Quote from: HoopsMalone on March 21, 2011, 10:13:29 PM
-You will also notice that Tom "wait until next year" Crean might have locked up another 5 star in 2012. At this point, good luck to him I guess
Wow, I'm one of the few who liked Crean and Buzz for different reasons, but couldn't Crean have gotten MU any more five stars or a good big man when he can pull in these three 5-stars this year and next?
#20 Cody Zeller F 6'11"
#10 Hanner Perea F 6'8"
#17 Kevin Ferrell G 5'11"
I know there are more 5-stars in Indiana than Wisconsin but wow.
Certainly not to ignore that discovering D. Wade is a much better get than any 5-star, but I am concerned that we have only been able to grab one out of 205 five-stars available since we joined the Big East.
BTW, I'm dumb on recruiting. Are some of these 5-stars really still uncommitted?
#1 Andre Drummond C 6'9" Oakdale
#3 Shabazz Muhammad G 6'5" Las Vegas
#5 Kyle Anderson G 6'8" Jersey City
#6 Brandon Ashley F 6'8" Oakland
#7 Ricardo Ledo G 6'5" Fitchburg
#8 DaJuan Coleman C 6'8" Dewitt
#9 Jarnell Stokes F 6'7" Memphis
#13 Kaleb Tarczewski C 7'0" Southborough
#15 Wanaah Bail F 6'8" Rosenberg
#18 Archie Goodwin G 6'4" Little Rock
#19 Perry Ellis F 6'8" Wichita
#20 Shaquille Goodwin F 6'8" Decatur
Quote from: bamamarquettefan on March 31, 2011, 01:49:03 PM
Wow, I'm one of the few who liked Crean and Buzz for different reasons, but couldn't Crean have gotten MU any more five stars or a good big man when he can pull in these three 5-stars this year and next?
#20 Cody Zeller F 6'11"
#10 Hanner Perea F 6'8"
#17 Kevin Ferrell G 5'11"
I know there are more 5-stars in Indiana than Wisconsin but wow.
Certainly not to ignore that discovering D. Wade is a much better get than any 5-star, but I am concerned that we have only been able to grab one out of 205 five-stars available since we joined the Big East.
Before the deal was struck with the Indiana Elite, Crean successfully recruited 0 5-stars, a couple of 4-stars and a bunch of 3-stars (or lower). Now he's choosing which 5-stars he wants. Anyone not connecting the dots isn't paying any attention. Only the Al Davis, "Just Win Baby" segment of Hoosier fans aren't in "full squirm" mode.
Quote from: Lennys Tap on March 31, 2011, 02:06:27 PM
Before the deal was struck with the Indiana Elite, Crean successfully recruited 0 5-stars, a couple of 4-stars and a bunch of 3-stars (or lower). Now he's choosing which 5-stars he wants. Anyone not connecting the dots isn't paying any attention. Only the Al Davis, "Just Win Baby" segment of Hoosier fans aren't in "full squirm" mode.
I don't know everything about what happened at IU. But from everything I am reading the hiring of that AAU coach was legal. I think only Parrea even played for that coach. I could be wrong.
It does seem fishy, but it is within the rules it sounds.
Quote from: HoopsMalone on March 21, 2011, 10:13:29 PM
Tough time in the coaching change, but former prospect BJ Young may not go to AK per this source:http://eye-on-college-basketball.blogs.cbssports.com/mcc/blogs/entry/26283066/28021570
Maybe Buzz can get back on him.
-You will also notice that Tom "wait until next year" Crean might have locked up another 5 star in 2012. At this point, good luck to him I guess
-Villanova added a center which will be weird since they usually have as much size as we do. Jay Wright made up for his weak finish to the season.
- No MU fans should be wishing Tom Crean good luck.
- The only way you can make up for a weak finish to one season is by having a very strong finish in the next season.
Quote from: Lennys Tap on March 31, 2011, 02:06:27 PM
Before the deal was struck with the Indiana Elite, Crean successfully recruited 0 5-stars, a couple of 4-stars and a bunch of 3-stars (or lower). Now he's choosing which 5-stars he wants. Anyone not connecting the dots isn't paying any attention. Only the Al Davis, "Just Win Baby" segment of Hoosier fans aren't in "full squirm" mode.
Is this what we are going to do now?
First, MU fans hate Crean for leaving. Lots of threads about that.
Then MU fans take pleasure in his lack of success. Lots of threads for 3 seasons about that.
Now, when he is starting to have some success, we imply that he's cheating? Is this what we are going to be doing for the next few years? Finding any chink in the armor and then using it to "prove" TC is bad?
Quote from: 2002MUalum on March 31, 2011, 02:53:04 PM
Is this what we are going to do now?
First, MU fans hate Crean for leaving. Lots of threads about that.
Then MU fans take pleasure in his lack of success. Lots of threads for 3 seasons about that.
Now, when he is starting to have some success, we imply that he's cheating? Is this what we are going to be doing for the next few years? Finding any chink in the armor and then using it to "prove" TC is bad?
The proof is already there. Just watch him try to coach when his team is down by 1 with less than a minute to go.
Crean is doing what he needs to do. As long as he locks down the borders and gets the best in-state talent to IU, he can do well. If he gets the occasional good player from out of state, that is just gravy.
Any chance we can rename this thread "Tom Crean Recruiting Discussion, with a gratuitous mention of BJ Young"?
Quote from: 2002MUalum on March 31, 2011, 02:53:04 PM
Is this what we are going to do now?
First, MU fans hate Crean for leaving. Lots of threads about that.
Then MU fans take pleasure in his lack of success. Lots of threads for 3 seasons about that.
Now, when he is starting to have some success, we imply that he's cheating? Is this what we are going to be doing for the next few years? Finding any chink in the armor and then using it to "prove" TC is bad?
1.I didn't and don't hate Crean for leaving. The manner in which he left was "character revealed" to some. Not to me. I thought he had proven himself a first class asshat long before he informed his players and employer he was gone via ESPN.
2.I admit that I derive some pleasure from his struggles. He's my least favorite coach in college basketball. If you (and others) have a coach out there you can't stand you probably root against him too. Only seems normal and I'll never criticize you for it.
3.Our most prolific poster regularly casts aspersions on our present coach, claiming unnamed sources tell him that Buzz is doing things that, while not illegal, make said poster "squirm". As long as he's posting that crap rest assured there will be people here pointing to TC's recruiting failures at IU prior to forming his unholy alliance with Indiana Elite-and how this technically legal (soon to not be, quite likely) deal is squirm worthy.
4.And to answer your first question last - yes.
Quote from: Stuckin1977 on March 31, 2011, 02:46:53 PM
- No MU fans should be wishing Tom Crean good luck.
- The only way you can make up for a weak finish to one season is by having a very strong finish in the next season.
So childish.
Quote from: HoopsMalone on March 31, 2011, 02:09:56 PM
I don't know everything about what happened at IU. But from everything I am reading the hiring of that AAU coach was legal. I think only Parrea even played for that coach. I could be wrong.
It does seem fishy, but it isWAS within the rules it sounds.
Fixed, what he did is no longer legal under NCAA rules.
A thread about a recruit we missed on and Alaska turns into a Crean thread. Sounds about right.
I actually think that Crean's stud class might not be the best thing for him. He would be better off with gradual success there in my opinion. I see him hyping it up too much for his own good. He will raise expectations too high and not meet them.
Quote from: 2002MUalum on March 31, 2011, 02:53:04 PMIs this what we are going to do now?
First, MU fans hate Crean for leaving. Lots of threads about that.
Then MU fans take pleasure in his lack of success. Lots of threads for 3 seasons about that.
Now, when he is starting to have some success, we imply that he's cheating? Is this what we are going to be doing for the next few years? Finding any chink in the armor and then using it to "prove" TC is bad?
+1,000,000,000,000
Seriously, who cares? TC made a decision to leave. He didn't go to a rival and before he left hired a great assistant who seems well on his way to being a pretty good coach. Without Crean, we have no Wade, no Final Four, no Three Amigos, and no Buzz. Anyone still obsessing over him at this point is acting like a petty, spoiled child. Let it go. He's gone, we're doing fine. Move on with your lives. Holding that bitterness can't be healthy.
Quote from: brewcity77 on March 31, 2011, 04:19:52 PM
+1,000,000,000,000
Seriously, who cares? TC made a decision to leave. He didn't go to a rival and before he left hired a great assistant who seems well on his way to being a pretty good coach. Without Crean, we have no Wade, no Final Four, no Three Amigos, and no Buzz. Anyone still obsessing over him at this point is acting like a petty, spoiled child. Let it go. He's gone, we're doing fine. Move on with your lives. Holding that bitterness can't be healthy.
I'll agree with all of that except for Wade. Crean caught lightning in a bottle by getting him, because DePaul basically told him "we don't have any room for you" which left MU as his next best option.
When Crean left, we lost 2 studs in Trevor Mbakwe and Tyshawn Taylor. He put us at risk of being in a serious hole, luckily we had 3 seniors and a junior who all went on to be in the top 10 all-time scorers at MU.
Quote from: Lennys Tap on March 31, 2011, 03:32:09 PM
1.I didn't and don't hate Crean for leaving. The manner in which he left was "character revealed" to some. Not to me. I thought he had proven himself a first class asshat long before he informed his players and employer he was gone via ESPN.
2.I admit that I derive some pleasure from his struggles. He's my least favorite coach in college basketball. If you (and others) have a coach out there you can't stand you probably root against him too. Only seems normal and I'll never criticize you for it.
3.Our most prolific poster regularly casts aspersions on our present coach, claiming unnamed sources tell him that Buzz is doing things that, while not illegal, make said poster "squirm". As long as he's posting that crap rest assured there will be people here pointing to TC's recruiting failures at IU prior to forming his unholy alliance with Indiana Elite-and how this technically legal (soon to not be, quite likely) deal is squirm worthy.
4.And to answer your first question last - yes.
Well, I'm sort of mad at your answers, but I asked for it, so it's my own fault.
I'm not sure what the obsession with TC is, but I guess it will never go away. If the guy loses, people will post here about it and laugh at him. If the guy wins, people will post here making accusations.
For whatever reason, it's never going to stop. I'll have to accept that.
Rage on my friends, RAGE F*CKING ON!!
Prediction:
In 2030, TC will be elected to the HOF (after 20+ seasons at IU), and somebody here will start a thread saying that TC owes it all to Wade, and just got lucky at IU.
The mods should put up a TC message board for those who are still interested.
Quote from: bamamarquettefan on March 31, 2011, 01:49:03 PM
Wow, I'm one of the few who liked Crean and Buzz for different reasons, but couldn't Crean have gotten MU any more five stars or a good big man when he can pull in these three 5-stars this year and next?
#20 Cody Zeller F 6'11"
#10 Hanner Perea F 6'8"
#17 Kevin Ferrell G 5'11"
I know there are more 5-stars in Indiana than Wisconsin but wow.
Certainly not to ignore that discovering D. Wade is a much better get than any 5-star, but I am concerned that we have only been able to grab one out of 205 five-stars available since we joined the Big East.
One of the reasons he left...tired of finishing brides maid for some of the 5 stars and he has an easier time getting them now.
Quote from: Lennys Tap on March 31, 2011, 02:06:27 PM
Before the deal was struck with the Indiana Elite, Crean successfully recruited 0 5-stars, a couple of 4-stars and a bunch of 3-stars (or lower). Now he's choosing which 5-stars he wants. Anyone not connecting the dots isn't paying any attention. Only the Al Davis, "Just Win Baby" segment of Hoosier fans aren't in "full squirm" mode.
What "deal" are you talking about. Indiana "Elite" has been part of Hoosiers basketball for almost three decades in various forms....please, explain the "deal". For history, when Bob Knight was around it was called Indiana Red and they later became Indiana Elite. So when Crean was what, 3 years old the "deal" was put into place?
::)
I still marvel at the treatment here of a coach that put us back on the map...yup, he was an asshat but we aren't here today without some of the accomplishments in the 2000's. I also marvel at the feigned outrage over him and virtually nothing over Majerus who left us in a complete lurch, nothing over KO who crapped on MU at every turn, etc. Character revealed indeed
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on March 31, 2011, 05:24:54 PM
I still marvel at the treatment here of a coach that put us back on the map...yup, he was an asshat
You shouldn't speak of Kevin O'Neill that way.
Brewcity77 , u sound as if your Dodds twin or Dodds using another name.
Quote from: Lennys Tap on March 31, 2011, 03:32:09 PM
3.Our most prolific poster regularly casts aspersions on our present coach, claiming unnamed sources tell him that Buzz is doing things that, while not illegal, make said poster "squirm". As long as he's posting that crap rest assured there will be people here pointing to TC's recruiting failures at IU prior to forming his unholy alliance with Indiana Elite-and how this technically legal (soon to not be, quite likely) deal is squirm worthy.
Define "regularly"? Is that like "vast majority"?
I don't like what he did with Newbill...neither did HBO Sports with Bryant Gumbel. It made squirm (and many others). It's not illegal, but it makes me squirm.
I don't like recruiting kids that have already verbally committed....it makes me squirm. It's not illegal, but it makes me squirm.
I don't like it when a kid is on scholarship at another program and encouraged to transfer to MU, even if it's through back channels. Sorry, that makes me squirm. Let the kid reach out to us
Etc, etc. Others have been discussed here already.
You can certainly be squirmed all you want about what's going on at IU, or Auburn in football, or Ohio State or whatever. It's a free country. Just as I have every right to feel squirmy about some of the stuff that has been discussed.
Maybe we should hire an asst video coordinator from an AAU program because word is that they are like bees to honey in terms of recruiting. You can't believe the number of high profile kids that want to play at a school because of the assistant video coordinator. It's all the rage, everyone is getting ready to do it.
Quote from: Pakuni on March 31, 2011, 05:31:42 PM
You shouldn't speak of Kevin O'Neill that way.
He kept the program from going to Loyola mode. He did not put us back on the map, not nationally anyway. A Final Four puts you back on the map. Big East invite puts you on the map. Leaving after just five years, complaining about your contract at every turn, getting drunk nightly at public bars while cheating on your wife for all to see....doesn't get you on the map....not the right one anyway.
well said Chico he couldn't hack it at MU so he took an easier route. I agree as he struggled at MU more often then not recruiting to have back to back good years.
Quote from: bamamarquettefan on March 31, 2011, 01:49:03 PM
Certainly not to ignore that discovering D. Wade is a much better get than any 5-star, but I am concerned that we have only been able to grab one out of 205 five-stars available since we joined the Big East.
I'm not going to diminish what Crean did to get Wade to Marquette. He was certainly a key player in having Wade come in as a prop 48. That said, he did not DISCOVER Wade for MU. Mike Deane was the first to contact Wade and it was Tim Buckley that convinced Crean to take a look at Wade.
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on March 31, 2011, 05:38:55 PM
He kept the program from going to Loyola mode. He did not put us back on the map, not nationally anyway. A Final Four puts you back on the map. Big East invite puts you on the map. Leaving after just five years, complaining about your contract at every turn, getting drunk nightly at public bars while cheating on your wife for all to see....doesn't get you on the map....not the right one anyway.
Hmmm .... so by these standards, Ben Howland didn't put Pitt basketball back "on the map" because he failed to get the team into a Final Four.
Billy Gillespie didn't put A&M basketball back on the mao because he didn't get them to a Final Four.
Obviously you would agree that Lavin hasn't put St. John's back on the map. Or Kevin Stallings at Vandy. Pete Gillen didn't put Xavier on the map.
It's almost as if you're narrowly tailoring your definition of "on the map" to suit an agenda.
As for all the rest, who cares? You vociferously defended a former coach who frequently made a drunken ass of himself, yet you bash O'Neill for some of the same behaviors?
Fact is, O'Neill did indeed put Marquette back on the map, taking over a program heading to oblivion and building it into one that would make the NCAA tournament four times in five years, gain entry to a good conference and lay the foundation of much of what's good about the program today.
That doesn't have to detract from what Crean accomplished, but O'Neill is the guy who saved MU basketball, not Crean.
Quote from: bamamarquettefan on March 31, 2011, 01:54:12 PM
BTW, I'm dumb on recruiting. Are some of these 5-stars really still uncommitted?
According to Chicos (when convenient), there are no 2012 kids that are committed, because they have not yet 'signed on the dotted line'.
Quote from: muball on March 31, 2011, 05:40:32 PM
well said Chico he couldn't hack it at MU so he took an easier route. I agree as he struggled at MU more often then not recruiting to have back to back good years.
Probably. Though I thought we had a number of good back to back years...3 straight NCAAs when he left and walk in the park 4th straight left for his predecessor. That seems like pretty good back to back years...or are you talking about recruiting? Tough to tell with you. You need to be clearer.
Quote from: Pakuni on March 31, 2011, 06:11:53 PM
Hmmm .... so by these standards, Ben Howland didn't put Pitt basketball back "on the map" because he failed to get the team into a Final Four.
Billy Gillespie didn't put A&M basketball back on the mao because he didn't get them to a Final Four.
Obviously you would agree that Lavin hasn't put St. John's back on the map. Or Kevin Stallings at Vandy. Pete Gillen didn't put Xavier on the map.
It's almost as if you're narrowly tailoring your definition of "on the map" to suit an agenda.
As for all the rest, who cares? You vociferously defended a former coach who frequently made a drunken ass of himself, yet you bash O'Neill for some of the same behaviors?
Fact is, O'Neill did indeed put Marquette back on the map, taking over a program heading to oblivion and building it into one that would make the NCAA tournament four times in five years, gain entry to a good conference and lay the foundation of much of what's good about the program today.
That doesn't have to detract from what Crean accomplished, but O'Neill is the guy who saved MU basketball, not Crean.
A lot of ways to put a team on the map....consistently winning will do it as well, not just a Final Four. George Mason was put on the map because of a Final Four. VCU was put on a map because of a Final Four. Other schools are on the map for consistently being good. Your example is rather absurd.
I don't know, I guess I don't think a 5 year run that included the 2nd worst record for MU in almost 50 years among his 5 years, as back on the map. He kept us from Loyolahood, which I am forever grateful. He got us to a Sweet 16 one year...that was awesome. Nationally did that get us back "on the map" or was it really more of a regional play? I think you know the answer in your head and heart if you look hard enough. If we were back on the map as you state, we sure got off the map in a hurry...partly because of how he departed.
Ben Howland winning two straight Big East titles and two straight Sweet 16's helped Pitt get there, but I'd argue Jamie Dixon has done more to put them back on the map than Howland has. Howland also did his work in the Big East, not the MCC where we got no pub at all...part of being PUT BACK ON THE MAP means people have to notice.
Lavin...doing it in the media capital of the world with ESPN in your back yard and in the Big East...that's a little different than doing it in Milwaukee in the MCC. Sorry, that's just reality. Quite frankly, if Lavin was at another school like, say, Washington State or Oregon State, I'd argue absolutely he hasn't put them on the map. St. John's is the beneficiary of who they are, where they play and reside and the help they get from the NY media. Sorry, that's just reality. Apples to oranges. You also don't see Lavin complaining about his contract every 20 minutes and leaving 5 minutes after being bounced from the tournament.
Did you ever think that KO's work was slightly undone by how fast he wanted to get out of here? By putting a Tennessee sweatshirt on before he even left MU? "Hey, look what I did to put you guys on the map and now I'm leaving 10 seconds later because I don't like my contract, etc, etc...I'm outta here"
Vanderbilt...lol. Are they really "on the map" nationally? Most people couldn't tell you where Vanderbilt is if you spotted them a map of Tennessee and told them the city ended in "ville"
Pete Gillen at Xavier....that's an interesting analogy. To this day they are still worried about people calling them EGGSAVIOR...I guess being put on the map couldn't get America to understand what to call them. Sorry, don't buy that they were put on the map. They were in the MCC when he was there. They had a nice program that went to the NCAAs often but didn't do a ton...no deep run. Gonzaga, they made some deep runs which truly put them on the map with Mark Few and Monson. Xavier was a nice little program that one a game in the tournament here and there under Gillen, maybe one Sweet 16 but nothing crazy. EGGSAVIER.
Quote from: Jay Bee on March 31, 2011, 06:25:51 PM
According to Chicos (when convenient), there are no 2012 kids that are committed, because they have not yet 'signed on the dotted line'.
No one is committed until you sign the line which is dotted.
LeDaryl Billingsley Marquette University
Motreale Clark Marquette University
Vander Blue University of Wisconsin
Derrick Williams University of Arizona
Etc, etc.
The list must be 100 strong in the last decade....players back out of commitments because coaches leave, because schools are on probation, because they change their mind. I'm sorry, but that means someone is NOT committed until they sign. This isn't hard nor a convenient answer...it's reality.
I'm newer here...but in this thread, "Pakuni' gets it and this Chicos person has no idea what he is talking about. Some of the comments/evaluations about other programs are laughable.
As for the topic of this thread...BJ Young is a talented player that will stay at Arkansas. Surprised so many have thrown out his name on the Marquette boards as he attended three different high schools in his home town, has had multiple discipline and academic challenges. Although his friendship with Brad Beal, has helped serve him well.
recruiting Chico he was overated on being consistant. Couldnt compete with the big dogs and wasnt up to the challenge of the BEast so he took and easier leaque and hotter area. Just saying his I am tough thing is quite phony and people see thru it.
Are we really interested in a BJ on the heels of these "shocking" revelations about sexual harrassment?
I'm not alone....."on the map"...for the second time. Al obviously put us on there nationally the first time.
http://espn.go.com/page2/s/caple/030401.html
http://www.nba.com/pacers/news/memories_diener_090403.html
http://articles.courant.com/2002-02-10/features/0202102271_1_east-carolina-golden-eagles-tom-crean/2
http://www.highbeam.com/doc/1P2-26985319.html
http://www.620wtmj.com/sports/45314652.html
http://www.sportsbybrooks.com/buzz-williams-is-kinda-sensitive-about-his-team-22133
http://bleacherreport.com/articles/118806-crean-and-crimson-golden-for-eagles
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2005/writers/luke_winn/01/18/inside.bkc/index.html
http://articles.courant.com/2002-02-10/features/0202102271_1_east-carolina-golden-eagles-tom-crean
http://staff.onmilwaukee.com/myOMC/authors/stevehaywood/haywood040408.html
Etc
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on March 31, 2011, 06:53:11 PM
No one is committed until you sign the line which is dotted.
LeDaryl Billingsley Marquette University
Motreale Clark Marquette University
Vander Blue University of Wisconsin
Derrick Williams University of Arizona
Etc, etc.
The list must be 100 strong in the last decade....players back out of commitments because coaches leave, because schools are on probation, because they change their mind. I'm sorry, but that means someone is NOT committed until they sign. This isn't hard nor a convenient answer...it's reality.
That is complete and utter nonsense, bud. The list is over "100 strong" of kids that have signed, yet back out of their commitments. So how does signing mean they have 'CHOSEN' a school but saying they have CHOSEN a school does not?
Quote from: Jay Bee on April 01, 2011, 01:25:26 AM
That is complete and utter nonsense, bud. The list is over "100 strong" of kids that have signed, yet back out of their commitments. So how does signing mean they have 'CHOSEN' a school but saying they have CHOSEN a school does not?
But if you sign and back out it's because you have a legit reason, like a coach leaving the school. Verbal commitments are not verbal contracts, just placeholders.
Chico's is accurate that O'Neil put the program back to respectability, and Crean continued doing that.
O'Neil made the program relevant again. DWade put MU back on the map. Without Wade, MU's former coach very well could never have made the tournament here and might be coaching at some mid-major school after missing the big dance his first 6 years at MU. Marquette had some other very good players to go with Wade (Henry, Diener, Jackson, Novak) but we saw the 2 years before and after Wade that those guys couldn't hack it without him.
Quote from: Stuckin1977 on April 01, 2011, 09:34:10 AM
But if you sign and back out it's because you have a legit reason, like a coach leaving the school. Verbal commitments are not verbal contracts, just placeholders.
1) No - a coach leaving a school is not a 'legit reason' per the NLI. That is completely false. Student-athletes commit to INSTITUTIONS contractually.
2) The word that has been disputed is CHOSEN. Chicos said he doesn't believe has CHOSEN a school until he signs. The fact of the matter is a lot of kids NEVER sign with the school they enroll at.
3) "Verbal commitments are not verbal contracts" - huh? Yeah, there is nothing binding, but again, many bball players are at schools without a binding contract.
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on March 31, 2011, 05:38:55 PM
He kept the program from going to Loyola mode. He did not put us back on the map, not nationally anyway. A Final Four puts you back on the map. Big East invite puts you on the map. Leaving after just five years, complaining about your contract at every turn, getting drunk nightly at public bars while cheating on your wife for all to see....doesn't get you on the map....not the right one anyway.
When Marquette becomes a destination job not a stepping stone job for a coach then will really be on the map!
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on March 31, 2011, 05:36:22 PM
Define "regularly"? Is that like "vast majority"?
I don't like what he did with Newbill...neither did HBO Sports with Bryant Gumbel. It made squirm (and many others). It's not illegal, but it makes me squirm.
I don't like recruiting kids that have already verbally committed....it makes me squirm. It's not illegal, but it makes me squirm.
I don't like it when a kid is on scholarship at another program and encouraged to transfer to MU, even if it's through back channels. Sorry, that makes me squirm. Let the kid reach out to us
Etc, etc. Others have been discussed here already.
You can certainly be squirmed all you want about what's going on at IU, or Auburn in football, or Ohio State or whatever. It's a free country. Just as I have every right to feel squirmy about some of the stuff that has been discussed.
Maybe we should hire an asst video coordinator from an AAU program because word is that they are like bees to honey in terms of recruiting. You can't believe the number of high profile kids that want to play at a school because of the assistant video coordinator. It's all the rage, everyone is getting ready to do it.
Chicos--how dare you have ethics when it comes to recruiting. You will never get a job on Calimari's staff.
Unfortunately, Chicos "assistant video coordinator" references is dumbing down the reality of the situation.
Quote from: jmayer1 on April 01, 2011, 10:57:54 AM
O'Neil made the program relevant again. DWade put MU back on the map. Without Wade, MU's former coach very well could never have made the tournament here and might be coaching at some mid-major school after missing the big dance his first 6 years at MU. Marquette had some other very good players to go with Wade (Henry, Diener, Jackson, Novak) but we saw the 2 years before and after Wade that those guys couldn't hack it without him.
Bingo. Yet Tom Crean did do a good job overall at Marquette. The program was in far worse shape after Dukiet, than it was Deane (tho similarily comparable) as both Dukiet and Deane were disasters. D-Wade was a God-send, and without him it is unlikely we even win an NCAA tournament game in Tom Crean's first 8 years at MU - he did win 1 game his 9th year against Kentucky in the first round..
Quote from: jmayer1 on April 01, 2011, 10:57:54 AM
O'Neil made the program relevant again. DWade put MU back on the map. Without Wade, MU's former coach very well could never have made the tournament here and might be coaching at some mid-major school after missing the big dance his first 6 years at MU. Marquette had some other very good players to go with Wade (Henry, Diener, Jackson, Novak) but we saw the 2 years before and after Wade that those guys couldn't hack it without him.
I don't think Wade played with Henry--if you mean Cordell. The year that he sat out, Wardle practiced against him.
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on March 31, 2011, 06:35:34 PM
Probably. Though I thought we had a number of good back to back years...3 straight NCAAs when he left and walk in the park 4th straight left for his predecessor. That seems like pretty good back to back years...or are you talking about recruiting? Tough to tell with you. You need to be clearer.
Think it's clear mu was talking about recruiting. While we're on the subject of clarity, Buzz was not TC's "predecessor". He was his successor.
Quote from: Jay Bee on April 01, 2011, 06:41:28 PM
1) No - a coach leaving a school is not a 'legit reason' per the NLI. That is completely false. Student-athletes commit to INSTITUTIONS contractually.
2) The word that has been disputed is CHOSEN. Chicos said he doesn't believe has CHOSEN a school until he signs. The fact of the matter is a lot of kids NEVER sign with the school they enroll at.
3) "Verbal commitments are not verbal contracts" - huh? Yeah, there is nothing binding, but again, many bball players are at schools without a binding contract.
1) Per the NLI it may not be a legit reason, but if you think a player has never been granted permission to leave because of a coach leaving then you've lost your mind
2) No comment, don't really care either
3) Also don't care
Quote from: Stuckin1977 on April 03, 2011, 01:04:40 PM
1) Per the NLI it may not be a legit reason, but if you think a player has never been granted permission to leave because of a coach leaving then you've lost your mind
2) No comment, don't really care either
3) Also don't care
You could have made this shorter and said, "Jay Bee, you are correct on all of these points. Sorry, I was wrong."
Quote from: willie warrior on April 03, 2011, 10:36:40 AM
I don't think Wade played with Henry--if you mean Cordell. The year that he sat out, Wardle practiced against him.
You are incorrect.
http://wiki.muscoop.com/doku.php/men_s_basketball/2001 (http://wiki.muscoop.com/doku.php/men_s_basketball/2001)
Quote from: muball on March 31, 2011, 05:35:54 PM
Brewcity77 , u sound as if your Dodds twin or Dodds using another name.
Never been on his site, never met him, closest I've come was when he stopped over here for a cup of coffee once and I read about 3 posts. But seriously, who cares about Crean anymore? He did good things for Marquette. We aren't where we are without him. Yet everyone thinks he's a d-bag (myself included). So he put us on the map then took his asshattery tactics to Indiana, leaving us with a coach who seems to be a better recruiter and certainly a guy whose more likable.
I just don't get the continued obsession. Here's what I gather:
- Crean did good things for Marquette
- Crean's personality sucks, so we don't want him at Marquette
- Crean left Marquette with our national profile improved and a coach we all like
- He's gone and has no real impact on our program, we can move on with Buzz as our coach
It seems to me everything worked out perfectly for us, and we didn't even have to go on probation to reap the benefits. Why can't we just be happy at the state of our basketball program rather than trying to sort out what's going on with a different program that is not our rival, is located hundreds of miles away, is in a different conference, and as far as I know hasn't really been a major recruiting opponent (except possibly Dawson, but neither of us got him).
Who cares? More importantly, why would anyone still care?
+1 brewcity....the Crean-fighting has been old for about two years now.
Quote from: Jay Bee on April 03, 2011, 01:34:25 PM
You could have made this shorter and said, "Jay Bee, you are correct on all of these points. Sorry, I was wrong."
Ha! Good luck getting that out of anybody on this site.
ahhh, the four sentences to wisdom:
I'm sorry.
I was wrong.
I don't know.
I need help.
Quote from: The Sultan of South Wayne on April 03, 2011, 02:51:05 PM
+1 brewcity....the Crean-fighting has been old for about two years now.
I agree...and have particiapted in some of it - but only from the perspective that Crean's staunchest defender is also Buzz's harshest, most skeptical critic. I hate the double standard, and always critical microscope on our CURRENT coach, while our former coach is so revered/praised/etc.....
Pretty sure if the board's resident Buzz skeptic/critic/basher would relent - people would also stop taking shots at said individuals mancrush - Tom Crean.
Quote from: Ners on April 04, 2011, 10:31:11 AM
I agree...and have particiapted in some of it - but only from the perspective that Crean's staunchest defender is also Buzz's harshest, most skeptical critic. I hate the double standard, and always critical microscope on our CURRENT coach, while our former coach is so revered/praised/etc.....
Pretty sure if the board's resident Buzz skeptic/critic/basher would relent - people would also stop taking shots at said individuals mancrush - Tom Crean.
It takes two to make an argument. The "he did it first" excuse doesn't work for my kids either...
Quote from: The Sultan of South Wayne on April 04, 2011, 03:12:28 PM
It takes two to make an argument. The "he did it first" excuse doesn't work for my kids either...
It should work. If the one that did it first was being a total jerk then darn right the 2nd should stand up for him/herself.
Quote from: Skatastrophy on April 04, 2011, 03:58:57 PM
It should work. If the one that did it first was being a total jerk then darn right the 2nd should stand up for him/herself.
Yes, people should stand up against Chico's' tyranny and create anti-TC threads.
Wait. No.
Quote from: 2002MUalum on April 04, 2011, 05:00:11 PM
Yes, people should stand up against Chico's' tyranny and create anti-TC threads.
Wait. No.
I wasn't talking about this weird man love + fighting all of you have for each other. The violent disagreement leading to make out sessions on this board. I could definitely live without :)
Quote from: Ners on April 04, 2011, 10:31:11 AM
I agree...and have particiapted in some of it - but only from the perspective that Crean's staunchest defender is also Buzz's harshest, most skeptical critic. I hate the double standard, and always critical microscope on our CURRENT coach, while our former coach is so revered/praised/etc.....
Pretty sure if the board's resident Buzz skeptic/critic/basher would relent - people would also stop taking shots at said individuals mancrush - Tom Crean.
No ners, you don't hate the double standards because you perpetuate them all the time. What you don't like is a perceived double standard ONE WAY, but you add to the reverse double standard all the time. Double Standard by it's VERY DEFINITION implies one provision for one person or group of people and a different application for another group. The irony in your statement(s) is that you are a complete hypocrite (as are many on this board) that use a double standard ALL THE TIME about our past coaches. OH THE IRONY.
We have people here that treat Majerus one way and KO a different way and TC another way. So don't even think about going down your path or self righteousness.
Quote from: Jay Bee on April 01, 2011, 01:25:26 AM
That is complete and utter nonsense, bud. The list is over "100 strong" of kids that have signed, yet back out of their commitments. So how does signing mean they have 'CHOSEN' a school but saying they have CHOSEN a school does not?
You should hear yourself, or just print out one of your posts and just read it. Perhaps with a glass of wine or something that makes you lucid. Try it.
Quote from: muball on March 31, 2011, 07:27:18 PM
recruiting Chico he was overated on being consistant. Couldnt compete with the big dogs and wasnt up to the challenge of the BEast so he took and easier leaque and hotter area. Just saying his I am tough thing is quite phony and people see thru it.
Thank you for the clarity. Yes, definitely some inconsistencies. You don't think he was up to the challenge of the Big East? Never finishing worse than 5th place suggests you couldn't be more wrong, but whatever.
Quote from: PuertoRicanNightmare on April 03, 2011, 08:54:14 AM
Unfortunately, Chicos "assistant video coordinator" references is dumbing down the reality of the situation.
By all means...expand. This will be good to hear. I see two more Indiana Elite kids did not "choose" IU recently and another IU verbal wasn't a member of Indiana Elite. Odd. Maybe the siren song of the Assistant Video Coordinator is wearing off.
Or maybe the connection with that team and IU for about 40 years is starting to fray.... ::)
Quote from: jmayer1 on April 01, 2011, 10:57:54 AM
O'Neil made the program relevant again. DWade put MU back on the map. Without Wade, MU's former coach very well could never have made the tournament here and might be coaching at some mid-major school after missing the big dance his first 6 years at MU. Marquette had some other very good players to go with Wade (Henry, Diener, Jackson, Novak) but we saw the 2 years before and after Wade that those guys couldn't hack it without him.
LOL.
Yes, KO made the program "relevant" in that we didn't fall off the earth. Completely agree.
Remind me again who recruits and signs players, I keep forgetting that part. Furthermore, when the player leaves, WHO keeps the program viable since that player is gone? In college hoops, it's the coach because they are the constant.
I did a 5 minute search and came up with those 10 articles. I'm sure I could put 25 or 50 more if I felt like it.
ners...this is a classic example of the double standard here used all the time that so many don't get....ners especially.
By the way, who does that Wade guy still swear by? Odd.
At any rate, Buzz has a great opportunity to keep this thing going and take it to another LEVEL. I thank TC for putting us on the map again. Getting us the players to make that possible....Travis Diener, Dwyane Wade, Steve Novak, Robert Jackson, etc. He can be an incredible douche, but none of us are probably here talking about 6 straight NCAA appearances without him. None of us are here thinking about the Final Four we had in the last 10 years and the great memories of guys like DJ, Matthews, McNeal, Hayward, highly competitive Big East finishes, etc, etc. NONE OF US!
Sorry that irks a lot of you. Sorry this doesn't agree with the double standards that some of you complain about but participate in on a near daily basis.
Quote from: muball on March 31, 2011, 05:35:54 PM
Brewcity77 , u sound as if your Dodds twin or Dodds using another name.
Sack Up!
So... Jeremy Hollowell recently committed to I4. How amazing, he ran with the Eric Gordon All-Stars... we were all baffled.
Now the truth as been revealed.
Reported today that Hollowell will be leaving EG AS and joining a program called.. oh what is it?... ooooh yeah, Indiana Elite.
Shocking stuff.
I do think we have double standards on this board. We hold other schools and/or coaches more accountable than our own. The TC bashing is fun for some on here which is fine. But, make no mistake about it that IU is happy with the direction TC is going. Everyone on here laughs at the results and IU looks at it as part of the process. Indiana basketball is still blue blood around the basketball circles.
Tom Crean sucks!!!!Period.
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on April 04, 2011, 06:21:17 PM
ners...this is a classic example of the double standard here used all the time that so many don't get....ners especially.
By the way, who does that Wade guy still swear by? Odd.
At any rate, Buzz has a great opportunity to keep this thing going and take it to another LEVEL. I thank TC for putting us on the map again. Getting us the players to make that possible....Travis Diener, Dwyane Wade, Steve Novak, Robert Jackson, etc. He can be an incredible douche, but none of us are probably here talking about 6 straight NCAA appearances without him. None of us are here thinking about the Final Four we had in the last 10 years and the great memories of guys like DJ, Matthews, McNeal, Hayward, highly competitive Big East finishes, etc, etc. NONE OF US!
Sorry that irks a lot of you. Sorry this doesn't agree with the double standards that some of you complain about but participate in on a near daily basis.
Umm, thank you for posting this. The irony is hysterical. You just glowed and glowed and glowed about TC, Travis, Steve, DJ, Wes, the Final Four..and none of us are talking about 6 straight NCAA appearances "without him." Yet you submit articles about this past year's team as being a bunch of choking dogs pissing themselves? Where have you just gushed about DJO, Buycks, Jimmy, Crowder, Buzz...and the rest of the guys from this year's team....who are all Buzz guys..and helped continue the run of NCAA tourney appearances - but without Crean we couldn't have done that?? Plus we made it last year with some of Crean's guys who most picked would finish 12th in the conference. You make allegations of shady recruiting behavior by Buzz....but then completely defend Tom Crean's alliance with the Indiana Elite and hiring of coaches sons, walk on spots handed to board of directors of Indiana Elite's kid....You bellyached all last summer about us recruiting JUCO's. Please. What is so damn hard for you to just admit that you have a major league man crush on Tom Crean?? If you'd just acknowledge that, you could stop living the lie you live around here.
"articles"? I submitted ONE article like that and changed it within 2 hours. I have plenty of articles and posts that were highly praiseworthy of Buzz and the team, but you ignore those...of course.
That's right, we would not have done it because we wouldn't be in the situation we are in to get those guys. We wouldn't be in the Big East, we wouldn't have a Final Four to build off, etc, etc.
You honestly think Buzz would have accomplished this from scratch...that he would have come in with a 14-15 team following Mike Deane and done this? We'll never know because n one in this country would have ever given him that opportunity. I'm glad he's done well with it...glad he took a great thing and only went slightly backward this year (first finish in the bottom half of the conference) but for the most part has done well. Next year should be a top 25 team. Looking forward to it.
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on April 10, 2011, 10:57:17 AM
"articles"? I submitted ONE article like that and changed it within 2 hours. I have plenty of articles and posts that were highly praiseworthy of Buzz and the team, but you ignore those...of course.
That's right, we would not have done it because we wouldn't be in the situation we are in to get those guys. We wouldn't be in the Big East, we wouldn't have a Final Four to build off, etc, etc.
You honestly think Buzz would have accomplished this from scratch...that he would have come in with a 14-15 team following Mike Deane and done this? We'll never know because n one in this country would have ever given him that opportunity. I'm glad he's done well with it...glad he took a great thing and only went slightly backward this year (first finish in the bottom half of the conference) but for the most part has done well. Next year should be a top 25 team. Looking forward to it.
Fair post...by why on earth do you think Tom Crean was capable of being nothing more than a career assistant coach prior to coming to MU - much like Buzz - but you imply there is no way Buzz could have engineered the turnaround from the Deane disaster? I think both guys have some great talents, just think Buzz has a little more talent when it comes to coaching/recruiting. Crean is probably a better program cheerleader, enthusiasm generator, etc.
But last question - so did you prefer finishing in 5th place at 10-6, 10-6 and 11-7 in the Big East - as we did in 06,07, and 08 only to lose in the 1st round 2 of those years and 2nd round of the NCAA in 2008...or finishing 9-9 and 9th in the Big East buy making a Sweet 16?
Quote from: Ners on April 10, 2011, 11:16:41 AM
Fair post...by why on earth do you think Tom Crean was capable of being nothing more than a career assistant coach prior to coming to MU - much like Buzz - but you imply there is no way Buzz could have engineered the turnaround from the Deane disaster? I think both guys have some great talents, just think Buzz has a little more talent when it comes to coaching/recruiting. Crean is probably a better program cheerleader, enthusiasm generator, etc.
He's already proven to be more than capable to do things on his own. He was considered one of the top 3 assistants in the country when he was hired and came from arguably the best program in college basketball at the time. Buzz was considered a good assistant, but one that landed him a head coaching gig at New Orleans. Those are the differences in reality.
Quote from: Ners on April 10, 2011, 11:16:41 AM
But last question - so did you prefer finishing in 5th place at 10-6, 10-6 and 11-7 in the Big East - as we did in 06,07, and 08 only to lose in the 1st round 2 of those years and 2nd round of the NCAA in 2008...or finishing 9-9 and 9th in the Big East buy making a Sweet 16?
I've answered this question a 100 times. The NCAA Tournament is a crapshoot. I prefer doing well in the regular season to set us up for the NCAA Tournament. We had a great setup this year, playing two teams that couldn't shoot the three....our achilles heel. That doesn't mean next year we aren't a 3 seed but playing a team who's strength is our weakness and we go down in the first round. It's a crapshoot. I've always said that and always will.
I don't discount the regular season as some throw away. We barely got into the tournament. Last 6 teams in. If we don't be WVU, do we get in? If we lost to PC, we certainly wouldn't have. Then that Sweet 16 doesn't even happen. You can't have that Sweet 16 run unless you get into the tournament to begin with.