No. Fans go around the bend after losses. New England fans calling for Brady to move on, etc. But if you think he should, state it here and say why. Sign your name to it. Man up. Quit the weak passive aggressive crap and state once and for all if you think he should go.
No, but that does not mean he cannot be criticized for some of his decisions.
Agreed. His team should have kept attacking on Saturday.
This thread is stupid. We aren't allowed to complain unless we think he should be fired?
What's the point of this board in your opinion?
Yes, you can criticize. But if some of the posts from the last couple days are to be believed, then there are posters here who think he should go. Here is their chance to make their points. And of all the ridiculous crap the last two days you call THIS one stupid? Wow.
No. Absolutely not.
The criticism is much deserved.
Buzz - please show us you are learning from your mistakes.
The non-game issues (such as Newbill situation) are more likely to get him canned than losing. And no, of course he shouldn't be fired. He's obviously not a great coach, though he may become one some day.
No, he should not be fired. He's a good coach, good recruiter. I think he needs to be smarter sometimes in how he handles players (on and off the court). He certainly needs some more seasoning as a bench coach as well, but not a chance he should be fired based on what he's accomplished thus far.
Yes, fans go off the deep end.....this popped up on the internets yesterday as just another example
http://www.redbubble.com/people/djklambake/t-shirts/6599018-1-fire-buzz-williams?utm_source=fb&utm_medium=wall&utm_content=new&utm_campaign=social
I have no idea who the artist Djklambake is, but in my alerts for MU, this popped up late last night.
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on January 17, 2011, 12:04:46 PM
No, he should not be fired. He's a good coach, good recruiter. I think he needs to be smarter sometimes in how he handles players (on and off the court). He certainly needs some more seasoning as a bench coach as well, but not a chance he should be fired based on what he's accomplished thus far.
Yes, fans go off the deep end.....this popped up on the internets yesterday as just another example
http://www.redbubble.com/people/djklambake/t-shirts/6599018-1-fire-buzz-williams?utm_source=fb&utm_medium=wall&utm_content=new&utm_campaign=social
I have no idea who the artist Djklambake is, but in my alerts for MU, this popped up late last night.
I'm glad http://www.buzzwilliams.com/ is still safe.
I am firmly in the Buzz is the man camp.
He took the air out of the ball way to early @ Louisville, leading to the very painful loss.
Anyone who thinks he should be fired is nuts.
Remember Rick Majerus.....many of us were happy as hell when he quit. (Yes, I was one of them) Then he went on to great success. Buzz does have some lessons to learn. He is a saavy guy. He'll learn.
No, but I believe next year he needs to hire a very experienced bench coach.
Better question ... who gets more out of the current line-up ... Buzz or Crean?
Quote from: willie warrior on January 17, 2011, 11:45:03 AM
No, but that does not mean he cannot be criticized for some of his decisions.
But we should have a coach who we do not trust, and who has not met our demands? You have criticized specifics, and that's fine. When you do that, you often show your insight, and that makes it easy for people to take your comment for what it's worth. When you throw out demands like, "Buzz must sign JP" or when you bash someone for saying "In Buzz We Trust" you make it sound like he is doing an unacceptable job, and is not trustworthy. It reaches a level where some say, "Hey, if you know of someone better or have other solutions please state them." I can look at Buzz's performance and state that I hope he finds ways to better close out games as his career progresses, or even that I don't trust him in close games, but that's different than making demands and making it seem as if I don't trust him period. It goes far beyond constructive criticism, and while the opinion of those on this board doesn't really matter, it's also fair to point out if certain people at MU or noted Alum had those feelings it could put Buzz in a situation where he feels he's best off to leave MU. My guess is in the next few years we (fans) are going to be talking about ways to keep him, not placing ridiculous demands on him, and Willie will find someone else to try and bring down. Enjoy life a little...
Quote from: AnotherMU84 on January 17, 2011, 12:12:14 PM
Better question ... who gets more out of the current line-up ... Buzz or Crean?
So glad another thread goes in this direction ::)
Here we go. Buzz may have some worts, but IMO, Crean has leprosy. You can treat the worts and they probably won't return, but leprosy, that crap'll kill you.
Buzz is a young coach and will make mistakes; but he has been very good to MU and we need to support him during good times and bad times. I remmber when Al made mistakes and MU stayed with him. Keep up the good work Buzz; you have my support.
Quote from: AnotherMU84 on January 17, 2011, 12:12:14 PM
Better question ... who gets more out of the current line-up ... Buzz or Crean?
unnatural carnal knowledge you for even asking this.
Quote from: avid1010 on January 17, 2011, 12:21:52 PM
But we should have a coach who we do not trust, and who has not met our demands? You have criticized specifics, and that's fine. When you do that, you often show your insight, and that makes it easy for people to take your comment for what it's worth. When you throw out demands like, "Buzz must sign JP" or when you bash someone for saying "In Buzz We Trust" you make it sound like he is doing an unacceptable job, and is not trustworthy. It reaches a level where some say, "Hey, if you know of someone better or have other solutions please state them." I can look at Buzz's performance and state that I hope he finds ways to better close out games as his career progresses, or even that I don't trust him in close games, but that's different than making demands and making it seem as if I don't trust him period. It goes far beyond constructive criticism, and while the opinion of those on this board doesn't really matter, it's also fair to point out if certain people at MU or noted Alum had those feelings it could put Buzz in a situation where he feels he's best off to leave MU. My guess is in the next few years we (fans) are going to be talking about ways to keep him, not placing ridiculous demands on him, and Willie will find someone else to try and bring down. Enjoy life a little...
Thank you for your opinion. We probably need to sit together like one party is proposing for the State of The Union so we may sing kumbaya together. You seem to miss the point that some people look at everything through rose colored glasses and are blissfully pleased when we slam a cupcake, but then want to quickly forget a meltdown.
Your guess is as good as mine as to what fans are going to be talking about to keep Buzz. I hope we remember that with the kind of money he is making that meltdowns like this should not happen. It was one of the biggest on record according to some of the info posted here.
Quote from: tower912 on January 17, 2011, 11:55:12 AM
Yes, you can criticize. But if some of the posts from the last couple days are to be believed, then there are posters here who think he should go. Here is their chance to make their points. And of all the ridiculous crap the last two days you call THIS one stupid? Wow.
I guess that some of those posters are entitled to their opinion. I haven't seen too many asking for Buzz to be fired--just a lot of disappointment in decision making. But people are entitled to their opinion--unless somebody else has thought police power.
Quote from: AnotherMU84 on January 17, 2011, 12:12:14 PM
Better question ... who gets more out of the current line-up ... Buzz or Crean?
A Crean line up would not have this much depth
Quote from: tower912 on January 17, 2011, 11:55:12 AM
But if some of the posts from the last couple days are to be believed, then there are posters here who think he should go.
I haven't read every post over the past 2-3 days. Could you link to a post where someone is suggesting Buzz be fired?
I guess I've read a lot about people blaming the coach for this epic choke-job, but I never read anyone saying anything close to "he should be fired." .. So if you could point that out, it'd be appreciated.
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on January 17, 2011, 12:36:30 PM
So glad another thread goes in this direction ::)
The irony in your lamentation of someone beating a dead horse is so thick it is suffocating.
Quote from: warthog-driver on January 17, 2011, 01:24:15 PM
A Crean line up would not have this much depth
This is depth? We only play 7 guys with any regularity - DJO, Butler, Buycks, Crowder, Otule, Blue, and Cadougan.
Quote from: MUCam on January 17, 2011, 01:35:53 PM
The irony in your lamentation of someone beating a dead horse is so thick it is suffocating.
My post had nothing to do with a deadhorse or the topic.
I was simply showing again how 99% of the time when these threads start to introduce our former coach, it sure as hell isn't me starting it but I'll get blamed for it anyway by the same 4 or 5 people.
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on January 17, 2011, 01:41:02 PM
My post had nothing to do with a deadhorse or the topic.
I was simply showing again how 99% of the time when these threads start to introduce our former coach, it sure as hell isn't me starting it but I'll get blamed for it anyway by the same 4 or 5 people.
Chicos once again playing the victim in a thread where noone has blamed him or will blame him for anything.
Quote from: mu_hilltopper on January 17, 2011, 01:34:56 PM
I haven't read every post over the past 2-3 days. Could you link to a post where someone is suggesting Buzz be fired?
I guess I've read a lot about people blaming the coach for this epic choke-job, but I never read anyone saying anything close to "he should be fired." .. So if you could point that out, it'd be appreciated.
Just running it up the flagpole to see who salutes.
Quote from: willie warrior on January 17, 2011, 01:16:50 PM
We probably need to sit together like one party is proposing for the State of The Union so we may sing kumbaya together.
Good analogy. Throughout the history of the USA you would be the party that is not in charge, but demands perfect results from the opposing party, while clearly not understanding the topics at hand, let alone offering any ideas on how to solve the issues at hand. You do this to the point that one questions whether or not you can truly care about your country (team), or just care about your own agenda, and when that concern is raised you jump up and down and wonder how anyone can make such an accusation. Are you Nancy or Newt?
Quote from: tower912 on January 17, 2011, 02:04:15 PM
Just running it up the flagpole to see who salutes.
I hate that kind of gross exaggeration. So, in short, no one made those statements, yet you've posted a thread suggesting they have. That's really not helpful.
Buzz shouldn't be fired, but he should start learning from incidents like this. We've seen this tale play itself out three times now. Huge second-half leads evaporate into a crushing loss, each time with something on the line (Old Spice tourney title, NCAA second round, and it's freaking Louisville). Not to mention giving away other games that seemed to have been won (West Virginia, Notre Dame, Vandy).
My honest assessment of this team is that they should be 16-2 right now. Due to various lapses, we're 12-6. I think for the most part that's on our head coach. He's brought in a great roster. He motivates them and gets them going for every game. But he doesn't get them to finish it out.
We need to start finishing those games this year, but more importantly, we need to start finishing those games next year in November. This team has decent experience, but Buzz needs to make sure that guys like Blue, DJO, Crowder, Wilson, Cadougan, and the rest of the guys that will be around next fall are learning from what's going wrong with this team. I don't mind mistakes. I may hate seeing a loss snatched from the jaws of victory like we have done far too often, but I can live with it as long as we learn from it. In the past two years, we've seen it blatantly happen at least 6 times I'd say. The first year, I'll call it chance. The second year, we can call it coincidence. I just don't want to see throwing away wins become something that Marquette considers a trend.
It's silly to talk about Buzz being fired. I'm a fan of Buzz, he's a very good recruiter, and I think he's learning to coach. Still things to learn of course, we can continue to hope he learns them.
My question, as I can't read every post on here and immediately ignore threads that devolve into Buzz vs. I4, is this:
Has Buzz come out and taken any responsibility for the loss? It would make me feel MUCH better about the future of his coaching progress if I were to hear him say "Yeah, in retrospect it was probably way to early to start trying to slow the game down. We were walking all over them with 5+ minutes left, had them on their heels and were beating them silly on both sides of the ball, and then we backed off. We'll learn, or at least I will learn, in the future, that when you get a good opponent down that far, you need to step on their necks and put them out of their misery rather than back off and give them a little life. By the time I tried get our boys to just start playing again, Knowles had gotten hot and the cat was out of the bag. Won't happen again."
A fella can dream.........
Quote from: warriors1991 on January 17, 2011, 03:12:16 PM
My question, as I can't read every post on here and immediately ignore threads that devolve into Buzz vs. I4, is this:
Has Buzz come out and taken any responsibility for the loss? It would make me feel MUCH better about the future of his coaching progress if I were to hear him say "Yeah, in retrospect it was probably way to early to start trying to slow the game down. We were walking all over them with 5+ minutes left, had them on their heels and were beating them silly on both sides of the ball, and then we backed off. We'll learn, or at least I will learn, in the future, that when you get a good opponent down that far, you need to step on their necks and put them out of their misery rather than back off and give them a little life. By the time I tried get our boys to just start playing again, Knowles had gotten hot and the cat was out of the bag. Won't happen again."
He said about a quarter of what you did, but he did take the blame:
"We did not finish the game with poise," Marquette coach Buzz Williams said. "We did not play with the same sort of mentality that we had played with up until that point. That is my fault more than it is anybody else's."
Quote from: mu_hilltopper on January 17, 2011, 02:20:16 PM
I hate that kind of gross exaggeration. So, in short, no one made those statements, yet you've posted a thread suggesting they have. That's really not helpful.
Actually, I was trying to defuse the board by putting a straightforward question out there so we could have a discussion about it. Please note that no one has come out and said they want him fired and only one has even insinuated mildly in that direction.
Quote from: warthog-driver on January 17, 2011, 01:24:15 PM
A Crean line up would not have this much depth
What depth?
We only have 7 players averaging more than 10 mpg on the season. In conference we're relying even more on the top 7--even in a blowout.
In the 21 point win over ND, we actually had our top 7 account for 188 of 200 minutes. That's 94% of available minutes. Against Rutgers our top 7 only had 183 minutes, and against Pitt our top 7 had 181. And these are the games we went deep into the bench.
Against Louisville, our top 7 played 192 of 200 minutes. Against WVU our top 7 played 193 of the 200 minutes.
I think the "we have the deepest team in years" argument has been way overplayed.
Yeah, but Murf is thrilled because we used way too many guys in the preseason. ::)
Quote from: avid1010 on January 17, 2011, 02:11:11 PM
Good analogy. Throughout the history of the USA you would be the party that is not in charge, but demands perfect results from the opposing party, while clearly not understanding the topics at hand, let alone offering any ideas on how to solve the issues at hand. You do this to the point that one questions whether or not you can truly care about your country (team), or just care about your own agenda, and when that concern is raised you jump up and down and wonder how anyone can make such an accusation. Are you Nancy or Newt?
I understand as much as you, just do not pretend like you do.
Quote from: Marquette84 on January 17, 2011, 03:58:47 PM
What depth?
We only have 7 players averaging more than 10 mpg on the season. In conference we're relying even more on the top 7--even in a blowout.
In the 21 point win over ND, we actually had our top 7 account for 188 of 200 minutes. That's 94% of available minutes. Against Rutgers our top 7 only had 183 minutes, and against Pitt our top 7 had 181. And these are the games we went deep into the bench.
Against Louisville, our top 7 played 192 of 200 minutes. Against WVU our top 7 played 193 of the 200 minutes.
I think the "we have the deepest team in years" argument has been way overplayed.
I think the difference would be very apparent in the event (god forbid) one of our core guys goes down with an injury. At most positions, we have a very talented backup. Certainly a more talented backup than we've had the luxury of having in recent times, due to transfer and injury.
Talent alone does not equal consistent results, but at least we've got someone we can throw into the fire who has demonstrated at some level that they can play.
Hopefully the depth of the team is not really tested in this way.
No Buzz should not be fired. It is silly to even suggest it.
If he runs a clean program and gets us into the NCAA with some regularity, that's fine by me.
I've liked Buzz all along, and firing seems inappropriate at this juncture. I like his enthusiasm, I like his energy, I like the ways he gets his guys to play hard. I have never thought he was a good game-management guy - he needs to show IMPROVEMENT in this regard and to be honest, I'm not seeing it. When he took the air out of the ball, the team looked like they didn't know what they were doing. The repeated gaffes on defense in the final seconds are not acceptable. I know it's only his third year and he's still learning but this is an area that is a deficiency and it's like a cornerback getting beat - it's right out in the open for all to see. My hope is that he's a smart enough guy and a proud enough guy to work on this problem, get better at it, and be at MU for a long time.
Should tower912 be banned?
I don't think so. Lots of people disagreed with him recently and criticized this thread. So if you do, man up, stop beating around the bush and say so.
Quote from: RawdogDX on January 17, 2011, 05:52:09 PMShould tower912 be banned?
I don't think so. Lots of people disagreed with him recently and criticized this thread. So if you do, man up, stop beating around the bush and say so.
I don't think tower should be banned. I think that his comments in here were tongue in cheek enough that we can overlook them and keep him around, but he should start learning from incidents like this.
Now that would be funny.
Quote from: tower912 on January 17, 2011, 06:05:26 PMNow that would be funny.
I guess you must be the next nomorebuycks of MUScoop ;D
No way fired but he needs better surrounding cast of basketball minds sitting next to him. Recruiting is great and he can get players. He also has proved winning close games just does not happen often enough. All great coaches have great staffs and Buzz needs help. One note in my opinion is Buzz is no longer young coach. In today's sports world he is middle aged.
I would think with Strong's history of having smart people around him that Buzz will get resources he needs. I say overpay for an experienced former head coach to join staff.
Quote from: willie warrior on January 17, 2011, 04:59:04 PM
I understand as much as you, just do not pretend like you do.
I'm not the one making demands of Buzz or making fun of those who say "in Buzz we trust." Like I said a million times...offer a solution. You offer non...just empty complaints and demands. That's not discussion, that's complaining. I didn't realize this board was for people to post complaints about MU basketball, I thought it was a place for fans to debate issues and play Monday morning quaterback.
I know this thread wasn't started in the spirit of Tower thinking Buzz should be fired - but if any here even think he should be anywhere even remotely close to a "hot seat" - sorry, but you are a complete idiot. The overreaction of many MU fans is naseuating. It was a BAD loss to Lville, yes. MU has had some heartbreaking losses in the Buzz regime thus far.
Let's maintain some perspective and realize Buzz is 38 years old and only in year 3 as MU's head coach. We were picked 12th in the Big East last pre-season - we all know we vastly exceeded expectations. MU84 might argue he projected a 5th place finish based on the talent of the team - Butler, DJO, Buycks combined with the remaining "talent" of Mo Acker and David Cubiallan and Lazar. Without Butler and DJO at minimum..no way MU makes the NCAA last year. Who got them here? Buzz.
This year's team will be an NCAA team. Period. Might even break through to a Sweet 16 appearance. We have more talent on the roster than at any time since Al McGuire. We will likely be better next year. Some here bitch about Buzz recruiting JUCO's - yet our JUCO's have been great players and great kids. Some people just like to bitch to bitch. Buzz makes mistakes just like every coach does - but for those perfect armchair fans out there that are perfect - get a grip...
Not sure I agree on most talented team but big believer in JUCO route. For MU to compete at a high level we have to bring kids who can play at high level and do so quickly. I have no problem with JUCO route and think Buzz has mastered blending these guys into the program.
Quote from: Goose on January 17, 2011, 08:20:31 PM
Not sure I agree on most talented team but big believer in JUCO route. For MU to compete at a high level we have to bring kids who can play at high level and do so quickly. I have no problem with JUCO route and think Buzz has mastered blending these guys into the program.
I think there are pros and cons to anything. It's hard to say where we would be without our JUCO's as it's impossible to say who Buzz would have recruited instead; however, I don't believe Buycks makes the dumb move he did the other night if he's a 4-year senior rather than a 2-year senior....imho.
Quote from: avid1010 on January 17, 2011, 07:59:39 PMI'm not the one making demands of Buzz or making fun of those who say "in Buzz we trust." Like I said a million times...offer a solution.
I know this wasn't aimed at me, but I think that adding an assistant with head coaching experience, like Lavin has done at St. John's with Keady, would be a great solution. The odds are that we won't get anyone that high profile, but I think there are probably some veteran experienced D3 guys who could even help when it comes to just the X's and O's, which seems to be all Buzz really needs a hand with.
Quote from: Ners on January 17, 2011, 08:07:34 PMThis year's team will be an NCAA team. Period. Might even break through to a Sweet 16 appearance. We have more talent on the roster than at any time since Al McGuire. We will likely be better next year. Some here bitch about Buzz recruiting JUCO's - yet our JUCO's have been great players and great kids. Some people just like to bitch to bitch. Buzz makes mistakes just like every coach does - but for those perfect armchair fans out there that are perfect - get a grip...
Agreed on most of this, except that first line. There's no way at this point we can know that. Right now we have 2 quality wins. That's not enough. We have no true quality road wins. I would say we need 4 quality wins at the minimum, and one needs to be on the road. If we take two of the four after DePaul, we're in good shape. If not, we will have to win either at UConn or Georgetown and we cannot afford the annual bad loss that plagues us. 10-8 in the Big East isn't anywhere near security this year, especially if our best win from here on out is Cincinnati or St. John's.
Quote from: tower912 on January 17, 2011, 11:49:38 AM
Agreed. His team should have kept attacking on Saturday.
Except for Dwight "NoMore" Buycks drive to the hoop in the waning seconds.
Quote from: Ners on January 17, 2011, 08:07:34 PM
This year's team will be an NCAA team. Period. Might even break through to a Sweet 16 appearance. We have more talent on the roster than at any time since Al McGuire.
This team does not have more talent than the 2003 Final Four team. That team had three future NBA players. This team doesn't even have the same talent as the 1994 Sweet 16 team.
If we make the NCAA tournament, it will be as a low seed and we'll be out in the first round.
Quote from: Ners on January 17, 2011, 08:07:34 PM
We have more talent on the roster than at any time since Al McGuire. We will likely be better next year.
no way... wade and jackson + 3 > MU now
Quote from: The Sultan of South Wayne on January 17, 2011, 09:02:18 PMThis team does not have more talent than the 2003 Final Four team. That team had three future NBA players. This team doesn't even have the same talent as the 1994 Sweet 16 team.
If we make the NCAA tournament, it will be as a low seed and we'll be out in the first round.
I expect Butler will be an NBA draft pick, probably in the second round. Both DJO and Crowder seem to have done enough to be in-line to head to the NBA. Granted he hasn't shown the same skillset of Novak, but I think that Blue has shown as much talent as a freshman as Novak did on that 2003 team, and that's not mentioning that Mellow still has years in front of him to possibly show that he can also play at the next level. I don't know that this team is as well-rounded, nor that it has the same talent level at certain key positions (Jackson and Diener come to mind), and as far as that one superstar we certainly don't have anyone who has proven to be Wade-like, but in overall talent, I think this team may have more, especially if the ultimate arbiter is how many end up playing in the NBA.
Quote from: Ners on January 17, 2011, 08:07:34 PM
I know this thread wasn't started in the spirit of Tower thinking Buzz should be fired - but if any here even think he should be anywhere even remotely close to a "hot seat" - sorry, but you are a complete idiot. The overreaction of many MU fans is naseuating. It was a BAD loss to Lville, yes. MU has had some heartbreaking losses in the Buzz regime thus far.
Let's maintain some perspective and realize Buzz is 38 years old and only in year 3 as MU's head coach. We were picked 12th in the Big East last pre-season - we all know we vastly exceeded expectations. MU84 might argue he projected a 5th place finish based on the talent of the team - Butler, DJO, Buycks combined with the remaining "talent" of Mo Acker and David Cubiallan and Lazar. Without Butler and DJO at minimum..no way MU makes the NCAA last year. Who got them here? Buzz.
This year's team will be an NCAA team. Period. Might even break through to a Sweet 16 appearance. We have more talent on the roster than at any time since Al McGuire. We will likely be better next year. Some here bitch about Buzz recruiting JUCO's - yet our JUCO's have been great players and great kids. Some people just like to bitch to bitch. Buzz makes mistakes just like every coach does - but for those perfect armchair fans out there that are perfect - get a grip...
Very well said overall. This "firing" talk I heard from more than a few people this past weekend is just over the top and absurd.
Late game issues and all, sorry, coaches with 69% career win percentages (63% in Big East games so far) and the ability to pull in top high school and JUCO talent from all over the United States are not "dime a dozen" in the same fashion that a very notorious poster here once applied towards a legendary Marquette point guard.
If some here are not happy to have Buzz, I'm sure there's about 300 other D1 programs in the country that would be happy to take someone of that pedigree off our hands. We're not Kentucky fans and can go out and hire the hottest coach in the land (Calipari) two years after running out a great coach (Tubby Smith) and blowing the next two seasons (Gillispie) because we got too greedy as fans.
We've been VERY fortunate to have two great hires in a row with Crean and Buzz, but remember, any Big East program is one bad coaching hire away from the basement, and a potential long-term stay there (see: DePaul). Warts and all, Buzz has a good thing going, and we should hope he sees that and keeps to his word and stays as long as we'll have him.
I love this year's team, but if anybody thinks they are better than the '03 team they should watch this:
http://vault.ncaa.com/?game=306SR053_s01&timecode=00:00:03:77
Keep in mind that Kentucky was the consensus #1 team in the country at that time, and even with a less than 100% Bogans were crazy talented. But MU had Diener, Novak, Jackson, Wade, and Merritt in the the starting rotation (all Top 100 recruits except Wade and that's just b/c of his academic issues). Add to that Karon Bradley (another Top 100 recruit), Townsend, Chapman, and Sanders and you've got a team that can go nine deep with no holes weaknesses.
Quote from: The Sultan of South Wayne on January 17, 2011, 09:02:18 PM
This team does not have more talent than the 2003 Final Four team. That team had three future NBA players. This team doesn't even have the same talent as the 1994 Sweet 16 team.
If we make the NCAA tournament, it will be as a low seed and we'll be out in the first round.
I guess I kind of overlooked the Final Four team...but...take away Wade..and the Final Four team was probably a first round exit NCAA team at best. We saw what happened after DWade and RJax were gone - NIT first round losses..
I genuinely believe this year's team will win their first round NCAA game. They will make the NCAA. Too much talent and too good offensively and can cause too many problems offensively to NOT make NCAA.
Quote from: Ners on January 17, 2011, 10:14:32 PM
I guess I kind of overlooked the Final Four team...but...take away Wade..and the Final Four team was probably a first round exit NCAA team at best. We saw what happened after DWade and RJax were gone - NIT first round losses..
I genuinely believe this year's team will win their first round NCAA game. They will make the NCAA. Too much talent and too good offensively and can cause too many problems offensively to NOT make NCAA.
Too much talent?
Too good offensively?
I hope you're right, but I don't see this talent overload that you do, and the lack of consistent shooting makes each and every game a crapshoot, imo.
As far as being fired, of course not. But how long does Buzz get to figure out how to coach defense and become better than inept at late game X's and O's? Seriously, how long does his on-the-job training last?
Buzz's recruiting may be good, but he's not getting superstars that have the talent level to overcome his poor game management.
Wow, we've gone from wondering how in the world MU would compete when they joined the Big East to asking whether a coach should be fired (though I understand the points was that he shouldn'it) after destroying one ranked team and losing by another on the road by 1 point.
Nice to see that undefeated Syracuse also did exactly as well as MU did at the Peterson Center tonight - an 8 point loss.
I believe the initial post makes the point though - it may be worthwhile for UNC, Kansas or Kentucky to complain anytime their coach has any hiccup because they will always be in the running for the top coach in the country. We have a great tradition, but we ain't there. I consider us very blessed to have Buzz, and hope we has a very long career here.
Quote from: warriors1965 on January 17, 2011, 10:56:48 PM
Too much talent?
Too good offensively?
I hope you're right, but I don't see this talent overload that you do, and the lack of consistent shooting makes each and every game a crapshoot, imo.
As far as being fired, of course not. But how long does Buzz get to figure out how to coach defense and become better than inept at late game X's and O's? Seriously, how long does his on-the-job training last?
Buzz may be a poor in game coach, but this team is hardly an inconsistent shooting team. They're 13th in the country in offensive efficiency, and 35th in effective field goal percentage (including 24th in 2pt FG%). This team is exceptional at shooting the ball, the problem is they couldn't stop Centenary if their NCAA tourney lives depended on it.
Quote from: warriors1965 on January 17, 2011, 10:56:48 PMI hope you're right, but I don't see this talent overload that you do, and the lack of consistent shooting makes each and every game a crapshoot, imo.
I think there's a bit of a disconnect on this board regarding talent. The bottom line is that talent does not automatically translate into wins. The best basketball example ever was Derrick Coleman. In terms of size, strength, and pure talent, he should have been one of the five best players in the history of the game. But he simply didn't have what it took in terms of work ethic. As Sports Illustrated famously said, "Coleman could have been the best power forward ever; instead he played just well enough to ensure his next paycheck."
Looking at this year's Marquette team, the talent is evident. Obviously Butler, Crowder, and DJO are high-level talents that produce on pretty much a nightly basis. Blue has incredible raw ability, but isn't yet polished. And I think it's accepted that Cadougan, Williams, and Jones, both top 100 recruits, have great talent. Even Gardner and Buycks this year have shown to be far more talented than anyone really gave them credit for coming into the season.
Add in two incredibly hard workers in Otule and Fulce and you have all the ingredients for the type of team that could challenge for a Big East crown and make a deep tournament run. But talent alone doesn't win games. All you have to do is look at teams like George Mason from a few years ago to see that there's more to winning than raw athletic ability. One guy in the D-League and that team went to the Final Four.
Buzz needs to learn what is best in life:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V30tyaXv6EI
I hope to God Buzz doesn't get fired anytime soon - it would ruin this board! It's already tough enough with Buzz vs. Crean, let's not let another guy into the mix just yet!
I had previously mentioned that Buzz might benefit from having a bench coach, akin to what Keady is doing. On another thread Stone Cold suggested getting a coach to be a defensive specialist. There are already so many guys in suits massing around the team during TO's that I was looking for the casket. Who are all those guys and what are their jobs?
Quote from: mileskishnish72 on January 18, 2011, 07:13:03 AM
I had previously mentioned that Buzz might benefit from having a bench coach, akin to what Keady is doing. On another thread Stone Cold suggested getting a coach to be a defensive specialist. There are already so many guys in suits massing around the team during TO's that I was looking for the casket. Who are all those guys and what are their jobs?
Buzz has Lewis Orr as his mentor, quality coach paid for by MU. He attends most home games and sits on the press table near the bench and provides Buzz feedback after the games
.
http://navarrocollege.edu/athletics.php?sport=Basketball&id=40
Other head coaches on staff are Bart Lundy, DBO, and Scott Monarch, who was a head coach at a lower level. Tony Benford was an Associate Head Coach at Arizona State. Aki Collins is another assistant. Brad Autry, a former Bill Self assistant at Tulsa, is charge of Student-Athlete Development. I think Buzz is younger than all except Aki. You can read their bios below. Very, very solid staff.
http://www.gomarquette.com/sports/m-baskbl/mtt/marq-m-baskbl-mtt.html
Quote from: Ners on January 17, 2011, 10:14:32 PM
I guess I kind of overlooked the Final Four team...but...take away Wade..and the Final Four team was probably a first round exit NCAA team at best. We saw what happened after DWade and RJax were gone - NIT first round losses..
News Alert!!! You take the best player off of a team, and they are likely to be worse!!!
C'mon....
Lewis (not Louis of Siena and Seton Hall) Orr should be moved closer to Buzz than the press table so he could help Buzz with game flow during games, not give him feedback after them.
My guess is that he cannot do any coaching during games given the limits on the number of coaches on the payroll.
After reading the Bios, it would appear that Lundy has the most credentials of anyone on staff and is the same age as Buzz. I didn't know the guy had over 200 wins as a head coach. I think that Coach Williams is a far better in game coach than given credit for on this board. One stop late game or one better decision by any player over the last 3 min. of Saturdays game and this conversation doesn't take place. I suggest that it is yesterdays topic so lets move on.
Quote from: warriors1965 on January 17, 2011, 10:56:48 PM
Too much talent?
Too good offensively?
I hope you're right, but I don't see this talent overload that you do, and the lack of consistent shooting makes each and every game a crapshoot, imo.
As far as being fired, of course not. But how long does Buzz get to figure out how to coach defense and become better than inept at late game X's and O's? Seriously, how long does his on-the-job training last?
Buzz's recruiting may be good, but he's not getting superstars that have the talent level to overcome his poor game management.
I believe it is this type of opinion that the original poster was referring to. Are you explicity asking for Buzz to be fired? No. Are you implying Buzz should be on some type of hot seat? Yes. Is it ridiculous considering the guy has won 63% of his games in the Big East. Absolutely. MU is playing in the premier league in college basketball. You are going to have some gut wrenching losses. Lville was the worst, yes..but come on. Hell Roy Williams couldn't get UNC to the NCAA last year. We just beat a ranked ND team by 22. Appeared to have the same ability against Lville and it slipped away on the road. We controlled a game against WVU who is a Top 25 caliber team.
I hope you are right, but we need to start winning some of these type games against big time opponents, instead of the other way around.
From what I saw yesterday, Pitt is definitely the best in the league and better than us, but I think we have a good chance against the rest of the league teams. But by the same token, some of the lower tier teams could beat us--life in the BEast. We need two and probably three wins against Syracuse, ND, UConn, Villanova, St. John's, Georgetown. Until we start beating some of those, we will still question some of Buzz's decision making.
Quote from: willie warrior on January 18, 2011, 09:33:52 AM
I hope you are right, but we need to start winning some of these type games against big time opponents, instead of the other way around.
From what I saw yesterday, Pitt is definitely the best in the league and better than us, but I think we have a good chance against the rest of the league teams. But by the same token, some of the lower tier teams could beat us--life in the BEast. We need two and probably three wins against Syracuse, ND, UConn, Villanova, St. John's, Georgetown. Until we start beating some of those, we will still question some of Buzz's decision making.
Agree willie. I also would put Syracuse in that tier of teams who are "better than us". However, just as MU/Nova/Uconn (2nd tier) teams have a chance of losing to the lower level teams--life in BEast...Pitt/Cuse have a chance of losing to the 2nd tier teams...but they are just too good of teams to lose to the "lower level" teams this year, IMO.
I think Nova/St. Johns could be a gough match-ups for us. I like our chances against Uconn (at home) and woul love nothing more than yo beat ND at the Joyce Center - which isnt a gimme by any means.
Quote from: The Sultan of South Wayne on January 17, 2011, 09:02:18 PM
This team does not have more talent than the 2003 Final Four team. That team had three future NBA players. This team doesn't even have the same talent as the 1994 Sweet 16 team.
If we make the NCAA tournament, it will be as a low seed and we'll be out in the first round.
Maybe you forgot last years team was 11-8 at one point and everyone was panicking as well.
2009-2010 2010-2011
1. @ WV 1. Duke
2. @ Nova 2. @ Vandy
3. @ 'Cuse 3. @ Pitt
4. Nova 4. Gonzaga
5. @ Wis 5. Wis
6. FSU 6. Louisville
7. NCST
8. @ DePaul
Id say that this years team is still off to a better start and I am not concerned about them making the tourny because theyve aready fought through it before and proved a lot of people wrong. I wouldnt be surprised if this team hit the sweet 16, at all.
Last year, when we were 11-8, we went 9-1 in our next ten against these opponents: Rutgers, @UConn, DePaul, @Providence, South Florida, Pitt (L), @Cincy, @St. Johns, @Seton Hall, Louisville.
Our schedule was completely front-loaded.
Now we are heading into the meat of our schedule...at Louisville (which was Sat.), at Notre Dame, at St. Johns, at Georgetown, Syracuse, UConn...
Not going to be easy.
Quote from: Galway03 on January 18, 2011, 09:08:58 AM
After reading the Bios, it would appear that Lundy has the most credentials of anyone on staff and is the same age as Buzz. I didn't know the guy had over 200 wins as a head coach. I think that Coach Williams is a far better in game coach than given credit for on this board. One stop late game or one better decision by any player over the last 3 min. of Saturdays game and this conversation doesn't take place. I suggest that it is yesterdays topic so lets move on.
This conversation still takes place if we blow an 18 point lead and win by 1 - it's just not as well attended or severe.
Quote from: The Sultan of South Wayne on January 18, 2011, 07:45:47 AM
News Alert!!! You take the best player off of a team, and they are likely to be worse!!! C'mon....
The Western Michigan debacle was a very low point in Marquette history. What a magnificent, tragic fall.