MUScoop
MUScoop => Hangin' at the Al => Topic started by: tower912 on March 11, 2011, 07:43:39 PM
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Juco big, 7 ft project, hold and wait for a transfer?
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Wait for surprise in April
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6'9" big who eats nails for breakfast and collects rebounds like debts owed =wet dream and sticky sheets
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God's Gift or a very tall project with potential!
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Gotta be some kind of big. Enough with the guards and small forwards.
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6'9" big who eats nails for breakfast and collects rebounds like debts owed =wet dream and sticky sheets
6ft 9in and 240, not a thin kid. An intimidator with hands and someone to fear in the paint.
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another Gardner
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Now would be the time to sign a Mbao or an Evan Anderson. 7, red-shirt....
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Yeah a 6'9 or 6'10 big with good size and touch down low. Someone who is strong, physical but also well-conditioned and athletic enough to be a presence on D and a fearless rebounder. Asking for a lot? Yes, but one can dream.
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We should just start recruiting football players.
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We should just start recruiting football players.
Like Santrele Henderson?
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God's Gift or a very tall project with potential!
+1 ... God's Gift ... c.mon down!
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A good big man is probably a good idea. We always need depth inside and having someone developing.
I wouldn't be completely opposed to a JUCO point guard who can come off the bench and get the ball into the offense. If Junior were to go down with injury or foul trouble, we would be relying either on Vander Blue or DJO to play out of their positions at the point or we'd have the ball in a freshman's hands in D Wilson.
If Cadougan and Wilson are going to be our two PGs, I hope one of the "switchable" wing guys can handle the ball.
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If Cadougan and Wilson are going to be our two PGs, I hope one of the "switchable" wing guys can handle the ball.
Dodds interviewed Aki Collins and he said we could see Jamil Wilson (6'7") play some point next year. Collins said he's that good a ball handler. Collins said he can play all five positions.
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It's probably going to be a guy like Ox. Someone off the radar...150-180 type guy who has "emerged" over the course of this year.
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Dodds interviewed Aki Collins and he said we could see Jamil Wilson (6'7") play some point next year. Collins said he's that good a ball handler. Collins said he can play all five positions.
That would be amazing. Juan Anderson looks like he has a decent handle on the ball and great court vision based off of his YouTube videos (though that can be unreliable).
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I want another point. We also only have one more schollie for 2012, a year with a lignite available bigs, including guys like Nolan and Stokes who we seem to have a shot with. I'd love Cezar Guerrero if he hasn't signed. We should really have 3 points on the roster. As much as I want another big, I can wait until 2012 considering the play of Ox
and Otule, as well as Wilson and Anderson, both 6'7" plus.
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Definitly need the big. Let it be a project with the emergence of Otule and Gardner setting up nicely for 2 years anyways. Wilson and Crowder will hold it down as well next year.
We got Junior showing hes ready to play point. D wilson will be able to help. Vander and DJO know where they are playing. Still have JJ for 3 years and Juan is coming in with the ability to handle the ball and im sure Mayo can handle it a bit if hes the scorer they say he is.
Don't need a guard at all.
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I want another point.
+1 After the debacle the year Diener got hurt, a team can always use a few PGs.
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I think that Blue gets some run at the point next year. Junior, Blue, a pair of Wilsons....give me the 7 ft project to redshirt.
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I think that Blue gets some run at the point next year. Junior, Blue, a pair of Wilsons....give me the 7 ft project to redshirt.
We need a Rip Van Winkle of Wisconsin Basketball.
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Chris Grimm
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Guerrero would indeed be a nice pickup, but not the priority in my opinion.
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+1 After the debacle the year Diener got hurt, a team can always use a few PGs.
For me, it's quantity and quality. If Wilson doesn't pan out, we'll have one 2012 schollie to find a freshman starter with our only 2012 scholarship to replace Cadougan. Which means we need quantity. And next year, we're in on multiple 5 and 4 star bigs.
Our two scholarships for 2011 and 2012 seem likely to go for a point and a big. As much as another big would be nice, our history shows that if we just sign a project, we're more likely to end up with a Liam McMorrow or Yous Mbao than we are a Davante Gardner. Get a point, give us two junior ballhandlers when Caddy leaves, and give us a shot at the much higher rated 2012 bigs.
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Dodds interviewed Aki Collins and he said we could see Jamil Wilson (6'7") play some point next year. Collins said he's that good a ball handler. Collins said he can play all five positions.
I have been telling you guys he is a more of a point guard than an inside player.
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With only two scholarships left for the next two years unless a player who can play
right now I would hold off. Buzz barely plays 9 deep, 12 deep is enough and you have
Singleton as a walk on. The following year you will need a forward to step in for Crowder.
Might as well try hard for a Top 50 recruit next year. Even if you do not get that player,
you have 10 coming back with Jamil Ferguson being eleven. Hold off for quality. Mayo can
step in for DJO, have Wilson, Otule, Vander, Juan, Junior.
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I really believe that the last slot will go to a 2 years JUCO. As it stands right now, we have only 5 upperclassmen on the team next year. That makes us very young. Part of what I'd be looking for is a young man with a fantastic work ethic, possibly a PG or a rebounder, that can provide some additional leadership to the team. Let's not underestimate the role that Jae filled this year, both on and off the court.
I'd also love to see coach offer Joe a job. Close enough in age to the players to relate; man enough to demand the straight and narrow.
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It was great news that Mayo is coming. It's fun to follow the recruiting news. I hope we sign an athletic 6'10" big guy who can dominate underneath.
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I think that Blue gets some run at the point next year. Junior, Blue, a pair of Wilsons....give me the 7 ft project to redshirt.
Umm, Blue will not be running the point next year.
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Definitely need a big, Center or PF. If none available, then bank and go for one for 2012.
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Definitely need a big, Center or PF. If none available, then bank and go for one for 2012.
banking scholarships = bad idea; I thought we all agreed on that one already.
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banking scholarships = bad idea; I thought we all agreed on that one already.
+1
Not to hijack this thread ... but I thought we showed numerous times that college basketball has an epidemic of transfers. NEVER bank a schollie as their will be a transfer and another one available.
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I see ALOT of clamoring for another PG with the last scholarship. What everyone is forgetting here is that we still have Dave Singlton in the waiting......someone who I believe Matthews said was the biggest surprise player at last summer's ProAm.
That said, I think Buzz's priority is at the 4/5 position at this time.
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I see ALOT of clamoring for another PG with the last scholarship. What everyone is forgetting here is that we still have Dave Singlton in the waiting......someone who I believe Matthews said was the biggest surprise player at last summer's ProAm.
That said, I think Buzz's priority is at the 4/5 position at this time.
Meaning we have 3 "true" PG's on the roster next year. Here's the breakdown:
PG - Cadougann, D. Wilson, Dave Singleton
SG - DJO, Vander, Mayo
SF/PF - Crowder, Jamil Wilson, EWilliams, Jamail Jones, Juan Anderson
C - Otule, Gardner
We really don't have a "true" PF, so between the 4/5 we've only got 3 or 4 guys that can play there....meaning we're an injury away from being reeal thin there. In contrast, we've got 3 "true" PG's with the likes of Juan, Vander, Mayo, or Jamil ready to run the point in emergency situations. That said, I think it's pretty clear where we've got depth and where we could use some help. I'm hoping for a legit PF that can defend/defend.....something of a role player considering we've got plenty of guys that can score the basketball.
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"I'm hoping for a legit PF that can defend/defend"
I meant rebound/defend
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+1 After the debacle the year Diener got hurt, a team can always use a few PGs.
That team actually started the season with a few point guards on the roster.
One, Brandon Bell, transferred at midseason. Another, Niv Berkowitz, couldn't play.
What happened next definitely was a debacle, but I'm not sure much could be done about it. It was a bad combination of recruiting mistakes and injury. I'm not sure we need to, or should, load up with several point guards on the roster every year, at the expense of other needs, because of a flukish chain of events six years ago.
As I wrote in the Mayo thread, I think it's a safe bet that Buzz and staff have been following the progress of Derrick Wilson and have some idea whether he'll be ready to contribute next season. If they think he is, their probably comforable heading into the year with a Cadougan/Wilson combo taking the majority of the minutes and maybe Vander or Singleton filling in in a pinch.
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"I'm hoping for a legit PF that can defend/defend"
I meant rebound/defend
I was satisfied how you had it the first time
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I see ALOT of clamoring for another PG with the last scholarship. What everyone is forgetting here is that we still have Dave Singlton in the waiting......someone who I believe Matthews said was the biggest surprise player at last summer's ProAm.
That said, I think Buzz's priority is at the 4/5 position at this time.
If Cadougan goes down, are you really confident in giving 15-20 minutes per game at the point to a walk-on who has never played anything remotely close to this level?
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If Cadougan goes down, are you really confident in giving 15-20 minutes per game at the point to a walk-on who has never played anything remotely close to this level?
No, but you could play that scenario at a lot of positions.
If Chris Otule goes down (as he has a history of doing) are you really comfortable playing Jae Crowder or Erik Williams at the five for 15-20 minutes per game next year?
If Jae Crowder goes down, are you really comfortable with Erik Williams and Jamil Wilson matching up 40 mpg with Big East fours?
Unfortunately, scholarship limits (not to mention the reality of transfers and players just not developing as hoped) don't allow a team to go four deep at every position.
Yeah, if Cadougan were to go down MU could be in big trouble next year. But they'd be in just as much trouble, arguably more trouble, if Otule or Crowder were to go down.
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I look at history. I look at what happened to Marquette in '09 when James went down. We collapsed, went from a likely 2 or 3 seed to a 6 based on 4 straight losses. Then you look at '10 and we had Hayward at the 5. If Otule goes down, we have Gardner, so I don't mind giving the extra minutes to guys who, while not Hayward, are at least in that mold and have some experience doing it. If Crowder goes down, we may not have a natural 4, but I am more confident in Wilson and Williams ability to replace than I am in Derrick Wilson's ability alone to replace Cadougan, and I feel without a doubt that the point is far more important to Marquette's success than the 5 is, and our results the past three seasons have clearly proven that.
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At least wait until after the coaching carousel and see who might be transferring
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I look at history. I look at what happened to Marquette in '09 when James went down. We collapsed, went from a likely 2 or 3 seed to a 6 based on 4 straight losses. Then you look at '10 and we had Hayward at the 5. If Otule goes down, we have Gardner, so I don't mind giving the extra minutes to guys who, while not Hayward, are at least in that mold and have some experience doing it. If Crowder goes down, we may not have a natural 4, but I am more confident in Wilson and Williams ability to replace than I am in Derrick Wilson's ability alone to replace Cadougan, and I feel without a doubt that the point is far more important to Marquette's success than the 5 is, and our results the past three seasons have clearly proven that.
It may be a little too convenient to blame MU's late season struggles in 2009 entirely on DJ's injury. It no doubt had a major impact, but MU very well may have lost those games with DJ. That stretch includes games vs #2 UConn, at #6 Louisville, at #3 Pitt, home against a hot Syracuse team and a neutral court loss to a #10 Nova team that went to the Final Four. Also, it's worth noting that the loss to Syracuse was in OT and to Nova was on the final play of the game.
What have you seen from Gardner so far that makes you believe he can play consistent minutes at the five for an entire season? I love what he brings us, but right now he's good for 15 minutes per game. Maybe next year he'll be ready for 20. How effective is he going to be if he has to play 10-15 minutes more per game?
And please don't compare Erik and Jae to Lazar. Hayward was a special player who was strong, savvy and athletic enough to at least not get killed by the bigs in the Big East. Jae's not that guy. Neither is Erik.
And, as has been said before, if Cadougan goes down, Derrick Wilson won't be the only guy on the roster who can bring the ball up court.
What makes you think that a PG prospect good enough to play major minutes as a frosh would even want to sign with a school that already has a PG commitment in his class?
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I have no qualms about Buzz getting a JUCO with the last schollie.....he has more than earned everyone's trust in that regard. A 3:1 ratio of 4-year and JUCO isn't a bad thing.
If he gets a 4 year player, at this point its going to be a person who won't contribute significantly even if CAddy goes down. Buzz has a very short leash on freshmen. If the guy is going to ride pine anyway, then get a big guy and get a pipeline going. He will be ready to go by the time Otule graduates. Average point guards are a dime a dozen and I think Vander can more than fill i next year if an injury occurs. If Vander holds dreams of something beyond MU, then he will need point experience anyway.
If a Wilson-like transfer becomes available....then get that person. Will contribute more in practice during the redshirt year, than a 4-year player gotten that MU would most likely come up with.
You can also bank it so we have three schollies next year. But that should be the last option and only used if nothing is available.
Looking at our roster, it is more balanced than it has been in quite some time with regard to position and classes. With regard to our last schollie, MU right now has a very high-quality problem.
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I look at history. I look at what happened to Marquette in '09 when James went down. We collapsed, went from a likely 2 or 3 seed to a 6 based on 4 straight losses. Then you look at '10 and we had Hayward at the 5. If Otule goes down, we have Gardner, so I don't mind giving the extra minutes to guys who, while not Hayward, are at least in that mold and have some experience doing it. If Crowder goes down, we may not have a natural 4, but I am more confident in Wilson and Williams ability to replace than I am in Derrick Wilson's ability alone to replace Cadougan, and I feel without a doubt that the point is far more important to Marquette's success than the 5 is, and our results the past three seasons have clearly proven that.
Mr Brewcity77 (Gambini)
That is a lucid, intelligent, well-thought out objection. Overruled. We want a PF
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It may be a little too convenient to blame MU's late season struggles in 2009 entirely on DJ's injury. It no doubt had a major impact, but MU very well may have lost those games with DJ. That stretch includes games vs #2 UConn, at #6 Louisville, at #3 Pitt, home against a hot Syracuse team and a neutral court loss to a #10 Nova team that went to the Final Four. Also, it's worth noting that the loss to Syracuse was in OT and to Nova was on the final play of the game.
Exactly. We lost to Syracuse in overtime and 'Nova on the final play. We also lost to Louisville by 4 points. Put James in for us instead of Acker, who at that point wasn't ready to be forced into that role, and I think we win all three of those games.
What have you seen from Gardner so far that makes you believe he can play consistent minutes at the five for an entire season? I love what he brings us, but right now he's good for 15 minutes per game. Maybe next year he'll be ready for 20. How effective is he going to be if he has to play 10-15 minutes more per game?
And please don't compare Erik and Jae to Lazar. Hayward was a special player who was strong, savvy and athletic enough to at least not get killed by the bigs in the Big East. Jae's not that guy. Neither is Erik.
I expect about 20 minutes per game. In the past 4 games, since DG started to come on, Jae has still been playing 5-10 minutes per game at the 5. Another year of seasoning and I'd feel okay with giving him 10-15 if it was absolutely necessary. That leaves about 5-10 minutes to fill in with other players like Williams or Wilson. And while Crowder isn't at the same level Lazar was at, he's that type of player. He's the kind of guy who's willing to step out and shoot, grind down low, and will do his best to defend the post when it's needed. No, he doesn't do it as well as Lazar did, but I feel a lot better about a senior with experience in Big East play taking over that role for 10-15 minutes per night than I do putting in a freshman with no D1 experience at the point, the most important position on the team.
And no, Erik's not there. Never even implied that he was. My hope is that next year he can play a role similar to Fulce, hitting the 12-15 foot jumper, rebounding, and giving some energy off the bench.
And, as has been said before, if Cadougan goes down, Derrick Wilson won't be the only guy on the roster who can bring the ball up court.
Putting faith in Singleton without seeing him play at this level makes no sense. Blue plays much more like a 2 than he does a 1, and we have seen how well that conversion works with Buycks this year. And quite simply, Jamil Wilson may be able to play the 1-5, but he can't do it simultaneously. And barring a superfreak like Evan Turner, you can't expect a 6'7" guy to reliably play the point forward position.
I just don't see why we have such a pressing need for a 2-star or 3-star big next year. Otule and Gardner have plenty of eligibility, and even if we only had one of them, we'd be better off at the 5 than we've been since Robert Jackson was here. And if we did add a guy at that level, will we even want him to get that much time? Were we ready to give Mbao 10-15 minutes a game? How about McMorrow? Barring the incredibly talented bigs, they usually take a bit longer to mature. We don't have any of those guys on the radar for 2011, so it just makes more sense to look at a point guard who may be able to give us 10-15 minutes in a pinch. Meanwhile, we have numerous bigs that are of the incredibly talented variety for the 2012 class. Add a Jarnell Stokes, Shaquille Cleare, or Phillip Nolan in 2012, give them a year to apprentice on the bench behind Otule and Gardner, then let them step into a major role in their sophomore year alongside an experienced senior center in Gardner. And at the same time, we'd then have two junior point guards to go along with Blue and Mayo in the backcourt.
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Putting faith in Singleton without seeing him play at this level makes no sense.
That could be said of any high school or JC recruit. Especially a PG that is available this time of year. Buzz has the benefit that we do not. He has seen Singleton play in practice and against D1 level competition. He has a feel for if he can contribute or not. He may be comfortable enough with him to get some minutes next year that a PG is not a priority.
My preference is to wait until the coaching carousel ends and see if there are any players who want out - ala Tyshawn Taylor.
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Putting faith in Singleton without seeing him play at this level makes no sense.
And yet that's exactly what you're advocating MU do with a high school kid, whose only experience is on a level even lower than Singleton's. Keep in mind, Singleton would have had a full year of practice with this team under his belt, which is far more experience at this level than any recruit.
I just don't see why we have such a pressing need for a 2-star or 3-star big next year. Otule and Gardner have plenty of eligibility, and even if we only had one of them, we'd be better off at the 5 than we've been since Robert Jackson was here. ]
Who's saying there's a pressing need at the five? I'm suggesting that MU not limit itself to recruiting for one position - which seems to be your argument - when there are needs elsewhere. I'd much prefer a four or five who may be able to contribute next year than a two-star point guard out of high school who will be tucked away in a glass case reading "Break only in case of emergency."
As I've said earlier (in this thread or the Mayo one, can't remember), if the best player out there is a point guard, take him. But don't pass on a more talented four or five - or a four or five with more upside - because you're quaking in your boots over some armageddon situation like 2005.
And at the same time, we'd then have two junior point guards to go along with Blue and Mayo in the backcourt.
I think you may be kidding yourself if you think two quality point guards in the same class are likely to stick around together for 3+ years. One of them is going to see that the other is the clear starter and is a good bet to transfer out for an opportunity to play more minutes.
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I think our next two schollies need to go for a big and a point, barring outgoing transfers that we can't predict. We have plenty of bigs that are considering us for 2012, but I haven't seen any top points even interested. That's why I say go point now. The bigs will be there next year. If we strike out on all of them, we can still look at a prospect and he'll have a full year before he needs to contribute. And if we can't ink someone like Cezar Guerrero, look to a JUCO, maybe TJ Taylor if he's still willing to follow Buzz to Milwaukee.
For me it's just numbers. We have multiple high-major bigs on the radar for 2012. I'd rather have that option left open than hoping for a point when we don't see to have any top 50 types interested at the moment.
EDIT: At the end of the day, I think this is probably one of those "agree to disagree" situations. Not that either is necessarily right or wrong, but I'm guessing we're both pretty affirmed to our positions and won't have much luck convincing each other, despite respecting the opposing opinions :)
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We need a FAISAL ABRAHAM...a NEW Sheriff in Milwaukee!
SOLID 6'7"/6'8"/6'9" defensive stopper, window cleaner, box-out specialist...
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We need a FAISAL ABRAHAM...a NEW Sheriff in Milwaukee!
SOLID 6'7"/6'8"/6'9" defensive stopper, window cleaner, box-out specialist...
And FT shooting machine.
Faisal was God awful at the line. I still remember when MU beat Iowa State when they were 5 in the Country back in the day. Faisal was so bad that Iowa State was deliberately fouling him every time before he had the ball, in the hopes of catching up. Only other guy that I remember that was so bad at the line was Abel Joseph.
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And FT shooting machine.
Faisal was God awful at the line. I still remember when MU beat Iowa State when they were 5 in the Country back in the day. Faisal was so bad that Iowa State was deliberately fouling him every time before he had the ball, in the hopes of catching up. Only other guy that I remember that was so bad at the line was Abel Joseph.
Maybe Jon Harris?
Career 39.6 percent from the line.