http://ouhoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=21332
Some guy from Texas A&M tweeted this and they are talking about it on the OU boards.
That's a statement from MU. Lots to live up to for Buzz actually.
Those making the decision better hope they are right and are 100 percent convinced of Buzz or it could blow up in their face. Especially in the short term. Bad timing PR wise.
If true, that's a ton of money for a guy in his 4th year of head coaching and one Sweet 16 on his resume. For his sake, he better keep winning and go beyond the Sweet 16 soon or folks will soon start wondering if he is overpaid.
That's a lot of jing for someone this early in his career. God Bless America
I will say this, if MU announces a big contract like that this week, the Cott has huge balls. Whether the allegations we are hearing about are true or not, you can't deny it is bad publicity for the University. If Buzz gets his contract this week that would be an incredible show of faith in Buzz. Would be a lot easier to not announce an agreement until later.
Wasn't Izzo at $2.6M? Considering what he has accomplished, I'm sure some of these salaries are eye opening to him
Quote from: groove on March 28, 2011, 11:45:37 PM
I will say this, if MU announces a big contract like that this week, the Cott has huge balls. Whether the allegations we are hearing about are true or not, you can't deny it is bad publicity for the University. If Buzz gets his contract this week that would be an incredible show of faith in Buzz. Would be a lot easier to not announce an agreement until later.
Why would it be better to wait if the dollar figure is true?
My guess is that many strong or even casual fans of Marquette basketball would take the view of 2.5 million probably being excessive for a guy in only his third year and no Final Four or title game berth like say Shaka Smart has, but in the end they'd like to see Buzz stay and they aren't the ones writing the check to Buzz.
That's the way i'd view it and when i was talking to my good buddy, i told him what i read and his view was wow that's a lot of coin, but at least he's staying. Sure the super hardcore MU fans that spend their time on a forum like this one may go the route of saying that's crazy and comparing what Buzz makes in relation to other more proven coaches, but the other 95-98 percent of fans don't know and don't really care what Buzz makes so long as the team wins games. Some might do an initial wow double take like my friend did if news came out about what Buzz now makes, but 5-10 minutes later they'll forget about it and move on to thinking about all the everyday stuff they normally are thinking about.
I don't think MU has to say what Buzz is making. I assume they file as a non-profit and would likely have to report Buzz's salary since it would be a top salary. I could be wrong though.
I think this report has to be false. $2.5 million is excessive. I hope it's less than that. I don't really care at the end of the day, but that's excessive and unnecessary. Especially because I think/thought Buzz was staying because he likes MU and wants to be here - to me $2.5 million sounds more like MU is trying to convince him to stay than paying fair value. It also sets an unrealistic precedent that I don't think we should be setting - what if there is a need to hire a new coach within a few years (hopefully not)?
Quote from: TJ on March 29, 2011, 12:54:06 AM
I think this report has to be false. $2.5 million is excessive. I hope it's less than that. I don't really care at the end of the day, but that's excessive and unnecessary. Especially because I think/thought Buzz was staying because he likes MU and wants to be here - to me $2.5 million sounds more like MU is trying to convince him to stay than paying fair value. It also sets an unrealistic precedent that I don't think we should be setting - what if there is a need to hire a new coach within a few years (hopefully not)?
Disagree. Let recruits know that Buzz won't be leaving unless there is a no brainer opening. Let every tabloid caliber article know that Marquette is a big money program and include the salary in their "rumors."
Also, let's attract talent to our coaching staff if/when Buzz leaves. Who cares if a Brad Stevens is motivated by money.
Quote from: HoopsMalone on March 29, 2011, 01:10:59 AM
Disagree. Let recruits know that Buzz won't be leaving unless there is a no brainer opening. Let every tabloid caliber article know that Marquette is a big money program and include the salary in their "rumors."
There's something to this I guess, but it gives the wrong impression in my opinion. I would like to be able to say that Buzz wants to be here no matter what the money, as opposed to saying that Buzz couldn't possibly get more money elsewhere. Semantics I guess, one is just a more expensive way to say the same thing.
Quote from: HoopsMalone on March 29, 2011, 01:10:59 AM
Also, let's attract talent to our coaching staff if/when Buzz leaves. Who cares if a Brad Stevens is motivated by money.
I know there's more to it than just basketball results, but if we pay Buzz $2.5 million for his results to date, Brad Stevens deserves $5 million. That's the precedent I have minor reservations about - $2.5 million for a 3-3 tournament record means anyone with any resume at all is going to cost that as well. (Or more - this number is for the guy already here, not for a guy we might be trying to lure away from somewhere else.)
With respect, I see it a little differently.
I think the sticker shock of either $2 million or $2.5 million grabs headlines because it's so much more than most of us make. It seems gaudy that a basketball coach makes more than Marquette's best professors or most trusted deans. Especially if that coach is young and, in the eyes of many, unproven.
All true but not the point.
As I posted a couple weeks ago, Marquette basketball has been wildly inconsistent in the three-and-a-half decades since Al McGuire stopped coaching guys in short pants. For all of our program's proud heritage we've advanced to four Sweet 16s and two mid-major conference championships since Al retired.
Our two best coaches since Al have left for greener pastures. KO and Crean both did great things to wake up the Warrior tradition but, in the end, they thought they needed to go elsewhere to go to "the next level."
Thanks to the efforts of those coaches, and a university administration that seems to have learned from the painful era that resulted from trying to do things the cheap way, we now have a number of assets that make our program feel big time.
Despite it's widely reported tourney troubles and the specter of impending football finance schism, the Big East is big time basketball. It's on a level that far surpasses the 1980s Catholic independent, Great Midwest or Conference USA anchor that we were in the past.
The Al is a great facility which seems to be an ideal environment for someone like Todd Smith to transform bodies. If you have a look at the strength and speed improvements that guys from Chris and Junior have made to the leaps and bounds Wes took, you can tell we're doing something right there.
If Buzz had left, these tools would have remained, giving us a good chance of landing a legit new coach. However, I think Buzz staying provides something we've lacked for decades - an opportunity for consistency.
In a world where most people pay a lot less attention to college basektball than most of us, it pays to be in the big dance every year. It pays to be playing on Friday and Saturday in the Big East Tourney. It pays to put players in the NBA.
Crean started that and Buzz has kept it up. For the casual fan and the perspective recruit outside Wisconsin, Marquette has much more relevance and name recognition that it did a dozen years ago.
The opportunity for the university is to extend it streak of NCAA appearances, increase its performance in the Big East and make a decent run in the dance more than once a decade.
To do all that, Marquette needs stability at the top of the program. All of oft-circulated debate about one's personal feelings in the Crean vs Buzz debate is a waste of time. The point is that Crean led to Buzz. And, between them, we've been able to sustain respectability in the Big East and a presence on our beloved sport's grandest stage.
So the question of what to pay Buzz actually has very little to do with what Shaka or Brad are doing or earning. Those guys are brilliant. And they walked into atypical situations and delivered. Would one of them be great at MU? Probably. Would we be their first choice? Maybe. Maybe not. We don't know because we're not yet a "sure thing." Why would they leave for anything less than a sure thing when they've had success where they are?
In the context of the business that is Marquette Athletics, I would have made the call Cottingham appears to have made. You have a coach who has managed to bridge the gap between one of MU's great recruiting classes (the Big Three) by cobbling together classes of JuCos and now has a new generation of longer, athletic and highly regarded Warriors-in-training.
The only bottom line that matter isn't Buzz's paycheck. The bottom line is that if it's worth keeping Buzz around, the stakes of the game are much, much higher that $500,000 either way. The sticker shock of the $2.5 million is a red herring. It's a distraction. If you don't keep Buzz you don't save the $2.5 million. You've gotta go find someone else and likely pay them a seven figure salary.
If that extra $500,000 makes Buzz appear to be more likely to stay to recruits, to non-elite headhunters, to the press, I'd say it's worth every penny.
GO WARRIORS. Take a break. Hit the gym.
For God's sake get Vander and Junior locked into a gym with Steve 96-three-pointers-in-a-row Novak for 8 hours a day.
Get all those youngbloods in the gym with Mr. Smith.
And get us another 6-8 plus guy who like the taste of sweat and rebounds in traffic.
GRRRRRR.
Why do we do this?
Some guy on the Oklahoma boards tweets $2.5 million and now that is Buzz's pay and we discuss.
Do you want the list of incorrect tweets from OU boards in alphabetic or chronological order? Remember the one that said Buzz's dream job was Oklahoma state.
Meanwhile, Rosiak has all but announced he talks to Cotts and Buzz and then post blogs, has been about 100% right on everything in this matter (despite the 200 other reports he has been wrong), says something different.
---
Rosiak:
http://www.jsonline.com/blogs/sports/118803149.html
The guess here is it's going to be a deal worth more than $2 million annually. How it will be structured -- whether it's another rollover contract, how much the buyout will be and so on -- will probably be the major sticking points. He's currently signed to a six-year rollover deal paying him $1.6 million. That figure is scheduled to jump to over $1.7 million in the coming months.
Undoubtedly, Williams would like the buyout in his new contract to be lower than the figure that it would take to get him out of his current deal: $3.8 million, all told. It's standard in contracts for the buyout to drop every few years in order to afford the coach some flexibility as time goes on, so looking for something like that to be included wouldn't be out of the ordinary from Williams' standpoint.
MU, from its vantage point, has no problem paying the going rate for a hot young coach like Williams. The school proved that with Tom Crean years ago. The key will be structuring the deal in such a way that it can protect itself somewhat in the coming years, as Williams will likely be a popular name for most coaching vacancies that pop up each off-season, just as he is now, and like Crean was.
Both parties appear to be on the same page, and Williams after MU's loss last Friday appeared in no way interested in moving on. Things can obviously change, and nothing is set in stone until an agreement is announced. But my guess is something will come together at some point over the course of this week, and the carousel can finally stop spinning in Milwaukee.
---
Let make this very clear on the Buzz contract/job matter ...
Rosiak = correct, only reporter that has a clue and is close to correct. Maybe because he talks to Cotts and Buzz
Rest of reporters/bloggers/tweeters on planet earth = no idea what they are talking about, never right and largely embarrass themselves. Maybe because they do not know who Cottingham is and have never talked to Buzz.
Who cares if Buzz gets paid 2 or 2.5 million...either way Marquette is stepping up and trying to protect itself and make it harder for other schools out there to grab Buzz. Had Marquette not paid him the money and he left for some other school offering more than Marquette then a lot of people on this board would be crying over how cheap Marquette is or something else.
Is Buzz worth 2.5 million...that's not my call or any of our calls to make. Has he made it to a Final Four or Championship game...no, but Tom "Judas" Crean did a good job of leaving the cupboard empty for him after the Big 3 left and all Buzz has managed to do is continue our streak of tournament appearances. At the same time, Buzz is also getting some decent recruits that has the future of Marquette basketball looking better and better.
Quote from: Norm on March 28, 2011, 11:37:26 PM
If true, that's a ton of money for a guy in his 4th year of head coaching and one Sweet 16 on his resume. For his sake, he better keep winning and go beyond the Sweet 16 soon or folks will soon start wondering if he is overpaid.
Absolutely, and there better be some big time progress in Conference record, scheduling, recruiting big time studs, and dance progress---and please spare the excuses--2.5 million zoidies?? That is big time cash!!!
Sounds good to me.
Billy Luicci from A&M is legit. Has connections.
2.5- That's some good cheddar. Buzz is in the big leagues as far as compensation. MU needs to get their money's worth in publicity, attendance, etc.
Quote from: DCWarriors04 on March 29, 2011, 06:18:06 AM
Is Buzz worth 2.5 million...that's not my call or any of our calls to make. Has he made it to a Final Four or Championship game...no, but Tom "Judas" Crean did a good job of leaving the cupboard empty for him after the Big 3 left and all Buzz has managed to do is continue our streak of tournament appearances. At the same time, Buzz is also getting some decent recruits that has the future of Marquette basketball looking better and better.
You may not have liked how he left, and you may not have liked him while he was here, but the "Judas" label for Crean is completely misplaced.
I'd be willing to coach MU for half that. You have my number, Cottingham.
I am glad they are paying Buzz this kind of money. Obviously they believe Buzz has the skill set to take us to the next level. Only a scared or incompetent AD would pay this kind of a money for the wrong guy. I am betting that AD and school are swinging for the fences.
Quote from: AnotherMU84 on March 29, 2011, 05:18:00 AM
Why do we do this?
Some guy on the Oklahoma boards tweets $2.5 million and now that is Buzz's pay and we discuss.
Do you want the list of incorrect tweets from OU boards in alphabetic or chronological order? Remember the one that said Buzz's dream job was Oklahoma state.
Meanwhile, Rosiak has all but announced he talks to Cotts and Buzz and then post blogs, has been about 100% right on everything in this matter (despite the 200 other reports he has been wrong), says something different.
---
Rosiak:
http://www.jsonline.com/blogs/sports/118803149.html
The guess here is it's going to be a deal worth more than $2 million annually. How it will be structured -- whether it's another rollover contract, how much the buyout will be and so on -- will probably be the major sticking points. He's currently signed to a six-year rollover deal paying him $1.6 million. That figure is scheduled to jump to over $1.7 million in the coming months.
Undoubtedly, Williams would like the buyout in his new contract to be lower than the figure that it would take to get him out of his current deal: $3.8 million, all told. It's standard in contracts for the buyout to drop every few years in order to afford the coach some flexibility as time goes on, so looking for something like that to be included wouldn't be out of the ordinary from Williams' standpoint.
MU, from its vantage point, has no problem paying the going rate for a hot young coach like Williams. The school proved that with Tom Crean years ago. The key will be structuring the deal in such a way that it can protect itself somewhat in the coming years, as Williams will likely be a popular name for most coaching vacancies that pop up each off-season, just as he is now, and like Crean was.
Both parties appear to be on the same page, and Williams after MU's loss last Friday appeared in no way interested in moving on. Things can obviously change, and nothing is set in stone until an agreement is announced. But my guess is something will come together at some point over the course of this week, and the carousel can finally stop spinning in Milwaukee.
---
Let make this very clear on the Buzz contract/job matter ...
Rosiak = correct, only reporter that has a clue and is close to correct. Maybe because he talks to Cotts and Buzz
Rest of reporters/bloggers/tweeters on planet earth = no idea what they are talking about, never right and largely embarrass themselves. Maybe because they do not know who Cottingham is and have never talked to Buzz.
So Rosiak says over 2 and a connected/credible guy from Buzz's former school says 2.5 (which would be consistent with Rosiak) and it's somehow crazy to talk about that?
Quote from: nycwarrior on March 29, 2011, 04:52:43 AM
With respect, I see it a little differently.
I think the sticker shock of either $2 million or $2.5 million grabs headlines because it's so much more than most of us make. It seems gaudy that a basketball coach makes more than Marquette's best professors or most trusted deans. Especially if that coach is young and, in the eyes of many, unproven.
All true but not the point.
As I posted a couple weeks ago, Marquette basketball has been wildly inconsistent in the three-and-a-half decades since Al McGuire stopped coaching guys in short pants. For all of our program's proud heritage we've advanced to four Sweet 16s and two mid-major conference championships since Al retired.
Our two best coaches since Al have left for greener pastures. KO and Crean both did great things to wake up the Warrior tradition but, in the end, they thought they needed to go elsewhere to go to "the next level."
Thanks to the efforts of those coaches, and a university administration that seems to have learned from the painful era that resulted from trying to do things the cheap way, we now have a number of assets that make our program feel big time.
Despite it's widely reported tourney troubles and the specter of impending football finance schism, the Big East is big time basketball. It's on a level that far surpasses the 1980s Catholic independent, Great Midwest or Conference USA anchor that we were in the past.
The Al is a great facility which seems to be an ideal environment for someone like Todd Smith to transform bodies. If you have a look at the strength and speed improvements that guys from Chris and Junior have made to the leaps and bounds Wes took, you can tell we're doing something right there.
If Buzz had left, these tools would have remained, giving us a good chance of landing a legit new coach. However, I think Buzz staying provides something we've lacked for decades - an opportunity for consistency.
In a world where most people pay a lot less attention to college basektball than most of us, it pays to be in the big dance every year. It pays to be playing on Friday and Saturday in the Big East Tourney. It pays to put players in the NBA.
Crean started that and Buzz has kept it up. For the casual fan and the perspective recruit outside Wisconsin, Marquette has much more relevance and name recognition that it did a dozen years ago.
The opportunity for the university is to extend it streak of NCAA appearances, increase its performance in the Big East and make a decent run in the dance more than once a decade.
To do all that, Marquette needs stability at the top of the program. All of oft-circulated debate about one's personal feelings in the Crean vs Buzz debate is a waste of time. The point is that Crean led to Buzz. And, between them, we've been able to sustain respectability in the Big East and a presence on our beloved sport's grandest stage.
So the question of what to pay Buzz actually has very little to do with what Shaka or Brad are doing or earning. Those guys are brilliant. And they walked into atypical situations and delivered. Would one of them be great at MU? Probably. Would we be their first choice? Maybe. Maybe not. We don't know because we're not yet a "sure thing." Why would they leave for anything less than a sure thing when they've had success where they are?
In the context of the business that is Marquette Athletics, I would have made the call Cottingham appears to have made. You have a coach who has managed to bridge the gap between one of MU's great recruiting classes (the Big Three) by cobbling together classes of JuCos and now has a new generation of longer, athletic and highly regarded Warriors-in-training.
The only bottom line that matter isn't Buzz's paycheck. The bottom line is that if it's worth keeping Buzz around, the stakes of the game are much, much higher that $500,000 either way. The sticker shock of the $2.5 million is a red herring. It's a distraction. If you don't keep Buzz you don't save the $2.5 million. You've gotta go find someone else and likely pay them a seven figure salary.
If that extra $500,000 makes Buzz appear to be more likely to stay to recruits, to non-elite headhunters, to the press, I'd say it's worth every penny.
GO WARRIORS. Take a break. Hit the gym.
For God's sake get Vander and Junior locked into a gym with Steve 96-three-pointers-in-a-row Novak for 8 hours a day.
Get all those youngbloods in the gym with Mr. Smith.
And get us another 6-8 plus guy who like the taste of sweat and rebounds in traffic.
GRRRRRR.
+1 on the money analysis.
+1 on the history.
+1 on the context.
+1000 on the Novak 4 Asst Coach
I could care less if it's 2m or 2.5m. We are trying to build long term stability and get this program going in the road direction for the long term. If that's what it takes, I'm ok with it considering mu has the money anyways. It's not all about what he has already done but where the administration thinks he can take this program and where they see it headed. And I sure hope they are right. Personally, I believe they are.
I wonder if this current story will cause MU to wait on announcing this if they do at all. MU knows 100% of the facts so they would know best. Maybe extending Buzz would be a good distraction story, or it could draw more attention to this.
The ultimate announcement about Buzz's future is when OU announces someone other than Buzz I suppose.
I am not sure why it should reflect on Buzz, if some player did something stupid. The only way it should reflect on Buzz, is if the player has a bad history before he came to MU. Also, who would MU be able to hire if Buzz left and at what cost? Especially, if some players were shown the door. You pay Buzz 2.5 million, because he is our best option.
Quote from: HoopsMalone on March 29, 2011, 10:32:51 AM
I wonder if this current story will cause MU to wait on announcing this if they do at all. MU knows 100% of the facts so they would know best. Maybe extending Buzz would be a good distraction story, or it could draw more attention to this.
The ultimate announcement about Buzz's future is when OU announces someone other than Buzz I suppose.
No.
There is no need to make an announcement this week while the other story is in the news. If MU and Buzz have reached an agreement they know it and that is all that matters. No need to give the general public the opportunity to think that MU just paid $2.5 million dollars for a coach who recruits pervs.
And right or wrong that is what people will think. I received four emails last night and today from friends from other parts of the country asking me about MU and saying stuff like, 'hey, you guys are like the Bearcats now.'
I have no inside knowledge of the process in arriving at an NCAA head coach's salary, but I know that compensation is given to Retain and Reward performance. In College Basketball, the cost of a coach leaving (especially after only 3 years) would be steeper than in other industries. Add to that the quick interest other programs are showing in Buzz.
I can understand that MU feels putting money into locking him down for the foreseeable future will
1) Improve recruiting
2) Build attendence
3) Reduce risk
Buzz's performance so far should calm us from the initial "we replace Tom Crean with this guy!!?" reaction many of us had early on, but probably doesn't make up most of the justification for $2-2.5m.
How many times have you heard Izzo's name in the running for any other college job? Never; he's made it clear he's staying at MSU (unless he jumps for the NBA). Same can be said for Bo - who wants him? He has a better resume at this point in performance, but there's no reason to pay him to stay.
This whole thing makes sense to me, especially since MU's BBall program pays for itself. I like Buzz as our coach and most visibile University spokesperson, and hope he has continued success.
Quote from: sixstrings03 on March 29, 2011, 12:12:26 PM
I can understand that MU feels putting money into locking him down for the foreseeable future will
1) Improve recruiting
2) Build attendence
3) Reduce risk
I agree with your post, but especially the above. The last two times MU made it to the Sweet 16 (or beyond), the coach really was not able to effectively capitalize on the recruiting. In KO's case, he left MU. In TC's case, his name constantly appeared for new jobs - allowing bo and his cronies to put a wedge with the recruit.
Paying Buzz this kind of money this early in his career was a statement. To Buzz, to the program, to the recruits and to other potential suitors. Now let's see what Buzz can do on the recruiting trail to build upon the Sweet 16 run.
Quote from: groove on March 29, 2011, 12:03:05 PM
And right or wrong that is what people will think. I received four emails last night and today from friends from other parts of the country asking me about MU and saying stuff like, 'hey, you guys are like the Bearcats now.'
That is an awful lot of words to type when all you could have said was "My friends are morons."
Yeah, you can say that about the general public too. Just the perception that will be out there, don't kid yourself.
Quote from: The Sultan of South Wayne on March 29, 2011, 12:21:32 PM
That is an awful lot of words to type when all you could have said was "My friends are morons."
I just spit my coffee at the computer ... well played.
It is probably somewhere between 2 and 2.5 but I hope it's closer to 2.5.
Don't think of it as 2.5. Think of it as an extra .8 mill.
Buzz's shown he can recruit. He's won some games. Beat a higher seed than Bo ever has. Kids Graduate. No character issues.
Lets say no offer was coming this year, we could have waited till next year to give him this deal. But why? It is 800k to make a gesture. Lets see if he's brought up next year when some random, bottom tear, state school is making a change.
Consistency is worth it.
Well put Rawdog.
nycwarrior,
Excellent post that really sums up MU's situation the last 30 years. Considering what Al and Hank built, we have been underachievers ever since.
The fact that the current administration understands the basketball program and it's value to the university is huge.
We coud still have Fr. Al D who destroyed mens hoops and damn near cratered the University.
nyc warrior--I have read your post several times and absolutely love it. Your thoughts are right on, at least on the surface. I truly hope that administration are making the call because they trust Buzz is the guy. Hate to admit it, but I still get gun shy whenever MU needs to make a ball decision. Never sure if the decision is made from strength or weakness. I am thinking positively and your post pumped me up.
That said, I have been harping about the program having an identity and have my fingers crossed we might be wanting to be a basketball school again. We were once a basketball powerhouse and this fan wants to see it again. Pay Buzz, or whoever is the right guy, all the money need to maximize our assets.
Quote from: The Sultan of South Wayne on March 29, 2011, 12:21:32 PM
That is an awful lot of words to type when all you could have said was "My friends are morons."
No ....I do not think so......
We have never had anyone kidnap a fellow student.....Tie him down.....Torture him with a scalding hot coat hanger (and who knows what else) to find out where he hides his stash.....
That is slightly outside the boundaries of a Jesuit education......
With regard to "the other story" - - - -
" [T]here are known knowns; there are things we know we know.
We also know there are known unknowns; that is to say we know there are some things we do not know.
But there are also unknown unknowns – the ones we don't know we don't know. "
—Former United States Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld
Buzz still has some learning to do, but it all starts with recruiting. As much as some may malign Buzz's recruits, let's look at the guys he's brought in the past two seasons:
2009- Dwight Buycks: JUCO All-American, useful sixth man as a junior, started virtually all of senior year
- Junior Cadougan: After an injury-plagued freshman year and a slow start, finally looks like our point guard of the future
- Jeronne Maymon: Yes, he left, and no, he hasn't really done anything of note, but he was an immense talent that would have been handed a scholarship at 98% of all D1 schools, good get, despite how it worked out
- Erik Williams: Really struggled to get minutes his first two years, but started to see regular time near the end of this season and seems to be "getting it", like Maymon, a highly rated player that could have went most anywhere and will hopefully contribute even more the next two seasons
- Yous Mbao: Buzz took a flier on a 7'2" guy and missed, never grasped his role on defense, transferred before he could develop
- Brett Roseboro: Another miss, 6'10" big man didn't seem to fit in from the start and never suited up
- Darius Johnson-Odom: Immense JUCO transfer has been better than anyone expected, leading scorer this year and possible 20 ppg scorer next year
2010- Vander Blue: Top 40 talent, could have been given a scholarship at any school in the country, while some argue he underachieved as a freshman, there's no way Buzz could have passed on this kid
- Jamail Jones: Hasn't done much yet, but has a good jump shot and is projected as an NBA player, like Maymon and Williams, could have played almost anywhere
- Jae Crowder: JUCO POY hit the wall near the end of the season, but was an emotion leader and impact player from day one
- Reggie Smith: Transferred before he could prove his worth, flashed potential but didn't pan out
- DJ Newbill: Committed to us then released from his commitment, played very well at Southern Miss but obviously did nothing for MU
- Jamil Wilson: Top 50 talent that we missed on once but not twice, a huge coup for Buzz to get him back home
- Davante Gardner: Better than anyone expected him to be as a freshman, contributed useful minutes and offense in the post
I see these guys as fitting into three main categories...
Can't pass prospects: Big difference between can't miss and can't pass. Quite simply, when you are Marquette, you don't pass on a top 100 kid that wants to come here. Blue, Wilson, and Cadougan will hopefully be major factors next year. And while we haven't seen much yet, Jones, Williams, and Maymon were guys that Buzz had to take, simply because unless you are UNC or Duke, you don't pass on talents like those.
JUCO transfers: DJO and Crowder have been studs, Buycks has been a useful starter. All were JUCO All-Americans. They helped ease the gap between the Three Amigos and Lazar's graduations and the maturation of our current freshmen and sophomores. Whether you like their inclusion, they did the job.
Three-stars and below: In the past two years, we have more misses than hits, but that one hit is our first legitimate low post scorer in a long time. In addition, none of the misses are currently taking up scholarships. People may throw around terms like 'Buzz-cut' or whatever, but the roster looks good.
Okay, so that's my recruiting summary. Next year, more than half of the roster will be either top-100 players or JUCO All-Americans. Of the remainder, two will be centers with legitimate upside, two will be freshman guards that are drawing late rave reviews, one will be a walk-on, and one scholarship is open. Clearly, the talent, at least by the ratings, is coming around. As long as his game-planning develops (already showing signs), his motivation keeps working, and he continues to bring in quality kids (still a bit leery of how this current thing will play out) then I think he's worth the money, even if it does seem a bit crazy. In 5-10 years, if he's still here, I'm confident that 2.5M/year will sound like a steal.
Quote from: brewcity77 on March 29, 2011, 11:33:00 PM
...
Good recruiting breakdown; I enjoyed reading it.
Quote from: brewcity77 on March 29, 2011, 11:33:00 PM
In 5-10 years, if he's still here, I'm confident that 2.5M/year will sound like a steal.
With Buzz inking a new contract annually, do we think it will still be 2.5M in 5-10 years?
Quote from: brewcity77 on March 29, 2011, 11:33:00 PM
Three-stars and below: In the past two years, we have more misses than hits, but that one hit is our first legitimate low post scorer in a long time. In addition, none of the misses are currently taking up scholarships. People may throw around terms like 'Buzz-cut' or whatever, but the roster looks good.
I'd like to know how Buzz is doing against his Big East peers in terms of 3-star recruiting "hits."
Ox has been a dead on hit so far, and his performance against UNC had me wringing my hands in evil anticipation of the next three years.
If Roseboro, DJN and RS had stayed, they could too have very well been hits; then again, maybe not. At the very least, I don't think you can count these against Buzz... he may have recruited the right talent, just the wrong people. Either way, I would call these "no decisions."
With Mbao, injuries forced a transfer; however, I don't think he was going to pan out... simply too raw, too lanky, too slow for his size, and not enough basketball IQ. Call that a miss.
Otule should be added to Buzz's list... even though recruited under the TC regime, he was Buzz's recruit and never played for TC. Another definite three-star "hit" in that he has performed beyond expectations thus far.
So by my count, Buzz is 2-1 (in 6 starts) on three-stars. Too soon to extrapolate into meaningful results, but certainly he's on the right track.
Quote from: TJ on March 30, 2011, 09:27:25 AM
With Buzz inking a new contract annually, do we think it will still be 2.5M in 5-10 years?
Ha, If we keep raising his salarary by 30% every year he'll be the highest paid coach in the courntry in 2 years. I don't think the Administration entered into this new contract thinking it would have to be redone in 12 months.
Rawdog--I am afraid we are looking at increases on yearly basis because we have set the table for that happening. My only concern on paying Buzz all this money is that we might be doing it for wrong reason. I hope they believe Buzz is FF type guy and not S16 every few years.
We have shown that money is not a major obstacle and that is good thing. Now we need to return to surpass the investment.
Quote from: RawdogDX on March 30, 2011, 10:24:49 AM
Ha, If we keep raising his salarary by 30% every year he'll be the highest paid coach in the country in 2 years. I don't think the Administration entered into this new contract thinking it would have to be redone in 12 months.
That's shortsighted on their part, given that every contract Buzz has had so far has been redone 12 months later. He's about to sign his 4th contract as head coach.
Quote from: willie warrior on March 29, 2011, 06:33:05 AM
Absolutely, and there better be some big time progress in Conference record, scheduling, recruiting big time studs, and dance progress---and please spare the excuses--2.5 million zoidies?? That is big time cash!!!
Is it your cash? If not, then why are you so bothered by it? Yes, our conference record was worse this year than last year and the year before. Some cite inexperience as the explanation, and Buzz repeatedly has stated that this years team had a combined 8 years of Big East experience. But for me, the real issue is the tone. You speak of our performance as if we won 1 or 2 games in the Big East. We were .500, and we are not Depaul. Willie, the world is not coming to an end. Dance progress, we made it to the sweet sixteen. Isn't that progress? I am not trying to make excuses, but I really do think that you should re-read some of your posts. You are flat out wrong in what you wrote above.
Quote from: Goose on March 30, 2011, 10:30:40 AM
Rawdog--I am afraid we are looking at increases on yearly basis because we have set the table for that happening. My only concern on paying Buzz all this money is that we might be doing it for wrong reason. I hope they believe Buzz is FF type guy and not S16 every few years.
We have shown that money is not a major obstacle and that is good thing. Now we need to return to surpass the investment.
I agree that we're potentially setting the table for future problems, but I also think that it's really important to lock Buzz up, show a gesture of commitment, etc.
As for the reason, I believe there's more to the reason from the Administration's point of view than basketball results. Obviously there are some requirements when it comes to bb results, but I think they're paying him for more than that.
Quote from: brewcity77 on March 29, 2011, 11:33:00 PM
- Darius Johnson-Odom: Immense JUCO transfer has been better than anyone expected, leading scorer this year and possible 20 ppg scorer next year
I'm not sure I agree with this. DJO was a name that came out of nowhere when Buzz signed him, but I feel like expectations were pretty high. We heard that some big names (I want to say UK and Pitt?) would have been on him except for the fact that they didn't know he was eligible after one year in JUCO. I also remember reading one scout's take that he was the most impressive guard recruit he'd seen all year other than John Wall.
I personally expected him to be All-BE at some point, so I'd say he has met my expectations but not necessarily exceeded them.
Memory's a little fuzzy after a couple years, and I didn't feel like checking Scoop archives. Feel free to correct me.
Everyone remember where we were at the end of the Mike Deane era. We were bordering on obscurity and irrelevance. Now we are in the the top 30-40 programs nationwide. We are in rare air right now. So the cost of the coach being paid $1.5 million or 2.5 million is irrelevant. The investments of the last dozen years are bearing fruit. Whether it will be Buzz or someone else, getting and retaining top coaching talent will be expensive. Get over it.
TJ---Locking Buzz up was the right call. If we had or lose Buzz it definitely takes away credibility from the school. Paying the Buzzer big money does change the game. What if Buzz has S16 team next year and leaves after next season. Are we going to pay a new up and comer $1.5m or elite coach $3.5m? We have not established a payscale at MU that cannot reversed without taking big step backwards.
If all we want is continuity there are a ton of middle of the road guys that would stay here for a decade at a $1m a year. We have shown that we are not just looking for continuity in a coach, but we also are paying one to win in big way.
Many on here bash Bo Ryan and UW for being losers or underachievers and I have no problem with that. However, they have kept a coach for a decade at a song of a price and he has 3 S16's and E8 and winningest BT regular season coach ever. If we are paying Buzz twice what Bo gets then he better win big or we are suckers.
Quote from: Goose on March 30, 2011, 01:57:59 PM
TJ---Locking Buzz up was the right call. If we had or lose Buzz it definitely takes away credibility from the school. Paying the Buzzer big money does change the game. What if Buzz has S16 team next year and leaves after next season. Are we going to pay a new up and comer $1.5m or elite coach $3.5m? We have not established a payscale at MU that cannot reversed without taking big step backwards.
If all we want is continuity there are a ton of middle of the road guys that would stay here for a decade at a $1m a year. We have shown that we are not just looking for continuity in a coach, but we also are paying one to win in big way.
Many on here bash Bo Ryan and UW for being losers or underachievers and I have no problem with that. However, they have kept a coach for a decade at a song of a price and he has 3 S16's and E8 and winningest BT regular season coach ever. If we are paying Buzz twice what Bo gets then he better win big or we are suckers.
I agree. But I'm thinking they probably were trying to hire that guy that would stay here for a decade in Buzz. And hopefully Buzz feels the same way.
Goose - yes. But it will probably be more like 10% rather than 30%.
If he does something great then whatever, pay up for keeps.
We have been the #2 team in spending in the big east. Head coach salary should also be a function of how much dough is in the department.