This seems to be further proof that the best teams doesn't always win the title. It's all about who's hot at the right time. Jay Bilas didn't even think VCU should be in the tournament, and here they are playing another mid major for the chance to play for the entire thing.
I'm convinced more than ever that the best team doesn't always win the title...as Al McGuire said and so many others. That's the beauty of the tournament.
No #1 seeds in the Final Four...fun stuff.
Yup!
Well to answer your question (which is detailed in another thread) ... exactly 2 of 5.9 million brackets on ESPN had the final four correct. So, 2 out of every 5.9 million think the best teams are in the Final Four.
and sometimes the best team coached by the best coach never makes it out of the sweet 16 and often loses to higher seeds...
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on March 27, 2011, 08:57:33 PM
This seems to be further proof that the best teams doesn't always win the title. It's all about who's hot at the right time. Jay Bilas didn't even think VCU should be in the tournament, and here they are playing another mid major for the chance to play for the entire thing.
I'm convinced more than ever that the best team doesn't always win the title...as Al McGuire said and so many others. That's the beauty of the tournament.
No #1 seeds in the Final Four...fun stuff.
Usually not. 1977 baby. That's what makes this the best sporting event of the year.
http://blogs.wsj.com/dailyfix/2010/04/02/the-count-the-best-ncaa-team-doesnt-always-win/
"Sports Reference's Neil Paine calculated this two ways, using actual data and also using a simulation. Using the Reference site's Simple Rating System, he figures that in eight of the last 30 years, the best team in the nation won the tournament — including the last two years, when North Carolina and Kansas won it all. That's 27% of the time."
Quote from: ringout on March 27, 2011, 09:20:34 PM
Usually not. 1977 baby. That's what makes this the best sporting event of the year.
Agree completely. We're about to crown a Tournament Champion and a National Champion, but not the best team in the country. Not with a one and done tournament...that's what makes it so great. The best team in the country USUALLY doesn't win which is why it's so great.
Often the team with the best regular season record fails to win the World Series, Super Bowl, NBA Championship or Stanley Cup. Same is true with the NCAA tournament. Regular seasons are for qualifying for the right to prove who the best team is. The better you do in the "qualifying", the easier your path to the championship. The "best team" is ultimately determined on the court, diamond, gridiron or ice in the postseason. Nobody cares who had the most wins in the regular season.
Nope. NBA playoffs decide who the best team is...the tourney doesn't
Quote from: ringout on March 27, 2011, 09:20:34 PM
Usually not. 1977 baby. That's what makes this the best sporting event of the year.
+1 - at that time we were the losingest team to have won the tourney! Single elimination tourneys allow many permutations that may eliminate the best teams - this year clearly is one. But that's what it's all about!
That Butler-VCU game might be one of the most unwatchable games in tournament history. Poo-poo platter.
Quote from: lab_warrior on March 27, 2011, 09:46:20 PM
That Butler-VCU game might be one of the most unwatchable games in tournament history. Poo-poo platter.
It will have low ratings, but I don't think it will be unwatchable. I like watching Havoc in action, while both Mack and Howard are very good players. I expect a hard-fought semifinal with two teams playing good ball right now. Just because America won't watch doesn't mean it will be bad television, just like Sports Night on CSC...
I think it will have very high ratings. The one thing wrong with the tournament is that it is almost always going to be won by the four elite teams; North Carolina, Kansas, Duke and Kentucky. The tournament is all about rooting for the non-elite.
Sometimes they do, and sometimes they don't. That said, If Kentucky wins, I'm not sure the best team will not have won the title. They may not have been the best team at the start of the year, but I think you could make a case that they are at this point (A discussion I had Friday night, before they beat OSU. I thought they would win because I thought they were the better team).
Was North Carolina the best team when Chris Webber called time out?
Quote from: bilsu on March 28, 2011, 08:20:37 AM
I think it will have very high ratings. The one thing wrong with the tournament is that it is almost always going to be won by the four elite teams; North Carolina, Kansas, Duke and Kentucky. The tournament is all about rooting for the non-elite.
Almost, but I think it's about rooting for the non-elite against the elite. People will more likely watch the Final to see either Butler or VCU have a chance to take down mighty UConn or Kentucky, but 99% of America could care less which minnow makes it there.
Like Duke or not, people will watch them either to win or lose. There's no such polarizing team in this year's Final Four, certainly not Butler or VCU.
I always thought this was a dumb argument. College basketball might as well go to a BCS system if people think that.
Should Packer fans feel tainted then that as a #6 seed, who needed a bunch of breaks to make the playoffs to begin with, they were not the best team, yet won the Super Bowl?
List could go on forever...Marquette in '77, NC State '83, Nova '85, NY Football Giants '08. If that was the case, the Yankees or Red Sox should probably just be handed the World Series trophy every April 1st, don't even bother playing the season.
UConn is the best team in the country RIGHT NOW. So yes.
Its hard to argue against it, they have won 9 straight postseason tournament games.
Who cares.
This question is all over the air today and I just don't get the big deal. The winner of the tournement simply wins the tournement. Who cares if it was the best team.(is it really possible to determine who the best team is) People take this way too seriously like its something enshired for the ages. The ride is what is supposed to be fun.
Is the real purpose for the tournament to identify the best team in the country or win an NCAA Championship? I thinks it's to win a championship. Who cares who's the best team in the country? Just win baby!!!!!!!!!!!!
Quote from: NotAnAlum on March 28, 2011, 11:45:42 AM
This question is all over the air today and I just don't get the big deal.
Agreed, it sounds like whining from the power conferences (or from people who's brackets are busted). In terms of the power conferences/teams - they needed to step up and beat the "not the best teams" if they wanted to keep playing. They didn't, end of story.
Three main factors for winning the title:
- Overall skill as a team
- Momentum, aka, how hot is the team right now
- Luck
This is kind of a pointless thread that was a addressed a couple days ago and I think the conclusion was the same, who cares if the "best team" won or not. Its about the teams are in the tourney here and now.
All i will say is that this tournament IMO has delivered fabulous entertainment value, i've absolutely loved watching it.
Then again, it delivers great entertainment pretty much every year and the ratings reflect it.
I don't think it's pointless or people wouldn't participate in it. The divergence of opinions here also suggests there was no conclusion....a topic that people can't agree on.
I'm in the camp that the tournament crowns a tournament champion. I also agree with Al McGuire, Jay Bilas, etc, etc that the best team doesn't always win the title...that's also why I love the tournament because anything can happen. In sports where a 5 or 7 game series happens, I believe you truly getting the BEST team to win the title. Not the case here and that's just fine.
No Big Conference whining either. In fact, I don't see where that fits into it at all. I want MORE mid majors into the tournament, not less. The more the better. I love that we have a tournament and can determine a tournament champion. I hearken back to the Indiana high school tournament when there were no class championships like there are today. Shame they got rid of it.
Quote from: rocky_warrior on March 28, 2011, 02:11:29 PM
Agreed, it sounds like whining from the power conferences (or from people who's brackets are busted). In terms of the power conferences/teams - they needed to step up and beat the "not the best teams" if they wanted to keep playing. They didn't, end of story.
Agreed. The tournament is stacked to give the "best" teams the easiest routes. They play a cupcake in round one and are usually close to home for rounds one and two. So they have to win 2 or at most 3 "real games" to reach the final 4. Butler had to win 4 and VCU had to win 5. Pretty hard to make the case that your the "best" team when you're run over by a 5 seed (Duke) or gag big time in the spotlight against an 11 seed (Kansas). Usually when there's a true best team in college basketball that team wins the tournament (see Florida twice recently, UNC vs Illinois, all those UCLA teams, etc). Sometimes the true "best team" lose in the championship game (Gtown vs Villanova or Houston vs NC State). I can't remember a team I'd call the "best team" losing in the second or third round, maybe because that's a disqualifier. Maybe this year, like many others, won't produce a "best team". To me that's not important since it will produce a champion.
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on March 28, 2011, 03:07:50 PM
In sports where a 5 or 7 game series happens, I believe you truly getting the BEST team to win the title. Not the case here and that's just fine.
Simply not true. The 1960 Yankees that lost the World Series to Pittsbugh were the vastly superior team. The Twins and Cardinals have won World Series' titles recently after barely .500+ seasons. A hot goalie can routinely power an 8 seed past a 1 in the Stanley Cup. Too many examples to mention that prove your statement false.
Quote from: Lennys Tap on March 28, 2011, 03:35:29 PM
Simply not true. The 1960 Yankees that lost the World Series to Pittsbugh were the vastly superior team. The Twins and Cardinals have won World Series' titles recently after barely .500+ seasons. A hot goalie can routinely power an 8 seed past a 1 in the Stanley Cup. Too many examples to mention that prove your statement false.
+1
2006 Cardinals is a great example. Beat the Tigers, a vastly superior team during the regular season, 4 games to 1
A lot of great stuff this weekend on this topic. Right on target
http://www.bellinghamherald.com/2011/03/31/1945449/this-seasons-ncaa-champion-wont.html
http://isportsweb.com/2011/03/28/ncaa-tournament-perspective-the-best-team-doesnt-always-win/
http://sujuiceonline.com/2011/03/24/jay-bilas-espn-ncaa-tournament/
UConn was not the best team all season, but they were the best team when it mattered most. In the end, that's what counts.
26-2 in points in the paint.
It's a guard's game...and it was ugly.
When I left the bradley center after they smoked us I told the people I was with they would win the title. Obviously a gew weeks later I didn't believe that any more. They were the best team for several stretches this year including the end, but clearly not overall this year.
Quote from: marquette99 on April 04, 2011, 11:14:12 PM
When I left the bradley center after they smoked us I told the people I was with they would win the title. Obviously a gew weeks later I didn't believe that any more. They were the best team for several stretches this year including the end, but clearly not overall this year.
23-0 outside of the Big East for them...
Hard to argue they weren't the best team. They won their preseason tournament, won the BEAST tournament and then won the NCAA tournament. I believe Calhoun used the season to prepare them for tournament play, took some lumps as he developed his extremely young team, and put a solid group of role players around his aircraft carrier. That team just wasn't going to lose in a tournament setting this year.
Quote from: Dr. Blackheart on April 04, 2011, 11:14:03 PM
26-2 in points in the paint.
It's a guard's game...and it was ugly.
Yeah, I wonder if Kellogg still thinks that Butler had a decisive edge in the frontcourt? Inane.
Quote from: wadesworld on April 05, 2011, 12:30:58 AM
23-0 outside of the Big East for them...
Really only 17-0. They were 15-9 vs Big East if you count postseason tournaments (5-0 BET, 1-0 NCAA)
History records Uconn as the Champion. The champion is the best. It is unfair to a competitive sport to diminish, the on field winner by including losers on their pedastal, even in theory. The rest are engaging in a what if, losers argument serving no purpose. Whether you're the best team is an on paper barroom discussion.
I am a huge UH Phi Slamma Jamma fan,...the "best" team, many say, to not win the NCAA. So what.
NC State won the NCAA. The loss stings. But, I have never argued with any NC State alum...but...we were the better team. BS,...they won, we hurt....but the champion deserves all recognition.
As Packer fans would you accept this Super Bowl win, as lesser, subordinate, and inferior to that of say the 1985 Bears....because the Bears, that year, were clearly the best.
Unlike much of life, where things arent clear, nor decided, in sports, thankfully, the champion is the best, that year.
I believe the hottest team won the title. 11 wins in 28 days? Kemba? Throw in never losing against a team outside the BEast and I am completely comfortable with UConn being called national champion.
Funny thing was for UConn, they were a cold team heading in the Big East toury.
Quote from: ATWizJr on April 05, 2011, 06:54:50 AM
Yeah, I wonder if Kellogg still thinks that Butler had a decisive edge in the frontcourt? Inane.
No kidding. It felt like every other shot Butler took was blocked by Oriakhi or Smith.
UCONN certainly earned the right to be called the best team in the country outside of the Big East. Their 17-0 non conference record included a road win against Big 12 runner up Texas, two neutral court wins over SEC best Kentucky, a neutral court win over PAC 10 champ Arizona and a neutral court win over (at the time) Big 10 favorite Michigan State. No other team in the coutry has a non conference record that comes close to that. Given that they redeemed their struggles from the meat grinder that is the Big East regular season by winning the conference tournament, I'd say they earned the right to be called the best.
Side note. When Bobby Knight said it would be harder to win the Big East tourney than the NCAAs a lot of people laughed. Looks like he may have been right.
Quote from: avid1010 on April 05, 2011, 06:14:47 AM
... and put a solid group of role players around his aircraft carrier.
I would argue that POY candidate Kemba Walker is a little more than a role player.
In general I like to see the "best" teams fight it out in the final four but I think as long as you have excitement in a tournament who really cares? I think that applies to all sports really
Quote from: MU B2002 on April 05, 2011, 08:55:26 AM
I would argue that POY candidate Kemba Walker is a little more than a role player.
Kemba is a role player, it's just a really big role!
The tournament is the finite end to the season that is known in advance.
So, while sometimes the "hottest" team wins, we need to keep in mind that coaches and players know that they need to play their best in March to win the title.
A young team like UCONN did start out hot, but experienced growing pains all season.
Credit to them for improving and playing their best ball in March.
Quote from: Victor McCormick on March 28, 2011, 05:18:42 PM
+1
2006 Cardinals is a great example. Beat the Tigers, a vastly superior team during the regular season, 4 games to 1
Baseball is a different sport. The very worst teams still win 1/3 of their games and the very best teams lose 1/3 of their games, which isn't true in the other major sports. I think the NBA is the one US league where the best team wins the vast majority of the time, unless Mark Cuban or someone else who has crossed David Stern owns them.
Quote from: CTWarrior on April 05, 2011, 11:39:06 AM
Baseball is a different sport. The very worst teams still win 1/3 of their games and the very best teams lose 1/3 of their games, which isn't true in the other major sports. I think the NBA is the one US league where the best team wins the vast majority of the time, unless Mark Cuban or someone else who has crossed David Stern owns them.
I think part of that is due to the playoff system in the NBA. 7 Game series throughout really favors the better team because if given enough tries they will pull things out. Granted hockey and baseball have 7 game series but in baseball one game isn't a fair thing because of the amount of pitchers that can affect a series. Hockey if your goalie is having a terrible night there is not much you can do about it. But in basketball more so than in other sports on player's off night can be covered by other players.