I am a student here who follows this board, and I can't believe the negativity of some of the posters on this board. I also can't stand some of the alumni who sit behind the visitor's bench who just sit there and don't give Calhoun any crap when he is whining about every call. You complain about the student section, about Buzz, about young top 100 players. We haven't had back to back recruiting classes like this ever so stop acting like u know how these guys develop. Fab Melo...How is he doing? Losses are gonna happen, but to see you guys praise Buzz one week rip him the next, and praise Junior one week and dis him the next is pathetic. This year wasnt supposed to be what it has been. We have done better than many expected. We have only lost to ranked teams...How can you guys give up so soon? pathetic. NIT be damned, were going to beat Syracuse. The guys say to learn from experience and yet we have all experienced it with them and we haven't learned anything. Stop complaining.
people are just venting after another frustrating loss, will still love the team tomorrow or the day after
Quote from: jhags15 on January 25, 2011, 10:38:28 PMThis year wasnt supposed to be what it has been. We have done better than many expected. We have only lost to ranked teams...How can you guys give up so soon? pathetic. NIT be damned, were going to beat Syracuse.
I agree. This year isn't what it was supposed to be. Back to back stud recruiting classes. Jimmy and DJO with a year to develop. A near-clone of Lazar Hayward. This team should be 16-5 and 6-2 in conference. I hope you're right about Syracuse, but I haven't seen anything to indicate we will do that. Especially not a Syracuse team that will come in very ornery with their current run of play. Our only possible saving grace is that they seem to be on a crapslide.
Haven't had back-to-back recruiting classes like this ever before? Okay, if you say so. How productive have these two classes been? My beef has not been about the young guys but whether or not Buzz is actually developing them.
I expected a win tonight, but on the heels of another collapse, I would be shocked if we beat Cuse...and it'd be for the first time ever. Look for Cuse to right the ship this weekend at the (morgue like) BC.
Quote from: jhags15 on January 25, 2011, 10:38:28 PM
I am a student here...We haven't had back to back recruiting classes like this ever
Yes, you are a youngster. Once upon a time, Marquette had REAL blue-chip recruits every year. Usually, a couple of them.
Buzz is starting to be frustrating to me too. Jae is no clone of Hayward...Jimmy is no leader like Hayward. On a fast break like that one Crowder had tonight Lazar wouldve slammed that down and the place wouldve went nuts. He is no clone of Zar. Next year maybe hell be that guy. Jimmy and DJO have been studs, but losing Acker and Cubi and replacing them with Buycks and Jr. Def a downgrade IMO. Buycks was a 1 yr player and Jr. played how many games last year? No way in hell was this team supposed to 16-5...With our schedule we would be in the top 15 with that record.
Quote from: VanderBabyBlue on January 25, 2011, 10:54:03 PM
I expected a win tonight, but on the heels of another collapse, I would be shocked if we beat Cuse...and it'd be for the first time ever. Look for Cuse to right the ship this weekend at the (morgue like) BC.
We're 2-7 all time versus Syracuse.
We haven't beaten them since joining the Big East.
Additionally, jhags .. you aren't paying attention if you think there are some who sing praises one week, change their tune the next. People are pretty consistent in their views, in that, there are some who have been optimistic about the team all year, others who have not.
As we have performed this past month, more people are getting off the optimistic wagon.
Yeah I guess I am starting too but I figured I would make a last stand. It's frustrating as hell
Quote from: Norm on January 25, 2011, 10:52:11 PM
Haven't had back-to-back recruiting classes like this ever before? Okay, if you say so. How productive have these two classes been? My beef has not been about the young guys but whether or not Buzz is actually developing them.
yup
Quote from: jhags15 on January 25, 2011, 10:55:49 PM
Buzz is starting to be frustrating to me too. Jae is no clone of Hayward...Jimmy is no leader like Hayward. On a fast break like that one Crowder had tonight Lazar wouldve slammed that down and the place wouldve went nuts. He is no clone of Zar. Next year maybe hell be that guy. Jimmy and DJO have been studs, but losing Acker and Cubi and replacing them with Buycks and Jr. Def a downgrade IMO. Buycks was a 1 yr player and Jr. played how many games last year? No way in hell was this team supposed to 16-5...With our schedule we would be in the top 15 with that record.
We would be, and we should be. We should have won tonight. We should have beaten Louisville. We should have been able to get one stop at Vandy. And frankly, we should have defended home court against Wisconsin and beaten an awful Gonzaga team. But I'd settle for 3 of those 5. Instead we got zero. Why is that? I don't know. Are the players not tough enough? Is Buzz not a good enough game manager and technical coach? Do we not have any leadership or grit guys willing to take the reins down the stretch? I don't know. But the bottom line is that the talent is there and we should have won at least 3 of those aforementioned games.
agree with brew. talent is there, effort is there, they just don't know how to finish out the games.
They have not found a go to guy yet. Which hurt their ability to finish games. 2nd half of the UCONN game when MU took the 5 point lead it looked like Butler would be that guy. But he did not step up and call for the ball and instead it turned into Vander and Junior drives. They need a guy with a killer instinct to finish the games.
Quote from: MU Ted on January 25, 2011, 11:15:18 PM
agree with brew. talent is there, effort is there, they just don't know how to finish out the games.
But is the talent REALLY there? Just look at the contribution of UCONN's freshman vs MU's freshman (which bodes ill for next year). Butler, Crowder and DJO are above average players, but not more than that, imo. The center position is a zero talent-wise. And Buycks is overall an average college basketball player and below average point guard.
I just don't see the great talent that others do.
"great" talent, perhaps not. talented enough to be competitive in games against ranked opponents, obviously.
talented enough to get over the hump and win the difficult games in crunch time? not so far.
i guess i'm just not as pessimistic as some.
To be honest Marquette really had not business winning the game. UCONN was taller, longer, more athletic, and have Kemba Walker. I know Kemba did not do anything but the affect of him on the court caused Marquette to guard him as a team which put stress on the defense and gives them many opportunities for good shots.
yes, ken, but according to the rest of the board it was only our poor coaching and lack of toughness that led to the difficult loss.
it's not a tough game or tough league. we should win every game handily regardless of the opposition.
and bad freshmen, too. sorry i missed that.
Yeah it isnt number 5 in the country. it wouldnt have been a huge win...
BC is a crap hole it is a horrible venue for a college basketball team. The arena has way too much concrete and the sound doesn't travel well at all.
Eventhough it was a close game, I think that fans have seen this before and didn't want to get their hopes up. Now it is at the point that the team has to give you something to cheer for, the fans can only take you so far, the team has to start performing.
Couldn't believe some of the stuff I heard in the upper deck today from MU "fans." And this stuff is being yelled at our guys.
Vander misses a FT, and a guy wants him back at Madison. Cadougan turns the ball over and he should transfer. My personal favorite, is getting on Buzz for "not coaching at all" and later saying he should be fired.
Every program has a down year. If this is our down year, so be it. The level of success MU has had in the BE is only matched by a couple programs. We're all frustrated this year, but the lack of perspective from our fans is disappointing. These aren't pros. They're good kids that are still busting their asses. And people turn on them on a freaking dime.
I'm starting to really dislike what our fanbase is becoming.
The problem is that this team isn't bad, and fans are just frustrated and trying to rationalize why we aren't winning games.
I don't know of another team in the country that has outplayed more elite caliber teams than MU. It's just unfortunate that we haven't figured out how to outplay teams for 40 mins. But when we do (hopefully this year), the sky is the limit for this team.
Quote from: WarriorHal on January 25, 2011, 10:55:26 PM
Yes, you are a youngster. Once upon a time, Marquette had REAL blue-chip recruits every year. Usually, a couple of them.
Yeah, sometimes 3 or 4. And back then, the Coach did not make a million zoides a year.
This is Buzz's team--these are all Buzz's players, they are his asst. coaches. he is accountable. Now in these times, you are paid to win conference titles, get to the dance and occasionally go deep in the dance.
Please wake me up when any of those happen.
Quote from: kryza on January 26, 2011, 05:36:37 AM
The problem is that this team isn't bad, and fans are just frustrated and trying to rationalize why we aren't winning games.
I don't know of another team in the country that has outplayed more elite caliber teams than MU. It's just unfortunate that we haven't figured out how to outplay teams for 40 mins. But when we do (hopefully this year), the sky is the limit for this team.
Who have we outplayed? We are 1-1 with ND.
Quote from: ken8406 on January 25, 2011, 11:56:54 PM
BC is a crap hole it is a horrible venue for a college basketball team. The arena has way too much concrete and the sound doesn't travel well at all.
This is a good new one.
Now we need a new arena--thats it--a new arena and we will start to kick butt. A classic piece of deflection!
Quote from: jhags15 on January 25, 2011, 10:38:28 PM
I am a student here who follows this board, and I can't believe the negativity of some of the posters on this board. I also can't stand some of the alumni who sit behind the visitor's bench who just sit there and don't give Calhoun any crap when he is whining about every call. You complain about the student section, about Buzz, about young top 100 players. We haven't had back to back recruiting classes like this ever so stop acting like u know how these guys develop. Fab Melo...How is he doing? Losses are gonna happen, but to see you guys praise Buzz one week rip him the next, and praise Junior one week and dis him the next is pathetic. This year wasnt supposed to be what it has been. We have done better than many expected. We have only lost to ranked teams...How can you guys give up so soon? pathetic. NIT be damned, were going to beat Syracuse. The guys say to learn from experience and yet we have all experienced it with them and we haven't learned anything. Stop complaining.
It's reality
Quote from: JMcSteal on January 25, 2011, 10:47:22 PM
people are just venting after another frustrating loss, will still love the team tomorrow or the day after
I'd rather have fans vent after a loss, then get on their high horse about how good MU has it. And proclaim they are disappointed in what our fan base has become.
Have you people up on those pedestals not realized that passion swings both ways? Passionate fans fucking hate buycks until he knocks down 4 3s and forces a handful of turnovers. they think Buzz gets out coached and is never a great Xs and Os coach until we play well down the final stretch, same goes for our teams mental toughness. Unfortunately, the last 3 games have made fans pessimistic about the season.
I'm happy that people complain so loudly after a loss. Those people will come back down to earth and be right back in their seats the next game hoping the team will win. I'd take 10,000 fans with that kind of passion than the ones that become disappointed in our fan base when the team fails to deliver.
-lets be honest, those people on their pedestals are fucking hypocrites who are swearing at the players/coaches/refs all game louder than everyone else.
Quote from: ken8406 on January 25, 2011, 11:56:54 PM
BC is a crap hole it is a horrible venue for a college basketball team. The arena has way too much concrete and the sound doesn't travel well at all.
I don't understand this viewpoint. I love the BC. When that place gets going it's really loud and awesome. In years past there have been times when I couldn't hear myself think. Their isn't a lot of excitement around this team right now - they could put these fans and this team in Cameron Indoor and I don't think it would be loud. Sucks, but that's going to happen when you get heartbreak after heartbreak with no relief whatsoever.
Quote from: jhags15 on January 25, 2011, 10:38:28 PM
I am a student here who follows this board, and I can't believe the negativity of some of the posters on this board. I also can't stand some of the alumni who sit behind the visitor's bench who just sit there and don't give Calhoun any crap when he is whining about every call. You complain about the student section, about Buzz, about young top 100 players. We haven't had back to back recruiting classes like this ever so stop acting like u know how these guys develop. Fab Melo...How is he doing? Losses are gonna happen, but to see you guys praise Buzz one week rip him the next, and praise Junior one week and dis him the next is pathetic. This year wasnt supposed to be what it has been. We have done better than many expected. We have only lost to ranked teams...How can you guys give up so soon? pathetic. NIT be damned, were going to beat Syracuse. The guys say to learn from experience and yet we have all experienced it with them and we haven't learned anything. Stop complaining.
Come on buddy. You've been on here long enough to know not to complain about 'you guys' after a loss.
If you read a poster who has less that 100 posts and is freaking out on the team, ignore them.
Probably a loss only troll.
Quote from: willie warrior on January 26, 2011, 06:11:55 AM
This is Buzz's team--these are all Buzz's players, they are his asst. coaches. he is accountable. Now in these times, you are paid to win conference titles, get to the dance and occasionally go deep in the dance.
Please wake me up when any of those happen.
It's WAY past your bedtime. I'm sure you're very tired. If you promise to go to sleep until any of those happen, I'll wake you up when they do. Promise. Honest. No,really - go to sleep, you'll feel better after a nice long rest.
hate speech!
Quote from: willie warrior on January 26, 2011, 06:12:52 AM
Who have we outplayed? We are 1-1 with ND.
For 40 minutes? Just ND and WVU. But for the bulk of the game, we outplayed Louisville. For at least half the game, we outplayed ND on the road. The middle half (1st into 2nd) we outplayed UConn. The real problem is that we can outplay teams for spurts, even sometimes for 20-30 minutes of a game, but the degree we outplay them is to a lesser extent than the degree they outplay us in the balance of the minutes. It's putting a full game together that we struggle with.
Quote from: brewcity77 on January 26, 2011, 02:06:02 PM
For 40 minutes? Just ND and WVU. But for the bulk of the game, we outplayed Louisville. For at least half the game, we outplayed ND on the road. The middle half (1st into 2nd) we outplayed UConn. The real problem is that we can outplay teams for spurts, even sometimes for 20-30 minutes of a game, but the degree we outplay them is to a lesser extent than the degree they outplay us in the balance of the minutes. It's putting a full game together that we struggle with.
Agreed--and the last time I checked you get your wins and losses for 40 minutes of the game.
Quote from: willie warrior on January 26, 2011, 02:10:44 PMAgreed--and the last time I checked you get your wins and losses for 40 minutes of the game.
Not arguing against that at all. And in my opinion, playing "tough" is playing 40 minutes. Regardless of how many times I hear how "tough" we are, I won't believe a word of it until it starts showing up in the win column.
Quote from: brewcity77 on January 25, 2011, 11:01:02 PM
We would be, and we should be. We should have won tonight. We should have beaten Louisville. We should have been able to get one stop at Vandy. And frankly, we should have defended home court against Wisconsin and beaten an awful Gonzaga team. But I'd settle for 3 of those 5. Instead we got zero. Why is that? I don't know. Are the players not tough enough? Is Buzz not a good enough game manager and technical coach? Do we not have any leadership or grit guys willing to take the reins down the stretch? I don't know. But the bottom line is that the talent is there and we should have won at least 3 of those aforementioned games.
FACT: Marquette is 11-19 in games decided by 9 points or fewer over the past 2 seasons. I'm tired of moral victories, and "we played tough" or "we only need some more experience." It's college. Every team needs more experience.
Quote from: TJ on January 26, 2011, 09:47:36 AM
I don't understand this viewpoint. I love the BC. When that place gets going it's really loud and awesome. In years past there have been times when I couldn't hear myself think. Their isn't a lot of excitement around this team right now - they could put these fans and this team in Cameron Indoor and I don't think it would be loud. Sucks, but that's going to happen when you get heartbreak after heartbreak with no relief whatsoever.
Go to the opposite side of teh student section when the place gets rocking then get back to me.
Quote from: ken8406 on January 26, 2011, 08:26:13 PM
Go to the opposite side of teh student section when the place gets rocking then get back to me.
I was in 209 on Tuesday, directly across from the students. It was awesome during Jimmy's run. Normally I'm in 418/9 which is also far from students. It's still great when the crowd's really into it. I've sat all over that building; when that place really gets loud, I love it. The building is not the problem; it's not perfect, but it is absolutely not the problem.
I like the Bradley Center, I think it's a huge benefit to the program that we have access to it, and I think those that complain about it are both wrong and shortsighted, without any real alternative. You really think that it's viable to build another arena for MU basketball? The Bradley Center cost $90 million in 1988. Matthew Knight Arena in Oregon opened this year and cost $227 million and it seats 6,000 less people. Does a new arena still seem like a #1 priority to you? If not, then why are you even complaining about something that you absolutely cannot change?
Quote from: ken8406 on January 26, 2011, 08:26:13 PM
Go to the opposite side of teh student section when the place gets rocking then get back to me.
Also, you said it yourself: "the place gets rocking". Just thinking about it makes me excited. It hasn't happened much this year, but that's not the building's fault. The place will be rocking again, hopefully soon, and it's going to be awesome.
$227 million?!? For that kind of money I thought we could start up a D1 football program! ;)
As a long time fan of Marquette basketball, my view is that we have a right to express our opinion, whether positive or negative. The common thread is that we want Marquette to win. It hurts to watch Marquette play poorly. My take is that the coaching may be the root of the problem. Specifically, Buzz's play calling and selection of players seems to be terrible this year. It seems that Buzz is "cooling off" our momentum in several games. Why sit DJO or Crowder for so many minutes. They "cool off". And, I really don't understand why Buzz plays Blue and Cadugan at the same time. Both do not have their offensive games together yet. If I'm the other team, you can lick your chops and think that you only need to guard the other 3 Marquette players. Buzz should be playing our "bigs" more. It hurts to watch and it hurts to realize that it's the coaching (and not the players) that are losing games this year.
Quote from: msbjim on January 27, 2011, 09:00:29 AM
And, I really don't understand why Buzz plays Blue and Cadugan at the same time. Both do not have their offensive games together yet. If I'm the other team, you can lick your chops and think that you only need to guard the other 3 Marquette players.
It was explained to you yesterday that the 12 point run to build a 5 point lead was done with both of them on the floor. You are willfully ignoring that information. It takes away a lot of credibility from the rest of your complaints.
Crowder is playing 32 mpg. It would be more if not for foul trouble. So, do we play Crowder and Butler more or do we expand the bench. Can't do both.
Quote from: RawdogDX on January 26, 2011, 10:27:41 AM
If you read a poster who has less that 100 posts and is freaking out on the team, ignore them.
or more than 9800.
Quote from: Lennys Tap on January 27, 2011, 09:23:36 AM
or more than 9800.
Lenny - knock it off - this is the kind of crap the others got banned for. You were fortunate to stay out of the pissing match that got them banned, but if you keep going even with them gone...you can be added to the ban too.
Quote from: rocky_warrior on January 27, 2011, 09:33:17 AM
Lenny - knock it off - this is the kind of crap the others got banned for. You were fortunate to stay out of the pissing match that got them banned, but if you keep going even with them gone...you can be added to the ban too.
+1
go Marquette -
I have to say my enthusiasm for this team has dropped a bit. Granted i live in the middle of nowhere Mountain West Territory but I have some thought about my disillusionment.
1. I went to school w/ Wes, Jerel, D, and Lazar - I wouldn't miss a game because I loved those guys (their toughness, finishability etc.) Those 4 could be counted on when the game was hanging in the balance. I feel less of a personal connection with this group of players, Jimmy included. We have more media access to them than ever before but when they show up on the court they seem like strangers.
2. I agree that the honeymoon with Coach Buzz is over, it is time to put up or shut up. I love his heart and who he is as a person but when it comes down to it...Marquette isn't paying him for his heart.
3. You can only handle so much heart ache, last year was agonizing. I think it is a defense mechanism to "care less" so the losses don't hurt as bad as they did last year.
I don't think its time to lower the life boats on the USS Marquette but it might be a good idea to start checking the rivets...
Quote from: wyoMUfan on January 27, 2011, 10:27:53 AM
go Marquette -
2. I agree that the honeymoon with Coach Buzz is over, it is time to put up or shut up.
In his "honeymoon" period he was called a bad hire, diminished for taking over a loaded team, ripped for numerous in game coaching "mistakes", etc., etc., etc. So now the gloves are gonna come off?
Quote from: Lennys Tap on January 27, 2011, 12:12:13 PM
In his "honeymoon" period he was called a bad hire, diminished for taking over a loaded team, ripped for numerous in game coaching "mistakes", etc., etc., etc. So now the gloves are gonna come off?
Yeah, now they come off. I would say his overall success for a new head coach was above average (at least).
They weren't all his guys, now that they are, we can fairly assess his recruiting / coaching ability
Quote from: wyoMUfan on January 27, 2011, 02:03:32 PMYeah, now they come off. I would say his overall success for a new head coach was above average (at least).
They weren't all his guys, now that they are, we can fairly assess his recruiting / coaching ability
What, now that his oldest high school recruit is a sophomore? Well, the juniors and seniors he's recruited seem to be doing pretty well. Four of our five starters, and one of our best bench players. And I guess you can accurately predict exactly what Cadougan, Blue, Williams, Jones, Gardner, Otule, and Wilson will do over the next 2-3 years? Give me a break.
Buzz has frustrated the hell out of me. Too often he waits too long to call the timeout. His defense seems erratic at best. None of his freshman recruits have yet become superstars. His hair isn't as good as Tom Crean's. But none of those are reasons we should even remotely think about making a coaching change.
Listen, I love this team, but they do drive me nuts at times. Buycks driving against Louisville. No one covering the post against Vandy (Or Louisville, or UConn). No one being willing to step up against Becky Vadger. There's plenty of reason for frustration.
But there's also plenty of reason for optimism. When you look at how we have played, we could be 19-2 right now. Gonzaga was winnable. Wisconsin was winnable. Vanderbilt was winnable. Louisville, Notre Dame, UConn, all winnable. And in that list are the current #5, 14, 15, 19, and 22 teams in the country. The simple truth is we can play with anyone. Is it fair to expect some of those results to go our way? Yes. Absolutely. And it's perfectly fair to be disappointed that we didn't get wins in at least 2 or 3 of them. But to say that it's time to evaluate if Buzz's neck should be on the chopping block is just silly.
Last year at this time we were 12-8 (3-5). So we're already technically a bit better off. We were also beginning a streak in which we rattled off 9 of 10, including a road win over a ranked team. Last year, this was the time when it came together and we started turning close losses into close wins. I hoped that it would come sooner this year, it didn't. Too bad, so sad. But if we can figure it out again this year, there's no reason we can't finish by winning 8 of our last 10. Even winning 6 of them would have us in position to get into the tournament. And once we get there, we already know we can play with anyone. Maybe all these hard lessons will pay off and we spring an upset en route to a Sweet Sixteen bid.
And who knows, maybe we don't. Maybe we go 5-5 down the stretch, miss out, and go to the NIT. Does that mean it's time to fire Buzz? I sure as hell hope not. I think he gets a minimum of 5 years. Let's see what Cadougan looks like as a senior. Let's see if Vander Blue can become a first-team Big East type of player. Let's see if Jamil Wilson can be our Wesley Johnson. Let's see if Juan Anderson or Jamal Ferguson can be that stunning underrated recruit that helps lift us to the next level.
While everything that happens now can cause us to wring our hands, get frustrated, and eventually help us make a decision on whether or not Buzz will still be here in 3-4 years, it's absolutely ludicrous to even think about pulling the plug after this year or the next, no matter what happens. Just like Cadougan, Otule, and Blue are young players who haven't yet acclimated to this level, Buzz is a young coach who is still learning the ropes. Let's give him a legitimate chance to prove his worth before we use those ropes to hang him.
Never mentioned pulling the plug, I was just stating that feelings of frustration can be focused and pointed at him.
I also think he will be our head coach for years to come.
BREWCITY77 above has it "right on" in his last paragraph.
Remember this Summer when some fans were miffed when MU was not ranked in the ESPN top 40?
Remember when we couldn't wait for the season to prove Andy Katz wrong in his pre-season predictions?
Excitement everywhere...until we started to play games. Then the reality of young, new players and a limited experience game coach began to unfold. These players are playing hard, and the coach is still on a learning curve, but the above quote NEEDS to be considered by all of us, and we need to "get real" on what we are as a team and be what we will be in the future....with a QUALITY POINT GUARD coming down the pipeline next year. This team and coach WILL GET BETTER, "patience, grasshopper".
A trip to the NIT may not be the worst thing to happen, and could be the "tough love" that this team needs to improve.
We want to win. In order to win Buzz should play the best players during crunch time.