The loss to Notre Dame is further example of the enormous price that Marquette plays because it lacks even one big man who brings anything to the court.
With just one pretty good big man, this team would be much closer to complete and be a true force. As is, this team plays a lot of four-on-five basketball.
Anyone else think Fulce should be getting more time? Maybe even start for Otule?
Buycks
DJO
Jae
Jimmy
Fulce
with Junior getting plenty of time too
Quote from: chren21 on January 22, 2011, 08:20:44 PM
Anyone else think Fulce should be getting more time? Maybe even start for Otule?
Buycks
DJO
Jae
Jimmy
Fulce
with Junior getting plenty of time too
Chris Otule has had moments this season when he showed some "stuff" offensively. But those moments have been too far and too few between.
He is simply not a Big East starter. Perhaps a starting five that includes Joseph Fulce would help.
Yep. Either go with 2 small forwards and three guards or three small forwards with Fulce joining Bulter and Crowder and two guards.
Otule was rated a 2-star by Rivals coming out of high school and he plays like it. Way over his head at this level of competition.
In seven BE games Otule has:
Scored six field goals
Grabbed 11 rebounds
Made 22 personal fouls
Quote from: chren21 on January 22, 2011, 08:20:44 PM
Anyone else think Fulce should be getting more time? Maybe even start for Otule?
Buycks
DJO
Jae
Jimmy
Fulce
with Junior getting plenty of time too
Fulce is way better than Otule, but its hard to see where he fits in since he won't play ahead of Jimmy or Crowder. I think Otule starts simply for jump ball purposes but Fulce got more time tonight and played one of his best games.
agreed... Fulce has given us some nice minutes when he is out there. He had a nice putback tonight that I particularly recall
Fulce should definitely see more time. Aside from being unable to rebound or score, Otule's great. ::)
Sounds good in theory but I don't think Fulce's knees have 20+ minutes a night in them.
Quote from: Jacks DC on January 22, 2011, 09:14:26 PM
Fulce is way better than Otule, but its hard to see where he fits in since he won't play ahead of Jimmy or Crowder. I think Otule starts simply for jump ball purposes but Fulce got more time tonight and played one of his best games.
Problem is that Fulce with his height and frame is not a post player either.
Quote from: nyg on January 22, 2011, 09:02:45 PM
In seven BE games Otule has:
Scored six field goals
Grabbed 11 rebounds
Made 22 personal fouls
I think we need to wait until Sultan weighs in in this issue.
Who cares if we're weak around the hoop, it's a guard's game.
Quote from: willie warrior on January 23, 2011, 07:24:50 AM
I think we need to wait until Sultan weighs in in this issue.
Otule is our best big man. (If by "big man" you include him and Gardner.) I think going small would be great but I don't think Fulce can go big minutes and EWill is completely undependable. I don't see many solid choices right now. (And frankly next year's front line scares the sh*t out of me.)
You seem to think that when I say "our best big man," I mean "a great big man." I never said that. He is serviceable at best.
Would help if Buzz could recruit some dudes who aren't switchables.
Agreed. Tired of hearing that this is the most talented team we've had in awhile. Sorry we are talented, but we are not big enough.
Quote from: The Sultan of South Wayne on January 23, 2011, 07:35:52 AM
Otule is our best big man. (If by "big man" you include him and Gardner.) I think going small would be great but I don't think Fulce can go big minutes and EWill is completely undependable. I don't see many solid choices right now. (And frankly next year's front line scares the sh*t out of me.)
You seem to think that when I say "our best big man," I mean "a great big man." I never said that. He is serviceable at best.
And you also said that he is 10x better than Ox is. Haven't seen that yet.
Quote from: willie warrior on January 23, 2011, 09:57:48 AM
And you also said that he is 10x better than Ox is. Haven't seen that yet.
He is. (Let's just say I'm a little down on Ox.)
You don't start a guy for the opening tip. Thats crazy talk.
Heres the thing - we were almost up 2:1 in rebounds when up 12, then Jae and Otule were hit with some fouls. Every time down in the 2nd half, ND was fouled or they made a hoop.
Quote from: mviale on January 23, 2011, 10:47:14 AM
Heres the thing - we were almost up 2:1 in rebounds when up 12, then Jae and Otule were hit with some fouls. Every time down in the 2nd half, ND was fouled or they made a hoop.
Are you implying that Otule is a rebound threat?
seemed to be working while he was in there.
Quote from: mviale on January 23, 2011, 11:47:18 AM
seemed to be working while he was in there.
Yeah--he ZERO, repeat ZERO rebounds when he was in there.
Quote from: 4everwarriors on January 23, 2011, 07:28:01 AM
Who cares if we're weak around the hoop, it's a guard's game.
Villanova agrees with you
Quote from: willie warrior on January 23, 2011, 11:48:22 AM
Yeah--he ZERO, repeat ZERO rebounds when he was in there.
I agree 13 min and 5 fouls sort of hurts your play. Game changes when Jae and Butler have to play center. Or Jimmy for that matter.
If you look at the +/- for Fulce and Otule last night, there are some pretty dramatic differences--and probably not in the direction that people here would assume.
On-court +/-
Otule +6
Fulce -16
Off-court:
With Otule on the bench, Notre Dame outscored MU by 11
With Fulce on the bench, MU outscored ND by 11
Roland Rating (combination of the 2):
Otule +17
Fulce -27
Whats amazing is that despite the litany of complaints against Otule, his Roland Rating from last night was the best from any player on either team. Fulce was the worst of any player on either team.
I'm not going to say this is decisive proof that Otule is more important than Fulce. However, I think people have gone overboard on the "Otule Sucks" argument. He may not be the best center in the Big East, and he's certainly not a stat-stuffer, but he's at least serviceable and didn't hurt the team effort last night.
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on January 23, 2011, 11:50:37 AM
Villanova agrees with you
Well then, the obvious answer is are guards aren't very good.
Quote from: Marquette84 on January 23, 2011, 12:02:57 PM
If you look at the +/- for Fulce and Otule last night, there are some pretty dramatic differences--and probably not in the direction that people here would assume.
On-court +/-
Otule +6
Fulce -16
Off-court:
With Otule on the bench, Notre Dame outscored MU by 11
With Fulce on the bench, MU outscored ND by 11
Roland Rating (combination of the 2):
Otule +17
Fulce -27
Whats amazing is that despite the litany of complaints against Otule, his Roland Rating from last night was the best from any player on either team. Fulce was the worst of any player on either team.
I'm not going to say this is decisive proof that Otule is more important than Fulce. However, I think people have gone overboard on the "Otule Sucks" argument. He may not be the best center in the Big East, and he's certainly not a stat-stuffer, but he's at least serviceable and didn't hurt the team effort last night.
Zinnnnnnnng
Quote from: Marquette84 on January 23, 2011, 12:02:57 PM
If you look at the +/- for Fulce and Otule last night, there are some pretty dramatic differences--and probably not in the direction that people here would assume.
On-court +/-
Otule +6
Fulce -16
Off-court:
With Otule on the bench, Notre Dame outscored MU by 11
With Fulce on the bench, MU outscored ND by 11
Roland Rating (combination of the 2):
Otule +17
Fulce -27
Whats amazing is that despite the litany of complaints against Otule, his Roland Rating from last night was the best from any player on either team. Fulce was the worst of any player on either team.
I'm not going to say this is decisive proof that Otule is more important than Fulce. However, I think people have gone overboard on the "Otule Sucks" argument. He may not be the best center in the Big East, and he's certainly not a stat-stuffer, but he's at least serviceable and didn't hurt the team effort last night.
Game. Set. Match.
Thanks for playing willie.
Oh my--so this proves that Otule is a stud?
These numbers are meaningless. the Roland Index--was that Gilbert?
Quote from: The Sultan of South Wayne on January 23, 2011, 12:23:46 PM
Game. Set. Match.
Thanks for playing willie.
By the way--these figures were from yesterday's game comparing Otule and Fulce. Nothing to do with Ox.
And since we are talking figures here:
Otule: Zero Points; Zero Rebounds and 5 foulsGame, set match and Superbowl victory---Thanks for partcipating Sultan
Quote from: willie warrior on January 23, 2011, 12:58:55 PM
By the way--these figures were from yesterday's game comparing Otule and Fulce. Nothing to do with Ox.And since we are talking figures here:
Otule: Zero Points; Zero Rebounds and 5 fouls
Game, set match and Superbowl victory---Thanks for partcipating Sultan
Uhhh...that's because Ox can't even get in the game. Nice try though.
And here in a nutshell, we have the essence of fandom. On one board, we have an experienced poster swearing the problem is that Buzz played too many people in the preseason, needs to settle on a 7 man rotation. Here, we have another poster of nearly the same vintage swearing the problem is that we never play the 9th man. Hmmmmm. We have one poster coming out of hibernation to ask if Cadougan has ever made a contribution, whereas elsewhere we have stats showing that his assist to turnover ratio is among the best in the BEast. Buzz's problem is that we defend too far from the basket, we don't use enough players, we should press, we don't zone, we play the wrong kind of man-to-man, we use too many players, we aren't big enough, we should go small, Buzz can't develop youth, he should play more youth, we're inexerienced, Buzz doesn't know how to use timeouts, stop runs, would stop runs if he just played the 9th/10th/11th guys more, ran off Reggie, can't recruit, can recruit, can't coach, can coach offense, can't coach D, needs to hire a Keady type, Jimmy is weak, Jimmy is a standup guy, Buycks is the most improved, Buycks has too much playground......blahbity blahbity blahbity. We lost a road game to a ranked team we could have beaten. It sucks. Let's beat UConn.
Quote from: ATL MU Warrior on January 23, 2011, 01:16:39 PM
Uhhh...that's because Ox can't even get in the game. Nice try though.
Yeah no kidding. Ox has shown that the BE season is too fast for him. His defense has been terrible and I don't even think he has scored. The idea that he would be better defensively is laughable.
Quote from: tower912 on January 23, 2011, 01:18:45 PM
And here in a nutshell, we have the essence of fandom. On one board, we have an experienced poster swearing the problem is that Buzz played too many people in the preseason, needs to settle on a 7 man rotation. Here, we have another poster of nearly the same vintage swearing the problem is that we never play the 9th man. Hmmmmm. We have one poster coming out of hibernation to ask if Cadougan has ever made a contribution, whereas elsewhere we have stats showing that his assist to turnover ratio is among the best in the BEast. Buzz's problem is that we defend too far from the basket, we don't use enough players, we should press, we don't zone, we play the wrong kind of man-to-man, we use too many players, we aren't big enough, we should go small, Buzz can't develop youth, he should play more youth, we're inexerienced, Buzz doesn't know how to use timeouts, stop runs, would stop runs if he just played the 9th/10th/11th guys more, ran off Reggie, can't recruit, can recruit, can't coach, can coach offense, can't coach D, needs to hire a Keady type, Jimmy is weak, Jimmy is a standup guy, Buycks is the most improved, Buycks has too much playground......blahbity blahbity blahbity. We lost a road game to a ranked team we could have beaten. It sucks. Let's beat UConn.
Who spiked your coffee today?
This diatribe here. A complaint in another thread because someone complemented Gasser for a triple-double. A suggestion in a third that someone go start a "fire Buzz" website because they offered a critical comment . . .
Get a good night's sleep. The sun will come out tomorrow. . . ;D
I'm in a better mood than most here. We lost a road game to a ranked team. I was sad, but the sun came up today. I have no agenda.
Quote from: tower912 on January 23, 2011, 01:18:45 PM
And here in a nutshell, we have the essence of fandom. On one board, we have an experienced poster swearing the problem is that Buzz played too many people in the preseason, needs to settle on a 7 man rotation. Here, we have another poster of nearly the same vintage swearing the problem is that we never play the 9th man. Hmmmmm. We have one poster coming out of hibernation to ask if Cadougan has ever made a contribution, whereas elsewhere we have stats showing that his assist to turnover ratio is among the best in the BEast. Buzz's problem is that we defend too far from the basket, we don't use enough players, we should press, we don't zone, we play the wrong kind of man-to-man, we use too many players, we aren't big enough, we should go small, Buzz can't develop youth, he should play more youth, we're inexerienced, Buzz doesn't know how to use timeouts, stop runs, would stop runs if he just played the 9th/10th/11th guys more, ran off Reggie, can't recruit, can recruit, can't coach, can coach offense, can't coach D, needs to hire a Keady type, Jimmy is weak, Jimmy is a standup guy, Buycks is the most improved, Buycks has too much playground......blahbity blahbity blahbity. We lost a road game to a ranked team we could have beaten. It sucks. Let's beat UConn.
Your point is unclear, at least to me, tower912. You would prefer people post what here if not their thoughts about Marquette basketball?
You dismiss others' opinions and concerns as "blahbity, blahbity, blahbity" -- a word that I do not think exists, at least in our language.
You would prefer others post what here instead of their thoughts about Marquette basketball?
Quote from: tower912 on January 23, 2011, 01:18:45 PM
And here in a nutshell, we have the essence of fandom. On one board, we have an experienced poster swearing the problem is that Buzz played too many people in the preseason, needs to settle on a 7 man rotation. Here, we have another poster of nearly the same vintage swearing the problem is that we never play the 9th man. Hmmmmm. We have one poster coming out of hibernation to ask if Cadougan has ever made a contribution, whereas elsewhere we have stats showing that his assist to turnover ratio is among the best in the BEast. Buzz's problem is that we defend too far from the basket, we don't use enough players, we should press, we don't zone, we play the wrong kind of man-to-man, we use too many players, we aren't big enough, we should go small, Buzz can't develop youth, he should play more youth, we're inexerienced, Buzz doesn't know how to use timeouts, stop runs, would stop runs if he just played the 9th/10th/11th guys more, ran off Reggie, can't recruit, can recruit, can't coach, can coach offense, can't coach D, needs to hire a Keady type, Jimmy is weak, Jimmy is a standup guy, Buycks is the most improved, Buycks has too much playground......blahbity blahbity blahbity. We lost a road game to a ranked team we could have beaten. It sucks. Let's beat UConn.
Agree with all of this. Sad.
The essence of fandom. Like Syracuse fans screaming because the Orange aren't going undefeated. Like NE fans wondering if Brady and Belichik have lost it. Like getting in Coach Roy's face on his radio show. It is the beauty and the curse of the internet age. Everybody has an opinion, many with diametrically opposed answers to the same question, sure beyond any rational belief they have the answer more than the coach. So immensely large and yet so small all at the same time. A year ago, we were 11-8, had lost to DePaul, etc. Somehow, this is worse? Why? Straddling the Majerus and Dukiet years, I know what it is like to fear Fordham coming to town. Or to have the sweater vests run a coach out, regardless of the official story. This fanbase disappoints me sometimes. That is what that diatribe means.
Quote from: MU Avenue on January 23, 2011, 08:29:45 PM
Your point is unclear, at least to me, tower912. You would prefer people post what here if not their thoughts about Marquette basketball?
You dismiss others' opinions and concerns as "blahbity, blahbity, blahbity" -- a word that I do not think exists, at least in our language.
You would prefer others post what here instead of their thoughts about Marquette basketball?
I think he's saying that he would prefer to read rational, coherent thoughts and opinions as opposed to rambling, ignorant overreactions based on small sample sizes. Unfortunately, this board is veering away from the former and more and more towards the latter.