Butler doing it again this year. Pitt goes down in a stunner.
unbelievable
Stunner is right. Busted my sheet. Sheeet.
2 stupid fouls.
Quote from: MU B2002 on March 19, 2011, 08:25:00 PM
2 stupid fouls.
First one was stupid. Second one was incomprehensible. Just bizarre how this one ended.
Never seen anything like that. Pitt's last possession and they run clock down, no shot and have a shot clock violation.
Then the stupid Butler foul by Mack.
Then the missed free throw by Pitt's Gilbert Brown.
Then the most stupid, stupid foul by Nasir Robinson. WTF?????
Can't imagine what the Pitt fans are going through now. Good grief.
Their board is in utter meltdown right now.
Big east comes up big again
How did we ever lose 9 Big East games?
Watching this tournament, you would be convinced that the Big East has the dumbest coached teams on Earth. What is up with Pitt waiting until there are 6 seconds left on the shot clock to initiate offense in a game when you're only up one when your opponent will have plenty of time to score if you miss? Despite how dumb that was, they had the even more idiotic foul at the end. Why did Nova refuse to play offense down the stretch? Why did Louisville put on the brakes when they got the lead?
I'm sorry, but Butler is not some special tough 8 seed. They are not that good. Pitt gagged it, as did Louisville, as did Villanova. WVU got beat by a better team, but they imploded down the stretch, too. I don't care what the computers say, the Big 10 teams don't choke like this. You think Ohio State would be in a nail biter with Butler? You think Wisconsin wouldn't have handled Morehead State? You think MIchigan would have lost to George Mason? I don't.
Refs are morons. Swallow your whistle and let the players decide the game in OT.
The call against Mack was blatant and directly affected Brown's ability to get a shot off, but the foul after the missed FT???? Give me a f*ckin break ref!
he hacked him. isn't that a foul?
Quote from: groove on March 19, 2011, 08:37:20 PM
Big east comes up big again
interesting Sir Charles, blowhard that he may be, has been saying all along BE is way overated. This tourney may make his argument.
Quote from: NickelDimer on March 19, 2011, 08:42:49 PM
Refs are morons. Swallow your whistle and let the players decide the game in OT.
The call against Mack was blatant and directly affected Brown's ability to get a shot off, but the foul after the missed FT???? Give me a f*ckin break ref!
That was as clear of a foul as you get. Not only did he shove the guy, but he also slapped him straight across the arm. Dumbest foul I've ever, EVER seen in my life. After what Mack just did, isn't the ONLY thing on your mind DO NOT FOUL!?
Quote from: NickelDimer on March 19, 2011, 08:42:49 PM
Refs are morons. Swallow your whistle and let the players decide the game in OT.
The call against Mack was blatant and directly affected Brown's ability to get a shot off, but the foul after the missed FT???? Give me a f*ckin break ref!
While I could understand swallowing your foul, he committed a foul. No reason to even be that close. Never, ever give the official a reason to blow the whistle. Howard was just throwing the ball away to go to OT. Robinson had no business grabbing his arm. Beyond stupid.
Quote from: MUMac on March 19, 2011, 08:47:21 PM
While I could understand swallowing your foul, he committed a foul. No reason to even be that close. Never, ever give the official a reason to blow the whistle. Howard was just throwing the ball away to go to OT. Robinson had no business grabbing his arm. Beyond stupid.
Yeah, I'm not going to argue it wasn't a foul, but the ref has to understand context in my opinion and that foul had no bearing on the end result. The ref should use discretion and understand the game was set to be decided by the plyers in OT.
Quote from: NickelDimer on March 19, 2011, 08:42:49 PM
Refs are morons. Swallow your whistle and let the players decide the game in OT.
The call against Mack was blatant and directly affected Brown's ability to get a shot off, but the foul after the missed FT???? Give me a f*ckin break ref!
How could he not call that foul after the one before it? That was such a blatant, obvious foul he had to call it. I was rooting for Pitt but I didn't have a problem with that call.
Was hoping Pitt would win because they are athletic enough to cause problems for dook.....hate to see the way this is unfolding for k and dook once again.....
A big east team has not won the NCAA title since 2003, which was also the last time they had anyone in the championship game. Maybe beating up on each other in the regular season is taking it's toll by the post season.
Take it to ot. That last foul on Howard was awful. Wouldn't have gotten any shot off. Ref needs to be fired. Awful.
Regarding coaching...dioxin blew it.
Big east ball is different bc it is so physical-which I like. You get the wrong officials, though...and they can beat...as we've seen.
Honestly, there is no reason for Pitt's players to even be on the line. Stupid play by Robinson, but Dixon should have had them at halfcourt.
They should have let them play another session. That's no way to end a game in the tourny
Quote from: Hards_Alumni on March 19, 2011, 09:01:05 PM
Honestly, there is no reason for Pitt's players to even be on the line. Stupid play by Robinson, but Dixon should have had them at halfcourt.
Before the foul shots, I wondered what Dixon would do. If he made the first, play it safe as you said or keep them on the line for a tip in of a missed FT at the buzzer. If he missed the first, I would have expected the guys on the line, as OT is not a given.
Those officials were calling it much tighter than they do in the BE. That would be an argument to move them off the line, as you stated. I suspect Dixon will be grilled for that decision.
A lot of goats to go around in that one.
Quote from: Hards_Alumni on March 19, 2011, 09:01:05 PM
Honestly, there is no reason for Pitt's players to even be on the line. Stupid play by Robinson, but Dixon should have had them at halfcourt.
Okay.....But if Brown misses the second and Pitt wins on a tip in is Dixon a genius for not having his players back on defense?
It wasn't a mistake by Dixon, it was just an idiotic play by Robinson.
Quote from: mugoose on March 19, 2011, 08:59:35 PM
Take it to ot. That last foul on Howard was awful. Wouldn't have gotten any shot off. Ref needs to be fired. Awful.
Regarding coaching...dioxin blew it.
Big east ball is different bc it is so physical-which I like. You get the wrong officials, though...and they can beat...as we've seen.
If it's a foul with 10 minutes left in the first half, it's a foul with 1.2 seconds left in the game. Don't call the game based on the time on the clock. Stupid play by Pitt to put the ref in that position.
What will get lost in all of this is the outstanding last play drawn up by Brad Stephens. I thought that was a great drawn up play, they were going to drive and go inside no matter what, great great call.
Quote from: MUDish on March 19, 2011, 09:10:05 PM
What will get lost in all of this is the outstanding last play drawn up by Brad Stephens. I thought that was a great drawn up play, they were going to drive and go inside no matter what, great great call.
Excellent point and you are correct, it will get lost in all of this. that was a fantastic play and they got a layup out of it.
Quote from: NickelDimer on March 19, 2011, 08:50:52 PM
Yeah, I'm not going to argue it wasn't a foul, but the ref has to understand context in my opinion and that foul had no bearing on the end result. The ref should use discretion and understand the game was set to be decided by the plyers in OT.
That's a tough call in my opinion. I usually like to see them let guys play to determine the winner as well, but it was a blatant foul.
I think borderline ones you let go in that situation but this one was so obvious the ref probably just instinctively blew his whistle without thinking about the context...it was that obvious
Lost in all the commotion is that once again Pitt crashes in the tourney. I mean Butler? Didn't they get beat twice by UWM?
We all know Pitt has great talent. Obviously Dixon is doing something very wrong and needs to re evalute his entire coaching method.
Quote from: Mutaman on March 19, 2011, 09:41:31 PM
Lost in all the commotion is that once again Pitt crashes in the tourney. I mean Butler? Didn't they get beat twice by UWM?
Exactly. They were lucky to beat ODU. That was a terrible loss.
Pitt might be one of the worst tourney teams
Quote from: Victor McCormick on March 19, 2011, 09:14:26 PM
That's a tough call in my opinion. I usually like to see them let guys play to determine the winner as well, but it was a blatant foul.
I think borderline ones you let go in that situation but this one was so obvious the ref probably just instinctively blew his whistle without thinking about the context...it was that obvious
Awful call to end a game (and I was rooting for Butler). No way should a game be decided by a reach-in foul 90 feet from the basket with 1 second left. Yes, it was stupid to reach in, but that reach should not have had any effect on the game's outcome. Unfortunate ending.
Quote from: MerrittsMustache on March 19, 2011, 10:43:56 PM
Awful call to end a game (and I was rooting for Butler). No way should a game be decided by a reach-in foul 90 feet from the basket with 1 second left. Yes, it was stupid to reach in, but that reach should not have had any effect on the game's outcome. Unfortunate ending.
If the refs were going to call a bump 50 feet from the basket with 1.4 seconds left, why wouldn't they call the same kind of foul 90 feet from the basket with .9 seconds left? This one's on Jamie Dixon big time. As Hards pointed out, once Brown made the first foul shot Dixon HAS to get his guys off the line. If he makes it you win, and the worst you can do is overtime. Dumb foul? Yes. But it never would have happened if Dixon didn't go absolutely brain dead.
Should Pitt fire Jamie Dixon
Quote from: CTWarrior on March 19, 2011, 08:38:07 PM
How did we ever lose 9 Big East games?
Watching this tournament, you would be convinced that the Big East has the dumbest coached teams on Earth. What is up with Pitt waiting until there are 6 seconds left on the shot clock to initiate offense in a game when you're only up one when your opponent will have plenty of time to score if you miss? Despite how dumb that was, they had the even more idiotic foul at the end. Why did Nova refuse to play offense down the stretch? Why did Louisville put on the brakes when they got the lead?
I'm sorry, but Butler is not some special tough 8 seed. They are not that good. Pitt gagged it, as did Louisville, as did Villanova. WVU got beat by a better team, but they imploded down the stretch, too. I don't care what the computers say, the Big 10 teams don't choke like this. You think Ohio State would be in a nail biter with Butler? You think Wisconsin wouldn't have handled Morehead State? You think MIchigan would have lost to George Mason? I don't.
Yes, I think, Ohio State would have had a tough game with Butler, as I think they will struggle with George Mason tomorrow. Wisconsin would have lost to Morehead State on Thursday and yes, Michigann would have lost to George Mason on Friday. The Big ten lucked out by getting UNLV and Tennessee as first round opponents.
Quote from: Hards_Alumni on March 19, 2011, 09:01:05 PM
Honestly, there is no reason for Pitt's players to even be on the line. Stupid play by Robinson, but Dixon should have had them at halfcourt.
Yep
Robinson was a complete and utter moron to hack Howard in that situation given Howard had no chance to rebound the ball and then get off a decent shot of any kind.
That said, Dixon really brainfarted by not pulling his players off the line to where no chance of a foul could happen like an over the back or what ended up happen. One of the jobs of a head coach is to put his kids in a position where they can't even do something as stupid as Robinson did there.
With all the pressure involved with a close NCAA Tournament game, 18-21 year old kids/young men will just sometimes makes very dumb decisions, but a head coach can't get caught up in the moment like Dixon did there.
Quote from: Norm on March 20, 2011, 02:23:14 AM
Yes, I think, Ohio State would have had a tough game with Butler, as I think they will struggle with George Mason tomorrow. Wisconsin would have lost to Morehead State on Thursday and yes, Michigann would have lost to George Mason on Friday. The Big ten lucked out by getting UNLV and Tennessee as first round opponents.
Seriously?
Quote from: El Duderino on March 20, 2011, 02:40:51 AM
That said, Dixon really brainfarted by not pulling his players off the line to where no chance of a foul could happen like an over the back or what ended up happen. One of the jobs of a head coach is to put his kids in a position where they can't even do something as stupid as Robinson did there.
On the other hand, Pitt is one of the best rebounding teams in NCAA, Xavier is average at best. I think Dixon saw a reasonable chance of getting the rebound on a miss.
The way Butler was playing, I'm sure Dixon didn't want to extend the game another five minutes.
God I love Butler. Brad Stevens is an unbelievable coach
Quote from: Marquette84 on March 20, 2011, 12:04:21 PM
On the other hand, Pitt is one of the best rebounding teams in NCAA, Xavier is average at best. I think Dixon saw a reasonable chance of getting the rebound on a miss.
The way Butler was playing, I'm sure Dixon didn't want to extend the game another five minutes.
Total nonsense. Dixon played it the only way he could have lost in regulation. Brain dead.
Quote from: LightBlueJerseys on March 20, 2011, 12:06:38 PM
God I love Butler. Brad Stevens is an unbelievable coach
Careful, you're liable to be called a racist here for enjoying SOUND, fundamental basketball. I'm not even mildly joking either.
Decisions and actions by players dictate whether or not the coach is smart. If the Pitt player doesn't suffer brain lock, Dixon looks better. Rutgers had a complaint because the refs didn't officiate until the final buzzer. The refs officiated until the final buzzer. Both were fouls. Both were unbelievably poor decisions. Regardless of the outcome, the losing coach was going to be criticized for boneheaded plays by their team.
Quote from: LightBlueJerseys on March 20, 2011, 12:06:38 PM
God I love Butler. Brad Stevens is an unbelievable coach
More like Shelvin Mack is an unbelieveable player. Coaches get WAY too much credit or blame at this level of basketball for team performance. Mack goes 7-12 from the 3 and hits some unbelievably tough/degree of difficulty 3's in that statistic..
Was Stevens a great coach when UWM beat them 2 times in the regular season?? Not trying to take everything away from the guy...but think we as fans can sometimes get too carried away with "coaching." Talent wins/accounts for 85-95% of a teams wins - "coaching" the other 5-15%.
Quote from: tower912 on March 20, 2011, 12:36:00 PM
Decisions and actions by players dictate whether or not the coach is smart. If the Pitt player doesn't suffer brain lock, Dixon looks better. Rutgers had a complaint because the refs didn't officiate until the final buzzer. The refs officiated until the final buzzer. Both were fouls. Both were unbelievably poor decisions. Regardless of the outcome, the losing coach was going to be criticized for boneheaded plays by their team.
Absolutely the Pitt player made a poor decision, but he never should have been in the situation where his instinct to compete could cost his team the game. My first thought when Brown was fouled was if he makes the first one, move your players off the line. I can't believe that nobody on the Pitt staff had his head in the game. To me, that's the definition of a choke job.
Disagree. If the missed free throw goes at a different angle and one of the Pitt player left on the line gets the tip, certainly possible considering their size and athleticism, Dixon is a genius. The player messed up.
Had pitt in the final 2... frustrated my bracket is all but done, Happy that I can cheer for underdogs from here on out
Quote from: LightBlueJerseys on March 20, 2011, 12:06:38 PM
God I love Butler. Brad Stevens is an unbelievable coach
Can't make that judgement. He has only been head coach for 4 years.
Quote from: tower912 on March 20, 2011, 01:08:32 PM
Can't make that judgement. He has only been head coach for 4 years.
Careful, you're liable to be called a racist here for enjoying SOUND, fundamental basketball. I'm not even mildly joking either.
UNC player (Henson?) just made an equally stupid play as anything in the Pitt game, but the Heels held on so it doesn't matter.
Shelvyn Mack isn't an unbelievable player......kid is a 33% 3 pt shooter with a 15 ppg average. He had an unbelievable game, the pessimist in me would think he was on a PED, the optimist would say he just had a great game and was SO very on.
I'm probably a bit jaded though by football and baseball. And just for discussion, increased t levels help your focus, aggressiveness,etc so I don't think a b-ball player would take anabolic steroids for physical gain as much as the mental edge it gives you.
Quote from: Stone Cold on March 20, 2011, 01:33:51 PM
Shelvyn Mack isn't an unbelievable player......kid is a 33% 3 pt shooter with a 15 ppg average. He had an unbelievable game, the pessimist in me would think he was on a PED, the optimist would say he just had a great game and was SO very on.
I'm probably a bit jaded though by football and baseball. And just for discussion, increased t levels help your focus, aggressiveness,etc so I don't think a b-ball player would take anabolic steroids for physical gain as much as the mental edge it gives you.
Mack was tremendous last year in their tourney run. This season..when Butler was scuffling along..Mack lost his shooting touch for about 8 games...when Mack shoots well..Butler is VERY difficult to beat. Much the same, just like MU - when DJO is going well...we are very tough to beat. When DJO isn't going so well...well..all of a sudden our coaching sucks..and when he's going well...BUzz is a great coach because we usually win. Just the nature of fans..
Quote from: LightBlueJerseys on March 20, 2011, 12:06:38 PM
God I love Butler. Brad Stevens is an unbelievable coach
I wish I could love Butler, but I found myself rooting against them. They remind me of WI in a lot of ways - they foul so much the refs let a ton of it go. The last three NCAA games they have played in they have gotten the majority of calls, almost Duke like. Just my opinion.
I feel the same way about Butler. Have a negative emotional reaction to them. At least either Wisconsin or Butler will be out after next round. That game has the potential to be one of the ugliest Sweet 16 games of all time. The over-under is at 123. If the teams are not hitting their threes, this could be a 36-33 game.
Regarding the officiating, you know the refs have had a bad tournament when the head of officiating has to be on CBS twice within 24 hours. Especially when he has to explain the end of that UNC game in his second appearance. If the NCAA rule is that a ball is not out-of-bounds when it hits out of bounds, but rather when the ref blows the whistle, then that is possibly the stupidest rule of all time.
My house in Indy where I live is 5 minutes away from Butlers campus -- I grew up loving them, they are my second favorite team.
I know coaching isn't everything, but it is still something. He did lure these probably overlooked players to come to Butler and play together like a well oiled machine.
"Luck is when preparation meets opportunity"
Quote from: Norm on March 20, 2011, 02:23:14 AM
Yes, I think, Ohio State would have had a tough game with Butler, as I think they will struggle with George Mason tomorrow.
OSU is struggling all right. I'm not sure they can hang on to that slim 26 point halftime lead. George Mason is every bit as good as Butler, though they lack NCAA experience.
Quote from: CTWarrior on March 20, 2011, 05:19:38 PM
OSU is struggling all right. I'm not sure they can hang on to that slim 26 point halftime lead. George Mason is every bit as good as Butler, though they lack NCAA experience.
Yep, that looks stupid now, but I said that not knowing that George Mason's best player would be sick and not playing against OSU. It was 20-26 about half way through the first half before OSU pulled away. 9-13 for 3's inthe first half is ridiculous for any team, let alone OSU.
Quote from: LightBlueJerseys on March 20, 2011, 05:14:30 PM
I know coaching isn't everything, but it is still something. He did lure these probably overlooked players to come to Butler and play together like a well oiled machine.
"Luck is when preparation meets opportunity"
I agree. Coaching is big, and Brad Stevens is a very good coach. Also, even without Hayward, the team is a special group of kids. When they were down one with the last possession, you had to be fairly certain they were going to score, or at the very least get a great look.
Definitely don't think it was luck that they made it to the finals last year or beat Pitt. I think Wisconsin will have its hands full next week. It's strength on strength, and Butler has shown in the last year that they are as comfortable as any other team playing halfcourt basketball. When you beat Pitt and MSU in back-to-back years in the half-court you have to be a great halfcourt team.
That being said, I usually find myself rooting against them. Exceptions: Duke in the championship game and next Thurs.