What a game by Butler. 2nd straight Final Four. Incredible achievement
Its unreal what Brad Stevens does. Wow.
But but but they are an 8 seed and shouldn't be there.
Agree, they play best when it matters. They were pedestrian for a good bunch of this year. Perhaps the Final Four hangover, but they have it going right now. Classic example of why seed means squat, it's all about how good the team is not what your seed says. Insert VCU in same comment.
So nice to see Mid Majors in the Final Four. I feared a Final Four with the usual cast of characters (Kentucky, North Carolina, UConn, Arizona, Kansas, etc.). Now a VCU win would be awesome.
It's unfortunate that Butler and VCU can't meet in the championship game.
VCU's band was lots of fun at the United Center last weekend.
My intent is not to turn this into a pissing match over Crean.
How strong are the vibes at IU Chicos to get rid of Crean right now for Stephens? Any degree of seriousness to them, or just message-board banter? Crean's got another 4 years and 9.2M on his contract IIRC? Assume that's a buyout IU could take care of if that's an issue?
For everybody, if not IU eventually for Stephens (i.e. Crean stays one more year and gets it turned around next year), is Stephens the guy who eventually replaces Coach K at Duke when he retires (oldest guy among the top 6 or 7 programs in the country, places like UCLA, UK, Duke, UNC, KU, IU, UL, etc). Or maybe the guy to replace Calipari at UK or Pitino at UL if the heat gets too hot at some point?
The guy can flat out coach. It really is amazing watch his program and how they play with no fear of losing. Of all the "hot" young coaches we read about this is probably the guy to be around for a long time. I always get a kick out of how guys become hot commodities and often flame out. He might be the next Coach K.
If I were an IU fan, which thankfully I am not, I would be on every web site yelling to get rid of TC for Stephens. For the record I think TC is a very good coach but Stephens might end up being really special.
Horizon League!! ;D ;D ;D ;D
Quote from: Eye on March 26, 2011, 06:23:30 PM
My intent is not to turn this into a pissing match over Crean.
How strong are the vibes at IU Chicos to get rid of Crean right now for Stephens? Any degree of seriousness to them, or just message-board banter? Crean's got another 4 years and 9.2M on his contract IIRC? Assume that's a buyout IU could take care of if that's an issue?
For everybody, if not IU eventually for Stephens (i.e. Crean stays one more year and gets it turned around next year), is Stephens the guy who eventually replaces Coach K at Duke when he retires (oldest guy among the top 6 or 7 programs in the country, places like UCLA, UK, Duke, UNC, KU, IU, UL, etc). Or maybe the guy to replace Calipari at UK or Pitino at UL if the heat gets too hot at some point?
A few things. It's Stevens.
Stevens is a
Butler DePauw alum, not an IU alum. Not that it matters, but he could have jumped ship last year to any number of schools and didn't. His dad played football at IU so that is the "IU connection". If Crean doesn't work out, obviously Stevens is right there. Are they going to dump 7 years of contract with Crean considering all the players he has coming in the next 3 years? I doubt it.
Butler is loosing a lot this year, including the heart and soul of their team. What happens to them next year?
EDIT: Fixed his alma mater
BU has Mack, Nored and Smith back. That guy Hopkins that never plays looked pretty good today. People said that this season after they lost Gorden Hayward
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on March 26, 2011, 06:37:08 PM
A few things. It's Stevens.
Stevens is a Butler alum, not an IU alum. Not that it matters, but he could have jumped ship last year to any number of schools and didn't. His dad played football at IU so that is the "IU connection". If Crean doesn't work out, obviously Stevens is right there. Are they going to dump 7 years of contract with Crean considering all the players he has coming in the next 3 years? I doubt it.
Butler is loosing a lot this year, including the heart and soul of their team. What happens to them next year?
Good post, only one correction. Stevens is a DePauw alum.
Quote from: mupanther on March 26, 2011, 06:41:40 PM
BU has Mack, Nored and Smith back. That guy Hopkins that never plays looked pretty good today. People said that this season after they lost Gorden Hayward
Yup, but who is there heart and soul? Butler is still going to be very good, especially in that league. The loss of Matt Howard is the heart and soul.
Any word on Jeter yet? Staying or going?
I think Stevens is a Depauw alum.
Quote from: whodem on March 26, 2011, 06:45:14 PM
Good post, only one correction. Stevens is a DePauw alum.
Thank you....my bad. Appreciate the correction. Then he's sure to be IU's coach any day now. :D
Stevens is a great game coach and this is probably the best 2-year run by a mid-major ever, but he hasn't done enough to prove to me he's the next great coach in college basketball. He took a handful of 3-stars that proved to be better than the scouting reports said. Will he be able to continue to unearth such gems? If he did jump ship, will he be able to translate his recruiting practices to the high-major level, where you're recruiting 4 and 5 star players with starry NBA eyes?
And if he's a Butler alum (apparently he's not ;) ), will he ever make the move to a bigger school? Can he realistically build a dynasty at a university with a total student base of under 5,000? Gonzaga built a lot of success, but they've never become a national power. After the current class leaves, will Butler's peak be about what Gonzaga's is, creeping into the 20-25 range while making the occasional Sweet 16?
If he does leave, how will he handle the pressure of a higher profile job. The idea of taking over for K at Cameron seems like an awfully daunting task. The guy has four years of coaching experience. And that's four years in a very, very, very small fishbowl. Getting the same results at Duke or Indiana when you're facing off against the UNCs, Wake Forests, Ohio States, and Michigan States of the world every night is a different game.
I like Stevens. I think he's done a great coach. But anyone putting him in the Hall of Fame based on two successful years has that cart waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay out in front of the horse.
Its not inconceivable...if he stays...that Butler will be the next Duke....especially if they can move to a new conference. Does their success help us if the Big East football schools leave?
Does anyone else think that Butler's campus has a similar look and feel to Duke's?
Stevens will break Coach K's record if he stays at Butler (30 wins a year will do that).
Quote from: Knight Commission on March 26, 2011, 07:02:09 PMIts not inconceivable...if he stays...that Butler will be the next Duke....especially if they can move to a new conference.
I can't see it. Duke has one of the most influential alumni bases in the nation and has a student population more than triple the size of Butler's. Duke also spends more money on their college basketball program than any other school in the nation. There's a very long road between two Final Fours and Duke-level success.
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on March 26, 2011, 06:46:20 PM
Yup, but who is there heart and soul? Butler is still going to be very good, especially in that league. The loss of Matt Howard is the heart and soul.
Any word on Jeter yet? Staying or going?
Matt Howard is huge loss for Butler. They just seem to re-load.
Rob Jeter turned down the job at Bradley, to stay at UWM.
Butler is no Duke, they have a lot more class
Quote from: Midget Bar on March 26, 2011, 07:20:26 PM
Butler is no Duke, they have a lot more class
Spoken like someone who lives in the mid-Atlantic region...
Quote from: Knight Commission on March 26, 2011, 07:22:52 PM
Spoken like someone who lives in the mid-Atlantic region...
Nope. Spoken like someone who has had significant contact with Duke alums.
Butler doesn't have the national alumni base of Duke, but they have a huge base of wealthy alumni...and since they don't have scholarship football, they throw a ton of money at the basketball program. Yes Howard is gone next year, but they have had a couple of fantastic recruiting years.
That being said, the issue regarding their conference I think is one they need to deal with. They are trying to get into the A10, but there just is no room at this point.
Crean's sphincter must be tightening up with every post season Butler win. Hope they win the national title. That said, Stephens has probably earned the right to chose any college job he wants.
Quote from: Eye on March 26, 2011, 06:23:30 PM
My intent is not to turn this into a pissing match over Crean.
How strong are the vibes at IU Chicos to get rid of Crean right now for Stephens? Any degree of seriousness to them, or just message-board banter? Crean's got another 4 years and 9.2M on his contract IIRC? Assume that's a buyout IU could take care of if that's an issue?
For everybody, if not IU eventually for Stephens (i.e. Crean stays one more year and gets it turned around next year), is Stephens the guy who eventually replaces Coach K at Duke when he retires (oldest guy among the top 6 or 7 programs in the country, places like UCLA, UK, Duke, UNC, KU, IU, UL, etc). Or maybe the guy to replace Calipari at UK or Pitino at UL if the heat gets too hot at some point?
I was talking to a badger friend today. We, after consoling each other for the offensive ineptitude we both displayed in the Sweet 16, talked about Buzz and Crean. He made a comment that I tend to agree. When Crean left MU, he felt it would be easier to recruit in Indy. I don't think he factored in Butler and Stevens in that thought process. The only Indianapolis based D1 school, Stevens could really parlay this into a lifetime job at Butler and not just make a name for himself at Butler, but nationally.
I have it on very good authority that Crean has a "leash" of 2 more years before hard decisions start being made.
Quote from: 4everwarriors on March 26, 2011, 07:49:42 PM
Crean's sphincter must be tightening up with every post season Butler win. Hope they win the national title. That said, Stephens has probably earned the right to chose any college job he wants.
It's STEVENS
;D
If anyone's sphincter is tightening up, it's Matt Painter. Tons of rumors he is going to Missouri and leaving his alma mater. He's getting killed in recruiting by Crean right now.
http://www.stltoday.com/sports/columns/bernie-miklasz/article_a4445fc4-57d2-11e0-83b5-0017a4a78c22.html
http://www.theboilingpoints.com/2011/03/painter-to-missouri-rumors-floating.html
http://www.yardbarker.com/all_sports/articles/on_campus_matt_painter_missouri_rumor_heats_up/4446050
I don't think it will happen with Painter, but they are definitely losing the in-state recruiting battles for the next three classes.
Quote from: MUMac on March 26, 2011, 08:07:08 PM
I was talking to a badger friend today. We, after consoling each other for the offensive ineptitude we both displayed in the Sweet 16, talked about Buzz and Crean. He made a comment that I tend to agree. When Crean left MU, he felt it would be easier to recruit in Indy. I don't think he factored in Butler and Stevens in that thought process.
Uhm, what players has IU lost to Butler? I'm being serious...they have 9 kids coming in that are all 4 or 5 star kids and didn't lose a one to Butler
Thanks Chicos, I stand erected.
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on March 26, 2011, 08:28:24 PM
Uhm, what players has IU lost to Butler? I'm being serious...they have 9 kids coming in that are all 4 or 5 star kids and didn't lose a one to Butler
Uhm, I didn't say they did. But, the Indianapolis market has and will continue to tighten. Sorry to piss on your love interest. Oh, wait, that was Deane and you hated Crean until Buzz was hired. I forgot.
Quote from: MUMac on March 26, 2011, 09:02:48 PM
Uhm, I didn't say they did. But, the Indianapolis market has and will continue to tighten. Sorry to piss on your love interest. Oh, wait, that was Deane and you hated Crean until Buzz was hired. I forgot.
We'll see. When Butler starts getting kids over IU and PU then come talking to me. My love interest is my wife and kids. Hated to see Deane fired as he was a colleague...MU waited nearly a month to hire TC. After the very first press conference and my one on one meeting with him later that day, I was ready. Sorry your facts don't jive with reality but whatever. Was I still bummed that Deane got fired? Yup, even stated so for many months later. Hated that he didn't get 5 years, but it was absolutely the right thing to do...no one can deny that. I assume you realize that a person can be bummed that a colleague was fired but still understand that the new guy is going to do a better job. Happens in business all the time and certainly in sports.
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on March 26, 2011, 09:07:38 PM
We'll see. When Butler starts getting kids over IU and PU then come talking to me. My love interest is my wife and kids. Hated to see Deane fired as he was a colleague...MU waited nearly a month to hire TC. After the very first press conference and my one on one meeting with him later that day, I was ready. Sorry your facts don't jive with reality but whatever. Was I still bummed that Deane got fired? Yup, even stated so for many months later. Hated that he didn't get 5 years, but it was absolutely the right thing to do...no one can deny that. I assume you realize that a person can be bummed that a colleague was fired but still understand that the new guy is going to do a better job. Happens in business all the time and certainly in sports.
Facts are correct. You were the same boorish buffoon with Crean as you are with Buzz. Many chided you that you lost your drinking buddy and were upset. My memory is rock solid. Yours? typical chico's revisionist history.
BTW, why did it take MU a month to hire Crean? Think it had anything to do with MSU getting to the Final 4? Nah, couldn't be. Just another cheap, weak and false attempt to try and take a stab at the hiring process or Buzz. Truly pathetic chico's, truly pathetic.
Have at the last response. Any discussion with you is a waste of time.
That is correct, it took a month because they(MSU) was in the tournament. Who said anything differently? Sheesh.
Deane, my drinking buddy? LOL. Crean my love interest? Good Lord, are you 15?
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on March 26, 2011, 09:18:59 PM
That is correct, it took a month because they(MSU) was in the tournament. Who said anything differently? Sheesh.
Deane, my drinking buddy? LOL. Crean my love interest? Good Lord, are you 15?
As for the MSU part, why mention it took a month then, eh? No alterior motive chico's? Right, it really was necessary for what purpose then?
I said others said Deane was your drinking buddy, not me. Good Lord, can you read? If so, can you comprehend what you read?
Thanks for the childish comment. I thought you said you were above such? Oh, that is only when you play the victim card, right? ::)
Since folks brought up recruiting in this thread, here's a comparison of Marquette's and Butler's recruting since 2007, with stars and rankings from Rivals network.
Marquette
2007: Scott Christopherson*** Pat Hazel***
2008: Joe Fulce*** Chris Otule** Jimmy Butler
2009: Junior Cadougan**** Jeronne Maymon**** Erik Williams**** Dwight Buycks*** DJO*** Yous Mbao***
2010: Vander Blue***** Jamail Jones**** Reggie Smith*** Jae Crowder*** Davant Gardner***
2011: Juan Anderson**** Derrick Wilson*** Todd Mayo***
Butler
2007: Matt Howard**** Zach Hahn*** Shawn Vanzant** Jermain Raffington**
2008: Gordon Hayward*** Shelvin Mack*** Ronald Nored*** Chase Stigall** Garrett Butcher** Emerson Kampen
2009: Andrew Smith***
2010: Khyle Marshall*** Chrishawn Hopkins*** Erik Fromm
2011: Cameron Woods*** Andrew Smeathers*** Roosevelt Jones***
I think Butler's run this year is more impressive than last year, by far. Last year, I thought (improperly, probably) they got a little lucky getting to face Syracuse without Onuaku and Wes Johnson playing but injured and KSU after their 2-OT game. The MSU game I thought was their most impressive game. Plus there was a lot of talk about the weak field, which I tend to agree with.
This year, they beat strength on strength halfcourt teams in Pitt and Wisconsin and then overcome that second half deficit against Florida, who is very good at every position and it appeared for most of the game had them dominated in the frontcourt. Cannot believe how bad they made FL's guards look. I hope Butler plays Kansas. Shaping up to be a good Final Four.
Quote from: MUMac on March 26, 2011, 09:25:18 PM
As for the MSU part, why mention it took a month then, eh? No alterior motive chico's? Right, it really was necessary for what purpose then?
I said others said Deane was your drinking buddy, not me. Good Lord, can you read? If so, can you comprehend what you read?
Thanks for the childish comment. I thought you said you were above such? Oh, that is only when you play the victim card, right? ::)
Sigh
Because, Mac, in that month of time between hiring and firing I was able to go through a lot of reflection...the wounds healed...that's why. It was a pretty wild time to be in the department with all kinds of rumors on who was to be the coach. Plus we were hosting the NCAA Tournament at the Bradley Center...it was pretty crazy.
You did say that others claimed that he was my drinking buddy....weren't you doing the same thing by bringing it up? No ulterior motive Mac? ;D
For the record, that final year of Mike Deane's tenure we weren't allowed to drink publicly at ALL after games. That was an edict put down from Father Leahy and Bill Cords because of an incident that occurred the year prior at one of the bars on campus and a member of the Athletic Department. My memory is rock solid Mac and the drinking buddy and love interest is just childish on your part, whatever your motives.
Even after they lose howard, Butler will be able to compete as long as stevens is there. I'm a huge Butler fan from Indy, and ever since about 2001 the Butler program has just been managed superbly.
Yeah, just shows that mid majors can get the job done. Now.....
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on March 27, 2011, 01:10:05 AM
Sigh
Because, Mac, in that month of time between hiring and firing I was able to go through a lot of reflection...the wounds healed...that's why. It was a pretty wild time to be in the department with all kinds of rumors on who was to be the coach. Plus we were hosting the NCAA Tournament at the Bradley Center...it was pretty crazy.
You did say that others claimed that he was my drinking buddy....weren't you doing the same thing by bringing it up? No ulterior motive Mac? ;D
For the record, that final year of Mike Deane's tenure we weren't allowed to drink publicly at ALL after games. That was an edict put down from Father Leahy and Bill Cords because of an incident that occurred the year prior at one of the bars on campus and a member of the Athletic Department. My memory is rock solid Mac and the drinking buddy and love interest is just childish on your part, whatever your motives.
The only question I have is whether it was a month to *find* a replacement for Deane, or MU simply had to wait until MSU was out of the tournament to *annouce* it.
The story I had always heard was that Cords had made his mind up after speaking with Crean while MSU was at the Bradley Center for the NCAA tournament that year--but he couldn't announce anything for obvious reasons.
Marquette84--MU had decided on TC when MSU played at BC is correct. He was their first choice and needed to wait until NCAA run was completed.