The kid was really good tonight. Our defense was horrible, horrible, horrible tonight without him on the floor in the first half. Jae and Otule stay out of foul trouble and we win that game.
MU players just have terrible bball IQ.
Crowder had one of those MU Specials in the first half when he bumped someone past the top of the key. It was completely unnecessary. And, of course, the technical wasn't exactly smart bball since Crowder knows he must be in the game in crunch time.
And Otule starts the game with 2 soft fouls, and leaves the game just a few minutes in.
Quote from: warriors1965 on February 02, 2011, 09:39:37 PM
MU players just have terrible bball IQ.
Crowder had one of those MU Specials in the first half when he bumped someone past the top of the key. It was completely unnecessary. And, of course, the technical wasn't exactly smart bball since Crowder knows he must be in the game in crunch time.
And Otule starts the game with 2 soft fouls, and leaves the game just a few minutes in.
Thanks for your input. It kills me to know that we were definitely supposed to win that game and blew it too. I know that refs are not human and never call bad fouls on the visiting team due to atmosphere, etc.
On a side note, great job fighting back in the second half. That could've been really ugly for a while but we responded and made a game of it. Our team always fights for 40 minutes and that makes every game fun to watch. I wish our fans handled adversity as well as our team does.
Quote from: MU7703 on February 02, 2011, 09:45:24 PM
It kills me to know that we were definitely supposed to win that game and blew it too.
down 9 at half away against the number 12 team in the country does not translate to us being favored...or definitely winning a game
Quote from: jhags15 on February 03, 2011, 12:32:51 AM
down 9 at half away against the number 12 team in the country does not translate to us being favored...or definitely winning a game
Yeah, we were 'supposed' to win games before, but if any we weren't it was this. They had our number all night and we couldn't get over the hump.
I've seen enough moving high ball screens for awhile. He seems to always pick up a cheap one and they don't seem very effective.
Quote from: warriors1965 on February 02, 2011, 09:39:37 PM
MU players just have terrible bball IQ.
Crowder had one of those MU Specials in the first half when he bumped someone past the top of the key. It was completely unnecessary. And, of course, the technical wasn't exactly smart bball since Crowder knows he must be in the game in crunch time.
And Otule starts the game with 2 soft fouls, and leaves the game just a few minutes in.
How many of these kids are still in their first year of division I bball...I want to see you get out there and do what they do.
Quote from: Rollout-the-Barrel on February 03, 2011, 06:14:27 AM
I've seen enough moving high ball screens for awhile. He seems to always pick up a cheap one and they don't seem very effective.
This is the exact thing I was thinking last night too. He's a big man who already struggles with foul trouble. Why put a 6'11" guy out 35 feet from the basket where the ref is just sitting there watching him. It's an awful place for CO to pick up a foul and never really does much for the offense.
That said, I think he's done a nice job of improving this year, definitely making strides, and his timing and instincts to block shots is improving. He's not going to play 35min/game but I'd like him on the court more often than on the bench.
Quote from: Rollout-the-Barrel on February 03, 2011, 06:14:27 AM
I've seen enough moving high ball screens for awhile. He seems to always pick up a cheap one and they don't seem very effective.
I coulda sworn he was pushed into the defender when he got called for that moving screen. No way he naturally came into that guy so out of control.
Quote from: jhags15 on February 03, 2011, 12:32:51 AM
down 9 at half away against the number 12 team in the country does not translate to us being favored...or definitely winning a game
pretty sure that was sarcasism. He also said ref's were not human.
Quote from: g0lden3agle on February 03, 2011, 09:44:04 AM
I coulda sworn he was pushed into the defender when he got called for that moving screen. No way he naturally came into that guy so out of control.
Chris was doing exactly what he was supposed to. I believe Buycks had the ball. Buycks made his move too early. Otule was not set yet and so when Buycks made his move to drive the defender into the screen, Chris was still moving. Right back to the over trying, not thinking clearly on the road... Leads to stupid things like that.
Quote from: MU7703 on February 02, 2011, 09:45:24 PM
Thanks for your input. It kills me to know that we were definitely supposed to win that game and blew it too. I know that refs are not human and never call bad fouls on the visiting team due to atmosphere, etc.
On a side note, great job fighting back in the second half. That could've been really ugly for a while but we responded and made a game of it. Our team always fights for 40 minutes and that makes every game fun to watch. I wish our fans handled adversity as well as our team does.
Otule did a nice job. disagree we were supposed to win the game. Based on what? The game was never in doubt. Granted we play hard, but to compete in the BE you have to play hard. I still think 9-9 is where we end up. 2-8 against ranked teams puts us on the wrong side of the bubble.
Quote from: 79Warrior on February 03, 2011, 10:27:56 AM
Otule did a nice job. disagree we were supposed to win the game. Based on what? The game was never in doubt. Granted we play hard, but to compete in the BE you have to play hard. I still think 9-9 is where we end up. 2-8 against ranked teams puts us on the wrong side of the bubble.
Sarcasm People. He says that refs never make calls based on emotion and are not human.
And this is why Teal is good.
The early plays are sometimes the key to the game. We scored 7 points quickly. Butler then missed a contested layup and Otule gets called for a foul on the rebound. If Butler makes the shot, not only do we get 2 points, but Otule does not get the foul. After Otule and Gardner pick up their second fouls
crowder has to play the post and gets called for a foul. In my mind the game is totally different if Butler made that shot.
A 3 point game with 4 minutes to go is "never in doubt"?
Some of you people are just unbelievable. ::)
Quote from: MuMark on February 03, 2011, 05:30:20 PM
A 3 point game with 4 minutes to go is "never in doubt"?
Some of you people are just unbelievable. ::)
you really thought we were going to win? I did not.
Quote from: 79Warrior on February 03, 2011, 08:03:43 PM
you really thought we were going to win? I did not.
So we come storming back from 14 down to bring it within 3 and you were the guy sitting there saying, "Who cares, we're not going to win anyway."?
You must be a lot of fun to be around.
Down 3 with the ball, with momentum, 79whiner sees no reason to not sound like Tigger. "Oh, well..."
I never thought we were going to win either.
Quote from: Henry Sugar on February 03, 2011, 08:44:48 PM
I never thought we were going to win either.
+1.
But I never thought we were going to lose at Louisville either.
QuoteAnd this is why Teal is good.
Shouldn't that be in teal?
As far as the Otule moving screen....first of all I think it was a terrible call and did not feel Chris was moving.
Secondly, yes a moving screen is usually the mistake of the ball handler going too elarly and running his defender into a not yet set screener. The rule since third grade for these guys is to wait until his feet are set to go.
thirdly, for the genius asking why he is out there. ...ahhh well have you been paying attention... our motion offesne starts with a pitch to the corner then a ball reversal.... side... top... side back to the PG who gets a high ball screen. We only do it 50 times a game so to wonder why he is doing it now is simply ahead scratcher.
Quote from: warriors1991 on February 03, 2011, 09:40:36 AM
This is the exact thing I was thinking last night too. He's a big man who already struggles with foul trouble. Why put a 6'11" guy out 35 feet from the basket where the ref is just sitting there watching him. It's an awful place for CO to pick up a foul and never really does much for the offense.
Oh of course it does a lot for the offense. First of all, he generally sets good screens. He's a big guy so it is hard for a defender to get around him. Finally it gets CO's guy (mostly likely a big guy) away from the basket so we can attack the lane. As Dimes mentioned, it is usually the fault of the man with the ball.
Quote from: MuMark on February 03, 2011, 05:30:20 PMA 3 point game with 4 minutes to go is "never in doubt"?
Some of you people are just unbelievable. ::)
Quote from: Henry Sugar on February 03, 2011, 08:44:48 PMI never thought we were going to win either.
But that's not really the point, is it? He's disputing the claim that the game was "never in doubt". When you are down 3 with the ball and there's only a handful of minutes left, it's safe to say that Marquette had a chance to win. We didn't, I never expected to go into 'Nova and win that game, but we had a chance, and if I was a 'Nova fan, I certainly would have seen frittering away a 14-point lead to 3 in the final minutes as "in doubt".
We didn't win. That doesn't mean we didn't have a legitimate chance to do so.
Quote from: The Sultan of South Wayne on February 04, 2011, 11:18:59 AM
Oh of course it does a lot for the offense. First of all, he generally sets good screens. He's a big guy so it is hard for a defender to get around him. Finally it gets CO's guy (mostly likely a big guy) away from the basket so we can attack the lane. As Dimes mentioned, it is usually the fault of the man with the ball.
I agree. Just can't afford to get a foul so far away from the basket as we've seen how valuable co is on defense and to have a post threat on offense. Same goes for excessive hedge bump at three point line on defense. Not saying it's all otules fault, but I think he'll get better at bailing on high screens if guards don't set it up right. He needs to be out there the majority of the time for our best chance to win.
Thought we were totally in the nova game in the last 10 minutes. Love the revisionist history on this board -
Facts (sorry)
Half down 9 or 25-34.
Move gap to 3 and down 59-62 with 5 to go
Down 61-64 with 4 to go
Down 63-66 with 3 to go
Down 65-69 with 2 to go
Trade baskets and lose 70-75
Quote from: mviale on February 05, 2011, 11:45:31 AM
Thought we were totally in the nova game in the last 10 minutes. Love the revisionist history on this board -
Facts (sorry)
Half down 9 or 25-34.
Move gap to 3 and down 59-62 with 5 to go
Down 61-64 with 4 to go
Down 63-66 with 3 to go
Down 65-69 with 2 to go
Trade baskets and lose 70-75
I'm honestly beginning to wonder why some of the people on here even bother to watch the games when their computer or spreadsheet has already told them the outcome. It must take ALL of the fun out of it.
Quote from: ATL MU Warrior on February 05, 2011, 04:34:43 PM
I'm honestly beginning to wonder why some of the people on here even bother to watch the games when their computer or spreadsheet has already told them the outcome. It must take ALL of the fun out of it.
Are you saying you didn't think we had a shot with about 4 minutes to go? I'm confused as to what your point is.
Quote from: ATL MU Warrior on February 05, 2011, 04:34:43 PM
I'm honestly beginning to wonder why some of the people on here even bother to watch the games when their computer or spreadsheet has already told them the outcome. It must take ALL of the fun out of it.
I agree. The point spreads at select times late in the second half that mvitale showed indicate that this game was really a very close one, and exciting to watch.
With five minutes to go, I thought MU was going to win. Then again, with five minutes to go in the Louisville game......
Quote from: g0lden3agle on February 05, 2011, 06:26:41 PM
Are you saying you didn't think we had a shot with about 4 minutes to go? I'm confused as to what your point is.
I thought we had a shot...I wasn't overly confident but I thought we had a shot and was excited to see if we could pull it off.
My point was that earlier in the thread it was the stats guys (79Warrior and HS) saying they never thought we were going to win, presumably because their data didn't indicate that we should.
To each his own, but I happen to think that's a sad sad way to watch a basketball game involving a team you love.
Quote from: ATL MU Warrior on February 05, 2011, 08:51:55 PM
My point was that earlier in the thread it was the stats guys (79Warrior and HS) saying they never thought we were going to win, presumably because their data didn't indicate that we should.
To each his own, but I happen to think that's a sad sad way to watch a basketball game involving a team you love.
I'm going to keep this respectful, and I encourage you to do the same.
You have made a false assumption about my perspective and approach. If I felt that the data was the driving force behind my viewpoint, I would have provided the data to support that argument.
79Warrior said that the game was never in doubt. While that's probably an overly negative perspective, I honestly wasn't that far off from that assessment. Despite the margin of the game and MU getting it close, I never felt like MU was going to win, because I've seen this movie a few times during the season. It's my opinion and I'm entitled to it.
Thought this blog was about Otule?
Quote from: Henry Sugar on February 06, 2011, 09:24:47 AM
I'm going to keep this respectful, and I encourage you to do the same.
You have made a false assumption about my perspective and approach. If I felt that the data was the driving force behind my viewpoint, I would have provided the data to support that argument.
79Warrior said that the game was never in doubt. While that's probably an overly negative perspective, I honestly wasn't that far off from that assessment. Despite the margin of the game and MU getting it close, I never felt like MU was going to win, because I've seen this movie a few times during the season. It's my opinion and I'm entitled to it.
Reread my post. "To each his own" is what I said. How is that disrespectful?
Added: I also voiced my opinion...that it must be sad to watch a game if you already "know" the outcome beforehand. Am I not entitled to my opinion?
Quote from: msbjim on February 06, 2011, 10:13:45 AM
Thought this blog was about Otule?
Otule has been a pleasant surprise this year and I hope he continues to get better.
Quote from: tower912 on February 03, 2011, 08:15:32 PM
Down 3 with the ball, with momentum, 79whiner sees no reason to not sound like Tigger. "Oh, well..."
Eeyore?
Tigger's pretty up beat :)
damn computers and spreadsheets....
Quote from: mviale on February 06, 2011, 11:19:06 AM
damn computers and spreadsheets....
Luckily our coach doesn't agree with that :D
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/02/25/sports/ncaabasketball/25marquette.html
Back to on topic...I know +/- provides a limited viewpoint, but it can be informative...other than a few like Sultan, MU 84 and a couple of others, many posters here have not seen the importance of Otule. Basic stats don't tell his story...but 84 has been focused on +/- for Otule which I think is right, especially considering his limited minutes.
Consider this, in our 5 BE losses, the combo of Otule/Gardner at the 5 spot have been a
+64 in the Roland Rating (+/- in and out of game). Only in the Pitt game have they had a negative drag (-12), but in the others, their presence has made a positive difference: (Nova= +12, UCONN= +32, ND Away= +17, UL= +12). Pomeroy has found that a Big makes the biggest difference on defense...and I think the runs teams have made on us in our losses proves this. Their value are as space eaters. We would have been better big.
Here are their minutes in those losses: Pitt= 21, UL= 22, ND=13, UCONN=18, Nova= 21. Small ball can expose us in these opposing runs.
Quote from: Dr. Blackheart on February 06, 2011, 12:03:46 PM
Luckily our coach doesn't agree with that :D
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/02/25/sports/ncaabasketball/25marquette.html
Back to on topic...I know +/- provides a limited viewpoint, but it can be informative...other than a few like Sultan, MU 84 and a couple of others, many posters here have not seen the importance of Otule. Basic stats don't tell his story...but 84 has been focused on +/- for Otule which I think is right, especially considering his limited minutes.
Consider this, in our 5 BE losses, the combo of Otule/Gardner at the 5 spot have been a +64 in the Roland Rating (+/- in and out of game). Only in the Pitt game have they had a negative drag (-12), but in the others, their presence has made a positive difference: (Nova= +12, UCONN= +32, ND Away= +17, UL= +12). Pomeroy has found that a Big makes the biggest difference on defense...and I think the runs teams have made on us in our losses proves this. Their value are as space eaters. We would have been better big.
Here are their minutes in those losses: Pitt= 21, UL= 22, ND=13, UCONN=18, Nova= 21. Small ball can expose us in these opposing runs.
Found this blog post showing what opposing bigs did to MU in our losses where we went small ball. Ugly.
http://thesportscycle.com/2011/02/03/marquette-basketball-against-big-east-big-men/
Quote from: Dr. Blackheart on February 08, 2011, 10:09:24 PM
Found this blog post showing what opposing bigs did to MU in our losses where we went small ball. Ugly.
http://thesportscycle.com/2011/02/03/marquette-basketball-against-big-east-big-men/
This is why we must keep getting more switchable wing players.
Quote from: Dr. Blackheart on February 08, 2011, 10:09:24 PM
Found this blog post showing what opposing bigs did to MU in our losses where we went small ball. Ugly.
http://thesportscycle.com/2011/02/03/marquette-basketball-against-big-east-big-men/
This was fine until this line: "Unfortunately, Marquette and Buzz Williams only wants to pick up guards who are fast, can shoot the ball, and can play at multiple positions."
That is false. Buzz most certainly does *want* to pick up a quality big...he just hasn't done so.
Thank God! Willie had time to post his standard "switchables" commentary. Can you also include a "In Buzz We Trust" blast?