http://www.foxsportswisconsin.com/02/03/11/JP-Tokoto-on-possibility-of-Marquette-ge/landing.html?blockID=403733&feedID=5059
"Coach Buzz, he's an awesome guy. I love coach Buzz," Tokoto said as he began to chuckle. "He always says what he thinks and that's a positive because you don't want a coach telling you lies and just misleading you about anything. He says what's on his mind and he tells the truth.
"He's just a great guy. He seems like a great coach in practice. He's cool, he's calm and he's collected. He actually coaches his guys. He doesn't just yell at them, scream at them and tell them what they're doing wrong. He's positive. I love the way he coaches. I just love Coach as a guy."
So you're saying there's a chance JP?
That's why I thought that top 5 list was bunk from the get-go. He, and his family, have spent a lot of time around MU for them to be ruled out.
Love that they were next to Juan at the Syracuse game.
suppose I also owe you a hat tip for the original tweet of that article. Thought it should be shared too
You forgot to quote this part ...
In the meantime, Tokoto has attended several Marquette home games this season, including the Jan. 29 win over Syracuse.
The "home vibe" that Marquette provides is just one part of what makes it an enticing possibility when making his decision.
"The pros definitely do stick out," Tokoto said. "It's close to home, it's a great program and they play in one of the toughest conferences in the nation. It's less than 20 minutes away from where I live at. It still feels like home even when I go down there to play open gym or just go watch practice or go watch a game."
[snip]
Recently, Tokoto spoke on the phone with the No. 1 pick in the 2010 NBA Draft, John Wall. Wall played one season at Kentucky before exiting for the pros.
The conversation was set up by Trimble, who spoke with Wall during a recent Marquette game. Wall was in town to face the Milwaukee Bucks the next night.
"I was having a little problem with playing down to my competition's level for a game, wasn't playing as hard as I should have been, which I've fixed," Tokoto said. "(Wall and I) talked about always just bringing it because you never know who's watching. You never know if it's their first time watching or their last time watching. You've always got to bring your 'A' game no matter who you're playing.
"That was pretty inspirational," he said with a laugh.
---
Again can we put to rest the BS on this board that our fans and/or the BC are a disadvantage. JP doesn't think so. Further I'm guessing he's OK with all the well heeled alum (read "fat old white guys") sitting in the good seats and is not stressed out about how home game fans "look" on TV.
Also, as I have repeatedly said, a Brandon Jennings and/or John Wall counts for way more to a potential recruit than stupid organized chants by the student section. It seems to matter to JP.
Buzz, want your top recruit next year? Schedule a home game the day before the Heat plays in Milwaukee and ask D Wade to bring Lebron to the game and sit your recruit between them.
Lastly, I'm sure DJO's relationship with John Wall helped JP get a call into him.
Your move Roy.
That Bron...Wade thing...damn. That can SERIOUSLY lure in WHOMEVER MU wants.
Imagine being a prepster and then touring the Al when you see Wade and Bron shooting around. You get to shake hands, talk shop, get signatures, and play a "friendly" game of HORSE.
Priceless.
Back to the Tokoto quote... sounds like a little of Buzz is rubbing off on him: "I just love Coach as a guy."
Totally something Buzz would say.
... and then a followup call from Doc Rivers telling him how great Marquette is, but the recruit has to put him on hold to take Wes' call where he explains how Buzz was a major reason he is the highest paid second year player in the NBA.
Quote from: AnotherMU84 on February 03, 2011, 11:00:03 PM
... and then a followup call from Doc Rivers telling him how great Marquette is, but the recruit has to put him on hold to take Wes' call where he explains how Buzz was a major reason he is the highest paid second year player in the NBA.
That would be a major recruiting violation....in case you're not kidding....
Quote from: texaswarrior74 on February 03, 2011, 11:20:10 PM
That would be a major recruiting violation....in case you're not kidding....
Well, not if they "happen" to call Buzz while the recruit is in his office. Right?
The biggest bump was meeting Juan Anderson at the game. I know it is hard in a two hour environment
to get a feel for each other, but this summer, if Juan does come to summer school, they can figure out
each others game and see if they can have fun playing together. As Al stated, players recruit players.
I still see it as a long shot, but you never know. Mike Shaw seemed to like Buzz as well. It does not seem
JP has as many handlers as Shaw had. The other issue that is important to any recruit is playing time. It
seems that Otule will be around in 2 years at center, with Wilson at one forward, the other forward will be
a wide open race with many hands wanting it. The best player will win, do you want to compete or be given
the starting spot, that will not happen. Everybody thought Vander would be starting, the rumor was that Buzz
stated to him, the starting spot was his, not. Even at the Pro-Am, you could tell Vander was not as good as
Jimmy, DJO or Dwight.
Quote from: texaswarrior74 on February 03, 2011, 11:20:10 PM
That would be a major recruiting violation....in case you're not kidding....
Maybe as I laid it out, but their are ways to make it happen legally (if it is deemed helpful). You think the John Wall call to JP happened all by itself and the fact that DJO is such god friends with Wall that he came to the DePaul game is merely a coincidence?
The difference is that Rivers is on the MU Board of Trustees. John Wall has no connection to the MU program. My guess is that Wall was talking up Kentucky anyways.
Not to mention that North Carolina doesn't have any former players in the same stratosphere as Doc Rivers and Wesley Matthews! ;)
Let's just calm down on that front.
To AnotherMU84 - loved your comments. Would love to see JP play for Marquette. A lot of our problems that we are experiencing this year will go away if we have great players on the team. It will be a great boost to hear JP say that he is going to Marquette!
Quote from: msbjim on February 04, 2011, 09:14:35 AM
To AnotherMU84 - loved your comments. Would love to see JP play for Marquette. A lot of our problems that we are experiencing this year will go away if we have great players on the team. It will be a great boost to hear JP say that he is going to Marquette!
100% disagree.
Quote from: MerrittsMustache on February 04, 2011, 08:55:11 AM
Not to mention that North Carolina doesn't have any former players in the same stratosphere as Doc Rivers and Wesley Matthews! ;)
Let's just calm down on that front.
I hear what your saying but Wesley is not a former player, unless something happened this morning I missed.
Now I'm not trying to diminish UNC (OK I am) but the hottest player in the NBA is D Wade. LeBron does what Wade tells him to do. One of the hottest second year players is Wes. The hottest coach in the NBA might be Doc.
Now UNC has more bodies in the NBA, but none of them have this kind of start power. UNC has more old guys that played in the NBA but 18/19 year old kids don't care about old guys. Larry Brown does not get High School seniors attention like Doc.
Look we have advantage on this front. Exploit it!
Quote from: reinko on February 04, 2011, 09:40:38 AM
100% disagree.
Yes. The problems with have with defense is a coaching issue. We played much better defense under Crean and O'Neill, and their teams were arguably less talented.
Quote from: The Sultan of South Wayne on February 04, 2011, 09:59:20 AM
Yes. The problems with have with defense is a coaching issue. We played much better defense under Crean and O'Neill, and their teams were arguably less talented.
Sure its not fact that we have played more top 10 teams in the last month than we did in the five years combined under O'Neill?
Quote from: AnotherMU84 on February 04, 2011, 10:02:50 AM
Sure its not fact that we have played more top 10 teams in the last month than we did in the five years combined under O'Neill?
Positive. The problems with Buzz and defense have been well documented...furthermore if you compare Crean's BE schedule and Buzz's, they are about the same and Crean's teams played way better defensively.
So Crean is a defensive Guru and Buzz is an offensive Guru. So, if Crean stayed and Buzz was still an assistant, he would have the best of both worlds and MU would number #1 this week, not OSU?
Quote from: AnotherMU84 on February 04, 2011, 10:32:14 AM
So Crean is a defensive Guru and Buzz is an offensive Guru. So, if Crean stayed and Buzz was still an assistant, he would have the best of both worlds and MU would number #1 this week, not OSU?
I have no idea. I just know that our defense needs to be better and I place most of the blame for the problems at Buzz's feet. Either he is teaching poor schemes or he is not getting good schemes across to his players.
It isn't a question of player talent.
James, was a much better defender than anyone we have at the PG, and that kind of sets or D back. I think it has more to do with personal then anything. Crean's team that was down 20 at half to Kansas was not a great Def team at least that day. The next year when Travis went down they lost to W Mich and looked like a Div 3 team.
The one thing I will say is we at times play great D for 25-30 seconds and then allow them to break us down or foul late in the shot clock. I think this is a problem with most teams. Its hard to play great d for 35 seconds. I would say coming out of Timeouts on last possesion plays we have been terrible, and Buzz really needs to work on that. Against Wash he under played there best player, against Ville he overplayed him.
Quote from: kmwtrucks on February 04, 2011, 10:40:55 AM
The one thing I will say is we at times play great D for 25-30 seconds and then allow them to break us down or foul late in the shot clock. I think this is a problem with most teams. Its hard to play great d for 35 seconds.
This is a cop out. The shot clock is no longer for MU's defense than it is for any other team in college basketball, yet we are a poor defensive team.
Quote from: kmwtrucks on February 04, 2011, 10:40:55 AM
James, was a much better defender than anyone we have at the PG, and that kind of sets or D back. I think it has more to do with personal then anything. Crean's team that was down 20 at half to Kansas was not a great Def team at least that day. The next year when Travis went down they lost to W Mich and looked like a Div 3 team.
The one thing I will say is we at times play great D for 25-30 seconds and then allow them to break us down or foul late in the shot clock. I think this is a problem with most teams. Its hard to play great d for 35 seconds. I would say coming out of Timeouts on last possesion plays we have been terrible, and Buzz really needs to work on that. Against Wash he under played there best player, against Ville he overplayed him.
According to Pomeroy, the 2003 team was #1 in offensive efficiency, and #101 in defensive efficiency.
2004: 42 offense, 159 defense
2005: 73 offense, 129 defense
2006: 31 offense, 54 defense
2007: 49 offense, 31 defense
2008: 24 offense, 10 defense
2009: 9 offense, 51 defense
2010: 22 offense, 57 defense
2011: 6 offense, 83 defense
some pretty good years for Crean but otherwise a mixed bag. Buzz is clearly better offensively. Regression this year on defense is concerning but 2009 and 2010 seems was likely due to lack of size. This year I'd say inexperience on the perimeter is the problem.
Quote from: AnotherMU84 on February 04, 2011, 09:56:02 AM
I hear what your saying but Wesley is not a former player, unless something happened this morning I missed.
Now I'm not trying to diminish UNC (OK I am) but the hottest player in the NBA is D Wade. LeBron does what Wade tells him to do. One of the hottest second year players is Wes. The hottest coach in the NBA
might be Doc.
Now UNC has more bodies in the NBA, but none of them have this kind of start power. UNC has more old guys that played in the NBA but 18/19 year old kids don't care about old guys. Larry Brown does not get High School seniors attention like Doc.
Look we have advantage on this front. Exploit it!
Right, and all this doesn't mean stink in recruiting.
MU for sure has defensive issues. Three big time games in the last years all were lost on lay-ups, why, because MU tries to
double team down low or plays the man so far out on the court, basically in your face D. Secondly, on the high pick and roll,
Otule and Crowder seem to pick up a cheap foul every game, that is 30 feet from the basket, that is ridiculous. Thirdly, why
not play more zone so the bigs do not get ito foul trouble?
Quote from: babytownfrolics on February 04, 2011, 10:55:04 AM
some pretty good years for Crean but otherwise a mixed bag. Buzz is clearly better offensively. Regression this year on defense is concerning but 2009 and 2010 seems was likely due to lack of size. This year I'd say inexperience on the perimeter is the problem.
Buzz has been the coach for three years. At what point do we stop making excuses for three years of poor defense (and a downward trend)?
Quote from: AnotherMU84 on February 04, 2011, 09:56:02 AM
Now UNC has more bodies in the NBA, but none of them have this kind of start power. UNC has more old guys that played in the NBA but 18/19 year old kids don't care about old guys.
Ummm, Michael Jordan anyone? I think kids still probably care about MJ.
Quote from: Henry Sugar on February 04, 2011, 11:05:58 AM
Buzz has been the coach for three years. At what point do we stop making excuses for three years of poor defense (and a downward trend)?
The point where he gets fed up with unrealistic expectations from an overly-entitled fanbase and decides to take his talents elsewhere.
Quote from: babytownfrolics on February 04, 2011, 11:08:44 AM
The point where he gets fed up with unrealistic expectations from an overly-entitled fanbase and decides to take his talents elsewhere.
Are MU fans expectations unrealistic? I like Buzz. I like what he has done and what he is doing. I just think he needs to get a better defense here because it is clearly our weak spot.
Quote from: Henry Sugar on February 04, 2011, 11:05:58 AM
Buzz has been the coach for three years. At what point do we stop making excuses for three years of poor defense (and a downward trend)?
Whether you want to use the loaded term "excuse," or simply refer to it as a "reason," I do think that the defensive issues year to year are hard to compare because the personnel has changed so much in Buzz's 3 years. Maybe the guys he has this year simply aren't very good defensively while being extremely good on offense. Maybe that will change over time once he can acclimate more 4-year players into the team. I honestly don't know, I'm just offering it as a possibility.
Quote from: babytownfrolics on February 04, 2011, 11:08:44 AM
The point where he gets fed up with unrealistic expectations from an overly-entitled fanbase and decides to take his talents elsewhere.
Buzz is awesome offensively. He recruits great talent. He represents the university well and uniquely. His defensive coaching is bad and needs improvement.
I see nothing unrealistic or entitled with recognizing both the good and bad aspects of Buzz as a coach.
Quote from: babytownfrolics on February 04, 2011, 11:14:34 AM
Whether you want to use the loaded term "excuse," or simply refer to it as a "reason," I do think that the defensive issues year to year are hard to compare because the personnel has changed so much in Buzz's 3 years. Maybe the guys he has this year simply aren't very good defensively while being extremely good on offense. Maybe that will change over time once he can acclimate more 4-year players into the team. I honestly don't know, I'm just offering it as a possibility.
I think after three years, rationalizing poor defense no longer becomes "reasons" and starts to become "excuses". For the record, here is my official perspective on defense and why I'm so concerned about it.
Until the defense improves, our ceiling is really the standard "first/second round NCAA loss". I think Buzz overemphasizes the least important aspect of defense and underemphasizes the most important aspect of defense.
http://www.crackedsidewalks.com/2011/01/is-defense-marquettes-achilles-heel.html
Quote from: babytownfrolics on February 04, 2011, 11:14:34 AM
Whether you want to use the loaded term "excuse," or simply refer to it as a "reason," I do think that the defensive issues year to year are hard to compare because the personnel has changed so much in Buzz's 3 years. Maybe the guys he has this year simply aren't very good defensively while being extremely good on offense. Maybe that will change over time once he can acclimate more 4-year players into the team. I honestly don't know, I'm just offering it as a possibility.
You also have to figure in the poor defense his team displayed at UNO, as well.
Either his scheme is fatally flawed or he cannot teach it properly.
Quote from: warriors1965 on February 04, 2011, 11:29:58 AM
You also have to figure in the poor defense his team displayed at UNO, as well.
Either his scheme is fatally flawed or he cannot teach it properly.
Crean's teams were bad on defense from 2003-2005, then much better from 2006-2008 (great in 2008). What changed? Scheme, coaching, personnel, experience? A combination of all four?
Quote from: 4everwarriors on February 04, 2011, 10:58:27 AM
Right, and all this doesn't mean stink in recruiting.
I guess you need to read the article that this thread is about ....
"
The pros definitely do stick out," Tokoto said. "It's close to home, it's a great program and they play in one of the toughest conferences in the nation. It's less than 20 minutes away from where I live at. It still feels like home even when I go down there to play open gym or just go watch practice or go watch a game."
Recently, Tokoto spoke on the phone with the No. 1 pick in the 2010 NBA Draft, John Wall. Wall played one season at Kentucky before exiting for the pros.
The conversation was set up by Trimble, who spoke with Wall during a recent Marquette game. Wall was in town to face the Milwaukee Bucks the next night.
"I was having a little problem with playing down to my competition's level for a game, wasn't playing as hard as I should have been, which I've fixed," Tokoto said. "(Wall and I) talked about always just bringing it because you never know who's watching. You never know if it's their first time watching or their last time watching. You've always got to bring your 'A' game no matter who you're playing.
"That was pretty inspirational," he said with a laugh.
---
Buzz is recruiting JP and it means a lot more than stink to him.
But, this is good to know. When/if 4ever gets game, and Buzz decides to recruit him, he should keep 4ever far away from all NBA players because it does not mean stink to him.
Quote from: babytownfrolics on February 04, 2011, 11:34:00 AM
Crean's teams were bad on defense from 2003-2005, then much better from 2006-2008 (great in 2008). What changed? Scheme, coaching, personnel, experience? A combination of all four?
personnel ... all the rest was largely the same.
DJ was a lockdown defensive PG and McNeal of BE defensive player of the year his sophomore year and Lazar was excellent. Burke was adequate in the post.
Maybe Buzz should recruit better defensive players. Wait, he did, in VB. But all anyone looks at with him is ball touches, offense and the mechanics of his shot. (I understand he has struggled the last few games but before that he was very effective defensively and all everyone whined about was his offensive production)
Quote from: AnotherMU84 on February 04, 2011, 09:56:02 AM
I hear what your saying but Wesley is not a former player, unless something happened this morning I missed.
Wes most definitely is a former MU player...unless he's wearing a wig and calling himself Jae Crowder ;D
Quote from: Henry Sugar on February 04, 2011, 11:05:58 AM
Buzz has been the coach for three years. At what point do we stop making excuses for three years of poor defense (and a downward trend)?
So, then, it's your contention that MU's defensive woes the past three years are the result of scheme and coaching deficiencies rather than personnel deficiencies?
I'm not saying you're right or wrong, but I'd be interested in knowing how you defend that position. And perhaps enlightening us on the nature of those deficiencies.
I sincerely don't mean this as a swipe, but it's not difficult to look at a bunch of sabermetric-type statistics and declare trends, etc. I'm more interested in the causes of those trends.
Quote from: AnotherMU84 on February 04, 2011, 11:36:06 AM
I guess you need to read the article that this thread is about ....
"The pros definitely do stick out," Tokoto said. "It's close to home, it's a great program and they play in one of the toughest conferences in the nation. It's less than 20 minutes away from where I live at. It still feels like home even when I go down there to play open gym or just go watch practice or go watch a game."
Recently, Tokoto spoke on the phone with the No. 1 pick in the 2010 NBA Draft, John Wall. Wall played one season at Kentucky before exiting for the pros.
The conversation was set up by Trimble, who spoke with Wall during a recent Marquette game. Wall was in town to face the Milwaukee Bucks the next night.
"I was having a little problem with playing down to my competition's level for a game, wasn't playing as hard as I should have been, which I've fixed," Tokoto said. "(Wall and I) talked about always just bringing it because you never know who's watching. You never know if it's their first time watching or their last time watching. You've always got to bring your 'A' game no matter who you're playing.
"That was pretty inspirational," he said with a laugh.
---
Buzz is recruiting JP and it means a lot more than stink to him.
But, this is good to know. When/if 4ever gets game, and Buzz decides to recruit him, he should keep 4ever far away from all NBA players because it does not mean stink to him.
seriously i thought with the couple of "vacations" that were given out the hijackings would stop.
I don't believe he meant pro basketball players when he said "the pro's stick out"
I think he meant the pros(as in pros and cons) of going to MU stand out.
None of this means anything really. When he talks to a NC paper he will talka bout how great NC and Old Roy are. When he talks to a Madison paper he will say how much he loves Bo.
Its great that he likes Buzz and respects him. Its good that we are in the hunt.
We'll see how it turns out.
When did this turn into a buzz crean topic. In case you forgot, the thread has nothing to do with Tom crean or defensive trends.
Quote from: babytownfrolics on February 04, 2011, 10:55:04 AM
According to Pomeroy, the 2003 team was #1 in offensive efficiency, and #101 in defensive efficiency.
2004: 42 offense, 159 defense
2005: 73 offense, 129 defense
2006: 31 offense, 54 defense
2007: 49 offense, 31 defense
2008: 24 offense, 10 defense
2009: 9 offense, 51 defense
2010: 22 offense, 57 defense
2011: 6 offense, 83 defense
some pretty good years for Crean but otherwise a mixed bag. Buzz is clearly better offensively. Regression this year on defense is concerning but 2009 and 2010 seems was likely due to lack of size. This year I'd say inexperience on the perimeter is the problem.
So statistically the Buzz/Crean standings look like this over the past 9 years.
Offense:
1. Crean 2003 (final 4 -Wade, Jackson, Diener, Novak, Merritt, et al)
2.Buzz 2011
3.Buzz 2009
4.Buzz 2010
5.Crean 2008
6.Crean 2006
7.Crean 2004
8.Crean 2007
9. Crean 2005
Total knockout for Buzz.
Defense:
1.Crean 2008
2.Crean 2007
3.Buzz 2009
4.Crean 2006
5.Buzz 2010
6.Buzz 2011
7.Crean 2003 (Final 4)
8.Crean 2005
9.Crean 2004
Basically a dead heat. Buzz avg team ranking 4.67, TC avg 5.16.
Overall, a solid edge to Buzz. Most interesting is that our top two teams on offense (2003 and this year) were so poor on defense (7th and 6th and 101 and 83 overall).
Quote from: Henry Sugar on February 04, 2011, 11:05:58 AM
Buzz has been the coach for three years. At what point do we stop making excuses for three years of poor defense (and a downward trend)?
So if our defense is good next year it will be proof that
a) Buzz fixed the problem
b) The players are playing Buzzes defense better
c) Solar Flares caused MU to play bad defense.
I get that we haven't been a great defensive team under Buzz, and I also get that in his whopping 4 years as a head coach it appears to be a problem of his. However, the whole CS team beating the drum on "bad defense" is getting rather tiresome. He's a relatively new and young head coach, and he's so far proven to be very adaptable on the offensive end, I have no reason to believe that he won't also get better on teaching/coaching defense.
I guess I'm trying to figure out what point your making in constantly complaining about defense. Or maybe there isn't a point, and it just bugs you. I always appreciate your stats HS, but now it seems like you're just using them to back up your complaint. That's valid, I suppose.
Also, I'm pretty sure Buzz pays *some* attention to the forums and CS, so maybe all the stats will help him out (since he's a numbers guy).
What am I saying? I donno. Don't lose faith that defense won't get better. It could next year, and then the argument is gone.
+1 Rocky
Quote from: MuMark on February 04, 2011, 12:02:30 PM
I don't believe he meant pro basketball players when he said "the pro's stick out"
I think he meant the pros(as in pros and cons) of going to MU stand out.
None of this means anything really. When he talks to a NC paper he will talka bout how great NC and Old Roy are. When he talks to a Madison paper he will say how much he loves Bo.
Its great that he likes Buzz and respects him. Its good that we are in the hunt.
Good points ... JP is handling himself well with the media to date, and that's not easy to do. It looks like he's the kind of young man who will not burn a bridge and will say good things about every one of the schools pursuing him. That's good -- the less drama the better.
Quote from: 1001 N. 4th St. on February 04, 2011, 12:03:18 PM
When did this turn into a buzz crean topic. In case you forgot, the thread has nothing to do with Tom crean or defensive trends.
Are you kidding? Every thread is about Tom Crean!
+2 Rocky
Quote from: rocky_warrior on February 04, 2011, 12:27:47 PM
So if our defense is good next year it will be proof that
a) Buzz fixed the problem
b) The players are playing Buzzes defense better
c) Solar Flares caused MU to play bad defense.
I get that we haven't been a great defensive team under Buzz, and I also get that in his whopping 4 years as a head coach it appears to be a problem of his. However, the whole CS team beating the drum on "bad defense" is getting rather tiresome. He's a relatively new and young head coach, and he's so far proven to be very adaptable on the offensive end, I have no reason to believe that he won't also get better on teaching/coaching defense.
I guess I'm trying to figure out what point your making in constantly complaining about defense. Or maybe there isn't a point, and it just bugs you. I always appreciate your stats HS, but now it seems like you're just using them to back up your complaint. That's valid, I suppose.
Also, I'm pretty sure Buzz pays *some* attention to the forums and CS, so maybe all the stats will help him out (since he's a numbers guy).
What am I saying? I donno. Don't lose faith that defense won't get better. It could next year, and then the argument is gone.
Well, honestly, what else is there to criticize?
Buzz's team(s) does a lot of things well, but their defense appears to be the department that is lacking.
A more experienced team will help. A deeper roster could help if Buzz is willing to go deeper on the bench. Some more height will help. A lot of things
could help.
But, for right now, MU is losing, and has lost over the past 3 seasons primarily because of defense.
With all of this said, I think next years team could be elite if the little things go right (ie injuries, transfers, etc.), but they will have to be better on the defensive end to get there.
/attempting unjack
By the way, Tokoto does seem to hang out around Marquette a lot. Should be interesting to see what happens with his recruitment.
Quote from: rocky_warrior on February 04, 2011, 12:27:47 PM
I get that we haven't been a great defensive team under Buzz, and I also get that in his whopping 4 years as a head coach it appears to be a problem of his. However, the whole CS team beating the drum on "bad defense" is getting rather tiresome.
OK...isn't that the point of this forum? To talk about MU basketball?
Quote from: Henry Sugar on February 04, 2011, 11:05:58 AM
Buzz has been the coach for three years. At what point do we stop making excuses for three years of poor defense (and a downward trend)?
We have taken a step back this year and I honestly don't know why (more uptempo offense? lots of new guys in the rotation? lack of size/rebounding? poor technique? bad coaching?), but I wouldn't call it a "trend". From Buzz's 1st year to his 2nd we dropped from 51st to 57th in defensive efficiency while losing our best on ball defender in at least a couple of decades (DJ), our Big East defensive POY (Jerel) and an NBA starter (Wesley) and replacing them with 2 tiny career backups (Mo and Cubie) and a JC guy (DJO). On the front line the split between Burke and JFB became 100% Jimmy and Lazar had to move from the 4 to the 5. Any (fair) way you cut it,staying basically the same defensively despite those losses is indicative of improvement rather than a downward trend.
As was stated b/4 JP is UNC's to loose although Drew's departure today may give pause.
What could Drew's departure have at all to do with JPT?
Drew wouldn't have been there anyway when JPT got there.
Quote from: GOMU1104 on February 04, 2011, 02:03:00 PM
What could Drew's departure have at all to do with JPT?
Drew wouldn't have been there anyway when JPT got there.
You beat me to it. Unless the Drew family are close friends with the Tokotos how does this matter?
It matters because it shows that Old Roy will recruit over anyone. JP may think, " what if I have a slow freshman year" is Old Roy then going over me?
Buzz can say, I won't recruit anyone directly behind you year wise, which may be enough to push JP to MU.
Quote from: Marquette65 on February 04, 2011, 02:21:53 PM
It matters because it shows that Old Roy will recruit over anyone. JP may think, " what if I have a slow freshman year" is Old Roy then going over me?
Buzz can say, I won't recruit anyone directly behind you year wise, which may be enough to push JP to MU.
Larry Drew is a junior point guard. He's lost time to a incoming freshman. I certainly think that Buzz would try to increase the talent here...just like Roy would. If you lose time to a freshman, well, that's his issue.
Quote from: Marquette65 on February 04, 2011, 02:21:53 PM
It matters because it shows that Old Roy will recruit over anyone. JP may think, " what if I have a slow freshman year" is Old Roy then going over me?
Buzz can say, I won't recruit anyone directly behind you year wise, which may be enough to push JP to MU.
The day Buzz starts promising high school kids that he won't recruit over them is the day I want Marquette to start looking for a new coach.
Quote from: The Sultan of South Wayne on February 04, 2011, 01:38:31 PM
OK...isn't that the point of this forum? To talk about MU basketball?
/rant
Of course it is, and I don't get why people ever post that question as if it's some sort of legitimate argument. I posted that I found the complaining tiresome, and I also posted some other things. If agree, disagree, or don't care, feel free to say so. However "isn't that the point of this forum? To talk about MU basketball?" is a useless post.
I find those tiresome as well. Does that make you feel better?
/end rant
I like what JP has to say in this article. I think the top 5 earlier was totally bogus, and MU still has a good shot at him. He's clearly already gelling with our team and coach - so why not.
Quote from: The Sultan of South Wayne on February 04, 2011, 02:25:50 PM
Larry Drew is a junior point guard. He's lost time to a incoming freshman. I certainly think that Buzz would try to increase the talent here...just like Roy would. If you lose time to a freshman, well, that's his issue.
Agreed. The idea that North Carolina (or any major program) wouldn't recruit a high school point guard because they have a sophmore who has guided them all the way to the NIT tournament is laughable.
Quote from: StillAWarrior on February 04, 2011, 02:27:59 PM
The day Buzz starts promising high school kids that he won't recruit over them is the day I want Marquette to start looking for a new coach.
So, if all that stood between MU and an elite, McDonald's AA-type player was Buzz's pledge not to sign another player at that kid's position
for one year, you'd want Buzz fired?
Quote from: Pakuni on February 04, 2011, 02:36:35 PM
So, if all that stood between MU and an elite, McDonald's AA-type player was Buzz's pledge not to sign another player at that kid's position for one year, you'd want Buzz fired?
I'm leaning that way, yeah. And I don't believe for a second Buzz would ever make that promise. If that's what a kid wants/needs, I'm not sure I want that kid. I don't want kids calling the shots for the program...that's why Buzz makes the big bucks. By the way, even with "elite, McDonald's AA-type" players, there are no guarantees.
Quote from: StillAWarrior on February 04, 2011, 03:00:50 PM
I'm leaning that way, yeah. And I don't believe for a second Buzz would ever make that promise. If that's what a kid wants/needs, I'm not sure I want that kid. I don't want kids calling the shots for the program...that's why Buzz makes the big bucks. By the way, even with "elite, McDonald's AA-type" players, there are no guarantees.
+1
Quote from: rocky_warrior on February 04, 2011, 02:34:32 PM
/rant
Of course it is, and I don't get why people ever post that question as if it's some sort of legitimate argument. I posted that I found the complaining tiresome, and I also posted some other things. If agree, disagree, or don't care, feel free to say so. However "isn't that the point of this forum? To talk about MU basketball?" is a useless post.
I'm sorry but saying an argument is getting tiresome, without adding anything to the topic itself, is just as useless. If it is tiresome to you, my suggestion is either ignore it, or add something to it. It obviously isn't tiresome to me, the CS staff, or a number of others on this board.
Quote from: Ari Gold on February 03, 2011, 09:16:14 PM
http://www.foxsportswisconsin.com/02/03/11/JP-Tokoto-on-possibility-of-Marquette-ge/landing.html?blockID=403733&feedID=5059
"Coach Buzz, he's an awesome guy. I love coach Buzz," Tokoto said as he began to chuckle. "He always says what he thinks and that's a positive because you don't want a coach telling you lies and just misleading you about anything. He says what's on his mind and he tells the truth.
"He's just a great guy. He seems like a great coach in practice. He's cool, he's calm and he's collected. He actually coaches his guys. He doesn't just yell at them, scream at them and tell them what they're doing wrong. He's positive. I love the way he coaches. I just love Coach as a guy."
So you're saying there's a chance JP?
Thanks for posting my article.
To answer one responders comment, the "pros" that JP was referring to was in the sense of pros and cons.
Quote from: The Sultan of South Wayne on February 04, 2011, 03:20:01 PM
I'm sorry but saying an argument is getting tiresome, without adding anything to the topic itself, is just as useless. If it is tiresome to you, my suggestion is either ignore it, or add something to it. It obviously isn't tiresome to me, the CS staff, or a number of others on this board.
Sultan, you're really calling the kettle black here. You're arguing without adding anything to the topic.
That being said, Rocky did lay out why he thought that the 'Buzz's defense sucks' argument is wrong, which "added to the topic itself."
Quote from: Rocky_Warrior[Buzz is] a relatively new and young head coach, and he's so far proven to be very adaptable on the offensive end, I have no reason to believe that he won't also get better on teaching/coaching defense.
Argue the point instead of arguing about how Rocky is arguing :P
Will have zero impact on Tokoto situation other than Roy maybe turning up the heat because he'll have one less distraction to deal with at home.
Drew was a top 75 PG...not the usual Roy recruit and he (Roy) has been questioned/challenged about it since day one.....he certainly isn't a Felton, Lawson, Cota, Ford type UNC PG and he never made the UNC fanbase happy.
His dad forced him to stay in Cali to work out during the summers instead of doing the team thing in Chapel Hill which also upset many Tar Heel faithful....and teammates privately and not so privately....
The team is an entirely different team with F PG Marshall leading them....offense has exploded, players have all commented that he's a player's PG....is an amazing passer with far better court vision than Drew has ever shown...
Only bad thing from UNC perspective is timing....he should have been allowed/encouraged to transfer last year when he talked about it...he just had no takers.....if he had left, UNC would have either signed Ray McCallum or Quinn Cook .....timing stinks
Here's what the press is saying about it....
http://www.sportingnews.com/ncaa-basketball/story/2011-02-04/unc-point-guard-larry-drew-leaves-team
http://espn.go.com/mens-college-basketball/blog/_/name/katz_andy/id/6090943/carolina-fine-larry-drew-ii
Not a loss in the long run....team chemistry will be better...truly addition by subtraction....
Quote from: texaswarrior74 on February 04, 2011, 04:52:44 PM
Will have zero impact on Tokoto situation other than Roy maybe turning up the heat because he'll have one less distraction to deal with at home.
Drew was a top 75 PG...not the usual Roy recruit and he (Roy) has been questioned/challenged about it since day one.....he certainly isn't a Felton, Lawson, Cota, Ford type UNC PG and he never made the UNC fanbase happy.
I don't disagree that Drew's situation has no impact on Tokoto, but Drew was considered much better than a top 75 PG. He was considered by some a top 5 PG in his class and was a McDonald's AA. Obviously he hasn't lived up to those expectations, but I'm not sure many UNC fans were questioning Roy for signing him.
he was very over rated ..
His McDonald's AA selection was widely questioned and disputed....his rankings were as well....even by the hard core UNC fans who never take off their Carolina blue sunglasses.....many experts felt that he had maxed out early and never showed any real improvement after his sophomore year of HS... it was thin year for quality PGs and Roy took him out of desperation after the last top uncommitted prospect, Brandon Jennings, committed to Arizona when Ty Lawson's status (about returning) was up in the air.
The biggest thing that UNC fans disliked was that they never felt that he was a team player and had never "bought in"....he might have physically been in Chapel Hill but mentally he was 2500 miles away.