
I'm a Bulls fan and feel Rose's misdeeds in college (rather getting in to) were pretty well addressed when Memphis' season was stricken from the books. When you look at how he's carried himself since joining the Bulls, there's little to question.
It's not like he was an accessory to murder or tortured animals. For me, Rose's misdeeds were simply a lot more forgiveable. Especially when you balance his actions since college with the one act to get him in.
Quote from: buckchuckler on May 20, 2011, 04:56:00 PM
The Calipari analogy is just as bad as your gun analogy. Calapari has a history of cheating. As pakuni pointed out, doesn't have the same situation around him as Rose. Calapari is also in a different position from Rose. Cal could also likely do just fine without the cheating. Where for Rose the only other option for Rose was to move half way around the world. Wow, I can't believe someone wouldn't want to jump to do that.
Fairly hard for you know anything about Rose's past, and there is a lot of time to go in his future.
How about this for an analogy. You lie on your resume to get an internship, and because of that internship, you get a great job. You've been good at your paying job and haven't lied since, does that make it okay?
The only other option? What a joke. Try hard in school. He isn't that dumb. He knew he could get away with it, and he did. No punishment for him. He could have done the honorable thing and played in Europe if he wanted to have the honor of getting the big bucks in the NBA without getting into college.
Quote from: brewcity77 on May 20, 2011, 05:16:01 PM
I'm a Bulls fan and feel Rose's misdeeds in college (rather getting in to) were pretty well addressed when Memphis' season was stricken from the books. When you look at how he's carried himself since joining the Bulls, there's little to question.
It's not like he was an accessory to murder or tortured animals. For me, Rose's misdeeds were simply a lot more forgiveable. Especially when you balance his actions since college with the one act to get him in.
How does the fact the Memphis' season was stricken from the books punish anybody but Memphis and the kids on the team that actually tried to do the right thing? Absolutely nothing to do with Rose. He got off scott free.
Quote from: buckchuckler on May 20, 2011, 09:01:41 AM
And seriously, he was an 18 year old kid. Would you want to be judged for the rest of your life for any of the things you did when you were 18?
And for the role model bit, he has done so much good that the test is never a factor when people here think about Rose. He is a great role model for kids here to look up to.
Maybe the test is a reason to hate him, fine. But he seems like a great humble kid that plays hard all the time, respects the game, listens to his coach, keeps his teammates in line, and is exactly the kind of player that I can really enjoy cheering for.
If he played for the Heat, Pistons, Lakers, anyone not named Bulls would you have a different POV? More than likely, yes....and that's what you are seeing and hearing about here. People love to defend "their city's guy" and let bygones be bygones.
18 years old or not, when you know some guy NOT named Derrick Rose is sitting in a classroom somewhere taking a test and writing DERRICK ROSE on the test for you, that's a pretty big deal to just excuse because he was 18 years old. My 9 year old knows that's wrong, an 18 year old sure as hell does.
You say he's a good role model...is he out telling kids they shouldn't cheat on their standardized tests? Wasn't he just as much a role model for those kids looking to skirt the system....HEY, Derrick Rose did it why shouldn't I!!
Works both ways. I'd love to see Rose come out and go to schools and tell kids to take the tests for real, and not pay someone else to do it for them. If he is, hats off to him but I haven't read where that's part of any of his role model playing.
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on May 20, 2011, 08:05:10 PM
If he played for the Heat, Pistons, Lakers, anyone not named Bulls would you have a different POV? More than likely, yes....and that's what you are seeing and hearing about here. People love to defend "their city's guy" and let bygones be bygones.
18 years old or not, when you know some guy NOT named Derrick Rose is sitting in a classroom somewhere taking a test and writing DERRICK ROSE on the test for you, that's a pretty big deal to just excuse because he was 18 years old. My 9 year old knows that's wrong, an 18 year old sure as hell does.
I'm sorry, but when you look at what other athletes are out there doing and when you look at what Rose did, I just don't get how people can have this much venom for him. Yes, he did something wrong to get into college, but people are acting like he raped someone or was involved in a shooting.
You may not like applying "model citizen" as a tag to someone, but it sure seems easy to attach the villain tag. Save it for someone who actually did something worthy of being considered a crime, like Roethlisburger, Vick, Burress, or Arenas. Yeah, he screwed up, it was wrong, he shouldn't have done it, but since he came to Chicago, you couldn't ask for much more in a superstar. Is it so wrong to try to judge him by his actions now rather than by his actions then?
Quote from: brewcity77 on May 21, 2011, 07:22:08 AM
I'm sorry, but when you look at what other athletes are out there doing and when you look at what Rose did, I just don't get how people can have this much venom for him. Yes, he did something wrong to get into college, but people are acting like he raped someone or was involved in a shooting.
You may not like applying "model citizen" as a tag to someone, but it sure seems easy to attach the villain tag. Save it for someone who actually did something worthy of being considered a crime, like Roethlisburger, Vick, Burress, or Arenas. Yeah, he screwed up, it was wrong, he shouldn't have done it, but since he came to Chicago, you couldn't ask for much more in a superstar. Is it so wrong to try to judge him by his actions now rather than by his actions then?
this says it all :-\
Quote from: ATL MU Warrior on May 21, 2011, 08:12:35 AMthis says it all :-\
I fail to see how that's a bad thing ?-(
Quote from: brewcity77 on May 21, 2011, 09:28:12 AM
I fail to see how that's a bad thing ?-(
Because it is extremely convenient.
Mike Vick has been a great guy since going to Philadelphia.
So we should just forget about what happened before?
see?
Quote from: Hards_Alumni on May 21, 2011, 10:14:34 AM
Because it is extremely convenient.
Mike Vick has been a great guy since going to Philadelphia.
So we should just forget about what happened before?
see?
Cheating on a test and torturing and murdering defenseless animals are two completely different things. In no way, shape, or form are Derrick Rose and Michael Vick comparable.
Quote from: brewcity77 on May 21, 2011, 12:40:52 PM
Cheating on a test and torturing and murdering defenseless animals are two completely different things. In no way, shape, or form are Derrick Rose and Michael Vick comparable.
I see that you missed the point.
As has been said though, your fandom blinds you to past transgressions
And maybe your anti fan-dom blinds you from redemption.
Quote from: brewcity77 on May 21, 2011, 07:22:08 AM
I'm sorry, but when you look at what other athletes are out there doing and when you look at what Rose did, I just don't get how people can have this much venom for him. Yes, he did something wrong to get into college, but people are acting like he raped someone or was involved in a shooting.
You may not like applying "model citizen" as a tag to someone, but it sure seems easy to attach the villain tag. Save it for someone who actually did something worthy of being considered a crime, like Roethlisburger, Vick, Burress, or Arenas. Yeah, he screwed up, it was wrong, he shouldn't have done it, but since he came to Chicago, you couldn't ask for much more in a superstar. Is it so wrong to try to judge him by his actions now rather than by his actions then?
I get what you are saying but that doesn't excuse it. Sure, you can always go with the "he's not as bad as the other guys" defense, but that can get into slippery slope territory pretty quick.
I thought my question was valid...if he's a "model citizen" and kids look up to him, shouldn't he be preaching what he did was flat our wrong and make that a central point of his message to kids. Don't cheat, don't commit fraud, etc? Not that it matters, they'll all see that Rose got away with it and believe it's worth the risk. I know his transgressions were in college, but he fraud is fraud and the guy was punished not one iota. AMERICA baby. :o