There are times when Buzz pulls players who have hit their stride and should be left on the floor to make things happen.
Watch closely. You will see MU substitutions that seem counterproductive or that are momentum killers.
I think the idea is to see how different players play together.
didn't really notice it but I wasn't really looking for it. Brian Gregory of Dayton does this ALL THE TIME and it pisses the sh*t outta me
I think he'll cut down on the subs later in the year. he just wants to find the guys that work best together when they're on the floor.
Yep, right now we have the luxury of trial and error when we have comfortable leads to fall back on.
Quote from: seakm4 on November 17, 2010, 11:39:37 PM
I think he'll cut down on the subs later in the year. he just wants to find the guys that work best together when they're on the floor.
Yep
Think about all the guys who could be apart of the playing rotation this year that weren't on the team last year or played very little.
Blue
Crowder
Smith
Gardner
Otule
Cadougan
Williams maybe
That's six guys for sure and maybe seven who Buzz has to figure out how best to use them and in what situations. Games like these before the Big East portion of the schedule begins is where Buzz has to balance experimenting with player rotations while still trying to make sure games are won.
Plus, with so many new and young players, odds are high that we'll see erratic production from many of these new guys from game to game, even as we go deeper into the schedule. Thus, Buzz will be forced to try and feel things out more from game to game with player rotations compared to last season where Buzz pretty much stuck with the same seven players with little other substituting.
I actually think that Buzz has a rule in place for the last couple of days of subbing the last person to make a shot. I dunno how this helps us improve, but I have a lot of trust in Buzz.
For example, after Gardner made that shot from the nice JC pass, he mouthed the F word when he heard the buzzer. He didn't even have to look back to the bench or scorers table, he thought he was getting subbed.
I've noticed similar things the last 3 games, if you look back, Buzz always subs the last person to make a shot. Just kinda weird
Quote from: kryza on November 18, 2010, 04:04:47 AM
I actually think that Buzz has a rule in place for the last couple of days of subbing the last person to make a shot. I dunno how this helps us improve, but I have a lot of trust in Buzz.
For example, after Gardner made that shot from the nice JC pass, he mouthed the F word when he heard the buzzer. He didn't even have to look back to the bench or scorers table, he thought he was getting subbed.
I've noticed similar things the last 3 games, if you look back, Buzz always subs the last person to make a shot. Just kinda weird
Many times he does this for situational team needs. Meaning, he'll sub offense for defense so in the example you mentioned he was subbing Fulce, I believe, for Gardner b/c Fulce is better defensively than Gardner and if there was a dead ball on the defensive end he was subbing Gardner for Fulce b/c Gardner is more of an offensive threat than Joe.
I'm not really a fan of subbing people in and out of the game. I think if someone has found their rhythm (which may take more than 2 or 3 trips down the court) they should stay in. If somethings working, leave it be. Its kind of like Navy running the option against Notre Dame... run the same play until it doesn't work anymore ;) Buzz obviously has a different game plan than me and if its working, thats fine, too.
What I really don't understand though is why, amongst all of the substitutions, hasn't Jamail Jones seen any valuable playing time. It seemed like during his recruiting process, he was much more hyped up than Gardner or Smith. Yet he's only seen 11 total minutes! Is he in the doghouse or is he just playing God-awful in practice?
I really think Buzz is just tinkering around with different combinations. I think He is trying a lot of different things now to see what works before the real games begin on Monday.
Quote from: kryza on November 18, 2010, 04:04:47 AM
I actually think that Buzz has a rule in place for the last couple of days of subbing the last person to make a shot. I dunno how this helps us improve, but I have a lot of trust in Buzz.
For example, after Gardner made that shot from the nice JC pass, he mouthed the F word when he heard the buzzer. He didn't even have to look back to the bench or scorers table, he thought he was getting subbed.
I've noticed similar things the last 3 games, if you look back, Buzz always subs the last person to make a shot. Just kinda weird
I did notice that Gardner play, and thought the same thing....like he was pissed his time was up already. Knowing Buzz, I bet its some rule he put in place to remind himself to keep switching things around and seeing different combinations.
I like the way we're subbing. It's the only way we're going to be able to keep up the level of intensity we're trying to bring to the game.
It reminds me of hockey. Get your line out there for 3 minutes and then swap. To heck with momentum, you've got to keep your guys from getting exhausted when you're going balls-to-the-wall all game.
I hadn't really noticed this, but if it's happening, Buzz is probably doing it on purpose. I'm sure it's a teaching tool that doesn't let the team become complacent on offense, relying on the hot hand. Buzz is not an idiot. I'm guessing if DJO hits back to back threes in the Duke game, he wont be heading to the bench at the next timeout. That said, this team pretty clearly goes 10 deep, and we are going to have to get used to a lot more substitutions than in previous years.
Quote from: 1001 N. 4th St. on November 18, 2010, 08:05:11 AM
I'm not really a fan of subbing people in and out of the game. I think if someone has found their rhythm (which may take more than 2 or 3 trips down the court) they should stay in. If somethings working, leave it be. Its kind of like Navy running the option against Notre Dame... run the same play until it doesn't work anymore ;) Buzz obviously has a different game plan than me and if its working, thats fine, too.
What I really don't understand though is why, amongst all of the substitutions, hasn't Jamail Jones seen any valuable playing time. It seemed like during his recruiting process, he was much more hyped up than Gardner or Smith. Yet he's only seen 11 total minutes! Is he in the doghouse or is he just playing God-awful in practice?
Please forward your resume to:
Marquette Athletic Department
Attn: Head Men's Basketball Coach Opening
Al McGuire Center
770 N. 12th Street
Milwaukee, WI 53233
Quote from: Ners on November 18, 2010, 09:17:38 AM
Please forward your resume to:
Marquette Athletic Department
Attn: Head Men's Basketball Coach Opening
Al McGuire Center
770 N. 12th Street
Milwaukee, WI 53233
Just wondering how much you are charging Buzz for BJ's nowadays.
I understand that you love him, and lot of people around here do, but your love borders on fanboy.
just when i was beginning to miss MUAvenue and his always positive comments.
Three games in and this is the best you can do? your slipping MUAve. I know you can find something more despicable about our coach/program.
Quote from: Hards_Alumni on November 18, 2010, 09:20:01 AM
Just wondering how much you are charging Buzz for BJ's nowadays.
I understand that you love him, and lot of people around here do, but your love borders on fanboy.
Not to mention thats the brazillionth time Ners has used that line... Sooo predictable. Why don't you stop trying to be clever Ners and read the post. If you don't know why Jones isn't playing, then save your knee slappers for another thread
Quote from: Hards_Alumni on November 18, 2010, 09:20:01 AM
Just wondering how much you are charging Buzz for BJ's nowadays.
I understand that you love him, and lot of people around here do, but your love borders on fanboy.
Aren't you the former wrestler? Pretty sure you've done more rolling around in tights with other men than I've ever come close to. But, I have no problem being called a Buzz fanboy - Buzz is the sh$t..and I continue to enjoy and look forward to watching where this program goes with him at the helm.
Quote from: 1001 N. 4th St. on November 18, 2010, 09:33:32 AM
Not to mention thats the brazillionth time Ners has used that line... Sooo predictable. Why don't you stop trying to be clever Ners and read the post. If you don't know why Jones isn't playing, then save your knee slappers for another thread
I read your post...and I think others have answered your question - it is early in the season, Buzz is trying to see what combos work together while he can..he's got to figure it out fast..next week..we all know who we face..Wisconsin shortly thereafter. Jones is the victim of being behind a ton of talented guys..and at this point he's the odd man out. No team can play a 12-man rotation. He's very talented..but it speaks to just how talented this MU team is - more talented than any I can remember.
Sorry the joke offended you - and actually I can't take credit for that joke..saw another poster here, post that..and thought it was funny...just think whenever we get too armchair quarterback in our analysis..it can be kind of funny. We all do it..me included.
Quote from: 1001 N. 4th St. on November 18, 2010, 08:05:11 AM
I'm not really a fan of subbing people in and out of the game. I think if someone has found their rhythm (which may take more than 2 or 3 trips down the court) they should stay in. If somethings working, leave it be. Its kind of like Navy running the option against Notre Dame... run the same play until it doesn't work anymore ;) Buzz obviously has a different game plan than me and if its working, thats fine, too.
What I really don't understand though is why, amongst all of the substitutions, hasn't Jamail Jones seen any valuable playing time. It seemed like during his recruiting process, he was much more hyped up than Gardner or Smith. Yet he's only seen 11 total minutes! Is he in the doghouse or is he just playing God-awful in practice?
I think there are a few reasons that Mellow isn't seeing that much game action.
1) Depth at his position. Jones is a wing player, along with most of our roster. Even though Mellow was a higher rated recruit, Reggie and Davante are at more specialized positions (PG and PF/C) where we don't have the depth, so it is easier to break into the rotation.
2) Defense. I think that he is behind other players especially on this side of the ball. With Buzz's emphasis on defense, this is probably holding him back.
3) Some players take longer to adjust to the D1 level. He was a good HS player on a very good HS team, but there's still a big difference between HS and D1.
I don't think we have reason to think he's doing "god-awful," or even doing anything wrong necessarily. Let's hope he is doing well. I feel that could easily be the case. With some time and experience, I can see him being a strong contributor.
Quote from: Ners on November 18, 2010, 09:17:38 AM
think whenever we get too armchair quarterback in our analysis..it can be kind of funny.
What exactly do you think is the point of this board? Responding with 'you're not the coach thus your opinion doesn't matter' doesn't improve the board in any way.
Quote from: w0bbie on November 18, 2010, 09:54:46 AM
I think there are a few reasons that Mellow isn't seeing that much game action.
1) Depth at his position. Jones is a wing player, along with most of our roster. Even though Mellow was a higher rated recruit, Reggie and Davante are at more specialized positions (PG and P
The answer to the problem may be found in his nickname.F/C) where we don't have the depth, so it is easier to break into the rotation.
2) Defense. I think that he is behind other players especially on this side of the ball. With Buzz's emphasis on defense, this is probably holding him back.
3) Some players take longer to adjust to the D1 level. He was a good HS player on a very good HS team, but there's still a big difference between HS and D1.
I don't think we have reason to think he's doing "god-awful," or even doing anything wrong necessarily. Let's hope he is doing well. I feel that could easily be the case. With some time and experience, I can see him being a strong contributor.
I see Mellow having a bit of an EWill experience this year, but he seems more with-it than Erik was last season.
Quote from: muarmy81 on November 18, 2010, 05:42:53 AM
Many times he does this for situational team needs.
I concur this is largely situational and experimental at times. Buzz is really paying attention to the opportunities he has to teach. Look at the full court play to end the 1st half. I was impressed by Buzz exploiting the opportunity. He'll exploit lineups in he same educational manner when opportunities are afforded him.
Quote from: LLRj Since 1986 on November 18, 2010, 10:51:31 AM
I see Mellow having a bit of an EWill experience this year, but he seems more with-it than Erik was last season.
+1.
He's got good players in front of him, but he'll get his chances. A few chances this year, and a chance to compete for more minutes next year with Wilson(s).
Quote from: RawdogDX on November 18, 2010, 09:57:41 AM
What exactly do you think is the point of this board? Responding with 'you're not the coach thus your opinion doesn't matter' doesn't improve the board in any way.
Good point..but as I stated..it was a joke. I agree that a message board is for fans to armchair and opine - and we all armchair ...but there are times when the "overreaction" is funny and can be poked fun at.
I think in most cases Buzz has already made the decision to put a sub in. The decision does not change, if the player all of a sudden scores.
With the perimeter pressure Buzz wants to play, he needs fresh bodies. 3 minutes of hell at a time.
Note to the readers: your opinion only counts if you've played at least high school basketball. Since high school hoops is serious business.
Just some general observations:
If you look at Jones play while he was a senior, he was a relatively soft perimeter player. I'd guess that, like EWill, it will take some time to achieve the tenacity that Buzz expects. Until that time, he'll probably play very limited minutes, particularly in a year we have such depth at his positions.
Perhaps Buzz feels the substitution of a player after a score is less likely to have them worrying about every play than if he subbed whenevr they missed a shot. But then again, this is spring training with a team that has numerous new faces. The sub pattern will be much more predictable by the time BE play begins.
No question that Gardner has some severe offensive skills if he has the right matchups. I could see him being brought in when the opposing center is on the bench or late in the halves when his matchup may be somewhat winded. He's also a guy that will draw fouls. Other big guy has two fouls in the 1st half or 3 or 4 in the 2nd half. Send in Gardner to draw the back breaker. I don't see Gardner starting, particularly with his limitations on the high screens.
Some players and coaches prefer reliable substitution patterns, especially early in games, no matter how the player is performing on the court. Really, unless you are correcting a mis-match of some sort, you really don't stay with "hot hands" until the last 8-10 minutes or so. It's more important to get people rest and see what you have going on your bench
Quote from: DaCoach on November 18, 2010, 02:52:51 PM
Just some general observations:
If you look at Jones play while he was a senior, he was a relatively soft perimeter player. I'd guess that, like EWill, it will take some time to achieve the tenacity that Buzz expects. Until that time, he'll probably play very limited minutes, particularly in a year we have such depth at his positions.
Does Buzz's desire to recruit switchable players result in him recruiting soft players. 6'6" guys that want to shoot from the outside might be a product of them not wanting to bang on the inside. Jones, Williams and Wilson fit this catagory.
Quote from: Ners on November 18, 2010, 11:54:31 AM
Good point..but as I stated..it was a joke. I agree that a message board is for fans to armchair and opine - and we all armchair ...but there are times when the "overreaction" is funny and can be poked fun at.
Ners, I find myself agreeing with you most of the time, but today I don't feel like there was any overreaction to 'the joke.' It was pretty unnecessary. Oh, and I disagree with your views on wrestling... By far the toughest five years of my life were spent on a mat.
Quote from: 1001 N. 4th St. on November 18, 2010, 04:52:49 PM
Ners, I find myself agreeing with you most of the time, but today I don't feel like there was any overreaction to 'the joke.' It was pretty unnecessary. Oh, and I disagree with your views on wrestling... By far the toughest five years of my life were spent on a mat.
Fair enough...like I said - I'm sorry that I chose your post to make a joke at...the content of your post wasn't bad, or anything...and as for the wrestling remark...I don't disrespect the sport by any means....but Hards Alumni is also a wrestler and he and squared off on a basketball debate some time ago...and I gave him hell for being a wrestler trying to talk hoops. Nonetheless..he wanted to jab me with the "how much do I charge Buzz for a bj now," quote..so I gave him a joke back about being a wrestler..which like it or not..does involve a fair amount of time with cack in your face as you tumble around the mat. A little smack talk is okay with me..and I'm not mad at Hards for calling me a Buzz fanboy and implying that I suck his cack...just part of this whole message board scene at times.