What do ya think Shaka Smart will/should command? And, where does the cat move on from VCU? Very impressive and smoking', white hot.
If Buzz gets $2 million you would think Smart gets more. Honestly the whole pay scale based off expectations and not long term success is crazy. To me it is like the 1st pick in NFL draft being highest paid guy in the league---pretty stupid IMO.
Quote from: Goose on March 27, 2011, 02:25:41 PM
If Buzz gets $2 million you would think Smart gets more. Honestly the whole pay scale based off expectations and not long term success is crazy. To me it is like the 1st pick in NFL draft being highest paid guy in the league---pretty stupid IMO.
Agree with your comments. It will be interesting to see if Smart does leave. If so, where.
If Buzz had left, he was one I really would have wanted MU to strongly consider.
I think Smart gets 1.5 per year with escalators. This is a great run, potentially a Final Four with a very unexpected team if they can hold on, but you don't get max money at a BCS school until you prove you can do it at a BCS school. Buzz has done that. I could see Smart going to Missouri and getting 1.5/year, but quickly being upped to 2+ per year if he can recruit consistently at that level and make a tourney run or two.
Still, this is his first NCAA bid and his only real work (no, I don't count winning the CBI last year as a major accomplishment) of note. One year does not a top-level coach make.
totally lazy observation, but does anyone think that Shaka Smart and Buzz look very similar in their mannerisms and behavior during games? they seem to cut to Shaka quite a bit and he's very animated, but especially while he's yelling out commands.
Quote from: Goose on March 27, 2011, 02:25:41 PM
If Buzz gets $2 million you would think Smart gets more. Honestly the whole pay scale based off expectations and not long term success is crazy. To me it is like the 1st pick in NFL draft being highest paid guy in the league---pretty stupid IMO.
I agree. We should have not coined out so much for Buzz--if true--because he has not put us at the next level, yet.
But it appears that the mony is ponied up, so results should be forthcoming. Can't use the excuse that Buzz is building the program. he is going into his 4th year--5th id you count his assistant year. That is enough time.
Nah, Buzz always wears a jacket. Besides, his neck size is 18.5 inches, Smart's is probably no greater than 15.
vacillating defense and his inability to recruit that all around high ranked PF would be the only things to give me pause for giving 2 mil to Buzz. (Gardner stud on O, not very good rebounding, d) He has earned it with the BE finishes and NCAA runs and pouring his heart and soul into the program though.
Need BE progress next year though or first NIT might be notched up.
The other difference is that shaka makes $700k a year compared to Buzz's $2 million. So if he gets the same raise Buzz got he'll be at $1.2 million and you better believe somebody can afford that.
MUArmy--What kind of logic is that. You get paid by performing. In a same but different example Wesley was paid current contract because of his first year performance. If you believe is hotter commodity than Smart you are mistaken. Not saying Smart is better or not but his upside is off the charts.
Quote from: Goose on March 27, 2011, 02:25:41 PM
If Buzz gets $2 million you would think Smart gets more. Honestly the whole pay scale based off expectations and not long term success is crazy. To me it is like the 1st pick in NFL draft being highest paid guy in the league---pretty stupid IMO.
Buzz isn't making more than Bill Self, so I don't think that analogy is fair. While I get what you're pointing to, I think you pay a coach what you feel you need to pay him to keep him. The value of anything is what you can "sell" it for. It sounds like MU could have "sold" Buzz for $3.8 million and $2+ million per year. That's what his value is. If you think Oklahoma is nuts, call their bluff, and bring in a different coach. If not, pay the man. You may not like the system, but that's not MU's call, they're just stuck in it like everyone else.
Avid--You are only stuck in the pay scale level you chose to be in. Plenty of schools keep coaches for long period of time and pay them far less. MU has decided to play big boy ball and I applaud that. Not every school in D1 is willing to pay this kind of money. It shows to me that MU wants to be Kansas and not Northwestern. Personally I love they are spending the money.
Quote from: Goose on March 27, 2011, 04:35:16 PM
Avid--You are only stuck in the pay scale level you chose to be in. Plenty of schools keep coaches for long period of time and pay them far less. MU has decided to play big boy ball and I applaud that. Not every school in D1 is willing to pay this kind of money. It shows to me that MU wants to be Kansas and not Northwestern. Personally I love they are spending the money.
Last year DePaul was willing to throw money around and do whatever it took to get a big name coach. They spent $1.7 million/year for Oliver Purnell. 365 days ago this was a big number.
Now MU is spending $2 million/year to keep Buzz and OU is reported to be willing to go above $2 million/year for Capel's replacement. And we still have Tennessee, Missouri, NC State and others to yet send money.
As I noted in the other thread. Buzz will be getting top 20 money Friday. Might be top 25 money in two weeks and top 30 money in a year.
He is not overpayed.
Never said Buzz was overpaid. If MU thinks Buzz will be a star coach with NCAA success I don't care if they pay him $5 million a year. Again, if we are paying him to win more I am all for it. I am trusting MU brass thinks Buzz is top guy going forward. They believe that we have a chance to be an elite program.
In addition, since we have a habit of giving raises quite freely I would think Buzz would be rewarded with such if he wins or gets other job offers. Doubt if we are S16 again next year that Buzz would have same contract the next year.
Quote from: Goose on March 27, 2011, 04:35:16 PM
Avid--You are only stuck in the pay scale level you chose to be in. Plenty of schools keep coaches for long period of time and pay them far less. MU has decided to play big boy ball and I applaud that. Not every school in D1 is willing to pay this kind of money. It shows to me that MU wants to be Kansas and not Northwestern. Personally I love they are spending the money.
I get that, but I also believe you have to pay based on your situation. If Buzz makes as much as Roy Williams should MU be as good at UNC? I don't think it's as easy as saying Buzz is the 3rd highest paid coach in the BEAST so he should finish no worse than 3rd in the BEAST. MU is trying to play big boy ball, but I don't think Northwestern could turn their program into a consistent NCAA tourney team by paying a coach $2 million a year.
Quote from: Goose on March 27, 2011, 04:57:58 PM
Never said Buzz was overpaid. If MU thinks Buzz will be a star coach with NCAA success I don't care if they pay him $5 million a year. Again, if we are paying him to win more I am all for it. I am trusting MU brass thinks Buzz is top guy going forward. They believe that we have a chance to be an elite program.
In addition, since we have a habit of giving raises quite freely I would think Buzz would be rewarded with such if he wins or gets other job offers. Doubt if we are S16 again next year that Buzz would have same contract the next year.
I think if a school in that is near Buzz's roots offers $2.5 million after next year we'll match unless we think we can do better for the same or less...not too complicated.
Quote from: avid1010 on March 27, 2011, 05:03:05 PM
If Buzz makes as much as Roy Williams should MU be as good at UNC?
Better description is UNC pays their coach as much as MU. Roy makes A LOT more in personal appearances, camps and other endorsement deals. I would not be surprised if these outside ventures pay him MORE than UNC. IF Roy leaves UNC (except for very few schools or possibly the NBA), he risks this outside money. Ditto Coach K. This is why the schools can get away with paying them less.
Quote from: avid1010 on March 27, 2011, 05:03:05 PM
I get that, but I also believe you have to pay based on your situation. If Buzz makes as much as Roy Williams should MU be as good at UNC? I don't think it's as easy as saying Buzz is the 3rd highest paid coach in the BEAST so he should finish no worse than 3rd in the BEAST. MU is trying to play big boy ball, but I don't think Northwestern could turn their program into a consistent NCAA tourney team by paying a coach $2 million a year.
The idea that expectations are directly tied to salary is a bit silly. As you say, it's not as easy as saying Buzz should get third place for being the third highest paid. What if Blue erupts, Wilson is better than expected, and Crowder is Hayward reborn? Say we win the Big East, should we cut Buzz a quick check to make sure he's properly compensated?
The simple truth is that Buzz has us going in the right direction. Our current payments are an investment in his continued success at Marquette. There will be up years and down years no matter how much we pay him. We just have to hope that, like his coaching abilities, he grows into his salary. (And no, that's not saying he's bad, just saying that I'm hoping for him to mature and improve)
Marquette has plenty of money and they are Jesuits, the accountants of the church. They would have more money if they would go back to the 'Warriors" which over 80% of the alumni want done.
Quote from: AlienWarrior on March 27, 2011, 05:15:16 PM
Marquette has plenty of money and they are Jesuits, the accountants of the church. They would have more money if they would go back to the 'Warriors" which over 80% of the alumni want done.
Already been discussed this week at least once. And that's probably not the case, if you take Potowatomie money into account.
Who's to say Shaka Smart isn't the next Stan Heath?
If you're going to bend over for a young coach, it's Stevens. He just stole a Final Four with a shitty team. That's coaching.
Three years ago wasn't Shaka Smart pronounced as Keno Davis?
Well, there are significant differences between Smart and Davis. First off, Smart has experience at the highest levels of college basketball. He was the lead recruiter for many of the Florida players that made up this years team. Second, he has actually succeeded in the tournament...Davis lost in the first round.
Quote from: Goose on March 27, 2011, 02:25:41 PM
If Buzz gets $2 million you would think Smart gets more. Honestly the whole pay scale based off expectations and not long term success is crazy. To me it is like the 1st pick in NFL draft being highest paid guy in the league---pretty stupid IMO.
Based on trends - How much is Brad Stevens worth now? $3M/per...?
VCU coaches are now somewhat driving on their predecessors gas after three successive coaches with success (?). But Smart having the recruiting chops would make me believe he could get the talent into his program to maintain it. Hell of a run, showed he can get his players to play with their nuts out in the big games. Back to back pretty successful seasons for Shaka. I'd be happy to roll the dice on him personally but I understand the hesitation to put him at the elite pay rate.