Kevin O'Neill's teams were strong defensively, sluggish offensively. Mike Deane's teams were tough, but under-talented once O'Neill's players moved along. Tom Crean's teams were defensively strong and offensively predictable, while focusing on strong rebounding...
And Buzz's teams are aggressive, run and gun units that attack the hoop. But they approach defense and rebounding as an afterthought. It was that way briefly at New Orleans, and it's that way now. We saw it against Washington last year in the tournament and repeatedly this year. Teams are never uncomfortable playing against Buzz's defense as we now do very little to disrupt opponents on the floor.
We might outscore teams to win, but we don't rough them up en route to that win. So long as defense is a secondary concern for Buzz, MU will never be a consistent, major player in the Big East.
What worries me the most is that someone like JFB, who is in his third year under Buzz, is not a great defender. A couple years ago, if you would have told me that we'd score 81 points at Pitt, I would have thought "blow out win." Now? Notsomuch...
Quote from: The Sultan of South Wayne on January 09, 2011, 06:38:22 AM
A couple years ago, if you would have told me that we'd score 81 points at Pitt, I would have thought "blow out win." Now? Notsomuch...
Let me rephrase your statement .... A couple years ago, if you would have told me that we'd score 81 points on the eventual national champs home court that were 47 - 1 before we arrived, I would have thought "blow out win." Now? Notsomuch...
I'm not predicting Pitt is going to win it all, but they are that good. If we "blew out" Pitt yesterday at home, their would have been those here that posted we are capable of making the final four. Those predictions would have been correct.
Can we give Pitt's offense some credit? They moved the ball and shot incredible well. As I said in another post, I'm not sure Duke could have beaten them yesterday.
As Sugar wrote in his post the other day, MU is an elite offense. Maybe better than any offense we have ever seen in the last several years. They are a so so defense which I attribute to the lack of familiarity with each other. It's been noted many other places that Jae, VB, DG, Junior and Outle are essentially new to the team this year. So, even DJO, DB, JFB and JF have to learn to play with them on defense.
I have faith they will learn to play defense and, in fact, I see improvement from a month ago. Have faith our defense will be much better in late February/March than now. And, if our offense remains the same, we can be a real force
Can you point out the portions of our defense that have improved? Nothing is jumping out at me.
Quote from: The Sultan of South Wayne on January 09, 2011, 06:38:22 AMWhat worries me the most is that someone like JFB, who is in his third year under Buzz, is not a great defender. A couple years ago, if you would have told me that we'd score 81 points at Pitt, I would have thought "blow out win." Now? Notsomuch...
Well, to be fair, one thing I think a lot of people are overlooking is that this is Jaime Dixon's best offense at Pitt. I don't even think it's really close. In the past we've been in scrappy affairs with them that ended in the 60s or 70s. They're averaging 81.2 ppg this season. This after averaging 72-71-74-77-69 over the past five years. Our defense definitely has holes, I can't argue that, but Pitt also has a very, very good offense, right on par with our own.
However, we will likely have turnover next year. Lose our senior starting point guard that got better consistently as the season went on. Lose our best all-around player in JFB. Lose our glue-guy in Fulce. Couldn't that lead to just as much roster upheaval? Or are we more settled because Blue and Caddy are already getting time for Buycks position, Wilson, Williams, and Jones (potential JFB replacements) will all have experience in the system, and we have a deeper all-around team to offset the loss of Fulce?
Brew, good question that I have been thinking a lot about lately. Interesting lineup question next year. I will assume Otule in the main 5 but know that it could be DG if he progresses as we all hope.
DJO
Vander
Crowder
Ewill
Otule
DJO
Vander
JJ
Crowder
Otule
Junior
DJO
Vander
Crowder
Otule
I really like that first lineup. But who knows. Based on playing time this year Buzz may not think Ewill is ever going to get real minutes. I like the idea of DJO and Blue playing point by comittee. It makes our lineup much bigger and more fit to play tuff in BE play. The way it is playing out I would bet the last lineup is next years main 5 with DW, JJ, Ewill, JA, and DG comming off the bench. If by next years BE season he is down to an 8.3 man rotation again, Ewill might be in trouble again. This doesn't even take into consideration 2 open roster spots that could be filled by more quality Juco's.
The more I think about it... If Buzz pulls an All-American juco 4 man for one of the 2 open spots. I would bet money Ewill is gone.
I echo MU84's thoughts. Duke actually came to mind when I was watching the Pitt game and it seemed to me that Pitt played a tougher game.
What worries me in the short run is how exhausted our kids are going to be for tomorrow night's game against ND. Our kids (DJO in particular) & even Buzz, looked exhausted at the tail end of yesterday's game. ND on the other hand ran over the Redmen/Storm and managed to rest a lot of their talent in the second half. If we don't recover well we could easily find ourselves trying to claw our way into a game at home.
JW or JJ over Ewill next year. I've not seen Ewill play a lot of minutes. When I have it looks like he has a nice stroke but he just doesn't look aggressive enough for BE play. I hope I'm wrong.
Quote from: silverback on January 09, 2011, 04:07:13 AM
Kevin O'Neill's teams were strong defensively, sluggish offensively. Mike Deane's teams were tough, but under-talented once O'Neill's players moved along. Tom Crean's teams were defensively strong and offensively predictable, while focusing on strong rebounding...
And Buzz's teams are aggressive, run and gun units that attack the hoop. But they approach defense and rebounding as an afterthought. It was that way briefly at New Orleans, and it's that way now. We saw it against Washington last year in the tournament and repeatedly this year. Teams are never uncomfortable playing against Buzz's defense as we now do very little to disrupt opponents on the floor.
We might outscore teams to win, but we don't rough them up en route to that win. So long as defense is a secondary concern for Buzz, MU will never be a consistent, major player in the Big East.
Agree with pretty much everything you wrote.
It's become apparent Buzz is not that good at teaching defensive fundamentals, which I refuse to believe have to go to the wayside because you want more shot output.
Prediction: Buzz will either hire a "defensive coordinator" to his staff/change his philosophy on tempo, defensive intensity or be gone in two or three years.
Total lack of help defense.
Marquette's defense against Pitt bothered me a lot too. Pitt had too many open outside shots; and when they would go underneath, we would not challenge them at all. Pitt made too many outside and inside shots without being challenged. Is our lack of defensive efficiency because of our playing or lack of size/strength? I think our biggest priority is that we need a strong, big man that can prevent easy shots underneath. We need to be more physical around the basket.
Quote from: chren21 on January 09, 2011, 08:36:34 AM
Brew, good question that I have been thinking a lot about lately. Interesting lineup question next year. I will assume Otule in the main 5 but know that it could be DG if he progresses as we all hope.
You completely forgot about Jamil Wilson I believe. Jamil will be a three year starter for us.
Quote from: Markaz3 on January 09, 2011, 08:44:23 AM
JW or JJ over Ewill next year. I've not seen Ewill play a lot of minutes. When I have it looks like he has a nice stroke but he just doesn't look aggressive enough for BE play. I hope I'm wrong.
I think JJ is going to be more of a guard type that will fill the hole left when DJO leaves after next year. What's going to be interesting is what we are going to do to back up the PG position...do we go with the freshman Wilson? Blue?
Quote from: Stone Cold on January 09, 2011, 09:00:52 AM
Agree with pretty much everything you wrote.
It's become apparent Buzz is not that good at teaching defensive fundamentals, which I refuse to believe have to go to the wayside because you want more shot output.
What is strange about this is that all the the yelling he was doing in the MU Basketball Unveiled videos was on the defensive end. So either those videos aren't an accurate reflection on what is actually going on, he isn't teaching the right stuff, or the players simply aren't picking it up.
We're arguing over an 8 pt loss to a team that could very well contend for the national title........oh and we played in their gym where they had a 17 game win streak going in and 47-1 in their last 48. Further, this team has probably been the best and most consistent team the past 10 years, so it's no easy out. Ridiculous!
Yes, we did give up 89 pts, many of which were open baskets, but when looking at both of our rosters, it's easy to undersand why. On top of everything I stated above, Pitt starts 3 seniors and 2 juniors...........MU starts a red-shirt sophomore and 4 junior college players that essentially are a D1 junior (Butler), sophomore (DJO, Buycks), and freshman (Crowder). If I add all of that up Pitt's starters have 13 years of D1 experience, while MU has a grand total of 5 (and that's counting Otule's freshman year where he played like 10 nonconf games). Check and mate for Pitt. I'm a big proponenet of upperclassmen leadership leading to success, so I suspect that even lesser programs that have that big of an advantage in experience would be a tough out for MU.......no less a program of Pitt's stature. (This is also why a think an overall less talented Badger team beat us in Dec.......it was an ugly game on both sides and the more experienced team came out on top).
All that said, we are still a very young team and will go through defensive lapses frequently as this team grows together. Fortunately, we are so talented offensively, we can get W's on that alone. If we start to figure things out defensively, we could be deadly!
Most likely scenario:
Blue
DJO
J Wilson
Crowder
Otule
Backed up by:
Cadougan, D Wilson
Jones
Anderson
EWill, JUCO PF
Gardner
+ player to be named later
+ Singleton
Note: we made Pitt look like a national championship contender. They and others will continue to look that way until we tighten up our D and stop giving them open looks.
Quote from: The Sultan of South Wayne on January 09, 2011, 09:29:45 AM
What is strange about this is that all the the yelling he was doing in the MU Basketball Unveiled videos was on the defensive end. So either those videos aren't an accurate reflection on what is actually going on, he isn't teaching the right stuff, or the players simply aren't picking it up.
I'm not sure it's what you teach but how you teach it.
Most coaches I've seen in football and basketball who have failed seem to have an idea what needs to be learned and improved on.
They sound like the successful coaches but they were obviously the ones who were ineffective in getting their teaching to generalize to the games.
Quote from: Stone Cold on January 09, 2011, 09:00:52 AM
Prediction: Buzz will either hire a "defensive coordinator" to his staff/change his philosophy on tempo, defensive intensity or be gone in two or three years.
Total lack of help defense.
The only way Buzz is gone in 2 or 3 years is if he leaves MU to take a "promotion" to an elite level program with a football team as well - such as Texas, Texas A&M, or any other hihg-profile football and basketball school.
Pretty sure that a lineup in 2-3 years featuring Vander Blue, Jamil Wilson, Davante Gardner, Jamail Jones, Juan Anderson...should produce some pretty solid results. To imply Buzz would get fired in 2 to 3 years is as moronic and idiotic as those who feel the sky is falling after Pitt put up 89 points on MU yesterday...as has been said..most talented offensive team in Dixon's career, at home where they've won 49 of 50, and shot the ball extremely well.
3 years is a long time ( I believe it's his contract year as well).
We keep getting worse statistically defensively our record will keep getting worse thus my prediction.
You seem to think Buzz is on a pedestal at MU, he hasn't reached that level yet among alums and most likely not with the AD, especially when the leaders and catalysts of his success to date are not his recruits.
I was probably one of the first fans to want Buzz to be the head man at MU, because I had heard a lot of good things about his recruiting at A&M from friends and then work ethic here. But the trends aren't looking good as far as defense.
Quote from: Stone Cold on January 09, 2011, 12:22:46 PM
3 years is a long time.
We keep getting worse statistically defensively our record will keep getting worse thus my prediction.
You seem to think Buzz is on a pedestal at MU, he hasn't reached that level yet among alums and most likely not with the AD, especially when the leaders and catalysts of his success to date are not his recruits.
I was probably one of the first fans to want Buzz to be the head man at MU, because I had heard a lot of good things about his recruiting at A&M from friends and then work ethic here. But the trends aren't looking good as far as defense.
Let's not jump off a cliff here because we aren't getting better statistically at defense. We do have an ELITE level offense...which is nothing to sneeze at. We do have some highly talented kids who are quite young in the fold and waiting in the wings. I respect your reply here Stone Cold, but I just don't see anyway MU fires Buzz in the next 2-3 years...I think there is a MUCH greater liklihood that another program will try to "steal" him away from MU. Let's not forget that in all of Buzz's time here..we've probably lost no more than 3 or 4 games by more than 9 points...out of a sample size of roughly 80 games.
I don't think Buzz is on a pedestal at MU...but let's step back from the ledge and look at everything big picture...we weree picked 12th in the Big East last year..nobody had us in the NCAA tourney..we were picked 8th to 11th for the Big East this year..I suspect we will exceed that, and finish somewhere in the 5 or 6 range. Sometimes it just seems the expectations here are WAY out of control..like we expect our team to be ranked in the Top 10 in all offensive and defensibe categories..which would likely make us Number 1 in the nation from a ranking perspective. This is YEAR 1 of Buzz having his guys...none of which have been in the program fore than 3 years - whereas Pitt had about 4 or 5 guys that have been in their program for 4 and 5 years already..
Quote from: Ners on January 09, 2011, 12:16:47 PM
The only way Buzz is gone in 2 or 3 years is if he leaves MU to take a "promotion" to an elite level program with a football team as well - such as Texas, Texas A&M, or any other hihg-profile football and basketball school.
I'm confused. I thought we were "elite" and we played in the best conference in the country? Plus he said he would stay as long as Marquette would have him.
Are you sending mixed signals now?
No way Buzz gets fired in 2-3 years unless the program goes off a cliff. On the other hand, no way Buzz gets offered an elite job unless his teams learn how to stay within 10 feet of its opponents on defense.
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on January 09, 2011, 01:14:45 PM
I'm confused. I thought we were "elite" and we played in the best conference in the country? Plus he said he would stay as long as Marquette would have him.
Are you sending mixed signals now?
Here you go again...but I'll indulge you with an answer: The point was that it is far more likely Buzz would get recruited out of MU in the next 2 or 3 years than he will get fired. My response was to Stone Cold who suggested MU would move on in 2 or 3 years if Buzz can't get his teams to play better D. We are in the best basketball playing conference at present.
I don't think Buzz will leave for "greener pastures" which would be a school that has a football team. As you know we at MU are in a precarious position due to not having a football team - with regard to conference realignment and football driving that bus.
I have said previously that the only place I could see Buzz leaving MU for would be Texas or Texas A&M - and what might drive him to do so are fans who have ridiculous expectations/criticisms of how he is handling the program...so keep up your efforts and you might get your wish Chicos!! Then we can see what sorry sack of a coach we get to come to MU...as we all know who we were turned down by for interviews before Buzz got the job..even though we were in the Big East, had the Al McGuire Center, and had some successs already in the Big East at that point..
Chicos casts his line and Ners bites again. :P
Quote from: KC2016 on January 09, 2011, 02:47:17 PM
Chicos casts his line and Ners bites again. :P
More like throwing a stick of dynamite into a pond.
Pitt is the best offensive team in the country according to Pomeroy.
We got blitzed no doubt......lets see how the rest of the year plays out.
Just one note about the defense yesterday. Yes, statistically it was bad, and I'm not going to argue that it was good as a whole. However, the couple minutes that MU pressured Pitt into something like 8 turnovers was impressive. I wasn't paying enough attention/haven't re-watched to see what MU was doing differently, but it was proof to me that they can play good defense. Perhaps it would take much more effort than is possible for 40min and the offense wouldn't be as good. But alas that would require more analysis than I'm willing to do right now :)
Quote from: MuMark on January 09, 2011, 03:10:18 PM
Pitt is the best offensive team in the country according to Pomeroy.
I'm not excusing the defense but is this thread a bunch of whining because we could not shut down the #1 rated offense in the country in their house?
If that is the standard, should Buzz be fired if we don't we the national championship this year?
It seems to me that Pittsburgh and other quality teams are taking advantage of our philosophy of doubling on the ball. That's not going to lead to as many problems for a tall veteran team as it does against lower RPI teams. It particularly leads to problems inside as often Otule or Gardner or Crowder are left to face a 2 on 1 disadvantage. The end of the Vandy game was a perfect example.
That said, Pittsburgh is an outstanding team who played an outstanding game. We lost by 8 points. Would anyone feel better if the final had been 60-52? The problem I had was our inability to adjust our defense to slow down a hot shooter until half time. It happened against WVU and again at Pitt. Sometimes we've got to assign someone to stay on a hot shooter like Gibbs just to stop the bleeding before it's too late.
Quote from: silverback on January 09, 2011, 04:07:13 AM
Kevin O'Neill's teams were strong defensively, sluggish offensively. Mike Deane's teams were tough, but under-talented once O'Neill's players moved along. Tom Crean's teams were defensively strong and offensively predictable, while focusing on strong rebounding...
And Buzz's teams are aggressive, run and gun units that attack the hoop. But they approach defense and rebounding as an afterthought. It was that way briefly at New Orleans, and it's that way now. We saw it against Washington last year in the tournament and repeatedly this year. Teams are never uncomfortable playing against Buzz's defense as we now do very little to disrupt opponents on the floor.
We might outscore teams to win, but we don't rough them up en route to that win. So long as defense is a secondary concern for Buzz, MU will never be a consistent, major player in the Big East.
Your argument is well taken and fair, but I think it is a bit misjudged. I believe Buzz's defensive issues stem from his defensive philosophy an not the of lack emphasis he places on it. I do not think he forced his entire defensive philosophy on the team the past two years, especially year #1, and that we are now seeing what his ideal D structure truly looks like (and forced to live with its current holes) - which is face-guarding, on the ball defense and denying the passing lanes. It is not a surprise that we give up a lot of easy buckets because of this, however I dont think Buzz is "not teaching D, " its that he is teaching a defensive philosophy that is more high-risk high-reward than we are used to, and that we do not have the experience and talent to implement it most effectively yet.
Coupled with this is the fact that we STILL do not have an inside presence, which especially hurts Buzz's D because it tends to leave open a lot of high % shots underneath because we stretch our D. Buzz is trying to make it work with what we have, which is a one-eyed C and a Freshman bigman learning his cardio limits. That ideal player to help clog the paint and box does not exist on our current roster and these are the growing pains. To imply he doesnt care about defense, or thinks its secondary is to way oversimplify the issue (listen to his interviews-- he cares A LOT about opponents' paint touches and box touches. Maybe Buzz needs a "D Coordinator" or something, but for a guy who seems to emphasize hustle, intensity on every position, being in the right place at the right time, etc., I dont think its an emphasis issue.
If all Buzz cared about was O, wouldnt he play EWill and Jones more? Start Gardner and play him 22+ minutes every game? But he doesnt. Its a philosophical issue, which Im not saying may not be an overall issue with Buzz, but one that is still growing. I have a feeling that when Buzz's guys start to really consistently play D the way he wants, it will come together marvelously and he will look like a genius....until then though, it is his most viable source of criticism.
I'm not basing my defensive worries on the PITT game.
Buzz d's have sucked since he got here, pomroy ranked 50's first couple years and now we are 94th plus his UNO team sucked at D. That's atrocious and more than a one game or even one season trend.
I don't know his philosophy but if it is to high tempo, out-offense every opponent and ok with giving away buckets...good luck with that.
Quote from: Aughnanure on January 09, 2011, 08:09:42 PM
we do not have the experience and talent to implement it most effectively yet.
Its not likely that we'll become much more talented than we are right now. What do we have? Five JUCO all-Americans? Four more HS top 100 players? We should be talented enough to at least be top 100 in both 2 and 3 point FG% defense.
As far as experience is concerned, Cadougan, EWilliams, Buycks, and DJO have been here a season and a half now. Otule, Butler and Fulce have been around for 2 1/2 seasons. If that is not enough experience to effectively learn Buzz's defense, then perhaps the defense is too complex.
Quote from: Marquette84 on January 09, 2011, 10:17:59 PM
As far as experience is concerned, Cadougan, EWilliams, Buycks, and DJO have been here a season and a half now. Otule, Butler and Fulce have been around for 2 1/2 seasons. If that is not enough experience to effectively learn Buzz's defense, then perhaps the defense is too complex.
Or the scheme is just wrong.
As mentioned in the "Alternative Black Jersey" thread, KO is again got a team playing great defensive ball. It isn't *that* hard to teach defensive principles at this level...as long as the scheme is correct. After 2 1/2 years, I think it is safe to say that it isn't.
Quote from: Marquette84 on January 09, 2011, 10:17:59 PM
Its not likely that we'll become much more talented than we are right now. What do we have? Five JUCO all-Americans? Four more HS top 100 players? We should be talented enough to at least be top 100 in both 2 and 3 point FG% defense.
As far as experience is concerned, Cadougan, EWilliams, Buycks, and DJO have been here a season and a half now. Otule, Butler and Fulce have been around for 2 1/2 seasons. If that is not enough experience to effectively learn Buzz's defense, then perhaps the defense is too complex.
84 - What are your thoughts on how things are going over in Bloomington? Creek and Waterford are Top 100 guys in their 2nd years, right? Verdell Jones, Pritichard and Roth are all 3 year program guys. IU is actually ranked worse in total defense than is MU according to Pomroy. Furthermore, they've been on a 6 game losing streak - haven't even been competitive against any of the decent competition they've faced. Best win against Evansville thus far. They hack the hell out of their opponent - send the other team to the line on average 20 more times per game than they are able to get to the line.
Do you think Crean's defense is too complex? Also, do you feel that his offensive sets and philosophy aren't conducive to getting to the free throw line?
Quote from: Ners on January 10, 2011, 08:55:08 AM
84 - What are your thoughts on how things are going over in Bloomington? Creek and Waterford are Top 100 guys in their 2nd years, right? Verdell Jones, Pritichard and Roth are all 3 year program guys. IU is actually ranked worse in total defense than is MU according to Pomroy. Furthermore, they've been on a 6 game losing streak - haven't even been competitive against any of the decent competition they've faced. Best win against Evansville thus far. They hack the hell out of their opponent - send the other team to the line on average 20 more times per game than they are able to get to the line.
Do you think Crean's defense is too complex? Also, do you feel that his offensive sets and philosophy aren't conducive to getting to the free throw line?
Ners, I am a Buzz supporter...but there are more deflections in the above post than a Tom Crean stat sheet. Buzz's defensive scheme needs a redesign.
Quote from: AnotherMU84 on January 09, 2011, 03:39:16 PM
I'm not excusing the defense but is this thread a bunch of whining because we could not shut down the #1 rated offense in the country in their house?
There is a huge gap between (shutting down an offense) and (giving up 60% fg and 89 points). If we had allowed 50% fg and 80 points, I could understand your point.
I agree that there are some serious concerns in regards to Buzz's approach to defense.
1. In an effort to create turnovers, they over play the passing lanes which leaves them exposed to back door cuts and creates a lack of help when the initial defender gets burned.
2. He has the team overcommitting on the weakside help which leaves them vulnerable beyond the arc when the ball is reversed.
3. He stresses playing defense without fouling. This leaves the team unaggressive defensively leading to even more easy baskets for the opposition, especially around the basket.
I am hoping that Buzz adjusts his defensive approach next season. The players aren't the problem.
Billy Gillispie and Buzz were a good combo at A&M.
Buzz has done good things with our O, lack of to's has been great.
And Gillispie can coach D that's for sure, that's what we are lacking that A&M had during their runs..we've got the O but Gillispie must have been a much better coach than Buzz on D. (d rankings at A&M was 240th then Billy gets there, 68th, 8th, 10th in ranking those are the trends you like to see.)
too bad Gillispie has drinking problems, he could be Buzz's Hank Raymonds.
Quote from: Dr. Blackheart on January 10, 2011, 09:04:17 AM
Ners, I am a Buzz supporter...but there are more deflections in the above post than a Tom Crean stat sheet.
OK...now *that* was funny.
Quote from: Marquette84 on January 09, 2011, 10:17:59 PM
Its not likely that we'll become much more talented than we are right now. What do we have? Five JUCO all-Americans? Four more HS top 100 players? We should be talented enough to at least be top 100 in both 2 and 3 point FG% defense.
As far as experience is concerned, Cadougan, EWilliams, Buycks, and DJO have been here a season and a half now. Otule, Butler and Fulce have been around for 2 1/2 seasons. If that is not enough experience to effectively learn Buzz's defense, then perhaps the defense is too complex.
Talent-wise, I would counter that we do not have the inside talent and depth to best implement the defensive approach. Don't get me wrong, I have not been happy watching how our defense gets stretched constantly and to see the huge open opportunities given underneath./ But I do not think Buzz pushed his entire defensive philosophy on this team until now, making the most of the years he had the Big 3 and Lazar before fully integrating it in. That would mean these players havent been learning it for 2 1/2 years, though its not an excuse for the gross amount missed assignments and mistakes.
Quote from: Dr. Blackheart on January 10, 2011, 09:04:17 AM
Ners, I am a Buzz supporter...but there are more deflections in the above post than a Tom Crean stat sheet. Buzz's defensive scheme needs a redesign.
I don't disagree that this team needs work defensively, and that may mean re-designing the concepts of our D. We might be best served to just play a more vanilla, straight up D. Eliminate some of the soft 3/4 court pressures, and even eliminate some of the trapping in the half court. It seems MU applies some good traps in the half court, but the offensive player has often been able to step through the trap and make a good pass to an open teammate.
Perhaps less is more with this team - keep it simple - and see how the results play out...
With all of the basketball experts on this board, I am just wondering which one should be selected to replace Buzz as coach?
hehe - amen 6746jonesr
Quote from: Ners on January 09, 2011, 02:30:26 PM
Here you go again...but I'll indulge you with an answer: The point was that it is far more likely Buzz would get recruited out of MU in the next 2 or 3 years than he will get fired. My response was to Stone Cold who suggested MU would move on in 2 or 3 years if Buzz can't get his teams to play better D. We are in the best basketball playing conference at present.
I don't think Buzz will leave for "greener pastures" which would be a school that has a football team. As you know we at MU are in a precarious position due to not having a football team - with regard to conference realignment and football driving that bus.
I have said previously that the only place I could see Buzz leaving MU for would be Texas or Texas A&M - and what might drive him to do so are fans who have ridiculous expectations/criticisms of how he is handling the program...so keep up your efforts and you might get your wish Chicos!! Then we can see what sorry sack of a coach we get to come to MU...as we all know who we were turned down by for interviews before Buzz got the job..even though we were in the Big East, had the Al McGuire Center, and had some successs already in the Big East at that point..
So do you think that leaving for Texas or Texas A&M would be less pressure, less critical fans? Well, maybe at A&M but not at Texas.
For the record, I have no desire to see Buzz Williams leave MU anytime soon, so your comment about my wishes that he were to leave could not be more inaccurate.
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on January 18, 2011, 12:56:55 AM
So do you think that leaving for Texas or Texas A&M would be less pressure, less critical fans? Well, maybe at A&M but not at Texas.
For the record, I have no desire to see Buzz Williams leave MU anytime soon, so your comment about my wishes that he were to leave could not be more inaccurate.
Yes - there would be less pressure to coach basketball at Texas or Texas A&M - as you and most everyone knows - football is king in Texas. Period. Since all MU has is basketball, basketball is everything. Pretty sure that from your time in the MU athletic department, you know as well as I do..that everyone from O'Neill, to Deane, to even Crean to an extent - felt the ghosts of Al McGuire - and the expectations for MU basketball to be what it was when Al was here.
Maybe pressure isn't the right word, but the expectations many MU fans have of the basketball program are quite lofty - given the reality of the college basketball landscape -and Marquette's place/geography within that landscape. Rick Barnes at Texas hasn't exactly lit it up in the NCAA tourney, but you hear almost no chatter about fans getting restless with his performance. Tom Crean has it a lot more difficult at IU than does Barnes at Texas...because IU is a basketball first school. A double edged sword in some ways - you get all the adulation if you can be successful at an IU or MU in basketball, but you also get a lot of wrath and restlessness if you aren't successful (to the tune of being a Final Four/Elite 8 type of program) by many of th ealumni..
Quote from: Ners on January 18, 2011, 10:07:21 AM
Yes - there would be less pressure to coach basketball at Texas or Texas A&M - as you and most everyone knows - football is king in Texas. Period. Since all MU has is basketball, basketball is everything. Pretty sure that from your time in the MU athletic department, you know as well as I do..that everyone from O'Neill, to Deane, to even Crean to an extent - felt the ghosts of Al McGuire - and the expectations for MU basketball to be what it was when Al was here.
Maybe pressure isn't the right word, but the expectations many MU fans have of the basketball program are quite lofty - given the reality of the college basketball landscape -and Marquette's place/geography within that landscape. Rick Barnes at Texas hasn't exactly lit it up in the NCAA tourney, but you hear almost no chatter about fans getting restless with his performance. Tom Crean has it a lot more difficult at IU than does Barnes at Texas...because IU is a basketball first school. A double edged sword in some ways - you get all the adulation if you can be successful at an IU or MU in basketball, but you also get a lot of wrath and restlessness if you aren't successful (to the tune of being a Final Four/Elite 8 type of program) by many of th ealumni..
Other than from a handful of posters on here and a small group of "doom and gloom" boosters, Buzz really isn't feeling much pressure at all from the MU faithful. He's feeling even less from the administration. The expectations of most MU fans also aren't as lofty as you seem to believe.
Quote from: Marquette84 on January 09, 2011, 10:17:59 PM
Its not likely that we'll become much more talented than we are right now. What do we have? Five JUCO all-Americans? Four more HS top 100 players? We should be talented enough to at least be top 100 in both 2 and 3 point FG% defense.
As far as experience is concerned, Cadougan, EWilliams, Buycks, and DJO have been here a season and a half now. Otule, Butler and Fulce have been around for 2 1/2 seasons. If that is not enough experience to effectively learn Buzz's defense, then perhaps the defense is too complex.
Joanie tells it like it is...as only a Harbaugh can!
Quote from: Marquette84 on January 09, 2011, 10:17:59 PM
Its not likely that we'll become much more talented than we are right now. What do we have? Five JUCO all-Americans? Four more HS top 100 players? We should be talented enough to at least be top 100 in both 2 and 3 point FG% defense.
So you think that every player on the roster has already maxed their potential?
Quote from: warthog-driver on January 18, 2011, 11:02:47 AM
Joanie tells it like it is...as only a Harbaugh can!
More namecalling. Nice. You wouldn't do it in public--why do you think you can get away with it here?
What's the charge for this? Conduct unbecoming?
Disgraceful.
Quote from: MerrittsMustache on January 18, 2011, 11:26:12 AM
So you think that every player on the roster has already maxed their potential?
JUCOs absolutely. Last summer I posted an analysis of very 1st and 2nd team JUCO AA going back several years, and in almost every case, what you see the first year is what you get the 2nd.
What people often confuse is an increase in minutes with an improvement in performance. Jimmy Butler is a good example. His was 3rd on the depth chart behind Matthews and Hayward his first year--with Matthews gone in his 2nd year, people claimed that he improved.
However, when you adjust for minutes played, virtually every tempo neutral or per 40 minutes stat remained essentially the same. His O-Rating is down. His FG% is slightly down. His rebounding/40 minutes is flat. His fouls/40 have improved. Assists per 40 have slightly improved. FT% has improved slightly. Blocks per 40 have declined slightly.
Of course the raw numbers are up, but adjusted for playing time, he's essentially the same player he was his first year. Some refinement, but not a quantum leap. Ditto with DJO. Ditto with Fulce. Buycks has shown across the board improvement, but its hard to know if that's because he's better or because he shifted from a backup 2 to the starting 1.
With underclassmen its a bit more complex. Let's set aside bigs for a moment. For guards and SF/WFs, you pretty much know out of the gate that a kid will contribute or not at the college level. Diener, Novak, the Amigos, Wardle, Hayward, Key, etc--these types of players showed you what they had from day one. Menard, Howard, Hester, Diggs--you knew from day one that they were not your future starters for a league contender.
Sometimes your great players started on day 1 (the Amigos)--sometimes they understudied (e.g. Diener behind Henry). But you pretty much knew during their first year that they were a special player--we weren't halfway through their sophomore seasons wondering why they can't get off the bench in a 20+ point blowout.
Bigs are the exception. Gray at Pitt, McCaskill, Otule, even Crawford. They sometimes can take a couple of years. On the other hand, Merritt, Fazekas since I brought him up a couple of days ago, Harangody--sometimes they give you something that approaches their max on Day 1.
Quote from: Marquette84 on January 18, 2011, 12:12:22 PM
More namecalling. Nice. You wouldn't do it in public--why do you think you can get away with it here?
Name calling? Hardly. And, yes, I would say it to your face. Every single word.
Quote from: MerrittsMustache on January 18, 2011, 10:18:19 AM
Other than from a handful of posters on here and a small group of "doom and gloom" boosters, Buzz really isn't feeling much pressure at all from the MU faithful. He's feeling even less from the administration. The expectations of most MU fans also aren't as lofty as you seem to believe.
Absolutely agree. The pressure at MU is a molecule compared to having the eyes of Texas on you. Yes, Texas is a football state, no one denies that. It's still a huge state, however, with huge alumni base who wants to win at all sports. You think there are some doom and gloom people here, go check out the UT boards.