MU, UWM open to continuing series
http://www.jsonline.com/blogs/sports/110898049.html
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My thoughts exactly.
This series is a joke. Nothing to gain.
We're a basketball program, not a charity for state schools. Let it die.
Quote from: MUfan12 on November 27, 2010, 01:07:17 AM
My thoughts exactly.
This series is a joke. Nothing to gain.
We're a basketball program, not a charity for state schools. Let it die.
+1.
It's a waste of a series. I'd rather be playing more meaningful road games in our key recruiting/alumni areas. I'm not sure if the series with Green Bay is gonna be on similar terms, but at least that makes sense in so far as 1) one of our former all-time greats coaches at Green Bay, so it's a homecoming series for him, and 2) the occasional games at the Resch Center are good for alumni in Northern Wisconsin.
Quote from: MUfan12 on November 27, 2010, 01:07:17 AM
My thoughts exactly.
This series is a joke. Nothing to gain.
We're a basketball program, not a charity for state schools. Let it die.
Which is exactly why we will do it and continue to act in a manner that defies logic. I'd expect nothing less of Marquette then to extend this series. Hell, why not make it a home and home, 1 for 1 swap.
Good Lord are we stupid. Crean was an idiot for agreeing to this thing in the first place. Get through these 5 games and act like a big boy program. Next time you see UCLA go to Cal State Northridge, Loyola Marymount, UC Irvine..EVER...let me know, let alone once every 2 or 3 years. Next time we see Duke go to UNC Asheville, or UNC Wilmington, or High Point...once every 2 or 3 years...let me know. The examples are endless.
And please, Lord, no one bring up UC and Xavier. It's such an apples to clouds comparison it's not worth a breath of air to comment on that series.
2 for 1 or 3 for 1? Whaaaaa?
In comparison to the Northeast Iowa Sewing Repair Tech College games, I love the UWM series.
Even love going to the Cell tonight. RENEW!
The Arena should have been demolished years ago.
Quote from: mu_hilltopper on November 27, 2010, 09:09:14 AM
In comparison to the Northeast Iowa Sewing Repair Tech College games, I love the UWM series.
Even love going to the Cell tonight. RENEW!
Fine...they can come to our place EVERY TIME
Just FYI Chicos, Duke plays at UNC Greensboro this year. I don't see why we can't play this series. Everyone needs some cupcakes to warm up with.
Quote from: denverMU on November 27, 2010, 10:17:47 AM
Just FYI Chicos, Duke plays at UNC Greensboro this year. I don't see why we can't play this series. Everyone needs some cupcakes to warm up with.
Of course everyone needs cupcakes to warm with, we are the king of cupcakes. The idea is to do that without helping build another program across town.
I'm actually MUCH more supportive of playing at Green Bay then at Milwaukee. At least playing at Green Bay gives MU some exposure to the northern part of the state where everyone bleeds red and white. Playing in Milwaukee benefits only one entity...UW hyphen Milwaukee. I have zero interest in helping that school out, and I love Rob Jeter. Great guy, runs a clean program unlike his predecessor. I'm thrilled that Bud is gone, not a great guy. Doesn't matter, let them build their program on their own and get it to where it needs to be. If over the next 10 years they can get it to a Butler level, then fine, schedule it appropriately. Otherwise, this game (if it's played at all) should be at MU only.
I don't have a problem with the series as long as the terms are decent (5 for 1 seems okay to me). What irks me is all of the predictors who said the Bradley Center would be sold out and Marquette will earn millions and the TV ratings would be sky high for series.
Aaahhh... No. The first game drew a large crowd (I don't recall a sellout however). After that the crowds have quite frankly been disappointing.
And now revisionists are saying that the series draws more than most buy games. That's great but that is not what they said five years ago. Where are the huge crowds and TV ratings?
Sooner or later Marquette will lose a game to UWM and then that will be it. If we ever don't renew the series we are ducking UWM. Whatever.
The game is more enjoyable than most buy games so let's ensure the terms of the deal are good and move on.
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on November 27, 2010, 10:38:33 AM
I'm actually MUCH more supportive of playing at Green Bay then at Milwaukee. At least playing at Green Bay gives MU some exposure to the northern part of the state where everyone bleeds red and white. Playing in Milwaukee benefits only one entity...UW hyphen Milwaukee. I have zero interest in helping that school out, and I love Rob Jeter. Great guy, runs a clean program unlike his predecessor. I'm thrilled that Bud is gone, not a great guy. Doesn't matter, let them build their program on their own and get it to where it needs to be. If over the next 10 years they can get it to a Butler level, then fine, schedule it appropriately. Otherwise, this game (if it's played at all) should be at MU only.
So we'll only play UW-M when they're in a national championship? Doesn't that defeat the purpose of a cupcake? And I can't imagine that we're helping UW-M build their program much by hammering them every season. Wouldn't think there are too many top-500 recruits sitting around, watching that game, and thinking "I could really put that UW-M team over the top." Maybe I'm wrong, though.
I just see it as a really cheap cupcake (no travel expenses) that draws a large crowd. Until they actually win a game, I don't see it as much riskier than scheduling Prairie View A&M.
Living in Milwaukee and frequently interacting with UW-M students and alumni, I say keep it going. 3-1 or 4-1 sounds about right. Back when Pearl was there, I got sick of hearing them say we were ducking them...and in all honesty, I believe we were ducking them. They had a better team than us for a few of the lean years after our Final Four, and we never even went to the table to negotiate. When their downfall was imminent, we finally made a deal and have been in control of the series. But if by some miracle Jeter revives the program, I want us to be ready and willing to lay the smack down again if they do get good. Maybe when you live across the country it doesn't matter, but I heard it from people at work, at the bar, at parties...I got sick of it. So let's keep playing them and keep beating them. If nothing else, the Horizon is a higher level of basketball than a lot of the other cupcakes out there. We could do worse than this series, and if we keep it going maybe we can overtake Syracuse for the most consecutive wins against one opponent (currently 44-0 over Colgate).
Quote from: brewcity77 on November 27, 2010, 04:42:39 PM
we can overtake Syracuse for the most consecutive wins against one opponent (currently 44-0 over Colgate).
Go Red Raiders.......oh wait.....go Raiders.
Quote from: denverMU on November 27, 2010, 10:17:47 AM
Just FYI Chicos, Duke plays at UNC Greensboro this year. I don't see why we can't play this series. Everyone needs some cupcakes to warm up with.
I think playing UWM makes a lot more sense and has a lot more interest (in Milwaukee anyways) than these other cupcakes that we play.
I've argued for years that we should play Loyola-Chicago, St. Louis, U of Detroit and/or other smaller Jesuit schools instead of some of these cupcakes. At least those schools have a similar mission and if we're going to "help" a program by playing them we should play other Jesuit schools.
Fact: SLU, University of Detroit, and Loyoloa-Chicago won't accept 4-1 or 5-1. Anything, we should pass.
Does anyone remember what the deal was with Valpo? Was it 1 for 1? We went there and had to be saved by a late DJ three.
UWM is never going to rival MU and beating their butts every year, with an occasional close game or loss every so often, isn't going to change that. In fact, it could be argued that the gulf between UWM and MU has never been greater over the past 15 years than it is now.
It is a cheap cupcake because we don't have to pay travel costs. It generates some local interest. I don't see much problem with continuing it.
Quote from: MisterDMU on November 27, 2010, 04:37:34 PM
So we'll only play UW-M when they're in a national championship? Doesn't that defeat the purpose of a cupcake? And I can't imagine that we're helping UW-M build their program much by hammering them every season. Wouldn't think there are too many top-500 recruits sitting around, watching that game, and thinking "I could really put that UW-M team over the top." Maybe I'm wrong, though.
I just see it as a really cheap cupcake (no travel expenses) that draws a large crowd. Until they actually win a game, I don't see it as much riskier than scheduling Prairie View A&M.
Not what I said. If we insist on continuing to play this series, then they should ALL BE AT HOME. We should play them at their place when they get good enough to warrant it.
It's not a matter of recruiting, it's a matter that ONLY bad things can happen from this series. There is no upside at all, but plenty of downside.
Quote from: brewcity77 on November 27, 2010, 04:42:39 PM
Living in Milwaukee and frequently interacting with UW-M students and alumni, I say keep it going. 3-1 or 4-1 sounds about right. Back when Pearl was there, I got sick of hearing them say we were ducking them...and in all honesty, I believe we were ducking them. They had a better team than us for a few of the lean years after our Final Four, and we never even went to the table to negotiate. When their downfall was imminent, we finally made a deal and have been in control of the series. But if by some miracle Jeter revives the program, I want us to be ready and willing to lay the smack down again if they do get good. Maybe when you live across the country it doesn't matter, but I heard it from people at work, at the bar, at parties...I got sick of it. So let's keep playing them and keep beating them. If nothing else, the Horizon is a higher level of basketball than a lot of the other cupcakes out there. We could do worse than this series, and if we keep it going maybe we can overtake Syracuse for the most consecutive wins against one opponent (currently 44-0 over Colgate).
We weren't ducking them. I was there when we made the decision to stop playing them. Bruce was cheating his ass off and we knew it. Bud was playing his crap nonsense in the papers and on the radio and we were not going to get caught up in that nonsense.
Here's the problem with this series, some day UW hyphen Milwaukee will win one of these games, and when they do it makes it nearly impossible to stop playing them because then truly people will claim we are ducking them. There is no upside to this game. You win, you're supposed to. You lose, you take it on the chin all year long, the already anti-MU media piles on more and more, you give life to little brother, etc, etc. Absolutely zero upside.
There is a reason why most programs that are in our position do not play little brother on their home court, let alone once every 3 games like they're talking about. There will always be exceptions, but most are wise enough not to do it. Apparently we aren't wise enough.
Quote from: HoopsMalone on November 27, 2010, 06:58:33 PM
Does anyone remember what the deal was with Valpo? Was it 1 for 1? We went there and had to be saved by a late DJ three
I think that was a 2 for 1 deal; they played here in 2003 and 2005, we went there in 2006.
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on November 27, 2010, 07:11:58 PM
We weren't ducking them. I was there when we made the decision to stop playing them.
Wasnt it Bo Ryan that decided to end the series when he was at UWM? This is what I was told by people close to UWM/Bo that would take every opportunity to sh*t on MU, and they even admitted it was Ryan that ended the series in 99.
Quote from: GOMU1104 on November 28, 2010, 01:52:16 PM
Wasnt it Bo Ryan that decided to end the series when he was at UWM? This is what I was told by people close to UWM/Bo that would take every opportunity to sh*t on MU, and they even admitted it was Ryan that ended the series in 99.
In early 1999 we were all in a room at the Milwaukee Hilton with the AD, coach, several Asst AD's and it was clearly stated we weren't going to play them the next few years. There were some bitterness starting to creep in from both sides already at that point. Bo was the coach and Mike Deane was still at MU. It wasn't until April that Crean was hired, but that decision was already made about UWM scheduling for the 99-00 and 00-01 season before he even got there.
When Bruce got there a few years later, it really escalated because of his willful disdain for something called the NCAA Rule Book. Bud was out there politicking and feeling high and mighty because he either didn't care or was too stupid to know what his own basketball coach was doing under his nose.
Quote from: Avenue Commons on November 27, 2010, 05:16:52 PM
I think playing UWM makes a lot more sense and has a lot more interest (in Milwaukee anyways) than these other cupcakes that we play.
I've argued for years that we should play Loyola-Chicago, St. Louis, U of Detroit and/or other smaller Jesuit schools instead of some of these cupcakes. At least those schools have a similar mission and if we're going to "help" a program by playing them we should play other Jesuit schools.
I'd love to play SLU, Loyola, or Detroit, but I don't think we'd get the same terms as most cupcakes. 2 for 1 if we were lucky.
I actually don't mind a 2 for 1 with UWM. Its a "road" game in Milwaukee against an average program, which really helps our RPI.
I watched the game on SNY. It was a little nastalgic for me to see us playing on our "home" court. Could almost see Al working the refs.
Quote from: Avenue Commons on November 27, 2010, 05:16:52 PMI've argued for years that we should play Loyola-Chicago, St. Louis, U of Detroit and/or other smaller Jesuit schools instead of some of these cupcakes. At least those schools have a similar mission and if we're going to "help" a program by playing them we should play other Jesuit schools.
I was in St. Louis for the holiday weekend and went to the SLU/IUPUI game saturday afternoon (pleasantly enough it was 'Easy' Ed Macauley day). I got into a discussion with someone there about a possible SLU/MU match up. They said that Majerus and SLU want to play MU and that it is MU that doesn't want to do it. Now, the source cannot be said to be credible, but if this is the case... I cannot think of a reason why we wouldn't want to play SLU (regardless of 1 and 1 or 2 and 1 series).
Anyone have any inside scoop on this?
Is it because they are a mid level team in the A-10 that could possibly pull a win out and we wouldnt want to expose ourselves to this possible embarrasment? Is it maybe because going to SLU wouldn't be financially attractive enough for us? The place holds 10,600 (IUPUI attendance was 5558- on a holiday weekend with no students; not that SLU ever has a good student turnout).
May be repayment for the BF'ing Rick laid on MU.
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on November 27, 2010, 07:11:58 PM
There is a reason why most programs that are in our position do not play little brother on their home court, let alone once every 3 games like they're talking about. There will always be exceptions, but most are wise enough not to do it. Apparently we aren't wise enough.
+1 No reason at all to play them. I hate that we buckled under pressure from outsiders.
Quote from: jaybilaswho? on November 29, 2010, 10:32:13 AM
I was in St. Louis for the holiday weekend and went to the SLU/IUPUI game saturday afternoon (pleasantly enough it was 'Easy' Ed Macauley day). I got into a discussion with someone there about a possible SLU/MU match up. They said that Majerus and SLU want to play MU and that it is MU that doesn't want to do it. Now, the source cannot be said to be credible, but if this is the case... I cannot think of a reason why we wouldn't want to play SLU (regardless of 1 and 1 or 2 and 1 series).
Anyone have any inside scoop on this?
Is it because they are a mid level team in the A-10 that could possibly pull a win out and we wouldnt want to expose ourselves to this possible embarrasment? Is it maybe because going to SLU wouldn't be financially attractive enough for us? The place holds 10,600 (IUPUI attendance was 5558- on a holiday weekend with no students; not that SLU ever has a good student turnout).
We played a home & home with Dayton several years back. I really don't see a difference between Dayton & SLU.
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on November 27, 2010, 07:08:09 PM
Not what I said. If we insist on continuing to play this series, then they should ALL BE AT HOME. We should play them at their place when they get good enough to warrant it.
It's not a matter of recruiting, it's a matter that ONLY bad things can happen from this series. There is no upside at all, but plenty of downside.
Of course, you can say that only bad things can happen from playing any non-BCS school either home or away. In the end, the games are going to happen, though the economics amy well be adjusted?
Quote from: Brewtown Andy on November 29, 2010, 12:31:07 PM
We played a home & home with Dayton several years back. I really don't see a difference between Dayton & SLU.
And there is more of a connection between MU and SLU [Majerus; Jesuit Univ's; heavy student recruiting efforst by both Univ's in each others city; old C-USA opponents] than there is with Dayton... unless I am missing something.
Quote from: jaybilaswho? on November 29, 2010, 12:57:57 PM
And there is more of a connection between MU and SLU [Majerus; Jesuit Univ's; heavy student recruiting efforst by both Univ's in each others city; old C-USA opponents] than there is with Dayton... unless I am missing something.
There's some bad blood with Dayton. Gregory broke off that home and home series we had. Doubt we'll see them on the schedule anytime soon.
Quote from: 4everwarriors on November 29, 2010, 10:34:56 AM
May be repayment for the BF'ing Rick laid on MU.
Is this the infamous Steamer Incident?
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on November 27, 2010, 01:27:08 AM
Crean was an idiot
First honest and correct statement made by the Bail Bondsman
Quote from: MisterDMU on November 27, 2010, 04:37:34 PM
So we'll only play UW-M when they're in a national championship? Doesn't that defeat the purpose of a cupcake? And I can't imagine that we're helping UW-M build their program much by hammering them every season. Wouldn't think there are too many top-500 recruits sitting around, watching that game, and thinking "I could really put that UW-M team over the top." Maybe I'm wrong, though.
I just see it as a really cheap cupcake (no travel expenses) that draws a large crowd. Until they actually win a game, I don't see it as much riskier than scheduling Prairie View A&M.
You're not wrong
If a local recruit is good enough to draw the interest of Buzz Williams and Marquette, that kid isn't going to think hmmmm, maybe i'll accept that offer from UWM instead vs playing in the Big East, packed houses at the BC, and national television MU games on ESPN.
Obviously the terms of any new deal would have to be very favorable towards Marquette or then tell UWM tough crap. If though they'll accept some sort of 4-1 or 5-1 ratio for MU home games, then i'd be for keeping UWM on the schedule vs some other should be easy win type of team.
Quote from: jaybilaswho? on November 29, 2010, 10:32:13 AM
I was in St. Louis for the holiday weekend and went to the SLU/IUPUI game saturday afternoon (pleasantly enough it was 'Easy' Ed Macauley day). I got into a discussion with someone there about a possible SLU/MU match up. They said that Majerus and SLU want to play MU and that it is MU that doesn't want to do it. Now, the source cannot be said to be credible, but if this is the case... I cannot think of a reason why we wouldn't want to play SLU (regardless of 1 and 1 or 2 and 1 series).
Anyone have any inside scoop on this?
Is it because they are a mid level team in the A-10 that could possibly pull a win out and we wouldnt want to expose ourselves to this possible embarrasment? Is it maybe because going to SLU wouldn't be financially attractive enough for us? The place holds 10,600 (IUPUI attendance was 5558- on a holiday weekend with no students; not that SLU ever has a good student turnout).
No inside scoop for you but I did have the opportunity to speak with Majerus for a bit when I was at SLU Law School last year. This is pretty consistent with what he said, that they want to play MU and DePaul and neither school will put them on the schedule. Probably because they have a higher opinion of their program than their true place.
I mean, MU only put UWM on the schedule when they finally agreed to a 4 and 1. If SLU is asking for anything more than that, they're delusional, which unfortunately, was a symptom I saw among too many people working at that University.
Comparing Dayton-MU in '03 and SLU-MU in '10 is Apples and oranges because it misses the very obvious point that at the time of the Dayton series, we were in Conference USA, and now we're in the Big East and frankly, need a couple more cupcakes if we want to get to 20-22 wins each campaign.