If you've read this board in the past week (which I doubt you have) you will no doubt notice that theres a lot of topics concerning coaching vacancies around the country that may be interested in you. The reason so many of them are brought up on this board is because we all, deep down inside, although some of us don't always show it, really, really, REALLY want you to stay at Marquette as long as you'll have us. We talk about this because deep down inside, we're a little nervous. we think we have one of the best coaches in the country, a coach that really gets what marquette is about.
We might get a little antsy, a little jittery, maybe even, a little pugnacious, but deep down inside, we all feel very lucky to have you representing our university. we hope you feel the same way and consider to keep Marquette as your home. Given tonights events, theres no doubt in my mind some big schools could be trying to get a hold of you in the next few weeks. Just remember that you have a community that loves you, and hopes that they will be speculating whether you will stay at marquette or move to another school for years and years and years to come.
Good grief.
Buzz is a Southern guy. It's completely understandable if he wanted to go closer to home. It would be nothing personal against MU or the fans if he decided to leave.
Doesn't anyone read other team's boards? MU's fans are gentle in their criticism compared to what is posted elsewhere.
Quote from: KipsBayEagle on March 18, 2011, 10:11:33 PM
If you've read this board in the past week (which I doubt you have) you will no doubt notice that theres a lot of topics concerning coaching vacancies around the country that may be interested in you. The reason so many of them are brought up on this board is because we all, deep down inside, although some of us don't always show it, really, really, REALLY want you to stay at Marquette as long as you'll have us. We talk about this because deep down inside, we're a little nervous. we think we have one of the best coaches in the country, a coach that really gets what marquette is about.
We might get a little antsy, a little jittery, maybe even, a little pugnacious, but deep down inside, we all feel very lucky to have you representing our university. we hope you feel the same way and consider to keep Marquette as your home. Given tonights events, theres no doubt in my mind some big schools could be trying to get a hold of you in the next few weeks. Just remember that you have a community that loves you, and hopes that they will be speculating whether you will stay at marquette or move to another school for years and years and years to come.
+100000000000000000000000000000
Quote from: KipsBayEagle on March 18, 2011, 10:11:33 PM
If you've read this board in the past week (which I doubt you have) you will no doubt notice that theres a lot of topics concerning coaching vacancies around the country that may be interested in you. The reason so many of them are brought up on this board is because we all, deep down inside, although some of us don't always show it, really, really, REALLY want you to stay at Marquette as long as you'll have us. We talk about this because deep down inside, we're a little nervous. we think we have one of the best coaches in the country, a coach that really gets what marquette is about.
We might get a little antsy, a little jittery, maybe even, a little pugnacious, but deep down inside, we all feel very lucky to have you representing our university. we hope you feel the same way and consider to keep Marquette as your home. Given tonights events, theres no doubt in my mind some big schools could be trying to get a hold of you in the next few weeks. Just remember that you have a community that loves you, and hopes that they will be speculating whether you will stay at marquette or move to another school for years and years and years to come.
Great game prep. Couldn't agree more. In Buzz We Trust.
Quote from: willie wampum on March 18, 2011, 10:18:26 PM
Good grief.
Buzz is a Southern guy. It's completely understandable if he wanted to go closer to home. It would be nothing personal against MU or the fans if he decided to leave.
Doesn't anyone read other team's boards? MU's fans are gentle in their criticism compared to what is posted elsewhere.
You really failed to grasp the purpose of this post
Quote from: KipsBayEagle on March 18, 2011, 10:11:33 PM
If you've read this board in the past week (which I doubt you have) you will no doubt notice that theres a lot of topics concerning coaching vacancies around the country that may be interested in you. The reason so many of them are brought up on this board is because we all, deep down inside, although some of us don't always show it, really, really, REALLY want you to stay at Marquette as long as you'll have us. We talk about this because deep down inside, we're a little nervous. we think we have one of the best coaches in the country, a coach that really gets what marquette is about.
We might get a little antsy, a little jittery, maybe even, a little pugnacious, but deep down inside, we all feel very lucky to have you representing our university. we hope you feel the same way and consider to keep Marquette as your home. Given tonights events, theres no doubt in my mind some big schools could be trying to get a hold of you in the next few weeks. Just remember that you have a community that loves you, and hopes that they will be speculating whether you will stay at marquette or move to another school for years and years and years to come.
+1 The MUS communityis fundamentally thrilled to have Buzz at Marquette, and clearly we want him to be our coach. Keep the faith, Buzz. We have faith in you!
Quote from: willie wampum on March 18, 2011, 10:18:26 PM
Buzz is a Southern guy. It's completely understandable if he wanted to go closer to home.
I thought he lived in Mequon?
His kids are from Wisconsin, not Texas. Texas is where their Grandparents live.
To Buzz Williams,
Please win on Sunday.
Thanks,
MUDish
Maybe if we posted more in terms of appreciating him and wanting him to stay, as opposed to negative comments and replacements for him, he will stay. This is getting me down :( I really like Buzz and don't want him to leave; I want him to think back to when Crean left (and the manner in which he did it) and how Marquette had the faith in him to make him our head coach. And I want him to think about the statement he made when he said he would stay for as long as Marquette would have him. And to think about next year and his new and current players that are counting on him and who chose to come to Marquette because of him. And to think about all the fans, friends and people who welcomed him and his family with open arms to the Marquette community. Why do people think the grass is always greener on the other side??
Quote from: MUDish on March 18, 2011, 10:58:53 PM
To Buzz Williams,
Please win on Sunday.
Thanks,
MUDish
I think winning only makes it harder for him to leave
Quote from: KipsBayEagle on March 18, 2011, 10:11:33 PM
If you've read this board in the past week (which I doubt you have) you will no doubt notice that theres a lot of topics concerning coaching vacancies around the country that may be interested in you. The reason so many of them are brought up on this board is because we all, deep down inside, although some of us don't always show it, really, really, REALLY want you to stay at Marquette as long as you'll have us. We talk about this because deep down inside, we're a little nervous. we think we have one of the best coaches in the country, a coach that really gets what marquette is about.
We might get a little antsy, a little jittery, maybe even, a little pugnacious, but deep down inside, we all feel very lucky to have you representing our university. we hope you feel the same way and consider to keep Marquette as your home. Given tonights events, theres no doubt in my mind some big schools could be trying to get a hold of you in the next few weeks. Just remember that you have a community that loves you, and hopes that they will be speculating whether you will stay at marquette or move to another school for years and years and years to come.
Well said.
Buzz--
We like you as a coach, and maybe moreso, as a straightforward person. My children, and the children in your recruit families, appreciate life lessons, and the recognition, that education is about life, and caracter, not just book memorizing, or winning one game. When you stand for something, you want to make that stand where people support your ground---the ground is century old solid at MU, and is committed.
You get it, we get it, and this institution stands for the same, in a world where other institutions who may come calling only pay lip service to sharing your views/outlook, or simply hope to buy it with money-- you know and we know that who you are is not for sale, or even rent. . Watch clips of Al McGuire, or Hank Raymonds, if you doubt me. This is a special place, for special teachers, and men. We support by charity and dedication, and beleive it preferable to a tax supported education factory. Sometimes a school and a coach are simply a well matched good fit.
Please continue to represent my school's mission, in its support of yours.
You, your family, your players, your player's families, me, and my family...WE ARE MARQUETTE!
Quote from: LAZER on March 18, 2011, 11:42:25 PM
I think winning only makes it harder for him to leave
Right.
And to boot, who really wants to coach basketball in football country?!?
I think Oklahoma is where they invented the toothbrush, because anywhere else they would have called it a teethbrush ;D
You guys really think that what you post in this message board is going to majorly influence any decision buzz makes about leaving or staying??? if you really think that, you are crazy and need to re-evaluate your train of thought. I'm pretty sure he's got bigger issues to consider than how some of us here feel...
Quote from: T.V. Diener 34 on March 19, 2011, 12:22:27 AM
You guys really think that what you post in this message board is going to majorly influence any decision buzz makes about leaving or staying??? if you really think that, you are crazy and need to re-evaluate your train of thought. I'm pretty sure he's got bigger issues to consider than how some of us here feel...
I'd rather the MU community error on the side of expressing gratitude and appreciation for Buzz and the job he's done...rather than being indifferent to him staying or going. Buzz is an emotional guy..and if you don't think how he's perceived/valued by our fanbase means anything to him...I'd have to say you are crazy and need to re-evaluate your train of thought.
The Michigan State fans sure made it hard on Izzo this past summer to take the Cavs job...I think it is only human nature to want to be supported/appreciated by your employer/team, etc.
Dear Buzz,
I'm writing to invite you for a game of golfin' this summer. Just you, me, Pearl, and F*ckin'. Please write back soon.
Your Friend,
4ever
Quote from: 4everwarriors on March 19, 2011, 02:57:06 PM
Dear Buzz,
I'm writing to invite you for a game of golfin' this summer. Just you, me, Pearl, and F*ckin'. Please write back soon.
Your Friend,
4ever
I hope this refers to the poster and not a verb.
Quote from: Ners on March 19, 2011, 01:32:57 PM
I'd rather the MU community error on the side of expressing gratitude and appreciation for Buzz and the job he's done...rather than being indifferent to him staying or going. Buzz is an emotional guy..and if you don't think how he's perceived/valued by our fanbase means anything to him...I'd have to say you are crazy and need to re-evaluate your train of thought.
The Michigan State fans sure made it hard on Izzo this past summer to take the Cavs job...I think it is only human nature to want to be supported/appreciated by your employer/team, etc.
I understand this but when you think of all of the factors that go into moving your family to a different part of the country and taking a new job, I don't really think that other people's feelings are taken into account to a significant degree. I think Buzz knows that tons of people here at Marquette support him. At the end of the day if he wants to leave, it's because his heart has always been set on landing the type of job in the South that he's always wanted and no matter what anyone says to persuade him otherwise, he's gone. If he really truly loves Marquette for what the university stands for as well at the city, then he'll stay. Again, it depends on which means more to him; Marquette or taking a different job that he's always truly wanted (whether that means location or prestige).
Quote from: T.V. Diener 34 on March 19, 2011, 03:19:07 PM
I understand this but when you think of all of the factors that go into moving your family to a different part of the country and taking a new job, I don't really think that other people's feelings are taken into account to a significant degree. I think Buzz knows that tons of people here at Marquette support him. At the end of the day if he wants to leave, it's because his heart has always been set on landing the type of job in the South that he's always wanted and no matter what anyone says to persuade him otherwise, he's gone. If he really truly loves Marquette for what the university stands for as well at the city, then he'll stay. Again, it depends on which means more to him; Marquette or taking a different job that he's always truly wanted (whether that means location or prestige).
Agree...just didn't want to write off fan support as totally trivial...but yes..in a list of decision making factors..I'm sure it is down the list.
Quote from: Ners on March 19, 2011, 01:32:57 PM
I'd rather the MU community error on the side of expressing gratitude and appreciation for Buzz and the job he's done...rather than being indifferent to him staying or going. Buzz is an emotional guy..and if you don't think how he's perceived/valued by our fanbase means anything to him...I'd have to say you are crazy and need to re-evaluate your train of thought.
The Michigan State fans sure made it hard on Izzo this past summer to take the Cavs job...I think it is only human nature to want to be supported/appreciated by your employer/team, etc.
I agree.
Mods--
With the steady stream of distracting new threads on other job vacancies, I wish a permanent priority would be given to a "Congrats to Buzz, we'd like you to Stay" thread, or Banner posting of such be posted..
..as this remains our overiding priority, and as we hope it is is that of MU and Buzz, that he stays
Quote from: LovinCrowder on March 18, 2011, 11:15:18 PM
Maybe if we posted more in terms of appreciating him and wanting him to stay, as opposed to negative comments and replacements for him, he will stay. This is getting me down :( I really like Buzz and don't want him to leave; I want him to think back to when Crean left (and the manner in which he did it) and how Marquette had the faith in him to make him our head coach. And I want him to think about the statement he made when he said he would stay for as long as Marquette would have him. And to think about next year and his new and current players that are counting on him and who chose to come to Marquette because of him. And to think about all the fans, friends and people who welcomed him and his family with open arms to the Marquette community. Why do people think the grass is always greener on the other side??
One other thing I would want him to think about..... to think about the look on those player's faces and how they felt when they found out their coach was leaving them (and to find out on tv, too, which makes it that much worse)........
Buzz is more than a coach to these young men - he is a father figure.... just sayin...
Interesting quote by Crowder in article:
http://www.foxsportswisconsin.com/03/21/11/Buzz-Golden-Eagles-in-tears-after-emotio/landing_marquette.html?blockID=445081&feedID=5059
He couldn't really talk," Golden Eagles forward Jae Crowder said. "He just cried. We knew how he felt. We saw that, and a lot of guys got teary-eyed and a lot of guys got real emotional. When he came in the locker room, he actually made me cry. Just the way he was talking. We knew the situations he was put in the whole year with people talking bad about him and stuff like that."
I think we can all agree that Buzz is going to be connected with almost ever high level job in the near future.
With that being said, if Buzz thinks that the MU fans are hard on him or "talking bad about him" I can guarantee that the Big 12 fans will be far worse.
Quote from: westwarrior on March 21, 2011, 11:33:24 PM
Interesting quote by Crowder in article:
http://www.foxsportswisconsin.com/03/21/11/Buzz-Golden-Eagles-in-tears-after-emotio/landing_marquette.html?blockID=445081&feedID=5059
He couldn't really talk," Golden Eagles forward Jae Crowder said. "He just cried. We knew how he felt. We saw that, and a lot of guys got teary-eyed and a lot of guys got real emotional. When he came in the locker room, he actually made me cry. Just the way he was talking. We knew the situations he was put in the whole year with people talking bad about him and stuff like that."
Phenomenal article...the relationship he has with his players really is special...I hope Buzz stays put for a REALLY long time, he's a tremendous ambassador to this school...
Got get 'em in Newark, Buzz!
Great article. Hope the Buzz magic continues.
Quote from: westwarrior on March 21, 2011, 11:33:24 PM
Crowder :
We knew the situations he was put in the whole year with people talking bad about him and stuff like that."
I dont like hearing that any negative talk on a coach was reaching any player ---as it is not good for the coach, and can undermine player relationships. Tenn. players quit on Pearl before Tenn announced it was quitting on him. Words can have an impact, including negative results. Be careful.
I dont think we have to worry about the mild criticism here and there on this board.
Now, if rosiak starts calling for his head daily, thats a different story.
Great article; love Buzz.
First you have the Heat getting torched for crying after the Bulls beat them. That generated a lot of publicity, mostly negative. Seems like it's OK in the college game, whether it be tears of joy after a win or despair after a tough loss. Watching the Marquette women last night (great game and great season) on ESPN and then watching the other games finish up, the cameramen spent a lot of time focusing on the losing teams benches and players in tears. Tears are here to stay in basketball!
Quote from: westwarrior on March 21, 2011, 11:33:24 PM
Interesting quote by Crowder in article:
http://www.foxsportswisconsin.com/03/21/11/Buzz-Golden-Eagles-in-tears-after-emotio/landing_marquette.html?blockID=445081&feedID=5059
He couldn't really talk," Golden Eagles forward Jae Crowder said. "He just cried. We knew how he felt. We saw that, and a lot of guys got teary-eyed and a lot of guys got real emotional. When he came in the locker room, he actually made me cry. Just the way he was talking. We knew the situations he was put in the whole year with people talking bad about him and stuff like that."
This ties into the comments Buzz made last week to the effect that 6 weeks ago some people did not think I could coach. Then he did not come out and deny the OU/Arkansas rumors - after saying he would be here as long as MU wanted him a year earlier. This is the reason that I worry/worried he may leave. No, it is not the message board, it's some of the more influential alums/former players. MU has had a history of this as well. Majerus commented on it. KO said it when he left as well.
Is it different here than anywhere else? I kind of doubt it. I know it had an impact at UW with Bennett, but, for some reason, it get's mentioned here a lot - probably because I am closer to MU than anywhere else.
MuMac--I think you are 100% correct. All the coaches you mentioned had the same complaint. You can say they are thin skinned or they feel the fans are unrealistic. Ironically I do not believe most fans have unrealistic goals, yet they complain like we should expect Elite 8 every year.
IMO, MU fans, myself included, need to do a better job of supporting program. Whether it is actually going to a crappy game on a cold night at the BC to looking more at the positives.
For a program that has never hired a top tier HC and has three Sweet 16 appearances in 30 years I am not sure on reason for being critical. I am critical because I think we should hire a top tier guy and get to Sweet 16 more often. If we continue to hire assistant coaches or mid major guys we have no reason to complain.
Quote from: Goose on March 22, 2011, 09:19:34 AM
MuMac--I think you are 100% correct. All the coaches you mentioned had the same complaint. You can say they are thin skinned or they feel the fans are unrealistic. Ironically I do not believe most fans have unrealistic goals, yet they complain like we should expect Elite 8 every year.
IMO, MU fans, myself included, need to do a better job of supporting program. Whether it is actually going to a crappy game on a cold night at the BC to looking more at the positives.
For a program that has never hired a top tier HC and has three Sweet 16 appearances in 30 years I am not sure on reason for being critical. I am critical because I think we should hire a top tier guy and get to Sweet 16 more often. If we continue to hire assistant coaches or mid major guys we have no reason to complain.
I love it when people are rational. Thanks for this.
The whole crying thing is way over-the-top. What "situations" was Buzz put in this year? The MU beat reporter (Rosiak) is one of the softest guys around. All he does is recap games, and never gives any criticism. Coaches would pray to be covered by a guy like that. I don't recall any huge public outcry to fire Buzz, either. So was all this "talking bad about him" coming from just the minority of people on a message board? Geez, go to other team's sites, and you'll see some real venom. If Buzz thinks it's difficult here, then he really does have a thin skin and he wouldn't be able to handle a bigger market, imo.
Quote from: boyonthedock on March 22, 2011, 02:19:57 AM
I dont think we have to worry about the mild criticism here and there on this board.
MILD criticism HERE and THERE on this board? That's what happens here when we win.
Lenny--I have read posts for couple of years and recently started posting. I do not think we have a great deal of criticism on here, but think one big component of MU fans is missing. I do not think there is a common goal amongst MU backers. Easy to say we want to win and be great, but difficult to determine how to achieve that goal.
I would say with a high level of confidence that from Majerus to KO to Crean they all would agree that MU ball lacks identity. Some of us believe we are Harvard and whatever we accomplish on court is great, while some of us believe MU's ball is important for overall success of school. Trust me most school's have a real agenda.
Our coaches have done wonders with what they are given. We have higher academic standards for our kids than school's with better academics. I would love to see MU have a basketball mission statement that meant something.
Interesting discussion on what makes MU different. I think part of it is the big enough, yet small enough quality that is present throughout the university, but also shows up in the athletic department. This was something I loved about my experiences at MU, big enough to be a major university, yet small enough and tight-knit to still feel like family.
We're obviously a big time basketball program, but we still rely very heavily on a lot of donors sending in some decent size checks. We have a relatively small fan base compared to big state schools, but still draw big crowds and have incredibly passionate support from that fanbase.
On the sliding scale of donations to the program, I would guess we have a higher percentage of people in the middle than most schools. I'd guess that big state schools would have more people on each end, more big donors and a ton more smaller donors. The fact we're small gives these medium donors a lot of access and makes them think they have influence. This might give us a higher percentage of people trying to meddle behind the scene. I would think at a big state school it would be more skewed toward big donors calling the shots and the masses of smaller donors not having the access that people enjoy here.
Really great article, thanks for posting that.
I watched the last few minutes of the SYR game back this morning, specifically to see the end and see Buzz going up to the stands to see his family. It really was pretty emotional. His wife was clearly crying and the last person he grabbed in a hug was his son, who slapped Buzz on the back in congratulations. Buzz said in that last presser something along the lines of, his wife and kids are the ones who are making the sacrifices for him to do this job, so to see them have that moment as a family was really special.
In another thread someone said Corey Williams is the wild card and she has a lot to do with whether or not Buzz goes to OK - maybe the single deciding factor in Buzz's decision making process, if he's even entertaining the idea of going. I recall Buzz saying something about Corey having a special understanding of the grind he goes through as former basketball player herself. And then seeing that moment he shared with his family, I have to believe that Buzz is staying, and that his wife and kids are just as invested in Marquette and the MU experience as he is, and that the location of Milwaukee is just geography...home is where the heart is, and they won't go to OK just to be "closer to home". Hopefully Milwaukee and Marquette are home, are family, to them. Certainly the players' quotes in that article support that idea.
So if Corey is the decision maker on this, what do we need to do to insure Buzz stays?
If that is the case, there's nothing we can do. It's between Buzz and his wife.
That said, only thing we could possibly do as fans is not make her feel like we're trying to run her husband out on a rail every time he loses. And it's not this board in particular that I'm targeting. Obviously negative feedback has gotten to the team, per the comments Joe Fulce has made on Twitter/Facebook and the comments Jae made in the interview. And Buzz himself said 6 weeks ago people were saying he can't coach. There have to be sources closer to them than a fan board that are filtering these comments to Buzz and the team. Houwarrior made a good point that you have to be careful with words because they can damage relationships (see players bailing on Pearl) but it seems clear from how the team has rallied in their court performance and in their comments that any negative comments towards Buzz just make them feel protective of him.
I'm rambling but the point is, if Corey is the deciding factor, we have no control at all over what their decision as a family is. Only thing we can do is hope they feel like Marquette is more than a paycheck, and that they feel at home in Milwaukee so the whole idea of "going home to the south" isn't as big a factor. KipsBayEagle took some mocking for writing this open letter to begin with, but it's a good start, I think.
Buzz: we love how you coach and we love you as a person. You are a great teacher of life to a lot of people - not only the players, but to everyone in touch with the Marquette program. We hope you stay at Marquette a long, long time.
We have two cottages in Door County on Lake Michigan that you and your family are welcome to stay at anytime.
Continue to enjoy the ride! Fight hard to beat UNC!
I and others have posted here that the players, coaches and athletic department read these boards. If there is any question as to why Jae/Buzz have made the statements they've made - look no further than yourself and what you post.
Fans will be fans everywhere..and there will always be some over-reaction, and undue criticism leveled at players and coaches. There definitely are schools/universities where fans are far more critical, over-reactionary, venomous, etc..than are the fans at MU (see Oklahoma,Texas, Auburn., Alabams - particularily in football)..
But, at the end of the day our kids are just that - kids: 18-22 years old busting their a$$ for MU. They can get scholarships from virtually any school in the country - so let's not act like MU is giving them something other schools aren't offering. These kids are the reason MU is getting so much publicity, and MU can be identified on a national level. They and the coaching staff - who work their asses of too - deserve our unconditional support. Particularily when they are highly competitive, in the brutal Big East, and stay out of trouble off the court..and from most all accounts are really good kids who are trying to do right in their life in every way possible.
Sometimes, moving back closer to your in-laws and parents may not be all its cracked up to be...... ;)
There was a poll, and what were the numbers--200 to 2 that didn't want Buzz fired. Why do people continue to overstate the nature of and reasons for the criticism?
Frankly, the criticism over the course of the year was deserved.
From my perspective, we finally saw against Syracuse and Xavier was what I felt all along that this team is capable of doing.
No matter how much someone defends Buzz, they would have to admit that the team right now is is playing differently than they were earlier this season when the criticisms were made.
Buzz is now making excellent 2nd half adjustments--not losing double-digit leads.
Otule has stepped up both his rebounding and his aggressiveness toward the hoop--no longer a defensive sieve.
Our team's clutch FT shooting has improved.
Our 3 point shooting has improved--especially from DJO.
Our 3 point shooting defense has SIGNIFICANTLY improved.
Frankly, had we played all season like we are now, we would have been in contention for a Big East Championship and finished top 10 in the country.
I'm not going to sit here and claim that the coaches and players read this criticism, took it to heart, and responded based solely because of what they read on this board.
But I'd also bet that Buzz would be the first to admit that he coached the Louisville game wrong--probably Gonzaga, Duke, Vanderbilt, Wisconsin, and Notre Dame as well. I'll bet that DJO would admit that he wasn't hitting his 3 point shot earlier in the year and worked hard to regain his stroke. I'll bet the entire team would admit they weren't defending the 3 point shot the way they knew they were capable of.
Too many people here confuse legitimate criticism with "hatred" or "agendas" and I'm tired of it. Being a fan doesn't require that one sandbag at the start of the year, defend every mistake or shift blame for every obvious problem, or make excuses for sub-par performance the way some here do.
I'm glad the team is playing the way they are right now.
I'm disappointed that we weren't playing like this earlier in the season.
Quote from: Marquette84 on March 23, 2011, 10:42:37 AM
There was a poll, and what were the numbers--200 to 2 that didn't want Buzz fired. Why do people continue to overstate the nature of and reasons for the criticism?
Frankly, the criticism over the course of the year was deserved.
From my perspective, we finally saw against Syracuse and Xavier was what I felt all along that this team is capable of doing.
No matter how much someone defends Buzz, they would have to admit that the team right now is is playing differently than they were earlier this season when the criticisms were made.
Buzz is now making excellent 2nd half adjustments--not losing double-digit leads.
Otule has stepped up both his rebounding and his aggressiveness toward the hoop--no longer a defensive sieve.
Our team's clutch FT shooting has improved.
Our 3 point shooting has improved--especially from DJO.
Our 3 point shooting defense has SIGNIFICANTLY improved.
Frankly, had we played all season like we are now, we would have been in contention for a Big East Championship and finished top 10 in the country.
I'm not going to sit here and claim that the coaches and players read this criticism, took it to heart, and responded based solely because of what they read on this board.
But I'd also bet that Buzz would be the first to admit that he coached the Louisville game wrong--probably Gonzaga, Duke, Vanderbilt, Wisconsin, and Notre Dame as well. I'll bet that DJO would admit that he wasn't hitting his 3 point shot earlier in the year and worked hard to regain his stroke. I'll bet the entire team would admit they weren't defending the 3 point shot the way they knew they were capable of.
Too many people here confuse legitimate criticism with "hatred" or "agendas" and I'm tired of it. Being a fan doesn't require that one sandbag at the start of the year, defend every mistake or shift blame for every obvious problem, or make excuses for sub-par performance the way some here do.
I'm glad the team is playing the way they are right now.
I'm disappointed that we weren't playing like this earlier in the season.
News Alert 84 - when players start to make shots and free throws..they win more games. Coaching has very little to do with a guy making free throw or 3 point shots. The sooner you realize that victories are 90-95% the result of "players playing" and not coaches coaching..the better.
You expect perfection out of our team and coaches..which is ridiculous. So now you are happy, because we essentially are playing perfect....but our guys deserved your wrath for most of the regular season??
Buzz doesn't "blow 2nd half leads" or make adjustments that result in vicotry any more now than he did earlier in the year...the team is shooting better now..and defending better...some nights a guy just goes off and beats you...a la Preston Knowles at Lville...
I said in another post that the 2011 Marquette NCAA Tournament Team would kick the 2011 Marquette Conference Play Team's ass. And I don't think constructive criticism is at all unwarranted. This season was very frustrating to watch as a fan. We could all see the talent and the potential, but the guys couldn't seem to play together as unit until now. Game prep and execution seem light years ahead of where we were only three weeks ago. The chemistry seems to have finally materialized. We weren't playing like this during conf play and it was frustrating and there were improvements to be made, to be sure. Criticism and concern were justified.
That said, I can't see how there can be any denying that anonymous message boards give people a platform to spew vitriol, personal attacks and criticism that is anything BUT constructive. Is it the majority of the posters? No. But if you're in a room of 100 people and 99 of them say nice things, you're likely only going to notice the 1 person who says the negative things, mostly because he's screaming the loudest.
And clearly Buzz and the team were hearing the negative things and it affected them enough to now be making references to "people thinking I can't coach" and "putting our coach in bad situations, saying bad things about him". Maybe it put a chip on their shoulders and the result is the improvement in all the areas you, 84, noted below. They were clearly responding to something. I wouldn't doubt if it was MU Scoop. Or the Scout board. Or the ESPN commentators. Or the Rivals board. Or...or....or.............
Quote from: Marquette84 on March 23, 2011, 10:42:37 AM
There was a poll, and what were the numbers--200 to 2 that didn't want Buzz fired. Why do people continue to overstate the nature of and reasons for the criticism?
Frankly, the criticism over the course of the year was deserved.
From my perspective, we finally saw against Syracuse and Xavier was what I felt all along that this team is capable of doing.
Problem is, all of this assumes - incorrectly - that the team in November, December and even early January is the same as it is today, and eliminates the fact that players, especially young and/or inexperienced players, will improve over the course of a season.
Is it really a surprise that Chris Otule - who'd only played limited minutes against cupcakes heading into the season - was better at the end of his first Big East go around than the beginning?
Is it a surprise that Junior Cadougan, who came into the season with all 47 minutes experience, has improved significantly?
Is it a surprise that a kid who shot 47 percent from behind the arc last year was eventually going to start knocking down his shots?
These aren't the results of anything the coaching staff is doing now, failed to do earlier or changed. It's the natural flow and development of the game and players. The team today is different than the team in December, and what they're doing today they weren't capable of doing then.
By the way, there is no more overrated thing in all of sports than the so-called "halftime adjustment." The notion that a coaching staff is going to work for days coming up with a game plan, spend hours in practice teaching its team to execute it properly and then change it all up because it's "halftime" is silly. Adjustments - contingencies created and practiced as part of the game plan - are made throughout a game, depending on what's happening on the court.
I believe it was Phil Simms who said that in all his years as a pro, he can recall one time in which a coaching staff made a "halftime adjustment."
Quote from: Ners on March 23, 2011, 10:55:38 AM
News Alert 84 - when players start to make shots and free throws..they win more games. Coaching has very little to do with a guy making free throw or 3 point shots. The sooner you realize that victories are 90-95% the result of "players playing" and not coaches coaching..the better.
You expect perfection out of our team and coaches..which is ridiculous. So now you are happy, because we essentially are playing perfect....but our guys deserved your wrath for most of the regular season??
Buzz doesn't "blow 2nd half leads" or make adjustments that result in vicotry any more now than he did earlier in the year...the team is shooting better now..and defending better...some nights a guy just goes off and beats you...a la Preston Knowles at Lville...
Typical. Nothing but a straw man from you. Where did I say I expected perfection?
I said if we played earlier in the year like we are now, we would have been competing for a league title. Last I checked, neither Pitt nor Notre Dame were perfect.
Either agree with me that we are playing better. Or tell me why you think the talent and coaching at ND and Pitt are so superior that we couldn't expect to compete with those teams with the way we're playing now.
Quote from: Pakuni on March 23, 2011, 11:23:40 AM
Problem is, all of this assumes - incorrectly - that the team in November, December and even early January is the same as it is today, and eliminates the fact that players, especially young and/or inexperienced players, will improve over the course of a season.
Every team plays the same calendar. Starts in November, ends in March.
We improved relative to those other teams. Not just relative to where we were earlier in November.
Quote from: Pakuni on March 23, 2011, 11:23:40 AM
Is it really a surprise that Chris Otule - who'd only played limited minutes against cupcakes heading into the season - was better at the end of his first Big East go around than the beginning?
Yes, because even as late as January it didn't look like he was going to help us this year.
Quote from: Pakuni on March 23, 2011, 11:23:40 AM
Is it a surprise that Junior Cadougan, who came into the season with all 47 minutes experience, has improved significantly?
Yes, because even as late as February, it didn't look like he was going to improve significantly.
Quote from: Pakuni on March 23, 2011, 11:23:40 AM
Is it a surprise that a kid who shot 47 percent from behind the arc last year was eventually going to start knocking down his shots?
Yes, because he was drawing better defenders this year--it certainly seemed like he may have been the beneficiary of playing alongside outstanding 3 point shooters like Acker & Hayward, rather than being the only guy respected by the other team.
Quote from: Pakuni on March 23, 2011, 11:23:40 AM
These aren't the results of anything the coaching staff is doing now, failed to do earlier or changed. It's the natural flow and development of the game and players. The team today is different than the team in December, and what they're doing today they weren't capable of doing then.
If anyone could sit in the chair and get the same improvement over the course of the season, why didn't all teams show the same improvement? Why didn't all inexperience players suddenly start getting better? Why didn't all teams tighen up their 3 point defense?
Quote from: Pakuni on March 23, 2011, 11:23:40 AM
By the way, there is no more overrated thing in all of sports than the so-called "halftime adjustment." The notion that a coaching staff is going to work for days coming up with a game plan, spend hours in practice teaching its team to execute it properly and then change it all up because it's "halftime" is silly. Adjustments - contingencies created and practiced as part of the game plan - are made throughout a game, depending on what's happening on the court.
I believe it was Phil Simms who said that in all his years as a pro, he can recall one time in which a coaching staff made a "halftime adjustment."
Maybe the reason Phil Simms doesn't remember any halftime adjustments is because he was never in a college basketball locker room at halftime.
Quote from: Ners on March 23, 2011, 10:55:38 AM
News Alert 84 - when players start to make shots and free throws..they win more games. Coaching has very little to do with a guy making free throw or 3 point shots. The sooner you realize that victories are 90-95% the result of "players playing" and not coaches coaching..the better.
You expect perfection out of our team and coaches..which is ridiculous. So now you are happy, because we essentially are playing perfect....but our guys deserved your wrath for most of the regular season??
Buzz doesn't "blow 2nd half leads" or make adjustments that result in vicotry any more now than he did earlier in the year...the team is shooting better now..and defending better...some nights a guy just goes off and beats you...a la Preston Knowles at Lville...
Disagree Ners, it's more than that. The last few games the boys have played great defense and had a great scheme. That was lacking most of the year. Maybe they are finally gelling, but MU84's concerns and those of many others here during the year were warranted. MU had the talent to be better than 9th...glad we're putting it together now. It's more than just "hitting 3's" now, they are playing better ball, much more intensity, etc.
Quote from: Marquette84 on March 23, 2011, 12:48:53 PM
Every team plays the same calendar. Starts in November, ends in March.
We improved relative to those other teams. Not just relative to where we were earlier in November.
So, you're suggesting that every team, regardless of experience, age, talent, etc., has the exact same capacity to develop over the course of a season?
Hmmm.
QuoteYes, because even as late as January it didn't look like he was going to help us this year.
Never mind the 12 points in 20 minutes vs Vandy.
Or 8 in 18 vs Notre Dame.
Or three blocked shots in eight minutes against UW.
They told us nothing about Chris' potential.
QuoteYes, because even as late as February, it didn't look like he was going to improve significantly.
Never mind the 8 assists to one turnover at Rutgers.
Or the 7 to one against Duke.
Clearly no reason to believe there was a higher ceiling on the kid.
QuoteYes, because he was drawing better defenders this year--it certainly seemed like he may have been the beneficiary of playing alongside outstanding 3 point shooters like Acker & Hayward, rather than being the only guy respected by the other team.
Support this. Who defended him this year that wasn't last year?
And has he suddenly been guarded by lesser defenders in recent weeks than he was when he shot 3-for-20 earlier this year against Texas A&M Corpus-Christi, Longwood, Centenary, South Dakota and Bucknell?
QuoteMaybe the reason Phil Simms doesn't remember any halftime adjustments is because he was never in a college basketball locker room at halftime.
Oh, boy.
Sure, because coaching in the NFL can't compare to the complexities and intracacies of college basketball.
I assume your attempt at wit is admission that all this halftime adjustment talk is folly.
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on March 23, 2011, 12:54:06 PM
Disagree Ners, it's more than that. The last few games the boys have played great defense and had a great scheme. That was lacking most of the year. Maybe they are finally gelling, but MU84's concerns and those of many others here during the year were warranted. MU had the talent to be better than 9th...glad we're putting it together now. It's more than just "hitting 3's" now, they are playing better ball, much more intensity, etc.
As has been pointed out..this year's team was relatively young with regard to D-1 experience. Is it talented? Absolutely. Does that point toward a team most likely improving as the season goes on? Absolutely. Many here felt this team would get better as the season wore on - and they have. They are still the same kids, possess the same level of "talent," as they did in November. They have just grown and acquired more experience...and along the way started hitting some shots. We beat Cuse in January, and now we beat them again in March..
As you know, where I get annoyed is when our fans knee jerk react, get hyper critical, and don't take a big picture view as to the entirety of the team's circumstances: schedule strength, experience, shooting prowess, etc...It's been a frustrating season...but by no means does that mean it is the coaches fault...players still have to be able to execute a gameplan..and it appears finally...MU is getting better collectively as a defensive group..
Wow, a positive appreciative thread turns into the same two wet blankets trying to "set the record straight" in an attempt to justify their year-long complaining. Never saw that one coming.
Quote from: Jamailman on March 23, 2011, 01:37:50 PM
Wow, a positive appreciative thread turns into the same two wet blankets trying to "set the record straight" in an attempt to justify their year-long complaining. Never saw that one coming.
Well noted.
The thread is started, as To Buzz Williams...please stay and it digresses to postings that are off point and narcissistic.
Please, men...take it outside.....outside this thread, especially as new threads are cropping up every 10 minutes.
Thanks, in advance, for your consideration.
Quote from: Jamailman on March 23, 2011, 01:37:50 PM
Wow, a positive appreciative thread turns into the same two wet blankets trying to "set the record straight" in an attempt to justify their year-long complaining. Never saw that one coming.
+1,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000.
Buzz gets a team with very little experience playing together to peak at the exact right time and all we get are complaints - as if 84 coaching the team would have resulted in this sort of success much earlier. LOL
I know we became accustomed under the previous regime to teams that faded miserably down the stretch (with one exception) but guess what SJS? The IDEA is to be playing your best basketball in March, not holding on for dear life. That memo never made it to the desk of your hero so I'm not surprised you're unafamiliar with the concept.
Quote from: Pakuni on March 23, 2011, 01:08:48 PM
So, you're suggesting that every team, regardless of experience, age, talent, etc., has the exact same capacity to develop over the course of a season?
Hmmm.
Nope--never said that. I think there's a normal distribution/bell shaped curve. Some develop more than average, some less.
But I firmly reject your implication that MU alone had the chance to improve over the course of the season. We had no more or less chance than anyone else.
But even at that, I am willing to credit changes that Buzz made over the course of the season--not some normal development over the course of the season.
Quote from: Pakuni on March 23, 2011, 01:08:48 PM
Oh, boy.
Sure, because coaching in the NFL can't compare to the complexities and intracacies of college basketball.
I assume your attempt at wit is admission that all this halftime adjustment talk is folly.
Of course it can't compare.
If you've ever watched a football game you'd know that the game stops for nearly the equivalent of a timeout after every play. The offense and defense get the equivalent of a halftime every time the ball switches sides. And the offense and defense are never on the field at the same time.
So Simms comment makes perfect sense--if he throws three straight incompletes and all receivers are well covered, they're not going to wait until halftime to fix the situation--an adjustment will be made for the next set of downs. A football coach (or offensive coordinator) doesn't make adjustments at
halftime because they have plenty of time to do so during the normal flow of the game.
Quote from: Lennys Tap on March 23, 2011, 05:01:25 PM
+1,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000.
Buzz gets a team with very little experience playing together to peak at the exact right time and all we get are complaints - as if 84 coaching the team would have resulted in this sort of success much earlier. LOL
So what are you saying, Lenny? Are you saying that Buzz made no coaching moves to improve the team? That it was just that the players needed more experience?
Sounds harsh.
Quote from: Marquette84 on March 23, 2011, 07:48:57 PM
So what are you saying, Lenny? Are you saying that Buzz made no coaching moves to improve the team? That it was just that the players needed more experience?
Sounds harsh.
You look like such a fool when you argue for the sake of arguing. Too bad you can't see it.
Quote from: ATL MU Warrior on March 23, 2011, 07:54:30 PM
You look like such a fool when you argue for the sake of arguing. Too bad you can't see it.
Yeah, I suppose you're right.
The only reason we lost any game this year was because the Nerdlucks (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Space_Jam) stole the talent of the Marquette players.
Quote from: Jamailman on March 23, 2011, 01:37:50 PM
Wow, a positive appreciative thread turns into the same two wet blankets trying to "set the record straight" in an attempt to justify their year-long complaining. Never saw that one coming.
LOL
Quote from: msbjim on March 23, 2011, 09:10:19 AM
Buzz: we love how you coach and we love you as a person. You are a great teacher of life to a lot of people - not only the players, but to everyone in touch with the Marquette program. We hope you stay at Marquette a long, long time.
We have two cottages in Door County on Lake Michigan that you and your family are welcome to stay at anytime.
Continue to enjoy the ride! Fight hard to beat UNC!
Buzz said thanks and to leave the keys with me. ;D
Quote from: Marquette84 on March 23, 2011, 08:24:33 PM
Yeah, I suppose you're right.
The only reason we lost any game this year was because the Nerdlucks (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Space_Jam) stole the talent of the Marquette players.
If you refuse to accept the universally accepted idea that teams (especially young, inexperienced ones like MU this year) improve over time as players gain experience and confidence then you are beyond help. And the fact that by refusing to accept it you have somehow convinced yourself that you are the intellectual superior to everyone else on this board is beyond pathetic.
I'm done with you. Ignored. I'll be smarter for never having to read your drivel again.
Quote from: Marquette84 on March 23, 2011, 07:08:12 PM
I think there's a normal distribution/bell shaped curve. Some develop more than average, some less.
QuoteWe had no more or less chance than anyone else.
You realize, don't you, that these are two entirely contradictory statements?
Either there's a bell curve in which some develop more than average and some develop less, or all teams have the same chance to develop.
Which is it?
Still waiting for you to explain your "DJO faced better defenders" theory in light of the fact he shot poorer against cupcakes than he did against Big East and NCAA tournament competition.
QuoteOf course it can't compare.
If you've ever watched a football game you'd know that the game stops for nearly the equivalent of a timeout after every play. The offense and defense get the equivalent of a halftime every time the ball switches sides. And the offense and defense are never on the field at the same time. So Simms comment makes perfect sense--if he throws three straight incompletes and all receivers are well covered, they're not going to wait until halftime to fix the situation--an adjustment will be made for the next set of downs. A football coach (or offensive coordinator) doesn't make adjustments at halftime because they have plenty of time to do so during the normal flow of the game.
Your description of a football game makes me wonder if you've ever watched one. The equivalent of a halftime every time the ball changes hands? A timeout between every play?
Regardless, I have to ask, what are you saying here?
1. There aren't enough timeouts and stoppages of play during a basketball game for coaches to make adjustments at any time other than halftime. Never mind those four media timeouts per half, breaks during free throws and up to 10 team timeouts per game.
2. Despite having up to 20 hours of practice time a week, college basketball players need more than the allotted time outs during a half to comprehend and execute changes in strategy. They need and entire halftime period to do so.
3. A staff of a head coach, three full-time assistants and others on staff are not capable of preparing a game plan with multiple strategies and contingencies, and then teaching that plan to a team during 20 hours of practice a week well enough to be flexible during the game itself, but rather they need a half time to make adjustments.
[/quote]
Quote from: ATL MU Warrior on March 23, 2011, 09:04:36 PM
If you refuse to accept the universally accepted idea that teams (especially young, inexperienced ones like MU this year) improve over time as players gain experience and confidence then you are beyond help. And the fact that by refusing to accept it you have somehow convinced yourself that you are the intellectual superior to everyone else on this board is beyond pathetic.
I reject the notion that Marquette in unique in the capacity to improve over the course of the season. Every other team in D1 had the same amount of time and the same number of games to improve over the course of the year.
Lets take the Gonzaga game as an example. People would unthinkingly say that because 4 months and 28 games have given us more experience, we'd play much stronger against them now.
I'm merely saying that Gonzaga had the same 4 months and 28 games to get better--so any relative improvement vis-a-vis Gonzaga is likely not due to the passage of time and our playing of 28 games since then, but rather is because of something else.
I also reject your argument that we were young and inexperienced. Our main rotation included 3 seniors, 2 juniors, one 3rd year sophomore, two true sophomores and only two frosh.
But even at that, its worth looking at the basic "universally accepted idea"that young teams have a greater capacity for in-season development. St. Johns made significant improvement over the course of the season--yet they are by far the most experienced team in conference. UConn is the youngest and least experienced team, and started the season 10-0, including non-conference wins over Kentucky and Michigan State. They didn't play poorly at the start only to improve with their capatiy for development. Other young teams include DePaul and Providence, who played poorly from start to finish.Our experience level matched Villanova--yet quite a different level of improvement.
So the "universally accepted idea" doesn't appear to be universally
valid.
So perhaps my problem is that Marquette has instilled such a sense of curiosity, that when someone posts a "universally accepted idea", I want to know if there is any validity to it. In this case, it might be universally accepted--but that doesn't make it true.
I apologize if you think that's pathetic.
Quote from: Pakuni on March 23, 2011, 09:06:30 PM
You realize, don't you, that these are two entirely contradictory statements?
Either there's a bell curve in which some develop more than average and some develop less, or all teams have the same chance to develop.
Which is it?
Not really. Every team is going to fall somewhere on that curve.
Its not like Marquette can develop ahead of the rest of the universe simply with the passage of time and playing of games. Everyone else has that same capability to develop leveraging their games and their 4 months of the season.
Therefore, if we improve more than another team, its not because of the passage of time--its due to other changes. I think primarily coaching changes.
Quote from: Pakuni on March 23, 2011, 09:06:30 PM
Still waiting for you to explain your "DJO faced better defenders" theory in light of the fact he shot poorer against cupcakes than he did against Big East and NCAA tournament competition.
Actually, this isn't true--unless you're including Duke, Gonzaga, and Vanderbilt as cupcakes.
These 4 teams DJO shot 25.0%
Conference play he shot: 37.9%
My opinion is that opposing coaches did not respect anyone's 3 point shooting but DJO, hence focused on him early in the season. When Buzz started to give the green to Crowder--it forced opponsing defense to cover him as well and opened things up for DJO.
Quote from: Pakuni on March 23, 2011, 09:06:30 PM
Your description of a football game makes me wonder if you've ever watched one. The equivalent of a halftime every time the ball changes hands? A timeout between every play?
Regardless, I have to ask, what are you saying here?
There's a 45 second clock
between each play. The game comes to a complete stop while teams huddle. You're not going to see that in college basketball. I've quite often seen a quarterback or other players head to the sidelines and converse with his coach between downs. Time wise, its roughly the equivalent to a basketball time out on every play.
Meanwhile, whenever the offense (or defense) comes off the field, there might easily be 15 to 20 minutes of real time (5-7 minutes of game clock) before they have to go back out. They have about the same amount of time as a basketball halftime to work with the offensive coordinator, look at the photos sent down from the skybox, analyze what's going right, what's going wrong etc. When they go back in, the coaches can spend the same amount of time with the defense. Every time the offense/defense changes sides.
In basketball, unlike football the same players play both offense and defense, hence they don't have the luxury of in-depth discussions with the coaching staff. And, of course, they can't stop to huddle between plays.
Quote from: Pakuni on March 23, 2011, 09:06:30 PM
1. There aren't enough timeouts and stoppages of play during a basketball game for coaches to make adjustments at any time other than halftime. Never mind those four media timeouts per half, breaks during free throws and up to 10 team timeouts per game.
2. Despite having up to 20 hours of practice time a week, college basketball players need more than the allotted time outs during a half to comprehend and execute changes in strategy. They need and entire halftime period to do so.
3. A staff of a head coach, three full-time assistants and others on staff are not capable of preparing a game plan with multiple strategies and contingencies, and then teaching that plan to a team during 20 hours of practice a week well enough to be flexible during the game itself, but rather they need a half time to make adjustments.
Now you're going off the rails a bit. Go back and read what I wrote. I didn't say "halftime" adjustments. I said "2nd half".
For example, this qualifies as a 2nd half adjustment: the change Buzz made during the timeout at 12:46 in the 2nd half against Syracuse right after SU made a run went from being down by 2 to up by 5. That's the type of thing that I did not see effectively used against Louisvlle or @Notre Dame, for instance.
Quote from: ATL MU Warrior on March 23, 2011, 09:04:36 PM
I'm done with you. Ignored. I'll be smarter for never having to read your drivel again.
Can I request that you put me on ignore as well....it would make me feel a lot better and would be one less stalker to deal with.
Quote from: Marquette84 on March 24, 2011, 12:06:56 AM
Actually, this isn't true--unless you're including Duke, Gonzaga, and Vanderbilt as cupcakes.
These 4 teams DJO shot 25.0%
Conference play he shot: 37.9%
My opinion is that opposing coaches did not respect anyone's 3 point shooting but DJO, hence focused on him early in the season. When Buzz started to give the green to Crowder--it forced opponsing defense to cover him as well and opened things up for DJO.
[/b]
84 - You do realize Buzz recruits guys that can pass, dribble and shoot, correct? Every player on the team has a green light to shot - with 10 toes toward the basket. The philosophy is don't take a good shot, take a great shot - which this team may have been doing a little too much of (and that is what has changed - there is less hesitation to pull the trigger on shots since the team meeting after the Seton Hall game.). Crowder was never given the "green light" to shoot - he as are the other players, are always able to shoot what they deem a good shot.
Another thing - DJO will always be a high priority focus from any coach..regardless how anyone else on the team is shooting the ball...he's not become less a priority to stop due to Crowder or Jimmy shooting better/more 3's...