I'm still watching these games. Still love MU. But with this team, after 1 3/4 seasons of this, we are who we all think/know we are. A good team that can't win on the road against a team that's as good as us. We'll probably make the tourney and I'm happy, but really. At this point, it's not worth getting all bent out of shape w/every game, win or lose. We need a lot of luck to fall for us to go far.
MU has a good program, the inside guys actually made a presence today, but...not this year. Next year. And really, that was the realistic expectations going into this year. When it all plays out, I think we'll play right where everyone thought we would at the beginning of the season. 9th-11th place.
They are playing below their talent level. That is what is so frustrating. I'm tired of it.
Really? Are they? I mean...I just don't think so.
I'm not sure they are playing below their talent level. They are losing to teams with better rated recruits and higher poll ratings. They are probably a 10 or 11 seed right now, which is 40-47 in the country. That is about right.
It doesn't help when we have to play all five of the top teams in the BE on the road(Ville, Pitt, Nova, GTown, ND), and the only one that we get at home is N.D.
The sad thing about this is it in not enjoyable for me to watch MU games anymore because we are this type of team. It really gets old getting yourself excited when you see MU play a great half of basketball like they did today and then come out and play a terrible second half. When you expect to blow the lead every game, it just is not fun watching it. I will always love and cheer for MU, yet the "Sitting on the Edge of your seat" waiting to see how MU is going to blow it is no fun at all.
Quote from: The Sultan of South Wayne on February 13, 2011, 02:20:02 PM
I'm not sure they are playing below their talent level. They are losing to teams with better rated recruits and higher poll ratings. They are probably a 10 or 11 seed right now, which is 40-47 in the country. That is about right.
Spot on. I don't understand where posters think we are an upper echelon team this year. We just aren't.
No one thought we were an upper echelon team but to watch us lose momentum every second half has grown old. We have no go to guy to light it up and we press so hard we make bad shots,bad passes and bad decisions. Buzz doesn't help either: when we needed to foul late there was no plan to do so or who to target
Neither do I and that was my point. I'm resigned to not get all bent out of shape w/this team anymore.
We are playing exactly where we should be. We aren't one of the best in the conference and we aren't one of the worst. In a tight conference like this year's big east, we are close, but we are JUST far enough the other teams from a player or even one-play-a-game standpoint that allows others to separate themselves from us.
We are meeting expectations for this year, basically.
I think this season just shows how important 4 year players are to a program. You have to think that the lack of experience playing together is really hurting this team.
Quote from: marqptm on February 13, 2011, 02:21:38 PM
Spot on. I don't understand where posters think we are an upper echelon team this year. We just aren't.
I thought we were picked for 8th in the Big East...isn't that part of the upper half?
I'll remove this myself.
Quote from: DiaperDandy on February 13, 2011, 02:34:09 PM
I think this season just shows how important 4 year players are to a program. You have to think that the lack of experience playing together is really hurting this team.
It ain't rocket surgery, for Pete's sakes, it's basketball. How much "practicing together" - ness does this team need? They've been at it since October, if not longer.
This entire thread is a continuation of the USF threads.
We were picked to be 8th in the BE. Check
We have no "bad losses" Check
Back in October we should have predicted this team was a "good team that would have a tough time winning on the road." So what did people expect?
Side note, this was our 10th ranked team in the last 16 games. That is more ranked teams than we played between 1985 and 1991 combined!
I doubt MU has ever played a stretch like this.
ADD
We have played 10 currently ranked teams in the last 16 games.
Wisconsin has played 2 currently ranked teams (OSU and Purdue) in their last 16. (They did play MSU, Minn and IL when they were ranked but they are not anymore)
Try to appreciate the difficultly of our schedule.
Good point. It is also 10 more ranked teams then the year we won the nit title. I'm thrilled we get to see mu on tv virtually every game and think something special could be coming together for next year. Otule (9 rebounds), blue (4 rebounds. No turnovers and good def), gardner (12 pts) making contributions today all has me more and more excited about next year. We are a little behind where I thought we'd be this year, but my goal is still the same - make the tourney this yearto give everyone a taste, hopefully win a game, and then get ready for a top tier team next year that could make a run.
Quote from: marquette09 on February 13, 2011, 02:21:16 PM
It doesn't help when we have to play all five of the top teams in the BE on the road(Ville, Pitt, Nova, GTown, ND), and the only one that we get at home is N.D.
Actually, this does help, because we probably wouldn't have beaten those teams at home either, and its nowhere near as much of an RPI hit losing those games on the road.
We have the majority of our most competitive games (St. Johns, West Virginia, Syracuse, Cincinnati) at home, where we've already won two of them, and will benefit greatly with the home court advantage in the other two.
And lets face it, while the Georgetown win would have been nice, St. Johns and Cincinnati are MUST wins since those are the teams we're bunched up with in the middle of the pack. I'd much rather have those two games at home right now.
Quote from: wildbill sb on February 13, 2011, 02:41:16 PM
It ain't rocket surgery, for Pete's sakes, it's basketball. How much "practicing together" - ness does this team need? They've been at it since October, if not longer.
What's rocket surgery?
Quote from: Marquette84 on February 13, 2011, 02:55:35 PM
Actually, this does help, because we probably wouldn't have beaten those teams at home either, and its nowhere near as much of an RPI hit losing those games on the road.
We have the majority of our most competitive games (St. Johns, West Virginia, Syracuse, Cincinnati) at home, where we've already won two of them, and will benefit greatly with the home court advantage in the other two.
And lets face it, while the Georgetown win would have been nice, St. Johns and Cincinnati are MUST wins since those are the teams we're bunched up with in the middle of the pack. I'd much rather have those two games at home right now.
Valid point, but I feel we probably could have won two of the four at home against Ville, GTown, Nova and Pitt. I think we would beat the Ville in Milwaukee and probably Nova or G'Town too.
Agree with you about Cincy and SJU at home, we got to win. Today was tough but the guys have got to get over it and be ready to go Tuesday night.
Quote from: Niv Berkowitz on February 13, 2011, 02:19:05 PM
Really? Are they? I mean...I just don't think so.
I agree completley. I think the MU faithfull want to believe we are better than we are.
Sooner or later a talented team wins some of these games that we manage to lose. We barely got out of South Florida with our pants on. We are a double digit losses already. If we had so much talent then our record should be better than it is.
Zero quality non-confernce wins, zero quality road wins. It time take off the sunglasses. Perception is not reality.
I know we all love the talent of the JUCO's on the team, and they are probably close because they share the JUCO background but I wonder if Elmore was right today. Is the number of JUCO's with their limited years on the team hurting overall cohesion both on the defensive and offensive ends of the court? No inherent fault of their own, just a function of not having enough time together to gel in the sense they just know where everyone else is going to be. Really, we've only got one legitimate three year starter on the team (Butler) given Fulce's injury history, and most of the guys ar D1 rookies or are only in their second season.
I'm sure somebody with a lot more college bball sense than me can provide a deeper argument for or against.
/Not trying to restart the 'JUCO's are good vs. bad debate
Quote from: Lennys Tap on February 13, 2011, 03:02:48 PM
What's rocket surgery?
Fuggin' hilarious
This is a good thread. People have completely lost perspective on this team. To me it's very simple; this team has not overachieved, and this team has not underachieved.
They've simply held serve. And if they continue to do so they will be a tourney team. I think that's a pretty nice accomplishment based on my expectations coming into the year
Quote from: Lennys Tap on February 13, 2011, 03:02:48 PM
What's rocket surgery?
My febrile attempt at humor, using a mock GWB malaprop, intentionally. (Doesn't say much about my comedic skills, when I have to explain my jokes, does it?)
Quote from: 79Warrior on February 13, 2011, 05:50:40 PM
Zero quality non-confernce wins, zero quality road wins. It time take off the sunglasses. Perception is not reality.
Quality non-conference wins only matter if you're in the ACC this year or C-USA any year. When you're in the BE, you have plenty of changes to beat top 25 teams.
Quote from: AnotherMU84 on February 13, 2011, 06:55:27 PM
Quality non-conference wins only matter if you're in the ACC this year or C-USA any year. When you're in the BE, you have plenty of changes to beat top 25 teams.
well then, we are failing that test aren't we. What are we, 2-9 against Top 25 when we played them. WVU was not ranked when we beat them.
No Senior Leadership, Low Basketball IQ, and a coach still learning on the run-puts Marquette in the position that they are in. plain and simple
I think we were all spoiled the Amigo's freshmen year when we had mild expectations and high hopes but they overachieved. Some of us were just hoping to have an athletic team that would grow together. The year before Novak looked horrible because he couldn't handle the ball and his senior year he looked great due to Amigo's ball movement. We also had some more experienced players coming off the bench to aid these players.
This year our expectations were raised by our performance against Duke and seeing Gardner score points down low early in the season. We soon found out that Gardner didn't fit into Buzz's defensive scheme and that Blue and Cadougan had shooting difficulties. A lot of our expectations of the freshmen failed to materialize but our hopes remained high. When friends asked me about MU early in the season I told them that I thought we could be very good or mediocre. This group was unproven and I think that they will be much better next season. I think JB really benefited from Hayward's presence last year along with Cubillan's and Acker's outside shooting. This team obviously misses a go to scorer but they also miss a strong leader. I mean this as no slight to JB as he is an individual that leads by example and doesn't have God given leadership skills.
I don't have any statistics to back it up but I also think that this team goes up and down with Crowder's and JB's 3 point shooting.
Quote from: Marq on February 13, 2011, 07:55:07 PM
No Senior Leadership, Low Basketball IQ, and a coach still learning on the run-puts Marquette in the position that they are in. plain and simple
... and what position is that? They cannot beat top 25 teams on the road/neutral ('nova, G-Town, ND, Pitt, Vandy and Duke) but can beat them at home (WVU, ND and Syracuse).
This is your definition of low bball IQ and a coach that is learning?
Quote from: AnotherMU84 on February 13, 2011, 08:10:09 PM
... and what position is that? They cannot beat top 25 teams on the road/neutral ('nova, G-Town, ND, Pitt, Vandy and Duke) but can beat them at home (WVU, ND and Syracuse).
This is your definition of low bball IQ and a coach that is learning?
The position im speaking of is the 9th place that they are currently in. And the low B Ball IQ is speak of is failure to do the simple things like boxing out consistantly, feeding the post, making the extra pass. And I think most people on this board would agree that Buzz is still learning on the job.
I think we are a team that works very hard but we simply do not have the talent that teams in the upper half of the BE have. Jimmy is a good second or 3rd option but can't carry the team like other team's "best player" can. DJO is too inconsistant. Buycks does not provide the steadying enfluence you need from a senior (way too mistake prown) JC, Blue, Gardner still a year or more away. I don't see this team being able to win 5 of their next 6. Last year's team had gotten to a point where they could do it, this year's team is just not quite as good.
The signs have been there all year. A near loss to Bucknell at home, played UWM way too close. We've been close against the better teams BUT not as close as last year (beat on the last possession or ball at the end with a chance to win or tie). To borrow Buzz's phrase we have no margin for error. Do one thing substandard (miss free throws, turn to ball over more than normal, shoot poorly) and we can't recover.
I'm hoping it is a transitional year and next year the combination of improvement and new players more than make up for the guys we are losing. I don't think we'll find these guys as tough to replace as last years seniors so I'm hopeful that next year we'll be able to win against better teams even when not at our absolute best.
Quote from: Marq on February 13, 2011, 08:39:52 PM
The position im speaking of is the 9th place that they are currently in. And the low B Ball IQ is speak of is failure to do the simple things like boxing out consistantly, feeding the post, making the extra pass. And I think most people on this board would agree that Buzz is still learning on the job.
First, you realize that the other team is trying to win the game? And the other team is a top 10 team (will be next week).
Second regarding boxing out, Outle had a career high 9 rebounds. MU had 33 rebounds, GU had 32. MU had 7 offense rebounds GU had 6.
Feeding the post? MU scored 18 points from the "5" today (DG = 12, CO = 6). This was far and away the best performance from the post this year.
Making the extra pass? I thought the problem was too many passes, see Buycks forced TOs today.
Buzz is still learning? Coach K is still learning.
In sum, did you watch the game today because the low BB IQ are these comments.
COUNT IT, MOTHERF!@#ER!!
Well, perhaps in DJO's opinion, the ref is a MF'er. Said ref took exception to the nickname and acted in a like manner.
In any regard, really dumb ass move on the MU player's part.
Quote from: NotAnAlum on February 13, 2011, 09:54:22 PM
I think we are a team that works very hard but we simply do not have the talent that teams in the upper half of the BE have. Jimmy is a good second or 3rd option but can't carry the team like other team's "best player" can. DJO is too inconsistant. Buycks does not provide the steadying enfluence you need from a senior (way too mistake prown) JC, Blue, Gardner still a year or more away. I don't see this team being able to win 5 of their next 6. Last year's team had gotten to a point where they could do it, this year's team is just not quite as good.
The signs have been there all year. A near loss to Bucknell at home, played UWM way too close. We've been close against the better teams BUT not as close as last year (beat on the last possession or ball at the end with a chance to win or tie). To borrow Buzz's phrase we have no margin for error. Do one thing substandard (miss free throws, turn to ball over more than normal, shoot poorly) and we can't recover.
I'm hoping it is a transitional year and next year the combination of improvement and new players more than make up for the guys we are losing. I don't think we'll find these guys as tough to replace as last years seniors so I'm hopeful that next year we'll be able to win against better teams even when not at our absolute best.
Methinks your analysis points the finger squarely at the coach.
Two years ago 11-7
Last year 10-8
This year 9-9? With all Buzz's guys. Is there a trend here?
Quote from: willie warrior on February 14, 2011, 06:52:51 AM
Methinks your analysis points the finger squarely at the coach.
Two years ago 11-7
Last year 10-8
This year 9-9? With all Buzz's guys. Is there a trend here?
So years, conference schedules and talent levels are the same?
Not to mention we were actually 11-7 last year, 12-6 the year before. And this year isn't over, so 9-9 means nothing. Nice try though willie.
Quote from: 4everwarriors on February 14, 2011, 06:12:59 AM
Well, perhaps in DJO's opinion, the ref is a MF'er. Said ref took exception to the nickname and acted in a like manner.
In any regard, really dumb ass move on the MU player's part.
I just thought Another made a great post, and I prefer the, 'Count It, B---h' to the +1 or +1,000,000. Based on all the reactions I have seen throughout the course of the year in NCAA basketball there is no 'respect for the game' rule. I, for one, would prefer there is. I like it in the NBA. Until then, 'count it, dumb a--' should be no less acceptable than 'AAAANNNND OONNNEE!!' every time a guy gets touched on a drive. Or Pitt players complaining on every foul call.
Quote from: DiaperDandy on February 13, 2011, 02:21:25 PM
The sad thing about this is it in not enjoyable for me to watch MU games anymore because we are this type of team. It really gets old getting yourself excited when you see MU play a great half of basketball like they did today and then come out and play a terrible second half. When you expect to blow the lead every game, it just is not fun watching it. I will always love and cheer for MU, yet the "Sitting on the Edge of your seat"waiting to see how MU is going to blow it is no fun at all.
I disagree
While i obviously wish that Marquette would have won at least two more games among the close losses to greatly improve the chances for an NCAA Tournament bid, i enjoy that we play in so many close games.
I watch sports mainly because i find it good entertainment. Well, close games in any sport can certainly be stressful to watch, but for me it's that "Sitting on the Edge of your seat" tension in close games which makes sports so much fun to watch.
Yea, it is entertaining to watch a team you follow just flat out whip another good team, but i think for most fans, it's those tension filled close games that you remember most, win or lose. Blowouts for me cease to stay interesting all game long unless it's against a rival. Unfortunately though, teams a fan cheers for will lose a bunch of those tension filled close games and that can bring with it the gut-punch feeling.