I'm sure there is a range of opinions on the rose bowl, but I believe the big 10 is really on the line if osu and wisconsin don't win.
Just 4 years ago the big 10 almost had the world convinced that ohio state and michigan were the best 2 teams in the country until urban meyer basically said "the emporer has no clothes, we'd kill either of those teams," and the big 10s only heisman trophy winner of the decade was humiliated by florida.
Now jim delany is reduced to claiming the high road by lashing outat cam newton to distract sports fans from the fact that the big 10s only title of the decade was on a phantom interference call in 2002 for a team led by the big 10s moral leader maurice clarett.
While the sec is trying for its 5th straight title, the big 10 appears to be coming back in football after sinking to actually being the 7th best football conference behind the rest of the bcs and the mountain west at the lowpoint.
However if ohio state doesn't get their first victory EVER against an SEC team vs. Arkansas, and wisconsin doesn't win the traditional big 10 bowl vs future big east team tcu the conference perch as the undisputed king will be further questioned.
You can try to keep other conferences out ofa title game (mich v osu proposed game, osu president saying tcu and boise state paly "little sisters of the poor") argue that opposing players shouldn't be allowed to play (cam newton, who unlike clarett never committed armed robbery), but at some point the conference is going to have to actually beat opponents) or the huge money advantage the big 10 has enjoyed over the big east and other bcs conferences is going to dwindle.
You can't completely judge a conference on its bowl results, but keep in mind the Big Ten had a strong showing in last year's bowls - Ohio State beating Oregon in the Rose, Iowa beating Georgia Tech in the Orange, Penn State beating LSU in the Capital One and Wisconsin beating Miami in the Champs Sports. A huge improvement after going 1-6 the prior bowl season. It's not nearly as good as the SEC, but the decline of Big Ten football is a little exagerrated in my opinion. The bigger drop off is in the ACC.
Quote from: marquette99 on December 07, 2010, 04:05:11 PM
I'm sure there is a range of opinions on the rose bowl, but I believe the big 10 is really on the line if osu and wisconsin don't win.
Just 4 years ago the big 10 almost had the world convinced that ohio state and michigan were the best 2 teams in the country until urban meyer basically said "the emporer has no clothes, we'd kill either of those teams," and the big 10s only heisman trophy winner of the decade was humiliated by florida.
Now jim delany is reduced to claiming the high road by lashing outat cam newton to distract sports fans from the fact that the big 10s only title of the decade was on a phantom interference call in 2002 for a team led by the big 10s moral leader maurice clarett.
While the sec is trying for its 5th straight title, the big 10 appears to be coming back in football after sinking to actually being the 7th best football conference behind the rest of the bcs and the mountain west at the lowpoint.
However if ohio state doesn't get their first victory EVER against an SEC team vs. Arkansas, and wisconsin doesn't win the traditional big 10 bowl vs future big east team tcu the conference perch as the undisputed king will be further questioned.
You can try to keep other conferences out ofa title game (mich v osu proposed game, osu president saying tcu and boise state paly "little sisters of the poor") argue that opposing players shouldn't be allowed to play (cam newton, who unlike clarett never committed armed robbery), but at some point the conference is going to have to actually beat opponents) or the huge money advantage the big 10 has enjoyed over the big east and other bcs conferences is going to dwindle.
no offense, but you are totally off your nut.
Quote from: Hards_Alumni on December 07, 2010, 04:23:43 PM
no offense, but you are totally off your nut.
Agreed. The winner and loser of the Rose Bowl each get $21M (to their conferences). Why should the Big Ten need to win bowl games, you get the same amount whether you win or lose.
BCS bowl games aren't about respect, they're about money.
Quote from: marquette99 on December 07, 2010, 04:05:11 PM
You can try to keep other conferences out ofa title game (mich v osu proposed game, osu president saying tcu and boise state paly "little sisters of the poor") argue that opposing players shouldn't be allowed to play (cam newton, who unlike clarett never committed armed robbery), but at some point the conference is going to have to actually beat opponents) or the huge money advantage the big 10 has enjoyed over the big east and other bcs conferences is going to dwindle.
It's not about championships, it's about markets. The B10 market will always dwarf the BE market.
Quote from: marquette99 on December 07, 2010, 04:05:11 PMWhile the sec is trying for its 5th straight title, the big 10 appears to be coming back in football after sinking to actually being the 7th best football conference behind the rest of the bcs and the mountain west at the lowpoint.
Listen, I can't stand the Big Televen, but to say that they've ever fallen to the point of being the 7th best football conference is ridiculous to the point of stupidity. Have the Cincinnati, West Virginia, and Pittsburgh teams ever been clearly better than the top of the Big 10? And while Miami, Virginia Tech, and Florida State have all been solid programs, has the ACC ever been clearly better top to bottom than the Big 10? Certainly at the top, the PAC-10 has had great teams from USC and now seemingly from Oregon, but I don't think they've ever in the past decade had a deeper conference. And you mention the Mountain West? Really? Why, because at one point in all of recorded history they put two teams in the top five, TCU and Utah, and that clearly didn't last not only because they played each other but because one of them was embarrassed by a bad Notre Dame team?
The SEC is obviously better than the Big 10, and I would say that most of the time the Big-12 has been as well. Maybe at times it was close with the ACC or PAC-10, but to say that the Big 10 ever fell to 7th place in football power conference pecking order is just plain dumb. Please turn in your credibility card at the service desk...it has been revoked.
Agreed big 10 bounced back last year, which was key because you can't keep going 1-6 and getting 7 invites.
I believe penn state-michigan state was the top rated regular season game in the big 10 last year with 1.7 million viewers and alabama-auburn actually topped 17 million during the second half this year. Someone correct me if they are better at reading ratings than me, but eventually that catches up with you and closes the gap. The gap has already narrowed substantially - sec payout was within a few million a team and even the new big 12 deal for a smaller conference got them fairly close.
Nebraska and the title game will help, and I believe osu and wisconsin probably win, but if not the conference will be hurt as viewers don't view b10 teams as contenders.
Minnesota has a new stadium and now, a new coach. The Big 10 is back.
When someone from above said its only about the money I agree totally.
The only Bowl games I watch every year are the one Wisconsin plays in and the national title game.
The rest are useless to me and I sure people outside of the Wisconsin market feel the same about Wisconsin being useless.
I'm not one of those who needs to watch all 35 bowl games. Although I can see why some people would around the holidays. It would make an excellent excuse to tune out relatives you can't stand. (I should try it sometime.)
Anyway they should just hand them the money and eliminate useless bowl games. The tourney did just that years ago when it eliminated the consolation game from the tourney.
I guess I compare the useless Bowl games to the NIT. If one of the Wisconsin schools is not in the NIT I don't watch it either.
Playing in a useless bowl game or the NIT is like kissing your sister.
Quote from: brewcity77 on December 07, 2010, 04:55:20 PM
The SEC is obviously better than the Big 10, and I would say that most of the time the Big-12 has been as well. Maybe at times it was close with the ACC or PAC-10, but to say that the Big 10 ever fell to 7th place in football power conference pecking order is just plain dumb. Please turn in your credibility card at the service desk...it has been revoked.
I don't know Brew City, think you need to look at 2008 and justify your claim that the Big 10 has never fallen to 7th place.
The Big 10 was ranked behind the Big East in Sagarin and barely ahead of the Mountain West. With those three teams clearly 5th, 6th and 7th that year and behind the other 4 BCS, I believe the 1-6 Bowl Season clearly made the Big 10 the 7th best conference. The Big East (already ahead in Sagarin) had a much better Bowl season at 4-2, and the Mountain West went 2-2 including knocking off Alabama in SEC country (Sugar Bowl). Here are the numbers - make your case:
1 SOUTHEASTERN (A) = 78.31 79.08 ( 1) 12
2 BIG 12 (A) = 77.86 77.80 ( 2) 12
3 ATLANTIC COAST (A) = 77.70 77.67 ( 3) 12
4 PAC-10 (A) = 76.14 75.39 ( 4) 10
5 BIG EAST (A) = 75.23 74.11 ( 5) 8
6 BIG TEN (A) = 73.21 73.49 ( 6) 11
7 MOUNTAIN WEST (A) = 70.90 71.72 ( 7) 9
MW 2-2 in bowl games including win over Bama, ranked 7th by Sagarin
Utah 31, Alabama 17
Houston 34, Air Force 28
Arizona 31, BYU 21
TCU 17, Boise State 16
Big East 4-2 in bowl games, ranked 5th by Sagarin
Connecticut 38, Buffalo 20
Rutgers 29, NC State 23
West Virginia 31, North Carolina 30
USF 41, Memphis 14
Virginia Tech 20, Cincinnati 7
Oregon State 3, Pittsburgh 0
Big 10 1-6 in bowls, ranked 6th by Sagarin
Iowa 31, South Carolina 10
Florida State 42, Wisconsin 13
Missouri 30, Northwestern 23
Kansas 42, Minnesota 21
Georgia 24, Michigan State 12
USC 38, Penn State 24
Texas 24, Ohio State 21
The SEC has been ahead of the B10 in per team revenue for some time. Right now the B10 is ahead of the B12 but they don't share equally. The B10 is generally the second highest rated conference in colle football and I dout that is going to change anytime soon.
I wonder what the SEC's bowl record would be if bowl games were played in Big 10 country.
Money drives the bowl season, which is why you will never see equality in bowl locations. The south is much more attractive than the north in early winter. So, year in and year out, Big 10 teams that are designed to withstand the climate changes they see through the Big 10 season, travel down to those great climates, where their respective roster make-up proves not to be an advantage, but a disadvantage.
Perspective people. The bowl system is flawed in so many ways and does not give an accurate depiction of which conference is best.
Agreed the Pac10 always had the semi-home edge in the Rose Bowl and SEC does down South - but Ohio State can't keep going down and getting destroyed and blame it on playing in the south. If they lose 24-21 to Arkansas, I believe the home advantage is a perfectly good argument to make, but those Florida and LSU games were embarrassing. However, even the regular seasons have really been down since the 2005 season.
I've got to tell you traveling a lot, no one outside of the Midwest considers the Big 10 oen of the top 3 conferences, and when you look at the USA Today/Sagarin end of season, they haven't been anywhere near the Top 3 since they dominated in 2005.
According to Sagarin, the Big 10 is back at 4th place but still way behind the top 3 (SE, Pac10, Big12) this year, and have been: 6th in 2009, 6th in 2008, 6th in 2007, 5th in 2006 and 1st in 2005.
2010
1 SOUTHEASTERN 80.21
2 PAC-10 80.16
3 BIG 12 79.01
4 BIG TEN 74.36 (note gap between Big 12 and Big 10)
5 ATLANTIC COAST 74.04
6 I-A INDEPENDENTS 73.49
7 BIG EAST 70.96
8 MOUNTAIN WEST 69.23
9 WESTERN ATHLETIC 68.74
10 CONFERENCE USA 63.99
Quote from: MUCam on December 07, 2010, 07:13:08 PM
I wonder what the SEC's bowl record would be if bowl games were played in Big 10 country.
To be honest it would probably be the same result. Teams are not built for climates. That is a common fallacy in sports, Very similar to the statement that you cant be a passing team in cold weather.
The Patriots, Packers are great examples of Cold weather teams that sling the ball around.
Big 10 teams should actually benefit from playing in better weather because it is much easier to block, hand the ball off, and you actually get faster thanks to the hopefully dry field. Warm weather teams will also benefit from the weather which is why it evens out.
Conversely if the game is held in poor weather the ball is fumbled more on handoffs, blockers lose their footing, and the team gets slower.
The Big Ten hasn't been the top conference in college football since 1970. Outside of a few years the power has shifted south and west. But that doesn't mean that the B10 isn't a bad conference with bad teams. And it certainly doesn't impact their market share.
Quote from: bamamarquettefan on December 07, 2010, 07:35:29 PM
Agreed the Pac10 always had the semi-home edge in the Rose Bowl and SEC does down South - but Ohio State can't keep going down and getting destroyed and blame it on playing in the south. If they lose 24-21 to Arkansas, I believe the home advantage is a perfectly good argument to make, but those Florida and LSU games were embarrassing. However, even the regular seasons have really been down since the 2005 season.
Not really. If Arkansas beat Ohio State it will not be because the game is in New Orleans. But I have tickets to the Outback Bowl and it is a little ridiculous that the game is two hours from Gainesville and basically a home game for Florida against Penn State.
I do think that overall the Big Ten is better than the Pac-10, but barely. And both are better than the ACC, which is weak at the top but has nice parity.
Quote from: The Sultan of South Wayne on December 07, 2010, 08:03:57 PM
The Big Ten hasn't been the top conference in college football since 1970. Outside of a few years the power has shifted south and west. But that doesn't mean that the B10 isn't a bad conference with bad teams. And it certainly doesn't impact their market share.
+1
The Big Ten is a big time money maker, but not the best football conference by any means. I don't know that the Big Ten got worse, its just that other schools equaled and passed them up.