I did not want to post frustrated, so I slept on it. Didn't read other threads. Thoughts after a good night sleep:
Otule's best game. Still has some hand issues, but I never saw 12 points from him coming. Bodes well. Like against Duke, we played about 30 good minutes. Chronic slow starts. Too many easy shots for Vandy early. Also, when JB is sitting, the offense stagnates. Can't fault the effort. Last basket for Vandy, it looked like Jae and Buycks switched, leaving Crowder on the guard and Buycks on the big down low. DB left his to come double, the guard stepped through and hit the guy Buycks had left. Chris had his guy sealed and then was a half step late recovering to the open player. Still contested, but a second late. DG is not ready defensively.
For about 28 minutes last night, MU played about as well as they could. Good defense, solid rebounding, running and getting to the rim, good shot selection, sharing the ball, excellent defensive rotations. Some really nice runs on the road against a ranked team. For about 12 minutes, we stunk. Against the level of competition we play, that is fatal. Must put 40 minutes together.
Quote from: tower912 on December 30, 2010, 06:31:05 AM
I did not want to post frustrated, so I slept on it. Didn't read other threads. Also, when JB is sitting, the offense stagnates. DG is not ready defensively.
JB played terrible d on taylor last night. he had him all of the first half and was torched for 14.
And Otule is ready defensively?
Gardner 3 minutes
Cadougan 10 minutes
Buycks 34 minutes.
Oh well
Quote from: willie warrior on December 30, 2010, 07:21:03 AM
JB played terrible d on taylor last night. he had him all of the first half and was torched for 14.
And Otule is ready defensively?
Gardner 3 minutes
Cadougan 10 minutes
Buycks 34 minutes.
Oh well
What's the question with Gardner? He was awful when he came in on D. Not saying maybe he shouldn't have gotten a chance in the second half but he was terrible. 3 straight O boards given up.
Quote from: willie warrior on December 30, 2010, 07:21:03 AM
Cadougan 10 minutes
Buycks 34 minutes.
Buycks is just better. C'mon now, what does Junior give you? No assists, one turnover, 0-1 shooting. I realize that Buycks turns the ball over and isn't the perfect point guard, but IMO that's better than Junior right now.
OK--Buycks is better--we will see how that pans out this year. He is a TO machine ala McNeal, and I am not seeing improvement there.
Quote from: willie warrior on December 30, 2010, 07:21:03 AM
JB played terrible d on taylor last night. he had him all of the first half and was torched for 14.
And Otule is ready defensively?
Gardner 3 minutes
Cadougan 10 minutes
Buycks 34 minutes.
Oh well
Buycks got 34 minutes because, despite the turnovers, he was our best player for many stretches of the game.
I'd say we are an inexperienced team with many new pieces that are taking time to meld. We are probably a year away. Sure do applaud the effort.
Quote from: ATWizJr on December 30, 2010, 07:46:01 AM
I'd say we are an inexperienced team with many new pieces that are taking time to meld. We are probably a year away. Sure do applaud the effort.
-1
Buycks Sr
Butler Sr.
Arguably our two best players, at this moment, and will be gone next year. Can't say we are a year away, since they obviously will be gone. That's what happens when you take more than 1 JUCO each class, it's a win now, or else you are constantly chasing.
That being said, I am not too upset. Our first tough road game, and had a chance to pull it out. These guys competed. I still think we are a tournament team, and we will be playing our best ball at the end of the year.
Unless you move Blue to point Buycks is our best point guard. Point guard is our weakest position, even weaker than center.
I mentioned either on this board or scout board that Otule's bad hands have to do with being virtually blind in one eye. Posters replied to me that his vision was not the problem and I did not know what I was talking about. The annoucers in last nights game talked about Otule having sight in only one eye, because of something he was born with. Depth perception comes from being able to see out of two eyes. You need depth perception to judge where the ball is.
... it still hurts.
Quote from: jaybilaswho? on December 30, 2010, 08:44:08 AM
... it still hurts.
That's what she said.
Anyways...the team has a lot of basketball talent, but they are missing two essential factors.
1.) Basketball IQ - No one on this team strikes me as a high IQ guy, usually a good PG can cover this for the team, but Lazar filled this role last year. When a play shuts down, the whole team shuts down without anyone there to think.
2.) Leadership - No one is out there rallying the troops. There's no emotional leader, no one is getting everyone fired up. I did see Jimmy make a couple comments and Chris was leading the team in emotion last night. DJO needs to start firing the team, we're going to need it next season.
Buycks was the reason we were in the game. i can live with 2.3 TOs per game when assists and key shots are in the mix
Help defense and rebounding still suck. Big problems.
I like Buycks as a shooter
Otule was a man child...impressive to see his development.
Gardner should never see the floor until he learns how to move his feet and actually defend and box a man out.
Haven't figured out if he's just lazy on D or has no athletic ability.
It will be interesting to see how the minutes shake up as the season goes on. If we continue to lose early on in the Big East schedule I see Buzz playing some of the younger guys more. Being realistic we are a mediocre team. Maybe I'm wrong but unless something clicks suddenly our mental lapses will continue to cost us games. I hope I am wrong, and the sky isn't falling because were a young team but I want to see growth throughout the year. I would like to see Vander play point, and Cadougan to me is a slower Cubillan in the way he defends an he can't shoot. If your point guard doesn't get any respect when he is running the offense he won't be able to create for the rest of the team.
Those are my thoughts after sleeping on it just like tower.
Quote from: ATWizJr on December 30, 2010, 07:46:01 AM
I'd say we are an inexperienced team with many new pieces that are taking time to meld. We are probably a year away. Sure do applaud the effort.
I applaud the effort also, except for some shady d by Butler on Taylor first half. Blue did no better second half--they had to finally end up with DJO on him.
The excuse of being an inexperienced team is really getting old. Butler and Buycks are seniors, DJO a Junior, Otule often injured, is in the system for his third year. We have already played almost one- half season this year.
Let's get off the inexperienced excuse wagon. These are Buzz's players--time to hold him accountable for the results. Kind of like blaming Bush for Obamas failures and inexperience.
Quote from: Stone Cold on December 30, 2010, 09:23:18 AM
Help defense and rebounding still suck. Big problems.
I like Buycks as a shooter
Otule was a man child...impressive to see his development.
Gardner should never see the floor until he learns how to move his feet and actually defend and box a man out.
Haven't figured out if he's just lazy on D or has no athletic ability.
gardner can move his feet better now than Otule can. He is not as tall. I do not believe his d is any worse than Otule's--other than Otule is a better shot blocker. Otule gives up plenty of rebounds to the offense--last night, Duke, Gonzaga, etc.
Otule actually jumps for the ball and can block/alter shots.
Quote from: willie warrior on December 30, 2010, 09:28:57 AM
Let's get off the inexperienced excuse wagon. These are Buzz's players--time to hold him accountable for the results. Kind of like blaming Bush for Obamas failures and inexperience.
Does Buzz control the experience of the players? Not really...
Buycks - Second year
Vander - First year
DJO - Second year
Jae - First year
O'Tule - Second year
Gardner - First year
Caddy - First year
Williams - Second year
Jones - First year
Butler - Third year
Fulce - Third year
He can control the amount of JUCO players though. Look on the bright side, almost 70% of minutes played thus far will return next season. I figured we would be down big this year, but watch out for next year.
Need length inside, athletic bigs hell I'll take a Marcus Jackson.
Then we can stop this hyper extension of our d which opens up huge holes and screws up help defense when the pressure is beat.
Really disappointed Buzz hasn't gotten one by year 3, thought he'd get it done there.
Quote from: marqptm on December 30, 2010, 09:38:50 AM
Does Buzz control the experience of the players? Not really...
Buycks - Second year
Vander - First year
DJO - Second year
Jae - First year
O'Tule - Second year
Gardner - First year
Caddy - First year
Williams - Second year
Jones - First year
Butler - Third year
Fulce - Third year
Great post. Everyone looks at the class in the roster sheet but that does not tell you Division I experience. This is an inexperienced team by all measures. There was turnover when Buzz came on and that is to be expected with a coaching change. That turnover has caused us experience at this point. I can already see the improvement on this team which is encouraging. I just hope the improvement happens in time for a NCAA berth.
I'd still rather take my chances with Buycks at the the point than Junior, who brings zero to the game. Erik seems to have regressed back into his role of a few games ago. Where was Jimmy's leadership last nite?
Quote from: marqptm on December 30, 2010, 09:10:20 AM
2.) Leadership - No one is out there rallying the troops. There's no emotional leader, no one is getting everyone fired up. I did see Jimmy make a couple comments and Chris was leading the team in emotion last night. DJO needs to start firing the team, we're going to need it next season.
I think Crowder might be that guy.
Quote from: MarquetteDano on December 30, 2010, 09:46:46 AM
Great post. Everyone looks at the class in the roster sheet but that does not tell you Division I experience. This is an inexperienced team by all measures. There was turnover when Buzz came on and that is to be expected with a coaching change. That turnover has caused us experience at this point. I can already see the improvement on this team which is encouraging. I just hope the improvement happens in time for a NCAA berth.
Exactly. Buzz was given a upperclassmen heavy team when Crean left. However, his freshmen & sophmore classes were depleted. Buzz reacted by pulling in more JUCO players, which is fine. Marquette is feeling that coaching turnover now instead of the immediate impact it could have had. We'll still be recovering next year, but with some incredible talent:
DJO - Third year
Vander - Second year
Jae - Second year
O'Tule - Third year
Gardner - Second year
Caddy - Second year
Williams - Third year
Jones - Second year
Wilson - Second year (NCAA experience)
Anderson - First year
Derrick Wilson - First year
Quote from: BrewCity on December 30, 2010, 09:50:58 AM
I think Crowder might be that guy.
I thought Crowder would be that guy, maybe my expectations of him were too high, but he's not a team leader right now.
Vander Blue will be the team leader by Feb.
Quote from: willie warrior on December 30, 2010, 07:33:53 AM
OK--Buycks is better--we will see how that pans out this year. He is a TO machine ala McNeal, and I am not seeing improvement there.
junior can't score. DB is the better option.
Live from Nville...a really fun town with plenty of friendlees. UNC and UT fans also in town for their bowl game. Know MU and hoops...even some made it to the game last night. Checked out Tootsies and a few other honky tonks, Jacks' for BBQ, Grand Ole Opry.
- Memorial Gym an interesting place to play. Set up is more like a theater with the floor elevated. Sold out but MU travelled well. Plenty of chants for the Warriors
- The boys played hard. Vandy just may win the SEC. They are the complete deal and Stallings is just a great coach
- Vandy has not lost here in two years out of conference
- Every one in the gym thought Vandy fouled DJO except Jim Burr--who we are now 1-7 with over the past two seasons (btw, I hate Burr for the four walks he missed and the style of game he calls which does not favor MU). That said, he was right on the play. And, the refs let both teams play tight and physical on the ball all game. DJO did have the seam, though.
- The intentional fouls or lack of them were the brutal ones. So much for the NCAA cleaning up the interpretation of that rule. Two times MU had a clean breakaway and Vandy grabbed our jerseys instead of going for the ball.
- Key for me is when Ezeli was pulled with foul trouble in the 2nd and Tchiengang came in and just killed us. Buzz went small and they went zone. We got flatfooted and no one looked like they wanted to shoot. Jimmy and Jae need to step up their perimeter play...and Dwight needs to learn to step back for the trey rather than step up for the pull-up two.
- Stallings said post-game that MU is one of the best in the country getting to the line--quoting Buzz's stat. He thought that was key in limiting us...even quoting that Vandy did the best job all year vs. MU last night. Props to MU and Buzz too. Class Act.
- Stallings said their game winning play was one they practiced all week...they had five options as the play developed and they broke down our defense as they primarily planned to in the huddle based on how we usually switch.
- Vander stepped up and played some great D on Taylor. We really limited Jenkins with strong D. We had to pressure their backcourt with our quickness if we wanted to win, but they were ready.
- Last time out by Buzz I was fine with to adjust after he had a look at their defense. I am not a fan of getting the ball to half-court for another time out with only two seconds left to in-bound and shoot....would prefer the scramble with our line-up and only 4 seconds--otherwise we waste three of those seconds in-bounding the ball twice.
- People here knew MU hoops, really impressed with our team. We are not that far off. Need Otule and Gardner to step up (like Chris did last night) since we don't have the threes shooters.
- Jimmy is a stud and needs to take over on offense vs. DJO. JFB scored with 2-3 guys on his arm where DJO is out of control. Dwight was POG and at least two of his TO's were perfect passes to guys (Gardner) who were not expecting the rock.
Quote from: Stone Cold on December 30, 2010, 09:23:18 AM
Help defense and rebounding still suck. Big problems.
I like Buycks as a shooter
Otule was a man child...impressive to see his development.
Gardner should never see the floor until he learns how to move his feet and actually defend and box a man out.
Haven't figured out if he's just lazy on D or has no athletic ability.
Agree with Gardner assessment. He does not even leave his feet.
I guess i saw it differently--Taylor burned Blue at least twice early and then DJO was guarding him.
I do agree that DJO was fouled--it happened quickly though. Good to hear that many at the game thought so also. Several of our people on this board did not see it that way.
Quote from: willie warrior on December 30, 2010, 10:08:54 AM
I guess i saw it differently--Taylor burned Blue at least twice early and then DJO was guarding him.
Taylor had 14 of Vandy's first 28. While Vander may have lost him a couple of times, his quickness really bothered Taylor when VB switched on him--as JB could not stop him. Taylor has an NBA body and talent and is a couple of inches taller than Jimmy--so Blue was giving up a lot to him. I thought VB limited Taylor on ball touches--which may be harder to see on TV. This got us back into the game in the 1st.
Quote from: ZiggysF*ckinFryBoy on December 30, 2010, 10:00:50 AM
I thought Crowder would be that guy, maybe my expectations of him were too high, but he's not a team leader right now.
Vander Blue will be the team leader by Feb.
I actually thought Jae did a nice job of leading by example last night, particularly in the first half. In the early part of the game he was the only one who came to play and he set the tone for the rest of the team.
Quote from: indeelaw90 on December 30, 2010, 08:31:25 AM
-1
Buycks Sr
Butler Sr.
Arguably our two best players, at this moment, and will be gone next year. Can't say we are a year away, since they obviously will be gone. That's what happens when you take more than 1 JUCO each class, it's a win now, or else you are constantly chasing.
That being said, I am not too upset. Our first tough road game, and had a chance to pull it out. These guys competed. I still think we are a tournament team, and we will be playing our best ball at the end of the year.
Guys who are being asked to play a major role lack experience:
Otule
Cadougan
Blue
Crowder
Gardner
also - love Butler, BUT, he is a great complementary player, NOT a guy who can carry a team. Not a knock, just a fact. Also, Buycks is relatively new to the PG position which means we are inexperienced at virtually 4 of 5 positions.
Quote from: willie warrior on December 30, 2010, 09:31:51 AM
gardner can move his feet better now than Otule can. He is not as tall. I do not believe his d is any worse than Otule's--other than Otule is a better shot blocker. Otule gives up plenty of rebounds to the offense--last night, Duke, Gonzaga, etc.
Do you actually watch any of our games? Or do you just have a man-crush on the Ox?
He is nowhere near the defender that Otule is. Not even remotely close.
Yeah, I have watched the gamesd and been to a few. You are wrong.
And only playing 3 minutes is not going to improve him.
Otule is a better shot blocker and can jump better.
It is amazing how people are now pissing on Gardner, pissing on Cadougan and pissing on Smith.
Quote from: willie warrior on December 30, 2010, 01:43:12 PM
It is amazing how people are now pissing on Gardner, pissing on Cadougan and pissing on Smith.
I agree. It's also amazing how regularly you piss on the coaches and the players that you don't like.
Quote from: willie warrior on December 30, 2010, 01:43:12 PM
Yeah, I have watched the gamesd and been to a few. You are wrong.
And only playing 3 minutes is not going to improve him.
Otule is a better shot blocker and can jump better.
It is amazing how people are now pissing on Gardner, pissing on Cadougan and pissing on Smith.
I dont feel like I / we / anyone was pissing on Gardner but just pointing out his deficiencies. I look at it as something the player and coaches need to address to get them where they / we want them to be.
I pointed out ewill's issues with D and rebounding as well.
Why cant we be critical of them?
Quote from: willie warrior on December 30, 2010, 01:43:12 PM
Yeah, I have watched the gamesd and been to a few. You are wrong.
And only playing 3 minutes is not going to improve him.
Otule is a better shot blocker and can jump better.
It is amazing how people are now pissing on Gardner, pissing on Cadougan and pissing on Smith.
Let's try this.
In what way(s) is DG better than Otule on defense? Come up with as many as you can. This should be interesting.
BTW, I am not in any way "pissing on" (lovely) any of the above players. At times I feel that I am one of the more vigorous defenders of the guys on our team on this board. I think my posts back that up -- two today on Otule and Cadougan.
And you are one to talk...you and your constant "man-crush" posts on Buycks...who is clearly one of the best players on our team and one of the few who seems willing to at least try to throw the team on his back and carry them.
I'll reply to the DG questions, I wrote almost the same thing in a different thread.
DG is a good offensive player. Defensively he's a massive liability. I specifically watched him last night on the defensive end and it's like he's not even trying or moving. He gets schooled on offensive rebounds like a 4th grader (no jumping at all) and then when he gets hit with a foul he drops his shoulders and has the body language of a little kid. It looked like Jae yelled at him when he did that last night.
And don't tell me about conditioning and he's still too heavy and blah blah. He's playing about 3 minutes of defense, he's really going to have to work harder and try a LOT harder or he's not going to see the court and that's our loss because there's a lot of good things about DG and loads of potential.
I'm not trying to hammer a 19 year old kid; I really like him and his potential but wow his laziness on the defensive end is concerning.
Quote from: warriors1991 on December 30, 2010, 02:35:09 PM
I'll reply to the DG questions, I wrote almost the same thing in a different thread.
DG is a good offensive player. Defensively he's a massive liability. I specifically watched him last night on the defensive end and it's like he's not even trying or moving. He gets schooled on offensive rebounds like a 4th grader (no jumping at all) and then when he gets hit with a foul he drops his shoulders and has the body language of a little kid. It looked like Jae yelled at him when he did that last night.
And don't tell me about conditioning and he's still too heavy and blah blah. He's playing about 3 minutes of defense, he's really going to have to work harder and try a LOT harder or he's not going to see the court and that's our loss because there's a lot of good things about DG and loads of potential.
I'm not trying to hammer a 19 year old kid; I really like him and his potential but wow his laziness on the defensive end is concerning.
These are good observations. And I hope he figures out how hard he needs to go sooner rather than later. We're a much better team with him getting minutes if he can hold his own on the defensive end.
Loved Marquette's effort last night. Thought we should have won. Thought DJO was fouled on the last play. Attribute it to the home field advantage. Was impressed with Otule. He played hard and tough. Otule definitely makes the Warriors a tough team to beat. Crowder definitely leads by example. Like to see him get more vocal. Jimmy never quits. Plays hard. Buycks played really well at point guard. Junior plays weak. It seems like he doesn't have any game. Vander played well. Gardner played slow. Someone's got to stick a match up his butt to get him to play harder. Would like to see more of Erick Williams and jamail Jones to spell the starters. Both are long and can score. Need the players to push each other to play harder. If Marquette plays hard, they can win.
Dr. Blackheart...nice re cap with unemotional, intelligent analysis that I can trust.
Thanks man.