I thought the talk of KL transferring to MU was all academic as we was going to Iowa State. Well maybe not.
(Mods, I thought this new info deserved its own thread)
------
http://www.usatoday.com/sports/college/mensbasketball/2011-02-05-2201453709_x.htm
Highlight ...
Lucious still talks with Izzo and said Izzo has vowed to help him find the right fit for his final year of eligibility.
"Everything just didn't work out, so I think it's time to move on," Lucious said. "We just didn't see eye-to-eye on things. Just little minor things that I could have done better on my part."
Allen is eligible to play his final season for Iowa State in 2011-12. Lucious would be eligible to play in 2012-13.
Lucious said he's also planning to visit Marquette in the next few weeks and is hoping to decide on where he'll transfer in about a month.
I'd take Luscious for a season. Dude can play the point and did so in the championship game. Seen enough of this year's team to know we suck at the lead guard spot. With a year of practice, the cat could make a difference in his 5th year. I'd take the chance.
Quote from: 4everwarriors on February 05, 2011, 01:43:51 PM
I'd take Luscious for a season. Dude can play the point and did so in the championship game. Seen enough of this year's team to know we suck at the lead guard spot. With a year of practice, the cat could make a difference in his 5th year. I'd take the chance.
Pass. He's a middling player with ouff-court issues and not worth tying up a scholarship for two years so he can play one.
Now, if he were willing to come sans scholarship for at least one of those year, then you might be on to something. Otherwise, I'd rather use the scholarship on a developing freshman than a senior-to-be.
What if getting kicked off MSU was a wakeup call? And if it was what if he recommits himself to being the best person and bball player he can over the next year? There's no doubt about his talent, it's his decision making that's been in question.
If you can get a focused, commited year out of a kid with his talent, it could be huge.
And Buzz has brought in such great point guards since he's been here. Obviously, Buzz sees the deficiency and is interested.
Maybe buzz will adopt him.....
Quote from: 4everwarriors on February 05, 2011, 02:02:14 PM
And Buzz has brought in such great point guards since he's been here. Obviously, Buzz sees the deficiency and is interested.
What PG? He would have to sit all next year and in 2013 the only PG we would have is Junior (who would be a senior) as Smith left.
Assuming that JC continues to progress and KL can get his act together, that would mean first rate PG play for 40 minutes every game.
Not saying we should take him but he is worth a look. If he has his head together, they only reason I would pass is if a top 50 player/PG wants to commit.
Quote from: AnotherMU84 on February 05, 2011, 02:06:56 PM
What PG? He would have to sit all next year and in 2013 the only PG we would have is Junior (who would be a senior) as Smith left.
Assuming that JC continues to progress and KL can get his act together, that would mean first rate PG play for 40 minutes every game.
Not saying we should take him but he is worth a look. If he has his head together, they only reason I would pass is if a top 50 player/PG wants to commit.
We have D Wilson coming who will be a freshman this fall. He is supposed to be good.
If Lucious comes here, it would look like a vote of no confidence in Junior.
Why? Is D. Wilson also a vote of no confidence.
JC was hurt last year. We all remember Deiner's senior year. You can never have too many PGs.
Lets not forget about Dave Singleton here fellas. Wasn't it Matthews who said that Singleton was one of the best "newcomers" during last summer's ProAm?
Quote from: Litehouse on February 05, 2011, 02:16:40 PM
If Lucious comes here, it would look like a vote of no confidence in Junior.
So be it. This isn't peewee basketball any more. Lots of dollars and jobs at stake.
Because Lucious would only be eligible to play for Jr.'s senior season. D.Wilson will be 2 years behind Jr. If Jr. would get injured, we would still have Wilson, Blue and even Singleton to run the point if necessary.
Quote from: 4everwarriors on February 05, 2011, 02:24:11 PM
So be it. This isn't peewee basketball any more. Lots of dollars and jobs at stake.
I agree. I just think it would be telling of Buzz's real opinion of Jr's abilities.
Maybe I'm mistaken here, but aren't we talking about a kid who was shooting 31 percent from the floor this year (28.4 from beyond the arc) and has a career A/TO ratio of 1.6 to 1.
Vander Blue is being thrown under the bus around here for these kinds of numbers as a freshman and yet Lucious would be a great addition for one year?
I think people are remembering that he hit a couple of big shots in the tourney last year and forgetting that he's been a pretty average (at best) player during nearly three years at MSU. Nothing he's done in his career so far justifies burning two years of scholie for one year of play.
Why would we tie up a scholarship for a sit out year, and only get one year in retrurn? Nonsense.
We will have Jr. and Wilson, Blue can play point, and we can recruit another point next year.
This would make no sense.
Quote from: Pakuni on February 05, 2011, 02:29:45 PM
Maybe I'm mistaken here, but aren't we talking about a kid who was shooting 31 percent from the floor this year (28.4 from beyond the arc) and has a career A/TO ratio of 1.6 to 1.
Vander Blue is being thrown under the bus around here for these kinds of numbers as a freshman and yet Lucious would be a great addition for one year?
I think people are remembering that he hit a couple of big shots in the tourney last year and forgetting that he's been a pretty average (at best) player during nearly three years at MSU. Nothing he's done in his career so far justifies burning two years of scholie for one year of play.
You got Buzz' cell number? DiL his ass up. Buzz doesn't see it that way.
Quote from: OhioGoldenEagle on February 05, 2011, 02:23:05 PM
Lets not forget about Dave Singleton here fellas. Wasn't it Matthews who said that Singleton was one of the best "newcomers" during last summer's ProAm?
Was this supposed to be in teal? Or do you really think a walk-on transfer from High Point is a better option than someone with 2.5 years of B10 basketball under his belt.
Quote from: willie warrior on February 05, 2011, 02:31:53 PM
Why would we tie up a scholarship for a sit out year, and only get one year in retrurn? Nonsense.
See I agree with this. That means that if we award our final 2011 scholarship, we would have none left for 2012. IOW, someone would have to transfer, or someone would have to be Newbilled, for us to take the likes of Tokoto.
I don't agree that we should take him.
A pothead, drunk-driving, thief (allegedly). This would be a very embarrassing move and would make me really question Buzz's judge of character.
Tough standards. You're cuttin' out at least half of all college basketball players.
take him in a heartbeat
we have 2 places left. Isn't there an assumption Buzz is going to bring in a JUCO point?
Only way this works is if Lucious only ties up a scholarship for one year.
Quote from: Marquette65 on February 05, 2011, 03:54:24 PM
we have 2 places left. Isn't there an assumption Buzz is going to bring in a JUCO point?
Only way this works is if Lucious only ties up a scholarship for one year.
The assumption above is we have no others transfers. We have had transfers every semester Buzz has been here. This is not a knock against Buzz as this year D1 BBall has seen over 600 transfers and everyone gets them. It's the way of the world now.
So, we might have more than 2 places, we'll have to see.
Quote from: AnotherMU84 on February 05, 2011, 04:01:15 PM
The assumption above is we have no others transfers. We have had transfers every semester Buzz has been here. This is not a knock against Buzz as this year D1 BBall has seen over 600 transfers and everyone gets them. It's the way of the world now.
So, we might have more than 2 places, we'll have to see.
Regardless of the numbers, I'm not sure how to justify tying up a scholarship for two years for a player of Lucious' abilities. Rob Jackson was a unique situation because not only was a player at a huge position of need, but he was a really, really good college basketball player. Lucious is neither. There's nothing close to a guarantee that Lucious two years from now is better than Cadougan two years from now, in which case we've wasted two years of scholarship on one season off the bench.
This makes no sense whatsoever and I suspect many of those who think this is is a good idea are thinking more about Korie Lucious the top 100 high school player not Korie Lucious the kicked-off-the-team backup.
I'd be happy to take him...if he walks on.
Outside of that very, very, very, very, very, very, very unlikely scenario, I see no reason to burn two scholarship years for one playing year. I have no doubt that Lucious could be a valuable, productive player, but I just don't see that one year being worth it. Comparing him to Jackson is just silly. Jackson put up 12/7 and 11/7 in his sophomore and junior years at Mississippi State. Lucious' 6.5 ppg and 4 apg just don't warrant two years of scholarship play. Unless we were talking about a guy who could come in and average 13 ppg, 6 apg, and 3 rpg, it wouldn't be worth it. He's done nothing to indicate he could do that, and frankly done nothing to indicate he'd be any better than Cadougan.
Quote from: The Sultan of South Wayne on February 05, 2011, 03:00:58 PM
See I agree with this. That means that if we award our final 2011 scholarship, we would have none left for 2012. IOW, someone would have to transfer, or someone would have to be Newbilled, for us to take the likes of Tokoto.
I don't agree that we should take him.
We still have 2 left for next year (2011) and 1 for the following year (2012).
Right, but that means if Lucious takes one, and we offer the remaining 2011 scholarship, we have no more available for any additional 2012 graduate. Someone would have to either not show or transfer.
A no-brainer to take as a walk-on. Stupid, stupid, stupid to give a scholarship.
Quote from: chapman on February 05, 2011, 04:36:25 PM
A no-brainer to take as a walk-on. Stupid, stupid, stupid to give a scholarship.
No chance he is going anywhere with out a scholie. If that happened it would really be fantastic...
Quote from: The Sultan of South Wayne on February 05, 2011, 04:35:41 PM
Right, but that means if Lucious takes one, and we offer the remaining 2011 scholarship, we have no more available for any additional 2012 graduate. Someone would have to either not show or transfer.
Yeah and his name was Reggie Smith. For 2011 we lose Buycks, Butler, Fulce and Smith, with Anderson and D.Wilson coming in, so there are still 2 spots open. For 2012 we lose DJO and Crowder with Ferguson coming in, so 1 spot is still open. Lucious would only take one of the 2011 spots. We would still have 1 more for 2011 and 1 for Tokoto in 2012.
Quote from: Litehouse on February 05, 2011, 05:02:26 PM
Yeah and his name was Reggie Smith. For 2011 we lose Buycks, Butler, Fulce and Smith, with Anderson and D.Wilson coming in, so there are still 2 spots open. For 2012 we lose DJO and Crowder with Ferguson coming in, so 1 spot is still open. Lucious would only take one of the 2011 spots. We would still have 1 more for 2011 and 1 for Tokoto in 2012.
So your saying he's a walk on in 2012? Or did you forget he has to sit out 2011 and play in 2012. Costing a scholie both of those years...
Don't get the logic behind the Lucious interest. Really have to question Buzz' judgment on this move.
Quote from: chren21 on February 05, 2011, 05:06:00 PM
So your saying he's a walk on in 2012? Or did you forget he has to sit out 2011 and play in 2012. Costing a scholie both of those years...
Check the scholarship table
http://www.muscoop.com/index.php?page=8
Quote from: Boone on February 05, 2011, 05:12:17 PM
Don't get the logic behind the Lucious interest. Really have to question Buzz' judgment on this move.
I think it would be a bad move, but I'll withhold judgment on Buzz's judgment for now. Just because the kid says he plans to visit his hometown school doesn't mean there's an offer on the table.
Quote from: Litehouse on February 05, 2011, 05:13:53 PM
Check the scholarship table
http://www.muscoop.com/index.php?page=8
You are correct.
Quote from: VanderBabyBlue on February 05, 2011, 03:03:25 PM
A pothead, drunk-driving, thief (allegedly). This would be a very embarrassing move and would make me really question Buzz's judge of character.
+1
what? no Junior College rapists out there? Everybody aboard the slippery slope ride to Hugginsville.
Quote from: Pakuni on February 05, 2011, 05:18:11 PM
I think it would be a bad move, but I'll withhold judgment on Buzz's judgment for now. Just because the kid says he plans to visit his hometown school doesn't mean there's an offer on the table.
+1
Earlier I said he is worth a look and I still believe this to be the case. If he wants to get on Buzz's schedule and come to Milwaukee, that is fine.
If Buzz wants to take a flyer on him, I'll trust Buzz. But Buzz should explain himself if he decides to do this.
Worth a look in my opinion. Something that has not been mentioned is how valuable he would be push guys like Junior, Vander, and Derrick Wilson even in his sit-out year. Those guys would be grinding every day with someone that's been to the Final Four and run the point there. Similar situation right now with Jamil Wilson, he is not on the floor but I guarantee he is valuable to the team by his contributions in practice. Of course I'd like some 6'10" beast or another JUCO All star that could contribute immediately, but Lucious is not a 'project' on the basketball court. He is groomed and ready to play at the highest level. It will be interesting to see where this goes!!
I am shocked that no one has yet mentioned the gross injustice that the USA Today article fails to mention Scott Christopherson!!!
Quote from: Litehouse on February 05, 2011, 05:02:26 PM
Yeah and his name was Reggie Smith. For 2011 we lose Buycks, Butler, Fulce and Smith, with Anderson and D.Wilson coming in, so there are still 2 spots open. For 2012 we lose DJO and Crowder with Ferguson coming in, so 1 spot is still open. Lucious would only take one of the 2011 spots. We would still have 1 more for 2011 and 1 for Tokoto in 2012.
I stand corrected. Thank you for pointing out my wrong-ness.
And as I think about it, it may not be the worst idea ever. Although a back court of Junior, Blue and Lucious lacks a little offense.
Quote from: Litehouse on February 05, 2011, 05:02:26 PM
Yeah and his name was Reggie Smith. For 2011 we lose Buycks, Butler, Fulce and Smith, with Anderson and D.Wilson coming in, so there are still 2 spots open. For 2012 we lose DJO and Crowder with Ferguson coming in, so 1 spot is still open. Lucious would only take one of the 2011 spots. We would still have 1 more for 2011 and 1 for Tokoto in 2012.
The problem is we'd still need two schollies for big men. No, I am not delusional. As far as I know Gods Gift (whatever he last name is) is still available from JC for next year's class. And MU is reported to be in the hunt for several bigs in 2012: Jarnell Stokes, 6'8" 250 lbs from Memphis, Phillip Nolan 6'10" 205 lbs from St. Benedict's in NJ who is from the Milwaukee area, and Skylar Spencer from California. I suppose Tokoto could be considered a big (at least at MU), but he's a longshot, and how long is he going to stay in college anyway?
KenPom ...
http://kenpom.com/blog/index.php/weblog/how_much_is_korie_lucious_worth/
How much is Korie Lucious worth?
02.04.11
I wanted the premise of this piece to be that people were thinking the Spartans could really use Korie Lucious about now. It turns out almost nobody is making that case. However, there's still the notion that for tourney purposes, Michigan State must now be judged without Lucious, which in this case is unfair.
Tom Izzo kicked Korie Lucious off the team on January 25 and Michigan State's results have looked like this since:
L Michigan 61-57 (Home)
W Indiana 84-83 (Home, OT)
L Iowa 72-52 (Road)
The temptation is to say Michigan State is a different team without Lucious playing alongside Kalin Lucas. No doubt the three poor performances against teams in the bottom half of the Big Ten, two of them at home, do not speak well for the post-Lucious era, but the absence of Lucious probably has little to do with this.
It's difficult to determine how much Lucious is worth, but to get an idea I though it would be a good idea to look at the Vegas lines for the past three games.
Vegas:
Michigan -10
Indiana -10
Iowa -5
If you do the math, Michigan State has underperformed the Vegas prediction by an average of 16 points per game. Of course, it's preposterous to suggest Lucious is worth 16 points per game. (Technically, you could conclude he's worth even more since the lines are already trying to take into account his absence.) I'll venture it's pretty unlikely that he's worth even three.
To get an idea of the worth of Lucious, let's first examine an extreme case. I'm not sure which college player is the most valuable to his team, but among name teams Jimmer Fredette is a reasonable choice. Not only is Fredette an uber-efficient high-volume shooter, but unlike last season, BYU doesn't have a viable back-up at the point. If BYU lost Fredette, where would they be ranked?
It's a completely subjective question. Personally, I think they would be no worse than somewhere in the 40's. The difference between the 10th best team and the 45th best team is about eight points. To be worth ten points, BYU would have to be about 70th. That seems low to me, but we're just guessing here. At any rate, the most valuable player in America is worth at most ten points.
With each passing dud, it gets more difficult to believe that the absence of Lucious is not having some impact. But I'd like to get back to those Vegas spreads. Here's what my system has forecast for those three games, keeping in mind that unlike Vegas, my system isn't nearly as quick to react to roster changes.
Pomeroy:
Michigan -9
Indiana -8
Iowa -3
In every case the Vegas spread has been more optimistic about the Spartans than my Lucious-influenced predictions. This mirrors the tendency of the last three games that Lucious played - the Vegas prediction was about a point more optimistic than mine. I only invoke Vegas because it's the most accurate predictive system available. (The average error of the Vegas spread is about nine points, better than any computer rating.) And it hasn't flinched in the absence of Lucious, even after two ugly performances.
That leads me to believe that the poor play has nothing to do with Lucious, and unless Tom Izzo has lost his team, the Spartans will surely play better - and probably much better relative to their last three efforts - the rest of the way. Their problems going forward will have little to do with Keith Appling being forced into the starting lineup or Mike Kebler getting more minutes and more to do with a rather difficult closing stretch of games. When it comes to getting an at-large bid, folks shouldn't apply any more weight to the Spartans' February and March level of play than they do for any other team, because talent-wise, they're not much different.
Litehouse, did I miss something, who is Ferguson? I only was aware of Juan Anderson and Derrick Wilson coming in..
I did miss something
Quote from: MU B2002 on February 06, 2011, 09:14:39 AM
Litehouse, did I miss something, who is Ferguson? I only was aware of Juan Anderson and Derrick Wilson coming in..
Jamal Ferguson, class of 2012
http://www.muscoop.com/index.php?topic=23572.0
My bad, thanks. Guess I missed that thread
Quote from: The Sultan of South Wayne on February 05, 2011, 02:58:35 PM
Was this supposed to be in teal? Or do you really think a walk-on transfer from High Point is a better option than someone with 2.5 years of B10 basketball under his belt.
Could be.
Singleton will have a year of practice with the team under his belt. He is familiar with things the team does. And will be even more so by the time Lucious is eligible.
I wouldn't rule it out entirely.
You could also make the case to treat his High Point experience as being akin to going the JuCo route. We've had some really good players from that world.
As far as his walk-on status, none of has any particular information as to what he and Marquette agreed to in transferring here. I could speculate beyond this, but it'd be just that - speculation. And the internet is not the place to speculate on anything.
All things being equal, I don't want him. Nods and winks from East Lansing say he violated his parole from drunk driving with recreational pharmaceuticals. Not what we need.
Quote from: T-Bone on February 06, 2011, 12:15:51 PM
Could be.
Singleton will have a year of practice with the team under his belt. He is familiar with things the team does. And will be even more so by the time Lucious is eligible.
I wouldn't rule it out entirely.
You could also make the case to treat his High Point experience as being akin to going the JuCo route. We've had some really good players from that world.
As far as his walk-on status, none of has any particular information as to what he and Marquette agreed to in transferring here. I could speculate beyond this, but it'd be just that - speculation. And the internet is not the place to speculate on anything.
TeeBoner:
Every Warrior fan throughout the world better hope Singleton is not Buzz' answer at the point. Let get real here and its no knock against the kid. Big time programs stay big time only with better talent than him.
:'( ;)We don't need to spend a scholarship on Lucious. Singleton would be sufficient. If we take Lucious, then why did we get Wilson to commit. I want Wilson. WE NEED GOOD BIGS!!!!!!!
Quote from: 4everwarriors on February 06, 2011, 12:31:19 PM
TeeBoner:
Every Warrior fan throughout the world better hope Singleton is not Buzz' answer at the point. Let get real here and its no knock against the kid. Big time programs stay big time only with better talent than him.
I don't think (and hope not) Buzz has his eggs in that basket. But more toward the point I was making, I think Singleton could be a contributor with the additional experience he would have over Lucious. I would rather we got some one for the full 4 (or 2 or 3), so they have time to develop and learn the system.
Lucious could be interesting as he'll have a year of practice with the team before he's eligible. But from what I've read his character could be a question mark (who knows where his head's at) and his stats haven't been that impressive against a similar level of competition. Would he be an upgrade at that (or the) point? I have my doubts. Cadougan has done nothing but get better as the season has progressed. And D. Wilson
may be the perfect person to spell him. With the outside possibility of Singleton as an alternate. I don't think Singleton is the common walk-on that we have known.
TeeBoner?? I was wondering why I get aroused every time out or technical. Now it makes sense...
What has Singleton done that leads you to believe that he is anything but a lower level player? He wasn't particularly impressive at High Point. He wasn't recruited by high-level programs. Lucious OTOH was a high level recruit and the starting point guard on a Final Four team. If you are thinking of pure basketball talent, Lucious is miles ahead of Singleton.
We need one very good PG, who can dish it to the right people in situations, have little better than average shot, quickness and speed with leadership and a steady backup who won't hurt you. Not five different PG's, when in the game play five different ways and screw up the offense.
Really I don't know much about Singleton. Experience within a program is invaluable though. And there's been tons of really good players that were ultimately not recruited by high-major programs.
It is entirely based on a feeling. At the same time Lucious doesn't give me a good feeling.
Hope I'm right, but who knows.
Quote from: The Sultan of South Wayne on February 06, 2011, 12:59:55 PM
What has Singleton done that leads you to believe that he is anything but a lower level player? He wasn't particularly impressive at High Point. He wasn't recruited by high-level programs. Lucious OTOH was a high level recruit and the starting point guard on a Final Four team. If you are thinking of pure basketball talent, Lucious is miles ahead of Singleton.
I don't think Singleton will be the answer, but I still don't see why we need Lucious for one year. Let's look at what we know about Lucious...
- Questionable character, kicked off MSU team for violations
- Has never averaged more than 6.5 ppg or 4.1 apg, both less than the much-maligned Dwight Buycks has put up this season (though close on assists)
- Will take up 2 scholarship years for one playing year, and will possibly prevent us from pursuing the likes of Tokoto, Nolan, Stokes, and possibly even a guy like Koenig in 2013
We don't know how productive he will be. His statistical trend would probably indicate he'd give us 8 ppg and 5 apg. Is it worth handing out 2 years of scholarships for those numbers? Possibly losing out on even more talented recruits who would give us four years of playing time? And at the same time, we have the character issues. Why bring in a guy who could cause problems and upset the great chemistry Buzz has built?
Bottom line, the upside is minimal and the potential downsides are immense. I can't see any logical argument as to why we would want to bring Lucious to our program. Nothing against the kid personally, but it just doesn't add up.
KL got his team to the Final Four last year. Showed some big stones.
Considering what we've done with blown leads the last two seasons, it may be nice to get a winner in the program for two years.
Remember, when Crean brought in Acker a lot of people called it the dumbest move in America and that it showed no confidence in his current stable of horses. The strange ones sometimes work out.
Quote from: T-Bone on February 06, 2011, 12:15:51 PM
Could be.
Singleton will have a year of practice with the team under his belt. He is familiar with things the team does. And will be even more so by the time Lucious is eligible.
I wouldn't rule it out entirely.
You could also make the case to treat his High Point experience as being akin to going the JuCo route. We've had some really good players from that world.
As far as his walk-on status, none of has any particular information as to what he and Marquette agreed to in transferring here. I could speculate beyond this, but it'd be just that - speculation. And the internet is not the place to speculate on anything.
This is 100% wrong. Singleton is the new Frozena. He will only see the floor in the final few minutes of a blow out. This means OOC games and DePaul. Nothing more than that.
To compare him to a point guard that played 24 minutes in a final four game is to suggest you don't understand basketball.
Quote from: The Golden Avalanche on February 06, 2011, 02:07:22 PM
KL got his team to the Final Four last year. Showed some big stones.
Considering what we've done with blown leads the last two seasons, it may be nice to get a winner in the program for two years.
Remember, when Crean brought in Acker a lot of people called it the dumbest move in America and that it showed no confidence in his current stable of horses. The strange ones sometimes work out.
I think most thought the Acker transfer was a good one. Proved to be so.
Quote from: Nukem2 on February 06, 2011, 02:42:22 PM
I think most thought the Acker transfer was a good one. Proved to be so.
Revisionist history ... I remember most thinking about him along with Brandon Bell, James Mathews, Niv Berkowitz and other forgettable signings.
Quote from: AnotherMU84 on February 06, 2011, 02:19:08 PM
This is 100% wrong. Singleton is the new Frozena. He will only see the floor in the final few minutes of a blow out. This means OOC games and DePaul. Nothing more than that.
To compare him to a point guard that played 24 minutes in a final four game is to suggest you don't understand basketball.
Sure, I'll take the bait. (semantics argument at the end)
Really? Don't. Understand. Basketball.
So tell me, one that does understand basketball, what is it that makes you so certain of that?
And Lucious played 36(38) minutes with 4 assists to 5 turnovers.
100% wrong? Singleton won't have a year's more experience under his belt? You can't draw a comparison between JuCo and a school like High Point? Perhaps it was the statements "could be" or "I wouldn't rule it out"? Not sure how either of those could be wrong as they are not facts.
Edited to add a question mark.
Quote from: T-Bone on February 06, 2011, 03:10:23 PM
Sure, I'll take the bait. (semantics argument at the end)
Really? Don't. Understand. Basketball.
So tell me, one that does understand basketball, what is it that makes you so certain of that?
And Lucious played 36(38) minutes with 4 assists to 5 turnovers.
100% wrong? Singleton won't have a year's more experience under his belt? You can't draw a comparison between JuCo and a school like High Point? Perhaps it was the statements "could be" or "I wouldn't rule it out"? Not sure how either of those could be wrong as they are not facts.
Edited to add a question mark.
So, using this logic you expect Ewill to start next year? He'll have three year of experience under his belt.
Singleton is probably a nice guy and hard worker but their is a reason he is paying to be on the team as opposed to getting a scholarship.
Quote from: AnotherMU84 on February 06, 2011, 03:28:56 PM
So, using this logic you expect Ewill to start next year? He'll have three year of experience under his belt.
Singleton is probably a nice guy and hard worker but their is a reason he is paying to be on the team as opposed to getting a scholarship.
That's quite a jump in logic you're making there. No, I don't expect Ewill to start next year by virtue of entering into his 3rd year - though he could and it'd be a hell of a surprise.
Which isn't the point of anything I've said. The discussion point I raised is that Singleton *could* be better than Lucious having an additional year of experience in Buzz's system.
Singleton could be paying his way for a myriad of reasons. None of which either of us knows.
If it were a debate of you had to take either Lucious or Singleton on a scholarship, I, and I think everyone else, would take Lucious. That's in a vacuum though. Singleton's paying his way, Lucious may have some problems and his numbers for the year were ugly and we'd have to use a scholarship for him being on the practice squad next year.
So, we'll see what happens.
Quote from: NickelDimer on February 05, 2011, 02:00:12 PM
What if getting kicked off MSU was a wakeup call? And if it was what if he recommits himself to being the best person and bball player he can over the next year? There's no doubt about his talent, it's his decision making that's been in question.
If you can get a focused, commited year out of a kid with his talent, it could be huge.
What if it wasn't? What if he doesn't?
As far as I'm concerned, his upside doesn't justify the risk. We'd be using two years of scholarship for a "one-and-done" that hasn't shown all that much. I'm very confident that Buzz can find a better use for that scholarship.
Quote from: T-Bone on February 06, 2011, 03:50:47 PM
The discussion point I raised is that Singleton *could* be better than Lucious having an additional year of experience in Buzz's system.
Well a lot of things *could* happen. The Bradley Center roof could collapse tomorrow. I think I am more interested in knowing what would likely happen.
Despite his problems, Izzo wouldn't have dismissed Lucious if he thought he really needed him. If they are having this bad a season and decided to cut bait, I don't see what we really hope to gain by adding a floor general for one year who has been unimpressive up to this point.
Quote from: AnotherMU84 on February 06, 2011, 03:28:56 PM
So, using this logic you expect Ewill to start next year? He'll have three year of experience under his belt.
EWill started at the beginning of the season this year.
(and scored our first points of the season, i believe)
Quote from: AnotherMU84 on February 06, 2011, 03:00:33 PM
Revisionist history ... I remember most thinking about him along with Brandon Bell, James Mathews, Niv Berkowitz and other forgettable signings.
Think you are the one with revisionist history. Most thought Acker was a good backup plan for DJ and also a stabilizing factor for his high school teammate McNeal. Remember, Acker was frosh of the year in the MAC. He was not chopped meat.
To me he is very similar to Dwight Buycks. A combo guard playing the point who turns it over too often. I don't think he's worth two years of scholarship for one year of play.
Quote from: AnotherMU84 on February 06, 2011, 03:00:33 PM
Revisionist history ... I remember most thinking about him along with Brandon Bell, James Mathews, Niv Berkowitz and other forgettable signings.
HEY!!!!Get off my back!
And I don't recall any mass majority of people saying the Acker signing was a bad deal. A lot of people thought he was small and shot poorly, but he was a good field general and thought it'd be a good compliment having Jerel's buddy on the team. I'm sure some thought it wasn't good, but I don't recall anyone on these boards going ape over signing Acker.
This move? I wouldn't like this move at all. It'd be like grasping for straws with an unknown Israeli PG who has little-to-know experience versus competition of this caliber.
Quote from: Nukem2 on February 07, 2011, 09:22:52 AM
Think you are the one with revisionist history. Most thought Acker was a good backup plan for DJ and also a stabilizing factor for his high school teammate McNeal. Remember, Acker was frosh of the year in the MAC. He was not chopped meat.
I remember people saying he was far too small and slight to compete in the Big East, even in a reserve role; that his stats were inflated playing in a watered down league; and that the only reason he was accepted was because Crean had promised a player he'd look out for his good friend if possible (which happened with Buckley).
Added together and there was a contingent who thought bringing him in was a waste of four years when MU was "in on" so many high profile PG prospects (which is an eerily familiar theme in this discussion).
Quote from: StillAWarrior on February 07, 2011, 07:17:33 AM
What if it wasn't? What if he doesn't?
Easy, then you don't extend an offer. Buzz's job in this process will be to evaluate where KL is at emotionally, mentally, etc.
Quote from: NickelDimer on February 07, 2011, 10:21:39 AM
Easy, then you don't extend an offer. Buzz's job in this process will be to evaluate where KL is at emotionally, mentally, etc.
Fair enough...there's a bit of guess work in all recruiting, so this would be no different.
That said, I still think the two year scholarship/one year play trade-off isn't worth it.
Quote from: StillAWarrior on February 07, 2011, 10:41:55 AM
Fair enough...there's a bit of guess work in all recruiting, so this would be no different.
That said, I still think the two year scholarship/one year play trade-off isn't worth it.
Yeah, this certainly is not a no-brainer. If he's genuinely interested in coming to MU Buzz is going to have a very tough decision.
Can't we go after Larry Drew instead?
Quote from: NickelDimer on February 07, 2011, 10:44:15 AM
Yeah, this certainly is not a no-brainer. If he's genuinely interested in coming to MU Buzz is going to have a very tough decision.
I'm pretty firmly in the other camp...I think it's a very easy decision for Buzz. I absolutely don't think he should take him. As a general matter, I'm not a big fan of one-and-done players -- even if they only use a scholarship for one year. However, I'd make an exception when they're John Wall-type talents coming out of HS (assuming there are not character concerns). I really am hard-pressed to think of a situation when I'd be willing to trade two years of scholarship for a one-and-done. Lucious is not even close, in my opinion (even if he has recommitted himself).
Quote from: StillAWarrior on February 07, 2011, 11:06:25 AM
I really am hard-pressed to think of a situation when I'd be willing to trade two years of scholarship for a one-and-done.
Robert Jackson was definately worth it. I would have traded four years of scholarship for his senior year.
Quote from: The Sultan of South Wayne on February 07, 2011, 11:10:40 AM
Robert Jackson was definately worth it. I would have traded four years of scholarship for his senior year.
I can't argue with that. These things are much, much easier in hindsight...especially if the player was the "missing piece" for a FF run.
Quote from: The Golden Avalanche on February 06, 2011, 02:07:22 PM
Remember, when Crean brought in Acker a lot of people called it the dumbest move in America and that it showed no confidence in his current stable of horses. The strange ones sometimes work out.
Acker was brought in to be a 5-10 minute a game guy backing up James for two years, then be a 5-10 minute a game back up for the guy that replaced James (Tyshawn Taylor) for one year. By definition calling any decision about a player brought in to be a benchwarmer/backup the "dumbest move in America" or a no confidence vote on our starters is basketball stupid.
Quote from: Niv Berkowitz on February 07, 2011, 09:30:35 AM
HEY!!!!Get off my back!
I4 definately doesn't get enough sh!t from us about the Niv signing. that needs to change.
The problem is having only 3 scholarships for the next two years. If you are not able to pick up Todd Mayo then maybe
Korie can grab one of the two schoolies left this year. You have to know where you stand with your 2012 players as well.
One left, so I do not see Korie getting that one, secondly do you really need 13 players on your team? Buzz only plays
9, that will not change. I think you only need 11 or 12 tops per year, otherwise transfers will be order.
Quote from: The Sultan of South Wayne on February 07, 2011, 11:10:40 AM
Robert Jackson was definately worth it. I would have traded four years of scholarship for his senior year.
I think we did given the lackluster seasons in 03-04, and 04-05 (plus his redshirt and playing year).
Quote from: The Sultan of South Wayne on February 07, 2011, 11:10:40 AMRobert Jackson was definately worth it. I would have traded four years of scholarship for his senior year.
But at least Jackson showed the promise. He was a 12/7 player before he came to Marquette. Lucious hasn't put up anywhere near those numbers.
If it was a guy like Bryce Cartwright from Iowa, averaging 11 ppg and 5.5 apg in a power conference, then I think he would be worth a look. I'd even say it'd be worth looking at a guy like Hank Thorns at TCU, averaging 10 ppg and 6.4 apg. Despite being in a smaller conference, he's put up numbers worth looking at, and you could realistically expect either of those guys to put up 10-13 ppg and 6-7 apg as a senior, which are numbers good enough to be among the top of point guards in the Big East.
Lucious simply doesn't have those numbers. He may have been a consensus top 100 recruit, but he hasn't proven to be anywhere near that valuable as an actual player in his 2.5 years at MSU, and that's not even accounting for the character issues that got him kicked off the team.
Hmmm, not a fan of this quote at all. Translation: I have one more year to audition for scouts.
Quote"I've got one more year to show what I can do. This is my last go-around," Lucious said. "I've just got to find the right place where I come in and be able to show my talents."
http://www.jsonline.com/sports/goldeneagles/115398264.html (http://www.jsonline.com/sports/goldeneagles/115398264.html)
NM
Singleton does not have Buyckes' offensive ability, but he has better point guard skills and a higher basketball IQ. This years team could use another bigman, but what it really needs is Travis Diener, Dominic James, Tony Miller, etc..
Former Michigan State guard Korie Lucious is transferring to Iowa State and will continue his college basketball career playing under Fred Hoiberg, a source told CBSSports.com on Wednesday.
Tom Izzo dismissed Lucious from Michgian State in late January for what was described as conduct detrimental to the program. Lucious visited Iowa State in February and will now join former teammate Chris Allen -- who left Michigan State in the preseason -- as a member of the Cyclones.
Lucious was averaging 6.5 points and 4.1 assists at the time of his dismissal.
Quote from: radome on March 02, 2011, 04:31:59 PM
Former Michigan State guard Korie Lucious is transferring to Iowa State and will continue his college basketball career playing under Fred Hoiberg, a source told CBSSports.com on Wednesday.
Tom Izzo dismissed Lucious from Michgian State in late January for what was described as conduct detrimental to the program. Lucious visited Iowa State in February and will now join former teammate Chris Allen -- who left Michigan State in the preseason -- as a member of the Cyclones.
Lucious was averaging 6.5 points and 4.1 assists at the time of his dismissal.
Lucious, Allen, Royce White.
Ames is becoming the Island of Misfit Toys.
Quote from: Pakuni on March 02, 2011, 04:43:23 PM
Lucious, Allen, Royce White.
Ames is becoming the Island of Misfit Toys.
+1000
This made me laugh out loud, literally. Glad this rumor is over. Lucious was never a good fit here. I'd much rather see us ink Todd Mayo 8-)
Maybe not Lucious ... but If Tyshawn Taylor was going to transfer, would you go for him? (I realize it looks like he won't transfer, just trying to gauge how good they have to be to tie up two year for one.
Quote from: AnotherMU84 on March 02, 2011, 04:50:43 PM
Maybe not Lucious ... but If Tyshawn Taylor was going to transfer, would you go for him? (I realize it looks like he won't transfer, just trying to gauge how good they have to be to tie up two year for one.
Is he transferring to Arkansas?
I'd take him as a walk on for two years. Otherwise its not worth it for all the reasons already mentioned.
Lucious is transferring to Arkansas in time for Buzz to move and coach him?
Listening to ESPN radio and they just reported that Luscious is transferring to Iowa State. What a shock!
With Fred Hoiberg at the helm I thought we would see a more traditional looking line-up at ISU. What the hell is going on?
Quote from: Doris Burkes Thong on March 02, 2011, 10:29:34 PM
With Fred Hoiberg at the helm I thought we would see a more traditional looking line-up at ISU. What the hell is going on?
Hopefully (for ISU), nothing more than short term roster patching.