I understand he is good at defense but as many turnovers that he causes, he makes more bad decisions on the offensive end. I am not going to say he is a bust. I actually think he will turn out to be very good at MU but why is he in the damn game with bad play after bad play on the offensive end.
That is a myth that he is so good at D. He should be on ther bench.
You're serious?
He is bad. It's embarrassing. I love my MU hoops, but good lord get him off the court.
An entire thread for this is not needed, and is kind of classless.
Quote from: KipsBayEagle on February 09, 2011, 07:41:36 PM
An entire thread for this is not needed, and is kind of classless.
why?
Quote from: KipsBayEagle on February 09, 2011, 07:41:36 PM
An entire thread for this is not needed, and is kind of classless.
Alright, Kip ::). The dude is playing like a 7th grader who has played basketball 5 times in his life. It's brutal.
Quote from: ErickJD08 on February 09, 2011, 07:42:27 PM
why?
I just don't think its classy to start a thread questioning why a kid is playing when you could simply post this in one of the current threads about the game instead of starting a whole topic about it.
Sure he is having a terrible offensive night, and is a definite liability when he shoots, but he is making some nice things happen tonight. Good hustle, good drives, nice dish. I like what I see.
Stunningly, he's a freshman, making freshman mistakes--yes, I know that is frustrating, but that's a fact. He's playing to try to get a concussed Butler some minutes rest.
Quote from: 21Jumpstreet on February 09, 2011, 07:45:09 PM
Sure he is having a terrible offensive night, and is a definite liability when he shoots, but he is making some nice things happen tonight. Good hustle, good drives, nice dish. I like what I see.
Agreed.
He was the only one looking to do anything when he was on the court with JFB, Caddy, Fulce and OTule.
Awful lineup, BTW.
He seems to have more confidence offensively tonight. It's not turning into points but still nice to see.
ffffffff
Quote from: lab_warrior on February 09, 2011, 07:46:18 PM
Stunningly, he's a freshman, making freshman mistakes--yes, I know that is frustrating, but that's a fact. He's playing to try to get a concussed Butler some minutes rest.
I am fine with that. I don't mind him playing. I don't think he should be getting that many minutes. We should be asking him to do things he is not ready to do.
Yes, I believe it is confidence, too. He has made mistakes and has not been pulled. You can see he is infinitely more comfortable on the floor. Nice to see him make a move rather than hastily get rid of the ball asap.
he should be fine, its a big difference from high school to the big east
Quote from: 21Jumpstreet on February 09, 2011, 07:50:06 PM
Yes, I believe it is confidence, too. He has made mistakes and has not been pulled. You can see he is infinitely more comfortable on the floor. Nice to see him make a move rather than hastily get rid of the ball asap.
I agree 100%. I like the confidence. But maybe he lacked confidence because he knows he can't finish. I don't think one basket resulted from a drive other than the dish to Jae (which was very nice). He either blew the basket or had it swatted to the 8th row.
Quote from: ErickJD08 on February 09, 2011, 07:54:40 PM
I agree 100%. I like the confidence. But maybe he lacked confidence because he knows he can't finish. I don't think one basket resulted from a drive other than the dish to Jae (which was very nice). He either blew the basket or had it swatted to the 8th row.
You're right, and with a little more time and confidence those drives will be a half step deeper and he will draw a foul. USF is long, Vander is learning. That equals block party. I think this will catapult him for the remainder of the season.
He is 1 for 10 from field and 0 for 2 from free throw. Confidence?
Confidence, absolutely. Liability, absolutely. He's showing some very nice things. Shooting is not one of them, but the confidence to make something happen definitely is.
While its is super frustrating, fact is that the kid is a freshman and has a ton of talent. He ain't shooting the ball well now. Neither did Dom James or McNeal for long stretches of their career. If he's having these kinds of games at this point next year then I'll start really getting concerned. Right now, gritting my teeth and taking it. Plus, Buycks is 1-15 or whatever too so I don't see what the option is.
And, if Blue isn't being aggressive, then the team is playing 4 on 5 offensively.
Quote from: 21Jumpstreet on February 09, 2011, 07:57:05 PM
You're right, and with a little more time and confidence those drives will be a half step deeper and he will draw a foul. USF is long, Vander is learning. That equals block party. I think this will catapult him for the remainder of the season.
Catapult, huh?
Blue does shoot his shot like a catapult...
He played terrible tonight, looked lost and his shot is not improving. He baraley grazed rim on one of those freethrows, that is unnaceptable for a guard. He needs a lot of work.
Because he continues to bust his butt. He is a freshman in the BEast fighting his way through. Let's cut the freshman a little slack. Wasn't it Al who said that the best thing about a freshman is that they become a sophomore?
I'm sorry, he was an absolute liability in every way tonight. I don't like to question these kids, but what was he doing with the ball tonight? I don't understand our rotation at all.
He is getting confidence and you like what you see even though it's not turning into points? That is the dumbest thing I have ever heard.
He was bad tonight, and Buzz needs to rein him in. He should not be taking shots and ruining possessions when we have so many more capable scorers.
His shooting was atrocious, that's not even debatable. However, his work on full-court press D in the second half started our comeback.
Unfortunately, Blue might be a bust as far as hype to reality ratio. We're talking Brian Butch level.
He was our leading rebounder through the 1st half+?
Quote from: Stone Cold on February 09, 2011, 08:31:33 PM
Unfortunately, Blue might be a bust as far as hype to reality ratio. We're talking Brian Butch level.
Are you f*****g serious? Get a grip.
Quote from: Jacks DC on February 09, 2011, 08:31:08 PM
He is getting confidence and you like what you see even though it's not turning into points? That is the dumbest thing I have ever heard.
He was bad tonight, and Buzz needs to rein him in. He should not be taking shots and ruining possessions when we have so many more capable scorers.
Your quote is not entirely accurate. He is an offensive liability when he shoots at this time. However, he hustled, rebounded, dished, and created. His non-shooting led to points. I completely agree that he should not look to score first, we have many capable scorers. Oh but DB, DJO, JFB for a bit, even Crowder for a while were having a tough time offensively. It is my opinion that without the minutes from Blue we don't come back and get blown out. He has a lot of work to do, he is a freshman. He was not bad tonight, he was good tonight and shot badly.
And if that is the dumbest thing you have ever heard, I envy you.
Anyone sticking up for Blue is ridiculously out of their mind. He is horrible. He does well against scrub teams. Does horrible against any sort of talent. He offers nothing to the table. He hurts the team while he's in the game. End of story. If you didn't see that tonight and the past Big East games then you're clueless.
Does he have potential? Yes. Will he help the team in any capacity this year? No.
Quote from: ATL MU Warrior on February 09, 2011, 08:38:14 PM
Are you f*****g serious? Get a grip.
I've commented on Blue's horrendous shooting form and some said it was improving.
Well, on those FT's tonight, it was as bad as I've ever seen. If Blue is ever going to be an adequate player, he needs to spend the whole summer fixing his mechanics.
Serious as a heart attack.
Blue has no shot, is a huge liability...this for a kid that had one and done type hype.
Now he's got plenty of time to improve and I'm sure he will. But he is not a good player at the BE level right now.
Quote from: Stone Cold on February 09, 2011, 08:41:06 PM
Serious as a heart attack.
Blue has no shot, is a huge liability...this for a kid that had one and done type hype.
Now he's got plenty of time to improve and I'm sure he will. But he is not a good player at the BE level right now.
Come on...this is pretty much the exact opposite of your post from about 10 minutes ago.
Which is it? Is he a Brian Butch type bust or are you sure he's going to improve?
Anyone on our roster could have contributed more then Blue did tonight.
Quote from: ATL MU Warrior on February 09, 2011, 08:44:52 PM
Come on...this is pretty much the exact opposite of your post from about 10 minutes ago.
Which is it? Is he a Brian Butch type bust or are you sure he's going to improve?
Brian Butch didn't improve?
Blue was 1 for 9 shooting, had 6 boards.
Quote from: Jacks DC on February 09, 2011, 08:46:23 PM
Anyone on our roster could have contributed more then Blue did tonight.
But didn't like Blue did.
Quote from: Stone Cold on February 09, 2011, 08:47:20 PM
Brian Butch didn't improve?
I honestly don't have any idea. I'm just busting your chops :P
Quote from: New Era Warriors on February 09, 2011, 08:40:46 PM
Anyone sticking up for Blue is ridiculously out of their mind. He is horrible. He does well against scrub teams. Does horrible against any sort of talent. He offers nothing to the table. He hurts the team while he's in the game. End of story. If you didn't see that tonight and the past Big East games then you're clueless.
Does he have potential? Yes. Will he help the team in any capacity this year? No.
Except for the time two hours ago he played great full-court D in a 16 point comeback....
I get it. His J looks terrible and he makes some head-scratching turnovers that had me yelling at the tv. But he definitely played well during our comeback.
Quote from: 21Jumpstreet on February 09, 2011, 08:48:00 PM
But didn't like Blue did.
Well Frozena did not go 1-9. Whatever, I'm not going to pile on the guy, he just needs time. I'll focus on the fact that Crowder is amazing.
I agree his shooting for sucks right now. His confidence is down. His offensive game is in need of a lot of maturity and this offseason will help that. But to say he is horrible at defense is absurd. There's a reason why he was the lockdown defender on the USA team this past summer. Appaently a lot of you must not think those coaches know what they are talking about or what buzz even knows. Tonight he showed just as
Much if not more hustle than anyone even though he was very erratic at times. I'll take heart and hustle in a come from behind (16 points down) win. Mark my words that he will be much better next year all around and much much better by his senior year is over. I am starting to think the majority of the ppl on this board have never even played basketball before.
I'm hoping that anyone questioning Blue's ability/playing time aren't also asking for EWill or Jamail to be getting more PT.
Quote from: KipsBayEagle on February 09, 2011, 07:44:29 PM
I just don't think its classy to start a thread questioning why a kid is playing when you could simply post this in one of the current threads about the game instead of starting a whole topic about it.
I never understood the need to create a new thread about every little in game discussion. It breaks discussion and creates 30 useless threads after each game. It's like every poster feels their topic is superior to other in game chatter. Keep in one place so we don't have to jump all over the board.
Quote from: New Era Warriors on February 09, 2011, 08:40:46 PM
Anyone sticking up for Blue is ridiculously out of their mind. He is horrible. He does well against scrub teams. Does horrible against any sort of talent. He offers nothing to the table. He hurts the team while he's in the game. End of story. If you didn't see that tonight and the past Big East games then you're clueless.
Does he have potential? Yes. Will he help the team in any capacity this year? No.
Who do you stick up for then if not your own team?
1 of 9 from the field. His FT attempts barely hit the rim. And, you're right, his defensive prowess is a total myth. He's not that good defensively...at least not good enough to balance out his defensive ineptitude.
Some of you classy MF'ers, must be why Vander is questioning the deletion of his Twitter account.
the kids a freshman, give him some time...you want to harp on a player, harp on Buycks.
Also...there were a number of times in the first half where Blue was the only MU player fighting for a loose ball or rebound. Yeah his offense isn't there yet, but the kid brings a ton of hustle on the defensive side and that showed last night.
Quote from: reinko on February 10, 2011, 06:10:13 AM
Some of you classy MF'ers, must be why Vander is questioning the deletion of his Twitter account.
That shouldn't even be a question.
It's a clear deletion. That crap is a ticking bomb for college kids.
Blue's a Frosh. Next year is the time to hold the light up to his talents.
... This thread is why this board is so maddening ...
We go between this thread and the Junior thread and pound these guys for being worthless (even they are far from being worthless) to the "why don't we play EWill and JJ more so they can develop even if it means losing a game or two along the way."
Just when I think the analysis here is completely idiotic, it makes a new low.
Sitting 4 rows behind the bench is a whole different view. I really almost forgot what it is like that close. Blues efforts were fantastic. After one of his layups there was a little heated jawing. He was really into it and was even tryingto get others pumped. With that said his offense is bad, but when the game slows down for him, watch out. JFB was not happy getting pulled often, either was Jae but they took it like men. More of u that were there should have just walked down there. It was easy.
Quote from: AnotherMU84 on February 10, 2011, 07:13:54 AM
... This thread is why this board is so maddening ...
We go between this thread and the Junior thread and pound these guys for being worthless (even they are far from being worthless) to the "why don't we play EWill and JJ more so they can develop even if it means losing a game or two along the way."
+1 million.
Didn't get to see last night's game, but this thread is pretty sad.
Saying this thread is sad is an insult to sad things everywhere. This thread is a fucking joke. Blue busted ass last night. Did he score a bunch? Nope, but he didn't need to. Snagged some key rebounds moved the ball well and had some aggressive moves to the basket. He also appeared to be trying to pump some of the other guys up when MU was trying to put a run together. I have no issue with the amount of PT he gets.
Quote from: MU B2002 on February 10, 2011, 08:19:44 AM
Saying this thread is sad is an insult to sad things everywhere. This thread is a fracking joke. Blue busted ass last night. Did he score a bunch? Nope, but he didn't need to. Snagged some key rebounds moved the ball well and had some aggressive moves to the basket. He also appeared to be trying to pump some of the other guys up when MU was trying to put a run together. I have no issue with the amount of PT he gets.
Of course you are entitled to your opinion, and others who disagree with you are entitled to theirs.
willie, I agree, but it would be nice if people would do so in a respectful manner.
It has been said countless times that current players and recruits read this board. Yet some people hide behind their anonymity to insult and degrade - saying things they would never say if they were sitting across the table from them.
I don't remember the last time that it felt like I was watching a different game than a lot of people here, at least to this extent.
- Does anyone remember what we looked like when Vander was taking most of those shots that led to his low FG%? What, given the games development up to that point, would you rather have seen happen at that point? We were going turnover for turnover with the most careless team in the BEast. At one point midway through the first half, we had 7 more shots than USF in about 10-12 minutes. Thats why we came back people. We shot about 40% while they shot OVER 50%. Vander's energy is one big reason we had that volume advantage. That volume advantage is the reason we won.
- And ripping on his defense last night? In the first half, he was guarding guys that were 6'10"!!! And he still was our leading rebounder. Once Buzz changed the plan and used his on the ball pressure, he was invaluable to that man press.
Go Vander go. I'd like to see him avoid the three's but he should take the ball to the hoop when it is there. His three ORBs last night were huge -- esp his ORB and assist to Fulce late in the 1H to cut the lead to 9. I was pleased to see Buzz leave Vander out there to play through some mistakes, and for Blue to have the aggressiveness and confidence he'll need to succeed going forward. He didn't shoot well but contributed to a win. He'll be very good next season and beyond.
Quote from: NYWarrior on February 10, 2011, 08:52:44 AM
Go Vander go. I'd like to see him avoid the three's but he should take the ball to the hoop when it is there. His three ORBs last night were huge -- esp his ORB and assist to Fulce late in the 1H to cut the lead to 9. I was pleased to see Buzz leave Vander out there to play through some mistakes, and for Blue to have the aggressiveness and confidence he'll need to succeed going forward. He didn't shoot well but contributed to a win. He'll be very good next season and beyond.
+1
Quote from: MUBurrow on February 10, 2011, 08:43:56 AM
I don't remember the last time that it felt like I was watching a different game than a lot of people here, at least to this extent.
- Does anyone remember what we looked like when Vander was taking most of those shots that led to his low FG%? What, given the games development up to that point, would you rather have seen happen at that point? We were going turnover for turnover with the most careless team in the BEast. At one point midway through the first half, we had 7 more shots than USF in about 10-12 minutes. Thats why we came back people. We shot about 40% while they shot OVER 50%. Vander's energy is one big reason we had that volume advantage. That volume advantage is the reason we won.
- And ripping on his defense last night? In the first half, he was guarding guys that were 6'10"!!! And he still was our leading rebounder. Once Buzz changed the plan and used his on the ball pressure, he was invaluable to that man press.
I don't want this thread to be a bashing contest. The point is that Blue is VERY limited on offense right now. When he is out there, he should defer on offense. When he stops doing that, I don't think he should be playing. That's all. Therefore, I think he should stick to playing tough defense and defer on offense, a la Jimmy Butler his first year. Jimmy's first year was all about defense and offensive rebound and put backs.
You realize that VB has probably played against more top 10 teams this year than Henry or Miller saw in their careers.
This years SOS = 34, RPI = 58
Cordell Henry's Freshman year
1999 = SOS 109, RPI = 130
Tony Miller's Freshman year was 1992 and I cannot find SOS and RPI but I'll guess that it was NOT as good as Henry's first year.
From the MU wiki about 1992 - Marquette played top-25 opponents five times, only managing one victory against DePaul. However, that was Marquette's first victory over a ranked opponent since January 28, 1984, ending a drought of 15 consecutive losses against ranked opponents over the previous eight years.
---
We forgot who much worse the competition was back then. As the Wiki says, in 1992 (Tony Miller's freshman year) we played 5 ranked teams, winning one. From 1984 to 1992 (8 years), we played just 15 ranked opponents.
Just this year, depending on how things work out, we could play as many as 17 ranked opponents BEFORE the BE and NCAA tourneys. That is more than some decades!
Miller and Henry freshman years never saw anything like VB is seeing this year. Henry and Miller never had to defend the national POY like VB might have done (and will do again!) in Uconn's Kimba Walker.
I just want Blue to stop taking threes.
Another MU 84. You make too much sense and bring too much logic. Someone is going to rip you for pointing this out :)
Quote from: Henry Sugar on February 10, 2011, 09:19:39 AM
I just want Blue to stop taking threes.
and long two's. Really, anything outside the paint.
I thought he was excellent defensively last night and really helped the press work. But his offense was maddening and I thought he could have used a short sit-down after his 3 possession run of offensive bad in the second half.
Quote from: TJ on February 10, 2011, 09:27:00 AM
and long two's. Really, anything outside the paint.
I actually want everyone on the team to stop taking long two's. It's the
MOST INEFFICIENT SHOT IN BASKETBALL! (MISIB)
Quote from: TJ on February 10, 2011, 09:27:00 AM
and long two's. Really, anything outside the paint.
I thought he was excellent defensively last night and really helped the press work. But his offense was maddening and I thought he could have used a short sit-down after his 3 possession run of offensive bad in the second half.
I agree that he struggled a bit offensively last night, but remember how everyone was bashing how tentative and "scared" he looked the last couple games? That was gone and he was attacking offensively for the first time in awhile. He should work on his shot selection, sure, but that intensity and confidence is gonna help him improve offensively. He only had 1 TO and his 3 was wide open and in the flow of the offense, relax people.
I want Blue to stop driving to the hoop, so he won't have to miss FT's over and over again.
With his release point getting lower and lower with each game, he'll look like a fifth grade girl shooting from her chest in a few games.
A question for the Blue fans out there...
If this is what he's going to be, a guy who's quick and hustles and plays good defense (imo, he's beaten off the dribble too much), is that enough?
Quote from: Henry Sugar on February 10, 2011, 09:40:00 AM
I actually want everyone on the team to stop taking long two's. It's the MOST INEFFICIENT SHOT IN BASKETBALL! (MISIB)
Most. Infuriating. Shot. Ever.
Buycks had one where he got his man to bite on the shot fake, then he takes one dribble to his left, and straddles the line.
Poland (maybe it was him) had a set shot from the baseline with his foot on the line. Mike Kelley voiced our shared annoyance when players do that.
Jimmy was a pretty quiet guy during his first year here. Granted he had a year of JUCO under his belt, but still he was not contributing much in the way of points. There were the whispers that he would be the guy in a few years. Not many believed it. Look at him now. Just be patient, Vander will get there too.
A follow up to my earlier post.
Compare VB's number through the Vanderbilt game (OOC) to Henry and Miller's Freshman years. Through Vandy, VB numbers were similar to Miller's and better than Henry's freshman years.
Though Vandy this year's SOS was similar to all of 1999 (Henry's Freshman year) and 1992 (Miller's Freshman year).
Then we hit the BE and VB struggles. Well Henry and Miller would have been run off the court their Freshman year had we played a BE type of stretch then as well.
Relax, VB will be fine and can still be a decent pro. Miller was.
You talk about Blue's shooting? What about Odom's. Thought he was suppose to be the leader. Not NBA material, he better come back next year and learn what pressure is. He's sick.
He should learn from Crowder what hustle and shooting is. Thought Blue did well except shoot.
Did Butler start?
Quote from: warriors1965 on February 10, 2011, 09:51:54 AM
A question for the Blue fans out there...
If this is what he's going to be, a guy who's quick and hustles and plays good defense (imo, he's beaten off the dribble too much), is that enough?
What does this have to do with anything? You think all he's going to be for four years is a guy who is athletic, hustles and plays good defense? I think that right now, he more than makes up for a lack of one on one offense with those things.
Is it enough? Enough for what? Even if he never developed a better offensive game (which he absolutely will, and fwiw needs to take open threes in the flow of the offense as he's a guard) would it be worth it to have him on the team? Absolutely. Enough to get PT? Absolutely, look at some of the guards we've had over the past few years who brought little on ball offense but were important contributors. I just don't get what you are trying to say here.
Quote from: JWags85 on February 10, 2011, 09:50:23 AM
I agree that he struggled a bit offensively last night, but remember how everyone was bashing how tentative and "scared" he looked the last couple games? That was gone and he was attacking offensively for the first time in awhile. He should work on his shot selection, sure, but that intensity and confidence is gonna help him improve offensively. He only had 1 TO and his 3 was wide open and in the flow of the offense, relax people.
This.
As I just said in another post where someone was bashing the kid, I came away from last night thinking that he is going to be heard from teh rest of the way. Despite the missed shots, he showed me the stones I have been hoping to see all year, to match his talent and athleticism.
Some people like willie and Marquette65 seem to think its ok to bitch and moan, because they somehow think they deserved to have Dwyane Wade show up in the person of Vander Blue. So sorry he isn't the player you feel you are entitled to, but what has he ever done to deserve to be criticized for not being an All Big East player in his freshmen year? Should we rip on/write off Jamail Jones and Eric Williams to because they can't even get on the floor?
Quote from: NavinRJohnson on February 10, 2011, 12:30:43 PM
This.
As I just said in another post where someone was bashing the kid, I came away from last night thinking that he is going to be heard from teh rest of the way. Despite the missed shots, he showed me the stones I have been hoping to see all year, to match his talent and athleticism.
Some people like willie and Marquette65 seem to think its ok to bitch and moan, because they somehow think they deserved to have Dwyane Wade show up in the person of Vander Blue. So sorry he isn't the player you feel you are entitled to, but what has he ever done to deserve to be criticized for not being an All Big East player in his freshmen year? Should we rip on/write off Jamail Jones and Eric Williams to because they can't even get on the floor?
I believe this has already been done...numerous times.
Quote from: MUBurrow on February 10, 2011, 11:48:59 AM
What does this have to do with anything? You think all he's going to be for four years is a guy who is athletic, hustles and plays good defense? I think that right now, he more than makes up for a lack of one on one offense with those things.
Is it enough? Enough for what? Even if he never developed a better offensive game (which he absolutely will, and fwiw needs to take open threes in the flow of the offense as he's a guard) would it be worth it to have him on the team? Absolutely. Enough to get PT? Absolutely, look at some of the guards we've had over the past few years who brought little on ball offense but were important contributors. I just don't get what you are trying to say here.
Dude's a troll, and has an established schtick. It's not worth your effort picking apart his whining.
It's hard to understand how a good athlete can lose his shooting touch. Blue has no feel for scoring.
I think Vander brings some deflections, and rebounds and hustle and energy and all that rubs off on your team. D James went through
periods where he did not shoot with confidence, it happens. I missed most of the 1/2 half but I thought Blue was a Big part of the comeback with rebounds, and his lenght and speed with the press. Also a nice dish to Crowder for a rare 1/2 court easy bucket.
Quote from: NYWarrior on February 10, 2011, 08:52:44 AM
Go Vander go. I'd like to see him avoid the three's but he should take the ball to the hoop when it is there. His three ORBs last night were huge -- esp his ORB and assist to Fulce late in the 1H to cut the lead to 9. I was pleased to see Buzz leave Vander out there to play through some mistakes, and for Blue to have the aggressiveness and confidence he'll need to succeed going forward. He didn't shoot well but contributed to a win. He'll be very good next season and beyond.
I was thinking the same thing. I agree with you 100%. Buzz sees his effort especially on D. He's still learning on the offensive end. Def. needs to work on shooting technique but I think that will be done over this summer. He will be a force next year for sure. Team USA coaches hand picked him from thousands of high schoolers. I think they can evaluate talent!!!!
I think Buzz was trying to lose the game so he played Blue for all those minutes. Clearly Buzz is known for giving too many minutes to undeserving freshman, and his rotations stink, as evident by the fact that we never make the NCAA tourney, and our offensive efficiency is crap. You know all that subbing he does results in players not being able to find a flow, and results in a terrible shooting percentage for the team. It's rather obvious that we should rely on DJO, Buycks and JC for all our minutes at guard because no one on this site ever has issues with JC's game. It's not like MU needs to worry about foul trouble at the guard spot (because DJO never lets that happen), and we clearly don't need to get Blue minutes with the thought of him needing to be a leader at the guard spot next year.
I know the mods aren't real big on intervening in things, but can we please change the title of this thread? It's embarrassing that it shows up at the top of the list every time I log in. I would be downright ashamed if anyone close to Vander or another player were to see that on here. It presents a terrible and classless image of the Marquette community.
Vander is a freshman. Most freshmen aren't going to be game changers their first years, and that's fine. Plenty of other posters have shown that he is not statistically behind many of his peers. Give the kid a break. We got spoiled with the impact the 3 amigos had their frosh year. The kid will be fine, and shows all the to be a great player eventually.
Bah - the title itself is pretty tame. "Why is blue playing?"....
..."when he has 4 fouls"
..."I thought he had a concussion"
..."when he could be dominating?"
Yes, some things in the thread are crazy and embarrassing, but as a whole, it's a decent discussion. In case you want my opinion, I was yelling at the TV for him to stop shooting last night. But overall, I though he brought some energy and leadership we needed, exactly when MU needed it.
Quote from: Jam Chowder on February 10, 2011, 08:54:24 PM
I know the mods aren't real big on intervening in things, but can we please change the title of this thread? It's embarrassing that it shows up at the top of the list every time I log in. I would be downright ashamed if anyone close to Vander or another player were to see that on here. It presents a terrible and classless image of the Marquette community.
Vander is a freshman. Most freshmen aren't going to be game changers their first years, and that's fine. Plenty of other posters have shown that he is not statistically behind many of his peers. Give the kid a break. We got spoiled with the impact the 3 amigos had their frosh year. The kid will be fine, and shows all the to be a great player eventually.
WHY IS HE PLAYING?
How is that ripping on the kid? I think he is going to be good... GOING TO BE. He isn't now. And that's ok. I am a little disappointed because most kid's with that ever rare 5th star are pretty polished. But that's ok. The question still stands. Why is he playing? He was getting lay ups swatted into the 8th row. He was travelling, turning the ball over, shooting poor shots. If Buzz was telling him to do those things, shame on Buzz because the kid is not ready. But if he was doing those things on his own, then Buzz should have yanked him. So again, why was he playing? That's all the thread is about.
Quote from: AnotherMU84 on February 10, 2011, 09:14:26 AM
You realize that VB has probably played against more top 10 teams this year than Henry or Miller saw in their careers.
This years SOS = 34, RPI = 58
Cordell Henry's Freshman year
1999 = SOS 109, RPI = 130
Tony Miller's Freshman year was 1992 and I cannot find SOS and RPI but I'll guess that it was NOT as good as Henry's first year.
From the MU wiki about 1992 - Marquette played top-25 opponents five times, only managing one victory against DePaul. However, that was Marquette's first victory over a ranked opponent since January 28, 1984, ending a drought of 15 consecutive losses against ranked opponents over the previous eight years.
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We forgot who much worse the competition was back then. As the Wiki says, in 1992 (Tony Miller's freshman year) we played 5 ranked teams, winning one. From 1984 to 1992 (8 years), we played just 15 ranked opponents.
Just this year, depending on how things work out, we could play as many as 17 ranked opponents BEFORE the BE and NCAA tourneys. That is more than some decades!
Miller and Henry freshman years never saw anything like VB is seeing this year. Henry and Miller never had to defend the national POY like VB might have done (and will do again!) in Uconn's Kimba Walker.
+1
One of the few sensible posts in this thread.
I am amazed at people who would never ever be asked to put on the Marquette uniform take the piss out of a kid like Vander Blue. A group of us were in flight suits and leather flight jackets drinking in a bar in Seattle. A woman with dread locks and braided arm pit hair came up to us and berated us for "Bombing Mosques, Hospitals and Schools..." One of my guys replied, "Sister, only when I see some wings on your chest will I feel you have the right to challenge my flying a jet in combat."
I love guys who sit in a Lazy Boy and critique these kids.
Quote from: ErickJD08 on February 10, 2011, 11:47:32 PM
WHY IS HE PLAYING?
How is that ripping on the kid? I think he is going to be good... GOING TO BE. He isn't now. And that's ok. I am a little disappointed because most kid's with that ever rare 5th star are pretty polished. But that's ok. The question still stands. Why is he playing? He was getting lay ups swatted into the 8th row. He was travelling, turning the ball over, shooting poor shots. If Buzz was telling him to do those things, shame on Buzz because the kid is not ready. But if he was doing those things on his own, then Buzz should have yanked him. So again, why was he playing? That's all the thread is about.
I believe BMA posted something a few years back about 5 stars really not meaning a player was polished at all...and how off the high school rankings really are.
Out of curiousity, I wonder how many fans that are saying Vander shouldn't be playing were also the ones complaining that Mello should be getting more minutes. Not many college teams play only three guards during the course of a game...maybe there's something to believing that Vander has to play some minutes this year and we're lucky he's able to add something to the team defensively as our other freshman that plays clearly struggles in that area.
I am pro-Blue (in his freshman year) in certain situations where we have multiple other offensive threats on the floor. I am surprised a lot though of his lack of feel for taking it to the rim. The outside shot missing is a little more common and almost expected out of a 2 guard freshman. He definitely seems almost like Maymon (although Maymon was getting swatted by dIII teams) in that he's always been able to just speed by or jump over people on the way to the rim in the past. I wonder if this has to do with his lack of AAU experience, it seems like he didn't play much after his Junior year.
If you compare him to Mcneal as a freshman, both didn't have a jump shot, but it seems Jerel definitely had much more composure and ability to finish against taller/stronger competition. In high school Jerel played against better competition and was on one of the top AAU teams in the country.
In the end, I think it is unfair to judge his future from what you are seeing now. This summer is going to tell a lot about his development ability. If he is special, we will see a huge difference. I would be shocked and disappointed if he didn't come out with an overhauled shooting form next season.
Quote from: PuertoRicanNightmare on February 09, 2011, 08:30:08 PM
I'm sorry, he was an absolute liability in every way tonight. I don't like to question these kids, but what was he doing with the ball tonight? I don't understand our rotation at all.
Liability, not quite, he had several rebounds and a steal/deflections.
But I think there maybe something wrong with his eyesight, his shot is so bad. Seriously, his eyes should be checked.
As painful as the jumper was to watch, I really thought Blue contributed well in the comeback, and is going to be needed more if we are going to press more.
I believe he and Buycks are the only two guards we have that can deny opposing guards as they try to get to the hoop. DJO and Junior can harass on D, but they just don't seem to be able to square someone up and everytime someone goes by either of them the half court defense is exposed.