Just checked ESPN's rankings and list to see how we are doing; I know, I know, it is ESPN and they do not know what they are talking about(which is what some say).
Buzz needs to get going.
Top 25: 7 teams from BEast in it: St. Johns 2; Loservile 8; Syracuse 9; Pitt 14; Rutgers 15; Cinncy 22; Villanova 23; and West Va. and Georgetown are rated on the cusp. In addition, UCONN has one top 100 recruit and ND has one.
Don't see MU listed anywhere here, and don't see any of our recruits here.
Just askin', How are we doing in the recruiting wars?
Quote from: willie warrior on March 04, 2011, 11:14:55 AM
Just checked ESPN's rankings and list to see how we are doing; I know, I know, it is ESPN and they do not know what they are talking about(which is what some say).
Buzz needs to get going.
Top 25: 7 teams from BEast in it: St. Johns 2; Loservile 8; Syracuse 9; Pitt 14; Rutgers 15; Cinncy 22; Villanova 23; and West Va. and Georgetown are rated on the cusp. In addition, UCONN has one top 100 recruit and ND has one.
Don't see MU listed anywhere here, and don't see any of our recruits here.
Just askin', How are we doing in the recruiting wars?
Slightly misleading in that 16 players in the ESPN top 100 have been given a grade of 92, which is where ESPN also grades Juan Anderson. So while technically just outside the top 100, ESPN believes his ability is the same as better than 15 percent of the players in its top 100.
Derrick Wilson is graded 91, fwiw.
Further, MU had ranked classes for the '09 and '10 classes, so it's understandable that he may miss the beat one year. I think it would be harded pressed to find 10 schools that had 3 consecutively ranked recruiting classes. It's just extremely difficult.....even for the most competitive basketball schools out there.
Well, two thoughts...first, you have to take a longer term look at this.
Top 25 BE classes:
2009: #3 Villanova, #8 Uconn, #14 Marquette, #17 Louisville, #18 Pitt
2010: #5 Syracuse, #17 Marquette, #20 UConn
2011: #2 St. Johns, #9 Louisville, #10 Syracuse, #14 Pitt, #15 Rutgers, #22 Cincy, #23 Villanova
You'll notice, that in this 3 year span, no school has had a top #25 class every year. Much of that is related to the second thought...
The size of the class is a large part of whether/where it gets ranked. You'll notice a lot of the "ranked" classes this year are have 4+ recruits signed (9 for SJU). We only have 2, and while it's unlikely that we'll get in the top #25 with our last two scholarships, there's still a chance.
And if that happened, we'd be doing better at recruiting than any other BE school for the by having a top 25 class 3 years running.
So, I'd say we're are definitely keeping up with the J's :)
Quote from: OhioGoldenEagle on March 04, 2011, 11:38:41 AM
Further, MU had ranked classes for the '09 and '10 classes, so it's understandable that he may miss the beat one year. I think it would be harded pressed to find 10 schools that had 3 consecutively ranked recruiting classes. It's just extremely difficult.....even for the most competitive basketball schools out there.
The ranked classes we have had seem to be a little soft. Perhaps those ranking were a little overated.
Or perhaps players take time to develop. Witness Cadougan and Otule's progress.
How can we ask this with two open scholarships. Don't they have to be filled before we can have this discussion?
Here's how the 2011 class breaks down via RSCI (based on the summer ranking which will most likely change after the season is over):
St. John's
#33 Jakarr Sampson, 6'7", WF
#34 D'Angelo Harrison, 6'3", WG
#39 Norvel Pelle, 6'8", PF
#41 Maurice Harkless, 6'6", WF
#65 Amir Garrett, 6'5", WF
#70 Dominique Porter, 6'5", WF
Syracuse
#11 Rakeem Christmas, 6'8", C
#22 Michael Carter-Williams, 6'4", WG
#89 Trevor Cooney, 6'3", WG
Louisville
#21 Chane Behanan, 6'6", PF
#24 Wayne Blackshear, 6'5", WG
#59 Zach Price, 6'8", C
Villanova
#66 Tyrone Johnson, 6'3", PG
#78 Achraf Yacoubou, 6'4", WG
Rutgers
#57 Kadeem Jack, 6'8", PF
#71 Myles Mack, 5'10", PG
Georgetown
#62 Mikael Hopkins, 6'8", C
#69 Tyler Adams, 6'8", C
UConn
#58 Ryan Boatright, 5'10", PG
DePaul
#85 Shane Larkin, 5'11", PG
Marquette
#95 Juan Anderson, 6'5", WF-WG
Quote from: 79Warrior on March 04, 2011, 11:46:33 AM
The ranked classes we have had seem to be a little soft. Perhaps those ranking were a little overated.
1. We've already lost 2 top100(ish) players in Maymon and Smith
2. I would say too early to tell at this point
3. Overrated? Perhaps, but related to point #2, I would suggest looking at the other ranked classes and see how they're faring. Outside of those 1 and done players, I'm guessing a majority of the prospects still have yet to have a major impact.
Quote from: rocky_warrior on March 04, 2011, 11:44:50 AM
The size of the class is a large part of whether/where it gets ranked. You'll notice a lot of the "ranked" classes this year are have 4+ recruits signed (9 for SJU). We only have 2, and while it's unlikely that we'll get in the top #25 with our last two scholarships, there's still a chance.
Exactly. Plus factor in we have Jamil and Singleton eligible to play next year as well.
Good point ... If you think of next year's class as J. Wilson, J. Anderson, D. Wilson and Singleton with two to go I'll bet it gets a much better ranking.
I dont think we are keeping up with other schools. JP said Wisconsin was second. I wonder were MU was and why. A little disappointed.
How many recruits do we already have in hand that play the 2-3? Wilson, Ferguson, Anderson, Jones, Blue....
We've been rejected before and the program hasn't shut down. We've finished out of somebody's top 5 before, and still we suit up. The kid did nothing wrong and neither did Buzz (unless of course you lend credence to the chewing tobacco anecdote) Our recruiting is fine. Land Mayo and a project 7 ft'er and all is well.
Quote from: Earl Tatum on March 04, 2011, 02:23:59 PMI dont think we are keeping up with other schools. JP said Wisconsin was second. I wonder were MU was and why. A little disappointed.
When it comes to JP picking UNC, Wisconsin being second is kind of like saying you came in second to Secretariat at the Belmont Stakes. If you don't know, Secretariat won by 31 lengths with a time of 2:21 that still stands as a record today, 38 years later. In reality, there was only one horse in that race, and it was the same with JPT and UNC.
I think we're fine for 2011. We have Anderson and Wilson, and still have two schollies to offer. I'm pretty sure one will go to Mayo, who is sounding more and more like the most underrated recruit in the class, and the last one will probably either be used on a reserve point or a project big that will have time to grow behind Otule and Gardner.
Now that the classes are getting balanced, it will be harder to get into the top 25 rankings for recruiting. We were hurt this year by losing Smith when we did, because it put us behind the 8-ball in terms of filling the last scholarship. My guess is that Buzz was expecting to add either a prospect like Mayo or a JUCO with the last scholarship. Now he has to find two names instead of one. Next year we only have two vacancies coming up (barring a transfer) and have already filled one with a top-100 in Jamal Ferguson. If Buzz can add one more guy of the 10-15 top-100s that have us listed, that will make for a very nice class. I really think that right now it's all about balancing us out and moving forward. The balance is just about here. I'm saving my panic for another 2-3 years.
Quote from: Earl Tatum on March 04, 2011, 02:23:59 PM
I don't think we are keeping up with other schools. JP said Wisconsin was second. I wonder were MU was and why. A little disappointed.
I've heard this before and it rings true to me. The best solution is to recruit and then the student attends Marquette. The second best is to know early that the student isn't coming to Marquette. I don't know if/when this happened but it seems to me that Tokoto told Buzz a while ago. The diehard fans on this board held out hope but most had a sense that he was going to UNC. So, I think coming in second may be the worst option if there was time and money spent. Tokoto has certainly been at Marquette events but I don't think that it cost us much. Maybe those in the know can expound, but 2nd to 8th are all the same except for time and money spent.
Quote from: Earl Tatum on March 04, 2011, 02:23:59 PM
I dont think we are keeping up with other schools. JP said Wisconsin was second. I wonder were MU was and why. A little disappointed.
How many extra wins will that second-place finish get UW over JP's time in college?
There's first place and everyone else. Finishing second for a recruit is no better than finishing 22nd.
Norm... you listed Juan Anderson's height wrong. He mentioned that he has grown this year and is now 6'7".
Quote from: msbjim on March 04, 2011, 04:51:04 PMNorm... you listed Juan Anderson's height wrong. He mentioned that he has grown this year and is now 6'7".
And he was previously listed at 6'6" everywhere I saw. I also remember an article that said he could spring up as high as 6'9" before he gets here. Also remember hearing that Jamil Wilson hit a growth spurt. Seeing standing next to Crowder the other night, he certainly seems to have at least 2 inches on Jae.
Quote from: AnotherMU84 on March 04, 2011, 01:41:15 PM
Good point ... If you think of next year's class as J. Wilson, J. Anderson, D. Wilson and Singleton with two to go I'll bet it gets a much better ranking.
I put zero stock in guys that have never played a minute of college ball. I hope Wilson can contribute big time, because someone needs to replace Butler
As far recruiting classes, EWill had some nice expectations and he barely plays. JJ rides the pine. So, expectations and reality are completely different. Maymon and Smith spilt. I beleive we are not keeping pace with the upper half of the BE in recruiting.
This year, we started the year with 4 players with >100 minutes of D1 experience, Butler, Fulce, Buycks, and DJO. Next year, if there are no transfers, we will start the year with 8.. DJO, Cadougan, Blue, Singleton, Otule, Gardner, Crowder, Wilson. EWill will be close. That cannot be overestimated. I don't see the rest of the BEast moving away from us.
Quote from: tower912 on March 04, 2011, 08:06:01 PM
This year, we started the year with 4 players with >100 minutes of D1 experience, Butler, Fulce, Buycks, and DJO. Next year, if there are no transfers, we will start the year with 8.. DJO, Cadougan, Blue, Singleton, Otule, Gardner, Crowder, Wilson. EWill will be close. That cannot be overestimated. I don't see the rest of the BEast moving away from us.
Who replaces Jimmy's points? Not much offense in that lineup. DJO and Crowder are the only legit scorers in the bunch. Wilson averaged what, a few points a game as a freshman with the Ducks.
Quote from: 79Warrior on March 04, 2011, 08:16:26 PMWho replaces Jimmy's points? Not much offense in that lineup. DJO and Crowder are the only legit scorers in the bunch. Wilson averaged what, a few points a game as a freshman with the Ducks.
Wilson averaged 4.7 ppg as a freshman backup. Butler averaged 5.6 ppg in his first year here. Hayward averaged 6.6 ppg as a freshman. There's no reason to think that with a year of development, Wilson can't put up something in the 12.8-14.7 ppg range that Hayward and Butler put up in their second years here.
Why do people keep listing Singleton? If he is that good, why isn't someone paying for him to play somewhere? Face it people, he was not highly recruited, didn't do much his one year at High Point, and is now paying his way. BE caliber players do not do this.
Sultan, I was listing only players with more than 100 minutes of D1 experience. Singleton falls into this category. I recognize that he does not have a great pedigree so I am not expecting miracles.
Quote from: The Sultan of South Wayne on March 04, 2011, 09:42:24 PM
Why do people keep listing Singleton? If he is that good, why isn't someone paying for him to play somewhere? Face it people, he was not highly recruited, didn't do much his one year at High Point, and is now paying his way. BE caliber players do not do this.
If you think Wes Matthews has any credibility when it comes to evaluating talent, of all the newcomers this past summer, Wes said Dave Singleton impressed him the most. He is not a traditional walk on. Singleton actually put up fairly decent numbers as a freshman at High Point, and played well against 3 or 4 Big East teams they played in their non-conference schedule.
Not saying the guy is going to be a star, but by no means would I be surprised if he is solidly in the mix for PT next year.
Quote from: brewcity77 on March 04, 2011, 09:41:01 PM
Wilson averaged 4.7 ppg as a freshman backup. Butler averaged 5.6 ppg in his first year here. Hayward averaged 6.6 ppg as a freshman. There's no reason to think that with a year of development, Wilson can't put up something in the 12.8-14.7 ppg range that Hayward and Butler put up in their second years here.
I'm hoping the year off helps Wilson. Saw him play in a several Pac Ten games and he looked every bit a freshman...lost. This was last year in a conference that was brutally bad. However, as Al said, "the best thing about Freshmen is they become sophomores."
Quote from: rocky_warrior on March 04, 2011, 11:44:50 AM
Well, two thoughts...first, you have to take a longer term look at this.
Top 25 BE classes:
2009: #3 Villanova, #8 Uconn, #14 Marquette, #17 Louisville, #18 Pitt
2010: #5 Syracuse, #17 Marquette, #20 UConn
2011: #2 St. Johns, #9 Louisville, #10 Syracuse, #14 Pitt, #15 Rutgers, #22 Cincy, #23 Villanova
You'll notice, that in this 3 year span, no school has had a top #25 class every year. Much of that is related to the second thought...
The size of the class is a large part of whether/where it gets ranked. You'll notice a lot of the "ranked" classes this year are have 4+ recruits signed (9 for SJU). We only have 2, and while it's unlikely that we'll get in the top #25 with our last two scholarships, there's still a chance.
And if that happened, we'd be doing better at recruiting than any other BE school for the by having a top 25 class 3 years running.
So, I'd say we're are definitely keeping up with the J's :)
Rocky: what source are you using for the ratings?--is it ESPN? According to RSCI Buzz's first 3 classes
2009 not in top 20
2010 18th
2011 unranked currently--not yet finished, but likely another unranked year.
My point is that I believe that we are trending downward in Conference standings, being leapfrogged by teams like St. John's, ND, Cinncy, etc., and not keeping up in recruiting. This is definitely cause for concern IMO. I do agree with you that it is best to take a longer term look, but sometimes that can really put the program in a world of hurt. I have already said, Buzz needs to show significant improvement in both Conference standing next year, and his 4th recruiting class. And given that we will only have 1 scholly available yet for 2012 (I think), will either of these happen. If not, then the jury should be in.
Quote from: willie warrior on March 05, 2011, 10:31:54 AM
Rocky: what source are you using for the ratings?--is it ESPN? According to RSCI Buzz's first 3 classes
Well, you started with ESPN, so I stuck with ESPN. Now you want to use RSCI. Ugh. Anyway, here's the ESPN link...
http://insider.espn.go.com/ncb/recruiting/classrankings?classyear=2009&action=login&appRedirect=http%3a%2f%2finsider.espn.go.com%2fncb%2frecruiting%2fclassrankings%3fclassyear%3d2009
It is true that there are at least 5-6 teams in the Big East that are recruiting far better than we are. It's pretty rare for Marquette to land a top rated recruit while other schools seem to get at least one every year. I also think this class is shaping up to be a down year for Marquette, and I'm not saying that because I expected us to land Tokoto.
However, the recruiting rankings generally unvervalue or completely disregard JUCO signings. I think DJO was not even rated by ESPN. Buzz has obviously done very well on that front.
Two words for next year - Jamil Wilson.
This will be his coming out party. I have heard lots of talk that he is perhaps the best player on the team right now. He is built like a more athletic version of JFB. I am very excited about next year.
Lastly, "Buzz better get going" come on. Two more spots left and lots of youth on the floor right now. The ceiling for these guys is very high. Add in Jamil, Juan, and Derrick Wilson, things are looking great already.
Personally, I would like to see one more true PG and God's gift for next year.
Quote from: rocky_warrior on March 05, 2011, 11:21:35 AM
Well, you started with ESPN, so I stuck with ESPN. Now you want to use RSCI. Ugh. Anyway, here's the ESPN link...
http://insider.espn.go.com/ncb/recruiting/classrankings?classyear=2009&action=login&appRedirect=http%3a%2f%2finsider.espn.go.com%2fncb%2frecruiting%2fclassrankings%3fclassyear%3d2009
No, I just went with RSCI because other people always reference that when some mention ESPN or Rivals, etc. I am sure that with all those ranking sources out there, one could pick and choose the one they want to make their argument. I still believe that Buzz is lacking in the recruiting department, and this year shows it. Hopefully he can land somebody good. I do not know much about Mayo, other than he is not highly ranked. We do not seem to be landing the horses to carry us to the upperechelon of BEast
Quote from: mikem91288 on March 05, 2011, 11:57:05 AM
Two words for next year - Jamil Wilson.
This will be his coming out party. I have heard lots of talk that he is perhaps the best player on the team right now. He is built like a more athletic version of JFB. I am very excited about next year.
Lastly, "Buzz better get going" come on. Two more spots left and lots of youth on the floor right now. The ceiling for these guys is very high. Add in Jamil, Juan, and Derrick Wilson, things are looking great already.
Personally, I would like to see one more true PG and God's gift for next year.
Yes, he better get going on recruiting because our conference record each year under Buzz has gone down from prior year--wrong trend. And this year's recruiting class will not be very good either from a ranking standpoint.
Quote from: willie warrior on March 05, 2011, 12:25:13 PM
No, I just went with RSCI because other people always reference that when some mention ESPN or Rivals, etc. I am sure that with all those ranking sources out there, one could pick and choose the one they want to make their argument. I still believe that Buzz is lacking in the recruiting department, and this year shows it. Hopefully he can land somebody good. I do not know much about Mayo, other than he is not highly ranked. We do not seem to be landing the horses to carry us to the upperechelon of BEast
In that event, perhaps you should modify your initial post to reflect that MU does have a top 100 commitment for next year (and top 75, according to Rivals).
Quote from: Pakuni on March 05, 2011, 12:38:37 PM
In that event, perhaps you should modify your initial post to reflect that MU does have a top 100 commitment for next year (and top 75, according to Rivals).
Any way you look at it, this year's recruiting class is thin.