What an abysmal joke! Terrible performance and terrible year. 11th place in conference out of 16 teams! Bad week for Buzz--losing both games down the stretch, finishing 11th, losing out on Tokoto.
NIT bound. Clue less game plan.
Oh well, there is always next year--shut it down for this year, because nobady cares about NIT.
What a dismal year--time to be asking questions and getting some answers. Right now there are way too many questions, that remain with unsatisfactory answers.
Sorry Sportsfans, In Buzz we trust. I am so pissed at this season. But hey, there is always next year. As Scarlett said many times, I'll think about that tomorrow.
We were 9-9 in a year when every predicted it. Frustrating? Yes. It's not like we were #2 in the country and fell to dogcrap (MSU). Everyone should take a breath and frickin relax. This program isn't going down the crapper in a matter of three weeks for God's sake.
I'm going to be sick
Quote from: Niv Berkowitz on March 05, 2011, 07:18:17 PM
This program isn't going down the crapper in a matter of three weeks for God's sake.
Nope, it's happening slowly and painfully.
If we win the first round matchup we are in
We certainly don't look like we "want it" at times. Frustrating. Can't imagine a double digit loss where we were blown out the entire game to a losing Big East team is going to get the NCAA committee excited, but then again they don't look at that stuff at that micro a level.
Now MU plays either Providence or South Florida. If it's USF, I wouldn't be surprised if we lost. If it's PC, we should get a win but what exactly does it do for us? We likely would need two BET wins for a LOCK. Doesn't mean we don't still get in, but we've pissed away our opportunities enough that we put our future in the hands of the committee and that's a dangerous thing to do
Typical Buzz blew it post. Once again, basketball is played by the players! A seldom used center went off, chill out.
Please tell me what Buzz could have done differently? Get Otule off of Ayuda, because he was too slow. He did, we saw Williams come in. Great switches at half time to make it something of a game. Why do so many of this board hate Buzz so much? Everything is his fault. Can Buzz make Crowder not play terrible, the guy lost his legs, what can Buzz do about it. Players did terrible today, game was terrible, I think this was one of the better coached game. He made every switch I would have, used time outs, made halftime adjustments, he just couldn't get the PLAYERS to play.
Losing out on Tokoyto? We were never really in on Tokoto.. We got Anderson who plays the same position, as well as Jones. Tough sell.
Everyone hope we win the 1st game in the BE tournament and be praying real hard we get in the NCAA tournament. But then again after seeing tonight's performance, what is the point.
Quote from: willie warrior on March 05, 2011, 07:16:05 PM
Oh well, there is always next year--shut it down for this year, because nobady cares about NIT.
Whew, as long as it means we don't have to read any more of your overly negative posts, I'm all for you "shutting it down"!
"there is always next year"
so what gets you excited about next year?
- DJO disappearing for large parts of games / not wanting to take a shot?
- Crowder's second half of the season swoon?
- Vander's inability to make a jump shot - really a single one int he past 10 or so games?
- Serious questions at PG?
- Losing 1 recruit pre-season and one mid-season the past 2 years?
- Buzz's horrible defensive teams as they get worse each year?
As unbelievable as it sounds, are best hope for next year is our big men - Otule and Gardner...
future does not look bright...
Quote from: Warrior1 on March 05, 2011, 07:21:28 PM
Typical Buzz blew it post. Once again, basketball is played by the players! A seldom used center went off, chill out.
OK, I didn't get to actually watch the game, but are you serious about this? If this is how we lost, that is a HUGE problem.
Quote from: madtownwarrior on March 05, 2011, 07:34:36 PM
"there is always next year"
so what gets you excited about next year?
- DJO disappearing for large parts of games / not wanting to take a shot?
- Crowder's second half of the season swoon?
- Vander's inability to make a jump shot - really a single one int he past 10 or so games?
- Serious questions at PG?
- Losing 1 recruit pre-season and one mid-season the past 2 years?
- Buzz's horrible defensive teams as they get worse each year?
As unbelievable as it sounds, are best hope for next year is our big men - Otule and Gardner...
future does not look bright...
You conveniently left Jamil Wilson and Juan Anderson off of your post. I think Vander will improve dramatically this summer, and I have never seen D. Wilson play.
I don't have much confidence in us making the tournament considering we're playing our worst basketball of the season. All that needs to happen for us to be out of the tournament is for some teams in the same boat as us, like Virginia Tech, Mississippi St. and even Michigan St., to do better than us in their conference tournaments. As was posted earlier, lackluster effort and double-digit losses isn't going to get the committee excited.
Sounds like some people had some exceedingly high expectations for this team that got a little stoked by the early good play and are now kicking them when they're down. Unfortunately they're playing their worst BB of the year now, so we'll see Tuesday what kind of coaching chops Buzz has.
Also, I think the future is bright (I don't mean next week!).
Quote from: KC2016 on March 05, 2011, 07:47:38 PM
Sounds like some people had some exceedingly high expectations for this team that got a little stoked by the early good play and are now kicking them when they're down. Unfortunately they're playing their worst BB of the year now, so we'll see Tuesday what kind of coaching chops Buzz has.
Also, I think the future is bright (I don't mean next week!).
we just lost at home fairly easily to Cincy and were blown out on the road to SHU.
People should expect we play better this time of the year and not get used to losing.
Really expect freshman to have an impact? I don't (see past 3 years)...
Maybe Wilson off sets the loss of Butler...
Maybe another 9 - 9 season next year...
Quote from: 1990Warrior on March 05, 2011, 07:40:34 PM
You conveniently left Jamil Wilson and Juan Anderson off of your post. I think Vander will improve dramatically this summer, and I have never seen D. Wilson play.
Tough time of the year for the team to have lost all of its confidence.
Willie I just booked my nit trip on your recommendation. Will you cover my expenses if Marquette goes to other tourney?
In Willie I trust!
Quote from: KC2016 on March 05, 2011, 07:47:38 PM
Sounds like some people had some exceedingly high expectations for this team that got a little stoked by the early good play and are now kicking them when they're down. Unfortunately they're playing their worst BB of the year now, so we'll see Tuesday what kind of coaching chops Buzz has.
Also, I think the future is bright (I don't mean next week!).
Too many people have exceedingly low expectations. No one said we had to go undefeated. 10-8 is not too much to ask. We're better than all the "you have too high expectations" people want to admit. It's not like it would have been our first 10 win season - we've done it every year until now.
Quote from: Rollout-the-Barrel on March 05, 2011, 07:58:16 PM
Willie I just booked my nit trip on your recommendation. Will you cover my expenses if Marquette goes to other tourney?
In Willie I trust!
How much did you pay for the trip to Milwaukee?
Didn't we finish tied for 9th?
Quote from: TJ on March 05, 2011, 08:00:36 PM
Too many people have exceedingly low expectations. No one said we had to go undefeated. 10-8 is not too much to ask. We're better than all the "you have too high expectations" people want to admit. It's not like it would have been our first 10 win season - we've done it every year until now.
I agree. I know you were not referring to me, but I had extremely high expectations. Sorry if it seemed I was justifying this, I wasn't. I was just saying it isn't necessarily Buzz that is the problem, absolutely not in this game.
This loss hurts for sure, but again, here we have a thread largely made up of knee jerk, sky is falling posters. Should Jay Wright and Jim Calhoun be fired or on the hot seat for guiding their teams to a 9-9 record in the Big East? Hell those coaches have had 10 and 25+ years at their schools to build their program..Buzz is in year 3...
Did Seton Hall not just CRUSH a very hot St. John's team? Did Cincy not just CRUSH Georgetown today? Life in the Big East.
Quote from: Ners on March 05, 2011, 08:05:56 PM
This loss hurts for sure, but again, here we have a thread largely made up of knee jerk, sky is falling posters. Should Jay Wright and Jim Calhoun be fired or on the hot seat for guiding their teams to a 9-9 record in the Big East? Hell those coaches have had 10 and 25+ years at their schools to build their program..Buzz is in year 3...
Did Seton Hall not just CRUSH a very hot St. John's team? Did Cincy not just CRUSH Georgetown today? Life in the Big East.
I'm sure as Buzz proves he can build and maintain a program like Wright and Calhoun there won't be as many questions during .500 years.
I think knee jerk calls for him to leave are not right but questions about Buzz's coaching are not irrational at this point. NEXT YEAR IS HUGE FOR HIM.
Quote from: Ners on March 05, 2011, 08:05:56 PM
This loss hurts for sure, but again, here we have a thread largely made up of knee jerk, sky is falling posters. Should Jay Wright and Jim Calhoun be fired or on the hot seat for guiding their teams to a 9-9 record in the Big East? Hell those coaches have had 10 and 25+ years at their schools to build their program..Buzz is in year 3...
Did Seton Hall not just CRUSH a very hot St. John's team? Did Cincy not just CRUSH Georgetown today? Life in the Big East.
It's not just losing today. MU gave a lifeless effort on Senior night and gave another lifeless effort vs Seton Hall when a win would have guaranteed an NCAA appearance. The whole defense of Buzz relied on how hard MU plays night in and night out. Well, they gave subpar efforts in games that would have locked up a tourney bid. That's plenty of reason to be concerned.
Quote from: TJ on March 05, 2011, 08:01:22 PM
How much did you pay for the trip to Milwaukee?
More expensive than I expected. Gas prices keep going up!
Quote from: rocky_warrior on March 05, 2011, 07:29:16 PM
Whew, as long as it means we don't have to read any more of your overly negative posts, I'm all for you "shutting it down"!
Then do not read them.
BUMP!
(http://www.colinheatherly.com/images/Smile.jpg)
Quote from: willie warrior on March 05, 2011, 07:16:05 PM
What an abysmal joke! Terrible performance and terrible year. 11th place in conference out of 16 teams! Bad week for Buzz--losing both games down the stretch, finishing 11th, losing out on Tokoto.
NIT bound. Clue less game plan.
Oh well, there is always next year--shut it down for this year, because nobady cares about NIT.
I wonder if this is what Joe was referring to...
Quote
@Mu21
Joe Fulce
Shoutout to the fans who said nit....lol nit huh? Really?
Bump...thanks for being a great "fan" willie!
Quote from: muarmy81 on March 21, 2011, 11:04:43 AM
Bump...thanks for being a great "fan" willie!
Hahaha, +1
Quote from: MU B2002 on March 21, 2011, 11:00:27 AM
I wonder if this is what Joe was referring to...
I hope so.
Say it loud and proud willie - In Buzz We Trust: Sweet 16 and Counting
Time for you to eat some crow here
Quote from: muarmy81 on March 21, 2011, 11:04:43 AM
Bump...thanks for being a great "fan" willie!
He's not wrong in his analysis. Our regular season was average...we were one of the last 6 teams in. We're having a great tournament. Two separate seasons, two separate entities. Just think, a better regular season means you have a much better opportunity to advance in the NCAAs due to seeding.
I'm enjoying the tournament immensely, but we need to do better in the regular season and can't just be happy to barely get in each year. He's dead on right.
...and MU can't show FTs (19-of-23 vs. Syracuse). I guess people who live in their parents' basement lack Sun, social skills, knowledge, and reason.
*shoot*
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on March 21, 2011, 11:46:50 AM
He's not wrong in his analysis. Our regular season was average...we were one of the last 6 teams in. We're having a great tournament. Two separate seasons, two separate entities. Just think, a better regular season means you have a much better opportunity to advance in the NCAAs due to seeding.
I'm enjoying the tournament immensely, but we need to do better in the regular season and can't just be happy to barely get in each year. He's dead on right.
The words "Analysis" and Willie Warrior don't often appear in the same sentence.
I am very, very fired up over the last two games and confident for Friday. However, it sure would have been nice to be a 4 seed and be playing like this. It really is two seperate seasons and one was so-so and was is very good and still going.
Seed doesn't matter anymore...you beat the 3 seed and you become the 3 seed. We would be in the exact same spot as we are now if we entered the tourney as a 3 seed. (Although I admit the path to the Sweet 16 would be presumably easier if we started with a higher seed).
I enjoy seeing Buzz on the bench instead of being in the studio at halftime.
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on March 21, 2011, 11:46:50 AM
He's not wrong in his analysis. Our regular season was average...we were one of the last 6 teams in. We're having a great tournament. Two separate seasons, two separate entities. Just think, a better regular season means you have a much better opportunity to advance in the NCAAs due to seeding.
I'm enjoying the tournament immensely, but we need to do better in the regular season and can't just be happy to barely get in each year. He's dead on right.
Buzz took over in April 2008 and when the dust settled his roster for this year was as follows: class of 2011 - Joe Fulce. class of 2012 (reclassified to 2013 due to injury) - Chris Otule. class of 2013 - empty class of 2014 - empty. There were NO, ZERO, NADA programs in the Big East and maybe only one in the entire country (Indiana) that was faced with the kind of rebuilding we encountered for THIS YEAR. We could be a laughingstock last place Big Ten team like IU - instead we're a sweet 16 NCAA tournament team. Anyone who's not overjoyed with the job Buzz did putting this year's team together is a hater or a moron or both.
Quote from: BrewCity on March 21, 2011, 12:56:07 PM
Seed doesn't matter anymore...you beat the 3 seed and you become the 3 seed. We would be in the exact same spot as we are now if we entered the tourney as a 3 seed. (Although I admit the path to the Sweet 16 would be presumably easier if we started with a higher seed).
Thank you for pointing this out...try as some here now state the: "It is two seperate seasons," "if we played better in the regular season we'd have gotten a higher seed," etc. What a bunch of garbage. We had higher seeds every year with the Big 3 and last year's team..and we never advanced to a Sweet 16.
Ri-freakin-diculous..
Quote from: Goose on March 21, 2011, 12:47:08 PM
I am very, very fired up over the last two games and confident for Friday. However, it sure would have been nice to be a 4 seed and be playing like this. It really is two seperate seasons and one was so-so and was is very good and still going.
Actually, I like our chances as an 11 seed against UNC more than as a 4 seed against Ohio St.
Lenny-- I would say that the regular season was pretty much in line with most fans expectations. Granted Buzz did a great job of keeping the ship afloat and I credit the JUCO additions. I am far from a moron or a hater but the regular season did not have me overjoyed. Actually I was more frustrated this season because they showed glimpses of being really good several times but it was short lived.
Buzz did a nice job in regular season, that's it in my mind. Will add the way he has these guys focused right now is impressive. They have ice water in their veins and Buzz gets credit for that in my opinion.
Quote from: Lennys Tap on March 21, 2011, 01:05:27 PM
Buzz took over in April 2008 and when the dust settled his roster for this year was as follows: class of 2011 - Joe Fulce. class of 2012 (reclassified to 2013 due to injury) - Chris Otule. class of 2013 - empty class of 2014 - empty. There were NO, ZERO, NADA programs in the Big East and maybe only one in the entire country (Indiana) that was faced with the kind of rebuilding we encountered for THIS YEAR. We could be a laughingstock last place Big Ten team like IU - instead we're a sweet 16 NCAA tournament team. Anyone who's not overjoyed with the job Buzz did putting this year's team together is a hater or a moron or both.
Can I get a witness!
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on March 21, 2011, 11:46:50 AM
He's not wrong in his analysis. Our regular season was average...we were one of the last 6 teams in. We're having a great tournament. Two separate seasons, two separate entities. Just think, a better regular season means you have a much better opportunity to advance in the NCAAs due to seeding.
I'm enjoying the tournament immensely, but we need to do better in the regular season and can't just be happy to barely get in each year. He's dead on right.
Agree with what your saying, but I don't think seeding THIS YEAR means that much. Did'nt help Louisville, Pittsburgh, Notre Dame or Syracuse.
Quote from: Lennys Tap on March 21, 2011, 01:05:27 PM
Buzz took over in April 2008 and when the dust settled his roster for this year was as follows: class of 2011 - Joe Fulce. class of 2012 (reclassified to 2013 due to injury) - Chris Otule. class of 2013 - empty class of 2014 - empty. There were NO, ZERO, NADA programs in the Big East and maybe only one in the entire country (Indiana) that was faced with the kind of rebuilding we encountered for THIS YEAR. We could be a laughingstock last place Big Ten team like IU - instead we're a sweet 16 NCAA tournament team. Anyone who's not overjoyed with the job Buzz did putting this year's team together is a hater or a moron or both.
Actually there were a number of teams that had to build more than MU and IU THIS YEAR, but I'll let you get your emotions out of the way and chalk that up for your post...even though you said emotions shouldn't be an excuse for moronic statements. ;)
I am overjoyed for Buzz and MU...it was great watching us in this tournament.
Quote from: Goose on March 21, 2011, 01:11:52 PM
Lenny-- I would say that the regular season was pretty much in line with most fans expectations. Granted Buzz did a great job of keeping the ship afloat and I credit the JUCO additions. I am far from a moron or a hater but the regular season did not have me overjoyed. Actually I was more frustrated this season because they showed glimpses of being really good several times but it was short lived.
Buzz did a nice job in regular season, that's it in my mind. Will add the way he has these guys focused right now is impressive. They have ice water in their veins and Buzz gets credit for that in my opinion.
Goose - not saying that you have to be happy with everything that transpired during the season - there were difficult low points - Louisville, Seton Hall, etc. What I'm pointing out is that when Buzz took over in April 2008 the 2010-11 season looked like a disaster waiting to happen. That Buzz patched together a good enough team this year to both frustrate at times and eventually make the sweet 16 is to his credit. If you want to see what could have happened under very similar circumstances look at Indiana this year. It should give you and all MU fans some perspective.
Quote from: Lennys Tap on March 21, 2011, 01:05:27 PM
Buzz took over in April 2008 and when the dust settled his roster for this year was as follows: class of 2011 - Joe Fulce. class of 2012 (reclassified to 2013 due to injury) - Chris Otule. class of 2013 - empty class of 2014 - empty. There were NO, ZERO, NADA programs in the Big East and maybe only one in the entire country (Indiana) that was faced with the kind of rebuilding we encountered for THIS YEAR. We could be a laughingstock last place Big Ten team like IU - instead we're a sweet 16 NCAA tournament team. Anyone who's not overjoyed with the job Buzz did putting this year's team together is a hater or a moron or both.
Amen.
During the past two seasons, a frequent refrain from the Buzz doubters has been "let's see how he does with a team of his own players."
Well, we're seeing it.
Yeah, it was an up-and-down regular season filled with some tough-to-swallow losses. Is that really a surprise when 60 percent of the rotation has very limited, if any, D-1 experience? It seems the team has learned from those losses and is playing its best when it matters most. And that's a credit to the coaching staff.
Quote from: Pakuni on March 21, 2011, 01:26:18 PM
Amen.
During the past two seasons, a frequent refrain from the Buzz doubters has been "let's see how he does with a team of his own players."
Well, we're seeing it.
Yeah, it was an up-and-down regular season filled with some tough-too-swallow losses. Is that really a surprise when 60 percent of the rotation has very limited, if any, D-1 experience? It seems the team has learned from those losses and is playing its best when it matters most. And that's a credit to the coaching staff.
+10000000
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on March 21, 2011, 01:21:26 PM
Actually there were a number of teams that had to build more than MU and IU THIS YEAR, but I'll let you get your emotions out of the way and chalk that up for your post...even though you said emotions shouldn't be an excuse for moronic statements. ;)
I am overjoyed for Buzz and MU...it was great watching us in this tournament.
I'm talking about where IU and MU stood in respect to this year's season in April 2008 (when Buzz and TC were hired). Buzz had 1 guy in his soon to be sophmore class(Fulce) and one guy in his incoming freshman class (Otule) with the fall signing period long gone and the spring signing period upon him. TC had noone in his incoming sophmore class and only 3 in his freshman class (Pritchard, roth and Nick Williams). I'd love to hear about the teams that had less as of April 2008 for this year's team. Can't believe there were too many (if any) programs in worse shape at that moment.
Quote from: BrewCity on March 21, 2011, 12:56:07 PM
Seed doesn't matter anymore...you beat the 3 seed and you become the 3 seed. We would be in the exact same spot as we are now if we entered the tourney as a 3 seed. (Although I admit the path to the Sweet 16 would be presumably easier if we started with a higher seed).
I agree
Sure in general it would be nicer to finish 10-8 or 11-7 in the conference instead of 9-9, but just getting into the big dance is by far the most important thing. Once you're there, unless you get a really high seed, i don't think it matters much in today's college basketball whether you're a 5-6 seed or a 8-11 seed.
Parity is so deep today that very little separates a 5th-6th seed and a 10th-11th seed. Plus, had we won another game or two in the Big East, we may have flipped spots with Villanova as a 9 seed and been staring at facing a OSU or Kansas in the second round if we had won the first game.
We finished 11-7 last year and got a 6 seed, but i'll take this year over last season in a heartbeat.
Quote from: Lennys Tap on March 21, 2011, 01:05:27 PM
Buzz took over in April 2008 and when the dust settled his roster for this year was as follows: class of 2011 - Joe Fulce. class of 2012 (reclassified to 2013 due to injury) - Chris Otule. class of 2013 - empty class of 2014 - empty. There were NO, ZERO, NADA programs in the Big East and maybe only one in the entire country (Indiana) that was faced with the kind of rebuilding we encountered for THIS YEAR. We could be a laughingstock last place Big Ten team like IU - instead we're a sweet 16 NCAA tournament team. Anyone who's not overjoyed with the job Buzz did putting this year's team together is a hater or a moron or both.
When the dust settled after Buzz was hired, he saw three players depart from a roster that was oversubscribed by one. He had exactly two scholarships to fill--he gave one to Jimmy Butler, and one to Liam McMorrow.
On July 1 of 2008 (Buzz's 85th day of being head coach), 13 of 13 scholarships were filled--
4 in the class of 2009: Burke, McNeal, James & Matthews
3 in the class of 2010: Hayward, Cubillan, Acker
4 in the class of 2011: Butler, Fulce, Mbakwe, Hazel
2 in the class of 2012: McMorrow & Otule
Plus 1 verbal in the class of 2013: Williams
When Mbakwe left, Buzz had coached him for 139 days (plus 213 as an assistant). When Hazel left, Buzz had coached him for 371 days (plus 213 as an assistant). If you're going to suggest that 352 days is not enough time for Buzz and Trevor to get to know each other--and 584 not enough for Buzz and Pat to get to know each other--we'll just have to disagree on whether or not Buzz is at least partly responsible for their departure.
Second, I have to point out the irony of you suggesting that anyone who doubted Buzz's recruiting was a hater or moron--because it was 18 months ago that you yourself argued that anyone who expressed
optimism over Buzz's recruiting "
had an agenda"--which is I think your code for being a "hater and a moron."
You recall that I was the one who thought that Butler and DJO and Buycks would perform well--you were the one who thought they were legitimately 12th place players.
In fact, you might recall our back-and-forth comparing the 2004 team to 2010. I was the one who gave Buzz credit for recruiting a better team than Crean did in 2004--you claimed, oh, no, Buzz wasn't possible of recruiting to that level.
Guys (Lenny's, M84) - lets stay focused here. The point of bumping this thread was to get Willie Warrior to eat crow. Mission accomplished, any further recruiting debate in this thread will get deleted.