Big East has added TCU beginning in 2012
According to Fanhouse...
http://ncaafootball.fanhouse.com/2010/11/29/tcu-accepts-offer-from-big-east/ (http://ncaafootball.fanhouse.com/2010/11/29/tcu-accepts-offer-from-big-east/)
Boo... now 17 basketball schools. :( :(
Well the good news is that it looks as though they won't be ejecting basketball schools at the moment.
So, the Big East now will have a representative in the Rose Bowl? Who do we root for?
Do not like this.
Sporting News: http://www.sportingnews.com/ncaa-football/story/2010-11-29/report-tcu-accepts-offer-to-join-big-east-conference
Louisville Courier-Journal: http://blogs.courier-journal.com/rickbozich/2010/11/29/big-east-snags-tcu/
NY Daily News: http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/college/2010/11/29/2010-11-29_texas_christian_universitys_horned_frogs_invited_into_the_big_east_source.html
There's something wrong with the fuzzy geography of a Texas team in the Big East? And, what's up with Horny Frogs?
This won't help Buzz' recruiting of Texas kids wanting to play in the BE.
Texas Christian is really a geographic outlier in the Mountain West too. The closest school to them now is New Mexico, which is only 100 closer than Louisville from Fort Worth. They are already flying wherever they are going.
I understand for football sakes... but that brings the conference to 17 in basketball? And TCU isn't a powerhouse for basketball.
Although football money talks, just an odd decision.
Quote from: The Sultan of South Wayne on November 29, 2010, 09:21:58 AM
Texas Christian is really a geographic outlier in the Mountain West too. The closest school to them now is New Mexico, which is only 100 closer than Louisville from Fort Worth. They are already flying wherever they are going.
+1, Im so sick of the geographic argument people make. When South Florida and Marquette joined, they officially gave up the Northeast requirement.
At least all the teams are east of the Mississippi... ;) Seriousl, it does bring the BE to a large TV market in Texas. Can't hurt recruiting.
Let's add one more basketball team. Two nine team divisions.
Quote from: marqptm on November 29, 2010, 09:35:55 AM
Let's add one more basketball team. Two nine team divisions.
Like Xavier?
At least every school in the Big East is indeed east of something. So in that respect, one could easily argue that our conference name is certainly more accurate and descriptive than some others who have problems with 1st grade math.
Quote from: marqptm on November 29, 2010, 09:35:55 AM
Let's add one more basketball team. Two nine team divisions.
I would love to go divisions, though no chance Xavier gets added without a split, maybe even more than 2 if they add 3 more schools (which they still might, people were reporting last week that TCU, Temple and Central Florida were soon to join).
Let's just say they grab UCF, which I think is a no-brainer.
West/far away: TCU, UCF, USF, Louisville, Cincinnati, Marquette, DePaul, Notre Dame, Pittsburgh
East: Syracuse, Connecticut, Providence, Rutgers, Seton Hall, St. John's, Georgetown, Villanova, West Virginia
Let the countdown begin on Marquette's departure..........
Quote from: Aughnanure on November 29, 2010, 09:47:46 AM
I would love to go divisions, though no chance Xavier gets added without a split, maybe even more than 2 if they add 3 more schools (which they still might, people were reporting last week that TCU, Temple and Central Florida were soon to join).
Let's just say they grab UCF, which I think is a no-brainer.
West/far away: TCU, UCF, USF, Louisville, Cincinnati, Marquette, DePaul, Notre Dame, Pittsburgh
East: Syracuse, Connecticut, Providence, Rutgers, Seton Hall, St. John's, Georgetown, Villanova, West Virginia
Bingo. Probably have to swap Pitt with WV though. I think Pitt has more clout.
Quote from: Aughnanure on November 29, 2010, 09:47:46 AM
I would love to go divisions, though no chance Xavier gets added without a split, maybe even more than 2 if they add 3 more schools (which they still might, people were reporting last week that TCU, Temple and Central Florida were soon to join).
Let's just say they grab UCF, which I think is a no-brainer.
West/far away: TCU, UCF, USF, Louisville, Cincinnati, Marquette, DePaul, Notre Dame, Pittsburgh
East: Syracuse, Connecticut, Providence, Rutgers, Seton Hall, St. John's, Georgetown, Villanova, West Virginia
Agreed... I don't see what's not to like here. You've just bolstered the football side of the BE, and you can easily add one more bball-only school and create two divisions there without upsetting the balance. Also, you've now paved the way for a standalone BE Network.
Some people seem to think that the Big Ten is going to go to 16 teams in all sports... if that's the case, what's wrong with the Big East having 18 in most pigskinless sports? Can you really argue for one and against the other?
Quote from: The Golden Avalanche on November 29, 2010, 09:50:40 AM
Let the countdown begin on Marquette's departure..........
Why would you automatically assume that? Just curious.
Quote from: Aughnanure on November 29, 2010, 09:47:46 AM
I would love to go divisions, though no chance Xavier gets added without a split, maybe even more than 2 if they add 3 more schools (which they still might, people were reporting last week that TCU, Temple and Central Florida were soon to join).
Let's just say they grab UCF, which I think is a no-brainer.
West/far away: TCU, UCF, USF, Louisville, Cincinnati, Marquette, DePaul, Notre Dame, Pittsburgh
East: Syracuse, Connecticut, Providence, Rutgers, Seton Hall, St. John's, Georgetown, Villanova, West Virginia
I don't think they would go by geography to create divisions. Look at the strength of the East Division compared to the West! No way would the "originals" go for that.
Quote from: Nukem2 on November 29, 2010, 09:35:29 AM
At least all the teams are east of the Mississippi... ;) Seriousl, it does bring the BE to a large TV market in Texas. Can't hurt recruiting.
TCU is actually West of the Mississippi River.
Quote from: Mayor McCheese on November 29, 2010, 09:22:29 AM
I understand for football sakes... but that brings the conference to 17 in basketball? And TCU isn't a powerhouse for basketball.
Although football money talks, just an odd decision.
Why is that an odd decision? TCU is now the best football program in the BE. Bball is not the deciding factor by any stretch.
this just refreshes my hatred for minor league football... i mean college football. it ruins just about everything.
Quote from: MerrittsMustache on November 29, 2010, 09:59:12 AM
I don't think they would go by geography to create divisions. Look at the strength of the East Division compared to the West! No way would the "originals" go for that.
I get that, but wouldnt they want to keep rivalries alive that way? I had a hard time putting Pitt and West Virginia in different divisions as well. The same goes for Georgetown, Syracuse, Connecticut and Villanova. So, anytime those 4 are in one side it will look lopsided.
I don't understand the need for divisions in an 18 team conference. 12 teams in two six-team divisions, sure, that makes sense. But 18 teams?
--You can't schedule your division twice and the other once--that would be 16 + 9 or 25 total conference games.
--You could play your division twice and two or three select games from the other division--but nobody liked that when we were in CUSA and missed out on playing Memphis.
--You could simply play a 18 game schedule with every team once and one rival twice--but that kind of defeats the purpose of divisions.
--Regardless of divisions, the league will probably seed 1 through 18 for the conference tournament -- unless they're willing to set up a structure where a weaker division could send a team to the conference championship game.
--Regardless of divisions, the RPI is going to rank teams 1 through 18 for you. As will Pomeroy, Sagarin, etc.
If you have 18 teams, it seems to make sense to have everyone play each other once and let the standings reflect a straight 1st through 18th place. We're going to get that at the end of the season anyway for tournament seeding, RPI and NCAA bids, so why play games with divisions ahead of time.
Quote from: Marquette84 on November 29, 2010, 10:56:23 AM
I don't understand the need for divisions in an 18 team conference. 12 teams in two six-team divisions, sure, that makes sense. But 18 teams?
--You can't schedule your division twice and the other once--that would be 16 + 9 or 25 total conference games.
--You could play your division twice and two or three select games from the other division--but nobody liked that when we were in CUSA and missed out on playing Memphis.
--You could simply play a 18 game schedule with every team once and one rival twice--but that kind of defeats the purpose of divisions.
--Regardless of divisions, the league will probably seed 1 through 18 for the conference tournament -- unless they're willing to set up a structure where a weaker division could send a team to the conference championship game.
--Regardless of divisions, the RPI is going to rank teams 1 through 18 for you. As will Pomeroy, Sagarin, etc.
If you have 18 teams, it seems to make sense to have everyone play each other once and let the standings reflect a straight 1st through 18th place. We're going to get that at the end of the season anyway for tournament seeding, RPI and NCAA bids, so why play games with divisions ahead of time.
Id agree with that. But I was also wondering if they go to more than 10 teams, as in if they want to go to 12 like very other conference (UCF, Temple, Nova or Memphis). At 20 teams, would divisions make sense then? I think it would be interesting to have 4 divisions of 5 teams, but thats just me (emphasis on
interesting, not saying it would work perfectly).
In an ideal world, Id love to grab two bball-only schools along with the two football schools added to even everything thing out, but I think the basketball-only schools have lost their negotiating leverage for that.
I cannot see how this will help Marquette. At this point I think our departure from the BE is now inevitable.
Quote from: Lacrosse218 on November 29, 2010, 10:10:26 AM
TCU is actually West of the Mississippi River.
All BE schools are now located east of the West Fork of the Trinity River ;D
This deal is made for TV and football. Gives a new currency lever with perhaps reopening a BE media deal by adding households in Dallas as noted in the article? What other football school to be added? Has to be another football school with this make-up. The BE already has the central Florida DMA. As the BTN showed us, set tops are key. U of Houston?
Quote from: CAINMUTINY on November 29, 2010, 11:20:58 AM
I cannot see how this will help Marquette. At this point I think our departure from the BE is now inevitable.
I agree, but I think the Bball-only schools will maintain the name Big East, as the football-only schools will most likely not be able to kick us out (not sure how voting changes with the imbalance though), and instead will just leave.
Quote from: CAINMUTINY on November 29, 2010, 11:20:58 AM
I cannot see how this will help Marquette. At this point I think our departure from the BE is now inevitable.
Possibly, but we may have just been granted a lengthy stay.
Labwarrior. I guess I understand your hatred for college football on one level, but I am hard pressed to remember a better weekend of college football than this past one.
Quote from: The Golden Avalanche on November 29, 2010, 09:50:40 AM
Let the countdown begin on Marquette's departure..........
I wonder about this myself. The BEast is becoming way too big, and a real mish mash with some schools in for BBall and at least one with a FBall team that is not in for that.
It seems to me that sooner or later, the geography, varied interests and football greed will cause a major upheaval of this cobference.
Perhaps. I am quite content with our role in the BE and I would hate to see that end
Mainly I dislike the fact that every college football team is essentially a Calipari team, corrupt to the core. Plus the rules makes no sense (PI a 15 yard foul? why is this sacrifice not a DB strategy?) And come on, recruit some soccer players that can hit a 30 yard field goal; kicking is pitiful.
Combine that with the fact that I have no allegiance to a team and the fact that college bball (a sport I love far more than I hate college football) is the victim as football schools scramble to make an offering to the BCS altar, and that's why I can't stand it.
Quote from: willie warrior on November 29, 2010, 12:20:27 PM
I wonder about this myself. The BEast is becoming way too big, and a real mish mash with some schools in for BBall and at least one with a FBall team that is not in for that.
It seems to me that sooner or later, the geography, varied interests and football greed will cause a major upheaval of this cobference.
True, but those same factors might drive other leagues to disintegrate first. As an example, how long can the Bevo10 last now that Nebraska and Colorado are out? Texas will get its own network soon, the league will lose the conference title game revenue across the league, and the league's media footprint is comparatively smaller. The SEC wanted A&M (and Oklahoma) before, so why not now?
There could be plenty of refugee institutions out there soon, independent of the Big East's efforts.
edit: typo
Quote from: NYWarrior on November 29, 2010, 12:29:34 PM
True, but those same factors might drive other leagues to disintegrate first. As an example, how long can the Bevo10 now that Nebraska and Colorado are out? Texas will get its own network soon, the league will lose the conference title game revenue across the league, and the league's media footprint is comparatively smaller. The SEC wanted A&M (and Oklahoma) before, so why not now?
There could be plenty of refugee institutions out there soon, independent of the Big East's efforts.
When this scenario was playing out this summer, it looked like Kansas was without a home.
I'd welcome them to the BE with open arms. Another football school, and another basketball power.
Conference realignment/poaching is likely far from over. My guess is that the Big East wanted to snag TCU before the Big 12 did. It also opens a door into Texas/great plains for the BE if the Big 12 collapses.
Quote from: CAINMUTINY on November 29, 2010, 12:22:27 PM
Perhaps. I am quite content with our role in the BE and I would hate to see that end
Relax, we can always join the Big Ten.
You watch. Within three years the BE will pay the basketball-only schools to take a hike. When I worked at the New York Post Lenny Robbins told me that Marquette wouldn't last 10 years in the conference because of the football angle.
I'll take that bet.
Know all they need ND to join as a football school but I guess that's like waiting for Texas to leave the Big 12 for the Big East
Van Pelt is absolutely killing this decision by the Big East right now. He thinks it is a total rush to judgement move.
Quote from: chren21 on November 29, 2010, 01:42:26 PM
Van Pelt is absolutely killing this decision by the Big East right now. He thinks it is a total rush to judgement move.
I wonder if he said the same thing when the Big East invited Miami a decade and a half ago. here's another take,
http://deadspin.com/5701222/weekend-winner-the-big-east-college-sports-honest-harlot
I don't think this is so bad. If the Big East didn't move to bring in another FB school they were always in danger of getting one of their schools poached and then having the conference disband. Now that they strengthened their FB position I think that it helps ensure the existence of the conference and as long as the conference exists and we finish in the top half for basketball then I think we'll have a home.
If I were Seton Hall or DePaul I would be more worried.
Quote from: muarmy81 on November 29, 2010, 02:09:52 PM
I don't think this is so bad. If the Big East didn't move to bring in another FB school they were always in danger of getting one of their schools poached and then having the conference disband. Now that they strengthened their FB position I think that it helps ensure the existence of the conference and as long as the conference exists and we finish in the top half for basketball then I think we'll have a home.
If I were Seton Hall or DePaul I would be more worried.
I agree. Hasn't the thought always been that the Big East needed to add a football power in order to ensure the long-term viability of the conference? So now that the BE has the best non-AQ team in the country and exposure to a new market, why is this a bad thing for Marquette? There may always be some paranoia there since we do not have a football program but I don't think this particular move spells doom for MU.
So now I guess we need to root for our conference and pull for TCU against Wisconsin in the Rose Bowl?
Villanova has to make their decision soon.
In discussions I had today with one of the girls that could be invited to the Big East dance, the Villanova decision is likely the next domino to fall, but there is also a few potential other possibilities.
If Nova decides to play football in the Big East, the conference may stop there. If Nova decides not to step up, then Big East adds one other school from a list of three. The other option is to add three more schools if Nova says no (or two more if Nova says yes). Interesting times.
I like it. Who cares if TCU isn't good at basketball – they are better than DePaul and you aren't going to get a football team you need for BCS purposes that is also good at basketball. Outside of the Big 10, the rest of the current BCS Top 10 averages being ranked 113th in basketball (at www.kenpom.com).
1. Auburn #182
2. Oregon #118
3. TCU #138
4. Stanford #75
5. Wisconsin #17
6. Ohio State #3
7. Arkansas #87
8. Michigan State #8
9. Oklahoma #114
10. LSU #78
We need; 1) the Big East to keep BCS status, and 2) Marquette to stay in the Big East. Clearly this is a tremendous boost to #1, and I don't see why it makes it any more likely that MU would be dumped than it was before the move. Still shaky perhaps, but in much better shape than before this move and the Big 10 grabbing Nebraska instead of Rutgers and other BE schools.
As a season ticket holder for Auburn football I simply root for the Big East to win enough in football to stay in teh BCS, but I'm glad MU is a basketball-only school where recruits know they can be the stars on campus in an NBA city with a great coach. I believe MU's hand is stronger than many think to stay in the BE long-term.
Quote from: bamamarquettefan on November 29, 2010, 05:15:56 PM
1. Auburn #182
2. Oregon #118
3. TCU #138
4. Stanford #75
5. Wisconsin #17
6. Ohio State #3
7. Arkansas #87
8. Michigan State #8
9. Oklahoma #114
10. LSU #78
Hard not to look at this and respect the Big 10 (12*) as the most complete basketball/football conference in the country. Wisco, OSU, MSU are solid right now in both.
Quote from: chren21 on November 29, 2010, 01:42:26 PM
Van Pelt is absolutely killing this decision by the Big East right now. He thinks it is a total rush to judgement move.
Scott Van Pelt? Lol...why would anyone care what he thinks of this?
Hmmmm maybe I'll catch a few more games on TV here in the DFW area then.. not to mention seeing an extra game in person every other year or so.. I'm game!
Quote from: The Sultan of South Wayne on November 29, 2010, 07:24:01 PM
Scott Van Pelt? Lol...why would anyone care what he thinks of this?
I don't care, just thought it was interesting comming from a national broadcasters point of view.
I assume you forgot to highlight your post about MU joining the Big Ten in teal?
Quote from: bamamarquettefan on November 29, 2010, 05:15:56 PM
I like it. Who cares if TCU isn't good at basketball – they are better than DePaul and you aren't going to get a football team you need for BCS purposes that is also good at basketball.
not according to luke winn
Quote2009-10:
TCU Efficiency Ranking: 178
Big East Teams with lower efficiency rankings: 0 (Closest: No. 172 DePaul, No. 156 Rutgers)
2008-09:
TCU Efficiency Ranking: 124
Big East Teams with lower efficiency rankings: 3 (No. 135 South Florida, No. 141 Rutgers, No. 198 DePaul)
2007-08:
TCU Efficiency Ranking: 169
Big East Teams with lower efficiency rankings: 0 (Closest: No. 164 Rutgers, No. 126 St. John's)
2006-07:
TCU Efficiency Ranking: 152
Big East Teams with lower efficiency rankings: 1 (No. 166 Rutgers)
2005-06:
TCU Efficiency Ranking: 229
Big East Teams with lower efficiency rankings: 0 (Closest: No. 162 South Florida, No. 108 St. John's)
Read more: http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2010/writers/luke_winn/11/29/tcu.big.east/index.html#ixzz16jHJbrqE
Current Timing? TCU would like to assure itself of a BCS at large bowl bid this year, and being "on deck" to join an AQconf may make those votes easier.
Longer term, this helps BE preserve its BCS AQ status...which, given the rise of MWest (and lack of BE team in FB top25) was by no means a sure thing.
Anything that preserves the BCS AQ status makes BE more viable for TV$$--important to conf., as a whole, incl the BB side
Our best preservation in this or any power conf is to keep fielding NCAA tourney quality teams...do that and we'll always have a good home
Quote from: muarmy81 on November 29, 2010, 02:09:52 PM
I don't think this is so bad. If the Big East didn't move to bring in another FB school they were always in danger of getting one of their schools poached and then having the conference disband. Now that they strengthened their FB position I think that it helps ensure the existence of the conference and as long as the conference exists and we finish in the top half for basketball then I think we'll have a home.
If I were Seton Hall or DePaul I would be more worried.
Yea, worst case was avoided by the Big East not getting raided with say Pittsburgh going to the Big Ten. Now with TCU and their football program going the Big East, it seems to lessen the chance that a Big East two way program would be in a rush to bolt for a better football conference.
I'm still concerned about Marquette's place in the Big East, but TCU joining at least lessens my fears somewhat.
I know we worry about being unweildy with up to 20 hoops teams, but if that gets be to 12 football teams it provides pretty good assurance that tcu plus any 7 are still bcs even if raided.
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on November 29, 2010, 05:03:31 PM
Villanova has to make their decision soon.
In discussions I had today with one of the girls that could be invited to the Big East dance, the Villanova decision is likely the next domino to fall, but there is also a few potential other possibilities.
If Nova decides to play football in the Big East, the conference may stop there. If Nova decides not to step up, then Big East adds one other school from a list of three. The other option is to add three more schools if Nova says no (or two more if Nova says yes). Interesting times.
Just curious Chicos, would you say that those other scenarios would be favorable for MU or at the very least not a bad scenario for MU?
I don't know why anyone could possibly be anything other than very happy with this move. The Big East just got the #3 team in the nation in football to join its conference, added the state of texas to the big east television market, and also added a very solid academic school as well (#99 in world report). basketball schools will be fine, and football will be competitive. I was really surprised other conferences weren't pushing hard for TCU, big 12 and sec in particular(the sec with a presence in texas would do a number on texas's fan base). Count your blessing we could lure a top flight football team into the conference for essentially nothing. This was a necessary move, and it probably could save the big east.
Kips, there are a couple reasons why the Big 12 and SEC weren't interested in TCU. TCU really doesn't give you the Texas market anymore that Marquette gives you the Wisconsin market. It is a small private school that has had very good, and very recent success, in football, but doesn't have widespread support in the state. (In fact, a friend of mine who is a Baylor alum believes that TCU actually benefitted by being left out of the B12 equation while Baylor was "thrown to the wolves" and struggled as a result.) When the B12 was formed TCU was basically a non-entity in football.
The B12 adding TCU really doesn't add anything to the conference...it's market overlap. The SEC isn't going to be interested in Texas unless it can land Texas or Texas A&M...and I think the latter will eventually happen.
That being said, it really is a good fit from a BE football perspective.
Quote from: marqptm on November 29, 2010, 09:35:55 AM
Let's add one more basketball team. Two nine team divisions.
I do not like divisions. I want to play everyone once. We should go to a 16 game schedule, if we stay with 17 teams. I hate mirror games that result in unbalanced schedules.
Quote from: CAINMUTINY on November 29, 2010, 11:20:58 AM
I cannot see how this will help Marquette. At this point I think our departure from the BE is now inevitable.
It helps Marquette, because one of the reasons not to have MU was that they were really not in the East. Hard to argue that one now. What would hurt MU is to start losing.
Quote from: willie warrior on November 29, 2010, 12:20:27 PM
I wonder about this myself. The BEast is becoming way too big, and a real mish mash with some schools in for BBall and at least one with a FBall team that is not in for that.
It seems to me that sooner or later, the geography, varied interests and football greed will cause a major upheaval of this cobference.
The Big East is not to big, because we have to play mirror games to get to an 18 game schedule. At this point the perfect size would be 19 teams with 12 being football teams. For basketball you would play evereyone once on an alternating home and away basis. No more mirror games. You would have 9 road games and 9 home games every year. You cannot have that with an even number of teams in the conference. The only way the conference implodes is if the basketball only schools cannot agree with the football schools on how to divide the money.
Negative: A game against TCU means one less game against Pitt or Louisville or Notre Dame.
Positive: A game against TCU means one less game against Pitt or Louisville or Notre Dame (in theory).
AND means perhaps at least another 5 years of playing Syracuse and UConn every year, and not playing SLU and Dayton every year.
Quote from: 4everwarriors on November 29, 2010, 09:18:19 AM
There's something wrong with the fuzzy geography of a Texas team in the Big East? And, what's up with Horny Frogs?
This won't help Buzz' recruiting of Texas kids wanting to play in the BE.
true and true
Quote from: bilsu on November 30, 2010, 08:23:47 AM
The Big East is not to big, because we have to play mirror games to get to an 18 game schedule. At this point the perfect size would be 19 teams with 12 being football teams. For basketball you would play evereyone once on an alternating home and away basis. No more mirror games. You would have 9 road games and 9 home games every year. You cannot have that with an even number of teams in the conference. The only way the conference implodes is if the basketball only schools cannot agree with the football schools on how to divide the money.
In theory, I agree with this. It gives the Big East enough football teams for a conference championship, likely ensures their place in the BCS, and makes for a nice, neat basketball schedule. So the perfect scenario is either 'Nova or Notre Dame join in football, then the Big East brings in two other teams that play both, most likely UCF and one other school.
However, this also creates the problem of an imbalance between football and basketball-only schools. Why in this scenario would the football schools want to keep the basketball schools around? Do any of the basketball-only schools really justify their presence? I'm sure the Big East would do just fine without Providence, Seton Hall, and DePaul. Sure, Notre Dame and us have had success, but despite that the Big East would have plenty of top end talent without us. The only real tough calls are Georgetown's history of success and tradition, and St. John's as a doorway to the New York market. My guess is that with Rutgers and Syracuse, the BEast would have no problem keeping a foothold in New York. Which means only Georgetown is really tough to get rid of, but when you only have one team you really want to keep and six you could live without, it makes it a lot easier to flush all seven.
Quote from: cheebs09 on November 29, 2010, 10:49:24 PM
Just curious Chicos, would you say that those other scenarios would be favorable for MU or at the very least not a bad scenario for MU?
I did ask point blank if there was any discussion of pushing a basketball only school(s) out of the conference and the response was "not that I'm aware of". That doesn't mean much.
Remember, to push someone out requires a lot of votes by a lot of schools. Temple was kicked out, so it can happen, but it's not a slam dunk.
Whether any of these scenarios help MU....I look at it like this. If MU wants to remain in the Big East, I think this is a good thing BUT there are caveats to it. For the Big East to survive, I believe they must do what they are doing. The question is, by doing what the are doing for football does it kill basketball? I don't know. It seems obvious they'll need to go to multiple divisions for basketball to make this fly on that side.
At some point, there are going to be 4 to 5 super conferences anyway with 20 teams or so. Will they all be football only conferences or a mix? Interesting times ahead.
Quote from: muarmy81 on November 29, 2010, 02:09:52 PM
I don't think this is so bad. If the Big East didn't move to bring in another FB school they were always in danger of getting one of their schools poached and then having the conference disband. Now that they strengthened their FB position I think that it helps ensure the existence of the conference and as long as the conference exists and we finish in the top half for basketball then I think we'll have a home.
If I were Seton Hall or DePaul I would be more worried.
I totally agree. I don't see this as a negative for Marquette. The movement in college sports is to powerhouse conferences. The Big East is on their way there and we are already in it. Smaller/weaker conferences are in danger of being poached into oblivion, we are in a conference, that now with this move, isn't going anywhere.
The comment from one Dallas sportswriter was funny
Sportswriting legend Dan Jenkins, a Fort Worth native and a TCU alum, remains the Horned Frogs' unofficial First Fan. He is delighted the Frogs will play east instead of west.
"Mainly, I like the time zone," Jenkins said in an e-mail. "America will have a chance to know who we played and the result."
And he feels pretty good about the results to come, too.
"We should keep winning football games," Jenkins said, "but we're not likely to win a basketball game the rest of my lifetime."
TCU will be able to begin selling playing in the Big East to recruits. Will this hurt Buzz's pipeline to Texas?
Quote from: TallTitan34 on November 30, 2010, 11:59:22 AM
TCU will be able to begin selling playing in the Big East to recruits. Will this hurt Buzz's pipeline to Texas?
Will it help? Now Buzz can promise some local homecoming games to Texas recruits.
Was TCU joining the BE good for the BE?
According to ESPN's Pat Forde it was THE ONLY GOOD THING, this year, to wit:
• Big East Conference
Overall Grade: F. After several years of defying doomsayers and producing a BCS-worthy champion, the league bottomed out. The league has no quality wins out of conference and finally ended a five-week absence from the BCS Top 25 this week. It has been a Flavor of the Month conference, with no one able to play at a consistently high level. It has even suffered in comparison to non-AQ leagues like the Mountain West and Western Athletic -- though it made a good move for its football future this week by officially bringing TCU aboard in 2012.
Quote from: houwarrior on November 30, 2010, 01:59:52 PM
Was TCU joining the BE good for the BE?
According to ESPN's Pat Forde it was THE ONLY GOOD THING, this year, to wit:
• Big East Conference
Overall Grade: F. After several years of defying doomsayers and producing a BCS-worthy champion, the league bottomed out. The league has no quality wins out of conference and finally ended a five-week absence from the BCS Top 25 this week. It has been a Flavor of the Month conference, with no one able to play at a consistently high level. It has even suffered in comparison to non-AQ leagues like the Mountain West and Western Athletic -- though it made a good move for its football future this week by officially bringing TCU aboard in 2012.
key word here is "football" future
Quote from: Litehouse on November 30, 2010, 01:17:37 PM
Will it help? Now Buzz can promise some local homecoming games to Texas recruits.
Good point Litehouse.
Quote from: TallTitan34 on November 30, 2010, 03:44:02 PM
Good point Litehouse.
I do not know exactually where TCU is, but I am sure there are a lot of players from Texas that do not live anywhere near TCU. So it may not be a local game for them.
Forth Worth I believe.
Quote from: bilsu on November 30, 2010, 04:45:33 PM
I do not know exactually where TCU is, but I am sure there are a lot of players from Texas that do not live anywhere near TCU. So it may not be a local game for them.
TCU is in Fort (not Forth-lol) Worth, and given the weather (warmer here), and distance: TCU is no more than 250 miles from any major Texas city, and it is 1200 miles to next closest BE city....yes parents will consider TCU a "local" game worth attending, and TCU will be a local game for them.
I am in DFW tomorrow, after my 50 minute flight from Houston.A typical commute for many of us.
Interesting conjecture around the conference has the Big East going to 12 football teams including Villanova's step up and then asking Georgetown, St. John's, and Notre Dame to stay along with a fourth school to get a conference at 16.
Not sure what pull Cottingham has at the table but it sure can't hurt that based on performance, Marquette should be front of the line for that fourth spot.
Quote from: houwarrior on November 30, 2010, 07:48:22 PM
TCU is in Fort (not Forth-lol) Worth, and given the weather (warmer here), and distance: TCU is no more than 250 miles from any major Texas city, and it is 1200 miles to next closest BE city....yes parents will consider TCU a "local" game worth attending, and TCU will be a local game for them.
While I agree with your larger point, Louisville is only 870 miles from Fort Worth...the next closest BE city.
Quote from: The Golden Avalanche on November 30, 2010, 08:25:55 PMNot sure what pull Cottingham has at the table but it sure can't hurt that based on performance, Marquette should be front of the line for that fourth spot.
Based on performance, yes, but I'm always leery of going up against Providence if it comes to staying in the conference. Seton Hall and DePaul could easily go away, but Providence has been so influential with the formation of the conference and its administration over the years that I'd hate to be staring them down if the rest of the conference did decide it was time for push to come to shove.
Quote from: brewcity77 on November 30, 2010, 08:45:13 PM
Based on performance, yes, but I'm always leery of going up against Providence if it comes to staying in the conference. Seton Hall and DePaul could easily go away, but Providence has been so influential with the formation of the conference and its administration over the years that I'd hate to be staring them down if the rest of the conference did decide it was time for push to come to shove.
Exactly. PC is our main competition which is why we have to hope Cottingham has built some friends these last couple of years because it will be a battle.
Quote from: The Golden Avalanche on November 30, 2010, 08:25:55 PM
Interesting conjecture around the conference has the Big East going to 12 football teams including Villanova's step up and then asking Georgetown, St. John's, and Notre Dame to stay along with a fourth school to get a conference at 16.
Not sure what pull Cottingham has at the table but it sure can't hurt that based on performance, Marquette should be front of the line for that fourth spot.
I have done all the web searching I can, and I havent found a word of this---what is the source of your "interesting conjecture around the conference"? Thanks
If they drop to 12 teams, we don't stand a chance unless ND sticks up for us. Traditions run too deep. I have not heard anything about this so I would be surprised if this is going anywhere.
Quote from: The Golden Avalanche on November 30, 2010, 08:25:55 PM
Interesting conjecture around the conference has the Big East going to 12 football teams including Villanova's step up and then asking Georgetown, St. John's, and Notre Dame to stay along with a fourth school to get a conference at 16.
Not sure what pull Cottingham has at the table but it sure can't hurt that based on performance, Marquette should be front of the line for that fourth spot.
There is definitely a scenario that has been discussed with at least one of the schools potentially recruited on the football side that could lead to 3 more schools added (in addition to TCU).
What that does on the basketball side is unknown.
I don't think the Big East wants any BB school to leave. Maybe Seton Hall.
Nate Silver weighs in, mostly looking at the football impact of TCU.
http://fivethirtyeight.blogs.nytimes.com/2010/12/01/will-the-big-east-and-t-c-u-live-happily-ever-after/
Quote from: The Golden Avalanche on November 30, 2010, 08:25:55 PM
Interesting conjecture around the conference has the Big East going to 12 football teams including Villanova's step up and then asking Georgetown, St. John's, and Notre Dame to stay along with a fourth school to get a conference at 16.
Not sure what pull Cottingham has at the table but it sure can't hurt that based on performance, Marquette should be front of the line for that fourth spot.
I do not see them keeping Notre Dame under this senario, because there will always be a risk that Notre Dame decides to join the Big 10. If they were to downsize the conference, they are going to make sure it is stable. Therefore Notre Dame would be out. Notre Dame would have to join in football (in that case they would be one of the 12 football schools) or leave.
Quote from: bilsu on December 02, 2010, 08:32:34 AM
I do not see them keeping Notre Dame under this senario, because there will always be a risk that Notre Dame decides to join the Big 10. If they were to downsize the conference, they are going to make sure it is stable. Therefore Notre Dame would be out. Notre Dame would have to join in football (in that case they would be one of the 12 football schools) or leave.
Stability has been, and always will be, an elusive characteristic with this conference.
If the Big East couldn't strong arm Notre Dame into a football membership over the last six years of realignment, why do you think they will strong arm them in the future?
Considering all the wild crap going on with conferences now, their hopes for the future aren't so far-fetched.
Quote from: The Golden Avalanche on December 02, 2010, 09:43:54 AM
Stability has been, and always will be, an elusive characteristic with this conference.
If the Big East couldn't strong arm Notre Dame into a football membership over the last six years of realignment, why do you think they will strong arm them in the future?
Considering all the wild crap going on with conferences now, their hopes for the future aren't so far-fetched.
I do not think they have tried to stong arm Notre Dame in the past. The premise I was responding to was the fact that the Big East will invite enough schools to get to 12 football teams and then jettison some basketball only schools to stay at 16 total teams. The strong arm that should come is to give Notre Dame the choice of being the 12th football school or leaving the conference. This scenario only develops, if the Big East decides to drop schools. I simply do not see dropping schools and keeping Notre Dame as a basketball only school. As long as Notre Dame is independent in football they are a risk to leave. My gut feeling is that they would refuse to join the Big East in football. At some point it will be significantly more financially lucrative for them to join the Big 10 than it will be to remain independent or join the Big East. That day might come when they lose their BCS bowl status. I see the next step in these wars being the big conferences targeting Notre Dames' special BCS status. Once that happens Notre Dame will be pushed into a BCS conference. The Big East goal in the end should be to have a stable conference. Once you have cut teams it would not be smart to keep Notre Dame without football, because they will always be a threat to hurt conference stability. As Marquette fans, I think we have to hope Notre Dame joins in football or leaves. I do not like our chances of being one of the four remaining basketball only schools, if Notre Dame is claiming one of the four spots.
Sorry to break up the comment flow but I ran across this in Luke Winn's power rankings and thought it was pretty interesting.
QuotePanthers coach Jamie Dixon -- known as TCU's miracle man in 1986 -- apparently instigated the Horned Frogs' jump to the Big East. In a press conference to announce the move on Monday, TCU athletic director Chris Del Conte said the idea came from a discussion between him and Dixon at a TCU-Baylor football game in September -- "and from there it was a dream that became a reality."
Dixon confirmed it later on Monday, saying, "We tossed things around, and I said, 'Hey, why don't you join the Big East conference?' [Del Conte] looked at me like I'm crazy at first. But that's kind of how it got started, people reaching out to different people."
(Of course, it also mattered that TCU had football team worthy of an at-large BCS bid, and the Big East was desperate for more football teams, especially one sitting in the nation's No. 5 TV market. But the Dixon story is nice, and the first time the Panthers and Horned Frogs meet in basketball, we'll hopefully be treated with a higher-res version of his famed '86 postgame interview -- probably to distract us from a 20-point rout.
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2010/writers/luke_winn/12/02/power.rankings/index.html?eref=twitter_feed (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2010/writers/luke_winn/12/02/power.rankings/index.html?eref=twitter_feed)