MUScoop
MUScoop => Hangin' at the Al => Topic started by: Tulsa Warrior on March 21, 2011, 05:31:50 AM
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http://www.tulsaworld.com/sportsextra/blogs/blog.aspx?blogid=12
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I tend to agree with this. The deeper we go, the less likely Buzz is going anywhere for a long, long time (i.e. the higher his price goes and the more likely his contract is extended to make him one of the highest paid coaches.)
7 figure buyout?!? I wouldn't be surprised at all.
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IWB reports on the scout board that he has had multiple sources tell him Buzz is staying. FWIW
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MU speculation on Buzz is rising. Lets keep this guy for a long time. Go get 'em Buzz!
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IWB reports on the scout board that he has had multiple sources tell him Buzz is staying. FWIW
That's worth almost as much as Chicos' sources at IU, PU & the NCAA.
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7 figure buyout?!? I wouldn't be surprised at all.
Honestly, I don't know why it wouldn't be an 8 figure buyout. In 2008, Buzz didn't have an agent, and didn't have any other job offers, and he was going to be paid crazy money by a Big East team to be their head coach, 365 days after, as he's said, he was reported to have committed career suicide.
They could have had a clause that he had to hand-wash Cottingham's car every Saturday.
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After reading that blog, it seems pretty clear that guy has no real information whatsoever and is just speculating like everyone on here. It also sounds like a lot of back-peddling to help OU save face.
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Honestly, I don't know why it wouldn't be an 8 figure buyout. In 2008, Buzz didn't have an agent, and didn't have any other job offers, and he was going to be paid crazy money by a Big East team to be their head coach, 365 days after, as he's said, he was reported to have committed career suicide.
They could have had a clause that he had to hand-wash Cottingham's car every Saturday.
Buzz paid many dues, but never really had to coach at a mid-major. He inherited a team with at least three NBA players (counted McNeal) and maybe two more if DJ and Butler ever get a 10 day. That is well worth any buy-out clause. He does not have to keep it in there for his extension whenever it comes.
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Buzz paid many dues, but never really had to coach at a mid-major. He inherited a team with at least three NBA players (counted McNeal) and maybe two more if DJ and Butler ever get a 10 day. That is well worth any buy-out clause. He does not have to keep it in there for his extension whenever it comes.
Did he sign DJO and Butler, not inherit them?
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From Troy Nunes Syracuse basketball blog:
"If there's some good to come out of this game, it's that Buzz Williams will almost certainly be coaching somewhere else next year. Probably Oklahoma. So whatever hold he has over Syracuse at the moment, he'll be gone and things can go back to normal. So in a way, we really screwed over Marquette by losing twice to them. Sorry bout that, Goldies."
No one wants to face Buzz...
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From Troy Nunes Syracuse basketball blog:
"If there's some good to come out of this game, it's that Buzz Williams will almost certainly be coaching somewhere else next year. Probably Oklahoma. So whatever hold he has over Syracuse at the moment, he'll be gone and things can go back to normal. So in a way, we really screwed over Marquette by losing twice to them. Sorry bout that, Goldies."
No one wants to face Buzz...
'Cuse fans are just bitter...because we took it to them twice this year after going 0-5...and that UCONN is still in the tourney.
They can pound sand. I've never met a 'Cuse fan I've liked...I'm sure there are some out there though.
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Buzz paid many dues, but never really had to coach at a mid-major. He inherited a team with at least three NBA players (counted McNeal) and maybe two more if DJ and Butler ever get a 10 day. That is well worth any buy-out clause. He does not have to keep it in there for his extension whenever it comes.
And that's fine and dandy .. the point is, he was in no position to reject a huge BE head coach contract. And it'd be nice if we had that huge buyout now, meaning MU wouldn't be forced into a new contract every time their coach wins a couple games in March.
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That blog is incredible bipolar...
19th -- tough for buzz to leave because team is close
20th -- we have reports hearing buzz is top of the list and he wants out
21st -- Money is a buzz kill along with winning
It seems odd how this guy is on both ends of the spectrum form day to day blogs...
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Did he sign DJO and Butler, not inherit them?
He signed DJO and was the lead recruiter on Butler. (And O'tule)
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Did he sign DJO and Butler, not inherit them?
Signed them, but that has zero bearing on his contract negotiations in 2008.
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He signed DJO and was the lead recruiter on Butler. (And O'tule)
Tought Jimmy signed with MU after Buzz got hired as Head Coach. I also remember Buzz saying something to the effect that they had never even met - so not much of a recruitment.
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And that's fine and dandy .. the point is, he was in no position to reject a huge BE head coach contract. And it'd be nice if we had that huge buyout now, meaning MU wouldn't be forced into a new contract every time their coach wins a couple games in March.
Exactly. Buzz was probably underqualified at the time. MU was in position to dictate the terms and I am happy that we did.
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Tought Jimmy signed with MU after Buzz got hired as Head Coach. I also remember Buzz saying something to the effect that they had never even met - so not much of a recruitment.
They had meet has Buzz had seen Fulce play many times.
It was actually that Jimmy had never seen the campus before he signed.
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I tend to agree with this. The deeper we go, the less likely Buzz is going anywhere for a long, long time (i.e. the higher his price goes and the more likely his contract is extended to make him one of the highest paid coaches.)
7 figure buyout?!? I wouldn't be surprised at all.
Actually it is, and a pretty hefty one at that.
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They had meet has Buzz had seen Fulce play many times.
It was actually that Jimmy had never seen the campus before he signed.
Fulce signed with Buzz to play at UNO, when Buzz resigned there, Fulce went JUCO. When Buzz ended up at Marquette, Fulce signed with Marquette - that's why Buzz and Joe's connection is so strong, they've known each other so long.
Think buzz also started recruiting CO when he was at UNO. Crean needed a big man, but Buzz wasn't sure CO was Big East material. Crean signed CO anyway because you can't teach height.
Edit: Or maybe it was that Bulter had never seen/visited the Maruqette campus. I can't remember exactly now....
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Exactly. Buzz was probably underqualified at the time. MU was in position to dictate the terms and I am happy that we did.
Its important to note though, that in the relationships between Buzz and MU, this affects the whole "Buzz appreciates what MU did for him, etc etc" arguments we saw in why he would stay. If MU did dictate the terms advantageously based on the lack of bargaining strength at the time, I think it serves to undermine that Buzz would feel he owes anything, makes the contract seem much more arms length, and would mean we have often been overemphasizing the moral reciprocation between Buzz and those cutting the checks.
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Fulce signed with Buzz to play at UNO, when Buzz resigned there, Fulce went JUCO. When Buzz ended up at Marquette, Fulce signed with Marquette - that's why Buzz and Joe's connection is so strong, they've known each other so long.
Actually Fulce first signed with assistant HC Buzz at Texas A&M. When Buzz became HC at UNO, Fulce moved with him. Then Fulce moved to MU when Buzz was hired as an assistant (and recommended his Juco buddy Jimmy Butler). When Fulce starting playing for MU, Buzz was HC.
These two have a history rarely seen in this sport. How many college players follow a coach through three different schools and four jobs (including assistant and HC at MU)? Also remember when Joe hurt his leg against TAMCC and we thought he was done for the year, Buzz got misty eyed and told Homer, "I love that guy."
That's why I asked several weeks ago if Fulce would remain, or comeback as a assistant under Buzz. Sounds like Buzz would jump on a grenade for Fulce.
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according to this Arkansas sports writer, from oklah. sources, it is $3.8 mil.
http://twitter.com/WallyLikeItIs (http://twitter.com/WallyLikeItIs)
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That's a pretty big buyout. For OU, put that on top of Caple's salary still owed, and then Buzz' new salary and you are at around $8M there. For Arkansas, you're at probably $5-6M.
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That's a pretty big buyout. For OU, put that on top of Caple's salary still owed, and then Buzz' new salary and you are at around $8M there. For Arkansas, you're at probably $5-6M.
Agree
That's a large buyout by today's standards, but reflective of Buzz's short tenure. Usually, the longer tenured coaches have a smaller buyout which they negotiate themselves to give them more flexibility. If it's truly that high, this is a help for MU as a result of relatively short head coaching experience that allows for that protection for the university.
More than likely, Buzz's next contract will have a smaller buyout.
As an example, the Crean buyout was about $650,000 at MU. At IU, his buyout goes down after certain tenure targets are hit. Years 1-3 it's a $3M buyout, years 4-5 it's $2M, years 6 through 10 it's a $1M. Pretty standard stuff.
Caple's buyout is reported to be north of $2M.
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I sure hope this is true.
Nearly four million dollars is a big chunk of change for a buyout, on top of the salary a team would likely have to offer to even bother trying to lure away Buzz from Marquette.
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If the buyout number is true, then I have to say kudos to Cottingham. Even if it's standard stuff, he did it right to protect MU.
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Ummm, thats quite a lot. Hard to really believe that, but still.
http://twitter.com/WallyLikeItIs
Its already been picked up by Arkansas and Mizzou boards by the way.
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Honestly the buyout number is irrelevant to me. If you think the guy is worthy of a big buyout number you fight to keep him. If Buzz leaves after this year we did not fight to keep him.
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That is ridiculous, I don't believe it. One sweet 16 doesn't make you John Wooden. OK must be desperate.
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Lighthouse---Why would you have such high buyout price if you did not have high level of confidence in guy. That price tag scares away some schools and if the guy is not worth fighting for why would you want to scare away bidders?
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well you assume cottingham did it to protect Marquette. It makes sense from the school stand point.
I assume Oklahoma is talking with cottingham at this point to get this information.
Does this means buzz is interested if Oklahoma has progressed to the point of contacting Marquette for this information?
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I think it shows OU is interested in Buzz, but doesn't necessarily say anything about Buzz's interest in OU. I also think it continues to show OU is backpeddling and trying to save face after realizing it won't be so easy to get any coach they want.
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well you assume cottingham did it to protect Marquette. It makes sense from the school stand point.
I assume Oklahoma is talking with cottingham at this point to get this information.
Does this means buzz is interested if Oklahoma has progressed to the point of contacting Marquette for this information?
This is how I understand the conversation went down - or maybe it was a dream. In any event, I'm paraphrasing and embellishing for the sake of humor.
OK/AR: Hello, Mr. Cottingham? We'd be fixin' to talk with Buzz Williams about him coaching here at Oklahoma/Arkansas. Would that be ok with you?
Cotts: Sure, but - let me put this in language you can understand - ain't gonna do you no good no how.
OK/AR: Why is that?
Cotts: Because we've already signed Buzz to an extension.
OK/AR: Tarnation -- I knew we waited too long. Our boosters are gonna have our nuts in a San Antonio Guillotine.
Cotts: If it's any consolation, you can tell them the buyout was $3.8M.
OK/AR: Well I'll be hornswaggled... you're all right, Yankee. You may have just saved our bacon. How about a home-and-home some time to help your non-con SOS?
Cotts: That'd be terrific. We'll give you a call after the season.
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there maybe something to it that leaking Buzz's high buyout number is an attempt to save face for OK...
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I don't think universities go through AD's anymore when seeking out their coach....we sure know Indiana didn't.
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Buzz has said that he doesn't have an agent and all inquiries have to come through Cottingham.
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call me a pessimist but I doubt OU called up Cottingham.
Doesn't seem like it would be too hard for Buzz to relay info without a formal agent.
That would be nice for us though if all schools really are going through our AD.
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call me a pessimist but I doubt OU called up Cottingham.
Doesn't seem like it would be too hard for Buzz to relay info without a formal agent.
That would be nice for us though if all schools really are going through our AD.
I would suspect any inquiry would go through Lewis Orr, unless he was being paid by MU. I don't believe he was and he is Buzz' mentor. There are other channels that they can go through as well.
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I would suspect any inquiry would go through Lewis Orr, unless he was being paid by MU. I don't believe he was and he is Buzz' mentor. There are other channels that they can go through as well.
Orr is being paid by MU as a consultant.
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Orr is being paid by MU as a consultant.
Thanks. Then he better not be a conduit ...
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From Pat Forde's chat today http://espn.go.com/sportsnation/chat/_/id/37590:
Scott (Dallas)
Speaking of Mike Anderson, do you think Buzz Williams will go to Arkansas now?
Pat Forde (2:35 PM)
Scott: Kinda think Oklahoma might be the more likely destination for Buzz. If he leaves Marquette.
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I've noticed a lot of the recent speculation about Buzz has included more "ifs". Like "if he leaves Marquette", or "if he's really an option for OU". I take this as a good sign and it shows again that these guys have no real information.
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From Pat Forde's chat today http://espn.go.com/sportsnation/chat/_/id/37590:
Scott (Dallas)
Speaking of Mike Anderson, do you think Buzz Williams will go to Arkansas now?
Pat Forde (2:35 PM)
Scott: Kinda think Oklahoma might be the more likely destination for Buzz. If he leaves Marquette.
Dream ON, Scott from Dallas.
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Thanks. Then he better not be a conduit ...
Unless, of course, he's keeping Cottingham up to date on all the traffic. It's better to know than not to know... Not likely, since this would put him in a compromised position with Buzz.
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If my memory serves correctly TC was given a long term contract, only to bolt, which was made too easy by MU, as TC had a relatively small buyout amount.
It seems likely MU was aware of the "burn me once" (laughing as I write, as I'm recalling George W Bush's stumble over this saying-lol) need to shore up this exposure, and would likely have increased the $ amount in the Buzz buyout clause, yes?
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If my memory serves correctly TC was given a long term contract, only to bolt, which was made too easy by MU, as TC had a relatively small buyout amount.
It seems likely MU was aware of the "burn me once" (laughing as I write, as I'm recalling George W Bush's stumble over this saying-lol) need to shore up this exposure, and would likely have increased the $ amount in the Buzz buyout clause, yes?
Typically the more leverage the coach has, the lesser the buyout they want...gives them freedom to move. Any good agent, which I realize Buzz doesn't have one, will want to make the buyout small. This is because it makes him more marketable to other programs. If you have a really high buyout, fewer programs will want you or drive up your price \ raise. That's why agents and coaches want a lower buyout and that is typically "earned" by a successful coach as they earn their stripes.
Let's not forget that buyouts can work against the university as well. If you have too high a buyout and your coach busts and you're paying him a ton of money, no one wants to take him off your hands. Cottingham is a good attorney, I suspect he will have this part handled well to a proper balancing of the school's interests and the coach.
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If my memory serves correctly TC was given a long term contract, only to bolt, which was made too easy by MU, as TC had a relatively small buyout amount.
It seems likely MU was aware of the "burn me once" (laughing as I write, as I'm recalling George W Bush's stumble over this saying-lol) need to shore up this exposure, and would likely have increased the $ amount in the Buzz buyout clause, yes?
According to Rosiak who was on OK radio today.....The buyout for Buzz is large and was put in place because....in Crean's second contract.....he negotiated a small buyout which was much lower than his original.....Which burned MU.....
So you can thank Tan Tommy for something......
They are going to have to pay thru the nose.....If indeed Buzz wants to go... (which I doubt)
Katz said today.....Why would Buzz leave.....He has established a "national" brand for "hard work" .....has a good recruiting class.....and has everything a coach would want in Milwaukee.....
The tide has turned towards MU in my opinion....People are realizing Buzz isn't going anywhere.....