I emailed my old man (MU class of 59) to let him know that he will have to watch the MU game at a bar and I got this response back:
"all set, but if they win they play North Carolina and with no big men, we are screwed. Why doesn't Crean follow McGuire's advice and get an aircraft carrier?"
I know we constantly harp on our big men, or lack of big men, but I think this tournament will show that you need consistent contributions from the 4/5 spots to make a run at the national championship. I know it's easier said than done, but when will we find an aircraft carrier to give us some presence inside?
Quote from: MilTown on March 13, 2007, 01:16:57 PM
I emailed my old man (MU class of 59) to let him know that he will have to watch the MU game at a bar and I got this response back:
"all set, but if they win they play North Carolina and with no big men, we are screwed. Why doesn't Crean follow McGuire's advice and get an aircraft carrier?"
I know we constantly harp on our big men, or lack of big men, but I think this tournament will show that you need consistent contributions from the 4/5 spots to make a run at the national championship. I know it's easier said than done, but when will we find an aircraft carrier to give us some presence inside?
We have one... and you guys beat us twice.
You don't need an aircraft carrier to go deep in the tourney... but you DO need Dom James to shoot better than he has been.
Yeah, but when it counted in the BE tourney, Gray played with intesity and aggressiveness and you guys won. We had no answer down low, offensively or defensively. If Graycomes to play, you guys beat us everytime.
Quote from: MilTown on March 13, 2007, 01:47:29 PM
Yeah, but when it counted in the BE tourney, Gray played with intesity and aggressiveness and you guys won. We had no answer down low, offensively or defensively. If Graycomes to play, you guys beat us everytime.
Gray killed us, but did very little in the Championship game against GTown. If If If....
Crean lost:
Chas McFarland (7') to Wake Forest
JaVale McGee (6' 11) to Univ. of Nevada
Mitchell Carter (6' 10) of Milwaukee to South Carolina
He's trying, he ain't getting. The problem I have is that while Barro isn't a traditional post player, he is open occasionally on the blocks. Yet it appears that DJ and every other wing player out there ignores him. Dump it in once in a while to loosen things up. While he's not over powering, he can score from 11' out. Even if it is the inside outside game. Same thing with Kinsella...I hate watching a 7' guy run around on the outside. Bang down low and then step out and hit a shot.
Slightly OT, but when Gray got in foul trouble the next game, he sat quite a bit and the game changed with him out.
Do coaches ever say "Ok, every trip down the court for the first 5 minutes, the play is: drive at player X and try to collect a PF. If we do it 7-8 times, we'll get at least 2 fouls and he'll have to sit."?? Am I crazy to think a focused effort could get a guy in foul trouble? Gray would be one of those guys you'd want to try that on, especially when he's beating you up.
True, Gray played like crap againts the Hoyas, and Pitt lost. If Gray plays well, Pitt plays well. That's the kind of impact player he can be.
I do think Crean is actively out there trying to recruit big men. It just hasn't worked out for a number of reasons. Maybe it's his system and the role the 4/5 positions play. Who knows. Maybe Crean thinks he can win with a different type of 4/5 player.
Not that simple Miltown Ooze operates at a tremendous deficit when fed with post ups. In the Pitt game for example.... The first time he was given the ball on a post up he almost traveled before throwing it directly to a Pitt player for a fast break. The next time he traveled. He has a very weak base, has poor hands, goes away from the basket with every move, does not shot fake at all, and is a poor passer. He can score for MU on the break or off the drive and dish. He has zero post up ability. Sad but true, even sadder he is the best we have. The list Crean has gone after is much longer than that above, no doubt he has gone after them any collection of 2 or 3 of our misses over the last 3-4 years and this team is infinitely better. Hopefully, the Mbakwe signing breaks the seal and we can continue to bring in BE quality big men, unfortunately it maybe too little too late for this fabulous group of guards.
Time for Chicos to chime in that it's a guards game and the only good bigs go to the pros...
5
4
3
2
1
It's too bad Mbakwe is only 6'7"...but hopefully he'll be as aggressive as Hayward has become lately. A mid-range game would be nice for us too. We only score on fast breaks, when we penetrate (which has obviously decreased w/o McNeal), and a few times out of the hella times we jack up threes.
Quote from: UPitt89 on March 13, 2007, 01:40:40 PM
Quote from: MilTown on March 13, 2007, 01:16:57 PM
I emailed my old man (MU class of 59) to let him know that he will have to watch the MU game at a bar and I got this response back:
"all set, but if they win they play North Carolina and with no big men, we are screwed. Why doesn't Crean follow McGuire's advice and get an aircraft carrier?"
I know we constantly harp on our big men, or lack of big men, but I think this tournament will show that you need consistent contributions from the 4/5 spots to make a run at the national championship. I know it's easier said than done, but when will we find an aircraft carrier to give us some presence inside?
We have one... and you guys beat us twice.
You don't need an aircraft carrier to go deep in the tourney... but you DO need Dom James to shoot better than he has been.
Careful UPitt89....you're liable to be tarred and feathered for such talk.
;D
And of course we would like a big man and your father is right. Problem is, you don't just go down to the corner store and pick one up. We have made offers to tons of big men (Stiemsma, Butch, Fazekas, Green, Horford, etc). If it was that easy to get a quality big man, then we would have one. Deane would have had one. O'Neill only got one in his tenure.
I agree that it's hard, but didn't O'Neill get McIlvaine, McCaskill, Key and Crawford? Maybe Chris wasn't a traditional "big man" but he's certainly better than anything we have now.
I know Crean is trying, but it's a glaring problem in our recruiting.
And Deane had Lovette, who before his problems was a helluva a big man.
Incidentally...I sense a lot of doom and gloom on this board.
I THINK WE'RE GOING TO WIN ON THURSDAY!!!
Yes, if you're going to the PF position then KO got more. I was talking true center. Of course if you go to PF position then Crean has added a few as well.
I'm optimistic about Thursday
Harrison...I was with Ben Howland part of yesterday as he is our spokesperson for our product. You would have heard him on Cowherd this morning and Jim Rome, etc.
Any rate, talked to him about guards and bigs....you would love his answer....but hey, he's only coaching UCLA and defending national runner-up. What does he know.
:o
McCaskill had high school stats just slightly better than Ooze's. If memory serves, we were the only high major to offer. Crawford was also a minor league pitcher. I am not sure he was even on schollie at the beginning. Mac and Key(s) were wisconsin boys. TC has offered several good big guys. They keep saying no. Sad but true.
Quote from: muhoops1 on March 13, 2007, 01:57:54 PM
Crean lost:
Chas McFarland (7') to Wake Forest
JaVale McGee (6' 11) to Univ. of Nevada
Mitchell Carter (6' 10) of Milwaukee to South Carolina
McFarland chose wake but I would not call him an aircraft carrier.
McGee I am not sure ever got an offer.
Crean cooled on Carter - he didn't lose him. Carter chose USC over UWGB & Texas A&M.
The losses that I do miss are Shawn Pruitt. Maybe (big maybe) to Kirk Walters.
I got to see Bryce Webster this year up at the Barn at the U and am happy to not see him in an MU uniform.
Quote from: tower912 on March 13, 2007, 03:06:10 PM
Mac and Key(s) were wisconsin boys.
Mac went to Racine St. Catherine and Key to Marquette. I think if there are more quality kids from the private schools TC will an edge over Ryan.
going deep into the posts.....
I think when al mentioned aircraft carriers he was referring to a players shoe size.
Chico's - I understand your point that you just don't go down to the corner store and recruit a big man. Big men are at a premium and all of the average and above average ones are being heavily recruited. Most big men are projects. Hibbert and Gray were projects that turned out to be successful. Crean gambled on Ooze and most would say that he has progressed immensely in his time at MU, but will never be an impact player. It's the luck of the draw. I know Crean is trying. After seeing the impact RJackson had on the team, he has to know that we need a big man. I guess I'm just frustrated because in my mind, this team with a big man could be a national championship contender.
What I dont get is when Crean recruits these big players....why not come here...with lack of decent 4/5 post players....they should get some decent playing time. Though im sure trend thought that too....(but thats a whole nother prob)
I know he's not a 7ft bruiser, but Mbakwe will be a difference maker in the paint. Don't know how long it will take him to adjust to the college game, but he'll get his chances next year. Saunders and Hazel are not quite the "projects' people think they are either. Both are playing very well on their respective teams.
I think within a few years the "we need a big" argument will be a thing of the past.
Quote from: muhoops1 on March 13, 2007, 01:57:54 PM
Crean lost:
Chas McFarland (7') to Wake Forest
JaVale McGee (6' 11) to Univ. of Nevada
Mitchell Carter (6' 10) of Milwaukee to South Carolina
He barely tried for Carter. MU lost interest in him before his junior year, he was not a priority recruit at all.
McGee isn't really a post player. He's almost 7'0 but he barely weighs 220, and he's more of a combo forward than a true post up. And again, MU stopped pursuing him more than he told them no.
McFarland is the only one listed that he went after hard and lost.
I think that a good big man in college basketball is like a great starting pitcher or a great QB.
Nobody really knows how to identify them until they are already good. Very tough to identify what it really takes to play the position.
You can try to take on "projects" and develop them, or you can try and land talented big men, but you might miss because EVERY team is after good big men. Its tough to land one... but you really only need to go 1 for 4 when getting big men.
If a coach can get 1 out of 4 big men he gets to be an all conference type player, he is doing pretty well. If he is getting 2 out of the other 3 to be productive, he is doing really well.
I think teams can win without true big man, and I think teams can even win a lot without a big man.
I think Crean has done all of the right things to land one, it's just tougher than most people know.
Like I said, it's like trying to identify a good QB or pitcher. Its VERY hard to do.
Quote from: bma725 on March 13, 2007, 04:56:22 PM
Quote from: muhoops1 on March 13, 2007, 01:57:54 PM
Crean lost:
Chas McFarland (7') to Wake Forest
JaVale McGee (6' 11) to Univ. of Nevada
Mitchell Carter (6' 10) of Milwaukee to South Carolina
He barely tried for Carter. MU lost interest in him before his junior year, he was not a priority recruit at all.
McGee isn't really a post player. He's almost 7'0 but he barely weighs 220, and he's more of a combo forward than a true post up. And again, MU stopped pursuing him more than he told them no.
McFarland is the only one listed that he went after hard and lost.
Of those three, I would agree. He did go very hard after Butch, Stiemsma and Fazekas as well.
again on this one. Crean will consistently have trouble recruiting bigs as long as his offensive scheme remains setting picks and rebounding at the 5 spot. Clearly TC is most comfortable with a perimeter run offense.
I see this season's FF as no different than the past. That is, each of the competing teams will have at least one very capable big man.
Quote from: 4everwarriors on March 13, 2007, 09:13:50 PM
again on this one. Crean will consistently have trouble recruiting bigs as long as his offensive scheme remains setting picks and rebounding at the 5 spot. Clearly TC is most comfortable with a perimeter run offense.
I see this season's FF as no different than the past. That is, each of the competing teams will have at least one very capable big man.
When Robert Jackson and Scott Merritt were here, were those guys out setting picks?
You adapt based on the personnel you have.
You all forgot that aircraft carrier that we lost in Butch. I would like another Fitz or Hayward over that guy.
Quote from: 4everwarriors on March 13, 2007, 09:13:50 PM
again on this one. Crean will consistently have trouble recruiting bigs as long as his offensive scheme remains setting picks and rebounding at the 5 spot. Clearly TC is most comfortable with a perimeter run offense.
I see this season's FF as no different than the past. That is, each of the competing teams will have at least one very capable big man.
I'm not sure if it has as much to do with the offense as I just think good bigs are really hard to find.
Everybody thought Butch or Webster were the answers to MU's prayers. Well, the jury is still out on Webster and if Butch isn't setting the world on fire.
Sometimes its better to be lucky than good. As a coach you have to get a little lucky and catch a kid who can develop into a good big.
If it was easy to recruit and/or develop big men, NBA teams wouldn't always be looking for them and NCAA teams would all have them.
The good news is that 1 good big can make a HUGE difference. You don't need a lot of depth at the position to have success. Next year, (if he keeps improving at his current rate) Ooze could be the big guy a lot of people have been calling for.