Why in the world are Reggie Smith and Otule starting?? Otule is close to worthless against non cupcakes who can actually play and we have an experienced senior guard coming off the bench instead of starting. I would think this would be a very logical starting lineup:
Buycks, Blue, DJO, Butler, Gardner
I would think this could be a very productive lineup with Smith, Crowder, and Junior coming off the bench when needed.
I also really don't like how Buzz can't stick with a consistent lineup for over 3 minutes. Today, Vander gets a steal and a dunk in the first half and within 30 seconds to a minute, he's taken out of the game. I've noticed Buzz doing this all season to players who have just made a play for us and it kind of pisses me off to be honest.
The team's identity issue is a continuous topic of discussion, but within that Erik Williams has a similar problem. He's deep in the dog house (played one minute today and got taken out when he failed to rotate out and cover Leuer, who had a wide open 3). He's not a 3 or a 4 and his D blows. I don't see where he fits -- either presently or in the future.
Exactly why I didn't even include him in the discussion.... Marquette basketball is hard nosed, dive on the floor, etc etc basketball.... he doesn't play like that and that's one of those things that doesn't really change in a player... you can improve a jump shot but you can't change the heart/drive/toughness of a player.
I think we do need a more consistent starting five, but if you're going to base it on play this year, I don't see how anyone can justify DJO. Personally, I do think he's our most talented player, and has the most upside, but he's simply not getting it done. Also, we know Gardner's limitations when it comes to minutes. He only played 18 minutes today because of Bucky's slow-down style. There's a reason he hasn't played more than 15 in any other game.
I know he wasn't at his best today, but I think Crowder deserves to start. He's at least willing to rebound and has better instincts than our big men. His defense is lacking, but against quality opponents, I'm not sure it's any worse than Otule's. Here's my starting five based on this year:
PG - Junior Cadougan: Our best ball-handler. I know he isn't going to give us more than 20-25 minutes, but I can live with that. The only guy we have who actually runs the offense
SG - Dwight Buycks: He gets a lot of flack on this board, I don't understand why. He's averaging 10 points, 4 boards, and 4 assists a game and shoots 36% from 3 while not being afraid to put it up. He has a lot of energy and is one of our hardest workers. Yes, he's a street baller, but he's one of the few consistently decent players this year.
SG - Vander Blue: Our best defender, also a good driver. He's been starting since day one because he's earned it, and continues to do so every game.
SF - Jimmy Butler: Maybe not the leader we hoped he'd be, but our best scoring option, a decent defender, and a decent rebounder. Quite simply, we need him on the floor.
PF - Jae Crowder: No, he's not the big man we'd like, but he's got a bit of Lazar in him. A decent rebounder, three-point shooter, and offensive threat. He's not Lazar, don't get me wrong, but he tries to play a similar game, and does a better job than anyone else on this team at it.
Key Bench: Otule for defense, Gardner for offense, DJO as an energy/offense guy, Smith as a change-of-pace point guard.
My guess is Buzz starts Otule solely for the opening tip
Missing teal there haha
Our bench outscored our starters yesterday...time for a switch.
No way you sit DJO. He is a starter. Give him time to get his stroke back, and quit playing head games. If he does not have his stroke back after several games, then you can start Bikes over DJO, but that is a joke.
Also, start Crowder over Blue--more scoring and rebounding there.
Quote from: willie warrior on December 12, 2010, 02:17:17 PMNo way you sit DJO. He is a starter. Give him time to get his stroke back, and quit playing head games. If he does not have his stroke back after several games, then you can start Bikes over DJO, but that is a joke.
Also, start Crowder over Blue--more scoring and rebounding there.
If it were game 3 or 4, I'd agree with you. But we're 10 games in and DJO has had his stroke once. 38% from the field, 26.7% from long-range, and most of this is at home where he should be more comfortable. Meanwhile Buycks is shooting 50% from the field and 38% from deep. Clearly just running DJO out there and hoping he'll turn it on isn't working.
As far as Crowder over Blue...well, why not both? Blue's defense should be on the floor as much as possible. He's our best stopper. And I agree with Crowder's scoring and rebounding. So put them both in.
DJO had his stroke for one half and then stunk the joint up the next 20 minutes.
Quote from: brewcity77 on December 12, 2010, 02:32:19 PM
If it were game 3 or 4, I'd agree with you. But we're 10 games in and DJO has had his stroke once. 38% from the field, 26.7% from long-range, and most of this is at home where he should be more comfortable. Meanwhile Buycks is shooting 50% from the field and 38% from deep. Clearly just running DJO out there and hoping he'll turn it on isn't working.
As far as Crowder over Blue...well, why not both? Blue's defense should be on the floor as much as possible. He's our best stopper. And I agree with Crowder's scoring and rebounding. So put them both in.
If you start Crowder, Blue, DJO, Cadougan and Butler--who do you play in the post? Crowder is not a post. You need Gardner in there. Blue has been mostly playing the three from what I have seen. While Blue may be better d than Crowder, he is not as good a scorer or rebounder as Crowder. Buzz has been playing Crowder out of position in the post and that is why he has not looked good defensively, because the guy he covers is 2 to 4 inches taller.
My personal opinion is
Junior
Buycks
Blue
Jimmy
Davante
Given how often and how quickly Buzz substitutes players in and out of the game, does it really matter much who is in the game for the opening tip?
I like Buzz a lot, but one real issue i have with him this year is the huge amount of substitutions he seems to have in nearly every game. On practically every whistle, it at least seems like to me that 1-3 guys are coming in and out of the game, even if they've only been on the court for a possession or two.
I just wonder if this frustrates the players, makes them tentative that any mistake will get them removed, and/or it's preventing groups of players from getting in a rhythm?
Quote from: jeffreyweee on December 12, 2010, 03:21:46 PM
My personal opinion is
Junior
Buycks
Blue
Jimmy
Davante
^ this lineup should seee more minutes together.
Quote from: El Duderino on December 13, 2010, 03:50:14 AM
^ any lineup for that matter.
Given how often and how quickly Buzz substitutes players in and out of the game, does it really matter much who is in the game for the opening tip?
I like Buzz a lot, but one real issue i have with him this year is the huge amount of substitutions he seems to have in nearly every game. On practically every whistle, it at least seems like to me that 1-3 guys are coming in and out of the game, even if they've only been on the court for a possession or two.
I just wonder if this frustrates the players, makes them tentative that any mistake will get them removed, and/or it's preventing groups of players from getting in a rhythm?
^Any lineup for that matter
Quote from: El Duderino on December 13, 2010, 03:50:14 AM
I just wonder if this frustrates the players, makes them tentative that any mistake will get them removed, and/or it's preventing groups of players from getting in a rhythm?
My opinion is yes, it frustrates, the players, yes it makes them tentative/scared to make a mistake and yes, it prevents them from getting into any kind of rhythym or flow and actually playing basketball.
Other than that, I think it's working perfectly.
Quote from: ATL MU Warrior on December 13, 2010, 07:37:48 AM
My opinion is yes, it frustrates, the players, yes it makes them tentative/scared to make a mistake and yes, it prevents them from getting into any kind of rhythym or flow and actually playing basketball.
Other than that, I think it's working perfectly.
+1
Compared to Wisconsin he doesn't sub much at all, I believe you are trying to find something where there is nothing. We have more players who should be able to handle themselves out there than in past years. Wisconsin had 14 more subs than MU. I believe the days of 4 guys playing 32+ minutes are over and we should be thankful for that.
Look at the statsheet... http://statsheet.com/mcb/games/2010/12/11/wisconsin-69-marquette-64/plus_minus
For MU
1st half - 22 stints
2nd half - 19 stints
Wis
1st half - 23 stints
2nd half - 32 stints
Why do people feel that Buzz is subbing all the time? We had only 7 guys with double digit minutes. Wisconsin played more players than we did.
Quote from: willie warrior on December 12, 2010, 03:12:24 PMIf you start Crowder, Blue, DJO, Cadougan and Butler--who do you play in the post? Crowder is not a post. You need Gardner in there. Blue has been mostly playing the three from what I have seen. While Blue may be better d than Crowder, he is not as good a scorer or rebounder as Crowder. Buzz has been playing Crowder out of position in the post and that is why he has not looked good defensively, because the guy he covers is 2 to 4 inches taller.
No, he's not. But Gardner can't put in enough minutes. The guy's only good for 8-12 minutes in most games. He only played 18 against Bucky because the pace of the game suited his conditioning level. And I just can't see starting Gardner, much as I wish we could, because he's been at his best in the second half once the opponent's bigs are tiring and have picked up fouls.
Quote from: brewcity77 on December 13, 2010, 08:58:21 AM
No, he's not. But Gardner can't put in enough minutes. The guy's only good for 8-12 minutes in most games. He only played 18 against Bucky because the pace of the game suited his conditioning level. And I just can't see starting Gardner, much as I wish we could, because he's been at his best in the second half once the opponent's bigs are tiring and have picked up fouls.
Sorry, but I see no reason why gardner cannot go 20 minutes or more per game, at this time of the season. He should be able to manage 8 to 12 minutes each half, and the rest of the post minutes go to Otule. If the pace becomes too quick for Gardner, it is likely too quick for Otule also. If that happens then Buzz will have to go small.
Quote from: The Sultan of South Wayne on December 13, 2010, 08:54:39 AM
Why do people feel that Buzz is subbing all the time? We had only 7 guys with double digit minutes. Wisconsin played more players than we did.
It's called groupthink. You see it with Buycks evaluation as well. If Buycks makes a mistake in a game he is playing "streetball". If DJO makes the same mistake then get just needs "to get hot".
I agree regarding the lack of concern over subbing. We have heard from Buzz on mutliple occassions that Otule, Cadougan, and Gardner cannot play a lot of minutes right now. If you run the numbers, that means that either Smith, Williams, or Fulce (if heathly) will HAVE to get minutes unless you want five players (DJO, Buycks, Crowder, JFB, Blue) averaging 30 minutes a game.
Last year we had five guys average 30 minutes a game and we ran of out gas in many games. We just came against Wisconsin who play a slow tempo. When we play faster tempo teams those breaks for the main minute guys will be even more important.
If Fulce was healthy, I don't see any problem with this minute breakdown:
Butler: 32
DJO: 30
Buycks: 25
Blue: 25
Crowder: 23
Cadogan: 20
Gardner: 15
Otule: 15
Fulce: 15
Quote from: willie warrior on December 13, 2010, 09:28:53 AMSorry, but I see no reason why gardner cannot go 20 minutes or more per game, at this time of the season. He should be able to manage 8 to 12 minutes each half, and the rest of the post minutes go to Otule. If the pace becomes too quick for Gardner, it is likely too quick for Otule also. If that happens then Buzz will have to go small.
Maybe he's just not in good enough shape. Maybe he just doesn't have the footspeed for long periods. Maybe he's not athletic enough. Maybe they fear him developing shin splints. There's any number of reasons, but I have to think that if he could regularly contribute 20+ minutes a game, he would be. In addition, he just took time off to rest after his injury, which would likely only hinder what improved conditioning he had built up.
Personally, I think that he should be around a 15 minute guy by now, if he started as a 10-minute guy. In another 4-6 weeks, I think we could expect those 20 minute performances. But take it from someone who knows, conditioning doesn't come overnight, and if you rush it, you'll have guys going down with injury left and right. I'd rather they were careful with him and didn't create long-term injuries than pushing him simply because the fans can't see the reason not to.
Quote from: The Sultan of South Wayne on December 13, 2010, 08:54:39 AM
Why do people feel that Buzz is subbing all the time? We had only 7 guys with double digit minutes. Wisconsin played more players than we did.
We may only have 7 guys with double digit minutes, but how are those minutes being accumulated? Are they in significant blocks of time where the guys can get into the flow of the game, or are they in-and-out bursts? I'm not sure...it feels to me that it's the latter for the majority of our guys but I may be way off base.
Quote from: dw3dw3dw3 on December 13, 2010, 08:03:02 AM
Compared to Wisconsin he doesn't sub much at all, I believe you are trying to find something where there is nothing. We have more players who should be able to handle themselves out there than in past years. Wisconsin had 14 more subs than MU. I believe the days of 4 guys playing 32+ minutes are over and we should be thankful for that.
Look at the statsheet... http://statsheet.com/mcb/games/2010/12/11/wisconsin-69-marquette-64/plus_minus
For MU
1st half - 22 stints
2nd half - 19 stints
Wis
1st half - 23 stints
2nd half - 32 stints
Thanks for the link, never heard of that site before and i'll have to bookmark it.
I stand corrected on what i thought i saw as over substitution. No question that frustration can lead to skewed perspectives.
It's time for Buzz to lock in on a stable lineup with starters and a depth chart. "training camp" is just about over. My starting line up is: Blue, DJO, Butler, Crowder and Gardner. And the backups for each (in order) are: Buycks, Cadugan, Jones, Williams and Otule. Sadly, this considers that Fulce is out for the year. Smith needs more grooming as a point guard. Marquette needs to bounce back from this loss. And start to play more cohesively as a unit.
Quote from: ATL MU Warrior on December 13, 2010, 10:21:48 AM
We may only have 7 guys with double digit minutes, but how are those minutes being accumulated? Are they in significant blocks of time where the guys can get into the flow of the game, or are they in-and-out bursts? I'm not sure...it feels to me that it's the latter for the majority of our guys but I may be way off base.
The lowest number of the double digit minutes was Gardner with 18:00. If memory recalls, he maybe was in three or four times...that was plenty.