MUScoop
MUScoop => Hangin' at the Al => Topic started by: Clam Crowder on March 24, 2011, 03:49:02 PM
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http://www.dallasnews.com/sports/college-sports/headlines/20110324-pieces-falling-into-place-for-the-sooners-to-land-marquette-coach-buzz-williams.ece?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter
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Lost credibility when he said that one-year salary is the normal buyout of a bball head coach contract.
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Good. I am just posting what I see out there, and hope none of this comes to fruition. I really want Buzz to stay. Without him God knows how many would transfer or decommit. We need him here.
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Fullodds beat me to it.
More speculation, bookmark it and make fun of them later.
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There's also this I found on the OU board.
http://ouhoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=21116
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Marquette is bigger than any one coach.
We NEED the MU administration to stay motivated and sharp.
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Same writer wrote a column last week saying OU should hire Buzz.
He lost me here:
"People who downgrade the appeal of his defensive-minded style are missing the point."
Buzz coaches a defensive-minded style? News to us.
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Fullodds beat me to it.
More speculation, bookmark it and make fun of them later.
Maybe...then again, the rumors in this article are pretty strong about mutual interest. Either someone is lying or their is truthiness to it.
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Yeah that writer even according to the next post on that board is just trying to sell papers...I wasn't a big time follower of Marquette basketball when the Crean stuff hit the fan. Was it the same rumors going around?
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There's also this I found on the OU board.
http://ouhoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=21116
That's something I don't see Buzz doing. Telling other coaches he's interested in a job? Come on.
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I think this a lot of "he said she said." I think Buzz is a stand up guy. I don't think anyone knows the true level of interest in the job from his side except him and maybe his wife. He doesn't have an agent. I think he would not tell anyone his level of interest before this season is over as it would be extremely counterproductive. It doesn't make sense.
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They seem pretty short sighted on Texas being the be all, end all of basketball recruiting. Not to mention OU will always be behind Kansas and Texas in the pecking order.
I want next year's coach, hopefully Buzz, to believe Marquette is second to none. Bottom line.
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I think this a lot of "he said she said." I think Buzz is a stand up guy. I don't think anyone knows the true level of interest in the job from his side except him and maybe his wife. He doesn't have an agent. I think he would not tell anyone his level of interest before this season is over as it would be extremely counterproductive. It doesn't make sense.
I believe the new terminology is "he say she say." Regardless, I have a source on the inside that says it is overdone.
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I just want this all to stop honestly. It is overshadowing my excitement for the game tomorrow. I find myself looking for info on Buzz rather than looking at people's opinions on the game. Tomorrow I will still be watching with everything I have, but I just wanna see Buzz signing a new contract, and being here for a long time. All this speculation, and fear about him leaving needs to end
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Hope it is wrong. Must admit I am worried.
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None of us know. None of us know what Buzz would do. None of us know if Buzz "is that kind of guy". All speculation on our part, the writers part, everyone. None of us know.
This happens every year with every coaching search at every school. Fans saying "he wouldn't do that'..."he's not that kind of guy"..."he's loyal"...blah blah. No one knows and the fan reactions are the same everywhere.
We'll know when we know but saying what someone would do nor not do is just a guess.
Go Warriors!
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Marquette is bigger than any one coach.
We NEED the MU administration to stay motivated and sharp.
Agreed, but we need our Mark Few, Jay Wright that will stay long term. Constantly having coaches change will eventually get to us.
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None of us know. None of us know what Buzz would do. None of us know if Buzz "is that kind of guy". All speculation on our part, the writers part, everyone. None of us know.
This happens every year with every coaching search at every school. Fans saying "he wouldn't do that'..."he's not that kind of guy"..."he's loyal"...blah blah. No one knows and the fan reactions are the same everywhere.
We'll know when we know but saying what someone would do nor not do is just a guess.
Go Warriors!
HEY... who the heck are you, and what have you done with the real Chicos?
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Chico's----Agreed on GO WARRIORS!!
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People...just go back three months ago. EVERYONE at the four letter network said it was a done deal. That Harbaugh was going to Michigan. (yes, I know he left...just saying that people who "know" don't know until they really know).
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Chicos, of course, are correct. :( This is definitely a known unknown, even though I would like to believe otherwise. (Am I starting to sound like Donald Rumsfeld?)
Now lets kick some UNC butt! GO WARRIORS!!!
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Guys, kick back and enjoy the run.
Based on what I have heard, I am very confident that Buzz will stay.
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God I hope the boys aren't on Scoop out in Newark.
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Niv--You are correct media types make errors quite frequently in cases like this. I just hope we do not have a Harbaugh case that only the location is incorrect.
If Buzz were to leave MU administration has to look into the mirror and ask themselves in spite of outspending everyone why do we lose guys? Trust me it is not the weather or poor recruiting options in Milwaukee area.
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That's something I don't see Buzz doing. Telling other coaches he's interested in a job? Come on.
You don't know. You have no idea what he might be saying to his old boss.
There is a lot of smoke...lots of smoke...if it's gonna happen, it's gonna happen. The good news is that we might see less TC threads.
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Sultan--Wouldn't you miss the TC threads?
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Maybe...then again, the rumors in this article are pretty strong about mutual interest. Either someone is lying or their is truthiness to it.
"Tom Crean has accepted the Illinois job."
- Gery Woefel, circa 2003
Sometimes "strong" rumors are "wrong" rumors.
I have no clue what Buzz is thinking or what he will do after the season ends April 4 ( :)), but what I do know, from experience, is that unnamed sources aren't always right. No matter how strong they are.
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There is a lot of smoke...lots of smoke...if it's gonna happen, it's gonna happen. The good news is that we might see less TC threads.
When it's cold outside, hot air looks like smoke.
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If you take a step back for a minute, what a difference a week or two makes. When we lost those last two reg season games, the ship was sinking and the heat was starting to ratchet up on Buzz a bit. A win over Providence and a good but not great WVU team in the B EASt tourney; we barely get in the tourney and play well in beating Xavier, squeak by Syracuse (a bounce here or there it goes the other way), and all the sudden Buzz is among, if not the, hottest coach on the market. I dare say an early flameout in either tourney would have given rise to completely different comments on this board and little interest from the outside.
The margin between success and failure for these guys is so small in any given game and in a season. No wonder Buzz doesn't get any sleep.
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Pakuni---Of course strong rumors can be wrong rumors and are more often than not. Doesn't it bother you that see ourselves in a similar situation we had TC's last few years? When do we decide to make this a destination job? Strong leadership in the AD department is a perfect starting point.
I believe you put the fire out before other people see the smoke. That job falls flat into Cottingham's lap. I realize Buzz is from that way and the job opportunities make sense. But, if we lose Buzz to OU shame on us. The AD is responsible to pull everything together to make these situations not happen.
I have my fingers crossed that Cottingham has does not his job. But wish I had my fingers crossed a big Warrior win tomorrow would have J.P. Tokoto looking at us again.
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Pieces falling into place for the Sooners to land Marquette coach Buzz Williams
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By Mike Jones / Special contributor
Published 24 March 2011 02:35 PM
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Mike Anderson’s hiring at Arkansas should be good news for Oklahoma fans hoping athletic director Joe Castiglione will hire Marquette coach Buzz Williams.
Sources on both sides have indicated strong mutual interest, though no official contact has been, nor will be, made until after the Golden Eagles are through playing in the NCAA Tournament. Marquette, seeded 11th, faces No.2 seed North Carolina Friday in the round of Sweet 16 at 6 p.m. in Newark, N.J.
Reports of Williams’ buyout at Marquette, placed at more than $3 million, are way over the top according to a source with knowledge of that situation. A standard buyout clause is usually a year’s salary, which in Williams’ case is likely around $1.5 million, give or take.
Arkansas might have also held interest for Williams, a native of Texas who graduated from Oklahoma City University. As the OU job would, coaching at Arkansas would have enabled him to better tap his recruiting ability in Texas. Four Texans are on his roster at Marquette.
The Arkansas job would also have afforded Williams a much-more attractive fan base than that of the blasé core at Oklahoma; though Williams’ enthusiasm and ability to stir up support likely would at least initially provide an immediate attendance boost.
The need for Oklahoma to bring in a coach with strong Texas ties soared when Texas Tech finalized its deal with Billy Gillispie. The price of poker in the Big 12 South has gone up.
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Still Warriors--This is fickle business and you have to be quick on your feet. Buzz went from unemployed to becoming MU coach to hot commodity in quick fashion. AD's cannot be asleep at the switch.
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Yeah that writer even according to the next post on that board is just trying to sell papers...I wasn't a big time follower of Marquette basketball when the Crean stuff hit the fan. Was it the same rumors going around?
It was different with Crean. He definitely got red-hot after the Final Four run, and it seemed every year he was off to Illinois, or Kansas, or whatever job was about to open. And as his name came up, he'd go back to the negotiating table and sign a new and more lucrative contract with Marquette. I think when he left his contract ran through the 2017 season, 10 years beyond the time he departed. But when he did leave, it was news to all of us. It seemed that the "Crean to..." rumors had finally started to die down and that he would stay at Marquette, and suddenly we were all reading on ESPN (including players and Marquette officials) that he was the new head coach at Indiana.
That's why there's still so much vitriol on this site when TC's name comes up. He seemed to constantly parlay open jobs into a bigger contract here, but when the job finally opened that he did want, he didn't even give Marquette a chance to counter the offer. Years later, I think many of us get what he did, that it was more about the legacy of Indiana and the recruiting base that he sought to take advantage of, but it still rubs some the wrong way that he left the way he did.
If this were the days of TC, I'd have no worries about these Oklahoma rumors. When the rumors were loudest, the odds of him leaving were the slimmest.
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If you take a step back for a minute, what a difference a week or two makes. When we lost those last two reg season games, the ship was sinking and the heat was starting to ratchet up on Buzz a bit. A win over Providence and a good but not great WVU team in the B EASt tourney; we barely get in the tourney and play well in beating Xavier, squeak by Syracuse (a bounce here or there it goes the other way), and all the sudden Buzz is among, if not the, hottest coach on the market. I dare say an early flameout in either tourney would have given rise to completely different comments on this board and little interest from the outside.
The margin between success and failure for these guys is so small in any given game and in a season. No wonder Buzz doesn't get any sleep.
Very true. I don't know how these guys deal with it. I guess that's why they get paid the big bucks.
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Redundant.
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Pakuni---Of course strong rumors can be wrong rumors and are more often than not. Doesn't it bother you that see ourselves in a similar situation we had TC's last few years? When do we decide to make this a destination job? Strong leadership in the AD department is a perfect starting point.
I believe you put the fire out before other people see the smoke. That job falls flat into Cottingham's lap. I realize Buzz is from that way and the job opportunities make sense. But, if we lose Buzz to OU shame on us. The AD is responsible to pull everything together to make these situations not happen..
I agree with you to a very small extent ... if Buzz leaves, some of the blame could fall on Cottingham.
That said, I'm curious to know how you propose MU's athletic director prevent some writer in Dallas or Tulsa or Fayetville or anywhere else from saying Buzz Williams is a good candidate for Job X, Y or Z.
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I agree with you to a very small extent ... if Buzz leaves, some of the blame could fall on Cottingham.
That said, I'm curious to know how you propose MU's athletic director prevent some writer in Dallas or Tulsa or Fayetville or anywhere else from saying Buzz Williams is a good candidate for Job X, Y or Z.
Put a horse's head in his bed?
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http://www.muscoop.com/index.php?topic=26347.msg294091;topicseen#new
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you're welcome
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Pakuni--You can avoid that being a position of strength. The last handful of years MU has been at mercy of an employee's decision. I understand that is going to happen but believe the extent it happens here is greater than most, if not all, major programs.
UWM should worry about losing a coach not MU. There has to be something that rubs are guys enough the wrong way to not only listen but leave. I cannot say what it is completely but I stick with my premise from early in the week. We have an identity crisis and afraid to admit it. If OU gets Buzz this is their identity, we saw a guy at major program and went out and got him. In my opinion that attitude fires up alumni and gets their asses in the seats for games.
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Wow, almost every top-line thread at OUHoops.com is about Buzz now, including this asinine one. OU fan asking us to understand when a coach leaves (along with assuming we are all Packer fans)...has OU fan ever even experienced their coach leaving for another job?
http://ouhoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=21121
Also, has any MU coach that left Marquette on their own gone on to increased success ever?
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http://ouhoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=21118 (http://ouhoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=21118)
They are rooting for UNC so Buzz can become available. pretty boys.
edit: i did not type pretty boys. It was auto-corrected for me in place of the hole that is located south of your tail bone.
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I tried to tell you, most OU bball fans are down-right idiots. It's hard for me to even post on OUr own boards. They're like little school girls giggling over Buzz, someone they never heard of a month ago. I don't know if you'll ever find a more uneducated fanbase. I picture most of them having only a couple of teeth.
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I'd believe that Buzz would be open with BCG (Billy Clyde Gillespie) since they are good friends....then again....could all be a case of trying to connect the dots....hope it's the latter.
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ObballU --- Is it true that Sooner games only 2500 people?
http://ouhoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=21119 (http://ouhoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=21119)
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Pakuni--You can avoid that being a position of strength. The last handful of years MU has been at mercy of an employee's decision. I understand that is going to happen but believe the extent it happens here is greater than most, if not all, major programs.
You keep saying this, but do you have anything to support your belief? I "believe" that Marquette's experience in this regard is pretty typical. KO and Crean left for what they thought were greener pastures. That's two coaches in 34 years who left the program. I guess it depends on how you want to define "major programs" but I suspect it's a fairly small number of programs that have had a better record in that regard over the same span.
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What I need explained: If Buzz jumps to OU -- Why have three of the last four coaches bailed on MU as soon as they start to have success? That pattern, to me, speaks of a crappy job. And, it seems that everybody in the sports media knows it too.
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ObballU --- Is it true that Sooner games only 2500 people?
http://ouhoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=21119 (http://ouhoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=21119)
On average, there were about 5000 per home game this season. That's actual people in the seats. Our biggest draw was against Texas (around 9000) and the lowest was Maryland-Eastern Shore (3311). The Kansas game had about 8500, but half were Jayhawk fans.
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I will blame the city of Milwaukee, socialists and the climate. Look forward to that diatribe if Buzz proves to have bamboozled the masses.
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On average, there were about 5000 per home game this season. That's actual people in the seats. Our biggest draw was against Texas (around 9000) and the lowest was Maryland-Eastern Shore (3311). The Kansas game had about 8500, but half were Jayhawk fans.
Thats what you get when you venture into football territory. Thats pretty bad.
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On average, there were about 5000 per home game this season. That's actual people in the seats. Our biggest draw was against Texas (around 9000) and the lowest was Maryland-Eastern Shore (3311). The Kansas game had about 8500, but half were Jayhawk fans.
Cant even sell out for KU? correct me if I am wrong, but wikipedia tells me you arena holds 12,000. From a basketball only school... that shocks me. Is it the fan base or teams performance?
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Our coaches did not entirely for greener pastures. They left partially because they were tired of aspects of the program. Aspects such as higher academic standards than higher rated academic universities. They left partially because factions of alumni either had unrealistic expectations or could not understand why it worked in '77 but '95. They left partially because selling the program became tiring. They left partially because they did not believe MU was a basketball school.
If Buzz goes to OU 2 out 3 coaches made lateral moves at best. Only TC took a better job. It is time to take rose colored glasses off if Buzz leaves and figure out what the hell is going on.
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Why would their 2010-2011 attendance matter? For those that remember we could not give away tickets at the end of Dukiet era. KO was starting with zero and made it happen and he was an assistant that most casual fans did not know. My bet is OU fans know who Buzz is and would welcome him. You spend the money to get a guy to fill the seats. You value a guy so much that you make him your target and you go get him.
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Cant even sell out for KU? correct me if I am wrong, but wikipedia tells me you arena holds 12,000. From a basketball only school... that shocks me. Is it the fan base or teams performance?
12,000 is correct and the answer to the last question is definitely fan base. Don't get me wrong, losing doesn't help either, but our fans didn't consistently sell-out the arena when we had Blake Griffin and the Elite 8 run. Now they think the potential hiring of Buzz will somehow pack the house. Grandiose delusions.
I have no idea and no sources, but I'll be shocked if Buzz leaves MU. Absolutely shocked. I understand he's an Okie/Texan-type guy, but it could be suicidal in terms of his career. To move just because you like an area wouldn't make much sense especially moving from a really good bball program to one in shambles.
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What has Buzz said that insinuates his leaving?
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What I need explained: If Buzz jumps to OU -- Why have three of the last four coaches bailed on MU as soon as they start to have success? That pattern, to me, speaks of a crappy job. And, it seems that everybody in the sports media knows it too.
That pattern speaks to me of a successful program that isn't at the truly "elite" level. Granted, I'd love for Marquette to be at that truly elite level, but I think we're far closer to that than we are to the "crappy job" level.
When coaches leave your program to become an assistant at another program...that suggests a crappy job. When coaches leave your program for mid-major or lower jobs...that suggests a crappy job.
There are a lot of job openings out there. Buzz is being mentioned in connection with the very top jobs available. He seems regarded as one of the (if not "the") hottest coaches around. If he leaves (and I hope he doesn't and don't think he will), it doesn't "speak to me of" a coach trying to escape a "crappy job." It speaks to me of an extremely marketable coach taking the top job available this year (even though we might disagree that it's a step up). Crean clearly left for what is historically considered one of the top five or six jobs in the business. That doesn't speak to me of a coach trying to escape a crappy job.
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Our coaches did not entirely for greener pastures. They left partially because they were tired of aspects of the program. Aspects such as higher academic standards than higher rated academic universities. They left partially because factions of alumni either had unrealistic expectations or could not understand why it worked in '77 but '95. They left partially because selling the program became tiring. They left partially because they did not believe MU was a basketball school.
If Buzz goes to OU 2 out 3 coaches made lateral moves at best. Only TC took a better job. It is time to take rose colored glasses off if Buzz leaves and figure out what the hell is going on.
I'll take your response to mean that you don't have anything to support your belief that this happens more at Marquette than most, if not all, major programs.
I'll also take it to mean that you and I apparently don't see eye-to-eye on what "greener pastures" mean. I was speaking in general terms. In my mind, everything you mentioned would equate to leaving for greener pastures. I was simply referring to what the coach in question perceived as a better opportunity.
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Maybe...then again, the rumors in this article are pretty strong about mutual interest. Either someone is lying or their is truthiness to it.
We Have A Contradiction
Dallas Morning News reporter Mike Jones Today ...
Published 24 March 2011 02:35 PM
[snip]
Sources on both sides have indicated strong mutual interest, though no official contact has been, nor will be, made until after the Golden Eagles are through playing in the NCAA Tournament.
Buzz yesterday ...
"I want the focus to be on our team," Williams said. "What our team has been able to accomplish is great. That's not me dodging the question. ... Marquette gave me a chance when I had no job. The job was open seven days. I owned a house in Louisiana. I owned a house in Mequon. ... there's a lot of gamesmanship that goes into this, none of which I have participated in.
"There are people trying to get to me but I am not going to participate in that. It's not right by our institution, our players or our coaches. I will address it when the season is over."
http://www.onmilwaukee.com/sports/articles/musweet16preview2011.html
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If Buzz sent back channel interest in the OU position and then said this, I would have a problem with it.
I'll take Buzz's word.
If they are both not lying, then someone is misinterpreting another's signals. Either Buzz has mislead us with this comment or OU has a completely wrong read on the situation. Here I how I interpret it (feel free to disagree):
OU attempted to contact Buzz via a back channel (non-official source).
Buzz said what he said above ... I am not going to participate ... I will address it when the season is over. The conversation ended their and nothing more was said.
OU believes that means he is interested because he did not say no.
Buzz has a sleeping problem and is about to take on UNC for the biggest game of his life. If the fire departmental called and said his house was on fire, right now he would say ... I am not going to participate ... I will address it when the season is over.
Doesn't mean Buzz is not interested, just means that OU is taking a bit a leap and hoping they don't fall flat.
Anyone disagree?
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Last thought, the Dallas Morning News also wrote ...
Reports of Williams’ buyout at Marquette, placed at more than $3 million, are way over the top according to a source with knowledge of that situation. A standard buyout clause is usually a year’s salary, which in Williams’ case is likely around $1.5 million, give or take.
What is this "report" that the Dallas Morning News is saying is wrong?
After spending some time on google, their are MU scout and MUscoop posts that Rosiak was on Oklahoma radio three days ago and mentioned that Buzz's buyout was north of $3 million.
http://www.muscoop.com/index.php?topic=26115.msg292948#msg292948
Scout post saying the same thing also quotes IWB (someone who is in a position to know) that the $3 million buyout number is correct.
http://mbd.scout.com/mb.aspx?s=415&f=1316&t=7347701&p=1
Interestingly, Rosiak's own blog on Williams' contract two days ago details his contract but makes no mention of the $3 million buyout.
http://www.jsonline.com/blogs/sports/118052929.html
If Rosiak did not say this three days ago on Oklahoma Radio, and I will email him and ask him, they their is no "report" ... does the sports editor at the Dallas Morning News know he is paying a reporter to shoot down internet message board posts while calling them "reports". Don't reporters lose their jobs over embellishments like this?
If Rosiak said this, and IWB confirmed, unless they back off their statements, I'll believe them over the Dallas Morning News and Buzz does have a $3 million buyout.
If someone has a link to Rosiak's Oklahoma radio interview, or has a real "report" of Buzz's buyout being $3 million, please let me know.
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This is the environment we are living in, taking a coach's word is hard to do-
Only 19 days before Mike Anderson left for Arkansas:
"I plan on being at Missouri for a long time, retire here,"
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StillaWarrior---KO would have gone UW Stout if they paid him MU money. You obviously are lacking knowledge of the situation or flat out brainwashed.
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jaybilas--One third of our paid attendance comes dressed an arena seat. Winning and promoting a program fills the seats.
StillaWarrior--What evidence to you need that it happens more at MU than other major programs? How many Big 10 or BE coaches have left their job voluntarily over the past decade to take another job in "greener pastures"? Half of our problem is that for some reason we think if we wish for something enough it will happen. Other major schools say fxxk the wishing and gets it done.
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If Buzz goes to OU 2 out 3 coaches made lateral moves at best.
Goose first of all he isn't gone yet so can we wait to Panic about where the program is IF he leaves. Second I would argue that when O'Neill left Tennesssee who plays in the SEC WAS a STEP UP from Marquette, a program at that time in a cobbled together C-USA with a Bad practice facility and a downward trend based on NCAA tournement appearences and success. We had two other coachs that were fired. And please lets not go all the way back to Majerus. I don't think Buzz will leave but if he does all it would prove to me is that one guy had a family that was homesick for the South and I think that guy would have made a bad career move but that happens.
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StillaWarrior--What evidence to you need that it happens more at MU than other major programs? How many Big 10 or BE coaches have left their job voluntarily over the past decade to take another job in "greener pastures"? Half of our problem is that for some reason we think if we wish for something enough it will happen. Other major schools say fxxk the wishing and gets it done.
Off the top of my head ...
Big Televen
Bill Self
Lon Kruger (technically 11 years ago, but still ...)
Kevin O'Neill
Big East
Ben Howland
Tom Crean
Tommy Amaker
Matt Doherty
John Beilein
Dave Leitao
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Goose first of all he isn't gone yet so can we wait to Panic about where the program is IF he leaves. Second I would argue that when O'Neill left Tennesssee who plays in the SEC WAS a STEP UP from Marquette, a program at that time in a cobbled together C-USA with a Bad practice facility and a downward trend based on NCAA tournement appearences and success. We had two other coachs that were fired. And please lets not go all the way back to Majerus. I don't think Buzz will leave but if he does all it would prove to me is that one guy had a family that was homesick for the South and I think that guy would have made a bad career move but that happens.
In 1994 their was no CUSA. Weren't we coming off of independent status and in the Great Midwest? And didn't the Great Midwest eventually become the Horizon League?
If I'm correct, in 1994 MU was in a mid-major conference and the SEC was a power conference. In 2011 MU is arguably in the best power conference league, the Big East.
This is a night and day difference that must be considered when talking about a coach that left 17 years ago.
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NotanAlum--You can believe KO left for green pastures. Honestly guys I am making noise because I do NOT want Buzz to leave. Right now everyone is saying he is not leaving, using the same logic I am using in my fear that he is leaving. That logic is a gut feeling and none of us know. But I will bet anything if he leaves every poster comes out of the closet to bitch about it.
I would rather let MU administration know that we as fans actually do care how our money is spent and who the face of the school is on national level. My greatest fear is we are going to be here after we win NCAA and will be throwing out replacement names. I will be throwing out Coack K and Bo Ryan and other will be saying Rob Jeter and Brian Wardle. All of us will be wrong and have different picks. But one thing will be for sure, 2 out 3 on here will be making excuses on why so and so would never come here. Sorry, I believe we can keep Buzz if we want to or get our first choice. The admin knows the same 12,000 will buy season tickets no matter who gets picked.
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How much do you guys think MU will pay per year (to Buzz) if it becomes a bidding war?
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Pakuni--Great I want to be grouped with Northwestern, Seton Hall and DePaul.
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Pakuni--Great I want to be grouped with Northwestern, Seton Hall and DePaul.
Why not say Illinois, Pitt and ND?
Answer: because you have your point of view and when you are proven wrong (yes coaches leave the B10, and more are fired), you elect to twist these facts.
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AnotherMU---When we were in the Great Midwest KO, BC and many fans felt we were in one of the best BASKETBALL conferences in the country. The school felt is was a major ball conference and honestly it was pretty damn good. Basically Great Midwest became C-USA and know not sure what C-USA is anymore. KO fought to get us in that conference.
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I am glad this has digressed into a KO conversation, equally as productive as the Buzz talk.
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Pakuni---I did not want to out your stupid argument. Kruger went to NBA (greener pastures), Howland to UCLA (greener pastures), Self to Kansas and Doherty to UNC (greener pastures). Our guys go to UT and OU. Hardly comparing apples here. If Buzz ends up at Duke I would say we should lose him. He goes to OU SHAME ON US!!
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Oh and can I coin the thread "Buzz Kill" if he does in fact leave?
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Back to the original article, does anyone else see this as moronically contradictory?
"As the OU job would, coaching at Arkansas would have enabled him to better tap his recruiting ability in Texas. Four Texans are on his roster at Marquette."
How stupid are you?
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AnotherMU---When we were in the Great Midwest KO, BC and many fans felt we were in one of the best BASKETBALL conferences in the country. The school felt is was a major ball conference and honestly it was pretty damn good. Basically Great Midwest became C-USA and know not sure what C-USA is anymore. KO fought to get us in that conference.
This is pure fantasy on your part.
No one other than unknowing Bball fans no one in the early 1990s thought the Great Midwest was in the same league as the BE, SEC, B10 etc.
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Back to the original article, does anyone else see this as moronically contradictory?
"Four Texans are on his roster at Marquette."
How stupid are you?
Two Jucos, Jimmy and Joe
A 2-star center in Outle.
A Canadian transplant in Junior.
Are these the four "Texans"?
No Texans in this year's class. No Texans last year's class either.
Are we to believe OU wants him for THIS Texas pipeline?
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Actually AnotherMU it is not pure fantasy. I can tell you the day the conference came together and the excitement level of both KO and BC. I never said it compared to BE but the excitement within The Old Gym was off the charts. So you can debate with me the thoughts/opinions of MU brass on our inclusion into the Great Midwest? If so, I gladly accept the discussion.
The day MU entered that conference was the day MU became relevant again on national scene. Make no mistake about it.
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StillaWarrior---KO would have gone UW Stout if they paid him MU money. You obviously are lacking knowledge of the situation or flat out brainwashed.
We both know that's not true, so it's probably not the best example you could come up with. But your point stands -- KO wanted out. I was at Marquette when KO was there, so I'm not totally ignorant of the situation. If you're willing to discuss this issue honestly (and not just resort to calling me ignorant and/or brainwashed), you would have to agree that when KO left, Marquette was not nearly the program that we have now. We had crappy facilities, were in a crappy conference and Marquette hadn't made the commitment we now see to building a great program. To borrow a phrase from another poster in this thread, it could be argued that it was a "crappy job." Tennessee was a step up at the time. There really wasn't a lot that KO could look to at Marquette to conclude that it was a job worth keeping. In other words, he got out while the getting was good.
Another word about KO: his career since MU has shown that he is not a model of professional stability. Even if MU had been a "major" program when KO was there (and it wasn't by any rational measuring stick), I'm not sure KO leaving would reflect too poorly on MU in hindsight. KO's simply not a stable guy, and I think his many job changes probably say a lot more about him than they say about the employers that he's left behind.
StillaWarrior--What evidence to you need that it happens more at MU than other major programs? How many Big 10 or BE coaches have left their job voluntarily over the past decade to take another job in "greener pastures"? Half of our problem is that for some reason we think if we wish for something enough it will happen. Other major schools say fxxk the wishing and gets it done.
I see that someone else already addressed this off the top of his head. But answer this question: how many coaches have left their job at Marquette over the last decade for a program other than Indiana?
Look, I get it. Like you, I want Marquette to be a truly elite program with all that entails. But to talk about KO and Crean leaving as evidence that there's a problem isn't terribly helpful. As I mentioned above, KO isn't a good comparison for two reasons: he's proven himself a professional nomad, and Marquette wasn't a very good job in the mid-90s. I think Crean isn't the best comparison because...well...it's Indiana. I know people like to make fun of that, but it carries some weight. Notwithstanding their current situation, Indiana has historically been one of the top jobs in college basketball. Do you think less of Kansas since Williams left for UNC?
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StillaWarrior--The main argument I hear for Buzz staying is he is loyal and we gave him a chance. We gave KO a chance, we gave TC a chance...when does it stop. I respect your posts and opinion on KO. The MU job was garbage when KO took it and he made respectable. But, please, please believe me he was gone to any school that would take him. In addition, him being a nomad is accurate but why does that matter? He freely admits leaving MU was his biggest mistake.
Seriously, on the BR and Big 10 coaching changes do you think it is even a close argument? UCLA, NBA, Kansas, UNC and IU? Our guys go backwards and yet we sit back and accept it. I would be happy being a stepping stone location for those schools. But, Tenn or OU?
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Two Jucos, Jimmy and Joe
A 2-star center in Outle.
A Canadian transplant in Junior.
Are these the four "Texans"?
No Texans in this year's class. No Texans last year's class either.
Are we to believe OU wants him for THIS Texas pipeline?
Erik Williams is the other Texan. He is from Houston.
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Pakuni---I did not want to out your stupid argument. Kruger went to NBA (greener pastures), Howland to UCLA (greener pastures), Self to Kansas and Doherty to UNC (greener pastures). Our guys go to UT and OU. Hardly comparing apples here. If Buzz ends up at Duke I would say we should lose him. He goes to OU SHAME ON US!!
You asked about the last 10 years, right? Our guy went to Indiana.
That guy who went to UT? That was a lifetime ago and he left a program that is so different from where we are today that many seem to have forgotten how bad things were. Clearly greener pastures at the time.
Ad that guy who went to OU (you used the past tense, so I figured I could), he's coaching OUR team tomorrow night against North Carolina in the Sweet 16!
The sad thing is that, in general, I agree with you. But you honestly have no support for your "belief" (your word, not mine) that this happens more at Marquette than at most, if not all, other major programs. When I asked for support, you put the question back to me. When someone answered that question by offering nine examples off the top of his head, you focused on only some of the schools and ignored the others. When he asked why you were selective, you offered the post I've quoted above.
You want apples to apples?
Crean (Marquette to Indiana) is apples to apples with Howland, Self and Doherty.
KO (Marquette circa 1994 to UT) is apples to apples with Kruger, Amaker, etc.
Perhaps you should just wait until we find out if Buzz is leaving before you make any more posts on the topic.
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How much do you guys think MU will pay per year (to Buzz) if it becomes a bidding war?
I bet a lot. We're on the cusp, I think, of becoming a well-recognized program again. Even if three years isn't enough time to gauge how successful he'll be long term, stability is key to our program right now. I don't have any idea what a "respectable" raise might be (if *I* were in demand, I'd probably get 25% in my career track. Luckily for my employer, I'm not very good), but 25-30% would be $2M a year, right? That seems like a lot...
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StillaWarrior--The main argument I hear for Buzz staying is he is loyal and we gave him a chance. We gave KO a chance, we gave TC a chance...when does it stop. I respect your posts and opinion on KO. The MU job was garbage when KO took it and he made respectable. But, please, please believe me he was gone to any school that would take him.
Seriously, on the BR and Big 10 coaching changes do you think it is even a close argument? UCLA, NBA, Kansas, UNC and IU? Our guys go backwards and yet we sit back and accept it. I would be happy being a stepping stone location for those schools. But, Tenn or OU?
I don't dispute that KO was gone "to any school that would take him." But you and I both know that he had done a nice enough job at MU that your reference to UW-Stout was silly. KO did well enough that he was going to parlay it into a nice job...and he did. UT was a clear step up.
In addition, him being a nomad is accurate but why does that matter? He freely admits leaving MU was his biggest mistake.
It matters because I'm not entirely convinced that whether a coach stays or leaves depends entirely on the school. Sometimes I think it might just be the coach. KO is a nomad. Did Self stay at Gonzaga because of something they did, or is it just who self is? How about Boeheim? K? Izzo? I really don't know.
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For the record, Rosiak tweeted that Buzz's buyout is in fact very large saying it was more than twice his salary.
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For the record, Rosiak tweeted that Buzz's buyout is in fact very large saying it was more than twice his salary.
Do you have a link?
I emailed Rosiak, waiting for a response.
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Do you have a link?
I emailed Rosiak, waiting for a response.
http://twitter.com/Todd_Rosiak#
Here's what I found
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Pakuni---I did not want to out your stupid argument. Kruger went to NBA (greener pastures), Howland to UCLA (greener pastures), Self to Kansas and Doherty to UNC (greener pastures). Our guys go to UT and OU. Hardly comparing apples here. If Buzz ends up at Duke I would say we should lose him. He goes to OU SHAME ON US!!
Are you for real? The more you post, the more I doubt it.
You specifically asked (and I quote): "How many Big 10 or BE coaches have left their job voluntarily over the past decade to take another job in "greener pastures"?
Then you call my response "stupid" because the coaches I named left for "greener pastures."
Huh? Isn't that exactly what you asked for?
And speaking of stupid, it would be stupid for anyone to stupidly suggest that Tennessee, circa 1994, wasn't greener pastures compared to Marquette, circa 1994.
Better conference? Check.
Better facilities? Check.
More money? Check.
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I'll say it again, we got nothing to worry about with Buzz.
And I'm usually a worrier. That's why my friends call me Whiskers.
(http://farm1.static.flickr.com/31/51999805_b811fe653d.jpg)
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I have a bad feeling about this one and I hate that. However, my wife is an LSU grad so I follow them for football. A few years ago it was a "done deal" that Les Miles was going to Michigan - reported on ESPN and everywhere else. He's still at LSU. Therefore Buzz will be staying put.
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Niv--You are correct media types make errors quite frequently in cases like this. I just hope we do not have a Harbaugh case that only the location is incorrect.
If Buzz were to leave MU administration has to look into the mirror and ask themselves in spite of outspending everyone why do we lose guys? Trust me it is not the weather or poor recruiting options in Milwaukee area.
CoachTomCrean was the first to report the true Harbaugh story. 8-)
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On average, there were about 5000 per home game this season. That's actual people in the seats. Our biggest draw was against Texas (around 9000) and the lowest was Maryland-Eastern Shore (3311). The Kansas game had about 8500, but half were Jayhawk fans.
I keep reading about how great a program OU is, how it is a definite step up from Marquette, how it has such great facilities, etc. Compared to Marquette, those numbers are pretty sad. Marquette is always among the leading draws in the country, averaging somewhere between 15.000-16.000 a game. Those are ticket sold, not bodies in the seats, but it is unlikely that Marquette has drawn as 8000 few actual people in the past decade. I think we drew that many the last time we hosted an NIT game and had two days to sell tickets. The biggest draws are against the big name conference opponents, when we typically draw twice that number. Even against the likes of Maryland-Eastern Shore, Marquette draws more than the largest crowd OU had this season.
Marquette cannot beat OU for location. Other than that, OU looks like a definite step down from Marquette.
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Pakuni---If Buzz leaves you will be the first guy on here either saying how great it is for the news because Buzz was fill in the blank. That post will be followed on a list of loser suggestions, to be followed up on the city of Milwaukee and the weather scared your second tier guys away.
I wish I lived on fantasy island.
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Pakuni---If Buzz leaves you will be the first guy on here either saying how great it is for the news because Buzz was fill in the blank. That post will be followed on a list of loser suggestions, to be followed up on the city of Milwaukee and the weather scared your second tier guys away.
I wish I lived on fantasy island.
In English please.
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jack the price to 10 million and coach k ;D
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I'll say it again, we got nothing to worry about with Buzz.
And I'm usually a worrier. That's why my friends call me Whiskers.
(http://farm1.static.flickr.com/31/51999805_b811fe653d.jpg)
MUfan12, I thought your friends called you Whiskers because you were as curious as a cat...
Put all of the speculation and $$$ aside. If Buzz does leave MU after only 3 years, then I don't want him. Having seen him on tv and having personally met him, I think he's a genuine guy and will stay true to MU and won't leave after this season. That being said, if he does leave then he's not the guy I thought he was, and good riddance. Until then, I'm just going to worry about taking on UNC tonight.