At this point, with one open schollie to go for 2011-12....MU will:
- Have players from 10 different states or provinces
- 5 players from west of the Mississippi River
- 2 from West Coast states
- 2 from above the 45th parallel
- 7 from the South where JC has roots also
- Only 1 from the traditional BE area of the NE (walk-on) (2 if you count transplanted PG Wilson)
- And only 2 from the Midwest--MU's traditional base (2 WI and 0 from IL)
On the other hand, Crean could have up to 13 (schollies + walk-ons) within a couple hour drive of Btown. Wow, has MU's recruiting profile changed. Likewise you can see that CTC is trying to lock-up his geography--mainly from competing B10 schools. And, the BE originals compete with themselves in their traditional geographies for the same talent pool.
Milwaukee: The Cosmopolitan Center of NCAA Basketball!
Very interesting.
The talent in Indiana vs Wisconsin is a big contributor this as well.
This is very encouraging! I am very happy that we have moved beyond the mindset of "having to lock up Chicago". Really good for the program.
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on April 15, 2011, 06:38:16 PM
Very interesting.
The talent in Indiana vs Wisconsin is a big contributor this as well.
Which I believe was a BIG reason why TC left for IU - not just due to its history in college basketball, but from the perspective of there being a lot more talent in Indiana than WI. Plus IU is the flagship school of the state, with a footbal program, etc. Safer/easier bet to be successful at IU than MU.
Crean can eat sheet. He just couldn't get it done, knew it, and bailed. Myself and a handful of others saw through his transparent, self-promoting rhetoric and celebrate his departure on a daily basis.
Quote from: Ners on April 15, 2011, 07:10:31 PM
Which I believe was a BIG reason why TC left for IU - not just due to its history in college basketball, but from the perspective of there being a lot more talent in Indiana than WI. Plus IU is the flagship school of the state, with a footbal program, etc. Safer/easier bet to be successful at IU than MU.
I don't think anyone would argue with you. Easy decision to make...more money and easier to get talent.
Looking at where MU's players are from currently, that can be a good thing or a bad thing. On one hand it shows a national reach....on the other hand it may also show how far and deep one has to go to get talent to MU. It's nice to have a "base" which used to be Illinois and Wisconsin....those seem to note be in the picture of late as much, which could be of concern if a certain coach isn't here for the next decade. I hope we continue to recruit Wisconsin and Illinois, I suspect we will....hope we land a few of those kids as well....coaches move on but MU is locked in stone in Milwaukee and that will always be home whomever the coach is.
Quote from: 4everwarriors on April 15, 2011, 07:32:21 PM
Crean can eat sheet. He just couldn't get it done, knew it, and bailed. Myself and a handful of others saw through his transparent, self-promoting rhetoric and celebrate his departure on a daily basis.
I sure hope our current coach "can't get it done" like he "couldn't get it done"...I'd be thrilled for another repeat of "can't getting it done" Final Four trip, multiple NBA players, etc.
Here's to CAN'T GETTING IT DONE!! Go Buzz...Don't Get It Done!! LOL
As a comparison from basketball-successful private schools, Duke has three from NC on their roster (counting the Plumlees as IN). Georgetown has 8 from the area. Stanford has two from the extended Bay area, 5 from all of Cali. Notre Dame has three from Chicago (couple hour drive). Syracuse had 8 within a similar radius including Joseph from Montreal.
Quote from: 4everwarriors on April 15, 2011, 07:32:21 PM
Crean can eat sheet. He just couldn't get it done, knew it, and bailed. Myself and a handful of others saw through his transparent, self-promoting rhetoric and celebrate his departure on a daily basis.
Yeah, just like you saw Bruce as a cheat, eh?
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on April 15, 2011, 08:07:30 PM
I don't think anyone would argue with you. Easy decision to make...more money and easier to get talent.
Looking at where MU's players are from currently, that can be a good thing or a bad thing. On one hand it shows a national reach....on the other hand it may also show how far and deep one has to go to get talent to MU. It's nice to have a "base" which used to be Illinois and Wisconsin....those seem to note be in the picture of late as much, which could be of concern if a certain coach isn't here for the next decade. I hope we continue to recruit Wisconsin and Illinois, I suspect we will....hope we land a few of those kids as well....coaches move on but MU is locked in stone in Milwaukee and that will always be home whomever the coach is.
One area we can agree on is that we both realize it is fairly challenging to recruit to Marquette. Some would like to think it is easy to get talent to MU, but our history suggets otherwise. MU has more going for it now than it maybe it ever has (save for the influence and draw/reach of Al McGuire), but that still does not make it a slam dunk school to recruit to..
Every coach has to put in his time recruiting. How much hand holding did did Roy Williams do to get JP Tokoto? Roy was up in Wisconsin at least four times for Tokoto. While a relentless hound dog and excellent sales person like Buzz is invaluable in getting top recruits, Marquette is a very good product (tradition, facilities, academics, national exposure, past and current players) making the Buzz salesmanship and Marquette product a winning combination! (and I do appreciate Crean, but let's move on)
Quote from: ATWizJr on April 15, 2011, 11:15:31 PM
Yeah, just like you saw Bruce as a cheat, eh?
This just in:
ALL coaches cheat. Some are more blatant than others. Not condoning it, just the plain truth.
Quote from: 4everwarriors on April 16, 2011, 06:49:24 AM
This just in:
ALL coaches cheat. Some are more blatant than others. Not condoning it, just the plain truth.
You are a true visionary and way on the inside. I am in awe.
And back to "Changing Recruiting Profile"
The vast majority of posters think this has a high probability of becoming yet another Buzz vs. Crean thread in the very near future.
Quote from: leever on April 18, 2011, 10:08:35 AM
The vast majority of posters think this has a high probability of becoming yet another Buzz vs. Crean thread in the very near future.
Actually, to me, this is one of the few times where this is relevant--but not in a right or wrong way, just pholiosophically. Buzz has gone way more national than Crean did here. And, Crean now sits on a goldmine of highly rated local talent that he needs to close on to be successful, which he now is after he ash-canned McLeod, his lead recruiter. Funny thing is, it has been the local kids who have transferred out under Buzz for various reasons (Maymon, Smith, Christopherson, Mbwake). I mentioned this before, but the last time MU went dark in Chicago with recruits was the NIT championship team (1969-70)--over 30 seasons now. Pretty interesting to compare (to some anyway).
Quote from: marqptm on April 18, 2011, 11:23:36 AM
Junior is the only one.
Derrick Wilson - Anchorage, Alaska
http://espn.go.com/mens-college-basketball/recruiting/player/_/id/54699/derrick-wilson
Quote from: marqptm on April 18, 2011, 11:23:36 AM
Junior is the only one.
Toronto is about 43 degrees...below the 45th.
Forgot Derrick was from Alaska.
So we do have 1.
Quote from: SaintPaulWarrior on April 18, 2011, 11:26:35 AM
Toronto is about 43 degrees...below the 45th.
Forgot Derrick was from Alaska.
So we do have 1.
Nice! Good catch.
Quote from: marqptm on April 18, 2011, 11:29:37 AM
Nice! Good catch.
Well I live about 25 feet, literally, south of the 45th parallel and I know I live farther north than Toronto.
Quote from: SaintPaulWarrior on April 18, 2011, 11:32:57 AM
Well I live about 25 feet, literally, south of the 45th parallel and I know I live farther north than Toronto.
You got a little marker out in the backyard? Any North Koreans invading?
Quote from: Dr. Blackheart on April 18, 2011, 10:47:36 AMActually, to me, this is one of the few times where this is relevant--but not in a right or wrong way, just pholiosophically. Buzz has gone way more national than Crean did here. And, Crean now sits on a goldmine of highly rated local talent that he needs to close on to be successful, which he now is after he ash-canned McLeod, his lead recruiter. Funny thing is, it has been the local kids who have transferred out under Buzz for various reasons (Maymon, Smith, Christopherson, Mbwake). I mentioned this before, but the last time MU went dark in Chicago with recruits was the NIT championship team (1969-70)--over 30 seasons now. Pretty interesting to compare (to some anyway).
Agreed completely, and while it's clearly a different route to success (Crean usually stays local, Buzz travels), if Buzz can match Crean's biggest accomplishment on the court, it could transform us into the type of program we all dream of being.
I think one of the reasons Crean never was able to capitalize on his Final Four run was because of his myopic recruiting focus. Look at most of his best players at the time, Wade was from Chicago, Jackson from Milwaukee, Diener and Novak were both Wisconsin kids. Mason, Merritt, Townsend, Sanders, Chapman, most of our recruits were either Milwaukee and Chicago, and we filled out the roster with guys from Minnesota (Fitzgerald) and Michigan (Grimm), still Midwesterners. When TC did go outside his area, it usually didn't end well (Carlton Christian, Karon Bradley). Even the Three Amigos were all Midwest players, it seems like Lazar was the first really successful Crean recruit from outside his normal area at Marquette.
I DO NOT MEAN THIS AS A CONDEMNATION OF CREAN!Just wanted to say that before I continued. Crean does a good job at locking up his local area. He brought in a lot of guys here from our region, and he seems to be doing a good job of putting a giant "closed" sign on the Indiana borders when it comes to opposing coaches coming in. However, when the talent well runs dry in the area, it's hard to capitalize on that type of recruiting strategy. Somewhere like Indiana, where you have a talent-rich state sandwiched between the likes of Ohio, Kentucky, and Illinois, you will probably be okay. But in Wisconsin, that strategy can kill you if you miss out on a few Chicago kids and Wisconsin isn't producing.
What this new recruiting profile could mean is that Buzz could turn us into a powerhouse because he doesn't restrict himself locally. If we go on a Final Four run in 2 years, it will be on the backs of not only Wisconsinites (Blue and Wilson) but also guys from California (Anderson), Texas (Otule and Williams), Canada (Cadougan), Georgia (Jones), Virginia (Gardner), West Virginia (Mayo), and Alaska (Wilson). Buzz has opened doors across the country, and if we can walk into a California gym, or a Texas gym, or a Georgia gym, and say "I have a Final Four with a guy just like you" I have to imagine it will help recruiting and will keep us from running into a situation where we are closed out of recruits because we don't have a broad enough base.
When you look at the truly elite programs, they have a national recruiting base regardless of their location. UNC, Duke, Kansas, UCLA, when they walk into a gym, they have a chance regardless of whether they're in Florida, Wisconsin, Washington (State or DC), or Nevada. If there's a high-major prospect, they can garner interest. Buzz's ability to travel shows that if he has the success behind him, he should be able to do the same thing here at Marquette.
Quote from: marqptm on April 18, 2011, 11:33:45 AM
You got a little marker out in the backyard? Any North Koreans invading?
Actually there are markers all over the country....one is around the corner from me.
http://www.wurlington-bros.com/Museum/45th/RosevilleMN.html
http://www.wurlington-bros.com/Museum/45th/NAmer.html
Quote from: SaintPaulWarrior on April 18, 2011, 11:32:57 AM
Well I live about 25 feet, literally, south of the 45th parallel and I know I live farther north than Toronto.
Ok, Scoop geography nerds, you got me....however, the 45th parallel is also a euphemism for the original border legal border between the US and Canada that has stuck. Of course, now you will call me out on that as Alaska was owned by Russia and not Canada. So I will restate my fact: This is the first time that MU has had two recruits at the same time who lived north of the contiguous 48 states. Good? :-*
Quote from: Dr. Blackheart on April 18, 2011, 12:03:22 PM
Ok, Scoop geography nerds, you got me....however, the 45th parallel is also a euphemism for the original border legal border between the US and Canada that has stuck. Of course, now you will call me out on that as Alaska was owned by Russia and not Canada. So I will restate my fact: This is the first time that MU has had two recruits at the same time who lived north of the contiguous 48 states. Good? :-*
Very far from a geography nerd here, believe me. I just know that I live on the 45th parallel and I also know that I am quite a distance north of Toronto....that is the only reason I knew of this.
Quote from: Dr. Blackheart on April 18, 2011, 10:47:36 AM
Actually, to me, this is one of the few times where this is relevant--but not in a right or wrong way, just pholiosophically. Buzz has gone way more national than Crean did here. And, Crean now sits on a goldmine of highly rated local talent that he needs to close on to be successful, which he now is after he ash-canned McLeod, his lead recruiter. Funny thing is, it has been the local kids who have transferred out under Buzz for various reasons (Maymon, Smith, Christopherson, Mbwake). I mentioned this before, but the last time MU went dark in Chicago with recruits was the NIT championship team (1969-70)--over 30 seasons now. Pretty interesting to compare (to some anyway).
And that would be some intelligent commentary on recruiting which is totally relevant - - - and not at all where I thought this was headed. Good save!
Quote from: SaintPaulWarrior on April 18, 2011, 12:12:51 PM
Very far from a geography nerd here, believe me. I just know that I live on the 45th parallel and I also know that I am quite a distance north of Toronto....that is the only reason I knew of this.
I visited north of the 45th parallel one time. Pretty scary.
Quote from: wildbill sb on April 18, 2011, 02:08:47 PM
I visited north of the 45th parallel one time. Pretty scary.
Yeah the cities of Minneapolis, Seattle and St. Paul are pretty scary. Not to mention Paris, Dublin, London and Amsterdam. Among many others. Very scary.